Slaughter on the Cap

[Angus]

I dunno if this has been posted already on HBC, but a pretty disturbing video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iuseR1aYsDc#t=0s

[huntcoop]

If I type what I am thinking I will get banned. Kinda makes a guy wanna vomit.

[Gunner]

Stewards of the land,they've been stealing shopping carts from Park Royal and doing this since the 70s when I lived on the North Shore. Gunner

[Tenacious Billy]

It's part of their heritage....not sure what all the fuss is about?....:roll:

[The Dude]

Yes, they don't get enough money from all the hugely profitable leases of North Van waterfront, shipping terminals, advertising rights, etc, so they have to steal shopping carts to catch fish to survive.
I love it when they do this. Think of the bad publicity.

[bassplayer]

Strippers of the land. This is pathetic. Oops, i'm being racist.

[Mr. Dean]

This shouldn't be a personal issue; It's Political.


So other than inciting hate, what has everyone here done about it?
Take up a stand, get educated on the matter, and hammer down the door of your MLA.

And be relentless about it.

[ruger#1]

That was cool. Those guys sure know how to catch fish.

[The Dude]

That was cool. Those guys sure know how to catch fish.

You're a dick. I just LOL'd. :D

Oh, and I love that one kids "Foot to the head" quick dispatch method. Very classy.

[longwalk]

This shouldn't be a personal issue; It's Political.


So other than inciting hate, what has everyone here done about it?
Take up a stand, get educated on the matter, and hammer down the door of your MLA.

And be relentless about it.
.......And do not buy $10.00 Coho from the side of the road either.

[ruger#1]

Come on Dude , You could learn a lot from those guys.

[Mr. Dean]

.......And do not buy $10.00 Coho from the side of the road either.


That should be a given, but well said.

[Singleshotneeded]

pathetic...hope it gets good exposure though! :-)

[swamper]

Is it my imagination or did anyone else think that maybe a couple of the guys in that video looked very none indian. Fairly disgusting display of their so called "heritage".

[Angus]

pathetic...hope it gets good exposure though! :-)

It should. I grabbed the link from Sport Fishing BC web site, and I believe it has been forwarded on to the media.

[lip_ripper00]

I am sure some of the eldres are going WTF are you doing! Going to make some bad press for one of the weathiest tribes in Canada!!!

[The Dude]

Come on Dude , You could learn a lot from those guys.

I just go to the spawning channel at the hatchery at night, with a dip net and cattle prod. Wayyyyy easier. These guys are doing it the hard way.
Your tax dollars at work!

[b.c hunter 88]

thats how they are around hear
i remember this one guy bragging he poached 94 deer one year and 155 the next but they don't get why theres less and less deer each year.
i hear texada got opened to them this year hope it ain't true.
last year was a record year for there fish this year it was closed due to how few there wear.but they blame us white boys for it whats wrong with people these days. native and all the BS thats given to them piss me off.

[Big Bucks]

Those guys are idiots !!!

[red dragon]

they should be made hunt we bow's and spears!!!!

[DEXTER]

I hope this makes the news! What a joke!

[The Dude]

IBTL. Hah!

[saddlemaker]

fish traps were very tradidional... still i don't think this is
right

[pnbrock]

Fing savage!!!!

[gutpile]

Using white man's nets.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Wow!! That made all the flossing that goes on look sporting!

While fish traps are traditional I don't think the "head stomps" show a lot of respect to the fish.

[pnbrock]

Do they not allready get the fish that has been stripped at the hatchery?why not wait for the cleaned fish from there?

[Angus]

This shouldn't be a personal issue; It's Political.


So other than inciting hate, what has everyone here done about it?
Take up a stand, get educated on the matter, and hammer down the door of your MLA.

And be relentless about it.

Mr. Dean, do you have any contact info for DFO / Fisheries Minister?? I'd like to fire off a couple of letters.

[Onesock]

And these are the guys that are one day going to be looking after all of the fish and game in BC? And the FN blockade in region 5 is because the natives are looking after the moose..................bullshit. This moose closure is all money driven. Pathetic!

[greenhorn]

Ummm yeah, IBTL

[LeadSender]

Makes me sick to my stomach watching that video and they complain there ain't enough fish coming back wonder why had some guys trying to sell me some earlier in the year no thanks .

[Sasquatch]

While this is distasteful from a sportfishing point of view - it really isn't news. They've been doing this on the Cap for many years. I'm pretty sure they get all the excess from the hatchery, so they would end up with all these fish anyway.

The real crime that has taken place on that river, was the dam...it destroyed what was supposed to be an amazing run of steelhead. I sure would have liked to have the opportunity to fish it before it was ruined forever.

[ravensfoot]

"This is going on F'ing uTube" - wow dude, you posted it because you were proud of your "Massacre"? I'm really glad you taped this for all to see how ridiculous it looks when the "Stewards of the Nation" take care of this fragile resource. Way to go!! I hope this makes the news and finally something will get done about it.

[Angus]

I took Mr. Dean's advice and fired an email off to Keith Ashfield Minister for Fisheries and Oceans. I sent the following:

The Honourable Keith Ashfield,
Minister for Fisheries and Oceans

Dear Minister,

I am not one that would typically contact a member of parliament to try and correct a situation that I view as a "wrong", however this is one of those times when we as Canadian citizens must reach out to the Federal government and demand that action be taken on behalf of all Canadians.

Recently I viewed a video of a slaughter of mature coho salmon as they made their way up the Capliano River in West Vancouver, BC. Please refer to the video link below for an accounting of the slaughter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iuseR1aYsDc#t=0s

Just watching it made me quite angry to see such actions. However, I do understand that the Squamish First Nation likely has some sort of ancestral claim for trapping and netting salmon in the river. But the thing that really irritates me and many others who have also viewed the video of their actions is the indiscriminate killing of all the coho salmon caught. This included both hatchery and wild coho salmon.

On the coast and rivers of British Columbia I do not know of any fishing area where wild coho salmon can be retained. All are catch and release, and even quite recently your Ministry issued a notice of both a bait ban and request for use of angling methods that would minimize by-catch of coho salmon on the Fraser River. We, as law abiding citizens, recreational anglers, and conservationists have respected the law and request from DFO to assist with the recovery of wild coho salmon stocks, yet we are forced to sit back with gritted teeth and watch this type of activity by BC First Nations.

How can you expect us to watch this and not be concerned for the future of the wild coho stocks, and also feel as second class citizens in our own country where opportunities to harvest wild coho salmon are awarded to others based purely on race?

I trust that you, and your Ministry, will feel as disgusted as I was while watching this video, and that DFO will take appropriate actions to prevent this type of activity in the future.

Sincerely,

Txxxx Dxxxx
Burnaby, BC

Keith Ashfield's email address is keith.ashfield@parl.gc.ca

[Steeleco]

.......And do not buy $10.00 Coho from the side of the road either.

The first MORON from any walk of life that buys one of these fish needs dispatching the same way these guys are doing to the fish.

This needs to be made big, main stream media would have a hay day!!

[Jagermeister]

Is it my imagination or did anyone else think that maybe a couple of the guys in that video looked very none indian. Fairly disgusting display of their so called "heritage".
I was told a few weeks ago that a person can be "watered" down to 1:32 ratio, that is one part aboriginal to 32 white parts or other and still obtain a status card.
And you all know that the video is depicting how indians are exercising their right to fish for food, social and cultural traditions, even though it is highly un-likely that any of those fish will be consumed by an indian.

[Steeleco]

Spectacular letter Angus, I'll be doing one up tonight when I get home from work. Enough is enough!!

[Jagermeister]

I wonder (tongue in cheek) if Global News will air this footage?

[The Dawg]

I wonder (tongue in cheek) if Global News will air this footage?

Post it on the Global FB page...see what happens

[The Dawg]

Screw it. I just sent it to Global and informed them we would like to see coverage on this event.

So sick of the double standard.

Now we sit back and watch to see if it hits the News.

If not, can we set up a roadblock and protest?

[Marlin375]

I might feel differnt about it if they looked like they needed the fish.......who tromps around in a river in $250 hightops

[huntcoop]

I just sent it to Chek 6 here in Victoria, we'll see if anything happens.

[The Dawg]

I might feel differnt about it if they looked like they needed the fish.......who tromps around in a river in $250 hightops


No way! Traditional Hunting High tops!

[Deeboe]

The first MORON from any walk of life that buys one of these fish needs dispatching the same way these guys are doing to the fish.

This needs to be made big, main stream media would have a hay day!!
Couldnt agree with u more Steelco. Been saying that for years...

[proguide66]

I might get slaughtered for saying this BUT , looks like a fraction of the 'carnage' I have seen from purse seiners in the Alberni inlet from 'whiteys'( or anywhere else)....deffinitely looks like a hoot ( if its legal)....I dont see a 'for sale' sign on the video....but we sure are quick to pull the trigger on 'judging' without all the facts. A s far foot wear goes , are they upposed to look like they are on welfare to make it acceptable? .:neutral:

[weatherby_man]

Main stream media would turn this into a feel good story about the Natives pursuing their rights to fish for personal and ceremonial purposes. Although DFO have no political will to take action against this, some of them will have seen it now (I ensured that). To be honest DFO nor MOE will never touch the subject or improve enforcement, the only chance rec anglers have is to try and get them to do as much enhancement as possible and hope for some crumbs falling off the table. So sad, but true.

[Mr. Dean]

I took Mr. Dean's advice and fired an email off to Keith Ashfield Minister for Fisheries and Oceans. I sent the following:

The Honourable Keith Ashfield,
Minister for Fisheries and Oceans

Dear Minister,

I am not one that would typically contact a member of parliament to try and correct a situation that I view as a "wrong", however this is one of those times when we as Canadian citizens must reach out to the Federal government and demand that action be taken on behalf of all Canadians.

Recently I viewed a video of a slaughter of mature coho salmon as they made their way up the Capliano River in West Vancouver, BC. Please refer to the video link below for an accounting of the slaughter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iuseR1aYsDc#t=0s

Just watching it made me quite angry to see such actions. However, I do understand that the Squamish First Nation likely has some sort of ancestral claim for trapping and netting salmon in the river. But the thing that really irritates me and many others who have also viewed the video of their actions is the indiscriminate killing of all the coho salmon caught. This included both hatchery and wild coho salmon.

On the coast and rivers of British Columbia I do not know of any fishing area where wild coho salmon can be retained. All are catch and release, and even quite recently your Ministry issued a notice of both a bait ban and request for use of angling methods that would minimize by-catch of coho salmon on the Fraser River. We, as law abiding citizens, recreational anglers, and conservationists have respected the law and request from DFO to assist with the recovery of wild coho salmon stocks, yet we are forced to sit back with gritted teeth and watch this type of activity by BC First Nations.

How can you expect us to watch this and not be concerned for the future of the wild coho stocks, and also feel as second class citizens in our own country where opportunities to harvest wild coho salmon are awarded to others based purely on race?

I trust that you, and your Ministry, will feel as disgusted as I was while watching this video, and that DFO will take appropriate actions to prevent this type of activity in the future.

Sincerely,

Terry Duffy
Burnaby, BC

Keith Ashfield's email address is keith.ashfield@parl.gc.ca

Absolutely WONDERFUL!!!

I applaude you, Sir.
Bravo...


Now all it needs is 10,ooo more just like it.

[whitetail2009]

Just put the link on face book. comments are starting already........

[J-Man]

A s far foot wear goes , are they upposed to look like they are on welfare to make it acceptable? .:neutral:

Everyone knows the band is well off, I just don't see why they can't practice some conservation and take the time to sort the wild vs hatchery. And let the wild ones continue up stream. Some bands have the means to practice more conservation and set examples for others. Other bands really depend on the fish.

[springpin]

What a bunch of ****ing ******s...I hope the guy who stomped on the fishes head wrecks the shoes we bought him.

[nerka992003]

Wheres the respect to the fish that they claim to hold in high regards? And so much for tradition I didn't see one net made from a cedar tree. Just an observation.

[skibum]

Sorry I am not from the coast, but the issue is:

1) Wild Coho - not discriminating between wild and stocked
2) Coho runs on this river are endangered
3) This was not in the bands allocation of fish and the sport fishery has been shut down (not saying that I favour raced based allocation of fish)
4) Looking like it is a bunch of morons in the way this went down

[scoutlt1]

Absolutely disgusting! Makes me sick to my stomach.

Link sent to SunNews Network as well....they seem to be the only "major" network out there with and backbone.

Stewards of the Land.....my ass...

[afflicted 1]

And people wonder where the moose poulation has gone.. this should give some indication.. now just picture some moose all hangin out on their winter range instead of fish in the cap, as for wondering what the elders would think of this? what are they supposed to do spank them

[afflicted 1]

this would have been a real good olympic comercial . our gov could have sponsered

[scoutlt1]

Oh and also, a respectful e-mail sent to the chief and elders council...with link attached in case they weren't aware.

[buck nash]

Sorry guys if it's not ilegal I can't see what the issue is.

What did they get, maybe a couple hundred fish tops. Big deal that's nothing compared to a single fihing boat with nets and there's a lot of guys to share all those fish. Probably works out to 3-4 fish each.

As for how they're killed, again who cares. They're all being quickly dispatched as soon as they get them to shore. Isn't that what they're supposed to do.

Setting up fish weirs is a traditional method, shopping carts aside. Those shopping carts may well have been their before the fn arrived. I know I've seen many a shopping cart and bicycle in the rivers around town.

I don't see a lot of scoped, stainles steel, synthetic stocked guns in any of the old pictures of our pioneer ancestors, let alone gps, range finder, camo, etc. yet I hear the argument that hunting should be allowed because it's our canadian tradition. So why is it people expect indians to use cedar nets and spears? Should white hunters be resticted to hunting from canoes with muskets?

Just sayin' feel free to flame away.

Oh and in before the lock

[J-Man]

Sorry guys if it's not ilegal I can't see what the issue is.


Its a political issue of conservation, since there is a ban on keeping wild coho. Why does that not apply to FNs? They setup their fish trap, sort and let the wild coho back into the stream. Its the two tier system that people are fed up with. Catch and keep what you need to survive, but stick to the same laws as everyone else in the province.

[Buck TraX]

Sorry guys if it's not ilegal I can't see what the issue is.

What did they get, maybe a couple hundred fish tops. Big deal that's nothing compared to a single fihing boat with nets and there's a lot of guys to share all those fish. Probably works out to 3-4 fish each.

As for how they're killed, again who cares. They're all being quickly dispatched as soon as they get them to shore. Isn't that what they're supposed to do.

Setting up fish weirs is a traditional method, shopping carts aside. Those shopping carts may well have been their before the fn arrived. I know I've seen many a shopping cart and bicycle in the rivers around town.

I don't see a lot of scoped, stainles steel, synthetic stocked guns in any of the old pictures of our pioneer ancestors, let alone gps, range finder, camo, etc. yet I hear the argument that hunting should be allowed because it's our canadian tradition. So why is it people expect indians to use cedar nets and spears? Should white hunters be resticted to hunting from canoes with muskets?

Just sayin' feel free to flame away.

Oh and in before the lock

Just so you are aware they do this every day throughout the season twice a day on the outgoing tides

[BuckEye]

Looking forward to seeing any responses the letter writers receive from federal govt levels. I may be running low on TP and will warm up the printer for what they will likely be worth.

[greenhorn]

Sorry guys if it's not ilegal I can't see what the issue is.

I don't see a lot of scoped, stainles steel, synthetic stocked guns in any of the old pictures of our pioneer ancestors, let alone gps, range finder, camo, etc. yet I hear the argument that hunting should be allowed because it's our canadian tradition. So why is it people expect indians to use cedar nets and spears? Should white hunters be resticted to hunting from canoes with muskets?

Just sayin' feel free to flame away.

Oh and in before the lock

You're right, our ancestors didn't have all the gear we have. Things were different back then. For example, there was WAY less regulation of hunters and hunting, way less population, bag limits were generous..... Today, we have way more technology, but bag limits are stricter, hunter regulation and training is more strict, we have fair chase rules, harvest levels are usually based on science.... things have changed.

Another thing is that today, the rules are different for different segments of the population and that's why people get cheezed. I don't know what demographic you fit, but I can guarantee if a fish cop caught me and my family doing that, legal or not, they would be so far up my A$$.........

[Paulyman]

Nothing quite like natives practicing their traditional hunting methods in Asics shoes,Under Armour clothing and BC Lions jerseys...

[timnak]

I took Mr. Dean's advice and fired an email off to Keith Ashfield Minister for Fisheries and Oceans. I sent the following:

The Honourable Keith Ashfield,
Minister for Fisheries and Oceans

Dear Minister,

I am not one that would typically contact a member of parliament to try and correct a situation that I view as a "wrong", however this is one of those times when we as Canadian citizens must reach out to the Federal government and demand that action be taken on behalf of all Canadians.

Recently I viewed a video of a slaughter of mature coho salmon as they made their way up the Capliano River in West Vancouver, BC. Please refer to the video link below for an accounting of the slaughter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iuseR1aYsDc#t=0s

Just watching it made me quite angry to see such actions. However, I do understand that the Squamish First Nation likely has some sort of ancestral claim for trapping and netting salmon in the river. But the thing that really irritates me and many others who have also viewed the video of their actions is the indiscriminate killing of all the coho salmon caught. This included both hatchery and wild coho salmon.

On the coast and rivers of British Columbia I do not know of any fishing area where wild coho salmon can be retained. All are catch and release, and even quite recently your Ministry issued a notice of both a bait ban and request for use of angling methods that would minimize by-catch of coho salmon on the Fraser River. We, as law abiding citizens, recreational anglers, and conservationists have respected the law and request from DFO to assist with the recovery of wild coho salmon stocks, yet we are forced to sit back with gritted teeth and watch this type of activity by BC First Nations.

How can you expect us to watch this and not be concerned for the future of the wild coho stocks, and also feel as second class citizens in our own country where opportunities to harvest wild coho salmon are awarded to others based purely on race?

I trust that you, and your Ministry, will feel as disgusted as I was while watching this video, and that DFO will take appropriate actions to prevent this type of activity in the future.

Sincerely,

Txxxx Dxxxx
Burnaby, BC

Keith Ashfield's email address is keith.ashfield@parl.gc.ca

Hello Angus, hope you don't mind but I copied and pasted your letter to an email and signed my name to it with an agreement statement. I thought you were right on. Tim

[buck nash]

Nothing quite like natives practicing their traditional hunting methods in Asics shoes,Under Armour clothing and BC Lions jerseys...


Would you prefer to see them in loin clothes? How is this relevant to conservation.

[SUAFOYT]

Stewards of the land,they've been stealing shopping carts from Park Royal and doing this since the 70s when I lived on the North Shore. Gunner

I can vouch for that as well. It was disgusting then as now.

[Big D]

whats the difference from comercial fishing with a GILL net and people getting fish with a DIP net? not to be racist but i wish you white folks would quit slandering us natives cause if you in our shoes you would certainly do the same thing

[ultramafic]

Another thing is that today, the rules are different for different segments of the population and that's why people get cheezed. I don't know what demographic you fit, but I can guarantee if a fish cop caught me and my family doing that, legal or not, they would be so far up my A$$.........

In my opinion what is written above is exactly the problem... All the different rules for different "segements" does, is to foster resentment and conflict.

One rule for all in a modern world would be nice...

mike

[kyleklassen]

whats wrong????? it is a traditional fishery.......but now with a commercial and recreational fishery on top of it it is frowned upon....was there a commercial and a recreational fishery 300 years ago???.....nope.this would've been the status quo back then..if they would've fished that stream out years ago in a few years they would've had no returns and would be forced to move or starve...but now other people are vyeing for the fish so it is frowned upon....people on here talk how the natives should have to do it traditionally ...well guess what...you just saw it...albeit with added bravado, jersy's sneakers, nylon, plastic and you tube......k.k....former commercial fisherman and current rereational fisherman...non-native..

[Tenacious Billy]

Would you prefer to see them in loin clothes? How is this relevant to conservation.

The times they are a changin.......

[springpin]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/ArtofCIP/340x.gif

[BCLongshot]

That was cool. Those guys sure know how to catch fish.

ha ha ha

Your a blast and I never get tired of your avtar

[SUAFOYT]

This shouldn't be a personal issue; It's Political.


So other than inciting hate, what has everyone here done about it?
Take up a stand, get educated on the matter, and hammer down the door of your MLA.

And be relentless about it.

No point- Federal issue is fisheries. Already lost this one in court.

[ianwuzhere]

looks to me like they are just using a dip style net and the fish appear to be pretty plentiful from what im seeing..
disturbing about the guy bragging about youtube tho..
all the fish were killed promptly that i saw. looks like some good eats for them for sure, wish i was there for a big BBQ..
this is a double edged sword where not everyone will agree, especially with the wild coho all having to be released. it doesnt matter how big or how much money the band that these people belong to have.
-kinda reminds me of the old fort out of babine where they gate off the entire river and just scoop up hundreds of salmon a day for sustenance while counting the number of salmon allowed to go into babine lake.. doesnt seem traditional at all.. yet the salmon runs on the babine system are still the strongest around-every year the numbers there are very stable... maybe we just need more hatcheries?? The fulton river hatchery does very well for everyone!
I tell ya-if i was a kid this would be awesome, lotsa hootin and hollering goin on!

[1980skywalker]

I just read a thread the other day where some people were actually complaining about HBC members coming down too hard on FN, throwing out comments like racism. Do we really have to wonder why the FN are getting such a bad reputation after watching a video like this? Seriously makes me want to vommit, not enough words to describe how despicable, disrespectful, disgraceful, and pathetic this video is!

[Angus]

whats wrong????? it is a traditional fishery.......but now with a commercial and recreational fishery on top of it it is frowned upon....was there a commercial and a recreational fishery 300 years ago???.....nope.this would've been the status quo back then..if they would've fished that stream out years ago in a few years they would've had no returns and would be forced to move or starve...but now other people are vyeing for the fish so it is frowned upon....people on here talk how the natives should have to do it traditionally ...well guess what...you just saw it...albeit with added bravado, jersy's sneakers, nylon, plastic and you tube......k.k....former commercial fisherman and current rereational fisherman...non-native..

Double K, while I enjoy most of your posts, and am a fan of your displays of your decoy carving prowess, I think you've missed my point here. I have no probs with the dip nets and their gifted ancestral rights to fishing the river using shopping carts, what I do have a problem with is that they took everything they got their hands on: both wild and hatchery fish. They're pretty easily to distinguish between.

If we (recreational and commercial) anglers cannot retain wild coho in BC due to DFO imposed concerns regarding the wild stock, how can we accept that another user group is permitted to do this.

Respectfully,
TD

[scoutlt1]

I honestly don't care at this point what other people think.
I see a bunch of punk kids, who don't know or care a f***ing thing about conservation, who have absolutely ZERO respect for a resource, and know that they can do whatever the hell they want without any consequences.
I fished the mouth of the Cap many a time years ago, and saw lots that was similar to this.
Well you know what? I'm not native, but my sons are/will be tought to respect wildlife, appreciate and be thankful for every animal's life they take. They would never treat a fish, a deer, a bear that way...no matter what....I would consider it a failure on my part if they ever did!
How ironic it is, that I so admire the ways of the past. So much so that I crave to live them. And all the while I watch with disgust, the way those that preach those ways, now so obviously driven by greed and power, actually practice them.

[kyleklassen]

Double K, while I enjoy most of your posts, and am a fan of your displays of your decoy carving prowess, I think you've missed my point here. I have no probs with the dip nets and their gifted ancestral rights to fishing the river using shopping carts, what I do have a problem with is that they took everything they got their hands on: both wild and hatchery fish. They're pretty easily to distinguish between.

If we (recreational and commercial) anglers cannot retain wild coho in BC due to DFO imposed concerns regarding the wild stock, how can we accept that another user group is permitted to do this.

Respectfully,
TD...i hear you and agree mostly with your post....the problem i have thou is i am drinking rum and was hoping someone would argue like a son of a bitch with me.

[dmace]

I myself participated in a food fishery this year . With a family of 5 we can go through lots of fish . Our methods included trolling bait and spoons, " dip nets " and each fish was dutifly dispatched in the boat by a swift bludgioning on the head . Some key differences to note would be open water fishing by boat, all anglers possesed all nescessary liscences and tags , boat morage was $ 160 for the month and fuel was aprox. $300 . Not bad for about 200 lbs of salmon ! Don't know what would happen if me and my family attended the "fishery " on the capillano. Hope thier is a couple left for our fishery next year !
D

[Marlin375]

whats the difference from comercial fishing with a GILL net and people getting fish with a DIP net? not to be racist but i wish you white folks would quit slandering us natives cause if you in our shoes you would certainly do the same thing

by the looks of it I don't think I can afford your shoes....:wink:.

[Laurence_Erickson]

I may not agree with what they are doing but last year I stood on the bar at grassy and watched as a boat load of whities (OH AND I AM VERY WHITE MYSELF) stomp the heads of sockeye to kill them .Even boot them all over the bar.It is not the actions of all people ,but some do seem to attract attention to themselves .

Wow!! That made all the flossing that goes on look sporting!

While fish traps are traditional I don't think the "head stomps" show a lot of respect to the fish.

[Paulyman]

How isn't it relevant is a better question, sorry I should have also mentioned the Canadain Tire nets they were using. It really illustrates the stupidity of allowing them to live by a second set of rules when they aren't the same people that they used to be. If they want to go live the way they did before whitey came and ****ed em why don't they give up there trucks,guns,electricity and dvd players. If you're going to use all the ameneties the white man invented then there isn't any point to raping the land for the sake of "maintaining Culture"

In order for Canada to move forward there needs to be some cut and dry rules put in place. If you're going to live like a white man then you play by the white man rules or live like your ancectors did and hunt and fish the same way loin cloths and all.
Would you prefer to see them in loin clothes? How is this relevant to conservation.

[Gateholio]

I usually bonk fish with a club, too.

[Tikka270]

I honestly don't care at this point what other people think.
I see a bunch of punk kids, who don't know or care a f***ing thing about conservation, who have absolutely ZERO respect for a resource, and know that they can do whatever the hell they want without any consequences.
I fished the mouth of the Cap many a time years ago, and saw lots that was similar to this.
Well you know what? I'm not native, but my sons are/will be tought to respect wildlife, appreciate and be thankful for every animal's life they take. They would never treat a fish, a deer, a bear that way...no matter what....I would consider it a failure on my part if they ever did!
How ironic it is, that I so admire the ways of the past. So much so that I crave to live them. And all the while I watch with disgust, the way those that preach those ways, now so obviously driven by greed and power, actually practice them.

Would you rather see these "punks" beating up an elderly lady or stealing her purse?

[buck nash]

Sorry if I offend you paullyman but it's rediculous to expect people to wear traditional clothes while huntig/fishing just as it would be to expect a non-fn to.

The nets used here look pretty much like those used for centuries except they are made from more durarable materials. Those modern material nets don't increase their ability to catch fish.

Concerns about inequity (race based fishery) and conservation of wild stocks is valid but as long as people dwell on nonsence issues such as the type and value of sneakers worn, your valid concerns will go unheard by the public at large who will simply dismiss this as racism or sour grapes.

[Paulyman]

Na, I'm not easily offended and I repect your difference of opinion. I also think you'd make a good Lawyer, lawyers have a knack of distracting from the real issue and making the details seem less important to the grand scheme. I don't care what kind of set of rules someone plays by, just not 2 sets of rules please, I think thats called double dipping.

Coho Salmon for sale at your local reserve, get em while their fresh, Caught today by blocking the river with a traditional shopping cart.

Sour grapes Pauly[

QUOTE=buck nash;1204711]Sorry if I offend you paullyman but it's rediculous to expect people to wear traditional clothes while huntig/fishing just as it would be to expect a non-fn to.

The nets used here look pretty much like those used for centuries except they are made from more durarable materials. Those modern material nets don't increase their ability to catch fish.

Concerns about inequity (race based fishery) and conservation of wild stocks is valid but as long as people dwell on nonsence issues such as the type and value of sneakers worn, your valid concerns will go unheard by the public at large who will simply dismiss this as racism or sour grapes.[/QUOTE]

[coach]

Would you rather see these "punks" beating up an elderly lady or stealing her purse?

Looks like people have got you riled up, Tikka270. You generally make intelligent arguments - but this one comes from left field. I think we'd all like to see every member of society treat fish, animals and eachother with respect. Those that break laws should be treated the same in the court system. Hate to say it - but sometimes punks do beat old ladies and steal purses and get away with it because of their heritage.

Since the dam was built - the Capilano river only has a coho run because of the hatchery. With such drastic fluctuations in water levels its highly doubtful there are any wild fish successfully reproducing in the system. Hard to argue against this "fishery" as a conservation comcern.

Due to the short distance from salt water to the hatchery - fish arrive in great shape. Not sure why the good ones can't be sorted out at in the hatchery tanks or at the outflow. Plenty of fish for the band and better control on number of spawners. It would be nice to see a progressive program in place that could be used as a model on other hatchery systems in the province. Instead we have what was seen in the video.

At the very least - the guys could build their own weirs. A wealthy band stealing shopping carts and putting them in the river is pretty pathetic. Looks to me like a group of people who have no care in the world for the river, the fish or public perception of what they are doing. Sad really.

[The Dude]

Would you rather see these "punks" beating up an elderly lady or stealing her purse?

And this comment pertains to the issue how?

[Mutt58]

Disgusting!Sometimes I really hate living in BC!
I can't believe the /&$/$& government lets this kind of %#^€£ go on!
especially in a river that is already beat up.Its bad enough in the north here on the Skeena

[Tikka270]

And this comment pertains to the issue how?

Point is that these kids are taking part in a "traditional" fishery. As controversial as it looks to everyone I would rather see these youth doing things like this rather than on the streets doing things that endanger society. I myself am not defending these people, like everyone else on here I don't know the facts about the situation. No one knows, and can say for a fact that they were selling these fish. Who knows! Maybe they did the right thing and distributed the salmon to elders.

If you go on to an Internet forum calling people names no one will take it seriously. If this site wishes to have any sort of impact on the situation it would moderate these types of threads a little more tightly. Allowing racial slurs looks bad on the site and reflects a "redneck" image. Not saying that this site is racist but when mods allow names like "savage" and even "vermin"(used in a different thread) to be used, it only hurts the sites reputation.

[The Dude]

It's about a two-tiered system of rights to the resources, and basic respect for the animals that inhabit the land.
If it had been done in a more controlled fashion, where elders made sure wild fish were released upstream, Coho weren't headstomped like cockroaches, and it hadn't been done by a fairly wealthy tribe, then few folks here would have a problem with it.
I, as well as you, cringe at any racial slurs on here, but this is far from an impoverished group taking advantage of an old law that needs to be revised.
Also, the fact that they sell the fish is well documented. I'd bet you dollars to donuts that if you went into the Lynwood in the next couple of days that you could get a nice fresh Coho for 8-10 bucks. I've been there. Hell, I used to have a neighbour that came home with garbage bags full of Sockeye he bought for $10 a pop. Did not care about where they came from, only that he got a "Great Deal".

It's time for the laws to change, time for all people to get more educated on the resource, and time to get rid of this two-tiered racist system.
As long as one group gets to flip the bird at ALL other groups, and take whatever they want, whenever they want, and flaunt the law, there will be problems.

[limit time]

Would you rather see these "punks" beating up an elderly lady or stealing her purse?

Thats after the fish are gone

[ultramafic]

Mutt58... I would not say that this type of issue is a BC only problem. On top of that the enforcement of this issue should be a federal jurisdictional matter so the province of BC (govt) might not have much say in it. I may be mistaken and it was some time ago but I believe that some of the violence and destruction in the maritimes to do with lobster fishing may have been the result of different sets of rules for for different segments of the population... If that was in fact the case then it appears that nothing was learned from it at that time..

mike

[skibum]

I personally would not want to eat anything stomped on, but if it is their allocation who cares?

The horror the horror of fish dying.

[ultramafic]

Perfect example in this story of the double standard system alive and well in this country...

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Uncle+livid+after+event+bumps+party/7273819/story.html

totally unrelated to fish or fishing or even aboriginals but the end result of the double standard is the same... ticked off folks..

mike

[BigSlapper]

KyleKlassen - don't know you from "Adam".... I'm into the wine ... and ready to argue like a "sumbitch"!
Read your post and laughed so hard I had Pinot coming out of my nose !
And yes .... Hunters are allowed to drink Pinot on Thursdays.

I grew up in Port Alberni in the 70's. The You Tube video pales in comparison to what I viewed daily at Paper Mill Dam during the Coho/Sockeye/Spring runs .... Not that it's right .... Just sayin.
.... and now ... back to the Pinot

[Big Lew]

I might get slaughtered for saying this BUT , looks like a fraction of the 'carnage' I have seen from purse seiners in the Alberni inlet from 'whiteys'( or anywhere else)....deffinitely looks like a hoot ( if its legal)....I dont see a 'for sale' sign on the video....but we sure are quick to pull the trigger on 'judging' without all the facts. A s far foot wear goes , are they upposed to look like they are on welfare to make it acceptable? .:neutral:

Not from me, I agree with you....Actually, what's the big deal really. I suppose catching huge amounts with gill nets or purse seiners is better or more humane? I suppose that because they are natives netting, and then whacking them with a large stick, it is pathetic and cruel, but a sports fisher-person can catch them with hook and line and then whack them with a store-bought "bonker" and everything is alright? It is easy to forget or ignore the fact that indigenous people along the coast were catching fish in similar fashion for centuries without depleting the resource. The European invasion raped the fishery in less than 200 years. My grandfather
was a gill net fisherman on the Fraser most of his life, before the boats used motors. For the first half of his fishing life there weren't many restrictive rules and it was
very common to catch so many fish in a single drift they would have to 'lump' their net by pulling it to shore because the boat couldn't handle the weight. As for those
videoed people using modern equipment, natives had both large nets and dip nets before the Europeans arrived.

[dryflyguy57]

Its called the AFS , Aboriginal Fishing Strategy . Been in the works for years with DFO calling the shots . Does anybody remember the B C Survival Coalition , the only group that supported us at the time were the ranchers of this province who were concerned about their water rights . BCWF , sporties and just about every other group thought we were nuts and racist to boot or just wanted to make a deal with the devil . The news media had a field day at our expense . I find it hard to believe some here are just waking up to the fact that this has been going because it has been happening with the blessing of the AFS for years now . The battle is almost over and I know I am on the losing side . Can't say we didn't tell you so . Divide and conquer boys and girls , works every time . I hope one day we all unite and physically throw DFO out of this province but not holding my breath .

[Moose63]

I might get slaughtered for saying this BUT , looks like a fraction of the 'carnage' I have seen from purse seiners in the Alberni inlet from 'whiteys'( or anywhere else)....deffinitely looks like a hoot ( if its legal)....I dont see a 'for sale' sign on the video....but we sure are quick to pull the trigger on 'judging' without all the facts. A s far foot wear goes , are they upposed to look like they are on welfare to make it acceptable? .:neutral:

Well put Proguide. Whiteman's destruction of the salmon stocks pales in comparison...

[beni]

The STYLE of net they were using is 100% traditional, doesn't matter one god damn bit of difference whether it came from a store or not.
The Blockade kind of thing they did IS a traditional method of fishing (Minus the shopping cart crap which I don't understand why they'd have them)


How many of you hypocrites have bonked a fish over the head? I don't know about you, but I would rather be taken out quickly versus expiring from suffocation. The stomps are a bit too much, but hitting a fish over the head with a club? Sure!


Unfortunately, Coho are not open for fishing any way you slice it. At least here they are not

No idea if their band signed that fishing treaty or whatever it was a while back.... but if they didn't then well, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. Short of completely removing status from us FN (I'm wishing it would happen like...tomorrow)

IMHO, Natives that sell fish are a F'ing Disgrace. The only way it will ever change is if the fish are all gone, and the way commercial fishing is going and certain FN bands are now (Stolo.. ugh) won't be long now boys!

[beni]

KyleKlassen - don't know you from "Adam".... I'm into the wine ... and ready to argue like a "sumbitch"!
Read your post and laughed so hard I had Pinot coming out of my nose !
And yes .... Hunters are allowed to drink Pinot on Thursdays.


What about a Wednesday?

[The Dude]

Beni: No-one, to my knowledge, is aghast at the bonking. It's humane if done correctly (Like the older fellow in the vid). Please quote a post where someone obected to a bonk.
It's the headstomps, laughing all the time, and reckless killing of all the fish they caught. Wild included.
It's why I hate bottom-draggers. They disgust me.

What they could have done, is have an organized catch, with a Fisheries crew there, release the wild ones, humanely bonk the keepers, and have an Elder say something about what it means to the tribe to have a healthy fishery, feed the Elders, Respect, etc etc.
People would have gone "Wow, that's cool they can still do that, right in vancouver!"

Instead it looked like the latest hockey riots with dipnets, and many of the fish will be sold in bars. PR nightmare. Dumb dumb dumb.

And, yes, Natives that sell fish ARE a ****ing disgrace. If you have a commercial license, native or not, then you can sell. If it's a Native right, then it's for sustenance.

[Mr. Dean]

Nothing on the news about this......

[The Dude]

The news won't touch it with a 10 foot dip net, have no fear of that.

[Viper]

I wonder what PETA and the VHS think about this. Probably won't touch it either but show some hunting shows that are way less disturbing to watch and all hell breaks loose.

[sky-gunner]

Just another example of a group of people taking advantage of a giant loophole left open by a pussified government. I understand traditional rights, fine. But keep it traditional, saying that a aluminum and nylon dip net is basically the same is like saying well, I didn't have a elk tag but I had a mule deer tag, and well there basically the same, so I shot me spome elk. It's ridiculous. You wanna do it for tradition, then weave up some cedar fish traps, or dip nets. Actually use some of your traditional tactics and tools. Truth is you have no more traditions, you have become just anothe greed driven part of scociety. No different from anyone else really, your just given a different set of rules to follow, so of course you take advantage, I don't blame you. But at least try to show a little respect to yourselves and your culture and above all the people at the river watching this go down, who with their tax dollars bought you those fancy shoes. And don't try to make people feel bad for you either by saying you've never walked in our shoes. That's straight up bullshit. I grew up around a lot of natives in Campbell River. Some of the are hard working stand up guys, others choose to be lazy slobs and live of scociety, no different than any othe race around here, some people are winners some people are losers. Just cause the government says so don't me it's true. Your not f****ng special, your just a group of people taking advantage of a special set of antiquated rules.

[redwards92]

Just another example of a group of people taking advantage of a giant loophole left open by a pussified government. I understand traditional rights, fine. But keep it traditional, saying that a aluminum and nylon dip net is basically the same is like saying well, I didn't have a elk tag but I had a mule deer tag, and well there basically the same, so I shot me spome elk. It's ridiculous. You wanna do it for tradition, then weave up some cedar fish traps, or dip nets. Actually use some of your traditional tactics and tools. Truth is you have no more traditions, you have become just anothe greed driven part of scociety. No different from anyone else really, your just given a different set of rules to follow, so of course you take advantage, I don't blame you. But at least try to show a little respect to yourselves and your culture and above all the people at the river watching this go down, who with their tax dollars bought you those fancy shoes. And don't try to make people feel bad for you either by saying you've never walked in our shoes. That's straight up bullshit. I grew up around a lot of natives in Campbell River. Some of the are hard working stand up guys, others choose to be lazy slobs and live of scociety, no different than any othe race around here, some people are winners some people are losers. Just cause the government says so don't me it's true. Your not f****ng special, your just a group of people taking advantage of a special set of antiquated rules.

Truth is tradition was lost when first nation children were taken from their homes and forbidden to practice culture, tradition and language.

Tax payers bought those shoes??? Really ?? Good one!!

[sky-gunner]

There is no denying that the residential schools played a huge part in decimating the language and traditions. And that's a huge injustice. But that's my point, if your doing something for traditional purposes, maybe try to do it tradionaly. But I pretty sure a couple hundred years ago there were no "traditional roadside salmon sales". I'm pretty sure it was for substance and not income. Like I said I know some very upstanding native guys who work there asses off, a few I consider family and am proud to know. Then there are others I know of that take advantage of every single handout they can get. Have zero respect or sympathy for those types, white, native or whatever else. My point is this, we are running out of everything, fish, some types of wildlife, land and all that. And everyone is taking consesions, so why can't we all live of the same rules and all work towards preservation. Not indiscriminately killing every fish you catch, in the guise that it's for food and tradionaly sustenance. Tradionaly you didn't sell your fish and go buy groceries, or fancy shoes or whatever. That's what pisses me off, and it's videos like that that give natives a bad name. How do you think the average person watching a display like that is going to react?

And when I speak of traditions, I'm referring to the issue at hand, tradional fishing rights.

[Whonnock Boy]

I find it rather amusing/disturbing that the same old "you stole our children", "took our heritage away" montra is repeated relentlessly in these instances. Yes, it happened. Truly sad but, for the most part it was done to those no longer here, by those no longer here. Add to this the fact that if european settlers had never set foot on north American soil, battles, slaughters, injustices would have been the norm but, the perpetrators would have been the aboriginals themselves. I truly wonder what native societies would still be in existence if colonization had never happened.

On that note, at least this fishery is as close to traditional as your going to get.

[redwards92]

I find it rather amusing/disturbing that the same old "you stole our children", "took our heritage away" montra is repeated relentlessly in these instances. Yes, it happened. Truly sad but, for the most part it was done to those no longer here, by those no longer here. Add to this the fact that if european settlers had never set foot on north American soil, battles, slaughters, injustices would have been the norm but, the perpetrators would have been the aboriginals themselves. I truly wonder what native societies would still be in existence if colonization had never happened.

On that note, at least this fishery is as close to traditional as your going to get.

Ummm. . . no.

[anglo-saxon]

I wonder what would happen if a bunch of white guys did that (quite apart from being arrested for breaking a whole bunch of wildlife laws, that is). I'm guessing it would be all over the national news with the news-politicos pretending to be oh-so-horrified. It's not the scene of wanton distruction that disgusts me, nor the evident mindless relish of the fools engaging in it. It's that my ladder is no longer able to get me high enough to see over the bullshit!

[Paulyman]

It might not happen while were alive, but the gravy train will come to an end eventually. Enjoy it while you can boys.

[beni]

Beni: No-one, to my knowledge, is aghast at the bonking. It's humane if done correctly (Like the older fellow in the vid). Please quote a post where someone obected to a bonk.
It's the headstomps, laughing all the time, and reckless killing of all the fish they caught. Wild included.
It's why I hate bottom-draggers. They disgust me.

What they could have done, is have an organized catch, with a Fisheries crew there, release the wild ones, humanely bonk the keepers, and have an Elder say something about what it means to the tribe to have a healthy fishery, feed the Elders, Respect, etc etc.
People would have gone "Wow, that's cool they can still do that, right in vancouver!"

Instead it looked like the latest hockey riots with dipnets, and many of the fish will be sold in bars. PR nightmare. Dumb dumb dumb.

And, yes, Natives that sell fish ARE a ****ing disgrace. If you have a commercial license, native or not, then you can sell. If it's a Native right, then it's for sustenance.

Sorry, Dude. The hypocrite comment I forgot to me too. Was towards some of the. Nastier comments left in that YouTube page.

[beni]

Ummm. . . no.

You are correct with that. Whonnock boy you are DEAD wrong all of my Great aunts/uncles are still very much alive and were all in residential schools. Even every native co worker of mine were in them. You have no idea.

[Whonnock Boy]

You are correct with that. Whonnock boy you are DEAD wrong all of my Great aunts/uncles are still very much alive and were all in residential schools. Even every native co worker of mine were in them. You have no idea.


Ummm. . . no.

Fact Sheet: 2006 Census Aboriginal Demographics

Since 1996, the Aboriginal population has increased by 47% compared to 8% for non-Aboriginals.
Forty-eight percent of Aboriginal people are less than 25 years old (31% for non-Aboriginals). The median age of the Aboriginal population is 27 compared with 40 for non-Aboriginals.




Population
Average Annual Growth Rate


2001-2006
2006-2011
2011-2016
2016-2021
2021-2026


Total Aboriginal
1.8%
1.7%
1.6%
1.4%
1.2%


Canadian Population*
1.0%
0.8%
0.8%
0.7%
0.7%




My statement was based on an educated guess. A quick search found these facts which verified my 'guess'. Based on the growth rates of Canadian Aboriginals in the last 6 years, I stand by my statement. That is why I said "for the most part". My point is, a large percentage of today's aboriginals were not part of that history.

[Sasquatch]

It's funny how we blame the natives for taking some fish - when it wasn't the natives who decimated that river and the wonderful runs of wild fish that lived there in the first place.

We built a damn that destroyed what was probably the nicest river in the lower mainland with great runs of wild fish - and people on this board are offended about a few shopping carts in the river? Look upstream to a wall of concrete that doesn't belong there and be offended about that.

I'd say when it comes to who blocked the river more and who killed more wild fish - it's no contest.

[Spy]

That was cool. Those guys sure know how to catch fish.


It's funny how we blame the natives for taking some fish - when it wasn't the natives who decimated that river and the wonderful runs of wild fish that lived there in the first place.

We built a damn that destroyed what was probably the nicest river in the lower mainland with great runs of wild fish - and people on this board are offended about a few shopping carts in the river? Look upstream to a wall of concrete that doesn't belong there and be offended about that.

I'd say when it comes to who blocked the river more and who killed more wild fish - it's no contest.
To true ! Our kids should be in there with those kids ! Having fun together & if there were a million fish to go around that would be the case ! Sad ehhh !What could have been ehh !

[rides bike to work]

if i could do that i would then i wouldnt have to stand beside all those other guys on the vedder to get my hoes since sockey was closed springs on the fraser sucked and i dont have the cash to go to the island to catch a couple that would cost me over 500 bucks.im jealous

[The Dude]

Sorry, Dude. The hypocrite comment I forgot to me too. Was towards some of the. Nastier comments left in that YouTube page.

No worries, mate. :-)

[Deadeye]

"...we blame the natives for taking some fish - when it wasn't the natives who decimated that river..."
And similar comments over the last 12 pages...

So it sounds like the argument is : "we're not as bad as the other guys" ?
Is this federal politics now ?

[Drillbit]

I bet that's nothing compared to 'back in the day' before WalMart came around to get you through the winter.

If they don't fill a dumptruck for the reserve, they fail. Been that way for awhile.

Nothing new or disturbing to me.

[redwards92]

WhonnockBoy [I tried to quote that post but it wouldn't work]
My original point was tradition/language is lost and confusing for today's aboriginals which is what some people seem not to understand when they make ridiculous posts regarding traditions and culture and First Nations.

Also it's not like the aboriginal population was huge or anything so it is not surprising to see such growth in population [the numbers should not be compared to non aboriginals as the numbers involved on each side are different].

I can't see how you expect anyone to get your point when your original statement was "it was done to those no longer here, by those no longer here" while also spewing some nonsense about it being amusing/disturbing and a what if regarding something ridiculous and not really worth mentioning ?

Also regarding that statement about the large part of the population not being apart of that history. . . So ? What has that got to do with anything?
Again the original point was that these schools prevented traditions and language from being passed on which has now made it difficult and confusing for the more recent generations of the growing aboriginal communities to retain these traditions and language.

These residential schools created a lot more problems for the aboriginal people(including the generations after the schools closed) that most of you realize/ can see [not just loss of tradition/culture].

[steel_ram]

Again the original point was that these schools prevented traditions and language from being passed on which has now made it difficult and confusing for the more recent generations of the growing aboriginal communities to retain these traditions and language.

These residential schools created a lot more problems for the aboriginal people(including the generations after the schools closed) that most of you realize/ can see [not just loss of tradition/culture].

What I don't understand is what were the settlers of the day supposed to do. Sorry if I sound disrespectful, but these people were two thousand years behind the rest of the world, no written word, no printing press, not even the wheel. There was smooth way to bring them up to speed.

Europeans or somebody else were eventually comming regardless, with all their good and bad. It's the way it is, and has been all over the planet. Nobodies leaving. No body owes anyone anything. Canada is one people, one nation. Canada is now!

[steelballs]

Thats one to be proud of if your native not much sport in that imagine if everyone that can fis could do that soon no salmon left. And they cry about that and half will be sold on the market

[Whonnock Boy]

[QUOTE]WhonnockBoy [I tried to quote that post but it wouldn't work]
My original point was tradition/language is lost and confusing for today's aboriginals which is what some people seem not to understand when they make ridiculous posts regarding traditions and culture and First Nations.


Fair enough.



Also it's not like the aboriginal population was huge or anything so it is not surprising to see such growth in population [the numbers should not be compared to non aboriginals as the numbers involved on each side are different].


I was just trying to show how the population of aboriginals has grown exponentially in the last 2 decades. With the age class being quite young, there are many aboriginals that were never subjected to the residential schools and all that went with that.



I can't see how you expect anyone to get your point when your original statement was "it was done to those no longer here, by those no longer here" while also spewing some nonsense about it being amusing/disturbing and a what if regarding something ridiculous and not really worth mentioning ?


You forgot a very essential part of my quote, "For the most part". This gets back to the statistics that I quoted in regards to the age demographics of the First Nations people in Canada. YOU were not subjected to residential schools. YOU were not stolen from your parents. YOU were not abused by the teachers of the residential schools. I did not force you into residential schools. I did not steel you from your parents. I did not abuse you in those schools. Unfortunately YOU, and many others have been raised by people who were, and taught the animosity and hatred that is associated with it. I, and many others are paying for those who did.

Not...... really...... worth..... mentioning......? Quoting steel_ram, "Europeans or somebody else were eventually comming regardless". That somebody might very well have been other native societies. It is just something to ponder. Imagine.... your ancestors wiped out by the Sioux, or your territory taken by the Crow.


Also regarding that statement about the large part of the population not being apart of that history. . . So ? What has that got to do with anything?


It is in the past. You or I cannot change that. Lets look towards a future where all are considered equal. Yet, you and many others just like you cannot let go of it. You need retribution. You need payments. You are like a parrot, repeating it over, and over, and over. I am the one paying. I am the one hearing it over, and over, and over. I had nothing to do with it.


Again the original point was that these schools prevented traditions and language from being passed on which has now made it difficult and confusing for the more recent generations of the growing aboriginal communities to retain these traditions and language.

These residential schools created a lot more problems for the aboriginal people(including the generations after the schools closed) that most of you realize/ can see [not just loss of tradition/culture].


Your points are valid to say the least. It is truly unfortunate.

Other than that, I really think we are on the same page. :)

[redwards92]

What I don't understand is what were the settlers of the day supposed to do. Sorry if I sound disrespectful, but these people were two thousand years behind the rest of the world, no written word, no printing press, not even the wheel. There was smooth way to bring them up to speed.

Europeans or somebody else were eventually comming regardless, with all their good and bad. It's the way it is, and has been all over the planet. Nobodies leaving. No body owes anyone anything. Canada is one people, one nation. Canada is now!

I don't understand what your point is ?
I could see the reasoning behind trying to catch up the aboriginal people to modern times but that's not at all what it was. You could base a horror movie with 100 sequels on these schools.

[redwards92]

I just can't figure the quote thing right now for some reason [lol] out but heres my take on your last post whonnock_boy.

Yup you are correct in saying that there are a lot of aboriginals who did not attend these schools and that the hatred was passed on to them. Whose fault is that though? Aboriginals pay taxes as well unless on reserve in case you didn't know.

Okay so that what if was directed at steelram and not me, now i see your point.

You tell me that I am like a parrot? That i need handouts?
I only remind people who want to bring up tradition and culture regarding first nations that these residential schools are the reason that there isn't any tradition or culture and that's the end of it. I could care less how much of your taxes are going to aboriginal communities , you can take that up with your government. I don't need anything from you or the government because I do just fine for myself and family.

It is unfortunate to see how some aboriginal people and communities have grown to have such disregard/disrespect for wildlife and conservation.

[2tins]

If I type what I am thinking I will get banned. Kinda makes a guy wanna vomit.

x2. Stewards of the environment my a--

[b.c hunter 88]

email sent thid $!%@ needs to stop there goes our future wild life

I took Mr. Dean's advice and fired an email off to Keith Ashfield Minister for Fisheries and Oceans. I sent the following:

The Honourable Keith Ashfield,
Minister for Fisheries and Oceans

Dear Minister,

I am not one that would typically contact a member of parliament to try and correct a situation that I view as a "wrong", however this is one of those times when we as Canadian citizens must reach out to the Federal government and demand that action be taken on behalf of all Canadians.

Recently I viewed a video of a slaughter of mature coho salmon as they made their way up the Capliano River in West Vancouver, BC. Please refer to the video link below for an accounting of the slaughter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iuseR1aYsDc#t=0s

Just watching it made me quite angry to see such actions. However, I do understand that the Squamish First Nation likely has some sort of ancestral claim for trapping and netting salmon in the river. But the thing that really irritates me and many others who have also viewed the video of their actions is the indiscriminate killing of all the coho salmon caught. This included both hatchery and wild coho salmon.

On the coast and rivers of British Columbia I do not know of any fishing area where wild coho salmon can be retained. All are catch and release, and even quite recently your Ministry issued a notice of both a bait ban and request for use of angling methods that would minimize by-catch of coho salmon on the Fraser River. We, as law abiding citizens, recreational anglers, and conservationists have respected the law and request from DFO to assist with the recovery of wild coho salmon stocks, yet we are forced to sit back with gritted teeth and watch this type of activity by BC First Nations.

How can you expect us to watch this and not be concerned for the future of the wild coho stocks, and also feel as second class citizens in our own country where opportunities to harvest wild coho salmon are awarded to others based purely on race?

I trust that you, and your Ministry, will feel as disgusted as I was while watching this video, and that DFO will take appropriate actions to prevent this type of activity in the future.

Sincerely,

Txxxx Dxxxx
Burnaby, BC

Keith Ashfield's email address is keith.ashfield@parl.gc.ca

[Deadeye]

I copied and sent Angus' email as well.
It says what I want to say and is moderate than how I would say it.

I also CCd it to my MP, John Weston. He is the MP for that riding:
john.weston.c1e@parl.gc.ca