Duck Gun Advice Please

[mklaver]

Hi All - I have been pass shooting ducks and geese for two years now with my 870 12g that I bought new two years ago. I am just back from a Yuma dove hunt (my second hunt down there - awesome experience - dropped WAY more birds this time) and it seemed everybody I was with was shooting Remington 1100's, so now I am eager to upgrade to a semi-auto (12g).

My limit is $700. Should I buy a used 1100, a new Remington 11-87, a CZ-712 (the guy at Wholesale Sports suggested it), or something else?

What is your advice?

As an aside, if there is anybody out there that wouldn't mind helping a novice out and showing him the ropes, I'd be grateful. I am a 44 yr old father and PADI Divemaster, so responsibilty, rules and safety are important to me. Like I say, I have been pass shooting for 2 years and know I have much to learn. Location is White Rock, but willing to drive anywhere.

Thanks in advance......

Michael

[pnbrock]

save your $$$$ and buy an extrema!!

[f350ps]

Yer already shooting one of best guns around, why change? You'll save yourself a lot of money in shells if ya stick to a pump. K

[Foxton Gundogs]

Hi All - I have been pass shooting ducks and geese for two years now with my 870 12g that I bought new two years ago. I am just back from a Yuma dove hunt (my second hunt down there - awesome experience - dropped WAY more birds this time) and it seemed everybody I was with was shooting Remington 1100's, so now I am eager to upgrade to a semi-auto (12g).

My limit is $700. Should I buy a used 1100, a new Remington 11-87, a CZ-712 (the guy at Wholesale Sports suggested it), or something else?

What is your advice?

As an aside, if there is anybody out there that wouldn't mind helping a novice out and showing him the ropes, I'd be grateful. I am a 44 yr old father and PADI Divemaster, so responsibilty, rules and safety are important to me. Like I say, I have been pass shooting for 2 years and know I have much to learn. Location is White Rock, but willing to drive anywhere.

Thanks in advance......

Michael


Were I you I'd go for a new Stoeger 3500. Poor Mans Benelli....3.5" capability, all Benelli parts work and handle great customer service next to none(I speak from experience) If I had around $700 to spend thats where I would go and there are only a couple of other brands worth more I would buy OVER a 3500 no matter how much I had to spend and I've been shooting waterfowl a long time with a lot of different models actions and gauges

[mklaver]

Thanks for such quick replies guys - keep 'em coming. I should have mentioned I dropped 11 doves in a couple of hours with my brother-in-laws 20g Browning Citori over/under, but that is way out of budget. :-)

[f350ps]

Hi All - I have been pass shooting ducks and geese for two years now with my 870 12g that I bought new two years ago. I am just back from a Yuma dove hunt (my second hunt down there - awesome experience - dropped WAY more birds this time) and it seemed everybody I was with was shooting Remington 1100's, so now I am eager to upgrade to a semi-auto (12g).

My limit is $700. Should I buy a used 1100, a new Remington 11-87, a CZ-712 (the guy at Wholesale Sports suggested it), or something else?

What is your advice?

As an aside, if there is anybody out there that wouldn't mind helping a novice out and showing him the ropes, I'd be grateful. I am a 44 yr old father and PADI Divemaster, so responsibilty, rules and safety are important to me. Like I say, I have been pass shooting for 2 years and know I have much to learn. Location is White Rock, but willing to drive anywhere.

Thanks in advance......

Michael
If you think that you'll kill more birds with a semi yer misguided, what's wrong with yer 2 yr old 870? K

[lorneparker1]

screw auto loaders!

I grew up where auto loaders become single shots after dec 1.

your 2 yr old 870 will kill just as many,

Lorne

[bearhunter338-06]

Hi All - I have been pass shooting ducks and geese for two years now with my 870 12g that I bought new two years ago. I am just back from a Yuma dove hunt (my second hunt down there - awesome experience - dropped WAY more birds this time) and it seemed everybody I was with was shooting Remington 1100's, so now I am eager to upgrade to a semi-auto (12g).

My limit is $700. Should I buy a used 1100, a new Remington 11-87, a CZ-712 (the guy at Wholesale Sports suggested it), or something else?

What is your advice?

As an aside, if there is anybody out there that wouldn't mind helping a novice out and showing him the ropes, I'd be grateful. I am a 44 yr old father and PADI Divemaster, so responsibilty, rules and safety are important to me. Like I say, I have been pass shooting for 2 years and know I have much to learn. Location is White Rock, but willing to drive anywhere.

Thanks in advance......

Michael

Darro Handy world class trap shooter 10,000 plus rounds a year......Remington 1100. Their is a reason they where all using Remington 1100's

[mklaver]

If you think that you'll kill more birds with a semi yer misguided, what's wrong with yer 2 yr old 870? K

Point#1 - I certainally don't think so. Practise and mentorship will help.

Point#2 - the 870 is just fine and I am sure I'll still be firing it 30 years from now, God willing - nothing wrong with a new toy, now is there?????? ;-)

Plus, with a second gun, my bro can hunt with me - I have way more dough than him.....

[f350ps]

Point#1 - I certainally don't think so. Practise and mentorship will help.

Point#2 - the 870 is just fine and I am sure I'll still be firing it 30 years from now, God willing - nothing wrong with a new toy, now is there?????? ;-)

Plus, with a second gun, my bro can hunt with me - I have way more dough than him.....
Okay, now I get it! If I were to buy a semi I would advise you to look at the Winchester SX-3's or the Beretta's and stay clear of the 1100's. I've owned two 1100's and they were both a POS, but I know there will be a ton of pro 1100 fans that will set me straight. I know of a couple guys that swear by their 1100's but they will also tell you that you better keep it clean, clean, clean or they'll fail ya. K

[bearhunter338-06]

Okay, now I get it! If I were to buy a semi I would advise you to look at the Winchester SX-3's or the Beretta's and stay clear of the 1100's. I've owned two 1100's and they were both a POS, but I know there will be a ton of pro 1100 fans that will set me straight. I know of a couple guys that swear by their 1100's but they will also tell you that you better keep it clean, clean, clean or they'll fail ya. K


I agree with the keeping the 1100 clean thats why I clean my 1100 every couple 1,000 rounds :mrgreen::-D or at least once every couple years lol

[Foxton Gundogs]

Okay, now I get it! If I were to buy a semi I would advise you to look at the Winchester SX-3's or the Beretta's and stay clear of the 1100's. I've owned two 1100's and they were both a POS, but I know there will be a ton of pro 1100 fans that will set me straight. I know of a couple guys that swear by their 1100's but they will also tell you that you better keep it clean, clean, clean or they'll fail ya. K

Agreed on the 1100 the older ones are fantastic the new ones not so much, one of my partners has just sent his back for the 3rd time for cycleing problems 3-4 month turnaround time its been in the shop way more than in the field. If you had the $ to spend I would say a SBE or X2 but with your budget I stand by the 3500. as for new toys I got my X2 after may years of being a pump man just because I love it but still trot out my 1952 Model 12 every year cuz its fun.

[russm]

my buddy inherited a semi auto remington from his grandpa and it is a jam master,seems like it jams more than it dosen't even after a good cleaning,i have an 870 and a 270 dollar maverick and haven't had a jam in either,been shooting the 870 for 2 years with no cleaning and the maverick for a year with no cleaning,not saying you should go buy a 270 dollar gun if you dont have to,but ive had better experiences shooting pumps than semis.

[Foxton Gundogs]

my buddy inherited a semi auto remington from his grandpa and it is a jam master,seems like it jams more than it dosen't even after a good cleaning,i have an 870 and a 270 dollar maverick and haven't had a jam in either,been shooting the 870 for 2 years with no cleaning and the maverick for a year with no cleaning,not saying you should go buy a 270 dollar gun if you dont have to,but ive had better experiences shooting pumps than semis.

Some jaming could be due to the ammo. You didnt say what model but the M58s had an gas ajustment for heavy or light loads on the forearm end cap. set wrong =trouble. The 1100 had interchangeable springs for heavy/light loads also had to be broke in with 2.75 ammo before using 3".

[bearhunter338-06]

my buddy inherited a semi auto remington from his grandpa and it is a jam master,seems like it jams more than it dosen't even after a good cleaning,i have an 870 and a 270 dollar maverick and haven't had a jam in either,been shooting the 870 for 2 years with no cleaning and the maverick for a year with no cleaning,not saying you should go buy a 270 dollar gun if you dont have to,but ive had better experiences shooting pumps than semis.


I would say the gas rings need to be changed as well. You'd be surprised how many people do not know you need to change them once in awhile.

[swamper]

Last year I picked up a Stoeger Mod 2000. It hasn't given me any trouble what so ever. The inertia drive system in my opinion is far superior to the gas operated guns. Far less cleaning involved. The only shells it doesn't like are my hand loads. Anything esle from AA's to 3' Black Cloud work great. My son bought a Weatherby semi last yeaar from Cabelas for under $500. Another nice gun.

[kyleklassen]

there has only been one good auto made.....
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/420609_3446292554235_1323604582_n.jpg

[keoke]

I would go hold every shotgun gun you can get your hands on. I was going to get mossberg 930 but then I held a winchester sx3 and left the store empty handed to save some more money.

[TheProvider]

I've hunted tons of waterfawl and always contemplate on getting an autoloader but the benelli nova always stays with me. By the time you pick the next bird and lead it you have plenty of time to "pump"

[blackbart]

Yesterday morning I shot three times as fast as I could put the bead on Mallards as they were leaving the pond I jumped. Three dead birds fell from the sky, thanks to a forty or so year old 1100 and 2 3/4" shells. I have never had a problem with this gun, neither did my Grandpa who owned it before I. Have probably shot 10,000 rounds through it without one single jam or malfunction. Would think it saw that many rounds before I ever touched it.

Thanks to reading about the virtues of 3" magnum shells and inter-changeable chokes I bought a DU issue Stoeger Semi-Auto about five years ago. The Stoeger is a complete and total POS. It jams about 1/2 the time even though the action was replaced under warranty. The forearm also split and now has a pin in it. My shooting went for crap with it as well (nothing like repeated jams to distract a person). The last two years the Stoeger has sat in the gun safe and the 1100 has been killing birds like crazy.

[Singleshotneeded]

How about an original Browning A5 semi auto? Benelli/Beretta is probably the best, but
I haven't heard anything bad about the Browning A5.

[Crazy_Farmer]

Nothing wrong with an old humpback.

[WaderGator]

save up more money or stick with the pump. buy good equipment once. i'll throw my vote in for the xtrema 2

[Dano]

I've got a '68 A5 magnum I've used for the last 10 years I'll sell, best duck gun I've ever owned. Barrel was opened up for steel. I bought a new unfired '74 A5 last spring that has choke tubes so the '68 is available at a good price.
Send a pm if interested.
Dan

[Tuckster]

Hey there,

I still shoot and 870 and have no real reason to upgrade at the moment. At some point I want to get a auto, but it will be a Benelli Super Black Eagle. The inertia drive is superior any gas drive system. My advice, use your gun and save for something like that. The browning Maxus, Remington 1100, Beretta Xtrema or the Benelli Super Black Eagle are all great guns. I would save up for one of these, you won't have any issues. I would also suggest going 3.5 inch if you havent already. It's all i shoot for ducks and geese (cheaper than 3 inch tungsten).

[Foxton Gundogs]

Hey there,

I still shoot and 870 and have no real reason to upgrade at the moment. At some point I want to get a auto, but it will be a Benelli Super Black Eagle. The inertia drive is superior any gas drive system. My advice, use your gun and save for something like that. The browning Maxus, Remington 1100, Beretta Xtrema or the Benelli Super Black Eagle are all great guns. I would save up for one of these, you won't have any issues. I would also suggest going 3.5 inch if you havent already. It's all i shoot for ducks and geese (cheaper than 3 inch tungsten).

The Stoeger 3500 is 3.5", and the same inertia system as the SBE great customer service from Benelli and less than 1/2 the cost of a SBE. Best bang for the buck out there IMO

[870]

I shoot a sx3 and love it. it fits real well and is super smooth. so smooth I can shoot it with one hand and film with the other. :)

[Beard]

The Stoeger 3500 is 3.5", and the same inertia system as the SBE great customer service from Benelli and less than 1/2 the cost of a SBE. Best bang for the buck out there IMO

Hey Foxton do you own the m3500? if so how long have you had it? I am looking into one but people keep saying if its anything like the m2000 it has problems. I also wonder what parts need to be changed on the m3500 and are they reasonable and available? anyone else that has any info please let me know.

[Foxton Gundogs]

There were some issues with the 2000, I dont own a 3500 but have two very good friends in the US that do, both have had them since Stoegers first run of them, no problems what so ever they both swear by them. I shot a box thru one and really liked it.They use the SBE inirta system and cycle everything from what I have seen and been told. As for customer service I had an issue with my P350 and Stoeger/Benelli had me up and shooting in 2 weeks. Price on the 3500 was in the low 6es last I looked

[stugatz]

If you think that you'll kill more birds with a semi yer misguided, what's wrong with yer 2 yr old 870? K

I will outgun any pumpsters with my benelli....any bets?

[stugatz]

BTW: I am selling a barely used extrema II with attached goodies....pm me if anyone interested.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I'll take that bet :mrgreen:

[swamper]

I really like my Stoeger 2000. The 3500 would be nice if yoiu want to shoot 3.5" shells. The other gun that is pretty nice for the price is the Weatherby SA-08. My son picked one up from Cabelas last year for around $500 and he knocks down a lot of birds with it.

[stugatz]

I'll take that bet :mrgreen:

You sure???:twisted:

[f350ps]

I will outgun any pumpsters with my benelli....any bets?
I'm sure you could rattle off 3 shots quicker than any man alive, difference is shit dies when I pull the trigger! :) K

[ruger#1]

Nothing wrong with an old humpback. Ha Ha, They are ugley as sin. I love my youth model 1100 Remington in 20g. Its nice and lite and I can pack it all day.

[field marshal]

I'm sure you could rattle off 3 shots quicker than any man alive, difference is shit dies when I pull the trigger! :) K

AMEN and AMEN again Kelly!!! I wonder if he means he can reach his limit faster than us "corn-shellers"???
If so , I myself would like to enjoy the hunting aspect of the shoot, and not go home 1/2 hour after shooting commences!
Cheers----Field Marshal.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I'm sure you could rattle off 3 shots quicker than any man alive, difference is shit dies when I pull the trigger! :) K

Isnt that what it all about:confused: HMMMMM maybe not, could it be that sucess is counter by no of hulls on the ground not birds in the bag........DAMN been getting it all wrong for the last 54 yrs:-?

[stugatz]

I'm sure you could rattle off 3 shots quicker than any man alive, difference is shit dies when I pull the trigger! :) K
Been doing it for thirty years and I started with a russian double shotgun when I was 15 so... I dont really impress easy. I can hold my own and as far as ducks and geese, I have shot my share... but hell we arent in a size contest, but if you want to brag I am all for that:wink:

[stugatz]

Isnt that what it all about:confused: HMMMMM maybe not, could it be that sucess is counter by no of hulls on the ground not birds in the bag........DAMN been getting it all wrong for the last 54 yrs:-?

If you ever wanna share a blind.... we can get an accountant to keep score.....stu

[stugatz]

AMEN and AMEN again Kelly!!! I wonder if he means he can reach his limit faster than us "corn-shellers"???
If so , I myself would like to enjoy the hunting aspect of the shoot, and not go home 1/2 hour after shooting commences!
Cheers----Field Marshal.
Dont get all defensive, You wonder why some people take blood pressure meds... p.s. Explain to me WHY you hunt? Possibly partly because you want to be succesful at what you do. If you like to stay all day in the blind....MORE POWER TO YOU. But to say that a semiauto is faster than a pump and someone out there feels like their manliness is being questioned, I really have to wonder....what the heck just happened here.

[FirePower]

Dont get all defensive, You wonder why some people take blood pressure meds... p.s. Explain to me WHY you hunt? Possibly partly because you want to be succesful at what you do. If you like to stay all day in the blind....MORE POWER TO YOU. But to say that a semiauto is faster than a pump and someone out there feels like their manliness is being questioned, I really have to wonder....what the heck just happened here.

You may be correct lad although, I have seen a stack of pump shooters who can cycle through 3 rounds incredably quickly, but fast and efficiantly fast are two very diffrent breeds of cats. Your original statement was not how fast an auto loader cycles, but that you could, with an auto loader outgun the pump shooters. I must say, knowing the capabilities of more than a few slide gun shooters, that is a pretty bold statement. At the end of the day it is not how fast you can push shot through the tube but how efficiantly you achieve it. Auto loader or slide action, you still have the bring back to bear, aim, lead and squeeze the shot, there-in lies the equalizer between the slight differance between the speed of the two actions. After the cycleing of the next round it still comes down to the ability of the marksman and that is the broad and narrow of it. I am by no means calling anyones machoism into suspect just stating facts as I have witnessed them.

[stugatz]

You may be correct lad although, I have seen a stack of pump shooters who can cycle through 3 rounds incredably quickly, but fast and efficiantly fast are two very diffrent breeds of cats. Your original statement was not how fast an auto loader cycles, but that you could, with an auto loader outgun the pump shooters. I must say, knowing the capabilities of more than a few slide gun shooters, that is a pretty bold statement. At the end of the day it is not how fast you can push shot through the tube but how efficiantly you achieve it. Auto loader or slide action, you still have the bring back to bear, aim, lead and squeeze the shot, there-in lies the equalizer between the slight differance between the speed of the two actions. After the cycleing of the next round it still comes down to the ability of the marksman and that is the broad and narrow of it. I am by no means calling anyones machoism into suspect just stating facts as I have witnessed them.
Very well said, and i am sure there are plenty of excellent slide shooters. I guess what it comes down is human physics, by the time a slide shooter does his trombone like movement, the simple act of pulling a trigger has to be taken as the more efficient movement.

[f350ps]

Very well said, and i am sure there are plenty of excellent slide shooters. I guess what it comes down is human physics, by the time a slide shooter does his trombone like movement, the simple act of pulling a trigger has to be taken as the more efficient movement.
So what I'm getting from this is if a guy shoots an autoloader he can expect to kill more birds, is that what yer saying? K

[swamper]

An earlier post called the Stoeger a POS. Lets face it guys, like cars and trucks, there are probably a few lemons made by every manufacturer. We hear about the 1100's causing problems, the 11-870's as well, but there are a lot of people out there with Stoegers that have no problems whatsoever. Go to a store, shoulder lots of guns, and then make your decision based on fit and reputation and whether you can afford the gun. Lots of us would love to own a Benelli, Extrema 3, or a Versamax, but the budget just doesn't allow for it. Don't rain on a fellows parade because his budget is $700 and not $2000. Millions of birds have been shot using inexpensive guns.

[ruger#1]

I think I could get more ducks with a AA12. You guys wouldn't be able to keep up picking all the dead birds off of the ground. LOL

[stugatz]

So what I'm getting from this is if a guy shoots an autoloader he can expect to kill more birds, is that what yer saying? K
Yep thats the jist of it ...of course if a guy cant shoot its irrelevant . But if two guys with the same skillset and expertise shoot together my money is on the autoloader.

[stugatz]

I think I could get more ducks with a AA12. You guys wouldn't be able to keep up picking all the dead birds off of the ground. LOL
Yeah! you sound like a guy that could use it.

[f350ps]

Yep thats the jist of it ...of course if a guy cant shoot its irrelevant . But if two guys with the same skillset and expertise shoot together my money is on the autoloader.
Wow, pretty bold statement, you must have a lot of experience so I ain't touching this, what do I know! Thanks, for the info. K

[ruger#1]

Yeah! you sound like a guy that could use it. I was shooting ducks in this valley before they had a goose season. I have used singles , doubles, pumps and auto loaders. If you think I can not shoot game birds then you are highly mistaken. And yes I would love the AA12. It would be great for shooting zombies.

[stugatz]

Wow, pretty bold statement, you must have a lot of experience so I ain't touching this, what do I know! Thanks, for the info. K
Not bold just what I believe in...and yup over 30years hunting with everything from a double to a pump to a semiauto,hunted bandtails in the late seventies with my dad in abbotsford and squamish to pheasants and ducks and geese in Alberta, to a lot of farms in the lower mainland, and public marshes in the Delta.......so I have my few notches but hell what do I know.

[stugatz]

I was shooting ducks in this valley before they had a goose season. I have used singles , doubles, pumps and auto loaders. If you think I can not shoot game birds then you are highly mistaken. And yes I would love the AA12. It would be great for shooting zombies.
never said you couldnt..you are the one with the AA12 comment

[stugatz]

An earlier post called the Stoeger a POS. Lets face it guys, like cars and trucks, there are probably a few lemons made by every manufacturer. We hear about the 1100's causing problems, the 11-870's as well, but there are a lot of people out there with Stoegers that have no problems whatsoever. Go to a store, shoulder lots of guns, and then make your decision based on fit and reputation and whether you can afford the gun. Lots of us would love to own a Benelli, Extrema 3, or a Versamax, but the budget just doesn't allow for it. Don't rain on a fellows parade because his budget is $700 and not $2000. Millions of birds have been shot using inexpensive guns.
Actually you are very right, to each his own.

[180grainer]

Yer already shooting one of best guns around, why change? You'll save yourself a lot of money in shells if ya stick to a pump. K

that's good advice. That last shot is almost always a hail mary. I've been shooting the same 870 wingmaster for almost 35 years. Never had the desire to change.

[Scuba_Dave]

Go Beretta!!! That thing is amazing...I want one bad lol

[Foxton Gundogs]

Go Beretta!!! That thing is amazing...I want one bad lol

I just bought an X-2 last year and you are right it is a very nice gun, but it was a very nice price as well and to be honest doesnt kill any more birds than my P350 that I paid $400 for. The true "worth" of a shot gun is how well it fits and how effeciantly the shooter can use it. On a budget dont be afraid of less expensive just be sure it fits.
For the member that posted that a Stoeger is a POS, I am truely sorry you got a lemmon, lemmons are frustrating, no fun and can leave us bitter, but your experience is NOT the norm. It is in fact the only truely bad one I have heard of and I just counted, I know personally an even dozen guys who shoot diffrent models of Stoegers, not including myself. We all like them and every one says they are the best deal $ for $ on the market today. I can speak from personal experience their customer service is second to none. One of my partners has a brand new 1100. I say brand new because even though its now 2 yrs old he has not put enough rounds thru it to make it a "used" gun. It has been sent back 3 times for cycleing problems. The turn around time has been 3-4 mos. Does that make all Remingtons POSs? You decide.
I am now at a point in life where I can shoot ,with in reason, whatever I want, but I still remember the Greeners, the Cooeys, the JC Higgins in my life they got me here and they made me whatever I am todat andI wouldnt change that for all the X2s abd SBEs in the world. Being on a budget is nothing to be ashamed of, you dont need to take food out of your kids mouths just so you can shoot a high $ waterfowl gun to have fun and at the end of the day isnt fun what its really all about?

[FirePower]

Very well stated Foxton

[f350ps]

I just bought an X-2 last year and you are right it is a very nice gun, but it was a very nice price as well and to be honest doesnt kill any more birds than my P350 that I paid $400 for. The true "worth" of a shot gun is how well it fits and how effeciantly the shooter can use it. On a budget dont be afraid of less expensive just be sure it fits.
For the member that posted that a Stoeger is a POS, I am truely sorry you got a lemmon, lemmons are frustrating, no fun and can leave us bitter, but your experience is NOT the norm. It is in fact the only truely bad one I have heard of and I just counted, I know personally an even dozen guys who shoot diffrent models of Stoegers, not including myself. We all like them and every one says they are the best deal $ for $ on the market today. I can speak from personal experience their customer service is second to none. One of my partners has a brand new 1100. I say brand new because even though its now 2 yrs old he has not put enough rounds thru it to make it a "used" gun. It has been sent back 3 times for cycleing problems. The turn around time has been 3-4 mos. Does that make all Remingtons POSs? You decide.
I am now at a point in life where I can shoot ,with in reason, whatever I want, but I still remember the Greeners, the Cooeys, the JC Higgins in my life they got me here and they made me whatever I am todat andI wouldnt change that for all the X2s abd SBEs in the world. Being on a budget is nothing to be ashamed of, you dont need to take food out of your kids mouths just so you can shoot a high $ waterfowl gun to have fun and at the end of the day isnt fun what its really all about?
Well said!! K

[stugatz]

I just bought an X-2 last year and you are right it is a very nice gun, but it was a very nice price as well and to be honest doesnt kill any more birds than my P350 that I paid $400 for. The true "worth" of a shot gun is how well it fits and how effeciantly the shooter can use it. On a budget dont be afraid of less expensive just be sure it fits.
For the member that posted that a Stoeger is a POS, I am truely sorry you got a lemmon, lemmons are frustrating, no fun and can leave us bitter, but your experience is NOT the norm. It is in fact the only truely bad one I have heard of and I just counted, I know personally an even dozen guys who shoot diffrent models of Stoegers, not including myself. We all like them and every one says they are the best deal $ for $ on the market today. I can speak from personal experience their customer service is second to none. One of my partners has a brand new 1100. I say brand new because even though its now 2 yrs old he has not put enough rounds thru it to make it a "used" gun. It has been sent back 3 times for cycleing problems. The turn around time has been 3-4 mos. Does that make all Remingtons POSs? You decide.
I am now at a point in life where I can shoot ,with in reason, whatever I want, but I still remember the Greeners, the Cooeys, the JC Higgins in my life they got me here and they made me whatever I am todat andI wouldnt change that for all the X2s abd SBEs in the world. Being on a budget is nothing to be ashamed of, you dont need to take food out of your kids mouths just so you can shoot a high $ waterfowl gun to have fun and at the end of the day isnt fun what its really all about?
Very well said.

[mklaver]

Hi All - thank you for all the advice and I've enjoyed the many places this post has gone. I thought I'd update you as to what I wound up doing. Based on 4 family members (too far away to go hunting with unfortunately) owning one and having nothing but good things to say, and to be honest the price as well (I too many priorities to spend my money on to justify spending 4 figures on a second gun), I went with the Rem 1187 12g. I brought home a Mallard on a quiet Sat am when others were skunked and shot a double with my first shot this am - see my post in "Season Reports" - so I am pretty happy so far. I am sure have dropped those ducks with my 870 as well, or better yet now my brother can go hunting with me and use it, but I wanted to give a semi-auto a try and thus far I am happy.

Thanks again everybody......

M

[limit time]

If you ever wanna share a blind.... we can get an accountant to keep score.....stu
Sign me up!

[Sako 75]

My first shotgun was 20 ga 1100 and second one was 12 ga 1100 ( not very reliable, need cleaning every outing). Got tired of it because of all the malfunction so got Wingmaster 870 with 30" tube works like charm through mud, salt water, snow, boat paddle...long story short engine on punt died and no oars. Fast forward steelshot era need a steelshot shotgun and it was excused to buy a new toy got Peerless 12 ga. Got bored with over and under so now I used Xtrema 3.5 only clean once when the season is over.

[wicket]

there has only been one good auto made.....
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/420609_3446292554235_1323604582_n.jpg

could not agree more....get yourself an A5 and never look back. i own 6 of them
as far as shooting better with an auto definately you will. First thing is less recoil never a bad thing, secondly less movement ie no pumping ...with every pump your head has the opportunity to lift less movement while swinging will lend itself to consistant smooth leads and follow thrus while keeping your head on the stock where it needs to be. this may seem over simplified but its my opinion and what I have seen and experienced. got into a peein match with someone on gun nutzs once over the my opinion that shotgunning is shotgunning regardless of what you are doing and when my experience level was questioned I was called a liar ....needless to say i have some experience in the matter. Now regardless of what shotgun you shoot be it a piece of pipe on a 2x4 or a 6000 dollar kriegoff you arent going to hit anything if you ignore the basics. like the others have said find a gun that you like and the rest will fall into place.

[overunder]

I own a browning silver. Love it. The new browning autoloaders are good guns

[Freshtracks]

No point being a 6, dressed up like 9. :cool:

Single, double, pump or auto ... if it fits and you've 'put in the clay's' ... you'll have allot of fun. :wink: