When a cross breed becomes pure

[yamadirt 426]

In light of the weimy cross thread. It got me wondering when does a cross breed become pure breed. And using the wirehaired pointing griffon as an example . The history suggests many wiredhairs before 1870 but korthals created his dogs from 1 bitch and a few studs and wrote the breed standard within 10 yrs. then over the last hundred years there has been a few manipulations. Bla bla bla fast forward to some people forming a club in the 1990s and voila it was recognized as pure breed akc. Some breeds are good enough for the club and some not. So what makes the breed pure ? Will we see new hunting breeds in our life time ? And if so will YOU consider them a pure breed ? What's your take ?

[Steelwheels]

Good post...Excellent point??

[yamadirt 426]

Your question marks confuse me lol but that's not hard to do

[thehammer]

You have to own a huge estate, have truck loads of money, wear twead and smoke a pipe and have a cool sounding name, only then can you create a new breed.

[kelmore]

when you can breed consitently true. thats why the doodles are still muts

[Steelwheels]

Your question marks confuse me lol but that's not hard to do

So what makes the breed pure??

[Foxton Gundogs]

Simple, when you produce a strain that breed "true" that is to say in conformation coat(althought there may be diffrent 'types' of both) color and above all the traits for which you breed for. BUT the most importand is when you no longer need to cross two breeds to produce the desired results. Example.. you cross A with B to produce an AB in doing so you keep your private stud book records to follow the results of the breeding program and when you can breed 1 AB with a diffrent line of AB to produce "true" ABs you have the starting of a breed.....This over simplifies it to be sure but thats it in a nutshell.

[kinderdoggin]

I inquired about this once with Ag Canada back when my family did competitive sled dog racing with mixed breed sled dogs and I thought it might be beneficial as far as record keeping goes to have them recognized as their own breed. However, it is an extremely long and complicated feat to start from scratch and result in a recognized (registerable under the Animal Pedigree Act) purebred dog in Canada. Other countries may have different regulations. Here (going by memory, from when I asked about 20 years ago, so don't quote me on the specifics) you need to form a breed club/association, write a standard, start with 'x' number of dogs, and go through all kinds of paperwork applications to get a 'breed in progress' established. You would need a huge network of committed volunteers interested in the same goal in order to make it work. It takes many generations to end up with a true, consistently pure-breeding line of dogs with enough individuals to establish a stable closed gene pool. Then once you have got all this preliminary stuff established, you can apply to have the breed standard and pool of dogs recognized by the Canadian Kennel Club, a process which must be approved by the membership.

In all honesty, there is already such a great variety of hunting breeds out there already, some of which are recognized by our kennel club and others that are REAL purebreds but currently unrecognized in this country, that I don't see any new true and legitimate hunting breeds being developed here. But it is certainly possible that some of the foreign breeds will eventually become CKC recognized and gain in popularity.

The website with the weim mixes referenced here as 'developing a pure breed' will never accomplish that goal under their current direction, and in fact I don't believe it is a true goal at all but a justification for breeding and marketing a mix.

[yamadirt 426]

Thanks guys. You can see how some get worked up over this issue. It requires serious time, effort and money just to keep the best of the best alive and thriving.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Thanks guys. You can see how some get worked up over this issue. It requires serious time, effort and money just to keep the best of the best alive and thriving.

You got it Yammy, my Spaniels are coming into the 9th generation of my own, what I call, "Born to Hunt" breeding program. It has involved 28 years of dedication, love frustration work and tears. I have done my best to produce good healthy dogs with great temperments and a good trainability factor. Dogs that are neither "rockets" nor "plodders". All round gundogs that can do their owner proud with all maner of upland and waterfowl....and yes even rabbits lol. I have had to "heartlessly" cull unwanted traits out. A couple of my favorite dogs never prioduced litters for me because they were way to high powered for my purpose. I have always tried to keep my pup prices in the realm of affordability for "Joe Hunter" and when I see so called designer dog breeders throwing 2 breeds together with little or no thought of outcome, taging on a fancy name, sales pitch and big $ price tag, you bet I get worked up as do others who have worked every bit as hard and harder to breed and promote their chosen breed and lines.

[bcgamebirds]

I have not been at it as long as Foxton, but I do agree with all he said. There are so many good breeds out there! I can understand that sometimes things happen, but to make that into a X breed for profit. REALLY

[FirePower]

You chaps have it pined down alright, but do not let it get to you, fads come and go, but "blood will tell". Keep up the good work lads.