No moose hunting in Area 5

[Frango]

The Tletingox-tin band from the chilcotin region has announced they will be closing all of area 5 to all moose hunting for non natives.They intend to close all roads and stop all hunters from hunting.This is form one of the Williams lake papers..If true could be interesting in how the Government is going to handle this one..If true good luck to all LEH holders in region 5

[moosinaround]

Nope, won't happen. Not enough first Nations peoples to block all the roads! I will still hunt in there, I am a tax paying citizen with all the proper permits! They will be breaking the law, and will go to jail! Simple! Moosin

[dakoda62]

if thats the case i may have to change my plans i may have to go to the Chilcotin.

[JIL_24/7]

I can see the title of the article from the Williams Lake Tribune, but they want $50.00 for me to read it. Anyone got a link so we can read it?

[BCLongshot]

Give'em a Walmart and they get so confident.

I mean people in Williams Lake obviously.....lol....lol

[300H&H]

I think all roads leading out of the Indian reserve should be permanently blocked !!!

Simple...you don't let us in there...we won't let you out here.

Enjoy your moose now !

[Whonnock Boy]

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/64595952/Moose_Hunting.pdf

[cens]

Can they legally stop you from hunting moose? Would you not just be able to walk around their blockade?

[Poguebilt]

Block all the roads and let them live of the land.... this is pure BS!!

[kwasky]

well ive got a draw for 5-2d and i fully intend on filling it.

[300H&H]

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/64595952/Moose_Hunting.pdf

Please check this file...I could not open it.

[JIL_24/7]

Just read it. Wow. That's all I've got for now.

[300H&H]

I hate to say it but IF they block the roads Im worried someone will use their guns on someone or something other than moose.

Do you remember when they blockaded the road to Apex ski hill ?

Sad to say it seems like the police would not get involved.

[elker]

treat those road blocking FN as moose and continue your moose hunting.

i was in 5-12 last year, spending a lot money in a FN convenience store,never saw them smile at you.

[olharley guy]

Can they legally stop you from hunting moose? Would you not just be able to walk around their blockade?

Howdy, it states they are "stopping all hunting" unless you use one of their first nations people. Walk around and they will escort you out. LOL Later

[dakoda62]

S.S.S Works a philosophy

[ianwuzhere]

i remember they did that in region 6 couple years ago... from what i hear everyone stayed away from the area, police were also present to prevent any altercations..
id rather not come back to my vehicle parked for any length of time with that kind of protest stuff going on..

[gutpile]

well ive got a draw for 5-2d and i fully intend on filling it.

You can try, but you better have someone look after your truck and your camp !

[srupp]

hmmm like I said earlier when I posted this article...its NOT JUST deactivating rds...its a written stated intention of 'escorting" non natives OUT of the area..that specifically escalates this and makes it much more threatening..it implies physical contact..= assault, physically moving someone against their will...kidnapping..against folks that WILL be carrying weapons...

IN THE PAST the RCMP have made concious decisions NOT to allow non aboriginals to react to blockades..could be a hot summer and a hotter fall..

just having the threat ruins the enjoyment...physical harm or property damage..by individuals playing by differnt rules...

[kevan]

My eldest Grandson and I are drawn in 5-13 for Moose, now this is the first successful draw for me in 13 years of trying.
In the course of applying for several different hunts every year over that period of time, I've spent a lot of money and I have to say that I'll be damned if anyone or any group will prevent my hunt.... 'nuff said....

[sparkes3]

i guess the last government hand out must be all gone now so its time to get another one.
people wonder why natives get the shitty end of the stick on here and here we go with this bull krap again.
any body caught blocking a road should be thrown in jail untill hunting season is over.

[kwasky]

"hmmm like I said earlier when I posted this article...its NOT JUST deactivating rds...its a written stated intention of 'escorting" non natives OUT of the area..that specifically escalates this and makes it much more threatening..it implies physical contact..= assault, physically moving someone against their will...kidnapping..against folks"

So are they LEGALLY alloud to do this?

[cens]

Howdy, it states they are "stopping all hunting" unless you use one of their first nations people. Walk around and they will escort you out. LOL Later

I'm more than capable of reading what they wrote, but what is stopping someone from telling them which part of their body they can suck?

[dakoda62]

Redneck adventure tourism, guns, liquor yeha yipee ky ya m&@$%^ker

[olharley guy]

Howdy Cens-maybe about 20 +armed natives. I know I would turn around! If trouble started guess who would spend the most time in the crowbar hotel?

I really don't need a free room, including meals. LOL later

[srupp]

Lets see how it works out?? I suspect $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in copious amounts will be thrown at the natives to head off this..and I suggest that as in the past here in the sunny Chilcotin the RCMP will move in to PREVENT HUNTERS from entering this area and by thus doing prevent conflicts and threats and potential violence...it HAS happened here before..I was there and was informed i would be arrested IF I chose to try and drive down HIGHWAY 20 and home to work .It is ILLEGAL to interfere with a lawfull hunt..video cameras..and such may prove invaluable to whom did what..

steven

[cens]

Howdy Cens-maybe about 20 +armed natives. I know I would turn around! If trouble started guess who would spend the most time in the crowbar hotel?

I really don't need a free room, including meals. LOL later

Alright, I've got a plan then. Block the entrances to the local liquor stores. Trade moose for whiskey?

[fuzzybiscuit]

Must...not...touch...keyboard...

[kebes]

'The province doesn't own the land/The province needs to protect the land'.......am I missing something here?

[Gunner]

Must...not...touch...keyboard...I understand believe me!I can only imagine what Canuckshooter will have to say about this!:mrgreen: Gunner

[millman911]

They are the only band in B.C granted title. Which means they own the land. I think it`s B.S and like others am tired of saying sorry.

[RENO]

Here we go again :shock:

[RENO]

Is it the 17th century again in region 5?

[olharley guy]

Howdy, I tried to send a message to John Cummins asking what if anything can be done about this but it came back undeliverable?? Maybe someone else can give it a try. Later

[kebes]

This needs to be addressed in a firm and professional manner (not attacking and racial). I'd love to hear what the BCWF's plan is in dealing with this. If it's a good plan then we need to be purposeful in getting BC's hunter's behind it, if they don't have one then we need someone to make one.

[Islandbowhunter]

Focus on the moose numbers, check out the moose numbers. Who's familiar with the moose populations in that area? Is it really hunting pressure from non-natives causing the decline? If no, then what? Let's put the pressure there.

I'm trying to stay positive...but Oh Canada this really does hit a nerve. And very specific to hunters...this is basic primitive-level stuff here. It's supposed to tick us off, to garner a response. Intentionally divisive.

[scoutlt1]

And sure....make sure that native guide outfitters can still take people hunting....

f***......point made already....best to stay off the keyboard...

[frenchbar]

They stop the logging... they stop the hunting ..the day is coming they run the wildlife in bc ..i hope im long gone by then ..

[barry1974w]

All those with moose draws should look at the attached map....

[srupp]

hmm IF they stop the hunting here it sets a precident everywhere for every native band...slippery steep slope...

as for moose being a historical species..they only arrived in the 40[s so Im told?? from the Peace River area..

Remember OAKA..natives shot and killed a police officer..its CELEBRATED by the natives..and the story has slowly 'evolved" no one was ever held accountable....


steven

[Islandbowhunter]

So there's the hingepoint argument, moose are non-traditional. Keep the focus on their arguments regarding moose, much as this angers and frustrates. Thanks for the great info on the history of moose in the area. What's the source?

[srupp]

there is no doubt there is an agenda..$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

as for the moose #s they are down , seems like everywhere, however i only know #s in the Cariboo mts 5-15 areas..wolves are raising hell..on a brighter note the number off bucks are up an astounding #s seeing way more bucks than does...so seems is everone I talk with..in every corner..

steven

[scoutlt1]

I'm making a call first thing monday morning to the CO office for information on how this will be dealt with.


Cariboo Regional Office:
400 - 640 Borland Street
Williams Lake, BC V2G 4T1
Phone: 250 398-4530
Fax: 250 398-4214

[Islandbowhunter]

If numbers are down, then the solution would be to reduce numbers for all hunters. The focus on the us-them thing is old, but 'they' keep breathing new life into it. Proposed illegal activity? How does this type of thing go over in any reasonable nation?

[Jelvis]

Those Chilcotins are known for the stand they take, they are some protective and culturally proud people.
Sounds like they want their own guides to have the country to hunt. And some money for predator control from MOE.
I met a couple fellas from up there on a course in Kamloops, and they told me about this mountain that when people look at it at certain times, they can have major problems. One of the guys was hitting a sand filled heavy bag with bare knuckles with heavy shots, most people would smash their bones in the wrist and hand. Six foot 3 and over 200.
He told me about some history up there with different times and people and I couldn't believe his strong opinions and pride.
There is a mountain in this region that they can not look at or will have bad things happen. Anyone know the name of the mountain and when not to look? I should have remembered but it was in 1999.
Jel .. I don't know what's going to happen .. I heard a few things on tv about road blocks and railroad blocks coming.
New AFN elections on July 18th federally so we'll see soon who wins out of six candidates. Might change things.

[Islandbowhunter]

"An Indian named Moleese killed a moose at Indian Meadow in the fall of 1916. He didn't know what this huge beast was but figured it might be good to eat. Afraid to taste the meat, he cut out the tongue and lips and galloped off to his tribe to talk to his friends. The rest of the tribe was excited, too, and a dozen men accompanied him with pack horses back to the kill to bring in the meat, head and horns. But no one knew what the big mowich was, not even the Old One who had lived for over a hundred years."

I haven't verified the source, but a quick Google search found this page. Scroll down a bit: http://www.resortsbc.com/Wilderness-AdventuresFeb2-07.html

[Gunner]

They are the only banded in B.C granted title. Which means they own the land. I think it`s B.S and like others am tired of saying sorry.The area that they have "closed" to moose hunting is NOT part of their "proven" titled or rights lands.They are calling it "Caretaker Land" Gunner

[CraigOC]

I was driving back from my buddies cabin at Nimpo Lake which is about 300kms west down Hwy 20 from Williams Lake on Thursday and saw 3 moose that were all shooters, and it was 33C+ that day and these guys were just standing on the side of the highway. If this happens everyone participating should be arrested and charged, it is utterly ridiculous. I'm not saying they don't have a point or the population isn't down but this isn't how things are resolved. This is how children act.

[Jelvis]

There's moose in Boston Bar .. By Blue Lake, quite a few apparently so if they did move down from Alaska then they must have been seen by somebody. Eh?

[Gunner]

There's moose north of Squamish too Jelvis,that weren't there 30 years ago.What's your point? Gunner

[XPEIer]

There is a mountain in this region that they can not look at or will have bad things happen. Anyone know the name of the mountain and when not to look? I should have remembered but it was in 1999.


That mountain would be Tsylos, where the legend is if you stare at the mountain you will have bad luck. There is a ton more to the story but I cannot recall at this time.

Xpeier

PS, no comment on the article, but i do predict a very tense fall. What about people that want to fish at lakes like Palmer, Raven, Boat, Dragon??? are they going to be allowed to cross the roadblocks, what about campers, who is going to search my vehicle and determine if I am going moose hunting or not?

[springpin]

**** them!!

[SUAFOYT]

Here's how I see it unfolding. Nothing will be done to the native band in question. The CO service will refer to their superiors. The RCMP will initially stay uninvolved with the usual 30 second sound bite about how everyone has to stay calm. The trouble will be when a licensed hunter(s) will be asked to leave the area when they have no idea about this nonsense and resist as they are on crown land. I hope that no one gets hurt, but this has the potential to get nasty. The politicians no matter what the stripe will go off on a tangent that will have nothing to do with the legal hunting issue. It's sickening that the issue of "protecting" moose numbers has been entwined with the tried and true red herring about pre European stewardship. What a steaming pile of crap.

[f350ps]

This just reeks GOABC, you can put money on that! K

[Jelvis]

The C.O's and the RCMP will help out I'm sure they are good at carrying out their job descriptions.
I wouldn't panic it could be a negotiating tool and will be worked out by the authorities.

[SUAFOYT]

The C.O's and the RCMP will help out I'm sure they are good at carrying out their job descriptions.
I wouldn't panic it could be a negotiating factor and will be worked out by the authorities.

You're dreaming in technicolor again if you think that the RCMP are going to stop or arrest any band member when or if they interfere with a lawful hunt.

[rocket]

Just so everybody is aware these are the band against prosperty mine as well. great bunch of people.NOT Cutem off welfare and band funding see how long before they change their tune.

[Jelvis]

The RCMP are taught in Depot @ Regina to treat everyone in Canada equally, otherwise it's agin the law.
No one is above the law.

[scoutlt1]

Here's how I see it unfolding. Nothing will be done to the native band in question. The CO service will refer to their superiors. The RCMP will initially stay uninvolved with the usual 30 second sound bite about how everyone has to stay calm. The trouble will be when a licensed hunter(s) will be asked to leave the area when they have no idea about this nonsense and resist as they are on crown land. I hope that no one gets hurt, but this has the potential to get nasty. The politicians no matter what the stripe will go off on a tangent that will have nothing to do with the legal hunting issue. It's sickening that the issue of "protecting" moose numbers has been entwined with the tried and true red herring about pre European stewardship. What a steaming pile of crap.

I 100% agree. And there is a good chance that I may be that "licensed hunter" as I am planning to be up there during hunting season. I don't do well with being "kindly escorted out" of a place where I am legally allowed to be in.
I'm not necessarily referring to myself, but this whole thing has a chance of getting ugly.

[Jelvis]

I would be extremely careful if your driving in to any lake in that moose area and you come to a Indian road blockage.
First don't think those boys at the road block stopping you are the only eyes watching.
Cameras and people in the bush watching the road block and backing up the braves on the road block.
This could hit Global TV if this is actually a real letter that was shown earlier. O a fake?

[The Dude]

The RCMP are taught in Depot @ Regina to treat everyone in Canada equally, otherwise it's agin the law.
No one is above the law.


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f88/alienbatman/Jelvis.jpg

IS


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/rosepetal2u2003/dreaming.jpg

IN


http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg232/wonderfail/techcolor.jpg
AGAIN

[The Hermit]

Kudos to the Tletingox-tin for coming up with a plan in a matter of weeks rather than the 6+ months it will take the Province to study, consult, and review the data before coming up with and implementing a plan. In fact, given the decline in moose populations, I could even live with a closure if it was closed for EVERYONE. Its too bad the Tletingox-tin have chosen to claim this as a conservation driven action while allowing their own guides to profit from the hunt and their people to continue with the practice of unreported harvest. It is a derisive and highly suspicious strategy that could lead to violence and at a minimum will engender growing resentment and racism.

In my opinion, the practice of FN not reporting their harvest takes scientific wildlife management a big step closer to wild-assed-guessing, especially when the Province has failed to fund frequent and regular ariel counts. When FN don't report their harvest it leads to speculation about just how many moose are actually killed each year...

I wonder what if anything the leaders of each political party will say about this one. WTF Where is Fisher Dude when we need him? LOL

[The Dude]

If you think about it, they're really rolling the dice here. This could backfire BIG time on them, and they screw up hunting for all natives.
Especially Natives hunting non-native species with non-native weapons and non-native equipment.
:D

[Ourea]

A thread that deals with all the key push button topics.....

Moose.....very sensitive management/opportunity issue...

First Nations....well....what can I say other than NO WIN topic.....hate comes out and nothing is ever resolved from being a hater.

Illegal road blocks........:roll:

Native hunting escorts...(guiding in other words...another no win topic) :roll:

Put 'em all together....perfect storm.

Some get it and have responded appropriately....
.....some are just pissed... and I understand their frustration and i am not pointing fingers....

A collective "voice" that is well crafted and pointed in the right direction is the right bus to get on.
Bring attention to the issue so the issue gets out to the mainstream media before shit hits the fan in the fall when face to face conflict may transpire.

No doubt there is a higher objective in mind with the start of this conflict.
....create conflict....use it as leverage at the negotiating table to address/get what you really want.
It's been going on for decades...nothing new here.
Don't get mad...see it for what it really is....fight it with the right ammunition.

[Wild one]

Three thing I see in the future with this

Govt will cave because they lack balls

Rcmp will not back the law biding hunter but instead add to the harassment

Hunters will not work together and will end up screwed


Get ready for a kick in the nuts unless a miracle happens and people get organized to stop this.

[The Hermit]

A thread that deals with all the key push button topics.....

Moose.....very sensitive management/opportunity issue...

First Nations....well....what can I say other than NO WIN topic.....hate comes out and nothing is ever resolved from being a hater.

Illegal road blocks........:roll:

Native hunting escorts...(guiding in other words...another no win topic) :roll:

Put 'em all together....perfect storm.

Some get it and have responded appropriately....
.....some are just pissed... and I understand their frustration and i am not pointing fingers....

A collective "voice" that is well crafted and pointed in the right direction is the right bus to get on.
Bring attention to the issue so the issue gets out to the mainstream media before shit hits the fan in the fall when face to face conflict may transpire.

No doubt there is a higher objective in mind with the start of this conflict.
....create conflict....use it as leverage at the negotiating table to address/get what you really want.
It's been going on for decades...nothing new here.
Don't get mad...see it for what it really is....fight it with the right ammunition.


Yup, it would be very interesting if 80,000 licensed hunters all showed up at the blockade wearing camo and carrying signs! Who is in? hahaha

[Wild one]

Yup, it would be very interesting if 80,000 licensed hunters all showed up at the blockade wearing camo and carrying signs! Who is in? hahaha

This is about what it would take but will never happen because organization is not there and most would never take the time to show.

[Jelvis]

I know the fellas I'm talking to say the Chilly Cootins guides have hunts for Europeans from Germany that want to hunt traditionally like the natives did back when the bow and arrows were used. So they pay big for the specialty hunts.
Bow and Arrow at close range on a rutting Canadian bull moose called in by an Indian scout as he sits twenty yards back of you as the bull comes walking in swaying his massive rack back and forth slowly moving the heavy bone.
So they do have traditional hunting methods for others to live the dream of the early west of Canucklesville.
Jel .. Who yah going to call .. ?!!? .. Tell em Jelly sent yah .. who what .. from Kammy Region 3 .. Thompson Rivers
Shuswap country the guy with the mullet . Big dude looks like he works out everyday . My cousin Rocco .. oh yah go4it
and have a great hunt, NEXT!

[scoutlt1]

This is about what it would take but will never happen because organization is not there and most would never take the time to show.

I would be there in a heartbeat!

[pnbrock]

hell of an idea !!time to be heard .white man can't hunt here because we guiding other white man here!thats what i hear from this.

[roping_tom]

Well looks like the white boys are about to loose another round. I see the govt givin big $$$$$ and our hunting licences goin up next year! Its hard not to be bitter.

[roping_tom]

"Jel .. Who yah going to call .. ?!!? .. Tell em Jelly sent yah .. who what .. from Kammy Region 3 .. Thompson Rivers"

U have lost it

[pnbrock]

are they secretly talking among bands to start all the guiding in bc?stopped bear hunting in charlotte now this ,who is standing up for us ?do my taxes and licence fees not go towards anything to help us?

[scoutlt1]

A disgusting amount of MY money goes to people and agencies who work for ME!!!! MOE, CO's, RCMP, etc...and they all damn well better protect my interests! If they don't, I will deal with it myself!
This is ALL about $$$$$$!!!!! I don't care what color, race, or beliefs one has....there is right and wrong! This is wrong!!!!

There is NO "traditional" moose hunting in this area.... (Jelly, I love ya and you make me laugh and smile lots).... but this is one that I can't pass on.....

and dammit....I thought I could stay away from the keyboard... :???:

[Islandbowhunter]

Jelvis said Canadian bull moose...I agree, being Canadian and all!

[srupp]

hmmm Jelly they aint guiding no Europeans..they are taking shyt loads of moose some gets ate some gets sold..at the bars etc.. a good road block at Sheep Creek Bridge??

If anyone wants the correct conservation officer..the TOP guy locally for the entire region is named LEN...a stand up guy...any one else is just standard C/O..

steven

[Jelvis]

It's a she mozzle boys, no one will come forth and make a stand against the stand. I would phone the closest Chief of the band where you got a valid leh moose tag. If you can. If you can't get through, ask for the game dept of the band.
Talk and ask. Maybe try on an I-Phone after you introduce yourself and ask if there would be a resistance up there if you just drove in to hunt a legal BC moose.
He could be nice and friendly or cool and reserved. Gotta try to find out. Might be a female Chief .. Women are more popular for Chiefs now when the votes are counted.
Jel .. The times they are a changing .. ASK .. you might get through and meet somebody at the same time ..

[frenchbar]

I know the fellas I'm talking to say the Chilly Cootins guides have hunts for Europeans from Germany that want to hunt traditionally like the natives did back when the bow and arrows were used. So they pay big for the specialty hunts.
Bow and Arrow at close range on a rutting Canadian bull moose called in by an Indian scout as he sits twenty yards back of you as the bull comes walking in swaying his massive rack back and forth slowly moving the heavy bone.
So they do have traditional hunting methods for others to live the dream of the early west of Canucklesville.
Jel .. Who yah going to call .. ?!!? .. Tell em Jelly sent yah .. who what .. from Kammy Region 3 .. Thompson Rivers
Shuswap country the guy with the mullet . Big dude looks like he works out everyday . My cousin Rocco .. oh yah go4it
and have a great hunt, NEXT!
bahahahahaha ..your the best jelly lol

[Ambush]

I have a two week hunt planned in reg. 5, and I will be hunting.

If the government steps in and prevents me from participating in my rightfull and lawfull hunt, then they can pay to take me on a guided hunt for the my target species elsewhere. THIS season!!

[scoutlt1]

It's a she mozzle boys, no one will come forth and make a stand against the stand. I would phone the closest Chief of the band where you got a valid leh moose tag. If you can. If you can't get through, ask for the game dept of the band.
Talk and ask. Maybe try on an I-Phone after you introduce yourself and ask if there would be a resistance up there if you just drove in to hunt a legal BC moose.
He could be nice and friendly or cool and reserved. Gotta try to find out. Might be a female Chief .. Women are more popular for Chiefs now when the votes are counted.
Jel .. The times they are a changing .. ASK .. you might get through and meet somebody at the same time ..


I would give my left arm...nope..right nut...ummm...nope...dog? truck? first born?....nope....ahhh...how about my first ex's left arm...ok!....to sit around a fire with you for an evening! lol :-)

[frenchbar]

I would give my left arm...nope..right nut...ummm...nope...dog? truck? first born?....nope....ahhh...how about my first ex's left arm...ok!....to sit around a fire with you for an evening! lol :-)

and knock back shots of tequila ..would be interesting .lol

[Banjo]

Original post says all if region 5 but the map just shows a part of it. Did i miss something?

[scoutlt1]

and knock back shots of tequila ..would be interesting .lol

Ya, there's a chance alcohol would be involved! :lol:
of course I mean that in a nice way Jel! ;-)

Would be a nite to remember though!...when's that Kammy get-together planned anyways hey Jelvis?? :-)

[scoutlt1]

Original post says all if region 5 but the map just shows a part of it. Did i miss something?

Check out the link my friend...all or part of 5...doesn't matter..it's the thought that counts!

[Banjo]

Check out the link my friend...all or part of 5...doesn't matter..it's the thought that counts!

Saw the link....and the map. How else would i know? Just checkin

[finngun]

jel---Gotta try to find out. Might be a female Chief .. Women are more popular for Chiefs now when the votes are counted.///

if chiefher is over 300lb you jel are the one WHO is gonna be in real trouble...:shock::-P

[Moose Guide]

This just reeks GOABC, you can put money on that! K

Are you serious? Why would they endorse an action that would hurt all their non native members?

[scoutlt1]

All about power, $$$$, and politics....nothing more, nothing less.

I am working on getting some time off this coming week to drive up and have a meeting with someone at the CO office in WL, and maybe meet with someone with the TGO.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

As crappy as this sounds, let's hope something positive will come out of it. Maybe this will force the issue into the spotlight about how important predator managment has become in the province and much of the west.
The politicians need to "grow a set" when it comes to this topic.

Bottom line is that we need to make more moose. Then everyone will be happy.

SSS

[srupp]

I know one off the band councillors that has her name on the document..known her for a long time i will ask her nicely and will pass along her reply..

steven

[Moose Guide]

hmmm Jelly they aint guiding no Europeans..they are taking shyt loads of moose some gets ate some gets sold..at the bars etc.. a good road block at Sheep Creek Bridge??

If anyone wants the correct conservation officer..the TOP guy locally for the entire region is named LEN...a stand up guy...any one else is just standard C/O..

steven

Len used to work out of Nelson, we were sorry to see him go!!! Best CO I have ever met!

[srupp]

hmmm yes probably the same guy...he is from that area....like I said he's stand up guy...Im sure he has superiors also but he is in charge here and having talked with him several times I like him..and feel he's honest

cheers

SRUPP

[RENO]

Yup, it would be very interesting if 80,000 licensed hunters all showed up at the blockade wearing camo and carrying signs! Who is in? hahaha

I think all hunters should buy a moose tag and all show up there for the first annual Moose hunt and jamboree . who is going to stop that many legal hunters? If the Gov had balls they should cut all funding, and let's start playing hardball, enful BS.

[Jelvis]

You people with Valid tag for leh moose have a provincial right to hunt the code that you won in the computer.
No one should be allowed to stop a valid tag moose hunter from what he won paying for the chance to win. Period!
That said is ideally, but when many people are involved you find out it's not a perfect world.
You drive down to Raven for your valid area and see a legal moose off the road. BAM!
Now maybe if your trying to hunt deer, you dint git a dang moose leh try another good deer area so to get some rest and relaxation. It's up to each individual driving back into moose country. What they will do when or IF a big IF they come to a little road block, a length of yellow tape across the road tied around a piece of fire wood on each side of the road.
You could break on through by driving through the thin yellow tape not even damaging your truck.
Jelly .. .. I hunt 3 .. and so far no blocks here.
5 has always been about cowboys and indians so I'm out .. Dragon's Den .. We're in the Jungle baby .. Shark Tank 2
If I had a valid leh BC moose tag for an area in 5 --- I would try to hunt there I wouldn't be afraid to go in ..

[warnniklz]

Dn't have much to say on the issue other than I know I can get to my moose area with no problem.

[scoutlt1]

Jelly my friend, I pay taxes, buy tags for, and have lived in many areas of this wonderful province.
I DO care where and for what I can hunt for.
I won't stand by while those with an agenda that is based on money, greed, and politics try and stop me from hunting in a specific area.
This is a blatant and direct attack on hunters, and hunter's rights....and I have had enough!!
It's not about racism, or politics, or whatever....it's about, as I've said before, right and wrong.
Enough is enough....seriously!!!

[srupp]

Dn't have much to say on the issue other than I know I can get to my moose area with no problem.

hmm the plan is to help everyone who were successfully drawn for a coveted moose tag in the cariboo chilcotin to try to get their moose, and have a safe and enjoyable time..not worried about what ifs, vandalism, threats,govt incompetence..and yes some of US..know the area so well that some 19 year old native isnt going to really be a problem..but not everone is so blessed..IF this was in the kootenays and you didnt know the area..you would be concerned that that hard won LEH tag is gonna be pissed away..and you also would be upset..

it never was about "me" it should always be about US...and IF I can help some that get a LEH be safe and enjoy a great hunt and not get hurt or vandalized Im there...

cheers

St

[Jelvis]

It's like Ali the heavy weight champion boxer said," I beat the guy silly in the centre of the ring, because if you push the chump into the corner he becomes like a cat and starts to fight his way out, I bang and hang em in the center.
If you do encounter an Indian road block, slow down immediately from any excess speed, come to a slow full stop.
People are people first, use mutual respect for another human being. Carry on a conversation without yelling or pointing or flying any digits lol. The salute! No let's talk.
Maybe hand you a paper to read and say thanks for stoppin hunter at least we both agree hunting is addicting.
Good luck you don't want to be a Veggy Terry On. Indian words for piss poor hunter Cowboy .. Kid Rock ..

[RENO]

The Gov controls all the hunting and areas and manages the animal numbers in the province. The regs show region 5 and it is an open hunting area, if they thought the moose numbers were down I am sure they would have closed an area themselves, no hunting area map in the regs and no Leh's would have been issued for the area, none of this happened so I would say all is good and legal. This letter and action is all BS, the law is on your side, if you are legal and have all legal docs, I wouldn't worry , what are they going to arrest you for legal hunting in a legal open area? I'd like to see that, a good lawyer would have a field day with that one.

[The Dawg]

http://postmediaottawacitizen.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/0211.air_cf-18_launches_paveway_2006_test_lg.jpg

[Jelvis]

Some posters on this fine website have been crying for years about no moose in 5, wolves and the locals and on and on, so somebody finally heard you and started to believe in your theory. No moose in 5 they said, none where they used to see seven moose a season before and the next year they only seen one.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

This just reeks GOABC, you can put money on that! K

That is one stupid comment, the GOABC has nothing to do with this.
Most of the guide in this area in question
are white guys who have been hunting there for years. This affect them the most.

[BearStump]

Ooooooooh thank god my draw is for 5-2b, a few miles fromm "their" moose. I wouldnt want to kill one of "their" indian moose. It'd be nice if my camper was'nt burnt when I came back from a day of hunting too.

[Jelvis]

I can't imagine the guides and outfitters in B.C. being tangled up with this one issue in a negative way, in this particular spot. As an interested group I could see it, of course they follow any new issue that involve guides and outfitters through out this big game country in all of B.C.
This is about all user groups getting together and voicing a concern over misunderstandings and unfair practices.
All should be allowed to hunt any area except on private land, all Crown should be access able to all users.

[srupp]

..NOPE this aint GOABC...

[Islandbowhunter]

The Gov controls all the hunting and areas and manages the animal numbers in the province. The regs show region 5 and it is an open hunting area, if they thought the moose numbers were down I am sure they would have closed an area themselves, no hunting area map in the regs and no Leh's would have been issued for the area, none of this happened so I would say all is good and legal. This letter and action is all BS, the law is on your side, if you are legal and have all legal docs, I wouldn't worry , what are they going to arrest you for legal hunting in a legal open area? I'd like to see that, a good lawyer would have a field day with that one.

You wouldn't be arrested for legal hunting in an open area...but for the reaction that this type of illegal blockade may incite in non-natives trying to legally access their legal hunts. Then who will be treated as a criminal?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

The bottom line in Region 5 is the moose count is way down!! up to 60 % in some areas.
The weird thing is that the bull count is high in some cases 70 bulls to 100 cows which is way out of wack . The problem is the FN cow killing. This is fact! the biologist know this and are trying to educate the tribes. We know this won't work but all we can do is try. The MOE is now on damage control trying to maintain the moose #'s. In the worst areas, if all moose where saved including FN harvest, white guys and preditor kills it would take 8 years recover. Thats is nuts. Cow harvest is the key. That is strange as not one white guy can legally kill a cow, go figure????

[chilcotin hillbilly]

This needs the GOABC and the BCWF to get together and settle this once and for all. Time to sue the government and get back our rights as BC residents.

[Jagermeister]

"You woke up this morning
Got yourself a gun,
Mama always said you'd be
The Chosen One............"
From Soprano theme song.
So who is volunteering?

What measures can we take?

Blockade preventing INDIANs from coming to town seems like a action that would work. Problem is that it takes manpower to make an effective substanable blockade. Since the Indian have the manpower readily available, we can write a counter blockade off. Of course, if you happen to work in the service industry in the area, you don't have to "hop to" if waiting on them. Especially at the liquor store.

With a blockade out of the question, we have to examine what other recourses are available to us. Three come to mind.

First, make your MP and MLA know how displeased your are with unlawful declaration. (Not that it matters to a dead horse MLA like Kevin Krueger or any more of his ilk.) In your discussion with your MP, make a demand that all transfer payments made by the government to the Chilcotin band be rescinded immediately. YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR TAX DOLLARS GOING TO A GROUP THAT ARE ACTING IN A DETRIMENTAL MANNER TO YOUR LIBERTIES AS OUTLINED IN THE CANADIAN CONSTITUTION.
Also, under the Allocation Agreement, I was under the impression that the guide and outfitters would be the first to be affected by a reduction of harvest (closure). And that would include all G/O, regardless whether Indian or White owned.

Second. To get our concerns heard loud and clear, we have to band together to become an effective force with a strong voice. The only means that we have at hand is the BCWF. If there ever was a time for you to join, that time would be now. Preferrably through an affililated local fish and game club, but if you must, you can buy a direct membership and fully participate by attending regional meetings when they occur. It is imperative that this action happen immediately and it is imperative that local fish and game clubs convene special meetings to address this tantamount and heinous declaration by the Chilcotin band.

Third. We have to go viral and get the word out that the Indian owned guide/outfitter be boycotted. If you are a member of other hunting forums, particularly in the US, you want to post this to those sites.

This is the first salvo in a skirmish that is starting to reveal itself. THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED THOUGHT LINE PRESENTED BY ONE INDIAN BAND. YOU CAN BET YOUR ASS THAT THERE ARE OTHERS JUST WAITING TO POUNCE. THE KIB COME TO MIND.

I reiterate, our best hand will be dealt through the BCWF. The only organization that speaks for the non indian hunters. We have to give it the mandate with teeth by increasing membership numbers and active participation, monetarily along with body and soul.

We do not want the $$$$ cash flow to appease the Indians, if anything, we want them to lose their government money allocations as they receive them now. Cut them off at the ankles so to speak.

Before I forget, this quote appears to be from Eric Collier's book, Three Against the Wilderness,

Re: No moose hunting in Area 5


"An Indian named Moleese killed a moose at Indian Meadow in the fall of 1916. He didn't know what this huge beast was but figured it might be good to eat. Afraid to taste the meat, he cut out the tongue and lips and galloped off to his tribe to talk to his friends. The rest of the tribe was excited, too, and a dozen men accompanied him with pack horses back to the kill to bring in the meat, head and horns. But no one knew what the big mowich was, not even the Old One who had lived for over a hundred years."

I haven't verified the source, but a quick Google search found this page. Scroll down a bit:


And that's the way I see it.

[The Dude]

Funny how there's nothing on their website about this.....all I've seen is the one link to a PDF. http://www.tsilhqotin.ca/contact.htm
Also, nothing in the news or on residentpriority.ca

[Jelvis]

Eggz Act Lee .. It's reactions and come backs, your heading in to Raven and your stoked beyond belief with a Valid LEH Moose your bestest hunting partner all worked up for tomorrows moose hunt and then Wham!
A road block, wtf. Now it's from this time on, that will make it or break it for all involved.
Your reaction to this downer coming up on the road ahead.
Think what is the best way to come to a stop, and then listen to your mature mind and follow through as a mature, and a responsible human being hunting in B.C. as a resident. Talk calmly and clear, listen to what the person says, then reply accordingly.
You are not in the wrong, you belong, keep it short and carry on.
Jel ( Be Solid ) Be a human being .. and Keep Truckin .. Strut yer Stuff don't be a Stiff! .. Stand Up for your Rights
I do, Hey man, I got the rights to hunt here just like you .. I live in B.C. too .. all my life so I'm going to hunt
I'm on a public FSR and I'm the public, matter of fact Public Enemy Number 1 .. use some humor ..

[The Dude]

Jager.....you can borrow my hunting rig this fall:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/Forum%20Ammo/Madmax.jpg

[RENO]

Then all species numbers harvested must be counted, if only non FN numbers are counted who knows or how can a correct figure be established on population for a region? who then can say numbers are down and by how much it is just speculation. I think MOE can come up with a better plan than that!
both side have to contribute correct numbers harvested to say, this or that is happening in a given region for a species.

[Bear Chaser]

Funny how there's nothing on their website about this.....all I've seen is the one link to a PDF. http://www.tsilhqotin.ca/contact.htm
Also, nothing in the news or on residentpriority.ca

Wow. 112 posts before somebody brings up Resident Priority and what is being done about the problem. Hopefully some of the guys getting riled up and urging some stern letters to their local representative actually donated some money to the resident priority fund to pay for lobbying on their behalf.
Indian unrest has been getting bandied about as a potentially larger problem than the GOABC for years.Nobody here should be surprised by any of this.

[Jelvis]

Know one knows where all the moose go, I asked my friends and nobody knows, who am I to believe the numbers, whoa hoh hoe ho. There down by the lakes.
Jelly ( White Snake ) Who knows where the bull moose goe's?

[Sleep Robber]

With the season not too far away, I just told the ol'lady what I'd like for my B-Day, a kevlar vest in a camo/colorway, an extra box of shells and a pack or two of Clint Eastwood cigars. Roadblock Smoadblock, a hunting I will go.

[The Dude]

Know one knows where all the moose go, I asked my friends and nobody knows, who am I to believe the numbers, whoa hoh hoe ho. There down by the lakes.
Jelly ( White Snake ) Who knows where the bull moose goe's?


http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/Forum%20Ammo/SmokinBro.jpg

[Jelvis]

Smoooooooke on the wahhhhhhhhhh ter .. and fire in the sky heeee.

[scoutlt1]

Smoooooooke on the wahhhhhhhhhh ter .. and fire in the sky heeee.

Figured.... :smile:

[kwasky]

The bottom line in Region 5 is the moose count is way down!! up to 60 % in some areas.
The weird thing is that the bull count is high in some cases 70 bulls to 100 cows which is way out of wack . The problem is the FN cow killing. This is fact! the biologist know this and are trying to educate the tribes. We know this won't work but all we can do is try. The MOE is now on damage control trying to maintain the moose #'s. In the worst areas, if all moose where saved including FN harvest, white guys and preditor kills it would take 8 years recover. Thats is nuts. Cow harvest is the key. That is strange as not one white guy can legally kill a cow, go figure????

i couldnt agree more. last year i was hunting bear in the beginning of june and a friend of mine came along and brought one of his native friends. He stayed in my truck for about 5 minutes until i turned back and told him to get out of my truck. He was insisting that if we saw any moose being cow calf bull whatever that he was going to shoot it. We were in my truck using my fuel and i was going bear hunting and he started getting mad at me when I told him there was no way in hell that i would stop or have anything to do with him shooting a moose. Blew my mind how he thought shooting any moose he saw was ok to do.

[srupp]

hmmm the document was e-mailed to me this am..it is not on their site or any other site that I could find..however the names signed are those on the band council and the one I personally know for decades..and I recognize her signiture..I am due for kidney surgery in Vancouver gen Hosp on Tuesday however I will do my best to contact the band council member I know and ask her whats up??HOWEVER the news has been in the local media just not the entire document..

I also will attempt to contact C/O supervisor Len..

The moose #s are down..however the harvest #s by LEH are known by ministry staff...as are the moose 'counts/estimations" some harvest #s are not known..

There have been roadblocks in this area before for the same reason..never before was mention of escorting non natives out and the implications of those words..I will check regarding the documents authenticity...and remember even IF (I think it is legit document) its legit its one sides demands...

steven

[Brambles]

Who yah going to call .. ?!!? .. Tell em Jelly sent yah .. who what .. from Kammy Region 3 .. Thompson Rivers
Shuswap country the guy with the mullet . Big dude looks like he works out everyday . My cousin Rocco .. oh yah go4it
and have a great hunt, NEXT!


You mean the geek who gets sand kicked in his face at the bus stop and crys on HBC about it???? Yeah real tough guy there Jelly....

[coach]

This needs the GOABC and the BCWF to get together and settle this once and for all.

Couldn't agree more. Time to get out collective shit together!

[sobirch]

Lotta roads out there, could be a case of too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. If they do block roads they may as well tell all the hunters for years to come that these are their honey holes and moose hotspots and are worth scouting out for hunting once the dust settles, can't see them blocking a road where the moose numbers are low.

[RENO]

Couldn't agree more. Time to get out collective shit together!
x2........

[srupp]

hmm even with only5 -7 rds 'deactivated" or/and blockaded..this would cut a huge area out of quality moose areas that hunters drew legit LEH'S in...they certainly have the #s for that type of ops...AND Im sure that neigbouring or other bands would be on board to ensure the success...

steven

[billjc33]

This is unbelievable! They say they are going to physically remove resident hunters because their territories moose numbers are down but they will allow americans and germans to come kill moose because they profit from it?

I have a moose draw in region 5 looks like I'm going to have to set up some trail cameras around my camp this year.

The stupidest part of this whole thing(previously brought up) is that the moose didn't move into this region until long after the european settlers had been here. Moose hunting is not even a traditional means of survival for the natives in the interior. So sick of this stuff.

And the worst part about this is the gov't, RCMP and C/O's will do absolutely nothing about this. All they will do is monitor the situation and ask people to stay away. This is exactly what the natives want. Maybe by Oct 15th the RCMP will miraculously clear up the situation when the rut is over all the indians had a hay day in the bush and you will get 15 days to hunt.

Resident hunters out number these band members by a large margin might be time to get together and push our weight around a little and send a thousand people into that area in one day hunting deer!

[boxhitch]

Interesting boundary on the map supplied too.
Does that north line follow a road ? Not a river or a height of land.

[LYKTOHUNT]

I predict a sudden increase in the sale of short barreled DEFENCE type shotguns and trail cams

[fowl language]

as i see it this is where we have to band together and let the govt know we are serious about this matter and they had better do something about these road blocks such as do their job or there will be consequences, in a manner that they don,t want. if any of you agree please post,if not just let em have the provincial hunting altogether.it,s time to stand up and be counted,, or sell your hunting stuff for what you can get for it....my 2 cents....dale

[416]

as i see it this is where we have to band together and let the govt know we are serious about this matter and they had better do something about these road blocks such as do their job or there will be consequences, in a manner that they don,t want. if any of you agree please post,if not just let em have the provincial hunting altogether.it,s time to stand up and be counted,, or sell your hunting stuff for what you can get for it....my 2 cents....dale

Done deal.......don't expect much from the limp wristed idiots in Victoria but at least if we all express our concerns, they are on notice if events go side ways......

[pnbrock]

how do we organize this Dale who will lead the charge.?what can i do ?

[Foxton Gundogs]

as i see it this is where we have to band together and let the govt know we are serious about this matter and they had better do something about these road blocks such as do their job or there will be consequences, in a manner that they don,t want. if any of you agree please post,if not just let em have the provincial hunting altogether.it,s time to stand up and be counted,, or sell your hunting stuff for what you can get for it....my 2 cents....dale


Worth a whole lot more than 2 cents, right on dale lets all get on side and as the TV ad says "JUST DO IT"!!!!!!

[Wild one]

If you have a good plan I may be able to add support

[Islandbowhunter]

As I understand it takes only 25 signatures on a petition to have something read in the House of Commons.

Need original signatures on a document. If each of us writes up a petition and gets 25 hunters to sign it we could have a voice heard (at least heard) in the House of Commons.

http://www.jeancrowder.ca/petitions

[Islandbowhunter]

JEAN CROWDER, MP NANAIMO-COWICHAN
ROOM 650D CENTRE BLOCK,
HOUSE OF COMMONS
OTTAWA, ON K1A 0A6
TELEPHONE: (613) 943-2180 FAX: (613) 993-5577
Creating and Submitting a Petition to Parliament
The following will provide you with guidelines on how to submit a petition to the House of Commons. A petition must be addressed to one of the following:
• the House of Commons;
• the House of Commons in Parliament assembled;
• the Government of Canada;
• a Minister of the Crown; or
• a Member of the House of Commons.
It must contain a request for the addressee to take some action (or refrain from taking some action) to remedy a grievance. A petition may also include a more detailed description of the grievance and/or a statement of opinion. However, a statement of grievance or opinion alone cannot be received as a petition. A petition must concern a subject within the authority of the Parliament of Canada, the House of Commons or the Government of Canada (the petition must address an issue with federal jurisdiction).
 The request should be clear and to the point.
 The petition must not demand or insist that the addressee do something.
 The petition may include a return address.
The text of a petition must be handwritten, typed, printed or photocopied on sheets of paper of usual size, i.e. measuring 21.5 cm x 28 cm (8 1/2 x 11 inches) or 21.5 cm x 35.5 cm (8 1/2 x 14 inches). A petition submitted on paper of irregular size, or on any other material, is not acceptable.
 A petition must be free of any other matter attached or appended to or written or printed on the petition.
 If a petition is composed of more than one sheet of signatures and addresses, the subject-matter of the petition must be indicated on every sheet. The address may either be the petitioner’s full home address, or the city and province, or the province and postal code.
 A petition must contain original signatures written directly on the document and not pasted, taped, photocopied or otherwise transferred to it.
 There should be no disrespect shown to the Sovereign or charge made against the character or conduct of Parliament, the courts or any other duly constituted authority.
A petition must contain a minimum of 25 valid signatures with addresses. A petition should contain signatures of residents of Canada only. There is no minimum age requirement for anyone signing a petition.
Members of the public who wish to petition the House of Commons on a matter of public interest are advised to first submit a draft petition (without signatures) to a Member of Parliament for review.
Petitioners cannot directly petition the House of Commons. Only a Member of Parliament can present a petition to the House. The petitioners must send their petition to a Member with a request to present it.
Before a Member can present a petition in the House, the rules of the House of Commons require that it must first be certified correct as to form and content.
Once we have received your properly formatted petition, we will have it certified by the House of Commons and Jean can have it tabled!
Thank you for participating in our democratic processes! Please send all completed petitions to (no postage required):
Jean Crowder, MP
650D Centre Block, House of Commons
Ottawa, ON K1A 0A6

[Islandbowhunter]

MP Finder: http://www.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compilations/HouseOfCommons/MemberByPostalCode.aspx?Menu=HOC

[.330 Dakota]

Bring in the army and clear them out,,,thats the way to show them whos really in charge here.
If we...the white man, blocked roads and threatened violence,,thats what the govt would do..
So why are they treated any different?????

[MuleyMadness]

The funniest part about a very unfunny situation for me is quite simple...if they are planning on deactivating roads, they are just cutting their own throats...when was the last time ANY of you saw an indian shoot a moose from anywhere but a road, with (often HID lights) easy access to their winches and trucks. That would require work!

Personally we (we as in all British Columbians) have a RIGHT by LAW to legal access to these land and legal hunting in the area. That is OUR land. This is a right I'm willing to fight to maintain, by whatever means necessary. 'They' have already lost one war, not so sure about the wisdom in starting another one.

[r106]

Talk to your local hunting/fishing/gun store. get them to have the petition there, province wide that would be a lot of petitions. IMHO leave the BCWF out of it. With the petition coming directly from us it might carry more weight, make them listen to the BCWF

[.330 Dakota]

The funniest part about a very unfunny situation for me is quite simple...if they are planning on deactivating roads, they are just cutting their own throats...when was the last time ANY of you saw an indian shoot a moose from anywhere but a road, with (often HID lights) easy access to their winches and trucks. That would require work!

Personally we (we as in all British Columbians) have a RIGHT by LAW to legal access to these land and legal hunting in the area. That is OUR land. This is a right I'm willing to fight to maintain, by whatever means necessary. 'They' have already lost one war, not so sure about the wisdom in starting another one.

x2.........................

[325]

The funniest part about a very unfunny situation for me is quite simple...if they are planning on deactivating roads, they are just cutting their own throats...when was the last time ANY of you saw an indian shoot a moose from anywhere but a road, with (often HID lights) easy access to their winches and trucks. That would require work!

Personally we (we as in all British Columbians) have a RIGHT by LAW to legal access to these land and legal hunting in the area. That is OUR land. This is a right I'm willing to fight to maintain, by whatever means necessary. 'They' have already lost one war, not so sure about the wisdom in starting another one.

x3!
I'm going to talk with my MLA about this horseshit!

[panhead]

Was up fishing at Palmer lake a number of years ago when these guy's set up a roadblock at Raven lake. As we were already in fishing a buck showed up at the campsite with an official looking "security" jacket on and told us all we had 10 hours to "get out." As he was "explaining this to me a gunshot was heard and he quickly ran and hid behind a tree. Was expecting trouble I guess. Anyhoo everyone left and as we went through the roadblock at Raven saw lots of people and beer. Looked like a party to me. Was told later that the blockade ended on the next welfare wednesday.

[pipebrent]

I am planning on harvesting 2- bull moose in 5-13 come september,it took me to long of putting in for LEH to be worried about some bucketheads stopping it.It is nothing a case of whiskey and some doritos to distract won't Fix
Maybe i can trade 2- moose draws for 5-13 for 2- vancouver island elk draws

[NORTHERN HUNTER]

Those Chilcotins are known for the stand they take, they are some protective and culturally proud people.
Sounds like they want their own guides to have the country to hunt. And some money for predator control from MOE.
I met a couple fellas from up there on a course in Kamloops, and they told me about this mountain that when people look at it at certain times, they can have major problems. One of the guys was hitting a sand filled heavy bag with bare knuckles with heavy shots, most people would smash their bones in the wrist and hand. Six foot 3 and over 200.
He told me about some history up there with different times and people and I couldn't believe his strong opinions and pride.
There is a mountain in this region that they can not look at or will have bad things happen. Anyone know the name of the mountain and when not to look? I should have remembered but it was in 1999.
Jel .. I don't know what's going to happen .. I heard a few things on tv about road blocks and railroad blocks coming.
New AFN elections on July 18th federally so we'll see soon who wins out of six candidates. Might change things.

The mountain is called Ts'yl-os (Native name) Or Mount Tatlow. And it is a bad omen to point at it (never heard anything about just looking at it) and the story goes that it has been cursed by a woman who lost her husband while he was hunting in the mountain and now if you point at it you will be cursed with bad luck as well foul weather will envelope the region.

[digger dogger]

It's a shame that in this one Country, we have two seperate laws. This is how civil wars can start!
A person has to wonder, is the government doing this type of "look the other way" routine, so non natives eventually stand up for our rights.

I call shenanigans on the whole subject.. :-)

[Sleep Robber]

It is nothing a case of whiskey and some doritos to distract won't Fix


This is uncalled for IMO.

[scoutlt1]

I sure hope that we can keep this thread open for some constructive dialogue on how we will fight for continued access to some wonderful hunting grounds, and how we will protect basic rights that we should all be entitled to....and not have it turn into a racially motivated s***show.

[srupp]

hmmm morning lads and ladies..I will contact the band tommorrow and see if the document is legit and some sense on whats expected and whats expected if non native hunters tell the "enforcers" that attempt to politely escort non natives out to pound sand.... then what??
will attempt to contact LEN head of C/O...and drop a copy of the mandate off with Donna ..local liberal..and a copy @ Chilcotin guns..

get the info out there..

cheers
Steven

[ufishifish2]

What a relief. My group is drawn for 5-13C which, if I am reading the map correctly, is just outside of the bull$hit zone.

[srupp]

oh also anyone getting a draw I will attempt to help as many as possible with some of the lesser known rds..and moose hangouts..

one piece of CAUTION IF you drew the tag and GO...MAKE YOUR CAMP WHERE IT IS READILY SEEN..do not try and hide it where anyone can leave the main rd and walk in potentialy vandalize and then sneak out ..IF the camps are seen from main rds it may cause a second thought about being seen and documented...trail cams may be a bonus if no one is in camp??

cheers
Steven

[Islandbowhunter]

If we all took ten minutes to hand-write a simple letter to our MP's, we would get critical mass. This would be in addition to petitions. I've already begun drafting, here's some tips from the net:

Letter Writing Tips

Write the letter by hand, in your own words (this makes it more personal).
Be polite.
Keep your letter short—focus on one issue per letter.
Use point form/bullets to highlight your arguments.
Include supporting facts and details to back up your case.
Ask the MP/MLA to do something specific in response.
Sign your letter personally.
Ask for a reply.

Example Letter


Your Name
Address
City, Province
Postal Code
Phone Number

MP/MLAs Name
(Current Date)

Dear Mr/Mrs. (___MP/MLA First and Last Name___),

I am concerned about __________ (summarize just one issue per letter) _______________.

This affects me (and my community) because ___(summary of how it affects you—include details and evidence)__________________________.

I would be grateful if you could ____(detail the actions that you would like the MP/ MLA to take: raise the issue in parliament, vote to pass a specific bill, etc…)____________________.

Thank you for taking the time to look into this—I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Your Name

Your Signature

[Islandbowhunter]

This will be won or lost by politicking...

[Robin of loxley]

Islandbowhunter, mpotzold, srupp ( and a few others).

Thank you for all of your research, and efforts to keep this thread on topic. I commend you guys because you don't choose fight over issues like children in a sandbox (even when things do go red).

I have hunted my whole life in 5-4 for moose, deer, bear, and goat. Emotions run very high reading this thread for both my brother and I, and also for the future generations with whom we wish to share it . It seems that we (the responsible and ethical hunters) have uncovered many points of discussion to bring up with our MP/MLA's.

If you are reading this and want to make a difference then please take example from some of our senior members.

[Spy]

Lawrence Elkins is one of many guides in the area ! I wonder if any of the non Tsilhqot`in guides will be allowed to hunt their territories in region 5 !
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/non_resident/docs/maps/webmaps_cariboo.pdf

[Glenny]

well ive got a draw for 5-2d and i fully intend on filling it.

They can block all the main roads going into that area all they want. There are tons of ways in there. Good luck natives. I will show off my moose to them on the way out. lol

[Jagermeister]

as i see it this is where
we have to band together and let the govt know we are serious about this matter and they had better do something about these road blocks such as do their job or there will be consequences, in a manner that they don,t want. if any of you agree please post,if not just let em have the provincial hunting altogether
.it,s time to stand up and be counted,, or sell your hunting stuff for what you can get for it....my 2 cents....dale
I have just returned from a Shuswap Region 3 Meeting.

The meeting was convened over the failure of a resolution concerning an access fund at the last BCWF AGM. Also in attendance were Bill Bosch, BCWF President; George Wilson, Access Chairman; and Al Martin, Director of Strategic Initiatives.

Region 3 was extremely disappointed with the disposition of the motion and sought to seek clarification on any improprieties that seem to have occurred in the handling of the resolution. The resolution was called the "Access Fund" and the intent was to levie a per capita increase to the dues in the amount of $2.00.

Oddly, this disclosure by the Chilcotin indians to exclude non-Chilcotin from hunting should coincide with our regional meeting. Here we were on the eve or verge set to discuss an issue that goes in hand with the need for the "Access Fund". Ironic is all I can say.

The first case was to be a lawsuit against the Douglas Lake Cattle Company (DLC) for blocking public access roads to Stony and Minnie Lakes.
A lot of you will look at this and say, "So what, let them have the lakes."

If you cave in on this, you might as well cave in the the Indians wherever they deem to exclude you from. You might as well cave in to the BC Cattlemens Association, the forest companies, the mining companies because they are waiting in the wings for legislation to pass in the fall sitting that is going to make access to crown land a thing of the past.

Alarmist sounding? It is and it is on the verge of coming to you, full bore.

Fowl language makes some really good points. I posted quotes around those and I want you to pay close attention to them.
He says that we have to band together. He is absolutely right, we have to band together and the only vialble means is to get behind the BCWF. Beaking off on here will have no effect on the outcome. You now have to pony up money to save your hunting and fishing. Or as Fowl language says, ".....sell your hunting stuff for what you can get for it."
We discussed this at the regional meeting and since we had Bill Bosch, George Wilson and Al Martin attending, the BCWF is apprised of the situation including the Chilcotin's perposterous manifesto.

This not only affects the hunters and fishers, it affects everyone that wants to access the backcountry, including ATVers, berry pickers, hikers and climbers. You just name an activity that takes you outdoors beyond the blacktop and this will come to affect those activities.

Please buy a BCWF membership, through a club or direct. Go to the BCWF website and make a cash donation and state it is to be used solely for access issues. Just do it.

And just so you know, I put my money where my mouth is. , I made a $100 commitment to the Nicola Valley Fish and Game Club legal fund to take on the DLC. What will you commit for the preservation of your hunting and fishing opportunities and those of your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren?

[Jagermeister]

I forgot, do tell your MP and your MLA at your distress over the recent revelations. Tell them you have had enough of the bullshit that Indians and others are trying to foist off on you.

[RENO]

Thanks Jager, was just thinking? Can we not organize a rally in Victoria, to get Political and News attention to these matters concerning all the out of door activities, everyone else seems to do this, from teachers to rights groups and I have never seen or heard sportsmen/women organize anything like this. I do not have a moose draw/or neither hunt in reg 5 but for my fellow hunters who do and enjoy this area , and all the areas of BC we need to organize something like this and show that we are many and we have rights to as Canadian Citizens, I have been a member of the BCWF for years and never seen them organize anything like this either, we either do something or we are just going to look like a bunch of push overs and take it in the teeth all the time.
Hunting and fishing,atving and the rest brings in allot of $ to this province and creates allot of jobs in BC, and puts food and pays bills for many. I think a letter to BCWF stating a rally in Victoria and with a healthy show from concerned sporting citizens, we to can make it know in a peaceful manner that there is situations that need addressing. my thoughts Thanks.

[LYKTOHUNT]

I want to thank to those that have put forward reasonable and intellegent response to this very serious situation and if what it takes is to write letters than that is what I will do, however at this point I will be going hunting, even if it means leaving one person to gaurd camp. My wife and daughter who are first time hunters along with a good friends son drew tags for this region, it would be a real shame if I chose to keep my wife and daughter out of possible danger, I will decide that when the time comes.
Some have said keep race out of this discussion but I fail to see how we can when it is all about a race of people that are clearly going against the law.
I believe the RCMP will be involved however I think they do not have the will to protect what is lawfully ours and instead of protecting our rights will chose to turn back lawfull hunters and support the criminal actions of a minority that is bent on breaking the law for not the agenda that they are putting forth.
I agree that from my findings ( unscientific but personal observation ) moose numbers are down from wolf predation but also from these same people that propose to stop legal hunters due to their own hunting practices.
I can accept biologists with science based data telling us moose hunting is not sustainable at current levels and they have in some areas with lower allocations and therefore albeit maybe sadly accept their findings.
I hope this does not come down to a war in the woods but most of us have relatives that have stood up for their rights and laws of their country before, maybe for a more serious situation but never the less something that is our lawfull right, I hope no one gets hurt in this situation as a moose is not worth it but the principals are, and once the law breakers get away with it ,where will it end.

[TRIPALM]

same problem the island is having year round traditional hunting pressure ,restricted access accept for traditional hunting ,24 hrs a day ,finding unborn calfs in the gut pile in the spring ,not proper wildlife managment by any means ,saw unborn moose calfs in gut piles in the cariboo while cat hunting once ,and also found wasted animals hinds and back strap removed ,such a waste and many of us wait years at a chance draw to harvest such a big game animal

[fuzzybiscuit]

Must...not...touch...keyboard...

[RENO]

Must...not...touch...keyboard...

Don't do it! Walk Away quickly!

[Jagermeister]

I like your idea RENO, however, it is not quite time for that. More cards have to be revealed.

Remember Gustafson Lake? It will take that kind of confrontation to get any reaction out of the RCMP and that might not be in our best interests. Like always, I expect the RCMP to molly-coddle and acquiesce to the Indians. Indians are never accountable for their actions as demonstrated in this province and Ontario.

Indians are not the only part of the equation. The BC Cattlemens Association are just as culpable as any as indicated in this excerpt on page 47 of the current hunting synopsis.


Before you go hunting, please ensure that you have permissionto cross over OR hunt on private land. If you wish to hunt onleased Crown land, including grazing leases, even if no livestockare present, permission is still required from the lease holder
(the Wildlife Act, Land Act and Trespass Act may all apply).

Note that it states even if no livestock are present. That is a hugh onus on you to gain access to Crown land, something that we, the citizens own.

Read and become familiar with the Resource Road Act, it to has serious ramifications concerning backcountry access or lack of access. If this Act reaches the legislature in the fall and passes, we are going to have an insurmountable obstacle to overcome to gain the rights that we enjoy today. Forest companies, mining companies, cattleranchers and others are waiting with bated breath for the gavel to fall on it's final reading. We do not have much time to convince our MLAs to kill it and some of our MLAs are lame ducks not running in the next election. They will be influenced at the trough with cushy appointments in the corporate tower so that they can double dip with their hefty pensions.

Letter writing is good, but it will take money too. Those hunters that only buy licences, tag and the ancillary stuff to facilitate their hunting trip need to put some money into the "ACCESS FUND" too. You cannot be carried on the backs of those hunters and fishers that are are currently funding the BCWF, you have to become part of the solution too.

[Gr8 white hunter]

Send them all back to the stone age.

[RENO]

Agreed! It is becoming painfully obvious that we have no rights and freedoms in this country, and those that enjoy their life style choices in this country have got to step up and make a difference or we will be left, watching all the others from our windows enjoying life because they are minorities or whine the loudest. It is very disappointing to say the least, and I am afraid to say it will get worse as Canadians are not know for their tenacity to fight for rights, someone else will do it, or I don't want to cause any trouble. time to move to Texas.

[Singleshotneeded]

Open fire on all blockades, blow those vermin into extinction, it's over due!

[EvanG]

I wonder if it would be an idea to file a complaint with the bc human rights tribunal, had a quick look at the website. If hunters are being prevented from entering an area to lawfully hunt based on race then we may have a foot to stand on. heres a little portion i copied.

Discriminatory publication7 (1) A person must not publish, issue or display, or cause to be published, issued or displayed, any statement, publication, notice, sign, symbol, emblem or other representation that
(a) indicates discrimination or an intention to discriminate against a person or a group or class of persons, or
(b) is likely to expose a person or a group or class of persons to hatred or contempt
because of the race, colour, ancestry, place of origin, religion, marital status, family status, physical or mental disability, sex, sexual orientation or age of that person or that group or class of persons.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a private communication, a communication intended to be private or a communication related to an activity otherwise permitted by this Code.



We need to act as a group and take all courses of action.

[EvanG]

i rememebr a case i saw in the paper not long ago about a guy who won a case against a gym because they wouldnt let him wear hiking boots to work out, i think this is a stronger case of discrimination than that. lol

[EvanG]

everyone let me know your thoughts on this and if you agree I will personally go ahead and file an official complaint, I hunt the area in question often and got screwed over last time they blocked the roads i have had enough of this BS.

[Singleshotneeded]

They're mainly a bunch of law breaking, drunk, poaching trash...but if you call a spade a spade you're the one
the lawdogs go after!

[Mulehahn]

I think trying to lodge a complaint can not hurt. We have to use all the resources we have access to. If they refuse to look into it, demand answers. Hunters are in no way discriminate or hinder other people rights to the out doors, what gives anyone the right to discriminate against us. The key is to remain repectful.

[RENO]

Hunters are in no way discriminate or hinder other people rights to the out doors, what gives anyone the right to discriminate against us. The key is to remain repectful.[/QUOTE]

Yes that's the key! but some do because they do not like hunting, think we are barbaric,rednecks, and should buy are groceries from the hormone store, Peta is another. We don't discrim but others do cause they have a master plan to brown nose the Gov till the whole world is pure and good and brown nose's like them.

[ElectricDyck]

I wish our government would take a stand. With or against, just something, so everyone knows the rules. You can't let it go forever, eventually it's going to blow up and somebody is gonna die.

It's too bad hunters can't unify, it would be awesome if everyone in bc could plan a hunt in the chilcoltins this year, there is strength in numbers, a blockade would crumble if 1000 hunters from the lower mainland showed up at once.

I have an leh in there this year so I'm interested to see how this all plays out.

[The Dawg]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/5/31/5436d3a2-1ac6-4d55-9bcc-049c857be0f5.jpg

[RENO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa6c3OTr6yA

[Rymar]

the funniest part about a very unfunny situation for me is quite simple...if they are planning on deactivating roads, they are just cutting their own throats...when was the last time any of you saw an indian shoot a moose from anywhere but a road, with (often hid lights) easy access to their winches and trucks. That would require work!

Personally we (we as in all british columbians) have a right by law to legal access to these land and legal hunting in the area. That is our land. This is a right i'm willing to fight to maintain, by whatever means necessary. 'they' have already lost one war, not so sure about the wisdom in starting another one.


.........x4

[RENO]

.........x4

This could be just screwing up hunting for everyone in this country PERIOD!

[Shooter]

Maybe a class action lawsuit against the band with everyone that will be affected as the plaintiffs could be in order.

[f350ps]

I have just returned from a Shuswap Region 3 Meeting.

The meeting was convened over the failure of a resolution concerning an access fund at the last BCWF AGM. Also in attendance were Bill Bosch, BCWF President; George Wilson, Access Chairman; and Al Martin, Director of Strategic Initiatives.

Region 3 was extremely disappointed with the disposition of the motion and sought to seek clarification on any improprieties that seem to have occurred in the handling of the resolution. The resolution was called the "Access Fund" and the intent was to levie a per capita increase to the dues in the amount of $2.00.

Oddly, this disclosure by the Chilcotin indians to exclude non-Chilcotin from hunting should coincide with our regional meeting. Here we were on the eve or verge set to discuss an issue that goes in hand with the need for the "Access Fund". Ironic is all I can say.

The first case was to be a lawsuit against the Douglas Lake Cattle Company (DLC) for blocking public access roads to Stony and Minnie Lakes.
A lot of you will look at this and say, "So what, let them have the lakes."

If you cave in on this, you might as well cave in the the Indians wherever they deem to exclude you from. You might as well cave in to the BC Cattlemens Association, the forest companies, the mining companies because they are waiting in the wings for legislation to pass in the fall sitting that is going to make access to crown land a thing of the past.

Alarmist sounding? It is and it is on the verge of coming to you, full bore.

Fowl language makes some really good points. I posted quotes around those and I want you to pay close attention to them.
He says that we have to band together. He is absolutely right, we have to band together and the only vialble means is to get behind the BCWF. Beaking off on here will have no effect on the outcome. You now have to pony up money to save your hunting and fishing. Or as Fowl language says, ".....sell your hunting stuff for what you can get for it."
We discussed this at the regional meeting and since we had Bill Bosch, George Wilson and Al Martin attending, the BCWF is apprised of the situation including the Chilcotin's perposterous manifesto.

This not only affects the hunters and fishers, it affects everyone that wants to access the backcountry, including ATVers, berry pickers, hikers and climbers. You just name an activity that takes you outdoors beyond the blacktop and this will come to affect those activities.

Please buy a BCWF membership, through a club or direct. Go to the BCWF website and make a cash donation and state it is to be used solely for access issues. Just do it.

And just so you know, I put my money where my mouth is. , I made a $100 commitment to the Nicola Valley Fish and Game Club legal fund to take on the DLC. What will you commit for the preservation of your hunting and fishing opportunities and those of your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren?

What ever happened to the Hunters and Anglers Preservation Fund, I thought that was for this type of shit? I hope it wasn't just another BCWF farce! K

[Darksith]

Theres a lot of talk in this post, maybe someone who is good at putting words on paper would like to post a gerneric "Dear MP" letter that everyone who has concerns can simply copy and paste into an email to their respective MP and MLA? Any wordy volunteers?

[pnbrock]

great idea dark smith I'm having trouble wording my letter without a lot of slander and fowl language!!

[Ambush]

There's not many hunters in the "communities" there anymore. Once in a while a bunch will go kill some stuff just because they can. So not being able to hunt moose themselves will not be a sacrfice. Just as long as you can't do it, is all they're after.


And I keep hearing that there are wolves everywhere and no moose. What the hell are these wolves eating, to stay alive, if there are no moose?
Was Farley Mowat right and they really do only eat mice??

I'm going hunting in region 5 becuase I have it planned. If a war breaks out, I'll get a whole new perspective on history, because I'll have a bow and arrows and they will have the guns. :shock:

[meat keeper]

Got a moose draw for 5-2 D. Nothing is going to stop me from trying to fill it.

[lip_ripper00]

great idea dark smith I'm having trouble wording my letter without a lot of slander and fowl language!!

This is some good ideas right here. This will be done through politics rather than force. I have hunted the area in question for a lot of years, I have had interactions with said people in the past .. both positive and negative. Leave the bravado at home, if you think you can go in to this area, with their current proposals and feel safe leaving your camp with game cams etc. all your going to see is a bunch of people, faces covered stealing and burning your shit. we walk a fine line in their at the best of times, if they want to get nasty it could get ugly. I watch this thread with great interest, and will look up my MP tomorrow. Cool head must prevail!



And no I did'nt call Nasty ugly

[Whonnock Boy]

I can't help but feel discouraged knowing that once again nothing will be done by both the provincial and federal governments. When will the majority of our nation who is fed up with these type of actions stand up and say enough is enough? Yes, I will write my MLA. Yes, I will sign petitions. Yes, I will donate my time/money to the cause. Yes, I will spread the word. Yes, I will join in a convoy of hunters going to the nearest blockade come September. Tell me what you want me to do, and I will do it.

[Singleshotneeded]

Two Leopard main battle tanks, side by side, can quickly deal with any blockade.
If ANY group in this country tries to block and hinder the fundamental rights of ALL other citizens of Canada,
then they are breaking the law. Their blockade is illegal and the army should send two tanks to roll over any
such illegal blockade wherever they appear. That won't happen in Canada of course, because the vast majority
of our politicians have nuts so tiny that not even Gold Bond Green would do them any good. :-)

[The Dude]

Anyone confirmed this yet? I'm still wanting to see something other than a single PDF. Call me crazy.

[The Dude]

Just some more background on this "Traditional" hunt.



By early March most peo- ple had left camp to travel in search of game. The larger animals hunted were elk, deer, caribou, and black bears.In the 20th century elk were replaced by moose. In April weirs and basketry traps were constructed and fishing began in streams where lake fish spawned. Trout, whitefish, suckers, and salmon (Oncorhynchus nerka) were the most im- portant species. During the spring muskrats were trapped and plant foods were an important dietary supplement.

http://archive.org/stream/materialcultureo20vans/materialcultureo20vans_djvu.txt

[The Dude]

In the early part of the last century around 1914, moose began to move into the Chilcotin. Prior to that, the Native Aboriginals didn't even have a name for the animal and in fact, called it Mowich, the same as what they called a deer. The first white man to identify the animal was a storekeeper that had moved from Northern BC where he had worked as a trader for the Hudson Bay Company. Fred Becher had set up a trading post at Riske Creek and he recognized the mysterious animal as a moose when hide and horns were brought to him at the trading post.
By the 1930's, it's said that moose had overrun the country but that many died off during a harsh winter in the 1950's. There are still quite a few around though, and you'll often see them along the treeline or in meadows along Highway 20 if you keep a sharp eye out.

http://www.visitthewestchilcotin.com/Wildlife.html

[wicket]

If a letter or petition can get posted Ill sign and send the letter to my mp and get 25 signatures and addys and send that away as well from here in Ontario. Ill send some cash to the bcwf too when i get home from work tonight. Hunters across this great country need to rally together on this sort of thing not just in BC. Here in Ont, we have had many many situations like this down south and they always end badly. Best thing to do is get them resolved before they actually commence. Good luck.
wicket

[Nova]

Thats crazy if they think there gonna block roads and allow no hunting. I got a moose draw for 5-12 and cant wait to get up there. Gonna be some angry people If they think there gonna pull that kind of stunt. We need to block the roads and put up a fence around there reserve. Keep em off our land, frickin pit lampin poachers.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I think we need 95,000 resident "black bear, wolf and cougar hunters":wink: to show up in Reg 5 and help them out with their moose predation issues.
Why would they turn away help??

SSS

[f350ps]

(http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/factsheet_provincial_moose_population_may2012.pdf) I'm not sure if this has been posted yet or not but I think this is what got them riled.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/factsheet_provincial_moose_population_may2012.pdf (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/factsheet_provincial_moose_population_may2012.pdf)

[Jagermeister]

What ever happened to the Hunters and Anglers Preservation Fund, I thought that was for this type of shit? I hope it wasn't just another BCWF farce! K
I do not know the status of the "Hunters and Anglers Preservation Fund" but if you have not contributed, it is probably defunct.
I would hardly consider it a farce as it relied on contributions from the members of the hunting community. Like I said, if no one was contributing on a regular basis the fund probably never received enough cash for the fund to be maintained.
I have made a query to the status of the fund and when I get the answer, I will let you know.

[Islandbowhunter]

This may be a good angle, their proposal is outrageous. It makes me think of water fountains...


I wonder if it would be an idea to file a complaint with the bc human rights tribunal, had a quick look at the website. If hunters are being prevented from entering an area to lawfully hunt based on race then we may have a foot to stand on. heres a little portion i copied.

Discriminatory publication

7 (1) A person must not publish, issue or display, or cause to be published, issued or displayed, any statement, publication, notice, sign, symbol, emblem or other representation that
(a) indicates discrimination or an intention to discriminate against a person or a group or class of persons, or
(b) is likely to expose a person or a group or class of persons to hatred or contempt
because of the race, colour, ancestry, place of origin, religion, marital status, family status, physical or mental disability, sex, sexual orientation or age of that person or that group or class of persons.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a private communication, a communication intended to be private or a communication related to an activity otherwise permitted by this Code.



We need to act as a group and take all courses of action.

[srupp]

I have just got off the phone with TRUDY @ the band ofice who CONFIRMS the document is from the band..its legit as printed.I have a phone call expected from the chief regarding "kindly escorted out " definition.

there it is.

Steven

[Stone Sheep Steve]

At the beginning of this statement it says "no hunting" but there are multiple times where it states "no moose hunting". What about bears, deer, wolves, mtn goats, caribou???
Seems poorly thought out.

SSS

[The Dude]

I have just got off the phone with TRUDY @ the band ofice who CONFIRMS the document is from the band..its legit as printed.I have a phone call expected from the chief regarding "kindly escorted out " definition.Steven

Keep us posted, Steven......this is gonna get worse before it gets better.

[Islandbowhunter]

If you think no moose hunting in a very limited area is bad, check out how the Halalt stopped the new water station from delivering desparately needed clean drinking water to the residents of Chemainus.

This is setting some very dangerous precedent!

[trapperRick]

If the Govt lets this happen then I would think the Govt should have to reimburse all those who put in for the LEH draws for this zone? Or perhaps make the band reimburse out of thier monies.

[Spy]

Has anyone spoken to ministry of environment to get their reaction! Steven you got the number for the band office, i want to give them a call myself!

[Bigbear]

Most of the Area the FN are Talking about is west of the Fraser river.Its Funny that the only whites That hunt out there Hunt under LEH , so those numbers arnt all that great. Where do the Rest go, they don't have to record there Kills.

[brian]

Has anyone who has a moose draw in the regions affected considered launching a class action lawsuit, probably targeting the band and the province (for not enforcing the laws that prevent people from interfering with a lawful hunt)?

As for getting press involved and marching and political brew haw haw. Think about how it looks from a publicity perspective. Moose populations are down, the native band is saying they are trying to protect the moose, and a bunch of hunters are saying we want to hunt despite what is happening to the moose populations. You will loose the public sympathy vote every day with that one.

[RENO]

The Ministry is reaching out to key stakeholders, wildlife experts and First Nations to assist in investigating the cause for the declines. Analysis of existing data is underway. As well, additional inventory work is being conducted to determine the status of moose in other areas of the province.
All possibilities for the decline will be investigated. Ministry staff have compiled a list of potential factors, including; unregulated hunting, increased access, predator populations, changing environmental conditions (including habitat changes resulting from the mountain pine beetle infestation and timber salvaging), and cumulative impacts of one or more of these factors.
At present, there is no obvious cause for the declines, although initial findings show healthy bull to cow ratios in most areas, indicating that these declines are not attributable to regulated hunting. Nevertheless, moose hunting opportunities within some areas of the most heavily affected Management Units will be reduced immediately.
The decline in some moose populations is not considered to be an immediate conservation concern. However, the new population estimates mean that the Limited Entry Hunt (LEH) for moose will be reduced in certain areas.
This backgrounder summarizes findings by region.


Cariboo Region
Population trend:
The moose population has decreased considerably from the last available surveys, ranging from a 17 per cent decline in the Rose Lake‐Miocene area to 60 per cent decline in the Anahim Lake/Dean River area.
Bull to cow ratios are stable and within regional objectives, suggesting that the licensed harvest of bull moose has not been responsible for the declines in population.
Calf to cow ratios are generally acceptable, although below regional targets in selected areas (Big Creek‐Taseko).


Response:
Ministry staff have shared the survey results, population estimates and management implications with the Tsilhqot’in National Government. Ministry staff also plan to meet with the Ulkatcho, and other communities of the Southern Carrier group (Nazko, Kluskus, Red Bluff).
Meetings with guided and resident hunter sectors are also being scheduled to discuss management implications.
4


The allowable annual hunt will be decreased based on revised population estimates, resulting in reductions of LEH authorizations for resident hunters, and quota restrictions for guide outfitters.
The ministry is seeking the services of an independent moose expert to assess the influence of factors responsible for the moose population decline in the Cariboo Region.

Where does it say, the LEH was cancelled, and when and where were these meetings to discuss management implications with resident hunters and guides? This gov document is very general and does not get into allot of detail but does not say no moose hunting! Ministry staff have compiled a list of potential factors, including; unregulated hunting, increased access, predator populations, changing environmental conditions (including habitat changes resulting from the mountain pine beetle infestation and timber salvaging), and cumulative impacts of one or more of these factors.

If this was the case , and it was know than the Gov should have informed all hunters there was no LEH or Moose hunt in reg 5. This to me looks like standard Gov info, and someone now has assumed to take this matter further and put out this doc to ban access. I think a real sit down is in order in this province and really get this straight.

[Ltbullken]

Blockades n' guns in the woods... fueled by anger, resentment, entitlement, and suspicion. :x Oooooohhh, this looks good! The Mounties will be busy this fall!

[Islandbowhunter]

I am drafting a letter. I should have something by this afternoon. It is difficult to boil all the arguments and emotions down to a few succinct points...also taking care of my 4 year old so bear with me.

I will PM first drafts to a few members who have submitted constructive input. If you feel you have editing/writing/legal skills PM and let me know you want to help draft some documents. This is just the beginning of this one...

[.330 Dakota]

Blockades n' guns in the woods... fueled by anger, resentment, entitlement, and suspicion. :x Oooooohhh, this looks good! The Mounties will be busy this fall!

Too bad the Mounties dont know if they're asses are bored or punched.

[articcat]

Me too they can't pack water to. Ge fire storm I will make, pure. Bs take away there welfare cheques and trucks and guns give em back bow and arrows

[Glenny]

Some posters on this fine website have been crying for years about no moose in 5, wolves and the locals and on and on, so somebody finally heard you and started to believe in your theory. No moose in 5 they said, none where they used to see seven moose a season before and the next year they only seen one.

Just bad timing Jel. 2 weeks after everyone gets their draws and makes their plans. Maybe they should have announced this prior to LEH ent-rees.

[RENO]

Just bad timing Jel. 2 weeks after everyone gets their draws and makes their plans. Maybe they should have announced this prior to LEH ent-rees.

You think? Captain Kirk! BIG X2

[Glenny]

Beam me up Clint!

[RENO]

Looks like the Klingons are at it again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFods1KSWsQ&feature=related

[792]

If I was the band leader I would withhold all band cheques until every male handed in 50 dead wolves each, being as there is no penalty for how or what they kill. That would involve work and "hunting" though so it probably wouldnt fly. I also think that they would loose public support when its learned that they will not submit harvest numbers and will allow you to hunt if you pay them if it went to the media.

[Islandbowhunter]

First draft composed, now it's a diamond in the rough :lol:

I am going to edit a bit, then will submit to a few people via PM.

Once happy that it is an effective tool, I will post it here.

[curt]

This is ironic I've touched on this very topic on more than 1 occassion, this generation of natives have a terrible self intitlement to all of OUR land it's brutal!! the sad but true reality is the mounties will be busy but they will be redirecting the law abiding hunters away from conflict. They will do nothing to the natives because our government will not deal with the issue they are to scared, in the bush or on our waterways they back off like a whipped dog!!! This has been going on for decades the law abiding guys and girls will take it dry as per normal. It's kind of funny in a sad way how everyone talks tough like they will just plow through the road blocks, I'd bet very few to non will even attempt it !? the reality is road blocks natives with attitude, guns, angry guy and gals cant forget the booze will equal someone getting hurt or killed all for the sake of a moose hunt, even the most radicle of law abiding hunters will see that situation isnt worth the outcome. Now lets just say you do make it through the rd block set up a nice camp and go off hunting, wow what a nice pleasent trip to the woods!!!!!! looking over your shoulder and behind every tree for the token local crazy guy. Just hope you come back to camp and still have a camp I know a few guys over the yrs that have had their camps raided and trashed! Anyway until the government grows some balls and deals with this on a large scale and cuts their nuts off we will be at the mercy of them period its sad but true. For the guys who figure they will just plow through the lines here is a little tactical advice..... Dont draw for show once the guns are out be prepared to use them, when you run you guns dry seek cover to reload, keep your eyes up so your aquisition time on your targets are minimized, and shoot center of mass, pack an iron site personal protection peice you will need it for aquiring your targets quickly! First and most importantly take the kids on a nice trip deer hunting to any other region but 5 before you go John Wayne ing your way into region 5!!! :)

[LYKTOHUNT]

First draft composed, now it's a diamond in the rough :lol:

I am going to edit a bit, then will submit to a few people via PM.

Once happy that it is an effective tool, I will post it here.
Thanks Islandbowhunter for your efforts
Does anyone know if there is a place to send money specific to fighting this or maybe its too early for a legal fund specific to this issue.

[Islandbowhunter]

@LYKTOHUNT: You're welcome, my pleasure. This needs to be done!

@Curt: How will you help fight this?

[Buck TraX]

What about areas not in the caretaker area like 5-01or 5-02a south?Will these area just be getting pattrolled by natives or are they ok

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Let's look at this from a different angle that might be easier for this group to understand....No hunting license sales in the area, no funds generated for inventories. No resident hunters= no money.

SSS

[Islandbowhunter]

Why should we even be asking questions like this? Patolled by natives...WTF? Unless it's RCMP, municipal police, Coast Guard or military, nobody should be patrolling anything. ALL of these areas are OK.

[RENO]

If I was the band leader I would withhold all band cheques until every male handed in 50 dead wolves each, being as there is no penalty for how or what they kill. That would involve work and "hunting" though so it probably wouldnt fly. I also think that they would loose public support when its learned that they will not submit harvest numbers and will allow you to hunt if you pay them if it went to the media.


or the country becomes one again, no provinces, Gov controls land ,game , Canada wide we are all Canadians ,you don't like it leave! we are all equal!
no privileges for any, everyone works no funding or free money, just a pension you pay into or disabled pension and that's it. One hunting /fishing license for all of Canada.No more free rides and special rights period!

[Islandbowhunter]

Wow, a simple and beautiful concept. But somebody keeps drawing the lines...

[curt]

Thats a good question?? I dont have any answers and without the government stepping up I'm not convinced much can be done but I am willing to help if something is mobilized. I hate the fact our natives abuse their rights obscuring it through their past culture, this generation (not all but lots) hide behind the "culture" for their own personal agenda or gains it's brutal.
CM

[RENO]

Wow ! this is crazy a simple LEH moose hunt has turned into the Alamo. Instead of moving forward positively in this world as brothers and sisters,
we are regressing backwards. here is a few thoughts/ History repeats? War and Violence is only truly understood by those who have lived it.
Culture is just that Culture not a right! They way you behave is the way you will be treated by others.

[d6dan]

No one has brought this up as a reminder of what happened in Region 6 a couple of years ago. Maybe this was the beginning of all this bs?.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?44836-trouble-on-the-klappan&highlight=hunting+region

I seem to recall the only reimbursement to the hunters was the cost of a leh card.

[RENO]

No one has brought this up as a reminder of what happened in Region 6 a couple of years ago. Maybe this was the beginning of all this bs?.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?44836-trouble-on-the-klappan&highlight=hunting+region

I seem to recall the only reimbursement to the hunters was the cost of a leh card.


never seems to end, but I predict big trouble when pos/neg meet up. Too bad things have to go this way, good luck to all. and on your moose hunt reg5.

[The Dude]

Me too they can't pack water to. Ge fire storm I will make, pure. Bs take away there welfare cheques and trucks and guns give em back bow and arrows

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg491/guysfunnys/376855_407698362599039_1876570670_n.jpg

[Islandbowhunter]

@d6dan & reno: I went through the post you wrote about...I see a letter written in response to a similar situation. Not much happened in response.

But the end result being favourable or not, I think we should do something...I don't understand what the suggestion is. Do nothing?

[Islandbowhunter]

And for levity, once again Dude makes me laugh!

[Islandbowhunter]

Okay guys, my kid's really bored so it's time to get off of this for now. I will pursue the letter, edit it, and post later this afternoon.

Any helpful suggestions much appreciated!

[The Dude]

Let's look at this from a different angle that might be easier for this group to understand....No hunting license sales in the area, no funds generated for inventories. No resident hunters= no money.

SSS

Wow. That wasn't the least bit condescending.........
And how do you figure Provincial License sales funds are Region-specific? First I've ever heard of this.

[The Dude]

IBH: Key points I would cover are that:

We ALL have a right to hunt in BC, Native and Non-Native alike.

Moose are not native to BC, having followed settlement West, and cannot be considered part of any "Traditional" hunts.

Cite the section of the Regs where it States it is illegal to interfere with a lawful hunt.

Cite the section of the Criminal Code where it states it is illegal to direct hatred of any kind on another Canadian on the basis of race.

Might want to find something in the Highway Act about illegally blocking roads (Add a safety issue?)

Add that a combination of factors, including but not limited to overharvest of cows and calves by unlicensed 'hunters', and an overpopulation of predators is what is keeping the Moose pops low, NOT regulated, reported legal hunting.

That's all for now. Keep it professional and polite. No demands, just polite but firm requests for action.

Cheers,
Duders.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Wow. That wasn't the least bit condescending.........
And how do you figure Provincial License sales funds are Region-specific? First I've ever heard of this.

Sorry, getting a little miffed at this one and don't even hunt Reg 5.

If there's not going to be any residents (of the entire province) hunting the area then there should be any funding directed to the area. Doesn't matter how many resident hunters live there. That wasn't my point.
Maybe it wasn't that easy to understand??

Here's another possible outcome of tem not allowing dead MPB timber to be salvaged in their GO territores..... Let it all stand and wait for lightning. On second thought, that might be good for the moose. Just don't out any fires that start up on their own.

SSS

[The Dawg]

Its gonna happen again if we dont do something about it



http://i16.servimg.com/u/f16/14/56/79/88/shaney10.jpg

[The Dude]

No, I get what you're saying, but the limited funds are allocated on an as-needed basis, wherever needed in BC. The license money doesn't stay in the Region, and many licences are bought outside of the Region they are used in, so there's no way of knowing.
But the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so we might see more funding directed toward surveys, tagging/collaring, and predator control......could make a silk purse out of a sow's ear on this one after all.

[Jelvis]

No booze or drugs involved either, anyone involved must be Stone Sober on all users when conversing ..
ALL PEOPLE .. STONE COLD SOBER .. WHEN CONVERSING .. FOR SAFETY and CLEAR HEADS .. nobody wired4sound
Jel .. Sober and empty not LOCKED and LOADED .. BE NORMAL as POSSY BILL .. SOLID .. CALM .. RELAXED .. RESERVED

[rocksteady]

No booze or drugs involved either, anyone involved must be Stone Sober on all users when conversing ..
ALL PEOPLE .. STONE COLD SOBER .. WHEN CONVERSING .. FOR SAFETY and CLEAR HEADS .. nobody wired4sound
Jel .. Sober and empty not LOCKED and LOADED .. BE NORMAL as POSSY BILL .. SOLID .. CALM .. RELAXED .. RESERVED

Pretty hard to do when one specific side feels they have the "inherant right to" something...... because they think they do....

Lets recap...

So far First Nations people feel they have the right to:

1) Kill animals out of the regulated hunting season because they have the "inherant right" of "sustenance"
2) They do not pay for hunting licenes or tags as they have the "inherant right"
3) They do not have to apply for LEH in areas of management considerations because they have the "inherant right"
4) Harvest as many animals/fish as they wish cause they have the "inherant right".
5) Harvest many fish by using the dip net or set net, that no non-FN can do, as its illegal but its their "inherant right".

NOw they wish to stop all NON-FN hunters or guided hunts by non-FN guides.....

Where does it all end????? Looks like they have their cake and are going back to the plate for a second helping, including the corner piece that has all the iciing...

Depending on how this plays out I am sure it will set precident for other Nations/provinces...

If it comes to be, my bet is it is going to get real UGLY...

[Island Redneck]

There must be something going on, I just heard on the news in Port Alberni, that the Tseshaht band wants to manage the Roosevelt Elk herd in their traditional area and they dont feel they are getting a big enough share of the quota now and they want to change that.

IMO. The only way this BS. is going to stop is if everyone gets together and goes after the funding and handouts these band recieve, every time a Indian band or one of the Governments does something that costs you and your family money or lessens your families quality of life, get together and make them pay finacialy and through the Press.


Stop trying to be politicaly correct and get politicaly active.

[d6dan]

@d6dan & reno: Not much happened in response.

Thats right, and this is what happened in response back then.:frown:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?47101-government-leh-rembursement-!&highlight=klappen+road+block

[gcreek]

Pretty hard to do when one specific side feels they have the "inherant right to" something...... because they think they do....

Lets recap...

So far First Nations people feel they have the right to:

1) Kill animals out of the regulated hunting season because they have the "inherant right" of "sustenance"
2) They do not pay for hunting licenes or tags as they have the "inherant right"
3) They do not have to apply for LEH in areas of management considerations because they have the "inherant right"
4) Harvest as many animals/fish as they wish cause they have the "inherant right".
5) Harvest many fish by using the dip net or set net, that no non-FN can do, as its illegal but its their "inherant right".

NOw they wish to stop all NON-FN hunters or guided hunts by non-FN guides.....

Where does it all end????? Looks like they have their cake and are going back to the plate for a second helping, including the corner piece that has all the iciing...

Depending on how this plays out I am sure it will set precident for other Nations/provinces...

If it comes to be, my bet is it is going to get real UGLY...

Wonder when the UN will step in in support of the poor, suppressed Native population if it does get nasty?

[gcreek]

There must be something going on, I just heard on the news in Port Alberni, that the Tseshaht band wants to manage the Roosevelt Elk herd in their traditional area and they dont feel they are getting a big enough share of the quota now and they want to change that.

IMO. The only way this BS. is going to stop is if everyone gets together and goes after the funding and handouts these band recieve, every time a Indian band or one of the Governments does something that costs you and your family money or lessens your families quality of life, get together and make them pay finacialy and through the Press.


Stop trying to be politicaly correct and get politicaly active.

The first thing that needs to be addressed is the fact that far too many lawyers make their total lifetime living by working for DIA or the bands themselves. An issue like this will sadly create more jobs for the parasites.

[bandit]

At the beginning of this statement it says "no hunting" but there are multiple times where it states "no moose hunting". What about bears, deer, wolves, mtn goats, caribou???
Seems poorly thought out.

SSS

So how are they going to police a moose specific hunting ban? Surely if you had a brain you would just drive through the "roadblock" saying you were hunting deer.

Banning hunting all species in case you hunt a moose will get them into a massive legal minefield. Thats the same thing as saying ban selling all guns in case you use it to murder someone.

[qhergt]

i like the idea of blockading their reserve and not letting anyone access the rest of canada

[Islandbowhunter]

@ Dude: thx for the input, I will integrate those.

2nd draft complete, it's getting a little clearer, but so much area to cover and lots of elevated emotion on this one. Makes me think of the picture of my Old Man with his moose in the 'Creek, black powder rifle, deep snow...a real hunter. And his Old Man, and...this is part of my heritage too!

[walks with deer]

Lets Invite every hunter in the province there for end of Aug before the season waiting for the opening, dressed to hunt liscense and tags just make a statment but not actually hunt that would be a gong show.

[Jagermeister]

Pretty hard to do when one specific side feels they have the "inherant right to" something...... because they think they do....

Lets recap...

So far First Nations people feel they have the right to:

1) Kill animals out of the regulated hunting season because they have the "inherant right" of "sustenance"
2) They do not pay for hunting licenes or tags as they have the "inherant right"
3) They do not have to apply for LEH in areas of management considerations because they have the "inherant right"
4) Harvest as many animals/fish as they wish cause they have the "inherant right".
5) Harvest many fish by using the dip net or set net, that no non-FN can do, as its illegal but its their "inherant right".

NOw they wish to stop all NON-FN hunters or guided hunts by non-FN guides.....

Where does it all end????? Looks like they have their cake and are going back to the plate for a second helping, including the corner piece that has all the iciing...

Depending on how this plays out I am sure it will set precident for other Nations/provinces...

If it comes to be, my bet is it is going to get real UGLY...

You forgot to take into account medical, dental , housing, education, tax free vehicles (like those are traditional) and a host of other things that the rest of us have to pay for through taxes we pay and they don't. And they think we're bleeding them.


And with regards to the BC Hunter and Angler Preservation Fund. That fund is under the control of the Political Action Alliance (whoever that might be) and not under the direction of the BCWF.

[f350ps]

And with regards to the BC Hunter and Angler Preservation Fund. That fund is under the control of the Political Action Alliance (whoever that might be) and not under the direction of the BCWF.[/QUOTE]

Interesting, thanks! K

[birosj]

Well, it just took me 3 hours to read through all this. A bunch of great points. What is the answer? Talk to the political parties? Talk with the FN? Mass up with a bunch of "Deer Hunters".
It is our land. Born and raised here. Non Native? I'm not FN but am native to there.
Gustavson Lake again? The RCMP brought the Bison in last time. Not the animal but the troop carrier.

[srupp]

Okay I have talked with chief Alphonse this morning. And here's basically what he told me, and yes I can be quoted.

The chief and I had a very good discussion and he was positive that he wanted to endorse the hunting lifestyle both native and non-native... That's us. And it was not his intention nor the bands intention to eliminate or severely curtail non-aboriginal hunting rights. His sole concern is one of resources the ever dwindling moose population. Joe stated that the Moose has become a very important food sustenance for his band.
We both agree that the numbers of Moose have drastically declined everywhere in the Cariboo.
I specifically asked about being escorted out of the area... It was my specific understanding(I asked several times) that his direction is to educate not to confront, or alienate fellow hunters.. Again us. There would be no physical interactions at his directions.. He went out of his way to ensure I understood and we understood that this is an education process and not a confrontational... Violence provoking situation.

We both agreed that this could have the potential of some band members being anxious about getting their Moose but so are non-aboriginal hunters.. And we both agreed to work at ratcheting down the fear of confrontation.

Any interaction with the native band members will be educational only... I can only say that, however having some more information that I agreed not to share openly however if individuals want to contact me I am certain I can put your mind at ease. This was my assurance by chief Joe Alphonse... We also discussed certain areas that are highly sensitive.. However in my estimation are overhyped as Moose areas..

I am encouraged by my discussion with chief Joe and hope this puts some of the high anxiety to a slightly lower level.. Go enjoy your hunt and I hope you're successful, if you need any further assistance or clarification please do not hesitate to call me.

I also contacted the RCMP and speaking with the native liaison Constable.

I also will be talking to my MLA Donna Barnett

I unfortunately will be going into Vancouver General Hospital for the next couple of days for kidney surgery but will be home for next week.

Hope this helps you guys and all us...

hunters


cheers

Steven Rupp