Saskatchewan LEH system miles better than our wtf is the problem here!?!?

[curt]

So I was talking to my friend from work who is from SK, and goes back there every year to hunt. Why is it that their system is sooooooo freaking much better than ours, yet the powers to be here cant pull their head out of the a**es and come up with a better system! Sk basically has 4 pools the way I understand it each year you dont get drawn you move up a pool by the time you hit the final pool if you havent been drawn you get a draw that year!?!?!?!? Seems pretty fair to me no one goes more than 4yrs without something what a NEAT CONCEPT!!!!!!!! This reduced odds system here is BS it doesnt work and there is no transparency is our system?????

[Hurtlocker]

That would be great we could all shoot an island elk every 4 years!

[warnniklz]

did you ask him about all the animals that have general open season... there aren't many

[SUAFOYT]

1 week whitetail season there:-x

[416]

So I was talking to my friend from work who is from SK, and goes back there every year to hunt. Why is it that their system is sooooooo freaking much better than ours, yet the powers to be here cant pull their head out of the a**es and come up with a better system! Sk basically has 4 pools the way I understand it each year you dont get drawn you move up a pool by the time you hit the final pool if you havent been drawn you get a draw that year!?!?!?!? Seems pretty fair to me no one goes more than 4yrs without something what a NEAT CONCEPT!!!!!!!! This reduced odds system here is BS it doesnt work and there is no transparency is our system?????

Grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. Each province has their own unique animals populations there fore the different systems for their draws. As mentioned, there aren't many animals in BC that DON'T have a GOS. No matter what the LEH gods do or don't do for you, there are still ample opportunities to fill the freezer with the open seasons we have here. That said, it ain't perfect, but it works.

[Rubicon500]

Nothin wrong our system its works like a lottery draw should. How do you have a pool system like that when you have hunts that are 1000:1 ? We have the most animals on GOS than any province and your complaining ? If you want that moose tag so bad , head to the upper half of our province and shoot one. For one there isnt a place in North America where you can hunt 3 different kinds of sheep and goats over the counter. I dont know why people complain when they generally put in for tags that are over 20:1 and never win.

[The Hermit]

To quote a famous website owner... "don't let the door hit you on the way out". I'd love to hunt Sask for a big deer but wouldn't move there for the hunting!

[Brez]

Now that B.C. has opened up the elk and goat to GOS, it's better, but before when there were a lot more on LEH, it SUCKED! The Alberta system is much better. Here you have to be lucky. There, you have to have patience and you'll get drawn. All the years that elk and moose were on LEH in the Kootenays, and I got nothing but "nil". In Alberta I would have had a chance ( I've been drawn for moose the last 4 years). The system in B.C. is archaic, outdated, and totally inefficient. Give me a break - over four weeks to do the draw (and with hardly any draws now)? I could manually pull the names out of a hat and get the replies out quicker. Just don't suggest any better system to the powers that be because theyl'l get their backs up and it will never change.

[IronNoggin]

It ain't just Saskatchewan! Try the Yukon, NWT, Alberta and Manitoba for starters. Then have a boo at pretty much ALL of the Western States. Won't take long to see the pattern and doesn't take long to understand just why the LEH system here is the LAUGHINGSTOCK of the Hunting World! From California up to Alaska and points FAR to the east, almost all have gone to progressive priority systems. Systems that actually work for both management purposes and Hunters alike!


... The system in B.C. is archaic, outdated, and totally inefficient. Give me a break - over four weeks to do the draw (and with hardly any draws now)? ...

And that, in a nutshell, captures the situation quite nicely.

Methinks it won't be long before someone chimes in with the myriad of reasons why BC's system is The Best. Most commonly cited is the excessive numbers and low odds we see here as one of the greatest stumbling blocks for getting on the progressive train. That argument looks good on the surface, until you have a look at the odds in many of the Western States for many of their hunts - near the same level of applicants & therefor odds exist, yet they have managed to find a system that works with those odds, and yet still produces those "Dream Hunts" within a reasonable amount of time for those who pursue them.

There are of course other arguments for BC's archaic way of doing things with the LEH. Pretty much all Hogwash once you get into the "meat" of the matter.

I doubt we will ever see any type of "progress" made here though. For Chri$akes, they have a hard enough time trying to keep the old lottery style system bumbling along, let alone giving any thought whatsoever towards anything more complicated than pulling the numbers out of the proverbial hat. And given their "efficiency" at that, we'd best be careful wishing for "progress". Were that to be realized, you'd likely have to apply two or three years In Advance! :shock:

I actually did draw two BC LEH tags this year; Moose & Muley. First time in over 15 years, at 5 or 6 draws a year focusing on the best odds available. Could have knocked me over with a feather when I realized I had actually drawn anything here! Certainly doesn't change my mind regarding the system employed here - it very much is "archaic, outdated, and totally inefficient". The systems in every other place I hunt is much better, and I can actually COUNT on drawing desirable tags WITHIN MY FREAKING LIFETIME!

Up this year for quite a few tags in Alberta. Funny thing is that should I draw any that are concurrent with those in BC, I'll choose to hunt BC. Why you might ask? Well, I may never draw another one here, but within a couple of years I CERTAINLY WILL under Alberta's progressive system!

Cheers,
Nog

[Sitkaspruce]

Now that B.C. has opened up the elk and goat to GOS, it's better, but before when there were a lot more on LEH, it SUCKED! The Alberta system is much better. Here you have to be lucky. There, you have to have patience and you'll get drawn. All the years that elk and moose were on LEH in the Kootenays, and I got nothing but "nil". In Alberta I would have had a chance ( I've been drawn for moose the last 4 years). The system in B.C. is archaic, outdated, and totally inefficient. Give me a break - over four weeks to do the draw (and with hardly any draws now)? I could manually pull the names out of a hat and get the replies out quicker. Just don't suggest any better system to the powers that be because theyl'l get their backs up and it will never change.

Their system will not work here, I cannot remember the whole reason, but it has something to do stats and how it all works. There was an explanation on the LEH question thread about it.

Alberta's system in all private and is run by a corporation that needs to make money......not really sure what the rush is anyways, who really cares if it is in one month, 6 weeks or 6 days.....you must have been crazy at Christmas time:smile:

If you do not like the system, save your $$$ and go to Alberta. More moose and elk for us BC hunters.

As others have said, we have the best hunting in Canada, so we really have no reason to complain.

It'a a lottery, plain and simple.

Cheers

SS

[kennyj]

Nothin wrong our system its works like a lottery draw should. How do you have a pool system like that when you have hunts that are 1000:1 ? We have the most animals on GOS than any province and your complaining ? If you want that moose tag so bad , head to the upper half of our province and shoot one. For one there isnt a place in North America where you can hunt 3 different kinds of sheep and goats over the counter. I dont know why people complain when they generally put in for tags that are over 20:1 and never win.
X2
Couldn't have said it bettor.
Kenny

[Mulehahn]

I like BC's system. If I want pretty much any animal, with the exception of a grizz, rosie, or bison, somewhere in this province I can go and get one. So, guess what, those are the only draws I put in for (and kamloops sheep because a guys got to dream). Also, I find it a lot easier to plan and save for a hunt for moose in region 6 for a year, rather then getting told I won a draw in region 8 and only having 3 months. I think it is fun to drive around this province, get to see alot of things, meet alot of people and have some fun. I enjoy hunting close the LML, but every year I will head up to region 5 or 7 to see family, and about every other year head to region 6 for a moose hunt. If I know I am going in two years I will save enough to pay for it, do lots of investigation and be prepared. I understand the appeal of getting an moose draw close to home, but you can never rely on it. How would those other systems work in BC? You have to apply for the same exact MU every year? Ok, so I apply for a moose in 10-7 (don't have LEH synopsis with me, so I made up a unit). Say 20 guys apply for it in 2013, 1 draw is given out. So 19 guys move up to tier 2, next year 19 guys in tier 2 and 5 more in tier one and its cut off. 1 draw to tier 2. Next year, 18 guys in tier 3, 5 in tier 2, etc. One guy gets drawn in tier 3. Next year, 17 guys in tier 4, 5 in tier 3. One draw goes to tier 4. Next year, uh-oh, you now have 22 guys in tier 4. One person could have to wait 20 years to get that draw, or lose there place by applying for a different MU. BC's system is the fairest and most well balanced. If I really want to an leh, put in for one with lower odds or do like I do, put in for your dream hunts and enjoy the great GOS BC had.

[Wild one]

The LEH system here could use some work but most in BC are afraid of change and would rather stick with what they know.

Quantity of hunting opportunity is here but quality could use some work. Yes, BC does have some great hunts but after hunting in Alberta there is potential for so much more here in BC then there is.

And here comes the members to say BC is the greatest hunting in the world and needs no change.

[solo]

I would like to thank the guys who do the leh draws. One month to process all that information, make a draw and then accurately disseminate the results is amazing. Using a lottery system to manage sensitive species and over hunted areas is a great idea. Far better than other systems that simply auction off resources to make money.

[d6dan]

1 week whitetail season there:-x

actually 5 day season.

[IronNoggin]

actually 5 day season.

For NON-Residents with rifle: doe or buck.

Use a bow or muzzleloader, the season runs a LOT longer for Non-Res.

No parallel Non-Res draws in BC.

Residents have a considerably longer rifle season.

Just sayin'...
Nog

[silvicon]

I think the BC LEH system is OK.
Saskatchewan has lots less people than BC, a lot less resident hunters and indians. Nearly no roads north of Saskatoon.
Many more game species here in BC than in SK.

[GoatGuy]

So I was talking to my friend from work who is from SK, and goes back there every year to hunt. Why is it that their system is sooooooo freaking much better than ours, yet the powers to be here cant pull their head out of the a**es and come up with a better system! Sk basically has 4 pools the way I understand it each year you dont get drawn you move up a pool by the time you hit the final pool if you havent been drawn you get a draw that year!?!?!?!? Seems pretty fair to me no one goes more than 4yrs without something what a NEAT CONCEPT!!!!!!!! This reduced odds system here is BS it doesnt work and there is no transparency is our system?????

Sounds good, but that isn't the way the system works and definitely ain't the way it would work in BC.

Always sounds better when the conversation is misinformed.

[d6dan]

I think the BC LEH system is OK.
Saskatchewan has lots less people than BC, a lot less resident hunters and indians. Nearly no roads north of Saskatoon.
Many more game species here in BC than in SK.

Sask pop is 1.07 mil and BC is 4.6 mil

[.330 Dakota]

X2
Couldn't have said it bettor.
Kenny

x3,,,I lived in Ont where the total moose season was leh and only 7 days long in some areas,,,the deer is 14 days long with no Sunday hunting allowed...BC is blessed and we should appreciate it

[happyhunter]

I didn't a rosie, kamloops sheep, or bison draw... ****ing system is flawed!!

[kevan]

I think the BC LEH system is OK.
Saskatchewan has lots less people than BC, a lot less resident hunters and indians. Nearly no roads north of Saskatoon.
Many more game species here in BC than in SK.

Hah !! Nearly no roads north of Saskatoon is the dumbest statement I've ever seen on the internet !!
There were more roads north of Saskatoon 100 years ago than where you live !
Have you ever been out of your back yard ??

[Geo.338]

Just about every time this topic comes up ,and someone says that such and such province or usa has a better system for LEH than ours . Someone always points out how it can't work here in BC on high demand species like sheep and rosies and high odds hunts for moose and bison and such . Saskatchewan is no different and I still think our system is better except I do not agree with enhanced odds .

[bugler]

Everyone else does it. Yes, when the odds are 100 to 1 a priority system won't make a diff but with the ones between 2 and 10 to 1 we would see an improvement, and we would not have individuals drawing difficult tags multiple times while the rest of us watch.

Alberta and Sask have been doing it for many years. You will never hear someone from there say they wish their system was like ours. It seems that the wildlife branch has its heels dug in and they refuse to change. We have been asking for at least 20 years for BC to pick up the phone and find out how all of our neighbors do it and I don't understand why they won't.

[dana]

People who look to Alta and Sask need to start comparing apples to apples. The majority of their tags are for what??? DEER!!! So what they can go in a pool and hunt deer every few years? Here we can hunt deer every year for over 3 months a year all with a RIFLE! Think about it people. Get ur heads out of your asses and compare the systems fairly. I know numerous Yanks that would love to have our system. They have to pay thousands of dollars every year to put in for once in a lifetime tags in multiple states if they want a good tag. In many units if you started putting in at age ten, you might be lucky to draw by age 70. You think that is better than what we have? The majority of hunters in the Western States can't even hunt deer in their back yards without waiting years. You want that??? I have been on many a Western Hunting website and all the Yanks say the same thing, they wish they could have the hunting opportunity we have here. We by far have the best hunting for the most species than any other jurisdiction in North America. And the vast majority of that is with long GOS seasons where we aren't restricted to a primitive weapon. Why in the world would anyone in BC bitch about that?

[yama49]

People who look to Alta and Sask need to start comparing apples to apples. The majority of their tags are for what??? DEER!!! So what they can go in a pool and hunt deer every few years? Here we can hunt deer every year for over 3 months a year all with a RIFLE! Think about it people. Get ur heads out of your asses and compare the systems fairly. I know numerous Yanks that would love to have our system. They have to pay thousands of dollars every year to put in for once in a lifetime tags in multiple states if they want a good tag. In many units if you started putting in at age ten, you might be lucky to draw by age 70. You think that is better than what we have? The majority of hunters in the Western States can't even hunt deer in their back yards without waiting years. You want that??? I have been on many a Western Hunting website and all the Yanks say the same thing, they wish they could have the hunting opportunity we have here. We by far have the best hunting for the most species than any other jurisdiction in North America. And the vast majority of that is with long GOS seasons where we aren't restricted to a primitive weapon. Why in the world would anyone in BC bitch about that?

I agreee, im just happy to hunt almost every specie, without leh. Leh is a bonus to me..

[Gateholio]

Heck, doesn't ANYBODY read the sticky at the top of the Mainland Hunting forum about 'ASK YOUR LEH QUESTIONS HERE?"

All will be revealed....;)

[shed-hunter1]

I didn't a rosie, kamloops sheep, or bison draw... ****ing system is flawed!!

hah thats funny stuff

[1/2 slam]

Nothin wrong our system its works like a lottery draw should. How do you have a pool system like that when you have hunts that are 1000:1 ? We have the most animals on GOS than any province and your complaining ? If you want that moose tag so bad , head to the upper half of our province and shoot one. For one there isnt a place in North America where you can hunt 3 different kinds of sheep and goats over the counter. I dont know why people complain when they generally put in for tags that are over 20:1 and never win.

Well here's the answer. I'm close to 30 years applying for island elk. There are many on this site that are around there and some past 30 years. Numerous guys have drawn 2. I know of several who've drawn 3. One guy drew white river 3 times in 7 years.I see a huge problem here. In fact something stinks.

[Rubicon500]

Well here's the answer. I'm close to 30 years applying for island elk. There are many on this site that are around there and some past 30 years. Numerous guys have drawn 2. I know of several who've drawn 3. One guy drew white river 3 times in 7 years.I see a huge problem here. In fact something stinks.

Its a lottery draw , alot like getting struck by lighting some ppl will get hit twice before others ever do. Well half slam do us all a favour and move to a differnt country , good luck hunting rosevelt elk there.

[6616]

Sask pop is 1.07 mil and BC is 4.6 mil

There's also 95,000 resident hunters in BC and 35,000 in Saskatchewan and non-residents are not allowed to hunt many LEH species in Saskatchewan.

The odds of drawing a Mule Deer buck in Saskatchewan is 4:1, that's why they have only 4 pools and each hunter gets drawn every forth year....!

If the odds were 20:1 like moose in Region 4 one absolutely wouldn't be getting a tag every forth year because it would be necessary to have approximately 20 pools,,,, priority points/pool systems don't look so attractive when odds are that poor, in fact they suck, and administrative costs and data processing gets much more complicated and very expensive.

There are some hunts in BC where priority pool or points systems would work but the majority of our hunts have odds that are just too high for it to work at the same level of effectiveness. Actually the high odds hunts in Alberta (like sheep) are all random draws just like in BC for that very reason.

[Moose Guide]

Then have a boo at pretty much ALL of the Western States.

B.C. hunting would be way better if hunters from across Canada and the U.S.A. could all apply for our LEH hunts and hunt here without a guide! We should also change it to MEH(Multiple Entry Hunting) so that people with deep pockets could put in 100 entries for each species, that ott to improve things! We should put everthing on LEH so each hunter has the opputunity to hunt does and bucks on LEH if they want to! Or , if it is so much better somewhere else, feel free to move there but please stop with the crying!!!

[The Dude]

I did a very scientific analysis of our system, and it boiled down to this:

Did I get my Roosevelt Elk Draw?

Yes= System works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

No= We need to seriously re-vamp this archaic, deeply flawed system!!

I should be a Consultant for something........

[Walking Buffalo]

Lots of misconceptions about the Alberta draw system.




Their system will not work here, I cannot remember the whole reason, but it has something to do stats and how it all works. There was an explanation on the LEH question thread about it.

Alberta's system in all private and is run by a corporation that needs to make money......not really sure what the rush is anyways, who really cares if it is in one month, 6 weeks or 6 days.....you must have been crazy at Christmas time:smile:

If you do not like the system, save your $$$ and go to Alberta. More moose and elk for us BC hunters.

As others have said, we have the best hunting in Canada, so we really have no reason to complain.

It'a a lottery, plain and simple.

Cheers

SS


The Alberta Draw system is not private. It is a provincial government system that has contracted IBM to run the phone and internet draw applications and selections.

I'm not saying that having IBM run the draws is a good thing. While they do an admirable job, they are too expensive. The Ab Gov. pays them way too much for this service (paid as a % of draw applications).






Everyone else does it. Yes, when the odds are 100 to 1 a priority system won't make a diff but with the ones between 2 and 10 to 1 we would see an improvement, and we would not have individuals drawing difficult tags multiple times while the rest of us watch.

Alberta and Sask have been doing it for many years. You will never hear someone from there say they wish their system was like ours. It seems that the wildlife branch has its heels dug in and they refuse to change. We have been asking for at least 20 years for BC to pick up the phone and find out how all of our neighbors do it and I don't understand why they won't.


Actually, there are discussions to change our draw system to include more straight random draws.

No system is perfect. In Alberta, we have draws on the priority system that are statistically impossible for anyone to ever draw in their lifetime except for those who applied in the first year of the draw's existance. New hunters will never have a chance at these tags until changes are made.






People who look to Alta and Sask need to start comparing apples to apples. The majority of their tags are for what??? DEER!!! So what they can go in a pool and hunt deer every few years? Here we can hunt deer every year for over 3 months a year all with a RIFLE! Think about it people. Get ur heads out of your asses and compare the systems fairly. I know numerous Yanks that would love to have our system. They have to pay thousands of dollars every year to put in for once in a lifetime tags in multiple states if they want a good tag. In many units if you started putting in at age ten, you might be lucky to draw by age 70. You think that is better than what we have? The majority of hunters in the Western States can't even hunt deer in their back yards without waiting years. You want that??? I have been on many a Western Hunting website and all the Yanks say the same thing, they wish they could have the hunting opportunity we have here. We by far have the best hunting for the most species than any other jurisdiction in North America. And the vast majority of that is with long GOS seasons where we aren't restricted to a primitive weapon. Why in the world would anyone in BC bitch about that?












You forgot that we also have Moose, Elk, Mountain Goats, Bighorn sheep (rams and ewes), Pronghorn Antelope, Wood Bison and Turkey on Draw.




The Alberta system has it's advantages and disadvantages. We are experiencing some difficulties with the straight priority system. As the number of applicants increase, many tags are becoming impossible to draw in a long lifetime. There needs to be and will be changes to our draw system.

[riflebuilder]

Overall we have the most hunting opertunities of any group of hunters in North America, so we need to appreciate that. LEH's are great if you get one if not there is an open season somewhere for most species if you really have to go hunt them. The system is not perfect but it is the most fair. As others have stated there are hunts in AB that if you did not apply the first year you will never draw the tag. And I really do not want to go to a LEH just to hunt deer.

[saskbooknut]

Every LEH model has its plus and minus factors. Saskatchewan's lottery is based on random draw from a priority pool - C, B, A and Super "A" with randomness in your pool. The rationale is that without randomness new hunters would have no chance at all in the most desired zones and most desired animals.

I lived for years with the BC LEH and have now been in the Sask system for quite a while. You would be no further ahead in Saskatchewan's Super "A" pool if there are 500 or 1000 applicants and 10 tags for the zone you want - say farmland Moose or Elk.

Competition is pretty stiff for the best zones for Mule Deer either sex these days too.

As for length of general open season in Saskatchewan - for Whitetails - all September for Archery, all October for Muzzle Loading Rifle, through most of October and November in the Northern zones for Whitetail with rifle.

Only the rifle season in the farmland, and rifle season for non-resident Canadians is short. Of course, as a non-Resident of BC these days, I have no opportunity at all in my old home province for deer without a guide.

Mule deer and antelope are entirely resident draws ( antelope currently closed due to severe winter kill a year ago).

And then we have Upland Birds and magnificent Waterfowl hunting.

From the perspective of this BC boy - Saskatchewan hunting opportunities are second to no one's. The only thing I miss are some majestic mountains in the background.

[showtime]

I think you boys got roped into this by curt.

[kevan]

Post # 36.... best post in this thread.

[trapman]

It would be nice to do something with the unused tags ,say if they were given back within 2 weeks of the draw .They could be reissued but theygive out a larger number of tages knowing a certan percentage would not be used . Anyway we live and hunt in one of the worlds best areas ,we should be greatfull for what we have .I have talked to many hunters from around the wold and BC is the place they would pick to live

[dana]

Every LEH model has its plus and minus factors. Saskatchewan's lottery is based on random draw from a priority pool - C, B, A and Super "A" with randomness in your pool. The rationale is that without randomness new hunters would have no chance at all in the most desired zones and most desired animals.

I lived for years with the BC LEH and have now been in the Sask system for quite a while. You would be no further ahead in Saskatchewan's Super "A" pool if there are 500 or 1000 applicants and 10 tags for the zone you want - say farmland Moose or Elk.

Competition is pretty stiff for the best zones for Mule Deer either sex these days too.

As for length of general open season in Saskatchewan - for Whitetails - all September for Archery, all October for Muzzle Loading Rifle, through most of October and November in the Northern zones for Whitetail with rifle.

Only the rifle season in the farmland, and rifle season for non-resident Canadians is short. Of course, as a non-Resident of BC these days, I have no opportunity at all in my old home province for deer without a guide.

Mule deer and antelope are entirely resident draws ( antelope currently closed due to severe winter kill a year ago).

And then we have Upland Birds and magnificent Waterfowl hunting.

From the perspective of this BC boy - Saskatchewan hunting opportunities are second to no one's. The only thing I miss are some majestic mountains in the background.

You could come to your old home of BC and hunt every year without a guide. As a Canadian Resident all you need is a BC hunter to get an Accompany Permit and host you. It is a pretty easy process. No guide needed. Just an old BC friend or perhaps a new one.

As for resident hunting, here in BC we can hunt mule deer every year for over 3 months with a RIFLE!!!! And get this, we can harvest 3 mule deer bucks a year if we so choose. Hmmm, don't think Alta or Sask have that opportunity now do they?

Again I will remind people that in BC you can hunt Sheep (Cali Bighorn, Rocky Bighorn, Stones, Dalls), Rocky Mtn Goats, Canada Moose, Mountain Caribou, Elk (Rocky Mtn, Rosevelt), Deer (Whitetail, Mule, Columbian Blacktail, Sitka Blacktail), Bison, Grizzly Bear, Black Bear, Cougar, Wolf, Wolverine, Lynx, Bobcat, and countless other small game and game birds. The only thing you need LEH for is Bison, Grizz, Rosevelt elk and Dalls. The rest can be hunted all with over the counter tags and general open seasons. Many of those seasons are very very liberal in length.

There is no other jurisdiction in North America that can come close to that kind of opportunity.

[Brez]

Their system will not work here, I cannot remember the whole reason, but it has something to do stats and how it all works. There was an explanation on the LEH question thread about it.

Alberta's system in all private and is run by a corporation that needs to make money......not really sure what the rush is anyways, who really cares if it is in one month, 6 weeks or 6 days.....you must have been crazy at Christmas time:smile:

If you do not like the system, save your $$$ and go to Alberta. More moose and elk for us BC hunters.

As others have said, we have the best hunting in Canada, so we really have no reason to complain.

It'a a lottery, plain and simple.

Cheers

SS

Well, actually, other than bird hunting, I do hunt more days in Alberta. There I can go out and see quality deer almost every day. Way less hunting pressure (don't have to race to my spot and look over my shoulder to see if anyone is following). There is no doubt that that we have liberal seasons here for deer and such and we can hunt species that they don't have, but we don't have pronghorn either. They only give out 2 non-resident bighorn sheep permits per year and guess what?......I'm due to get drawn in the next couple of years. Around here, I have been unsuccessful at West Kootenay elk Leh and Kootenay moose Leh since they've been on the LEH system. I'm just not lucky. I know of others who have had 3 to 5 draws for the elk. They are lucky. It's frustrating for guys like me. oh, by the way, since I'm not lucky I don't by lotto tickets either. I do agree that where the odds are ridiculouly high, it makes way more sense to have a lottery. Hardly any one would apply otherwise. Hmmm, maybe not a bad thing.
The other part of the B.C. LEH system that is Stone-aged is the paper cards. MY GOD!! This is the year 2012! A simple phone call or a couple of minutes on-line and it's done with the Alberta system. And at half the cost. I don't get where you say that they "need to make money". I think that B.C.'s system is costing taxpayers a lot more than it has to.
One thing I do know and agree with other people on this thread, is that hunting is so far down on our government's priority that it barely registers. It would be nice it they allocated more resources (both money and people) to properly manage hunting and wildlife management.
To close, all I'm saying is that the Alberta system has worked better and easier for me.

Rant over....Done!
Good luck and good hunting all.

[Rackmastr]

You could come to your old home of BC and hunt every year without a guide. As a Canadian Resident all you need is a BC hunter to get an Accompany Permit and host you. It is a pretty easy process. No guide needed. Just an old BC friend or perhaps a new one.

As for resident hunting, here in BC we can hunt mule deer every year for over 3 months with a RIFLE!!!! And get this, we can harvest 3 mule deer bucks a year if we so choose. Hmmm, don't think Alta or Sask have that opportunity now do they?

Again I will remind people that in BC you can hunt Sheep (Cali Bighorn, Rocky Bighorn, Stones, Dalls), Rocky Mtn Goats, Canada Moose, Mountain Caribou, Elk (Rocky Mtn, Rosevelt), Deer (Whitetail, Mule, Columbian Blacktail, Sitka Blacktail), Bison, Grizzly Bear, Black Bear, Cougar, Wolf, Wolverine, Lynx, Bobcat, and countless other small game and game birds. The only thing you need LEH for is Bison, Grizz, Rosevelt elk and Dalls. The rest can be hunted all with over the counter tags and general open seasons. Many of those seasons are very very liberal in length.

There is no other jurisdiction in North America that can come close to that kind of opportunity.

Agreed....I just moved to BC and I am simply amazed at the opportunity. I am looking forward to all of the options as I've hunted a lot of what Alberta has to offer and want to experience something a bit different for a while. I cant wait for the opportunity to do a northern hunt next year and be able to plan some hunts in the next few years to experience as much as BC has to offer!

I've lived in Alberta for all of my hunting life. The draw system there is good and has some benefits. Nice that its online, easy to access, and the priority system works well for some cases. People who spend their time applying and building priority are rewarded from some 'better quality' hunts down the road. I waited for 9 years of applying while other friends were drawing 'easier' tags and then drew a pretty stellar hunt and killed a 360" bull on the first day of my hunt. I've also waited for some harder tags to draw and had some great sucessful hunts. There are opportunities for 'every year' stuff as well and easy draws which makes it nice if you know the odds and the priority needed to draw a tag. Can make planning a bit easier. The online system is miles ahead. Opportunities in Alberta are pretty special too for certain tags like pronghorn, prairie elk, prairie moose, and some pretty diverse hunting opportunities. Each province has their own 'upside' and really depends on what a guy wants or what their goals are.

There are also some VERY impossible tags to draw unless you had been applying for years, and thats where the flaw in the Alberta system comes in. Some draws you will never draw unless you were in the TOP priority pool to begin with. That simply needs to change somehow.

I think a mix of Random lottery based with some 'bonus' or 'preference' points isnt a bad thing. Rewarding applications is good and random lottery is good. A fine mix in between could be a good balance to make things a bit better, but its all speculation now as I'm sure there would be flaws that way as well.

I will be applying on my first LEH next year and am looking forward to it. Interesting conversations for sure. One thing I can say, is I'm happy I made the move to this province and look forward to several years of awesome hunts ahead!!

[Wild one]

You could come to your old home of BC and hunt every year without a guide. As a Canadian Resident all you need is a BC hunter to get an Accompany Permit and host you. It is a pretty easy process. No guide needed. Just an old BC friend or perhaps a new one.

As for resident hunting, here in BC we can hunt mule deer every year for over 3 months with a RIFLE!!!! And get this, we can harvest 3 mule deer bucks a year if we so choose. Hmmm, don't think Alta or Sask have that opportunity now do they?

Again I will remind people that in BC you can hunt Sheep (Cali Bighorn, Rocky Bighorn, Stones, Dalls), Rocky Mtn Goats, Canada Moose, Mountain Caribou, Elk (Rocky Mtn, Rosevelt), Deer (Whitetail, Mule, Columbian Blacktail, Sitka Blacktail), Bison, Grizzly Bear, Black Bear, Cougar, Wolf, Wolverine, Lynx, Bobcat, and countless other small game and game birds. The only thing you need LEH for is Bison, Grizz, Rosevelt elk and Dalls. The rest can be hunted all with over the counter tags and general open seasons. Many of those seasons are very very liberal in length.

There is no other jurisdiction in North America that can come close to that kind of opportunity.


Variety is the only advantage BC has but the quality of the hunt in Alberta I will take over BC. I felt the same way as you till I spent a few years hunting in Alberta. Northern BC is the only thing I missed a little well in Alberta but I would gladly trade off hunting in southern BC to hunt in Alberta any day.

My gas bill was also cheaper as hunting in Alberta involved less travel time too reach good areas to hunt. To hunt the variety in BC it involves a lot of driving.

[Sitkaspruce]

Well, actually, other than bird hunting, I do hunt more days in Alberta. There I can go out and see quality deer almost every day.

There tons of quality deer here as well, they just do not stand out in open fields so they can be seen from a mile away. They are usually holed up in the thick, steep country that makes hunting here in BC so great.....and a lot tougher for some.

Way less hunting pressure (don't have to race to my spot and look over my shoulder to see if anyone is following).

I always get a kick out of this....BC is so huge that if you are hunting where others are, move. I have never really experienced this and have hunted all over BC. When I was hunting in Alberta, it was as crowded in the public areas as I experienced here in BC. Now on the Private land it was different, but that is why we hunted the private land.:smile:

There is no doubt that that we have liberal seasons here for deer and such and we can hunt species that they don't have, but we don't have pronghorn either. They only give out 2 non-resident bighorn sheep permits per year and guess what?......I'm due to get drawn in the next couple of years.

​Why wait when you have great Bighorn Sheep hunting right here in BC, actually close to your back yard.....or are they too hard and the Alberta sheep will be easier and guaranteed?????

Around here, I have been unsuccessful at West Kootenay elk Leh and Kootenay moose Leh since they've been on the LEH system. I'm just not lucky. I know of others who have had 3 to 5 draws for the elk. They are lucky. It's frustrating for guys like me.

Are the WK elk the only elk in BC??? Same for the moose??? And now you don't have to worry about the elk.

oh, by the way, since I'm not lucky I don't by lotto tickets either. I do agree that where the odds are ridiculouly high, it makes way more sense to have a lottery. Hardly any one would apply otherwise. Hmmm, maybe not a bad thing.
The other part of the B.C. LEH system that is Stone-aged is the paper cards. MY GOD!! This is the year 2012! A simple phone call or a couple of minutes on-line and it's done with the Alberta system. And at half the cost. I don't get where you say that they "need to make money". I think that B.C.'s system is costing taxpayers a lot more than it has to.

I agree about the paper system, it need to be upgraded to on on-line system, too many things can go wrong. However, like it was said earlier, IBM runs the Alberta system, and costs a lot of money, outside the regular cost to the government. Here in BC, we are paying the draw people whether they do the draw or not, so I would think it would be cheaper.

One thing I do know and agree with other people on this thread, is that hunting is so far down on our government's priority that it barely registers. It would be nice it they allocated more resources (both money and people) to properly manage hunting and wildlife management.
To close, all I'm saying is that the Alberta system has worked better and easier for me.

Rant over....Done!
Good luck and good hunting all.

Just had to point out what I think of your comments:wink:......good luck in Alberta.

Cheers

SS

[dana]

Variety is the only advantage BC has but the quality of the hunt in Alberta I will take over BC. I felt the same way as you till I spent a few years hunting in Alberta. Northern BC is the only thing I missed a little well in Alberta but I would gladly trade off hunting in southern BC to hunt in Alberta any day.

My gas bill was also cheaper as hunting in Alberta involved less travel time too reach good areas to hunt. To hunt the variety in BC it involves a lot of driving.

I've always experienced a great quality hunt regardless what I hunt here in BC. A cousin and I just hosted other family members from Alberta this spring and they found the experience top notch here. We never saw another soul and saw a ton of game.

I've also never found the quality of the game lacking either as I have personally killed some great trophy class animals and been involved in many others. While they don't stand out in the open, we actually have to HUNT here and that is what I enjoy.

[kevan]

While they don't stand out in the open, we actually have to HUNT here and that is what I enjoy.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and if you don't think you need to hunt there, try getting within shooting range of a nervous Pronghorn or trophy Whitetail, either one will make our BC Mulies look like sitting ducks.

And yes the LEH system sucks here, it took me 13 years to get drawn in zones which had very low, almost sure-fire chances to get drawn, while at the same time neighbors and buddies were drawn consecutively.... go figure ..
A lot of posters on here know SFA about hunting on the Prairies.
BC hunting is awesome, no argument there, but study up before criticising the Prairies eh ?

[hunter1993ap]

I've always experienced a great quality hunt regardless what I hunt here in BC. A cousin and I just hosted other family members from Alberta this spring and they found the experience top notch here. We never saw another soul and saw a ton of game.

I've also never found the quality of the game lacking either as I have personally killed some great trophy class animals and been involved in many others. While they don't stand out in the open, we actually have to HUNT here and that is what I enjoy.

well said! the hunt is what keeps me going. seeing glimpses of a huge mule deer crashing through the thick lodgepole at 30 yards is way better than watching a huge deer over a 1000 yrds away high tailing through a field. i'll stay in bc because there are huge animals here as well that can handle very liberal seasons because of the terrain. i dont care about the LEH anymore, as i cant get a draw but mabey one day i will.

[Wild one]

well said! the hunt is what keeps me going. seeing glimpses of a huge mule deer crashing through the thick lodgepole at 30 yards is way better than watching a huge deer over a 1000 yrds away high tailing through a field. i'll stay in bc because there are huge animals here as well that can handle very liberal seasons because of the terrain. i dont care about the LEH anymore, as i cant get a draw but mabey one day i will.


You seem to forget the Rockies and foot hills of Alberta who says you need to hunt prairie or farm land

[Gateholio]

This discussion comes up every year around this time...

BC has great non LEH hunting opportunities, and I'm sure it's the same for Alberta and Saskatchewan.

I hunted a bit as a teen, then didn't hunt again until I was 25...I didn't even know LEH was an option for the first 5 years of my adult hunting career. I had very acceptable and satisfying hunting seasons every year, hunting deer, bear, elk, goat and moose. When I learned about LEH, I applied for lots of hunts for years, but was rarely successful. Somehow, I managed to have great hunting seasons regardless.

LEH is a lottery, they are bonus hunts, but make no mistake about it- of you don't get any L:EH hunts, you can certainly have an incredible hunting season without them. Where else but BC can you hunt sheep, goat, elk, moose, deer,black bear etc without ever winning a draw?

If I never ever get another LEH draw for the rest of my days, I will still have the best hunting opportunity ever, right here in BC

[Ltbullken]

That would be great we could all shoot an island elk every 4 years!

..have an 'opportunity' to hunt an island elk...

[Downwind]

Am I the only one that remembers 'kootenayelkslayer's' dream season last year (other then himself obviously because I'm sure he will be hard pressed to ever top it)? From what I recall he didn't have a single LEH tag for this province. In what other province could you even have the opportunity to do what he did without a draw tag? Here's the link to refresh yourselves and to get you amped for this year's GOS!
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?76526-The-Dream-Season-2011-Harvest-Pic-Heavy!

[Blair]

Saskatchwan: 1.05 million people in 588,276 square km = 1.8 persons per square km

BC: 4.4 million people in 944,735 square km = 4.7 persons per square km

I don't suppose that has anything to do with it???

[rem338win]

Anyone that thinks this system is still ok is on glue and doesnt understand the options. Alberta has full lottery once in a lifetime tags as well (goat and 408 sheep comes to mind) but the majority gathers preference points and is far more realistic and far fairer. And it would work here.
This crap system needs an upgrade.

[hunter1993ap]

we could have a better system, if you win a draw your odds for next years draws decrease and if you dont get drawn they increase. you dont necicarily get a draw every 7 years, or whatever it is, like alberta but you still have better odds if unsuccesfull. it would need a lot planning to work out the kinks, but it should work better than what we have.

[bugler]

I completely agree with Dana and others that our opportunity and variety here are second to none. We certainly don't need to draw a tag to have good hunts here. That does not mean that a crappy system that controls those hunts on LEH can't be improved. Getting a priority system in place to spread the wealth a bit would not take away all of the great GOS opportunities that we have.

[rem338win]

I completely agree with Dana and others that our opportunity and variety here are second to none. We certainly don't need to draw a tag to have good hunts here. That does not mean that a crappy system that controls those hunts on LEH can't be improved. Getting a priority system in place to spread the wealth a bit would not take away all of the great GOS opportunities that we have.

Exactly. And a points pool system works damn well and that is exCtly why the more proactive MNR and SRD's have gone to them.

[Elkhound]

Hunted BC and Alberta. Have to say. Pros and cons to both. To each their own

[Mulehahn]

Lets take a close look at the systems and animals. Ok, I want a Rosie Draw, but I don't like BC's system so I will go to ??? Oh wait, there are no other provinces with a wild Rosie draw. Ok, I will settle for a Grizzly. Damn, BC is the only province I can hunt them. Well that leaves Bison as the only animal I absolutley have to have and LEH for, so lets go to the great Province of Alberta and there priority system, they will get me my bison. Nope, the Bison in Alberta are on a random lottery in same as BC. So, lets me see if I get this straight, Let me move to Saskatchewan and have to "earn a Buck", move to Alberta where unless you started the very first year you will never draw the most coveted tags or face a random lottery, or stay in BC with its Achaic system in which everyone has an equal chance and if I don't get one I will have to settle for a Stone in August, a Mature moose in september, up to 3 bucks (white tail or Mule) in October, ducks in November, and Geese in the winter and black bears in the spring. How Will I Cope?! The other systems are not any better, I like that fact that a guy can take up hunting in his 40s or 50s and still get a chance at a bison or a grizz. Hunter recruitment is not only for kids.

P.S.: I do think it should go electronic.

[bugler]

Lets take a close look at the systems and animals. Ok, I want a Rosie Draw, but I don't like BC's system so I will go to ??? Oh wait, there are no other provinces with a wild Rosie draw. Ok, I will settle for a Grizzly. Damn, BC is the only province I can hunt them. Well that leaves Bison as the only animal I absolutley have to have and LEH for, so lets go to the great Province of Alberta and there priority system, they will get me my bison. Nope, the Bison in Alberta are on a random lottery in same as BC. So, lets me see if I get this straight, Let me move to Saskatchewan and have to "earn a Buck", move to Alberta where unless you started the very first year you will never draw the most coveted tags or face a random lottery, or stay in BC with its Achaic system in which everyone has an equal chance and if I don't get one I will have to settle for a Stone in August, a Mature moose in september, up to 3 bucks (white tail or Mule) in October, ducks in November, and Geese in the winter and black bears in the spring. How Will I Cope?! The other systems are not any better, I like that fact that a guy can take up hunting in his 40s or 50s and still get a chance at a bison or a grizz. Hunter recruitment is not only for kids.

P.S.: I do think it should go electronic.

It isn't our "great" leh system that gives us rosies and stones to hunt. One doesn't beget the other. They could have no closed season no bag limit for both of those species in Alberta and it wouldn't affect the population one bit!

Many US jurisdictions have a hybrid system where a small percentage of the high odds tags go to completely random draw, thus encouraging new hunters to give it a shot, while the majority go to highest priority applicants. Plenty of options for a better system out there, I don't see why this island we call BC won't switch to one of them.

[curt]

:) just look at all the opinions]

[Gateholio]

2. This is probably the single biggest question I get asked. Here is
the answer:

WHY BC DOES NOT USE A POINT PREFERENCE SYSTEM FOR ALLOCATING L.E. HUNTS

Point preference systems and pool systems (which are very similar) are
used in a number of North American jurisdictions. Alberta uses a
system in which points are accumulated each time an individual applies
unsuccessfully. Draws are preferentially given to those with the most
points first; the second most points second, and so on. When the system
reaches a point level where there are more applicants than remaining
available licences, the available licences are randomly assigned at that
point level. Upon being drawn, an applicant's points are deleted and
they start accumulating from zero again.

In 2005, Alberta had 213,749 applications for 71,950 available licences,
with overall average odds of 2.97 to 1. With such odds, on average,
applicants would be drawn roughly every 3 years even in a completely
random system. In B.C.'s 2005 draw, we received 151,972 applications for
26,476 available authorizations for overall average odds of 5.74 to 1,
nearly twice the average odds in Alberta.

If you examine Alberta's hunts in detail, you find that some of their
hunts are very easy to get, with many hunts in their WMU's actually
going undersubscribed. Eleven of their twenty-three categories have a
20% or better overall success rate (ie, odds of 5 to 1 or better),
encompassing 168,613 of their total 213,749 applications (79%). For
these hunts, their system will work very nicely, with people getting
drawn once every 5 years or better. However, with their high odds hunts,
it's a different story. If you want to hunt sheep in Alberta, you will
wait many years to reach the highest point level. In fact, some of
Alberta's sheep and goat hunts are not on a priority system because they
recognize that the demand is so high that nobody would get to hunt until
they reached extreme age. Fortunately, relatively few of Alberta's LEH
opportunities have such high demand, so overall their system meets their
needs.

In B.C. we are not so fortunate. In the 2005 draw, 286 of our 951 LEH
hunts had odds of 10 to 1 or higher, 161 hunts had odds of 20 to 1 or
higher and in 120 cases, the odds were 30 to 1 or higher. In some cases,
they were as high as 600 to 1. In fact, only 465 (about half) of our
hunts had odds of 5 to one or better. These 465 hunts represented only
39,834 applications out of a total of 151,972, therefore, only 26% or
our total applications were for hunts with odds of 5 to 1 or better. In
Alberta, about 80% of applicants are drawn after 3 attempts. In B.C.,
only 13% (19,751) of applicants faced odds of 3 to 1 or better in the
2005 draw, so no such turnover is possible here. Carrying the analysis
further, 41% (62,584) of our applications were for hunts with odds
greater than 10 to 1, 28% (42,992) of our applications were for hunts
with odds greater than 20 to 1 and 24% (36,690 ) of our applications
were for hunts with odds greater than 30 to 1. What this all means is
that if we go to a priority system, nearly half of our applicants can
expect to wait at least a decade, if not many times that, before they
will have any chance of being drawn. In a very few years, for many
hunts, the priority list will be so long that no new person taking up
hunting will have an opportunity to hunt prior to advanced age. Can you
imagine a teenager paying money annually to enter a system that might
provide them with a chance to hunt when they're 65 years old? Having
examined our odds situation, we believe that asking hunters to pay for
so many years before they have any chance of being drawn would be
fraudulent. Indeed, in the early 1980's, Montana scrapped their priority
system for elk because they found that nobody under a certain age would
draw a licence in their lifetime.

One suggestion we have considered relates to periods of ineligibility.
For example, we could decide that once a person has drawn a particular
species, they are not allowed to apply for some period of time.
Unfortunately, for many hunts, even once in a lifetime opportunities
don't help much. Using bison as an example, up to 2006, 38,153 people
have applied for bison in all of the draws that have ever been offered,
but only 1,454 have ever been drawn. If those 1,454 individuals were
barred from ever applying again, that would still leave 36,699 people
applying for 79 licences in the 2006 draw... not much of an improvement.
Additionally, periods of ineligibility have been offered to the BC
Wildlife Federation, but disagreement around the length of such periods
is always intense.

THE BC APPROACH

In British Columbia, we have developed a system we call 'enhanced odds'.
Rather than reward unsuccessful applicants, we reduce the chances of
previously successful applicants. All applicants that are drawn have
their chances reduced by 50% in the following year. In the case of
successful applicants for moose and Roosevelt elk, their chances are
reduced by 66% for the following three draws. This is done for all
species except deer, and the method was developed with the approval of
the BC Wildlife Federation.

The beauty of this system is that it does not discriminate against first
time applicants and it self-adjusts according to demand. If very few
people apply for a given hunt, then the system will automatically adjust
the odds reduction to less than 50% (or less than 66% for moose and
Roosevelt elk). This does not happen very often, but there are always a
few hunts that have low subscription, so there is no point in denying
opportunity to any applicant. This system does not eliminate repeat
success, but it keeps it at a low level.

The two main concerns with point systems are the length of turn-over
time for high odds hunts and the potential for these turn-over times to
discourage hunter recruitment. That being said, introducing a point
system for the compulsory inspection species (caribou, goats, grizzlies
and sheep) may be feasible if hunters want it. These are not entry
level species, so lengthy wait times would not significantly discourage
hunter recruitment.

[Darksith]

I only have 1 thing to say...how are a few people on here entering in both BC and Alberta LEH systems?

[GoatGuy]

I only have 1 thing to say...how are a few people on here entering in both BC and Alberta LEH systems?

Alberta has non-res LEH.

[goatdancer]

Alberta has non-res LEH.

And they have friends who will be their hosts.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Alberta has non-res LEH.


And they have friends who will be their hosts.

But of course you should hire a GO if you want to film the hunt and put it on TV or a DVD that is for sale;). Everyone else should just carry on as usual.

SSS

[Darksith]

sweet, I have friends in alberta that hunt...now I know.