Interesting idea for LEH

[Taurusguy]

My old man and I were thinking the other day (since he didnt get any draws now for 6 years in a row) that wouldnt it be nice if the LEH system would draw you out for a random animal and a random location if there was some areas where tags are left over. His thoughts on that were that it would drum up revenue for some of the small towns if one decided to go to the random draw and give the hunter a chance at a new area if they have never been aswell as something new to venture out and do if you got the funds and time to do so.

Of course I mentioned to him.. "what if that was so and you drew your random draw for a doe in Fort St. Johns. Would you still go?"

His reply was "good point but it would still be nice to have that option"


THoughts?

[scoutlt1]

My old man and I were thinking the other day (since he didnt get any draws now for 6 years in a row) that wouldnt it be nice if the LEH system would draw you out for a random animal and a random location if there was some areas where tags are left over. His thoughts on that were that it would drum up revenue for some of the small towns if one decided to go to the random draw and give the hunter a chance at a new area if they have never been aswell as something new to venture out and do if you got the funds and time to do so.

Of course I mentioned to him.. "what if that was so and you drew your random draw for a doe in Fort St. Johns. Would you still go?"

His reply was "good point but it would still be nice to have that option"


THoughts?

I think it is high time that there was some public (hunting community) consultation on what/how the LEH could be done better and more fairly. Maybe it is as fair as it can be, but I don't think so, and I think and know that in this day and age there has to be a better way.
I don't have the answers of course, but ideas like yours, and many others should be considered by the "powers that be"....although that probably will never happen....

[BCLongshot]

Some people are so bitter. They never get draws but we always get draws. Study the LEH system and truly understand how it works then work the system. Like people who get skunked when they do get an LEH.

[BiG Boar]

They get rid of a lot of the extra tags with second choice. So I don't think that there would be many tags that would be available for your idea.

Like BCLS says: Study the system and work it.

[scoutlt1]

I don't know if it's about being "bitter"...I try for a few draws each year but never count on them. As far as I'm concerned there are so much GOS in BC that there is lots of opportunity regardless.
That being said, maybe it's time we did away with "repeat" winners....you get a draw one year, you aren't eligible for the same draw next year?
"Successful applicants have their chances reduced in subsequent draws in order to improve the chances of those who have been unsuccessful".
That's from the Gov. website...so that would mean in some way they are already doing that.
My thoughts are more along the lines of the OP. Let's all enjoy hunting with the GOS, and if we get an LEH great. But when I know that some people (from personal experience) get a draw 4 years in a row, and I've applied for the same one 9 years in a row without success, it doesn't seem "right" to me.
Ok, maybe a little bitter, but from the perspective of hunting being an experience for "all" to enjoy, I really think there should be a better way to "process" or deal with a lottery type set up...
I'm sure this has been discussed/talked about at naseum...but just my $.02...thats all...

[bighornbob]

My old man and I were thinking the other day (since he didnt get any draws now for 6 years in a row) that wouldnt it be nice if the LEH system would draw you out for a random animal and a random location if there was some areas where tags are left over. His thoughts on that were that it would drum up revenue for some of the small towns if one decided to go to the random draw and give the hunter a chance at a new area if they have never been aswell as something new to venture out and do if you got the funds and time to do so.

Of course I mentioned to him.. "what if that was so and you drew your random draw for a doe in Fort St. Johns. Would you still go?"

His reply was "good point but it would still be nice to have that option"


THoughts?

If you really want an LEH in any part of the province why not apply with your first choice??? Lots of tags and animals where the first choice odds are always below 1:1. Even some areas for grizzly.

Problem with your idea is that say you get a draw by random and then find out you need to charter a plane to go in there you will not probably go. Then the real kicker for you is that your odds are reduced for the next few years.

BHB

[willyqbc]

maybe it's time we did away with "repeat" winners....you get a draw one year, you aren't eligible for the same draw next year?


It would certainly spread out the moose draws some, but they aren't ever going to do that with the premium species like moose due to the fact that those hunters wouldn't pay for an LEH card for moose the following year. Think of how many thousands of moose draws total are given out in this province then times that number by $6 and that how much money would not come in every year. they way they have it now....reduced odds or not, everyone pays their $6 for the moose LEH card!

Chris

[bighornbob]

I think it is high time that there was some public (hunting community) consultation on what/how the LEH could be done better and more fairly. Maybe it is as fair as it can be, but I don't think so, and I think and know that in this day and age there has to be a better way.
I don't have the answers of course, but ideas like yours, and many others should be considered by the "powers that be"....although that probably will never happen....


They had one a few years ago. I went and put in my 2 cents. The big problem that was talked about was a lot of the LEH that are given out are never even used. By this the hunter has not even bought a tag. Something like 30-40% of all goat and grizz LEH tag winners do not even buy a tag and go. Lets address that problem first.

If you ask me one way to fix the system, make guys send in the money for the tag when they apply. You apply for grizz it will cost you 6 for the LEH card and 70 for the tag. If you dont get drawn you get your $70 back. A lot of the US states do this and a sheep tag down there is over $1000. It would really keep the guys from applying willy nilly when they only lose 6 bucks.

BHB

[Gr8 white hunter]

Maybe it's time the ombudsman is contacted and they start a investigation on how the draw is done.How do some people get draw after draw and some get nil year after friggen year. The wife used to work for the ombudsman so I think I will get the info we need and get the ball rolling,stir the pot for this clowns that run the LEH.

[300wsm]

LEH can be tweaked but in general I like the idea of having a chance every year as opposed to Alberta's putting in year after year for the same draw when you know you will not hit for sometimes 5-6 years away. God forbid you miss a year and lose your seniority.
Even though I prefer the BC lotto style Alberta's system is managed better in my opinion and they do allow unfilled LEH draws to be picked up online if you were unsuccessful in your draw. This makes sense to me as you can better actively manage the populations and pick up some extra revenue.
As a side note that is how i found my honey hole that has gotten us our meat year after year consistantly for 7 years!

300wsm

[scoutlt1]

I like that idea, to pay for the tag, pus the card, then the $ comes back if you don't "win".
I really do enjoy reading the posts from people that get an LEH draw for an animal in an area they have never hunted for/in. The responses that come back full of information are great. But do we really want that? As stated already, once a hunter gets a draw, then finds out he/she needs to pay for a fly in, hike 2k feet just to get a chance at an animal, then decides to "forget it, not worth it"....meanwhile another hunter has prepped for the last 6 years for the same hunt only to get nothing every year....
Don't get me wrong, I hope for all of us hunters to have a chance at a trophy...no matter how remote the chance, but is this a "fair and proper" way to administer this whole thing??

(appologies to the OP....I was wanting to start a thread on this thought...but don't want to hijack this one)

[Taurusguy]

Its ok .. you can jack this thread .. its great to see the ideas floating around.

[dana]

I'm one of those that get draws on a regular basis. This is the second year in a row that I have drawn moose. Why??? Because I put in for $hitty hunts. There is a reason why some hunts are 2:1 or 1:1 or less. It normally is because the access is really bad and the amount of animals to be seen is next to nil. You and every other hunter that bitches about never getting a draw can put in for these hunts and be successful on the draw just like I am. But nope, you guys put in for high odds hunts and then bitch about guys like me who get drawn every year. That is BS. Some of the tags I've drawn are like a kick in the nuts. Like my moose tag this year. It was my second choice. The only way you can get a second choice is if it is undersubscribed. That means less than 1:1 odds. I know for a fact that I'll be working my ass off and probably won't even see a moose. But that is how I like it. I'd rather hunt every year than sit on the sidelines and wait for the LEH gods to shine down on me with an easy to fill tag. All 3 tags that I drew this year are very low odds hunts. So you think I should only get one of those low odds tags and then sit out for several years because I was somehow Lucky??? I can tell ya right now, I have no luck. I can't even win a coffee in the Roll up the Rim. I've had tons of LEH tags over the years and only once did I get a tag with draw odds better than 3:1. There is no luck involved in drawing those tags. It is just a matter that nobody else wants them.

[Ron.C]

I agree with above that there should be some mechanism to allow for a re-distribution of tags if the winner of an LEH Draw knows he/she can't or won't use the Tag they have won. I do know that sometimes things happen that preclude someone from hunting an LEH that are out of their control.

As for the draw as it stands right now, I put in for relitively good odd LEH draws knowing they are in harder to reach places, upping my odds of getting a TAG. But I still bank on not getting drawn and have a plan to hunt GOS. The tag I really want to get is the Island Elk draw where I live. I've never got it and missed it agian this year. Oh well, maybe next year.

As I see it, there is little wrong with the current system if it is truely a lottery as they say, which I beleive it is.

[RENO]

As stated already, once a hunter gets a draw, then finds out he/she needs to pay for a fly in, hike 2k feet just to get a chance at an animal, then decides to "forget it, not worth it"....meanwhile another hunter has prepped for the last 6 years for the same hunt only to get nothing every year....

This is a great point! This is in my opinion like , like an area that states you must have permission from land owner to hunt in this MU as the area is mostly private land. The applicant has no permission on any land and submits a tag?? why? even worst gets the draw. I for one try to apply in areas where I know I can access and is suitable for me on all levels of the hunt. It's great to have dream hunts but if it is only a dream and not reality that you will go, and waste a tag, why ruin the odds for someone who really, would do the hunt. Here's another thought, If you are successful in an area, this year, for lets say moose? the draw winner would not be able to apply(this area/animal) the following year, but could the next. This might give others a chance, at a certain area and give last years winners a chance at a new area. I have applied in a high odd area for Elk for 28 years straight and have never got a tag, I keep hoping? but it sure would be nice to experience a try at this species once. right or wrong, just a few thoughts? thanks

[Crazy_Farmer]

LEH can be tweaked but in general I like the idea of having a chance every year as opposed to Alberta's putting in year after year for the same draw when you know you will not hit for sometimes 5-6 years away. God forbid you miss a year and lose your seniority.

300wsm

So you'd rather possibly apply every year and possibly never get draw in your life rather then apply for 5-10 years each yr and know that you've got much better chance of getting that draw.

Seems like a no brainer to me

[Moose Guide]

you are successful in an area, this year, for lets say moose? the draw winner would not be able to apply(this area/animal) the following year,
So, does your family only eat every other year? I like to have a CHANCE at drawing a tag every year!!!

So you'd rather possibly apply every year and possibly never get draw in your life rather then apply for 5-10 years each yr and know that you've got much better chance of getting that draw.

Seems like a no brainer to me

So how long would it take to draw a Kamloops sheep tag? Or an island elk? No real chance for 4 or 5 hundred years as opposed to B.C.'s everyones equal lottery sounds good to you?

It's a no brainer for me, I've drawn 5 low odds moose in 5 years and 6 in 7 years! Learn to play the lottery!!!

[Crazy_Farmer]

No different then prized sheep tags south of us. Some sheep tags are 20 yr ones, you may get it before then, but you still know if you keep applying you should get it in the end.

The government should look into that becuase if thats the case, you know youve got that draw money every year till you get it. I've drawn squat in 5 years, one goat tag 1:1 only. I'd sure as hell be happier applying for island elk knowing at the end of 20 yrs I have a much better chance, then if I applied on our system. Yr 1 to Yr 20 your chances are still the same, no change. I dont see how this system is better.

[Moose Guide]

I've put in for Salmo sheep and Bison almost every year for 20+ years and not been drawn! I understand disapointment, I also didn't get any leh tags for about 10 years until I learned to play the odds. I didn't rail and whine about not being drawn, I understood that it is a LOTTERY. Lets try this. How do we change lotto 649 so I can win? Fair is everyone having an even chance ! Some sheep and the bison tags could be made 1 in a lifetime till the demand lessens and Island elk could go to 1 in 20 years or so, but it would be disapointing not to have a chance at moose every year!

[bc mike]

I like the idea of mandatory buying tags as part of LEH. Keeps the antis paying more and us more sincere. If the winners of LEH moose draw this year knew that they could not get a moose draw next year, that would cost the system a lot of money over all species. I believe the LEH system does need tweaking, I know several hunters that have not been drawn in 12+ years when applying for 3:1 odds.

[scoutlt1]

I've put in for Salmo sheep and Bison almost every year for 20+ years and not been drawn! I understand disapointment, I also didn't get any leh tags for about 10 years until I learned to play the odds. I didn't rail and whine about not being drawn, I understood that it is a LOTTERY. Lets try this. How do we change lotto 649 so I can win? Fair is everyone having an even chance ! Some sheep and the bison tags could be made 1 in a lifetime till the demand lessens and Island elk could go to 1 in 20 years or so, but it would be disapointing not to have a chance at moose every year!

I agree to a point, but we all have a "chance" at a moose every year, somewhere in B.C., without LEH.
Maybe separate the "once in a lifetime" LEHs from the "x amount of moose or anterless mule deer per MU" LEHs??
Again, I don't want to sound like I'm "bitching"...I'm fine with no LEH draw and just going with GOS.
Just a discussion as far as I'm concerned, and discussion/opinions are all good from where I sit.

[pg83]

I didn't get drawn for anything this year, but I am not discouraged by this. the goat and moose draws I put in for every year change from under 1:1 odds to max 2.5:1 odds. I usually get one of these tags every year, only twice in the last decade have I missed both. The Sheep, Rosie, Bison, Grizzly tags I put in for are not good odds so I really don't expect to get them, but if I ever do I will change all my plans to revolve around them. They are once in a lifetime hunts to me. Many people have stated that you need to learn to play the system and they are completely correct. It is a lottery and your odds are the same every year. Just because it is a 10:1 odd hunt does not mean you will get that tag in within 10 years. You could get none, you could get 10. No point whining when you fail to get these long shot draws. Apply for lower odd hunts and get a draw. On second thought, don't. I like getting my moose and/or goat draw just about every year.

[dana]

How would turning something to a OIL tag help with the draw odds? Kamloops Sheep was at 988:1 odds last year. So you are saying if we take the last 25 years of guys who have drawn that tag out of the equation, suddenly, you are going to have a better chance at drawing? So the odds then go to 963:1. Woopee!

[Everett]

I understand the bitterness but personaly this sytem has worked for me in the 8 years I have hunted in BC between my wife and I we have recieved the following including this year were we got 5 draws

Moose 8 draws
goat 5 draws
wt doe 3 draws
md doe 1 draw
VI Elk 1 draw
cow elk 1 draw

Still have not got my ashnola sheep draw after 7 years though so I to am bitter:mad:

[RENO]

[QUOTE=Moose Guide;1171765]you are successful in an area, this year, for lets say moose? the draw winner would not be able to apply(this area/animal) the following year,
So, does your family only eat every other year? I like to have a CHANCE at drawing a tag every year!!!

my statement was only suggesting no draw in the area you won last year, you could apply in another area for moose , as for your family eating depending on a moose draw? that's another story. I know it's a lotto draw but the odds on eating depending on that are not good. LOL I know what you mean

If you are successful in an area, this year, for lets say moose? the draw winner would not be able to apply(this area/animal) the following year, but could the next. This might give others a chance, at a certain area and give last years winners a chance at a new area.

I like to win every year as does everyone else, but as posted by Dana the low odd draws are the ones you need select to win but chances of being successful are slim. I for one would love an Island Elk draw but reality is, if I want one I am going to have to go elsewhere to get it. System is fine but like all things could be better.

[vip_ruger]

I agree im in the same vote put in for low odds and youll get drawn. Like g-bear this spring 1.4-1 odds but I had to hunt for 16 days straight to fill my tag

I'm one of those that get draws on a regular basis. This is the second year in a row that I have drawn moose. Why??? Because I put in for $hitty hunts. There is a reason why some hunts are 2:1 or 1:1 or less. It normally is because the access is really bad and the amount of animals to be seen is next to nil. You and every other hunter that bitches about never getting a draw can put in for these hunts and be successful on the draw just like I am. But nope, you guys put in for high odds hunts and then bitch about guys like me who get drawn every year. That is BS. Some of the tags I've drawn are like a kick in the nuts. Like my moose tag this year. It was my second choice. The only way you can get a second choice is if it is undersubscribed. That means less than 1:1 odds. I know for a fact that I'll be working my ass off and probably won't even see a moose. But that is how I like it. I'd rather hunt every year than sit on the sidelines and wait for the LEH gods to shine down on me with an easy to fill tag. All 3 tags that I drew this year are very low odds hunts. So you think I should only get one of those low odds tags and then sit out for several years because I was somehow Lucky??? I can tell ya right now, I have no luck. I can't even win a coffee in the Roll up the Rim. I've had tons of LEH tags over the years and only once did I get a tag with draw odds better than 3:1. There is no luck involved in drawing those tags. It is just a matter that nobody else wants them.

[scoutlt1]

Well I've looked at some of the threads on this topic on here from the past. Looks like it's been beaten to death.
So I will say good luck to those that got a tag this year, and happy hunting!

[reach]

All this talk about redistributing "unused" authorizations isn't going to improve anything. The number of authorizations issued already takes into account the fact that some will not be used.

It's all about the annual harvest. Anything you do to make it more likely that people actually hunt their authorizations, or are more likely to be awarded an authorization, will only end up reducing the overall number of authorizations issued until you get back to the same harvest at the end of the day.

[springpin]

I put in for 3 draws every year... 1 high odd draw, always Rosie Elk. 1 medium odd draw, always moose. And 1 low odd draw for Goat(for 2 years). And I got another goat draw this year(2 for 3). Last year I took my first goat, this year ill get a bigger goat. It is a lottery, and i'm ok with how it goes. If I don't get a draw...I'll still hunt. And I'll still hunt goat, and moose in GOS.

Good luck to the folks who got draws. And good luck to those who didnt. We all have an epic hunting season coming up, enjoy it!!

[lorneparker1]

you are successful in an area, this year, for lets say moose? the draw winner would not be able to apply(this area/animal) the following year,
So, does your family only eat every other year? I like to have a CHANCE at drawing a tag every year!!!

So you'd rather possibly apply every year and possibly never get draw in your life rather then apply for 5-10 years each yr and know that you've got much better chance of getting that draw.

Seems like a no brainer to me

So how long would it take to draw a Kamloops sheep tag? Or an island elk? No real chance for 4 or 5 hundred years as opposed to B.C.'s everyones equal lottery sounds good to you?

It's a no brainer for me, I've drawn 5 low odds moose in 5 years and 6 in 7 years! Learn to play the lottery!!!

I wonder how many family's dont eat because they didnt get a LEH lol. WEAK argument

[GoatGuy]

I'm one of those that get draws on a regular basis. This is the second year in a row that I have drawn moose. Why??? Because I put in for $hitty hunts. There is a reason why some hunts are 2:1 or 1:1 or less. It normally is because the access is really bad and the amount of animals to be seen is next to nil. You and every other hunter that bitches about never getting a draw can put in for these hunts and be successful on the draw just like I am. But nope, you guys put in for high odds hunts and then bitch about guys like me who get drawn every year. That is BS. Some of the tags I've drawn are like a kick in the nuts. Like my moose tag this year. It was my second choice. The only way you can get a second choice is if it is undersubscribed. That means less than 1:1 odds. I know for a fact that I'll be working my ass off and probably won't even see a moose. But that is how I like it. I'd rather hunt every year than sit on the sidelines and wait for the LEH gods to shine down on me with an easy to fill tag. All 3 tags that I drew this year are very low odds hunts. So you think I should only get one of those low odds tags and then sit out for several years because I was somehow Lucky??? I can tell ya right now, I have no luck. I can't even win a coffee in the Roll up the Rim. I've had tons of LEH tags over the years and only once did I get a tag with draw odds better than 3:1. There is no luck involved in drawing those tags. It is just a matter that nobody else wants them.

While a bit f-d esque, you're 100% correct. There's really two approaches here: people that want to hunt critters and people that want to hunt LEH.

I get at least 2 draws every year, often more. Goat, grizz and moose are almost always under 3:1 and often less than 1:1. For big ticket species such as Rosie and Bison I've always put in for the places/times with the lowest odds. It means working harder, longer, later, less access, but I get to go HUNTING. I'd way rather go hunting rosies for a week in the pouring rain, eating out of a bag, surrounded by grizzly bears and not seeing an elk a couple times in my life, than possibly going out hunting once in my life driving through cutblocks and drying my stuff out in a hotel every night. The one draw I've never received is Ashnola sheep which is usually 8:1 to 14:1, and I don't ever expect to get it. I put in there for the country and the experience more than anything else.

Good odds are <2:1. In my mind if you're putting in for anything over that, don't expect to get drawn.

[Whonnock Boy]

Good point reach. I do however like the idea of paying for the tags in which one enters. It might slow down those that "waste" tags which seems to be the pet peeve of many.

I did learn not that long ago how second choices truly work. At one time I had thought that if you are drawn high enough, and your first choice was not available, your second choice would be issued if still available. I know now that they go through everyone's first choice first, then if hunts are underutilized, they are given out as second choices. I wish it was how I thought, not how it is.

I think that the way it is now discourages hunters from putting into those high odd, once in a lifetime hunts like VI elk. Does a guy put in for the dream draw, or the meat draw? If it did work this way, yes the odds would go up for those draws, but at least a person could enter, and still have a chance at a lower odds hunt that fills the freezer. I just think that if you were drawn before others, you should have your choice of hunts.

Just my 2 cents. No matter if they make changes to the system or not, not everyone is going to be happy. It is what it is.

[Moose Guide]

How would turning something to a OIL tag help with the draw odds? Kamloops Sheep was at 988:1 odds last year. So you are saying if we take the last 25 years of guys who have drawn that tag out of the equation, suddenly, you are going to have a better chance at drawing? So the odds then go to 963:1. Woopee!

Some guys gripe if another hunter is drawn for a tough odds hunt more than once, I didn't mean it would make the odds way better, we both know it would still be way out off reach! LOL

[Moose Guide]

[QUOTE=Moose Guide;1171765]you are successful in an area, this year, for lets say moose? the draw winner would not be able to apply(this area/animal) the following year,
So, does your family only eat every other year? I like to have a CHANCE at drawing a tag every year!!!

my statement was only suggesting no draw in the area you won last year, you could apply in another area for moose , as for your family eating depending on a moose draw? that's another story. I know it's a lotto draw but the odds on eating depending on that are not good. LOL I know what you mean

If you are successful in an area, this year, for lets say moose? the draw winner would not be able to apply(this area/animal) the following year, but could the next. This might give others a chance, at a certain area and give last years winners a chance at a new area.

I like to win every year as does everyone else, but as posted by Dana the low odd draws are the ones you need select to win but chances of being successful are slim. I for one would love an Island Elk draw but reality is, if I want one I am going to have to go elsewhere to get it. System is fine but like all things could be better.

I always apply for low odds moose, so your idea wouldn't affect me much as I do a different area almost every year. The problem is that many hunters would still be putting in for high odds hunts and complaining while the low odds crowd would be drawing tags in different areas almost every year, not much would change. My nephew put in at 13:1 and thought those were pretty good odds, hopefully he will listen closer next year.

[moose2]

I like Bighornbobs idea of paying for tags in advance and then being billed for successful hunts, then having payment for non-successful hunts returned.

I like this thought process, it may slow down the anti hunting groups for applying for LEH. I know alot of this goes on so if the money was kept for each successful tag the non hunters may find this to expensive. This would leave better odds for those really planning to use the tags they are trying for. I think having to purchase your hunting license before being able to apply may help as well.
Mike

[Moose Guide]

I wonder how many family's dont eat because they didnt get a LEH lol. WEAK argument

The thought behind that post was that I hunt to eat and if others can't figure out how to get drawn I won't feel guilty getting drawn every year! I like the current system as it works well for me and is very fair!!!

[The Silent Stalker]

**** it, I'm still going to hunt my ass off this year, GOS here I come baby!

[reach]

I like Bighornbobs idea of paying for tags in advance and then being billed for successful hunts, then having payment for non-successful hunts returned.

I like this thought process, it may slow down the anti hunting groups for applying for LEH. I know alot of this goes on so if the money was kept for each successful tag the non hunters may find this to expensive. This would leave better odds for those really planning to use the tags they are trying for. I think having to purchase your hunting license before being able to apply may help as well.




But antis applying for LEH is a win-win. It's an "anti tax". It puts money in the HCTF (or wherever the LEH revenue goes) but doesn't affect anything at the end of the day. If more authorizations go unused due to antis winning them, the ministry will just issue more authorizations the next time to reach the desired AAH.

I suppose if the level of "anti" participation increased dramatically from one year to the next, it could reduce the harvest for that one year. But it's a short term thing, assuming the gov't is doing its job in recalculating the number of authorizations to give out.

[GoatGuy]

The thing that people kinda miss with this concept is wildlife management is generally about harvest. If the harvestable surplus is 10, typically we don't care if 5, 10 or 100 people harvest those 10 critters. We do that with regulations like 4 and 6 pts seasons as well. Balance success with participation.

Theoretically, that's how LEH is supposed to work. We know there are people who will not purchase a tag and go hunting and we know how many people will be unsuccessful so at the end of the day it shouldn't matter. There are some species and areas where this becomes problematic for various reasons (social, political, 'intellectual capacity'). While this is something we could implement it really shouldn't effect your odds, all it will do is remove some people from paying their $6+ HST.

[GoatGuy]

But antis applying for LEH is a win-win. It's an "anti tax". It puts money in the HCTF (or wherever the LEH revenue goes) but doesn't affect anything at the end of the day. If more authorizations go unused due to antis winning them, the ministry will just issue more authorizations the next time to reach the desired AAH.

I suppose if the level of "anti" participation increased dramatically from one year to the next, it could reduce the harvest for that one year. But it's a short term thing, assuming the gov't is doing its job in recalculating the number of authorizations to give out.

Only about 10% of people who get a draw don't buy a hunting license. It isn't significant.

[burger]

Only thing i would change would be that once in a calendar year you are drawn for a LEH then that is it not somebody getting 3 LEH for one year.Spread it around a little

[The Dude]

Don't see a problem with it, you paid your tickets, any 'surplus' can be let go fo the specific species and sex you drew for (Grizz for a grizz, doe for a doe). If you want it, go get it.
Keeps people motivated to buy cards since their draws have three kicks at the can then. Frustration level drops, wallet opens.

I also don't have a problem with computerized LEH draws and a points system, especially for the big prizes like Kammy Sheep, Island and Sunshine Rosies, etc.
I hate hearing this "I got three Rosies draws in 7 years" when I've been applying for 17 years and haven't got SF-all.

[hunter1947]

Good point your dad has and if your dad did not want to go for that draw up north he could decline and they put his draw back into the system for others just like bingo the balls keep going around till the balls all drop..

[boxhitch]

becomes problematic for various reasons (social, political, 'intellectual capacity'). Being kind of harsh on the regional bio aren't you ? ;)

Would be nice to think leh numbers would flex enough to achieve aah, but the caution signs are always in the way. never wanting to over achieve, as though it would be the end of the world.

[RENO]

[QUOTE=RENO;1171805]

I always apply for low odds moose, so your idea wouldn't affect me much as I do a different area almost every year. The problem is that many hunters would still be putting in for high odds hunts and complaining while the low odds crowd would be drawing tags in different areas almost every year, not much would change. My nephew put in at 13:1 and thought those were pretty good odds, hopefully he will listen closer next year.

I agree with you 100 % , I am only discussing and am not bitter at all, LEH ! I hunt regardless , my freezer has game every year. The system is also probably fine as far as the organizers of it are concerned,but it could be better, I put in every year for areas, I would like to hunt, not always near home as I like to see a bit of our beautiful province as well, some high, some low, sometimes I get lucky, sometimes not. No matter there is always the next year.
One thing is I am limited , by some health issues so I won't be climbing for any rams , those days are gone, so I don't apply for hunts like that, what is the point! I would not be able to do it, kind of a waste. The part that
probably pisses me off the most! and I am still not bitter and hopeful, is this Island Elk draw, I have been trying to get for almost 30 years. High odds, some I have heard, have drawn it more than once? and some out of province ???

[300wsm]

All this talk about redistributing "unused" authorizations isn't going to improve anything. The number of authorizations issued already takes into account the fact that some will not be used.

It's all about the annual harvest. Anything you do to make it more likely that people actually hunt their authorizations, or are more likely to be awarded an authorization, will only end up reducing the overall number of authorizations issued until you get back to the same harvest at the end of the day.

i figured that this was in the equation...
As I said before I like the system but I would support a few changes here and there. In my opinion using this method of calculating authorizations available could not give as accurate of predicted kills in an area. Adding a variable like "expected unhunted authorizations" seems unreliable if not impossible to keep accurate.
simple is better and transparency is better too.... JMHO

300wsm

[guest]

Many Draws should be a one in a lifetime or at least a tracking system to allows others a chance before you get a second. I have been very lucky and fortunate that I have been drawn on reduced odds from time to time, that said I do not think the system should allow me a second chance when others have entered same amount and not been drawn. It took me 16 years before I drew a Bison while others have had 3 and 4 draws, same draw, that said I have had at least 3 goat tags and or moose tags over a 10 years while others NONE ! Yes, it is a lottery but SUCKS !

Rosie's, Sheep, Bison, Goat, Griz should be considered possibly one every 5 or 10 years, perhaps some one in a lifetime.

Just my 2 cents .......... but smilen again this year cause if my health lets me ....... another Billy will be on the ground.

CT

[happyhunter]

Curly top, you must be kidding about goat being once in a life time. There are goat hunts that are under-subscribed. If a guy wants to hunt goats real badly he could put in for one of these spots and probably get drawn year after year because few people put in for these under-subscribed hunts.

[Flingin' Sticks]

I like the idea of having to pay for tags up front and be re-paid if not drawn. I do think it would make people think a little bit harder about where they put in for. I know for me I'd be looking at more local draws unless I know I can have time/finances/etc that allow me to travel.

It seems we have this rant every year with those who didn't get drawn. Instead of complaining that the system isn't fair because "I" didn't get my draws, get out there and plan GOS. No reason that you can't hunt becasue you don't have a draw.

[specbelly]

I know most on here hate the Alberta system, lived there for a number of years and IMHO it's awesome. More to this thread, in Alberta, they post any LEH left over after the draw, and 1st come 1st served can get these draws until all gone. Plus the left overs do not effect your priority for next year. All you need to do is phone in and be quick. Can't get any fairer then that as far as I'm concerned.

[Ron.C]

Curly top, you must be kidding about goat being once in a life time. There are goat hunts that are under-subscribed. If a guy wants to hunt goats real badly he could put in for one of these spots and probably get drawn year after year because few people put in for these under-subscribed hunts.

100% correct.

I've put in for goat 3 times. Got drawn 3 times. Not because I am lucky but because the odds were lees then 1.0:1. Haven't shot a goat yet, but I'm feelin lucky this year ;)

There are plenty of easy odds LEH's to be had for various species. But if you want to be a little more picky and only try for the ones with higher odds because it is easier access, close to home, hunted the area before........then you may never get picked.

[GoatGuy]

Being kind of harsh on the regional bio aren't you ? ;)

Would be nice to think leh numbers would flex enough to achieve aah, but the caution signs are always in the way. never wanting to over achieve, as though it would be the end of the world.

You would think when the outfitter gets a quota that is 50% more than the entire sustainable harvest there would be room for more than 1 LEH............

[Moose Guide]

If Rockies are 6 pt. gos and the herd can never be harmed, why are Rosies leh? I think that if a 6 pt. gos would be sustainable on the island it should be implemented immediately!!!

[boxhitch]

why are Rosies lehToo many people in the bush can ruin the quality of someone elses hunt.

[GoatGuy]

PC answer= socio-political.

Some FN groups believe there are too many resident hunters in some areas, that's why there aren't enough LEH to achieve AAH and why there is no appetite for shared hunts there.

[boxhitch]

You would think when the outfitter gets a quota that is 50% more than the entire sustainable harvest there would be room for more than 1 LEH............

Even for just one animal, a single leh isn't enough for a DIY resident hunt. And if there were 2 for every one deemed surplus, with the horn or antler restrictions, it wouldn't matter if resis did overachieve in one year, adjust and carry on.

If resident hunters spent half as much effort bitching about the lack of resident priority as they did about not winning the lottery and how that phlux them over, they might have a chance of changing the odds on several hunts. That is a battle worth fighting, not whining about feeling slighted by years of high odds.

But you know that.......

[guest]

Some need to take a chill pill, as Quoted ...........1 every 5 or 10 years, or lifetime. Others should get a 1st chance before I get a second ....... as said not to complain, on my good fortune, but the way I respect and regard the winning of a chance to hunt a GOAT some think is a right. Sure if you enter draws that are unsubscribed then so be it, you win ... good on ya, but why should I have 2nd 3rd and 4th chances when others have had none ...... the system is screwed IMHO. But who is going to change it .... those that are not happy, so if your pissed do something about it.

Can't wait to drop another Billy, or I might again just take pic's because I value my life more then loosing the Goat.

CT

[bigben]

I understand the bitterness but personaly this sytem has worked for me in the 8 years I have hunted in BC between my wife and I we have recieved the following including this year were we got 5 draws

Moose 8 draws
goat 5 draws
wt doe 3 draws
md doe 1 draw
VI Elk 1 draw
cow elk 1 draw

Still have not got my ashnola sheep draw after 7 years though so I to am bitter:mad:

So you got 8 moose draws at what odds so that 50 per cent enhancement does not work here where I live 23 years without a draw but a friend and his wife get three tags in a row Can you tell me whats up with that obviously the system is corrupted for sure

[dana]

If you would have read the thread you would see the answer. He has 8 moose draws because he put in for low odds hunts. If you have gone 23 years without a draw then you obviously are putting in for high odds hunts. If you have a unit that consistantly produces odds 3:1, 2:1 or 1:1 and you put in for it consistantly, you will draw on a regular basis. Doesn't matter if you're on decreased odds because you had the tag before. Good chance that all those putting in for that tag are in the same boat. It is not something that is corrupt. It is instead a fact that the hunters that draw all the time are putting in for tags no one else wants, including you! If you really wanted a tag then you would start putting in for those low odds hunts. Instead it is easier to come on the internet and bitch about how you never get drawn and make outlandish statements about how the system in corrupt. Every year we see the same BS. And every year people say we should go to a system like Alberta's. Do you people realize that is like comparing apples and oranges? The bulk of Alberta's system is for deer tags. Yup a priority system so you can go deer hunting every 3 years. Well guess what? In BC you can go deer hunting every year and are allowed 3 deer every year all GOS. Not in Alberta. Look at there system and see the species you get priority on, then look at BC and you will see the bulk of our species are GOS with zero waiting. Who has the better system?????

[Doublelung]

[QUOTE=dana;1172343]If you would have read the thread you would see the answer. He has 8 moose draws because he put in for low odds hunts. If you have gone 23 years without a draw then you obviously are putting in for high odds hunts. If you have a unit that consistantly produces odds 3:1, 2:1 or 1:1 and you put in for it consistantly, you will draw on a regular basis. Doesn't matter if you're on decreased odds because you had the tag before. Good chance that all those putting in for that tag are in the same boat. It is not something that is corrupt. It is instead a fact that the hunters that draw all the time are putting in for tags no one else wants, including you! If you really wanted a tag then you would start putting in for those low odds hunts. Instead it is easier to come on the internet and bitch about how you never get drawn and make outlandish statements about how the system in corrupt. Every year we see the same BS. And every year people say we should go to a system like Alberta's. Do you people realize that is like comparing apples and oranges? The bulk of Alberta's system is for deer tags. Yup a priority system so you can go deer hunting every 3 years. Well guess what? In BC you can go deer hunting every year and are allowed 3 deer every year all GOS. Not in Alberta. Look at there system and see the species you get priority on, then look at BC and you will see the bulk of our species are GOS with zero waiting. Who has the better system?????[/QUOTE

Those deer draws you talk about are for specific zones where animal over harvest could result in problems. Last year I could have bought 6 deer tags with out winning one draw!!! Is the system that flawed? You have the ability in Alberta to hunt most species with over the counter tags or under scribed tags. The draw system allows everyone a chance to hunt zones that they want. Yes some take a long time to get and others you get the tag for every year. I don't see how you can beat on Alberta's system till you have tried it.

[GoatGuy]

So you got 8 moose draws at what odds so that 50 per cent enhancement does not work here where I live 23 years without a draw but a friend and his wife get three tags in a row Can you tell me whats up with that obviously the system is corrupted for sure
The banjos are playing in crazybrook tonight....

[dana]

Those deer draws you talk about are for specific zones where animal over harvest could result in problems. Last year I could have bought 6 deer tags with out winning one draw!!! Is the system that flawed? You have the ability in Alberta to hunt most species with over the counter tags or under scribed tags. The draw system allows everyone a chance to hunt zones that they want. Yes some take a long time to get and others you get the tag for every year. I don't see how you can beat on Alberta's system till you have tried it.

How many muleys can you hunt in Alberta without a draw???? Here we can shoot 3 muleys a year with no draw required. And we can hunt zones we want to, without a wait. Imagine that! How's the goat hunt done in Alberta? Here we can hunt goats on GOS. In many of the units that are draw, they run 3:1, 2:1 or 1:1 or less. What kind of draw odds do goats in Alberta have? Without LEH we can hunt Canada moose, mountain goat, stone sheep, Rocky Mt bighorn, California bighorn, mountain caribou, Rocky Mt Elk, mule deer, columbian black-tail deer, sitka blacktail deer, whitetail deer, black bear, wolf, wolverine, cougar, bobcat and lynx. The only species that require LEH are Dall's sheep, Rosevelt Elk, Grizzly bear and Bison. So again I say, who has the better system, Alberta or BC???

[scoutlt1]

I wasn't going to chime in on this, because I do believe that our system isn't "corrupt" or flawed necessarily.
I would like there to be some tweaking however.
A couple of examples...my friend has property in 5-1, ever since that region went to LEH for moose (6 yrs or so I think), he has put in for a draw with the best odds (dates)...usually around 6 or 7:1. He has never gotten that draw, while his neighbour in that area just called him last week to let him know he got his 5th draw in a row.
I put in for at least 5 draws per year. Anterless deer and moose I try for something closer to home with odds usually in the in 8:1 or better range. I consistantly put in for a grizzly and goat draw that is less than 2:1.
The one draw that I received in 12 years is anterless mule deer, which (and looked this up yesterday), was the draw that had the "worst" odds I've ever put in for.
PLEASE don't take this as bitching or whining...there is so much game available in GOS that I get tons of succesful hunting in every year.
Just seems to me there might be a bit of a "better" way to do things maybe....

[fireguy]

Understanding the draw and using it to your advantage is how you get draws every year. I have got the nil tag a couple times and only got one draw this year but that is what I was expecting to get with what I put in for. As a group we were able to draw 5 moose tags this year in the area we wanted to because we know how the draw works and what to do to get drawn. I could also have put in for areas with lower odds and drawn 5 tags very easily, then if I posted that I drew 5 tags the same people would be on here complaining that the draw was rigged and how is it that I get 5 tags and they get nil..

[dana]

6:1, 7:1 and 8:1 draw odds are horrible. If you are consistantly putting in for hunts with those kind of odds, if you don't have luck, you may never draw. Just like the 649, some people are lucky and win more than once. Some people are just plain ass lucky. Very few people win big in Vegas. And some people have very poor luck. A ton of people go to Vegas and loose everything. That is the nature of the beast. That is Chance. If you are one of those people that doesn't seem to win much at anything like I am, then if you want to hunt LEH you better start putting in for low odds hunts. It is that simple. But.....having a tag on low odds hunts isn't all it's cracked up to be. On the vast majority of Low odds hunts you need to put in some serious time and effort to see success and cut that tag. Many hunters in this province don't have the time nor the gumption to get r done in these units. In June when they draw, they are on cloud 9. When the hunt comes and they spend all their vacation time and gas money and see SFA they then feel like they've been kicked squarely in the nuts. Pick your poison. What is it you want?

[fireguy]

Anyont that put in for these codes would have probably drawn 7 tags, 6 for sure, like dana said the odds are low and the hunts might be hard but the animals are there.

1004, 2141, 4018 (2nd choice 4318 ), 5067 (second choice 5070), 6027, 7028, 3002 (second choice 3027)

Getting draws is easy, getting animals in those areas can be the difficult part.

[scoutlt1]

I have all kinds of luck with everything....trouble is it's only bad luck :-) Even my kids laugh at me when I tell them to check my cup to see what's under the rim.."what's the point dad?" lol
My buddy who tries for moose in 5-1 will grumble and bitch around the fire again this year that he didn't get anything and "how the hell can ___ get it 5 years in a row???" Of course I am happy to tell him it's a conspiracy and he has a friend that works for the government and always makes sure his buddy gets his draw... :-)
I've hunted bear, never taken a Grizz, but could have if I had a tag. I've also hunted goat in GOS and come very close a coule of times. I wouldn't go for a draw on something that I don't normally hunt for, or in an area I've never been. That's just me though, and if some people want to do that, that's fine with me. Is a bit of a shame for me though, when they get a draw and don't take advantage of it just because it looks like more effort than it's "worth". I believe there should be some research done before applying, but again, that's just me.

[GoatGuy]

Anyont that put in for these codes would have probably drawn 7 tags, 6 for sure, like dana said the odds are low and the hunts might be hard but the animals are there.

1004, 2141, 4018 (2nd choice 4318 ), 5067 (second choice 5070), 6027, 7028, 3002 (second choice 3027)

Getting draws is easy, getting animals in those areas can be the difficult part.

You're moving dangerously close to applying 'common sense' to LEH; be careful, using logic isn't an acceptable form of argument on this topic.

[dana]

I have all kinds of luck with everything....trouble is it's only bad luck :-) Even my kids laugh at me when I tell them to check my cup to see what's under the rim.."what's the point dad?" lol


LOL! This year my luck changed and I actually won a donut. Was expecting the Kamloops Sheep Draw would follow but it didn't. I guess I used up all my new found luck on that donut.

[scoutlt1]

LOL! This year my luck changed and I actually won a donut. Was expecting the Kamloops Sheep Draw would follow but it didn't. I guess I used up all my new found luck on that donut.

I may frame the cup if I ever win :-) I won $73 on the 6/49 once on my way to my first hunting trip of the season a few years ago. I too though it was a sign of things to come. It was one of the only years I ever got skunked! lol

Here's what I hope the LEH does.
1."Contibute" to better wildlife management.
2. Allow opportunity for "new" hunters a chance at a kill (Mulie doe for example), so they have a positive experience and they become more involved in our great "community".
3. Allow for a "once in a lifetime" chance at an animal (and I don't mean if you get a draw once you can never apply again, just an expression).

If the LEH does any or all of these things, I'm fine with it.

[fireguy]

You're moving dangerously close to applying 'common sense' to LEH; be careful, using logic isn't an acceptable form of argument on this topic.

I know and that only took me a couple min to figure out how to get drawn tags. The thing is I actually have put in and drawn tags in areas that I have never been to and only looked at on a map. I have got drawn and used it as an excuse to go see the province and actually had a great time and had success on those hunts as well, even put in for the same hunt again. Finding out where you just got drawn can be also finding out when and where you are going on a vacation, there is lots of places that I have seen and visited in our province just because I put in for a draw in that area.

[Moose Guide]

I wasn't going to chime in on this, because I do believe that our system isn't "corrupt" or flawed necessarily.
I would like there to be some tweaking however.
A couple of examples...my friend has property in 5-1, ever since that region went to LEH for moose (6 yrs or so I think), he has put in for a draw with the best odds (dates)...usually around 6 or 7:1. He has never gotten that draw, while his neighbour in that area just called him last week to let him know he got his 5th draw in a row.
I put in for at least 5 draws per year. Anterless deer and moose I try for something closer to home with odds usually in the in 8:1 or better range. I consistantly put in for a grizzly and goat draw that is less than 2:1.
The one draw that I received in 12 years is anterless mule deer, which (and looked this up yesterday), was the draw that had the "worst" odds I've ever put in for.
PLEASE don't take this as bitching or whining...there is so much game available in GOS that I get tons of succesful hunting in every year.
Just seems to me there might be a bit of a "better" way to do things maybe....

Your friend in 5:1 lives within 4 hours of some of the finest moose hunting in B.C., with odds between 1:1 and 3:1 in my favorite area(four seasons to choose from, late season best odds, rut worst) and it has good access!!! One hunt in reg. 5 has odds of 0.0:1, it may as well be GOS for whoever applies!!! I count 10 areas with odds of 0.9:1 or less and 136 tags up for grabs in reg. 5, either your friend doesn't want to hunt moose or he only wants to hunt them out his back door! The opportunities are there!

[Geo.338]

I think the system works ok . The only thing I do not agree with is enhanced odds . No other lottery penalizes a winner . This in itself is unfair . I do know a hunter who was drawn for roosevelt elk two years in a row though . I have had a dozen moose draws ,at least . In about 17 years . Grizzly draws any time I apply . I never drew a moose this year because the gutted the authorizations by over half and then split the season . Oh well I will go for a gos moose and I will hunt goats in the area of my grizzly draw . Then there is that roosevelt tag I have for november . Gotta love the LEH .

I think that paying for the tag at the time of application is a good idea and I would like to see some kind of avenue for a hunter that knows they cannot go on a particular hunt to be able to formally surrender their authorization to give an opportunity to another instead of WASTING it and not have their odds ENHANCED . No to the Alberta or US models . Their are not enough sheep or Rosies for that system .

[scoutlt1]

Your friend in 5:1 lives within 4 hours of some of the finest moose hunting in B.C., with odds between 1:1 and 3:1 in my favorite area(four seasons to choose from, late season best odds, rut worst) and it has good access!!! One hunt in reg. 5 has odds of 0.0:1, it may as well be GOS for whoever applies!!! I count 10 areas with odds of 0.9:1 or less and 136 tags up for grabs in reg. 5, either your friend doesn't want to hunt moose or he only wants to hunt them out his back door! The opportunities are there!

Like I said, it's not the end of the world....not for me anyways. He doesn't live there, but has rec property up there where he (and I) used to hunt Moose during GOS. Ever since the LEH he hasn't pulled a draw, while his "neighbor" (up there) has applied for the exact same draw and got it now 5 years in a row.
I understand it's a lottery...some people win "all the time"...and if know if his neighbor wasn't allowed to apply every year after one where he was succesful, mathematically my buddy's odds probably would not be very much better...etc etc etc...
He is getting older and doesn't get around too well without the help of 4 wheels, so he would never put in for an animal or location where hiking up the side of a mtn is part of the program....so yes in a way he would want to "hunt them out his back door".
He will just have to deal with it as I tell him, and again, for me,,,,I never "expect" to get a draw.I would have better luck finding the woman of my dreams on a dating site and living happily ever after...
I'll continue to put in for draws, but be very happy with the GOS.

[Doublelung]

How many muleys can you hunt in Alberta without a draw???? Here we can shoot 3 muleys a year with no draw required. And we can hunt zones we want to, without a wait. Imagine that! How's the goat hunt done in Alberta? Here we can hunt goats on GOS. In many of the units that are draw, they run 3:1, 2:1 or 1:1 or less. What kind of draw odds do goats in Alberta have? Without LEH we can hunt Canada moose, mountain goat, stone sheep, Rocky Mt bighorn, California bighorn, mountain caribou, Rocky Mt Elk, mule deer, columbian black-tail deer, sitka blacktail deer, whitetail deer, black bear, wolf, wolverine, cougar, bobcat and lynx. The only species that require LEH are Dall's sheep, Rosevelt Elk, Grizzly bear and Bison. So again I say, who has the better system, Alberta or BC???

Well there is 47 zones in which you can hunt mule deer with an over the counter tag. That tag is good for a buck, now if you go to certian zones your able to harvest 2 mule deer does. 2+1=3. Now for a geography lesson, Alberta`s land mass is over 90% prairie this is not prime goat habitat. There is a few places in the very west of the province where theres mountains. The few goats that do live on these mountains are hunted under a draw system with no priority given. This means that everyone has equal chance to them. If you have ever won the draw you are not allowed to apply for it. So if you were to move into the alberta system and you odds were 2:1 that would mean ever second year you were getting your draw for that zone. now if your odds were 1:1 you get the draw each year. so if you werent lucky at 2:1 and you still want to hunt you can wait to the underscribed draws become available then go online or call in a purchase such draws. I was not talking about changing the general open seasons i was commenting on Leh. So if we where to keep the general lottery for the most sought after draws and allow the other to go to a priority system every one would have a chance to enjoy in these hunts. Wouldnt it be nice if everyone got a draw sometime in there life.

[dana]

Again, comparing apples and oranges. When you compare Alberta's system to BC's you need to be comparing the same species. Comparing mountain goats, the system is the same. It is a lottery. Yet BC has WAY WAY more opportunity including GOS and low odds goat draws. Comparing species, much of Alberta is on Priority for mule deer. In BC it is GOS in every unit. That hundreds not just 47. So by saying the priority system is better, you really need to look at what you are comparing. Cause the hunting in Alberta sucks compared to the hunting in BC. BC by far has the most opportunity for the most species than any other jurisdiction in North America.