Thoughts on How To Shoot Big Game when it is running at different speed and angles?

[Jelvis]

---deleted thread is dead

[Blair]

I wouldn't have the confidence to make a killing shot under those conditions. I would watch where it went in the hope of doing a stalk for a safer shot.

[killman]

Let them rip!!! As long as there is lead in the air there is hope! ;)

[The Dude]

Popcorn time!

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/Forum%20Ammo/popcorn.gif

[Matty_ola]

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad78/matty_ola/photo-88.jpg (http://http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad78/matty_ola/photo-88.jpg)

[Jelvis]

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[The Dawg]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRK4ZqIsliJKgS64FOdQj7z6Ba2sVvf1 1uJ7co32xw47v9CdJf4qsrrlCpU

[warnniklz]

Mule deer max speed = 56.33 km/h = 51.33feet/sec

Hornady Superformance 30_06 165grn GMX = 2940fps @ muzzle = 2531fps @ 200yards

600 feet = 200 yards

Bullet decellerates 409fps over 600 feet = a decceleration rate of ~1.47fps/foot

Flight time at 200 yards is ~0.24 seconds

average reaction time to pull a trigger is ~317 milliseconds

So by the time you touch the trigger and the flight time of the bullet to 200 yards, it's under a quarter of a second.

51.33fps divided by 4(quarters) = 12.83 feet the deer has moved from A to B

So you'd lead by 12.83 feet (about two deer lengths)

Average length of a mule deer is ~80inches = 6.67 feet



Something seems wrong to me, but the only physics I know are from watching The Big Bang Theory

[The Dawg]

Mule deer max speed = 56.33 km/h = 51.33feet/sec

Hornady Superformance 30_06 165grn GMX = 2940fps @ muzzle = 2531fps @ 200yards

600 feet = 200 yards

Bullet decellerates 409fps over 600 feet = a decceleration rate of ~1.47fps/foot

Flight time at 200 yards is ~0.24 seconds

average reaction time to pull a trigger is ~317 milliseconds

So by the time you touch the trigger and the flight time of the bullet to 200 yards, it's under a quarter of a second.

51.33fps divided by 4(quarters) = 12.83 feet the deer has moved from A to B

So you'd lead by 12.83 feet (about two deer lengths)

Average length of a mule deer is ~80inches = 6.67 feet



Something seems wrong to me, but the only physics I know are from watching The Big Bang Theory


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20535105.jpg

[RENO]

X2 Popcorn time!

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...mo/popcorn.gif (http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/Forum%20Ammo/popcorn.gif)

When the buck, stops and looks back as Mulies do, it's Popping Time

[Jelvis]

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[Drillbit]

Swing crosshairs through the target, getting the direction of travel, squeeze when the crosshairs have swung through and is leading. Lead distance depends on target speed, distance, and direction of travel.

The key is to never aim high, everyone shoots over their targets because they zero their gun at 300 and still aim high.

A good reticle for this is the "Leupold Dot"

Practice on ice in the river, clay pigeons (rabbit clays), coyotes, gophers.....


Practice is the main thing. If you only put a few rounds a year through your gun off the bench, and then one-shot-one-kill your animal every year, you probably should stick with what you're doing and don't take running shots.
If you put lots of rounds a year (more than 400) through your '06 and know how it works at different distances, practice up and be confident.

[Drillbit]

Broadside whitetail full speed 250-300yard is about a 4' lead.
^100-200 is just in front of his nose.


The hard part is appraising the rack at full speed.

[Jelvis]

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[Moose Guide]

Ibtl!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jelvis]

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[warnniklz]

What lead on a running deer at 100 yards going to the left at a spunky gait?
A buck running, not bouncing, you aim the cross hairs four inches back of the neck line at the front of the brisket in the direction it's moving.
Well enough ahead to prevent having a gut shot.
Keep your rifle swinging, do not stop swinging til after you pull the trigger. Aim down far enough to hit the center of mass of the front shoulder. POW!
Buck will stumble a bit and shake and his ass end drops, and he falls ahead flat trying to crawl, fatally wounded.
You hit the spine and it shattered some bone, the buck can't use his back two legs.
Shooting at a nice buck shoot so you hit the front end in the middle of the largest mass. KaPOW!

How do you figure... show your work. You learn that in grade 8

[Jelvis]

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[IronNoggin]

... Practice is the main thing...

BINGO! :mrgreen:

There are a considerable number of fine riflemen (and the odd Lady) that can and do make consistent running shots on game at the speeds & distances Jello started this thread with. Most I personally know grew up on the prairies, where longer distances and running game are a common occurrence. The common denominator amongst every single one of these marksmen I've ever known is: Extreme familiarity with their rifle and SERIOUS amounts of practice.

My brother and I grew up in both the flatlands and the hills. Pa's answer to teaching us how to make running/bounding shots was simple in design, difficult to master, and well prepared us for that type of action in the field. He would take a handful of old tires, insert a circular piece of cardboard in the center of them, and roll them down hills of various inclines to present moving targets. We Ladz were stationed at ranges that varied from 20 through 300 yards broadside to the tire's direction of travel. Couldn't shoot until he gave the word. Those that hit their intended target squarely were afforded the privilege of watching those that didn't lug those heavy damn tires back up the hill for another round. You learned to be both Quick and Accurate, or developed a damn strong back! LOL! That method worked and worked well. A great many running mulies, whitetails and antelope fell to our rifles over the years, and I attribute that to the training and practice that so much time was spent on beforehand.

It IS possible. It CAN be done with Confidence. And it CAN be done Consistently.
As Drillbit noted, all it takes is Practice. And a LOT of it!! :twisted:

Cheers,
Nog

[steel_ram]

Blaze away, test your luck, there's lots of game out there. Coyotes gotta eat too.

[Big Lew]

BINGO! :mrgreen:

There are a considerable number of fine riflemen (and the odd Lady) that can and do make consistent running shots on game at the speeds & distances Jello started this thread with. Most I personally know grew up on the prairies, where longer distances and running game are a common occurrence. The common denominator amongst every single one of these marksmen I've ever known is: Extreme familiarity with their rifle and SERIOUS amounts of practice.

My brother and I grew up in both the flatlands and the hills. Pa's answer to teaching us how to make running/bounding shots was simple in design, difficult to master, and well prepared us for that type of action in the field. He would take a handful of old tires, insert a circular piece of cardboard in the center of them, and roll them down hills of various inclines to present moving targets. We Ladz were stationed at ranges that varied from 20 through 300 yards broadside to the tire's direction of travel. Couldn't shoot until he gave the word. Those that hit their intended target squarely were afforded the privilege of watching those that didn't lug those heavy damn tires back up the hill for another round. You learned to be both Quick and Accurate, or developed a damn strong back! LOL! That method worked and worked well. A great many running mulies, whitetails and antelope fell to our rifles over the years, and I attribute that to the training and practice that so much time was spent on beforehand.

It IS possible. It CAN be done with Confidence. And it CAN be done Consistently.
As Drillbit noted, all it takes is Practice. And a LOT of it!! :twisted:

Cheers,
Nog

Like your answer...my brothers and I used to do just that with 22's and long bows when we were teenagers.... great fun!

[frenchbar]

where the hell is chevy when you need him ...

[dino]

hey where is this big buck your talking about?



I dont spend a bunch of cash to watch a deer run, Ive come to shoot! The ethics police can lick my legal rights.

[835]

I remember one hunt years ago when i was 14. I pulled a rosie draw.
I had a 99 in .284 Win. Me and dad walking into the farm we had permission on. Found a heard of elk, 2 5x5's in the group. I picked one, we were around 150 yds. I shot and hit the elk, but being 14 i got a lil excited and didnt place good. The excitement got me and the remaining 4 rounds went out like i was John Wayne without the accuracy of the cinema. Dad saw shit flyin in a hurry, thought fast brought up the .308 Norma mag put the X on the tip of the nose of this full running at 150-200yds elk and squeezed. Bullet hit the head and the elk did an endo.

So 150 yds - 200 yds 5x5 Rosie full out run you need to lead it 'bout the length of the nose.

[Glenny]

I wouldn't shoot at game running full bore. Just not my thing.

[835]

Not mine either, not even trotting. But when there is lead in the animal already you have to do what you have to do.
so you do things like Iron Nog and practice.

[Jelvis]

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[Taurusguy]

I knocked my first moose down at about 300 yards .. off hand ... it was running full bore AWAY from the tree line and into the open (made a great oppertunity to really think about my shot!). IT was running with 2 cows and a smaller bull. I had it in my sights and followed it with my scope view .. i figured I would miss if i shot at it straight on so i moved my scope sight in front of it and waited for it to show up in my scope. As soon as it appeared in my scope i had it aimed at the top of its back above the shoulders (ahead of it, just eyed it up as it approached the cross hairs) and i blasted it right through the lungs with my 30/06 180grain. (didnt know til that though until we skinned it out and gutted it). IT didnt stop though ... but slowed down ALOT and started to just walk as the others pulled away and kept running (thats how i knew i hit it) and then i fired a second shot (which prolly missed cuz i was now really excited).. and my old man backed me up with his 300win mag and knocked it over (he actually blew its hip out). Got a whopping 700lbs of meat out of that one .. :) We had a tag for the 2nd bull .. but i didnt go after it .. we had one down and alot of work ahead of us.

http://i39.tinypic.com/9gammh.jpg
I shot it from darn near the top tree line in this pic in between the 2nd and 1st wood pile (left to right) was where i was standing.

[Jelvis]

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[sawmill]

I only take running shots.Many times I have had a nice buck standing broadside at 3 to 5 hundred yards so I shoot behind them to make it sporting(a ranging shot) then I wait untill they are at least 600+out.At that range with my 30.06 and 165 gr. I will aim 8 feet high and lead roughly 80`ish feet.For a going away (Texas heart shot)It`s vital to remember they are running AWAY!So aim at least 2 feet higher.
Not saying I get `em all but I hit enough to make it fun.I`ve even recovered 2 or 3.
Hope this helps.

[4 point]

Running shots very low percentage success for many shooters. Just whistle maybe a couple times and many will stop and look back, then bang flop. Otherwise keep on hunting.

[Axle]

My usual senario is to watch them run out of sight, all the while hoping it stops to look back. I have taken some nice animals while they were travelling though. 5x5 whitetail running left to right in front of me, was travelling tree line and had no idea I was there. 50 yards I squeezed the trigger as his head came into view directly in front of me. Hit him right in the eye. Obviously not much lead required there. I have taken a lot of whitetails 5x5, 6x7 and too many to count smaller ones while travelling, but not flat out running. Was always taught to aim center of mass regardless of the shot. Seems to work for me.

Axle

[Jelvis]

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Husky7mm]

Shoot a super fast rifle , you won't have to lead your target by much. Shoot it year round, deer, bears, coyotes, gophers, targets w.h.y .Make sure it does not have mega recoil so you can see the hit or get back on the target quick. If your not shy to toss lead, don't give up early on recovering your quary, there's a big chance you hit that animal. If you worried, or not fluid, jerky, flinchy, uncomfortable then stick to shooting only in perfect situations.

[Husky7mm]

And 1 more important thing. Mount you scope the perfect distance from your eye, so when your rifle is up and on your shoulder you don't have to adjust your view or move your head whatsoever, it's up and your ready to shoot! If your scope does no allow this then buy a different one, and if you are scoping yourself in the level shooting positions then also buy a different scope.

[Whistler]

Practice on coyotes, get them running and blaze away. After a couple hundred mongrels you'll have the confidence to knock down game when they are moving. On a stotting mule deer hold your trigger until they are on the upward part of their stott!!

[hunter1993ap]

ive shot a few deer running, all under 100 yards and i always hit where i was aiming. over 100 i have no experience with. my grandpa used to tell me how they would get a tire,put a peice of cardboard in the middle, roll it downa hill and start blasting! a good way to practice but the location could be hard to find. it would be hard to be consistant on fast running game over 100.

[Jelvis]

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[Drillbit]

Gun has to fit the shooter.

Close you eyes, shoulder you gun, open your eyes (shoot with both eyes open too).

LOP has to be right, cheek weld has to be right.
If the scope fit isn't perfect, fix it. Mount height and eye relief are important. Low power on a scope is good too, I always shoot on 5x. Too much zoom is too small of a picture.

[Jelvis]

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[Axle]

True , large whitetails very rarely stop moving. I have taken many respectable bucks and I can only think of one on opening weekend that was standing still. All these bucks where not aware of me though and that allowed the time to make kill shots on them. I have seen countless other nice bucks run away after a bump but in thick brush it is nearly impossible to have enough time to get a running shot off.
I'll share my 6x7 story with you. Last day of November Rifle for whitetail. ( A long time ago...lol) One 5x5 down and dragged half way out. Looking for partner notice large buck with doe @ ridge top. Only have few inches of back to shoot at. Buck starts running down ridge, I shoot, run up top of hill approx. 100 yrds. Buck is right there 10 yards from me. Shot it from hip. Both bucks were nice. Partner was in disbelief...lol. All I can figure is the buck stopped to identify the noise from the bullet going through the trees past him.

Axle

[hunter1947]

Myself I would let any wild animal go I myself might wound the animal chances of a wound on any animal is hi in my books I learned this when I had wounded a few animals years ago under the same circumstances..

[steel_ram]

I dare say I'm probably a better shot than most, but the only circumstance I will take a shot at running game is if it's already wounded. The chance of something going wrong is to high, and the pain and suffering it would cause, outways my need for the feather in my cap.

[finngun]

steel ram...I dare say I'm probably a better shot than most, ....... don't we ALL think same way:mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Caveman]

Mule deer max speed = 56.33 km/h = 51.33feet/sec

Hornady Superformance 30_06 165grn GMX = 2940fps @ muzzle = 2531fps @ 200yards

600 feet = 200 yards

Bullet decellerates 409fps over 600 feet = a decceleration rate of ~1.47fps/foot

Flight time at 200 yards is ~0.24 seconds

average reaction time to pull a trigger is ~317 milliseconds

So by the time you touch the trigger and the flight time of the bullet to 200 yards, it's under a quarter of a second.

51.33fps divided by 4(quarters) = 12.83 feet the deer has moved from A to B

So you'd lead by 12.83 feet (about two deer lengths)

Average length of a mule deer is ~80inches = 6.67 feet



Something seems wrong to me, but the only physics I know are from watching The Big Bang Theory

I see a fault is your therory! You neglected to factor in the hieght and length of the mule deer bound. You formula may only be accurate on a Whitetail

[steel_ram]

steel ram...I dare say I'm probably a better shot than most, ....... don't we ALL think same way:mrgreen::mrgreen:

Sorry, I wasn't trying to toot my own horn. I practise a lot. I shoot around other people who are shooting.:icon_frow I do fairly well in shooting competitions. I do know that in shooting, especially off hand shots, can be blown even by the best, and it's not worth it (to me) the risk of wounding game.

[silvertipp]

I find the semi auto,s are most sutable for this type of hunting,make sure you bring two or three clips works just fine,find apath way ,let the animal run into your field of veiw and YEEHAA leter rip

[Gun Dog]

Mule deer max speed = 56.33 km/h = 51.33feet/sec

Hornady Superformance 30_06 165grn GMX = 2940fps @ muzzle = 2531fps @ 200yards

600 feet = 200 yards

Bullet decellerates 409fps over 600 feet = a decceleration rate of ~1.47fps/foot

Flight time at 200 yards is ~0.24 seconds

average reaction time to pull a trigger is ~317 milliseconds

So by the time you touch the trigger and the flight time of the bullet to 200 yards, it's under a quarter of a second.

51.33fps divided by 4(quarters) = 12.83 feet the deer has moved from A to B

So you'd lead by 12.83 feet (about two deer lengths)

Average length of a mule deer is ~80inches = 6.67 feet



Something seems wrong to me, but the only physics I know are from watching The Big Bang Theory
Good try but the trigger reaction time doesn't matter. You're leading at a constant distance in front the deer.

Average bullet speed = (2940+2531)/2 = 2735 ft/s
bullet travel time at 200y = 600/2735 = 0.22s
deer travel distance = 51 ft/s * 0.22s = 11.2 ft

Still leading by quite a bit IF the deer is running at speed. Most likely the deer will be in a trot. It's also bobbing up and down.

[Jeff88]

Good try but the trigger reaction time doesn't matter. You're leading at a constant distance in front the deer.

Average bullet speed = (2940+2531)/2 = 2735 ft/s
bullet travel time at 200y = 600/2735 = 0.22s
deer travel distance = 51 ft/s * 0.22s = 11.2 ft

Still leading by quite a bit IF the deer is running at speed. Most likely the deer will be in a trot. It's also bobbing up and down.

im thinking theres something not right here ...whats the 11.2 ft...it cant be how far the deer travelled after pulling trigger

[Jeff88]

for a deer running at full speed at 200 yards away ,your not going to aim 11ft in front of him thats forsure....atleast i think thats what the above formula was stating ..

[Jeff88]

hold on a second ...i think i see the issue ...i didnt no deer travel at 51ft per second

dam thats one fast deer

i think your deer speed is out to lunch

[91Jason91]

Let them rip!!! As long as there is lead in the air there is hope! ;)

omfg hahahahaha

[91Jason91]

my 180grian bullet is moving 3400f/s
So dont need to lead at 200 thats for sure

[Jelvis]

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[ianwuzhere]

Would i be high jacking the thread if i wanted to ask how to shoot animals while i drive in my pickup out the window?? ;) ;)

-Bottom line -if you do not think you will make the shot- then dont make it...
-Until then- get out and practice-ironnoggins rollin tire idea sound pretty good..

[Jelvis]

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[Gun Dog]

im thinking theres something not right here ...whats the 11.2 ft...it cant be how far the deer travelled after pulling triggerYou can't argue with science. Looking around the Internet a deer can run at 35mph or 56km/h which is 15m/s or 51 ft/s. At least most people would wildly miss. No harm, no foul.

[The Dude]

My new rig for running shots on those pesky fast Whitetails:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa5MIDsnO3c&feature=related


Oh, sorry, Jelly....I wasn't aware you lived here.

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj614/ChildoftheGlassEye/The%20Great%20EMP%20and%20Fremont%20Troll%20Advent ure/DSC_0994.jpg

Rather unlike you to Troll like this.

[Jelvis]

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[Jelvis]

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[Big G Hunter]

Couple of years ago while moose hunting, my buddy had shot one of two bulls that had come thru a meadow at a full run. When I heard the shots I got up and started to run towards him. Saw a real nice bull on a full run from 257 yards away. I led him by the tip of his nose and hit him right in the neck, one shot down. I shoot a browning 30-06 with 150 federal bullets. Have had this gun for 12 years and not afraid to shoot it out to any distance to 450-500yds. biggest thing is confidence and knowing your gun.

[835]

Unlike The Dudes rig, Mine anyone can actually own....
My CZ858 ( AK- 47 Variant look alike for those unknowing ) Comes factory with 4x 35 round banana magazines. You can easily drill out the pin on one and get the full 35 rnds of 7.62x39. No before you jump down my thought the 7.62 x 39 is perfectly capable when shot in rapid succession at a target. The other nice thing about this assault type rifle is you can afford up to 25 misses and still get a lethal 10 rounds in the animal. As well if you shoot it from the hip it works as a great recoil management system, which is only ethical due to the large capacity magazine.



Yes the CZ 858 is non restricted,,,,,, no i dont own one

[Caveman]

In all honesty, I have taken four animals on a full run. A cow elk and three bull moose. Big targets and less than a 100 yds. Running broadside, all I did was pick an opening and as they came in view I squeezed. All dropped on the spot. In fact one of the moose piled up so violently,it was laying on it's head when I approached. A deer is a fair bit quicker and smaller and I don't know if I'd try, especially a mule deer, as it was bounding by. It's not something anyone practices. It's not something I would recommend, even though I've done it. This scenario is about as good as it gets for a running target. Any more distance, like out at two hundred yards, the odds are not in your favour. The chances of wounding and losing an animal start to increase to the point that make it not worth it. It all comes down as most things. It depends on your confidence level and how you know your gun, and a bit of luck never hurts.

Coincidentally, one of the bull moose was standing in a poplar stand and decided to run. He ran full speed for the road I was on, slightly quartering away from me when I squeezed on him and I stopped him in the middle of the road. Had to put him down with a second one as he stood there, but it made the recovery work a whole lot easier.

[Jelvis]

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[bigslim]

"When the meat's there, Get the lead in the air!" You miss every shot you don't take. Anybody that has hunted long enough has attempted a shot in this scenario, if not then alot of empty freezers. Lead animal by one body lenght and let er fly, We all have clips full of bullets so if you miss on the first shot rattle another in the pipe and repeat!! We all want that perfect shot but we don"t live in a perfect world. When the mount is on the wall nobody asks about the shot placement and if they do just lie about it. If it's alright to stretch the truth on HBC it must be OK!!


BIGSLIM

[Jelvis]

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