5-3 sheep season.. why is it closed?

[EvanG]

Noticed in the new regulations the sheep season in 5-3 was closed this year. I know the population has been in a rut, but hunter participation is quite low with very little success has anyone heard the reason for closure? poaching perhaps, or were there a few rams taken last year?

[GoatGuy]

Population continues to decline, and no recovery plan in place.

[guest]

Because they are so abundant of course .........

CT

[warnniklz]

sheep are closed... wolves are open

[Whonnock Boy]

Haha! I can't get away from these tonight. It is my understanding that the local band has been harvesting them, with no age or sex discretion. Was talked about on here 4 or 5 months ago.

[The Dude]

Isn't that Churn Ck?
Ceremonial uses. I guess we just had a helluva lot of ceremonies in the past few years.

[boxhitch]

Regional office seems numb to any issue, no management plans in place
WSSoBC is trying to help out with building plans

[REMINGTON JIM]

Regional office seems numb to any issue, no management plans in place

Really - What a SURPRISE ! :-?

[EvanG]

The area deff seems to have been forgotten about

[Aheny]

I can imagine the ceremonies, customer pays a band member, and they go out together and kill a sheep...

[GoatGuy]

Regional office seems numb to any issue, no management plans in place


Shocked, amazed and bewildered........................

Three things you can't teach: motivation, caring, intelligence........

[one-shot-wonder]

Maybe the regional manager in the area needs an ear full or a heart felt email perhaps!

That wouldn't be Rodger Stewart would it..........:-?

[Whonnock Boy]

Regional office seems numb to any issue, no management plans in place
WSSoBC is trying to help out with building plans


Shocked, amazed and bewildered........................

Three things you can't teach: motivation, caring, intelligence........


Maybe the regional manager in the area needs an ear full or a hear felt email perhaps!

That wouldn't be Rodger Stewart would it..........:-?

Being that it was just a full curl season, what can the regional manager do about the populations if a certain user group has thrown conservation to way side??? Sure, maybe his job skills are lacking, but essentially his hands are tied. Would any of you Care to elaborate?

[Goliath]

The sheep are down there for a variety of reasons, not simply "Indians".

IMO, the big one is the migration corridor between the summer & winter range is very long and it has literally become overgrown...possibly due to a generation of fire fighting activity. As you MAY know sheep rely heavily on their eyesight, but they don't have x ray eyes to see through bush. Predation therefore has become a serious problem for these animals.

The sheep population has been in steady decline there, to the point where it may be affecting the ability of the herds to learn the migration route from their "elders". As the population drops, if all the animals don't migrate together with the ones that know the route, the slow pokes left behind are screwed. Many years ago when there were a ton of sheep there, there was a constant stream of animals during migration. This meant few were left behind lost in the process.

Without human intervention, I seriously doubt the herds in the Churn are stable in the long term.

[Jelvis]

Parasites and mange is killing the sheep and spreading is what I'm hearing. It's happening in Keremeous now as well.
Remember these sheep are not native and have come from California so they have problems adapting to mule deer country here.
Jella Sheepo

[GoatGuy]

First thing you need is a recovery plan to identify knowledge gaps, then research, implement solutions, monitor.

This concept that the problem is due to unregulated harvest is a ways out there.

Habitat and predation are the places to look. First thing you need is a plan. And yes there is money available for this sort of thing.

[GoatGuy]

Parasites and mange is killing the sheep and spreading is what I'm hearing. It's happening in Keremeous now as well.
Remember these sheep are not native and have come from California so they have problems adapting to mule deer country here.
Jella Sheepo

Hopefully you didn't pay for that advice.

[Goliath]

First thing you need is a recovery plan to identify knowledge gaps, then research, implement solutions, monitor.

This concept that the problem is due to unregulated harvest is a ways out there.

Habitat and predation are the places to look. First thing you need is a plan. And yes there is money available for this sort of thing.


Well put. Thank you.

[Whonnock Boy]

Thanks for the insight.

[oscar makonka]

Remember these sheep are not native and have come from California so they have problems adapting to mule deer country here.
Jella Sheepo

Is that so...............

[Jelvis]

These Cali's in the areas they are found have been transplanted. If you are trying to say they are native?
Let's see your write up on this herd in MU 5-03 Mr Oscar?
Jelly Manz (Pride) Inside .. Contention .. transplanted or not? MU 5-03 Cali's history facts, just the facts mam

[blackbart]

Glad to hear that some folks actually care about the decline and are trying to do something about it.

Can't really remember ever hearing before that the Fraser River Cali Sheep were a transplant. Sure the Alexandria herd (west side of the Fraser River between Williams Lake and Quesnel) has not always been there. Other than that I kinda thought the rest of the buggers were in their native range. Would Jelvis care to provide some more detail?

Seems to me that the Kamloops IR herd may have originated from some transplants that came from not too far from 5-03, like the other side of the Chilcotin River???

If the folks trying to improve the habitat need some help give me a PM and I will donate some time.

[Jelvis]

These sheep get parasites and they spread through the sheep herd. Interbreeding because they have no others to breed with. Their only cousins till 9 PM.
Jel .. Ask yourself how did California Sheep get from Calfornia through Oregon and into BC?

[boxhitch]

Funny jel
Bighorns have been in BC since the ice ages, not sure who herded them across from Russia
Take a read jel
www.wildsheepsociety.net/node/33
First id'ed in California, found throughout the west as man explored.

[boxhitch]

They originally found their own way to Mt Paul from across the Thompson, plus a wandering ram from Chase, augmentation has helped since.


Seems to me that the Kamloops IR herd may have originated from some transplants that came from not too far from 5-03, like the other side of the Chilcotin River???
http://www.tkemlups.ca/lands-planning-resources/cultural-resource-management/wildlife/big-horn-sheep

[BCrams]

This is not a new development. Folks in the know have known about the decline for a long time and the regional bio's did nothing. One needs to look at the years immediatly prior to the Junction bighorn decline before they closed the LEH hunt. The opportunity to mitigate and take action was there long before the 5-03 herd got to where they are today. Back in 1997, we already knew the Cariboo Chilcotin grassland forest encroachment which led to some of the problems for sheep had declined by 30% between 1962 and 1993. Loss of open grassland habitat where the bighorns existed shrunk and impacted them over the long term along with associated predation increase.

Better late than never for action - but hind site 20/20 things could have got started many years sooner.

[srupp]

hmmm...watched this first hand for decades..from an abundance..to on the brink...and really is a multiple issue..

there is still a problem with rams especially being "harvested"| for ceremonial purposes..and then being offered for sale..seen it first hand..multiple times..

when asked most natives didnt like sheep meat...interesting..

their has been a tremendous amount of lung worm passed on and this is one major issue...

I agree with the wintering issues in a couple of instances bighorns DO need wide open corridors for long line of sight when doing migrations ie winter..

those along the Frase r dont need to move and dont..

the one herd of what was 5 rams is now 3 rams all big full curl rams are "not that far" from their traditional home of decades..but they have moved to what can only be classed as not traditional sheep habitat..however much easier to see from the air...they havnt moved in 4 years..

Its heartening to hear BCWSS and other have some plans....we have shipped sheep south of the border from here..I helped the transplant....maybe time to get some of ours back??


srupp

[blackbart]

Thanks Boxhitch. The one component of the article that you linked to is what I was referring to.

"Wildlife managers reported little increase in the now well established group between 1979 and 1981; therefore, to ensure the herd’s persistence and increase it’s genetic diversity, 6 animals from the Junction herd in Williams Lake were transplanted to the Harper Ranch area in 1985."

[REMINGTON JIM]

These sheep get parasites and they spread through the sheep herd. Interbreeding because they have no others to breed with. Their only cousins till 9 PM.
Jel .. Ask yourself how did California Sheep get from Calfornia through Oregon and into BC?

They walked ! How else would they have got here :confused: LOL RJ

[Jelvis]

They walked? Ok. lol. Chase was planted also. Kamloops got seven sheep from somewhere to start what is now hill fulls of Californias. They breed like ah, sheep lol.
Who knows it's all history, what we read and study about animals. We can believe it or doubt it.
Information is like eating roast chicken, you eat what you want and throw the rest out.
Jel .. Lots of sheep by Kamloops .. Cali's .. by the hundreds .. some huge full curl rams can be seen ..
Bunches of rams together and other sheep peering down from the dusty hills above you it's amazing 2 C

[358mag]

So were does BCWF stand on this ??????

[boxhitch]

Stand ? They are a stakeholder at the table. ???

[EvanG]

thanks for the info glad to hear a few people still care about the situation

[boxhitch]

Apathy
Another one of those situations where sportsman sat back and relied on the Gov't to do whats best. Somebody finally kicked the ashes, looking for an ember.
Where have we seen that before ?

[GoatGuy]

So were does BCWF stand on this ??????

Working the other end for a plan so 'we' can apply for emergency funding.

[Husky7mm]

If these sheep are on the brink, and predation is one of the factors then they would quailify for protection...... It already outlined in the policy for control of a species. Just nobody implamenting. Also I bet all kinds of cougars get chased all over that country, chased from their sheep or mulie they killed and up a tree in some other valley, if it is not a big fat head or its got a va-jj then it lives another day to be chased again...... and off it goes to find another sheep/mulie cause the ravens, and coyotes ate its kill....... Many parts of this province could really use alot less cats.

[358mag]

Working the other end for a plan so 'we' can apply for emergency funding.
Great to see them on board

[GoatGuy]

Parasites and mange is killing the sheep and spreading is what I'm hearing. It's happening in Keremeous now as well.
Remember these sheep are not native and have come from California so they have problems adapting to mule deer country here.
Jella Sheepo


Jelly, this one still has me laughing.

Does that mean the Canada goose was transplanted to the United States?

[frenchbar]

Jelly, this one still has me laughing.

Does that mean the Canada goose was transplanted to the United States?

that was rocko on the meds typing.....lol

[GoatGuy]

that was rocko on the meds typing.....lol

there ya go, figured rocko would tell us the stork had been transplanted from the womb............

[Jagermeister]

The Chase herd are not California BH, they are RMBH. Transplanted by the CPR around 1937.

[cascades]

disease and predation are key. The California Bighorn is native to the area. The Rocky Mtn bighorns around Spences Bridge were brought in. at any rate they are the same species. the fires in the yalakom area will help them out greatly, however the connection of the Blackdome mine to the Lillooet road system may have an adverse affect on the big horne sheep migration. Sona mines intend to connect their elizabeth mine at blue creek to Black dome south of Willies Puddle. This road will bisect the migration route from winter grounds to lambing rounds. Hmmm, maybe this why the sheep season is being curtailed, a pre-emptive strike against the upcoming improved access.

[The Dude]

As mentioned b4, hunting opportunity is cut because of a precipitous decline in numbers.
Due to several factors. *Ahem*

[boxhitch]

a pre-emptive strike against the upcoming improved access.Would be nice if there was some forward vision, somehow I doubt it.
Would be nice to think these issues were addressed in the initial environmental impact studies and EAB had some interest in wildlife. Not since Clark vowed to drop the barriers and full steam ahead.

[.330 Dakota]

Hopefully you didn't pay for that advice.

Free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it..quote (Forest Gump)