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View Full Version : Needlefish Spoon Prototype Test - A New KILLER Emerges!



IronNoggin
05-22-2012, 01:31 PM
HiYa Folk! Most here are likely aware of my fascination with chasing salmon along the WCVI. These days there is quite the selection of weapons to deploy in that pursuit, some might even suggest perhaps a little too much to choose from! LOL! But amongst that arsenal, the one thing I've always found lacking has been a spoon designed to successfully imitate Needlefish. This little prey item represents a rather large component of the diet for most salmon species, and especially so for those huge springs we encounter out there.

http://akr-mapping.fakr.noaa.gov/FishAtlasData/FishPhotos/PacificSandLanceAdult_1.jpg



While there are some decent hootchies that do the job, I greatly prefer to engage the fish without a flasher between us. So, over the years, I've experimented with a LOT of the various spoons out there, and found that while some do work, they simply were not consistent enough for me. What I've been seeking is something that will get a response pretty much every time I send it down, in a word, DEADLY.

About 4 years ago I decided that if the market didn't have what I wanted in this regard, perhaps I'd just have to Cowboy Up and design it myself. So, I sat down at the drawing board, and began to fiddle with a few ideas I thought might do the job. Over the next few years, I took my idea to several manufacturers, both here and offshore. To a one their responses were: Cost prohibitive to produce, too many bends to be practical, too complicated a design and finish... I really didn't agree, and surmised that this was likely their way of simply brushing me off. Jaded by their responses, I thought the idea would simply never wither and die a quiet death...

But the thing was something I wanted, and wanted BAD. Then this spring I casually mentioned the idea on one of the Forums, and to my pleasant surprise, one of the Members responded suggesting he might be willing to take the task on of getting the idea to the next step! So, I partnered up with him, fired off the specs, and anxiously awaited the first of the blanks that he ran off for testing...

Then a package arrived in the mail! Kinda surprising that something as simple as a handful of oval brass blanks could get me so pumped, but that it did! I immediately set out applying varying bends, concaves and more to the blanks, so many varying types it was tough to keep track! Afternoons found me standing in one of the local flows, dressed for the chase of steel, but instead staring wide eyed at the varying actions of the spoon the different combinations created! Standing mid-stream with that spoon dangling 5 feet off my rod must have been comical to those that wandered by methinks! After trying many variations of bends, hook sizes, flipper tails etc, I finally found the action I was looking for: a few flips like many spoons do, graduating to the distinct snake-like swimming action of a mature needlefish! Walla! The time for a REAL test was now at hand...

Late April found me working springs off the troller along the "Highway" out of Nootka. Nary a needlefish to be found in their tummies or on the sounder - krill and the odd herring were the items of choice. But I decided to give the prototype a whirl, and sent it down. Immediate reaction! Good Spring ON! Over the course of the afternoon, the little bugger outperformed our best hootchies, as the springs bypassed them from below to get at the spoon! After a dozen or so of the Large variety, I was satisfied. Even without needlefish around, the fish were convinced!!

A little better than a week later, we found ourselves off Solander Island / Cape Cook:

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa386/IronNoggin/Solander.jpg



The nearshore areas there are comprised of huge needlefish beds, and the springs were working them. Down went the spoon again - time for the best test I could come up with. Let the fish decide I mumbled as the spoon slid beneath the waves...
And again the reaction was nearly instant! A rather large spring let me know he liked the little offering, and that was shortly followed by many many more!! Approaching the number 30, my Partner finally demanded I pull the spoon and tuck it away. HUH? Lose that one what the hell will you send to the plant he queried. That one there is a KILLER. Reproduce it, and it alone. Don't risk losing it...
Kinda hurt to take it off the gear, but I realized he was right. Couldn't help but Grin though - a long time in the making being realized!!

I did take a good handful of pictures, but the damn memory card in the camera failed - lost them all. Dammit!

For testing purposes, I had simply taken one of the brass blanks, shot a coat of aluminum Tremclad over it, and painted it up with permanent Sharpies. Not an overly tough finish by any means, and it didn't take the fish long to beat most of that, and the holographic eye right off the blank. Still caught them quickly though, so I surmised the action was as much or even more key than the finish.

Here's a shot of what the spoon looked like when I pulled it - Ravaged!

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa386/IronNoggin/NeedleRavaged.jpg



The eventual product will be much more refined obviously! Nickle/Silver plating on top of the brass, and quality airbrush paint jobs to finish it off. Loads of work remain to be done, but we're finally on the way, and I couldn't be much happier!!

Here's the design template:

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa386/IronNoggin/NeedleFinal.jpg



Kinda wrestled with myself whether to put that one up or not. Hate to have someone snitch the idea this far into the game! Ah, but if they did, they'd soon understand why it took four bloody years of finicky fiddling to get the action just right!! So, that concern has been somewhat alleviated!!

Hopefully we'll have them up and ready for this year's impending offshore season! Already have so damn many orders I don't know when I'll find the time to get out there and use them myself, but you can bet your bottom dollar I WILL!! http://fishbcforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/lmao.gif

Cheers,
Nog

lip_ripper00
05-22-2012, 01:46 PM
"Necessity is the mother of invention" good job! Hope it works out for you, if you get stock this summer put my name on a couple and let me know how much.

Brew
05-22-2012, 01:50 PM
Good for you Nog. You stuck with your plan and looks like you have a killer lure there. Would love to give one a try. It looks great even all banged up. I am forever bending my coyote spoons to get the best action at slower speeds. Thanks for sharing and hopefully you have that thing patented and flying off the shelves at the tackle shops very soon.

Ozone
05-22-2012, 02:19 PM
The Chinese have been producing these for 30 minutes now. Expect to see them in a WalMart tomorrow.

IronNoggin
05-22-2012, 02:26 PM
The Chinese have been producing these for 30 minutes now. Expect to see them in a WalMart tomorrow.

LOL! :mrgreen:
Even with a year to spend, they couldn't match that one's ACTION Jackson!! :twisted:
And it was 3 of their companies that wouldn't touch the damn thing! :confused:

Thanks for the giggle though...

Cheers,
Nog

Hammerhead
05-22-2012, 02:42 PM
Hard work and determination always prevails! Well done and I wish you all the success when it gets to market.
HH

SUAFOYT
05-22-2012, 03:09 PM
Don't mean to be a stick in the mud but you wouldn't be the first to have a great idea and have someone pinch it. Is there an easy way to protect the product and the concept so someone else doesn't get it out there first. The knockoff artists don't care if it works, just that the uneducated buy it. Good luck with the product. Looks good.

pnbrock
05-22-2012, 03:25 PM
Better get a Paton on thAt beuty. I'll take a dozen!!

GrandA
05-22-2012, 03:29 PM
good for you - most people never execute an idea - Congrats

Jeff88
05-22-2012, 03:35 PM
that thing looks hotter than hell ..hey nog,im heading thru port on thursday ..going to spend 4 days at my cabin in barclay sound ...u got any more for sale ...or should i say ...got any to sport fish test ...ill be flyin 4 rods with all different gear .i will gladly be the sport fishing guinnie pig for you

IronNoggin
05-22-2012, 04:03 PM
...u got any more for sale ...or should i say ...got any to sport fish test ...

The original prototype h went to the shop this very day. They're gearing up for it's arrival, but it will likely be several weeks before any become available. Going to be an "In-House" production - right here in good ol' BC! :mrgreen:

Thanks for all the kind words Folks! I am VERY pleased that this turned out even better than I expected!
And I do understand the concerns about "knock-offs", but without the dedicated time to task, anything anyone produces won't likely come close. And of course, we'll be packaging in a rather recognizable fashion.

Letcha know as this comes along. Methinks a good handful of those Hawg Springs better start shakin' in their boots! :twisted:

Cheers,
Nog

IronNoggin
05-23-2012, 12:10 PM
The response to the posts I ran up yesterday have been nothing short of overwhelming! Interest is high, and folks from a wide geographic range are seeking orders. Perhaps I should have waited until the shop was running them off, but I was so pleased and excited with the progress to date I very much wanted to share! With orders now pushing the 1,000 piece mark, the shop is frantically gearing up for production. Hopefully that goes smooth, and we'll see the first run in the not-to-distant future!

Patience is a virtue they say, although I must be damn near void of "virtues" as I can hardly contain my excitement! That said, methinks the little wait will be well worth it! In the meantime, I'll be whiling away the time working on developing the next in this series - a slightly smaller version to imitate immature needlefish...

Thanks to all for the interest! Will of course letcha know when they are ready to swim...

Cheers,
Nog

The Dude
05-23-2012, 12:29 PM
Ahhhh...the Needle Noggin? lol
I'm trying to deal with the Chinese right now on a new product. It's interesting, isn't it?
Next Superpower huh? They can't even read my RFQs correctly. :-(

Weatherby Fan
05-23-2012, 12:33 PM
Hey Nog
Dam,I leave Sunday with that lodge for the QCI's to bad I couldn't get one from you to run a few tests for ya,I would gladly buy a 1/2 dozen to try out.
WF

dime
05-23-2012, 02:44 PM
My Dad has been trying to produce this exact product for himself for a few years now. He has been using everything from lead to copper to steel, has finally produced a product that looks eerily similar to yours. Convergent evolution at work. His is not a commercial venture, just wants to catch fish. How do we buy them once they are in production?

guest
05-23-2012, 03:48 PM
As said Matt on the other SITE to you.. Congrats and I wish you huge luck ! The next Jim Gilbert has risen ....... I will take a few dozen for sure maybe more.

HT

doubled
05-23-2012, 04:58 PM
Matt, I see you are at it again. And I thought your creation for the pilchards was something else - now this??? WTF?? Are you part magician??

A true sea dog my friend.

Fishhound
05-23-2012, 08:03 PM
Although I don't get the opportunity to fish for salmon often, I can see a real need for myself to try a couple of your new spoons on the lakers in Kalamalka Lake and the rainbows in Okanagan Lake.

I can't imagine that they won't work so please let me know when/where I can purchase some when they hit the market.

Good on you

IronNoggin
05-24-2012, 10:46 AM
I'm trying to deal with the Chinese right now on a new product. It's interesting, isn't it?
Next Superpower huh? They can't even read my RFQs correctly. :-(

LOL! More than a little truth in that Buddy!! :wink:


My Dad has been trying to produce this exact product for himself for a few years now. He has been using everything from lead to copper to steel, has finally produced a product that looks eerily similar to yours. Convergent evolution at work. His is not a commercial venture, just wants to catch fish. How do we buy them once they are in production?

That is damn interesting! I'd like to chat with him sometime about how he worked with his prototypes, and what he ended up settling on. Seems when there is a recognized need, there are those who will take the task to hand. Often surprising when the desired end result is so close, that the actual development can be so parallel without ever having spoken!
I didn't start off with a "commercial venture" in mind by any means. Simply wanted what was missing from my arsenal - a Deadly Needlefish Spoon - to enhance my catch rate both commercial trolling and sportin' it. Didn't quite expect the level of success we encountered, so once that was realized, also recognized there were likely a lot of others out there looking for the same thing. Taken on a life of it's own now...
We're in discussions with a couple of outlets as far as marketing goes. The initial thousand will simply be through myself and my partner, but I certainly don't want that to take over my life, so will be setting something up to accommodate. Will post once the details are in hand...


Matt, I see you are at it again. And I thought your creation for the pilchards was something else - now this??? WTF?? Are you part magician??

LOL! I have the odd moment my Friend! Given my background (marine biologist) and lust for plying the chuck, it's not all that surprising really that I am constantly looking for ways to improve the success of the latter. Damn near outdid myself this time I think! Couldn't be more Pleased with the results!!

Just chatted with the shop - they're in full swing getting geared up and sending me a few more prototypes for the next (smaller) size in the series. Gonna be damn busy over the next while alright! I'll post as things develop, and certainly let ya'll know when they are ready to begin to hunt!

Cheers & Thanks Folks!! :mrgreen:
Nog

kennyj
05-24-2012, 06:24 PM
Good for you. There's nothing like making your own lures and catching fish on them. I'll take a few when they're ready to go.
kenny

Dragginbait
05-24-2012, 08:32 PM
Count me in for some as well...

proguide66
05-24-2012, 09:16 PM
Pretty cool.I havent seen the rocks of that point since I was 18 yrs old on an old ice boat slayin springs by hand back when lrg reds were $4.75 lb ! cool memories.
I have a 'bit' of experience on the gear idea. I used to tie and package lures for my uncle years back when in school.I was also trying to come up with a hali set up I made ( wich slayed) with the owner of a local established gear producer( Radiant Lures).
'Word is' ( from the established guys) was when/if you come up with gear of your own you first ( ob viously) have to prove it works.
The next 'important' piece of knowlege dropped was " you will make your initial $$ in the beginning when you first deliver your item to the shelf. You will 'hope' to get some large orders off the bat and want to flood shelves to the max with your initial opener , anything after that is a bonus."
" It will take farr more $$ to patent a product than you will make ( with fishing lures) , chances are that 'someone' in a foreign country will do a knock off and you will more than likely NOT have big enough funds to fight em and more than likely a fishing lure will not generate enough $$ for you to make enough money for yourself and to pay lawyers with."
Also , " you are encouraged to stamp ' patent pending' on your goods as its a 'slight scare tactic' to potential 'theft' of your product and perfectly legal to do so".( I have noticed 'patent pending' on many good since hearing that one).
One other avenue that can produce a regular paycheque is to sell it to a local established gear producer. I know a guy who came up with a 'simple hook up' and sold it to Rhyse Davis years back and he recieved 'X' amount of cents pr sold item and probably still gets a cheque from them.

Anyway , all I got for free 'first hand knowlege' to donate...good luck !

Phreddy
05-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Reminds me of when the Stingzelda first came out in Campbell River in the "70's. That damned lure caught more fish than just about every other artificial lure put to together. Similar design but yours is more of a spoon type. We'd jig the "zelda" just off the bottom and it was far more effective when the treble hook was replaced with a single hook. Made a lot of money in tips using that rig.
Good for you for coming up with a winner Iron Noggin. They're few and far between

300H&H
05-27-2012, 06:28 PM
Outstanding Nog !

I love the entrepreneurial spirit.

FYI by posting it here you have shown everyone that this lure is your intellectual property.
But still...take the time to cover your a$$ and talk to a person who knows about protecting your idea.

IronNoggin
05-29-2012, 11:02 AM
... Anyway , all I got for free 'first hand knowlege' to donate...good luck !

Good Info! Well Appreciated!


FYI by posting it here you have shown everyone that this lure is your intellectual property.
But still...take the time to cover your a$$ and talk to a person who knows about protecting your idea.

We are ON that! I'll have to wait until everything is in place, then can letcha just how we were advised to cover our butts in Canada & the US in this regard.

Not going to farm out the production. Instead we are keeping this an In-House BC project. A HUGE Learning Curve for both me and my Partner, but we're making headway...

Should have the first run up in a couple of weeks. Thanks for all the interest, PM's and E's! Gotten a LOT of interest and support, which tells me I wasn't alone in missing a good reliable needlefish spoon! :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Nog

bighornbob
05-29-2012, 11:16 AM
One other avenue that can produce a regular paycheque is to sell it to a local established gear producer. I know a guy who came up with a 'simple hook up' and sold it to Rhyse Davis years back and he recieved 'X' amount of cents pr sold item and probably still gets a cheque from them.
!

If you ever watch Dragon Den or the Shark Tank (basically same show) they always preach this. They argue all the time for people to sell their idea to an established company that already has their stuff in stores and sit at home and get a cheque monthly (based on every unit sold). They say why try and fight them, when in the end they will just copy your product with a slight change and mass produce it.


BHB

300H&H
05-29-2012, 03:01 PM
If you ever watch Dragon Den or the Shark Tank (basically same show) they always preach this. They argue all the time for people to sell their idea to an established company that already has their stuff in stores and sit at home and get a cheque monthly (based on every unit sold). They say why try and fight them, when in the end they will just copy your product with a slight change and mass produce it.


BHB

He has a good point.

steelheadSABO
06-01-2012, 06:06 PM
so what are you going to name them?

dime
06-10-2012, 11:53 AM
I wonder if you have had any success in actually catching needlefish? The only way we have ever got any is from a salmon's gut, but we are interested in catching some for bait purposes. I was thinking a herring jig but with smaller hooks might do the trick. Any suggestions?

IronNoggin
06-11-2012, 11:42 AM
I wonder if you have had any success in actually catching needlefish?

You see the size of the mouths on those things? Awfully TINY! Methinks even a herring rig might be a tad too large?
Have had the odd one come up impaled on the gear from time to time - must be rather thick down there when that happens!
The rest I photographed were generally puked up by springs on deck. Did collect a few from one of the research boats 2 years ago - they were dragging a plankton tow (fine net) just off the floor and drug up a good handful. That might be do-able, but I'd suggest checking the regs before getting too far along with it...

Cheers,
Nog

338 Mag
06-13-2012, 08:34 PM
Hey these look good , are you taking orders yet....Let me know Thanks Greg