Which Scope to buy?

[NickS]

New to hunting, I have a Tikka T3 and an old redfield scope which is doing it no justice. At the top of my list I wanted to buy the Bushnell Elite Tactical 4.5-30x; does anyone have or know of issues with the turrets bumping off what they've been set to during handling? Is it more of a bench and range scope? If that's the case I was thinking the Elite 6500 in the same power. I was looking at a Millet as well the price is great compared to the Bushnell but am I getting close to the same quality? Any input would be welcomed.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Is this a big game hunting rifle or a target-varmit gun :confused: because 30 x is no good for a big game hunting rifle at all ! If a hunting rifle i would look at max power of 16 and 12-14 would be better ! Look at a 4-12 or 4-16 type of scope for a hunting rifle ! :) JMHO RJ

[elkdom]

I agree, there is NO WAY a Tikka T3 can do justice for an ol' Redfield Scope!,,,,:lol:


but if you insist on more magnification ?

a hunting scope for general big game hunting is BEST between 3x9x and 4x14x

[r106]

X3 with the other guy's. Need to know what the intended use for it is. And whats your price range?

In my opinion, better glass is better than more zoom. For example. I have a 6500 2-16X40 on my 223 and it works good but it's hard to see my bullet holes @ 200 yards with 16Xzoom, but with my Luepold vx3 2.5-10X40. I can see them with 10X. IMO your better of with a lower power/better glass. Until you get into Nightforce optics and other high end brands were the quality glass is worth looking through @ high zoom

[Singleshotneeded]

The Bushnell Elite 6500 in 2-16X40 with rainguard for those wet days would make an excellent hunting scope!
Meopta makes a Meostar line of scopes whose glass is equal to the very expensive German-Austrian scopes,
but whose price tag is right in there with the 6500. No rainguard though, but beautiful glass.
Several custom rifle makers in the US recommend them...they're the best value in high end scopes.

[NickS]

It's the tactical version of the rifle, I'll be using it for target, deer, and big game. It's 300 win mag. I know, kinda all over the place as far as purpose goes. That's the reason why the higher magnification interests me. I may eventually go buy a more light weight 270 or something, but these things all cost money and I still want good glass for this rifle. Why is it that a high magnification is no good for game?

[r106]

I would take a look @ these http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/scopes/centerfire-rifle-scopes/vx-ii-target-scope/prod203927.html

Remember you don't need 30X zoom to take 600 yard shots 14-18 is more than enough. IMO if you want a good target scope thats up to 30X zoom be prepared to spend 1000$-1800$

[knightcc]

Its not that good for big game because in the field, you never really have bench rest stability that would let you effectively use a 20x power. You also need to be able to carry this rifle alot so weight is important. I agree with r106 better glass is better than higher mag. I have a 1-4 x 20 Leup VX3 and it is brighter edge to edge than a buddy's Tasco with a 40mm objective. I have a Zeiss Conquest 3-9 x 40 on my 300 Win Mag and it is well balanced and great to carry. Look at Leupold VX3's if you can swing one, Vortex Viper (great warranties on both these scopes) and Zeiss IMO. You can spend way more and not get that much more in performance. However if you spend less, you will get much less in performance.

Good Luck.

[NickS]

I likely wouldn't use up to the 30x zoom for hunting. I'm hearing a lot of good things about the Luepolds, are they worth all the extra money? And does anyone know anymore about the quality of the Bushnells?

[pescado]

Here good things about the Bushnell 4200 series. Some put them right there with the Vx-3's and the Conquest's, so that is good company. Starting to here more about the Minox's and Meopta's as well. Lots of good choices out there and lots of information on-line. Go to opticstalk and review what they have to say. Your going to be the one that makes the decision and there are lots of choices. Vortex and Sightron are another couple to review. You haven't really defined the scopes purpose yet,( All round hunting, long range, big game, varmint). Good luck, sounds like you've got some $$ to spend and you'll end up with the right scope if you keep looking.

[NickS]

Well I spent quite a bit on the gun, so I'm saving to put a decent scope to match it. It's gunna be an all around target and hunting gun(it's 300 win mag, so deer and bigger). That's why I was thinking Elite 6500, it's got rainguard and the turrets have caps so not bad for weather. Is opticstalk on huntingbc? Or a different sight all together?

[REMINGTON JIM]

I likely wouldn't use up to the 30x zoom for hunting. I'm hearing a lot of good things about the Luepolds, are they worth all the extra money? And does anyone know anymore about the quality of the Bushnells?

I have Leupolds and Bushnells and Vortex and Redfield ! I still think of those 4 the Leupolds are the BEST ! :-D JMHO RJ

[Singleshotneeded]

I think you'd be well pleased with an Elite 6500 for hunting...in real world hunting situations with some shaking, etc, anymore
than 10X is really not useable. However, the 6500 has a 2-14X40 model that should be perfect for you, the top powers for
shooting targets at a bench. Having 4200s myself, I can tell you the Rainguard has been a hunt saver for me when it's started
to rain. The Meopta Meostar 4-12X40 sells in the US for $800, and it's glass is as good as any scope out there...if you're looking
more for a target shooting scope that'll also work for hunting, you won't match the Meostar's optics for less than $1500 at least.

[NickS]

Thanks. Where I live there realistically won't be any game shots exceeding 200 yards. But I do want to use it for bench and target as well. I'll have a look at the Meopta's.

[NickS]

Thanks. I have been looking at Luepolds as well, they are definitely nice, very pricey too though. Side note: how do you like your Marlin 45-70? I was browsing saddle guns and I had my eye on that one.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Sometimes there is good use Leupolds to be had by a certain member on here -if you like i could check with him and see if he has any for sale - i just got a used -very nice 3.5-10 leupold from him for a very good price .
As for my Marlin it is a great rifle i will keep forever ! - good shooter and FUN to shoot ! - the 45-70 is a Great short range hunting cartridge - its a bang-flop cartridge ! LOL RJ

[NickS]

So good for dangerous game with the diameter and punch of the round? And nice and short to fit in a saddle scabard.
I appreciate it, though I think I will go for a longer range scope, and the Luepolds are getting close to $2000 in the kind of scope I want. I'll likely toy the gun up the way I want it, use it for hunting this year, then in the future I'll probably use it for big game and long range hunting like elk and goat. May just buy a cheaper, lighter, and smaller caliber deer gun with a 3-9x combo set or something. Everyones giving great advice for a hunting scope. I think it's more of a temporary hunting rifle as it is already quite heavy. So as far as the use goes, I guess it's safe to say I want it for mostly bench, target, and long range big game (not that I'm any good yet or have a guided elk trip booked).
So as far as quality goes: you get what you pay for?

[REMINGTON JIM]

I got offered at the kammy gun show a new in box 4.5 -14 V111 leupold scope for $650.00 tax in - a very good buy ! PM for more info if you like ! :) RJ

[Jagermeister]

What seems to be the problem with the Redfield? If the Redfield is early vintage, like some where in the 80's, it probably is a really good scope. Better than the Bushnells and as good as the Leupold of that era.
So, if the Redfield is tight, not fogging up, tube not bent and cosmetics still in good shape, there would be no reason to change.
Why long range shooting? Don't have the ability to get closer? Unless you are at the range every week shooting distances beyond 400 meters, shots taken at distances beyond 400 meters are "Hail Mary" shots.

[RiverOtter]

I appreciate it, though I think I will go for a longer range scope, and the Luepolds are getting close to $2000 in the kind of scope I want.

So as far as quality goes: you get what you pay for?

A .300 WM, with a VX-3 (3.5-10x40), a guy could rule the world and still be well shy of a grand, all in.....
If you wanna "Toy" it up, get Korth to install and M1 elevation turret, and you'd still have a good chunk of change left from a grand.

The tacti-cool scopes do look like "The Chit" at first blush, but I'll guarrantee once you've packed a chunky high X scope around and killed a couple critters, you'll realize you don't need nor want a buncha fluff. You did mention you are new to hunting, so I will say that most of the advice given above is spot on, and will save you money and won't disappoint you.

Whatever scope you choose, add a pair of these, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8fXo34tdnI
Thank me later........:-D

[Weatherby Fan]

"Quote RiverOtter"
A .300 WM, with a VX-3 (3.5-10x40), a guy could rule the world and still be well shy of a grand, all in.....
If you wanna "Toy" it up, get Korth to install and M1 elevation turret, and you'd still have a good chunk of change left from a grand.

This is very sound advice from RiverOtter a voice of experience I'm thinking,

In my limited experience I haven't seen a better scope for the money,warranty that u wont need,weight,quality optics and durability than a Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40
I own several of them and in 25yrs of use I have never had to rezero one or send one in for warranty work.
Six people in my family hunt they all use that same scope and have never been let down.
This would be the scope I would recommend,as RiverOtter said above you can add a M1 turret or go to the load specific CDS model,you will not be dissapointed in a Leupold VX3 and it will last a lifetime if you take care of it.
WF

[elkdom]

What seems to be the problem with the Redfield? If the Redfield is early vintage, like some where in the 80's, it probably is a really good scope. Better than the Bushnells and as good as the Leupold of that era.
So, if the Redfield is tight, not fogging up, tube not bent and cosmetics still in good shape, there would be no reason to change.
Why long range shooting? Don't have the ability to get closer? Unless you are at the range every week shooting distances beyond 400 meters, shots taken at distances beyond 400 meters are "Hail Mary" shots.

lol "HAIL-MARY, full of hope, deliver us from ignorance and delusion !, AMEN !

during the 1970's when I was in the CAF we used a Parker_Hale-CIAI Sniper Rifle(converted Mauser98 bolt action)chambered in 7.62 NATO(.308Win) topped with a Kahles ZF-6X fixed power scope, I fired 1000's of rounds of military FMJ ball ammo to 700 yards, 4 inch ,700 yard groups were not uncommon,, hence my avatar

so that type of caliber and optics, nowadays this is not sufficient fire-power for BC "super-hunters" scaring the "steroid enhanced" Super-deer in modern day British Columbia,,, :?

[NickS]

There isn't anything wrong with the Redfield, and I have it dialed in real nice at 150 yards, but it isn't my scope, a friend lent it to me after I blew 1800 on the rifle.

[NickS]

Thanks river otter. I was planning on just picking some flip ups as soon as I bought the scope. :)

[NickS]

Thanks elkdom, I have no excuses or good arguments as to why I like the Bushnell 6500 and Elite scopes. I really did just think they were cool. That's why I came on here for some educated advice.

[Jagermeister]

You are one of the few on here that would be qualified to shoot beyond the 400 meter range.
Hell, I would bet that more than 90% on here have never been to a range that exceeded 300 meters. Wait, I might be repeating myself here. Maybe SUAFOYT can check that out and verify the post.:wink:
Nick, I have to agree with you, you did blow 1800 on the Tikka. You could've bought a CZ LUX 550, CZ rings and a 3X9 Ziess for approximately the same $.

[Weatherby Fan]

There isn't anything wrong with the Redfield, and I have it dialed in real nice at 150 yards, but it isn't my scope, a friend lent it to me after I blew 1800 on the rifle.

Hey NickS

I don't mean to pry but where or what shop charged you 1800.00 for a Tikka Rifle ? as I'll be sure and never shop there !
WF

[NickS]

It always comes down to buying what you want. And I bought the rifle on impulse, I heard good things about it, so I don't regret buying it. And you're all right I'm no "super sniper" I'm still learnin to shoot. I just wanted some advice on good glass. And I seem to be getting it. If the redfield was mine I would probably be more worried about collecting other gear. As I said likely I will buy a lighter rifle in a .270 cal or something for packing around, but it all costs money and I still need my own glass for the Tikka. But what I'm getting is that I don't need more then a 3x-9x, but a 4x-14x would be a good hunting target combo? And Leupolds are the tried and true croud favorite?

[NickS]

It was wholesale sports, and as I say it's the T3 "tactical" you won't find it for too much cheaper elsewhere.

[Weatherby Fan]

It was wholesale sports, and as I say it's the T3 "tactical" you won't find it for too much cheaper elsewhere.

Sorry I was under the impression it was a T3 Lite.
WF

[NickS]

Yep. Sorry I only mentioned that earlier in the thread anyways. I admit its a heavy gun, and maybe some day I'll get one thats more appropriate for hunting. But it'll do the trick for now.

[pescado]

I see the 3-9x40 Conquest selling for $480 and that scope would be hard to beat for your purposes. They are a good "Bang for Buck" and will hang in there with a Vx-3. Differences are in the preferences of the user.

[NickS]

I'm pretty stuck on the Bushnells I think, havn't heard any bad things about them, been doing a bit more homework, I like the options and the quality for the price. I'll likely go with a 4200 or 6500 not sure what power yet though.

[RiverOtter]

Before you spend hard earned cash on a Bushy, do some research on customer "SATISFACTION", especially in the warranty department.

I've dealt with them exactly ONCE, and THEY SUCK.....And I can assure you I'm not alone...

While you're at it, do some research on Leupold warranty, if only to prove I'm not bullchitting.....

[NickS]

Seems to be like buying a car, some have problems some don't. They have a product guarantee and if somethings wrong you get a new one.

[frenchbar]

1 of the best scopes ive owned was an older 70s redfeild in 3x9x40.. knocked over a lot of muleys with the help of that scope in 25 yrs of use .

[REMINGTON JIM]

I sent my B&L Elite Binos to Bushnell Canada on Jan 10-2012 for new rubber eyecups and a service job and did not get them back till March 15 -2012 - thats 5 days over 2 months !
WAY !!!!!!!!!!! to long just for rubber eye cups and service ! :-?

JMHO RJ

[NickS]

1 of the best scopes ive owned was an older 70s redfeild in 3x9x40.. knocked over a lot of muleys with the help of that scope in 25 yrs of use .

Yes indeed, but the redfield isn't mine.

[NickS]

I sent my B&L Elite Binos to Bushnell Canada on Jan 10-2012 for new rubber eyecups and a service job and did not get them back till March 15 -2012 - thats 5 days over 2 months !
WAY !!!!!!!!!!! to long just for rubber eye cups and service ! :-?

JMHO RJ
Jim do you know any good gun shops in the south cariboo, who can give good advice and have a good selection of good glass in store?

[REMINGTON JIM]

I just sent you a PM ! :-D RJ

[Phreddy]

One of, and there are several, biggest problems with Leupold is their backup service. If you have a spare scope you might be ok, but expect to wait one hell of a long time to get it back when you send it for service. Turn around time for Leupolds is more like a couple of weeks. Vortex also makes an excellent scope and so far their service has been great as well.
I've found the extra money on a Leupold is well worth it. Go to some gun shows and you will see a lot of folks dumping Bushnells dirt cheap because they really are a piece of crap. Used Leupolds, however, maintain a good resale value because most folks know they'r a great scope.

[Phreddy]

Actually Nick, if you want to pay out all that money for a Bushnell, fill your boots. When you discover that you have to wait until the end of the season before you get it back from a warranty job until after the season ends and want to sell it, you can join the multitude of others who made that mistake and are trying to sell them for about 25 cents on the dollar. I'll take it off your hands for $40 and sell it on my table at the shows for about $50 if it's in excellent shape with no marks.

[NickS]

I have a friend with a ziess and and a friends dad/old foreman with a leupold, neither scopes are very old and both are already fogging. But on here it does seem the leupolds are the favorite.

[NickS]

Anyone know which scopes tend to have good eye relief? The redfield I'm using now is brutal.

[pescado]

Go to the specs. on the Companies sites and you'll find the eye reliefs listed. The eye relief will change depending on scope of same manufacture. In other words a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 has an eye relief of3.5" were a 3-9x40 has an eye relief of 4.0". Leupolds eye relief varies depending on power chosen on a variable power. on there 3.5-10x40 it goes from 4.4" on low power to 3.6" @ 10x. Why Leupold makes there scopes like that who knows?? You will find that info in the specs. You may be able to find what your Redfields is and know that you want something larger. Keep doing your homework and you'll find one you like.

[Matty_ola]

From what I gather you're looking for a scope with a med-high Magnification range, adjustable target style turrets, fairly mid weight and mid priced.

Judging by the fact you bought a T3 Tactical you probably thought you'd get a good entry long range rig that will double as a hunting rifle. You're absolutely correct, the only real downfall to that rifle is weight. However don't let the weight of a rifle determin it's use, I use a 20lb rig for hunting and with the appropriate pack you'd never know it was even there.

Here's a couple manufactures you need to look at. Not in any particular order but have a look, each one will have a Tactical style scope you're looking for that will work well for LR and hunting situations.

-Sightron SIII
-Zeiss Conquest with Target Turrets
-Falcon (entry level Tactical)
-Millet (another entry level tactical)
-SuperSniper (if you can find one in Canada)
-Trijicon
-Hi-Lux
-Vortex

PM me if you've got any questions about where to get these brands, I've done a few tests and reviews on most of these scopes and I'd be happy to share my results.

[onlysauer]

Lots of parallax on Meopta and not even close to Swarovski/Zeiss Those are alpha scopes.Ihave two Z6i first and second generation but I had a Meopta that I sold,no comparison not even a starting point

[Singleshotneeded]

I've used Bushnell Elite 3200 and 4200 scopes for years, and never had any problems. They're bright, reliable,
and I really like that Rainguard coating when it starts to rain. The price is right as well, about half the price of
Leupold, so the way several of us see it is if we should ever have a warranty issue, and it's hunting season,
we'll send the scope to Bushnell and buy another. When the other comes back we'll have two good scopes.
You can sell one or keep it as insurance in case you ever have an issue again...better yet use it as an excuse
to buy another rifle to mount it on! :-)

[Farmer001]

Biggest issue I have come across is the quality in low light conditions and this is what you pay for, being early or late day hunts you have a bit more viz. I personally have relied on good binos to make the decision but have lost a few critters by those few seconds that if the scope was abit more clear could have made that call to pull the trigger. Buy what you can afford and spend the rest on gas. Equipment failure happens all the time, you do what you can and rely on shithouse luck for the rest.

[BCBRAD]

For a hunting rifle 10X is about as high as I want to go, but if you are an ambush type hunter , all set up for a long shot then higher power may be useful. In field conditions I use 6X on the variable, also have 6X fixed as well. A Bushnell 4-30 Tactical Elite sits on my target rifle, its a 260Rem and can take big game way out there with a precision shot. After a couple hundred+ rounds the scope tracks well (perfect) glass is good up to about 22X then it darkens some. For knocking around in the bush I'd go with Luepold 3.5x10 or 4x14 and a 40mm objective. As far as warranty on scopes go, Luepold is hard to beat , about a 2 week turn around with Korth. I take two hunting rifles with me if its more than a day hunt, so if one fails or gets damaged then I am not sol

[wlbc]

Morning NickS,

Some good council and lot's of opinion so far but that's normal. I'll add to it...:)

First off let's talk turrets. Most people never shoot enough to have the need for them. Let's look at this, with a 300wm you are basically shooting hair out to 300 yards - no need for turrets. And out to about 600 yards a ballistic reticle easily puts you on the money ( with a 3006 or 338 anyway). So from a utility perspective you may want to ponder this. Are you really going to use them?

Then there is the practical perspective, turrets are bulky and over a day's vigorous hunting they can and do get in the way and they can get moved (like in and out of a scabbard); now at last light your shot on that 1 in 1000 comes and you miss because your turrets got moved.

Speaking from actual experience on owning an upper end scope with turrets and a ballistic reticle the turrets were a pain for most of the hunting I tend to do. If I was sitting in a stand and may take some 500 plus yard shots then a turret may be the ticket. Having said that though they are interesting and effective to play with for punching paper at greater distances - but not required. And finally, on turrets, unless you are buying a better quality scope ($1000and up) the turret reliability and repeatability may be an issue.

Of the lower to mid range scopes that you or others have mentioned the Bushnell Elites, Leupold VX-3's, and the Zeiss Conquests are all a decent scope. These are scopes I own or have owned and I can vouch for with certainty. The Bushnell Elites are an outstanding value although I would lean toward a 4200 or 6200 for the extra brightness. The Leupold VX-3's have good eye relief and okay glass for this range. Nothing wrong with them but they do tend to get over hyped IMO. Of the three, from my actual experience, I would lean toward the Conquest for superior lower priced glass and a very useable ballistic reticle. I regularly shoot out to 500 yards with a 3-9x40 Conquest with their ballistic reticle - works very well.

I've heard good things about Kahles, Meopta, Sightron, and Vortex both personally and from reading forums like this but lacking actual experience with them I will refrain from commenting other than as noted they are supposed to be fine scopes as well.

You were asking for peoples views so here is mine. What it all boils down to is this, get yourself a Zeiss Conquest, a Bushnell Elite, or a Leupold VX-3. Get it with 3-9 magnification and that manufacturers version of a ballistic reticle. IIRC they are Rapid Z - Zeiss, DOA - Bushnell, or Boone and Crockett - Leupold. These are all solid scopes that will serve you well and won't break the bank while you save for a truly good piece of glass. It will also give you a chance to evaluate whether you want turrets on a hunting rig.

[pescado]

Very well said WLBC. I agree with what you've said.

[RiverOtter]

I've used Bushnell Elite 3200 and 4200 scopes for years, and never had any problems. They're bright, reliable, and I really like that Rainguard coating when it starts to rain.

A 300/338 RUM will chew through one of those POS in under 200 rounds, I've seen it twice on pards rifles, and almost to the round. A minor tumble will send a Bushy to the promise land as well, or if you're "LUCKY", just knock it way off zero. Good thing for Bushy, most Joes won't burp anywhere near 200 brass in their lifetime, so it's almost like a "Lifetime" warranty...:-D. As far as the "Rain Guard" you worship so much, a $12 BC Flip-up works way better and keeps dust, grime, and WATER off. "RG" is nothing more than a sales gimmick to get more guys to buy CHIT they would otherwise steer clear of; hats off to the marketers at Bushy though.


The price is right as well, about half the price of Leupold, so the way several of us see it is if we should ever have a warranty issue, and it's hunting season, we'll send the scope to Bushnell and buy another. When the other comes back we'll have two good scopes. You can sell one or keep it as insurance in case you ever have an issue again...better yet use it as an excuse to buy another rifle to mount it on! :-)

That is some "SAGE" advice right there....:roll:
You spend several thousand dollars on gear, gas, and accessories, then "SAVE" a couple hundred bucks on the very device that connects the dots that you spend all the time and money to line up. To listen to you talk about spending the money you saved on one POS, to finance another POS is frickin' hilarious, too; as if the failure is gonna occur at the range and not on the animal of a lifetime.

[wlbc]

A 300/338 RUM will chew through one of those POS in under 200 rounds, I've seen it twice on pards rifles, and almost to the round. A minor tumble will send a Bushy to the promise land as well, or if you're "LUCKY", just knock it way off zero. Good thing for Bushy, most Joes won't burp anywhere near 200 brass in their lifetime, so it's almost like a "Lifetime" warranty...:-D. As far as the "Rain Guard" you worship so much, a $12 BC Flip-up works way better and keeps dust, grime, and WATER off. "RG" is nothing more than a sales gimmick to get more guys to buy CHIT they would otherwise steer clear of; hats off to the marketers at Bushy though.


Good morning RiverOtter,

I have a 1-4 4200 with over 500 rounds on a 416 Rigby and it still works fine and I can assure you that it recoils more vigorously than those two RUM's (of which I have shot both a fair amount).

I did take the 4200 off my Rigby last year and put it on a Marlin 4570 because the post interfered with longer range shooting.

Not trying to pick a fight just saying from my actual experience the 4200 Elite series has been very durable.

[RiverOtter]

Fair 'nuff...Everyone gets lucky once in a while, or maybe the 1-4 is the hidden "jewel" of their lineup.....:-D

I've just seen way too many Bushy's fail to ever trust one on any of my hunts; combine that with their warranty "Turn around Time", assuming they even warranty it, and I'll pass on B's everytime.

For conversation, both the sub 200 round failures were with 4200's...

[wlbc]

Fair 'nuff...Everyone gets lucky once in a while, or maybe the 1-4 is the hidden "jewel" of their lineup.....:-D


"hidden jewel" I've never heard it put that way before. :)

[pescado]

Leupolds are good scopes, I have a vx-3. I don't understand how they can charge $150-$200 more in Canada than in the USA. The Conquest, Bushnell and even my last Swaro was real close to what I would have paid for it South of the border. A vx-3 3.5-10x40 goes for around $620-$650 in Canada, $480ish in the States. A Conquest 3-9x40 in Canada $480-$500, $430-$450 State side. Leupold has a strong following in Canada and there prices reflect it. IMO they are priced a bit high in Canada.

[6.5x55mm]

So my advice because its a T3 Tactical that may be used for hunting. Zeiss conquest 4.5-14x44mm with the z-600 reticle.

[NickS]

I have my eyes on a savage american classic that I want in .270, I'll get that or something like it and throw a 3x9 on it for hunting(can only afford so much shit at once). My Tikka is gunna be heavy I know, I'm getting a brake, a bipod, and a higher power scope, I don't need to be convinced what I do or don't need, it'll do for this season, and other long range sort of hunting trips.
What I'm getting though generally is that Bushnells are both awesome and crap, Leupolds are the worlds greatest scopes! (I have 3 hunting buddies with 3 good scopes so to speak, the bushnell guy has had no problems, both the ziess and the leupold are fogging and need to get that issue fixed..... All purchased fairly recently btw)
How about the vortex pst's? I've heard great things about warranty service, anyone figure on the quality?

[Bobfl]

I had the elite on m,y tikka t-3 300 . I broke it after one season. It is a good scope but not for the 300 mag. I went to a 4500 bushnell. last yr. great optics and exellant in low light. It also can take the vibration. If I had to buy again I would buy the 6500. A little more money

[NickS]

Ya I want something that will stay sighted nicely after putting plenty of rounds down range with my 300.

[Singleshotneeded]

RiverOtter, you're just a scope snob! You have a Gucci wallet too? Lol, like wlbc, I've had my Bushnell 4200 for years and hundreds
of rounds, as well as plenty of animals, and it's never let me down. The Rainguard for me and many other people works well and lets
us see to make a shot in the rain, and the scopes are clear and bright. I also use pop up covers when I'm going through the bush, but
with Rainguard I can keep them flipped up once I'm on stand and I'm ready to shoot even in rain. Considering they're half the price of
your precious Leupolds, like I'd said if I ever do have a warranty issue I'll send them to Bushnell and buy another scope to continue the
season. If you have an issue, you'll still be SOL for a couple of weeks at least, I'll be back in 48 hours. At the end of the day, I'll have two scopes to your one as well...lol. Just because you overpaid for your scope doesn't mean everyone needs to be a sucker! :-)

[Johnny G1]

Ya I want something that will stay sighted nicely after putting plenty of rounds down range with my 300. Better leave it at home then, and it won't get hurt??

[RiverOtter]

Whatever floats your boat SSN, it's your money.

Just please do us a favor and don't come on here and b!tch when your Bushy craps out on you in the middle of a hunt....:-D

[Singleshotneeded]

RiverOtter, if I go far from home, like on a moose hunt up north, I always bring both my main moose rifle 30.06 (168 grain Barnes TTSX)...and my .270 that's mainly for deer now, but I have 150 grain Nosler Partitions for it. So, if anything happens to big brother
then little brother can take over, and that's not a bad idea when you're on a hunt far from home. So far the Bushnell 4200s have
been trouble free. I will give you this much, RiverOtter, I've seen Leupolds survive some pretty hard knocks and bangs on friend's
rifles, and if I were hunting mountain sheep/goats and hiking around up there, I'd buy a lightweight stainless/synthetic rifle and put
a Leupold VX3 on it. They're probably the toughest built scopes and the best able to absorb impacts and abuse. So there, I admitted
you have a valid point with your precious Leupys, buddy! :-)

[NickS]

K it's settled. I go balls out wallet crushing quality and get the nightforce nxs. There's a nice 3.5-15x56 on ebay there for 1600 within 100 bucks of all the mark 4's (same power) on there. Now let's start another argument about how military grade scopes suck. And if someones would like to remind of how I can't have that cause it's too heavy, then might as well tell me where I can get a nice puffy plush strap for it. It's a heavy gun! I know! I've hiked with it before. But I like to hit the treadmill once in a while you know, it's good for the heart, maybe lift a few weights. If I'm hiking for days I should get a decent pack correct me if I'm wrong?
Point being: stop telling me what I do or don't need, it's my money, and I'll pack it around if I want to. Now this is getting me no where cause everyone keeps b_tching at eachother. What I asked was for some educated opinions on quality and experience with glass. I've got plenty of that, but save the politics honeslty.

[RiverOtter]

New to hunting, I have a Tikka T3 and an old redfield scope which is doing it no justice. At the top of my list I wanted to buy the Bushnell Elite Tactical 4.5-30x; does anyone have or know of issues with the turrets bumping off what they've been set to during handling? Is it more of a bench and range scope? If that's the case I was thinking the Elite 6500 in the same power. I was looking at a Millet as well the price is great compared to the Bushnell but am I getting close to the same quality? Any input would be welcomed.

Relax bud, you came here looking for guidance, and you got it......

You've already learned to steer clear of Millet and you don't need a 4.5-30x. So the way I see it, even if you end up with a Bushy, you're way better off than where you started........

Baby steps...........:mrgreen:

[RiverOtter]

. I will give you this much, RiverOtter, I've seen Leupolds survive some pretty hard knocks and bangs on friend's
rifles, and if I were hunting mountain sheep/goats and hiking around up there, I'd buy a lightweight stainless/synthetic rifle and put
a Leupold VX3 on it. They're probably the toughest built scopes and the best able to absorb impacts and abuse. So there, I admitted
you have a valid point with your precious Leupys, buddy! :-)

You're learnin'.........:mrgreen:

[NickS]

Didn't say I needed 4.5-30x but if I want one I'll buy one. I wanted opinions on the glass quality. But I've been doing research and getting opinions at shops and other people I know. I'm looking now at vortex pst, leupold mk 4, or nightforce nxs. Take into consideration that this is not just for hunting, I'd like to get out and target shoot. What I've gotten from here is that Leupolds are gunna be a quality buy, for what I want it'll be pricey, and I've heard good things about vortex and vortex warranty.

[NickS]

People also asked me what was wrong with the redfield, well nothin' the eye relief is tricky when its at a safe enough distance from my eye. But it shoots true every time, it's just no fun to shoot with out of 150 yards and it's been loaned to me.

[NickS]

If I bought a scope with hold-over/varmint type redicle or a paralax adjustment how do I know the long range dots will be accurate? Are they based on an average of all grain weights? Will a .223 fly noticeable different than my .300 at longer ranges?

[r106]

Didn't say I needed 4.5-30x but if I want one I'll buy one. I wanted opinions on the glass quality. But I've been doing research and getting opinions at shops and other people I know. I'm looking now at vortex pst, leupold mk 4, or nightforce nxs. Take into consideration that this is not just for hunting, I'd like to get out and target shoot. What I've gotten from here is that Leupolds are gunna be a quality buy, for what I want it'll be pricey, and I've heard good things about vortex and vortex warranty.

IMHO vortex don't belong with Leupold or nightforce. Nightforce is a great long range scope. But your not in Bushnell 6500 price rang with those either. As soon as you break the 12 or 15X zoom range you really need to spend the money on quality glass to make it worth it. You definitely won't go wrong with a Leupold or Nighforce

with that said, My recommendation is, Get a good quality scope like vx3 3.5-10X40 and decent spotting scope. That setup will be good for long range shooting and hunting

Edit: out of curiosity, what do you think all that extra zoom is going to do for you? you can easily see a decent target out to 600+ yards with a regular 3-9X. A lot of guy's in 1000 yard competitions aren't using more than 18X

[NickS]

Cause it's not just for hunting, in my opinion the 3-9x I'm using is no fun to shoot out of 150 yards the black center on the target gets smaller and smaller. I'm not arguing with you and I have no real excuse or experience as to why I want it, I just do. Ya the nightforce and the Mk4 are probably really good glass I just wanna make sure if I'm saving up the extra 5 or 6 hundred bucks that its really worth it. I understand your points though, appreciate the tips.

[r106]

Here is scope review done by a guy on gunnutz give it a read. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=674900

[NickS]

Here is scope review done by a guy on gunnutz give it a read. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=674900

It says I need to log in. I don't have an account on there. Is it small enough to copy and paste to a PM?

[r106]

Open an account. To much to copy. Lots more info there for long range stuff and they have a great buy and sell. But they can't touch HBC for hunting

[NickS]

I just opened an account on optics talk. I think on here though guys have more experience with product durability. As you say it's a hunting forum. I should have maybe said it was gunna be more of a target gun. At some point I'll get a lighter rifle with a lower power scope designated more for hunting. But I can only afford so many things at once.

[r106]

I would high recomend opening an account on canadian gunutz they have a forum specifically for long range precision shooting. quite a few guy's on there shoot F-class and are worth listing to. But at the same time you wont take any advise from guy's here who know what they are talking about

[RiverOtter]

Cause it's not just for hunting, in my opinion the 3-9x I'm using is no fun to shoot out of 150 yards the black center on the target gets smaller and smaller.

Longer distance, bigger target. Fact is, as you gain distance your crosshair is gonna blot out more of the target as well, it's called subtension, and it is what it is. Instead of trying to focus on the "center", try "quartering" the target you are shooting at, works much better.

[NickS]

I would high recomend opening an account on canadian gunutz they have a forum specifically for long range precision shooting. quite a few guy's on there shoot F-class and are worth listing to. But at the same time you wont take any advise from guy's here who know what they are talking about

Never wanted advice on the power of the scope, knew what I "wanted" before I started the thread.

[Johnny G1]

He doesn't want any good advice, maybe I can sell him my Bushnell Banner 4x that I have had on a 303 for 50 yrs. and still works good, can still hit the side of the barn from 10 paces, lol.

[NickS]

So then whats wrong with the 6500 I asked aboutin the first place? I never asked about scope power. I have no issues hitting a soup can from 150 yards. I've been looking at 3x9's 3.5x15's 4.5-14's. That was never my question. I just wanted some opinions on what was gunna be a good quality scope. Yes the scope needs a lower power for hunting I get it.

[r106]

So then whats wrong with the 6500 I asked aboutin the first place? I never asked about scope power. I have no issues hitting a soup can from 150 yards. I've been looking at 3x9's 3.5x15's 4.5-14's. That was never my question. I just wanted some opinions on what was gunna be a good quality scope. Yes the scope needs a lower power for hunting I get it.

No you don't get it. You don't NEED 30X for target either. What people here are simply try to say is don't spend all your money on Zoom. High quality glass will do you better in the long run. The bushnell 6500 is a great scope I have the 2.5-16x40. The bushnell 6500 is in the same price class as the leupold vx3 but nowhere near it in the same class of glass. ( I also have a vx3 3.5-10x40 ). Like I said before I can see objects further with my vx3 at 10X zoom better than with my 6500 at 16X zoom. But there are others to look a. sign up to that link I sent you and you will see

[NickS]

Thanks for all the tips, been helpful. If my friend lets me keep the redfield for a little while, I think I'll save for a Leupold Mk4, or Nightforce NXS.