EK Elk Change

[hunter1947]

Expect changes on this up coming year for cow calf in the EK..

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[boxhitch]

http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/hunting/kootenay-south-trench-antlerless-elk

[grizzlydueck]

Good morning wayne -so i think i can make out what has changed =I read that the senior/youth 10 days =cut to 5 days & leh's cut to 50% for cow elk=that sounds reasonable ! but no mention about the muledeer or whitetail seasons ...

[boxhitch]

http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/hunting/change-mule-deer-seasons-cranbrook-game-management-zone

[Elkaholic]

Well I think its pretty easy to see what will change with them. Look at what people are whining about and you will have it. Any mule deer..... I bet its gonzo ( you know cuz it slaughtered all the deer......), WT wont change a thing IMO, we have soooo many why change it unless its to let us shoot 2 wt and 1 Mule.

[sawmill]

I heard they might change WT to 2 does and a buck.

[Elkaholic]

Well that would be a welcome season to my deep freeze :)

[The Dude]

There are no Mule Deer bucks in 4-3.
I seen it online.

[6616]

I heard they might change WT to 2 does and a buck.

The proposal is to change the aggregate deer bag limit to 3 from the current 2, only one could be a mule deer and only one can be a WTD buck, however you could shoot two WTD does if you wanted. Whether one could shoot three deer depends entirely on having an antlerless WTD season of some kind (LEH or GOS). I'm not sure if this proposal has been accepted or not.
http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/hunting/increase-kootenay-regional-deer-bag-limit-2-3

The reasoning behind the proposal is to increase the harvest of WTD thus having a better chance to control the current WTD poplulation expansion and to reduce some of the spatial habitat related competition with mule deer.

[Elkaholic]

There are no Mule Deer bucks in 4-3.
I seen it online.

I will have to tell that to my trail camera next time I get mule deer bucks on it.


The proposal is to change the aggregate deer bag limit to 3 from the current 2, only one could be a mule deer and only one can be a WTD buck, however you could shoot two WTD does if you wanted. Whether one could shoot three deer depends entirely on having an antlerless WTD season of some kind (LEH or GOS). I'm not sure if this proposal has been accepted or not.
http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/hunting/increase-kootenay-regional-deer-bag-limit-2-3

The reasoning behind the proposal is to increase the harvest of WTD thus having a better chance to control the current WTD poplulation expansion and to reduce some of the spatial habitat related competition with mule deer.

Long overdue!

[Husky7mm]

People should have to make a decision on what they pull the trigger on. Wanting a 3 deer limit it a bit piggish and not very conservitive. If you shoot 2 whitetails, (which you already can) than you should not be able to take a mule deer also. If a 3 deer limit is allowed you will see some hunters with 3 and plenty with 0.

[Elkaholic]

People should have to make a decision on what they pull the trigger on. Wanting a 3 deer limit it a bit piggish and not very conservitive. If you shoot 2 whitetails, (which you already can) than you should not be able to take a mule deer also. If a 3 deer limit is allowed you will see some hunters with 3 and plenty with 0.

Did you even care to read the reasoning behind making 2wtd and 1md limit? There is no shortage of WTD around the east koots.

[Husky7mm]

Very little is spoke of by the local Bios about poor habitat or the WT being over capacity. I have read it all. Does make bucks. Keeping your doe harvest conservitive unsures that there is a decent supply of WT around. The 3 deer limit is un sustainable for the long term and right now the WT are in regress so IMO its irresponsable to ask for MORE. I would be for giving extra WT does to the youth and senoirs if they dont also get to punch mulie tags after harvesting 2 WT does. A free for all is just irresponsable.

[boxhitch]

If a 3 deer limit is allowed you will see some hunters with 3 and plenty with 0. none of which would point to a deer shortage. Hunters go mt now.

[sawmill]

People should have to make a decision on what they pull the trigger on. Wanting a 3 deer limit it a bit piggish and not very conservitive. If you shoot 2 whitetails, (which you already can) than you should not be able to take a mule deer also. If a 3 deer limit is allowed you will see some hunters with 3 and plenty with 0.

Well then they should get out of bed before noon and take a little drive.And 3 deer ain`t piggish,it`s groceries.We have an awfull lot of whities here and I`d as soon take 2 does rather than a buck,I have lots of big racks on the wall and they take forever to tender up in the crock pot.Gimme 2 does and I`ll leave the bucks alone.Having good meat in the freezer sure helps out with the food bill.

[6616]

Very little is spoke of by the local Bios about poor habitat or the WT being over capacity. I have read it all. Does make bucks. Keeping your doe harvest conservitive unsures that there is a decent supply of WT around. The 3 deer limit is un sustainable for the long term and right now the WT are in regress so IMO its irresponsable to ask for MORE. I would be for giving extra WT does to the youth and senoirs if they dont also get to punch mulie tags after harvesting 2 WT does. A free for all is just irresponsable.

The three deer bag limit has no bearing at all on sustainability, it can only be utilized by hunters if/when an antlerless hunt for WTD exists. If a concern arises for WTD, or if the target population density is reached (whatever that is), all they have to do is curtail the WTD antlerless LEH season, the antlerless GOS season, or both,,,, and,,,,, presto -- the three deer bag limit is a moot point.

Besides, I tend to agree with Elkaholic and Sawmill about the population status of WTD in the EK.

[Husky7mm]

Well then they should get out of bed before noon and take a little drive.And 3 deer ain`t piggish,it`s groceries.We have an awfull lot of whities here and I`d as soon take 2 does rather than a buck,I have lots of big racks on the wall and they take forever to tender up in the crock pot.Gimme 2 does and I`ll leave the bucks alone.Having good meat in the freezer sure helps out with the food bill.
Well if others would also I would be surprised! But if thats true than it could be a win, but most hunters are there for the moment and not considering the future. Also your groceries idea is really a little weak, in today's day and age wild game is the most expensive meat around. The whole experience is quite expensive and all those that participate should have a chance not just some game hog who wants 3 deer ASAP .

[Husky7mm]

The three deer bag limit has no bearing at all on sustainability, it can only be utilized by hunters if/when an antlerless hunt for WTD exists. If a concern arises for WTD, or if the target population density is reached (whatever that is), all they have to do is curtail the WTD antlerless LEH season, the antlerless GOS season, or both,,,, and,,,,, presto -- the three deer bag limit is a moot point.

Besides, I tend to agree with Elkaholic and Sawmill about the population status of WTD in the EK.

And what is the target? Fill me in? How many wt are allowed to live here? I am very in tune with the areas I know and it's year round also, how much of what I have shared has in end been untrue, and really think about it?

[Husky7mm]

none of which would point to a deer shortage. Hunters go mt now.

Thanks there Vernon! What you came here and saw some wt does and thought there must be too a surplus? For wt does what you are seeing is the population in its entirety.

[6616]

or if the target population density is reached (whatever that is),


And what is the target? Fill me in? How many wt are allowed to live here?

Why do you think I said "whatever that is"?

[Husky7mm]

Then u need to be consistent and believe that your selling the goods that are needed. We all know that increasing the female harvest reduces the population. The purposal is to allow for more deer to be harvested, are you for this, what is the target? I understand it is mostly pertaining to wt's and mostly does. Peak and valleys, as usual....

[hunter1947]

The way I see it in the past here in the EK is that lots of hunters would save there WT deer tags for bucks and use there other tag for mule deer bucks ,if they bring out the new the 3 tag limit one of the three tags will be for a WT doe in order to get a handle on the buck to doe ratiol ,,the WT does where not being taken to lower the numbers...

[The Dude]

New rules should read: Hunters must kill ONE Whitetail Doe, and ONE whitetail buck, and submit for inspection, whereupon ONE tag will be issued for Mule Deer Buck, free of charge. No other Mule Deer tags will be issued.
But we all know that ain't gonna happen. :D

[6616]

Then u need to be consistent and believe that your selling the goods that are needed. We all know that increasing the female harvest reduces the population. The purposal is to allow for more deer to be harvested, are you for this, what is the target? I understand it is mostly pertaining to wt's and mostly does. Peak and valleys, as usual....

If the objective is to reduce the overall population then females must be harvested, but in sufficient numbers to achieve the objective, a few hundred here and there isn't going to accomplish anything..!.

Increasing the female harvest does not mean the population will be reduced if an insufficient number of females are harvested. The annual recruitment into the female population is at least 10% per year, in most cases much more than 10%. To actually reduce the population the harvest needs to be more than 10% of the females annually,,,, or in other words,,,, in order to reduce the overall population the female harvest must be greater than the female recruitment rate,,, simple arithmatic..!

And furthermore, it's not all about WTD at all, it's mostly a decision to help mulw deer. Didn't we go through all this just a couple months ago.......?

[Fisher-Dude]

C'mon Husky, we already found out that easing restrictions on deer seasons in region 4 will NOT mean all those Surrey Warriors will flood into your favourite hunting spot, which is all you really give 2 shits about.

You know full well that over 80% of the harvest comes from you and all your buddies who sit and bitch about Surrey Warriors shooting "your" deer. It's a tired, old argument you're spewing that has been completely debunked.

It's very revealing when you proclaim yourself a lover of mule deer, full of concern over their population decline, yet you strongly oppose a management strategy to control whitetail numbers to give mule deer a boost.

[Husky7mm]

Well I think that all hunters desirve a decent experience, not juts a handful of killers that want something easy to plunk. From what I see the open doe in oct and the archery season has acheived keeping the whitetails at bay so to speak. So why put it in the ditch only to change it in a year or two. Besides lots of tag soup for people on bucks last year so there will be more does harvested next year with out changing a thing.
Debunked, I question the 80% and how they could even come up with it......... You want to talk about mulies or you want to talk about whitetail, or you just want to throw shit around and hope everyone takes it at face value? Here's a thought, 80% of fack all is still fack all. And FYI not my buddies and my "surrey warriors" come every year, just like you. Your the one spewing old arguments, your view falls on deaf ears and your manotunus drivel cost you your ability to be taken as valuable! I not opposed to the WT management I am opposed to MORE OF IT, especially when 2 WT will not be good enough for the game hogs........

[6616]

The population estimate for WTD in R4 is 72,000. If there are 20 bucks and 40 fawns per 100 does there are thus 9000 bucks, 18,000 fawns and 45,000 does in the spring. About 90% of the adult does are fertile and the average birth rate is about 2.4 fawns per doe, so close to 100,000 fawns are born each spring. Of course about 80,000 of them are destined to become wolf and cougar turds and by the following spring there are about 18,000 surviving fawns. Half of these are buck fawns and half does fawns, or about 9000 new female yearlings are added to the population each year.

So we kill about 1500 does during hunting season, adult doe mortality is about 10% or 4500 does for a total mortality of 6000 does, yet we're adding 9000 new ones each spring, an increase of roughly 3000 over and above mortality. To stabilize the population we should be shooting around 3000 does annually.

In 2012 we shot 4000 bucks and 1500 does, so it's very unlikely that current antlerless harvests are "keeping the whitetails at bay".

[Everett]

Well this morning driving between Kimberley and Wasa we saw at least 500 wt deer and probably over 700 elk saw another 400 to 500 elk while turkey hunting and going for a little drive through some winter range. From what I can see there still lots WTD and Elk around I guess we can all go hunting after all.

[sawmill]

Well if others would also I would be surprised! But if thats true than it could be a win, but most hunters are there for the moment and not considering the future. Also your groceries idea is really a little weak, in today's day and age wild game is the most expensive meat around. The whole experience is quite expensive and all those that participate should have a chance not just some game hog who wants 3 deer ASAP .

First of all,wild meat is by far the cheapest meat,for me at least.I butcher my own as well and I can see assloads of whities within 5 minutes of my house so gas ain`t a factor.
And I hope you are not calling me a game hog.

[Everett]

First of all,wild meat is by far the cheapest meat,for me at least.I butcher my own as well and I can see assloads of whities within 5 minutes of my house so gas ain`t a factor.
And I hope you are not calling me a game hog.

Yup Joe according to guys like husky your a game hog just cause you want to shoot three deer. Which I imagine will take you a sunday afternoon and $10 bucks in gas oh plus the cost of three shells and another afternoon to cut and wrap. Real pricey meat that is counting the cost of the license and tags you should be in for $0.35 per pound. Hell I pay more than that for bad dog food.

[sawmill]

Yeah,last season I took 2 deer and passed on a cow elk because I was too lazy to get it out of the bush that evening.The year before I took a nice fat young cow and hung 2 deer tags on the christmas tree because I had all the meat I needed.I`m such a hog.Really pisses me off when some self rightous steward of the land starts shooting off his mouth and slinging mud.

[6616]

Very little is spoke of by the local Bios about poor habitat or the WT being over capacity. I have read it all. Does make bucks. Keeping your doe harvest conservitive unsures that there is a decent supply of WT around. The 3 deer limit is un sustainable for the long term and right now the WT are in regress so IMO its irresponsable to ask for MORE. I would be for giving extra WT does to the youth and senoirs if they dont also get to punch mulie tags after harvesting 2 WT does. A free for all is just irresponsable.

I can assure you there's lots of concern in the F&W office about habitat and carrying capacity. Who's to say three tags is unsustainable,,, you, and you alone,,,? I know the bios don't think that, after all they put the proposal forward, do you really think they did it without thought? As I said the third tag only will apply if there's an antlerless hunt available which they can stop or adjust anytime they want to,,, how is that "irresponsible",,,, how is that "a free for all"...? If you didn't exaggerate so much you might have a little more credibility on here...!

[hunter1947]

I can assure you there's lots of concern in the F&W office about habitat and carrying capacity. Who's to say three tags is unsustainable,,, you, and you alone,,,? I know the bios don't think that, after all they put the proposal forward, do you really think they did it without thought? As I said the third tag only will apply if there's an antlerless hunt available which they can stop or adjust anytime they want to,,, how is that "irresponsible",,,, how is that "a free for all"...? If you didn't exaggerate so much you might have a little more credibility on here...!
You are correct Andy if there is a third tag allowed for EK deer bag limit two WT deer one doe one buck ,one mule deer buck the management have a good reason to so ,if the hunter wants to take a doe in this area thats there decision and if they decide to decline on taking a doe thats there choes of the hunter no other ,the doe extra tag if the management decide to impelement it is the byoligest decision they make to reduce the doe raiol in areas that have to maney does to buck raiol ,I agree with there decision..

[Husky7mm]

First of all,wild meat is by far the cheapest meat,for me at least.I butcher my own as well and I can see assloads of whities within 5 minutes of my house so gas ain`t a factor.
And I hope you are not calling me a game hog.
No I dont mean you, it sound like your in it of the meat and thats about it. Theres allot of people that cant help but shoot what ever they come accross and in the end they just have a bunch of freezer burnt meat, and history repeats itself again and again. Hunting for most is not about getting cheap meat.... even if it works that way for you.

[Husky7mm]

Yeah,last season I took 2 deer and passed on a cow elk because I was too lazy to get it out of the bush that evening.The year before I took a nice fat young cow and hung 2 deer tags on the christmas tree because I had all the meat I needed.I`m such a hog.Really pisses me off when some self rightous steward of the land starts shooting off his mouth and slinging mud.
Relax Joe the game hogs I speak of would have punch everytag they could even if they had no freezer or money to butcher it, all the while asking for more.....

[Husky7mm]

I can assure you there's lots of concern in the F&W office about habitat and carrying capacity. Who's to say three tags is unsustainable,,, you, and you alone,,,? I know the bios don't think that, after all they put the proposal forward, do you really think they did it without thought? As I said the third tag only will apply if there's an antlerless hunt available which they can stop or adjust anytime they want to,,, how is that "irresponsible",,,, how is that "a free for all"...? If you didn't exaggerate so much you might have a little more credibility on here...!
These proposals are not just dreamed up by the Bio's they are proposed to them..... much of it comes from folks on here. Anyways for WT I dont think they care if they have feast or famine every few years because there is no concervation concern for them. Your all allowed to shoot 2 wt right now! Why does there need to be a 3 deer limit, I will tell you why cause it not enough for the guys that already shot 2 wt's they still want to have a crack at any mulie buck and any elk and a spike moose, etc... Limits make it sustainable for the long term.
As for my exaggerations and credibility...... YOU WISH! I speak for those that dont want to put up with the HBC bullies, police and short term thinkers.
Now for the most part you seem like a great guy, but pick your battles, and dont make assumptions about me, Im alot different than most people think!
Now like a lot of these "opportunity" proposals this may happen but mark my words it will be reverted back in short order, just like the rest. Peaks and valleys

[Husky7mm]

Well this morning driving between Kimberley and Wasa we saw at least 500 wt deer and probably over 700 elk saw another 400 to 500 elk while turkey hunting and going for a little drive through some winter range. From what I can see there still lots WTD and Elk around I guess we can all go hunting after all.

Always looks like that this time of year...... You just saw half that areas inventory....... they will be dispersing shortly....... Of coarse we can all go hunting we should just be a bit conservative about things.

[6616]

These proposals are not just dreamed up by the Bio's they are proposed to them..... much of it comes from folks on here. Anyways for WT I dont think they care if they have feast or famine every few years because there is no concervation concern for them. Your all allowed to shoot 2 wt right now! Why does there need to be a 3 deer limit, I will tell you why cause it not enough for the guys that already shot 2 wt's they still want to have a crack at any mulie buck and any elk and a spike moose, etc... Limits make it sustainable for the long term.
As for my exaggerations and credibility...... YOU WISH! I speak for those that dont want to put up with the HBC bullies, police and short term thinkers.
Now for the most part you seem like a great guy, but pick your battles, and dont make assumptions about me, Im alot different than most people think!
Now like a lot of these "opportunity" proposals this may happen but mark my words it will be reverted back in short order, just like the rest. Peaks and valleys

Why would there ever be a need to revert back. All management has to do is curtail the antlerless season and the extra third tag is unuseable. You seem to be missing the point that the extra tag depends entirely on there being an antlerless season. It can never result in an overharvest if antlerless season are adjusted correctly.

[Husky7mm]

Yeah well, give whatever "opportunities" to the kids and the senoirs then or better yet, the 10-15 yr olds as their own tag. (supervised of coarse) Or a 2 doe limit or buck doe like it is now, then when you get your 2 deer, whatever they are your done for the year. You have every tom and dick running around with there eye's glazed over and 3 deer tags burning a hole in their pocket thats gonna put a lot of pressure on the whole bush, what doesnt die is gonna go nocturnal and then nobodys having a quaility experience. Without regard and tags to spare someone gonna get shot..... haha funny, funny but a very good possibility....

[bridger]

I would be very surprised if the woods are filled with guys looking to shoot everything in site. as far as the season changes go it seems the regional bios have thought this out and are using experience instead of emotion or politics making their decisions. works for me.

[Fisher-Dude]

As soon as the words "quality experience" show up in a discussion about conservation, we can be certain that conservation is the furthest thing from the poster's mind.

[6616]

Yeah well, give whatever "opportunities" to the kids and the senoirs then or better yet, the 10-15 yr olds as their own tag. (supervised of coarse) Or a 2 doe limit or buck doe like it is now, then when you get your 2 deer, whatever they are your done for the year. You have every tom and dick running around with there eye's glazed over and 3 deer tags burning a hole in their pocket thats gonna put a lot of pressure on the whole bush, what doesnt die is gonna go nocturnal and then nobodys having a quaility experience. Without regard and tags to spare someone gonna get shot..... haha funny, funny but a very good possibility....

Now you're going overboard Husky, every Tom, Dick, and Harry running around with glazed eyes,,,,, and some one's gonna get shot...?????,,,,,,,,, all over a puny little 80 pound white tailed doe,,,,,,,,gimme a break...!

[Husky7mm]

As soon as the words "quality experience" show up in a discussion about conservation, we can be certain that conservation is the furthest thing from the poster's mind.
You know what they say about assume........ Sorry I guess your right about easy liberal season where everything fair game, it works so well, they never get canceled, or closed or revert back....... peaks and valleys are the norm! And its because there are people like you and people like me and we dont see eye to eye. ( somewhere in the middle is likely where it needs to be) So repeat your lines all you want but wanting more, more, more is not what "conservation" needs either!

[Weatherby Fan]

Now you're going overboard Husky, every Tom, Dick, and Harry running around with glazed eyes,,,,, and some one's gonna get shot...?????,,,,,,,,, all over a puny little 80 pound white tailed doe,,,,,,,,gimme a break...!

6616
He's been into the sauce this morning I'm thinking !
On another note Thank you very much for all the very informative and accurate posts you provide and not to mention the seemingly endless supply of patience.
WF

[Husky7mm]

Now you're going overboard Husky, every Tom, Dick, and Harry running around with glazed eyes,,,,, and some one's gonna get shot...?????,,,,,,,,, all over a puny little 80 pound white tailed doe,,,,,,,,gimme a break...!

Haha maby so, but I see guys running around with the "crazy eye" everyyear. The last 2 I came across shot a spike during cow season, 10 seconds after we drove off...... also found a dead cow in the spike season. It a big bad world you know. Dont go out wereing your unicorn hat. LOL

[6616]

6616
He's been into the sauce this morning I'm thinking !
On another note Thank you very much for all the very informative and accurate posts you provide and not to mention the seemingly endless supply of patience.
WF

Thanks WF. The reason I have patience with guys like Husky is because he does appear to genuinely care about the future of wildlife and that's a positive beginning.

[Husky7mm]

Now you're going overboard Husky, every Tom, Dick, and Harry running around with glazed eyes,,,,, and some one's gonna get shot...?????,,,,,,,,, all over a puny little 80 pound white tailed doe,,,,,,,,gimme a break...!
Oh I forgot, its not a puny little doe, it a BIG doe, all the flat top shooters shoot big( dry) does..... :roll:LMAO All the little bucks are sausage bucks too.....
I like to keep the drivel around here multiple sided;-)

[GoatGuy]

Husky, the wt doe harvest for Region 4 was actually less in 2010 (first year antlerless GOS) than 2009 (LEH only).

[hunter1947]

This is how I would hunt my area in the past 2011 ,2012 for the allowable bag limit for deer in region 4 ,as the regs say I was allowed ether two WT deer to fill my quot in region 4 one being a buck the other being a doe WT deer ,or one mule buck or ether a WT doe or a WT buck but only being one WT deer of ether sex.

From what I have seen out in the wild while staying out there for 5 months at a time in the past two years is the the buck to doe ratio is a way out of wack in the area in a few different regions I have hunted and scouted the buck to doe raiol that I have my thoughts on is 100 does to 5 bucks me I would have to areee with the wildlife branch on allowing a 3 deer bag limit in the 2013 ,2014 season ,one being a mule deer buck the other being a WT buck that was allowed in the past.
I do agree with the wild life branch in regions of need to allow a third deer tag of that being a WT deer tag in order to get the buck to doe ratio in to the right number ,this will free up more habitat for the wintering grounds to reduce the number of WT does.

Like I said in my past post on this thread is that many hunters would not shoot a WT doe she or he the hunter would hold off for a WT buck and that is why the WT does are not getting shot in order to reduce there numbers ,I know that I am one of them hunters that held off a WT buck and did not take a WT doe in the 2012 season I just kept passing the does up and holding out for Mr big WT buck.

[Seeadler]

If they (biologists) want more does taken, they either need to have 3 deer limit or have the doe season after the Mule Deer close. Also, there are many people who simply will not take a doe.

[sawmill]

I`m not one of them,I`ll take a doe anytime,good eating.It`s all about the steaks and roasts to me.

[hunter1947]

If they (biologists) want more does taken, they either need to have 3 deer limit or have the doe season after the Mule Deer close. Also, there are many people who simply will not take a doe.


You are right I agree :)..

[hunter1947]

I`m not one of them,I`ll take a doe anytime,good eating.It`s all about the steaks and roasts to me.

Yes Joe you are a meat hunter for sure as long as you get your freezer full of nice game meat you are a happy camper don't matter if its a male animal or a female animal as long as your freezer is full come the end of the hunting season..

[Husky7mm]

Husky, the wt doe harvest for Region 4 was actually less in 2010 (first year antlerless GOS) than 2009 (LEH only).

Thanks I did not know that. What about last year when many couldn't find bucks around and took a doe last minute, especially after all the habitat degradation talk?
Anyways at risk of putting to much time in this I have said my piece for now....
Heres some last thoughts.
We know this area is well hunted. We know WT are very handy to hunt, does especially, We know in area's of easy access the buck to doe ratios for both WT and MD are very low, We know this is related to hunting and not predation as wolves and cougars are not selective, and if anything tend to focus on young of year and doe groups.
With an extra tag whats to stop the WT doe population (buck poducers) sliding down the same slippery slope the buck to doe ratio has gone, ( all hunter caused)
I believe the last few years liberal regs have achieved there goals and it should be left at that.
You want a little buck, shoot a little buck, you want a doe, take a doe, you want a big buck hold out for a big buck or eat tag soup, but with consideration to others and the future dont bite of more than you can chew so to speak......

[bighornbob]

I think the province should split the whitetail deer tags into doe tags and buck tags in certain parts (Region 4 and 8) of the province. A buck tag is only available when one produces a cancelled doe tag.

BHB

[sawmill]

Yes Joe you are a meat hunter for sure as long as you get your freezer full of nice game meat you are a happy camper don't matter if its a male animal or a female animal as long as your freezer is full come the end of the hunting season..

Well,after 11 years hunting here I see way less bucks than when I first came here.BUT,the amount of deer are increasing,I see a lot of twins with does.Now either there are some real tired,real sneaky bucks,or,the does are knocking themselves up.I think it`s the latter.I cringe when I see 15 does and one little 2 or 3 point running the show(until he gets shot)

In one day I will see as many as 100+ does and not even a spike buck,yet most does have young with them.I think for your average guy who wants meat the doe is a good choice,spare the little bucks and allow them to grow up some spread the genes.And like you said Wayne,buck/doe ratio looks about 5 to 100 some places here.I have gotten a few nice bucks and I sure ain`t gonna pass a dandy but the doe season takes care of a lot of guys meat needs,plus they are good eating.I passed a lot of smaller guys last fall but took 2 nice does and my Sunday dinners are legend thanks to them.

[bighornbob]

Well,after 11 years hunting here I see way less bucks than when I first came here.BUT,the amount of deer are increasing,I see a lot of twins with does.Now either there are some real tired,real sneaky bucks,or,the does are knocking themselves up.I think it`s the latter.I cringe when I see 15 does and one little 2 or 3 point running the show(until he gets shot)

In one day I will see as many as 100+ does and not even a spike buck,yet most does have young with them.I think for your average guy who wants meat the doe is a good choice,spare the little bucks and allow them to grow up some spread the genes.And like you said Wayne,buck/doe ratio looks about 5 to 100 some places here.I have gotten a few nice bucks and I sure ain`t gonna pass a dandy but the doe season takes care of a lot of guys meat needs,plus they are good eating.I passed a lot of smaller guys last fall but took 2 nice does and my Sunday dinners are legend thanks to them.

The big guys dont get big by hanging out with the does during daylight.

About 10 years ago I went hunting in the bull river area. Every morning and evening driving the main roads was like a game of frogger with the amount of does crossing the roads. You could easily count 50 does in a few km's of road. I was looking at dumping any legal buck as it was a freebie for me as I was hunting sheep. Well after two days of not seeing an antler on a buck, and it being to foggy to glass for rams, I decided to concentrate on the deer. I knew that with that many does there had to be bucks around. I parked the truck and walked about 400m in from the road and proceeded to walk along a older opening that was huge. Not 10 minutes into my walk I jumped 3 bucks and all were mature 4-5 points. They were gone quickly in the fog and I was kicking myself for not glassing even though you could only see 75m with the fog. Another 10 minutes and glassing this time I spied a mature 4 point standing next to a smaller buck. One shot and down he went.

The whole time walking you could hear the trucks driving the main road and you could hear them stopping as they were probably glassing all the does along the road:):)

Moral of the story, get out of the truck and you will find the bucks.

BHB

[eastkoot]

WT doe tenderlion the other night and the wife is not a deer fan, however, there was not a piece of medium rare tenderloin left after supper... Lots of does today 100-150 on Newgate road and suprise, lots of elk too!!!

[sawmill]

WT doe tenderlion the other night and the wife is not a deer fan, however, there was not a piece of medium rare tenderloin left after supper... Lots of does today 100-150 on Newgate road and suprise, lots of elk too!!!

That`s what I`m talking about!Turned a lot of family onto wild game by feeding them a nice doe roast,even got the wife to get her CORE and PAL and her son is getting his.Horns are great and they will have a nice set I`m sure one day, but it don`t compare to either getting a doe or eating tag soup.

[GoatGuy]

Thanks I did not know that. What about last year when many couldn't find bucks around and took a doe last minute, especially after all the habitat degradation talk?
Anyways at risk of putting to much time in this I have said my piece for now....
Heres some last thoughts.
We know this area is well hunted. We know WT are very handy to hunt, does especially, We know in area's of easy access the buck to doe ratios for both WT and MD are very low, We know this is related to hunting and not predation as wolves and cougars are not selective, and if anything tend to focus on young of year and doe groups.
With an extra tag whats to stop the WT doe population (buck poducers) sliding down the same slippery slope the buck to doe ratio has gone, ( all hunter caused)
I believe the last few years liberal regs have achieved there goals and it should be left at that.
You want a little buck, shoot a little buck, you want a doe, take a doe, you want a big buck hold out for a big buck or eat tag soup, but with consideration to others and the future dont bite of more than you can chew so to speak......

Most hunters that want a buck will hold on to their tag until November, which is well after the antlerless season is closed.

Predators are selective and mortality is always higher on the male component (bucks in this case). In an un-hunted population you're typically going to have 60-70 bucks:100 does.

WT are a little different than most as they'll usually respond by increasing twinning rates. You're far better off managing to a younger, more productive population, which results in many more bucks being born every year and more balanced sex ratios.

The liberal regulations for wt only started in 2010 and the harvest was lower than it was in 2009.

You're starting to lose me here.

[Husky7mm]

Ok so what about tha rest of what I said? How long can you see the 3 deer limit lasting? I read what you said about 2009-2010, again what about 2011? When I am out in the bush I spend alot of time looking down at the ground, the most common bones and carcasses I see are of small deer...... plenty have antler bases but they are usally small deer, or young of year.

[aggiehunter]

I wonder how we know (cough here) I mean actually KNOW that the harvest was higher on WT'does in 09 vs the GOS of 2011.....survey says...

[GoatGuy]

Ok so what about tha rest of what I said? How long can you see the 3 deer limit lasting? I read what you said about 2009-2010, again what about 2011? When I am out in the bush I spend alot of time looking down at the ground, the most common bones and carcasses I see are of small deer...... plenty have antler bases but they are usally small deer, or young of year.

Don't have 2011 yet. Be interesting, I was actually surprised about the 2010 numbers being that low, although it was expected in some areas.

Don't know how long it will last. If it becomes unsustainable then you change it. One thing we'll probably both agree on is that regulations need to be reactive.

[GoatGuy]

I wonder how we know (cough here) I mean actually KNOW that the harvest was higher on WT'does in 09 vs the GOS of 2011.....survey says...

Better get the alcan out and put the hat back on.

[Seeadler]

What about last year when many couldn't find bucks around and took a doe last minute...?

How does that work when the buck season lasts a full month after antlerless closes?

[Seeadler]

When I am out in the bush I spend alot of time looking down at the ground, the most common bones and carcasses I see are of small deer...... plenty have antler bases but they are usally small deer, or young of year.

First winter is hard.

[6616]

Ok so what about tha rest of what I said? How long can you see the 3 deer limit lasting? I read what you said about 2009-2010, again what about 2011? When I am out in the bush I spend alot of time looking down at the ground, the most common bones and carcasses I see are of small deer...... plenty have antler bases but they are usally small deer, or young of year.

Once the three deer bag limit is in it will stay. There is no reason to ever remove it since the third tag is only good for a doe. To adjust the antlerless harvest all they have to do is adjust the antlerless seasons, not the bag limit. Without antlerless seasons the bag limit is still only 2.

[Husky7mm]

How does that work when the buck season lasts a full month after antlerless closes?

Archery season, not many people left without some kind of archery gear. And with an extra tag you don't have to hold out for anything.... everyone can wack a doe and it won't affect the rest of your season whatsoever. anyone and everyone

[The Dude]

WT Does in the Kootenays= Fill your fridge.
Blacktails were here first, Mulies (Whitetail/Blacktail Back-Cross) second, Whitetails and Coyotes were kinda dragged here by the railroads and development and farming..
Given a WT Doe GOS, I will use my tag to fill my freezer. That is all. Bang, flop, gut, drag, hang, age, cut, wrap, freeze, eat, beer.

[Seeadler]

WT Does in the Kootenays= Fill your fridge.
Blacktails were here first, Mulies (Whitetail/Blacktail Back-Cross) second, Whitetails and Coyotes were kinda dragged here by the railroads and development and farming..
Given a WT Doe GOS, I will use my tag to fill my freezer. That is all. Bang, flop, gut, drag, hang, age, cut, wrap, freeze, eat, beer.

Both WT Deer and Coyote where present in the Kootenays before the railroad and other development.

[The Dude]

I beg to differ on Coyotes.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/Forum%20Ammo/Coyoterange.jpg

But I'll let the deer experts here debate the historical range of whitetails.

[Hunterguy]

So in 4-3 there is no gos on anterless elk and the leh dates for anterless are not Sept. 20th to the 30th but Oct. 1st to the 10th. Also is there still
an opening for spike bulls in 4-3 Sept. 10th to the 19th?

[Seeadler]

In 1863 Gibbs wrote in "Chinook Jargon or Trade Language of Oregon" that the name for Coyote is called Italpus and in 1866, Lord writes in "The Naturalist" of hearing cayotes (sic) howling in the Cascades. Not too mention the prominant role the coyote plays in the Indian's mythology.

[Husky7mm]

Dude you go far enough back you can get one of those maps where only dinosours ocuppied those areas...... :razz:
Those invasive whitetails.... maby we should exterminate them. Might as well do in the mulies too as their just a cross bred mutation, and don't forget the elk too cause they moved into the mountains from the prairies.:shock:

[Weatherby Fan]

Dude you go far enough back you can get one of those maps where only dinosours ocuppied those areas...... :razz:
Those invasive whitetails.... maby we should exterminate them. Might as well do in the mulies too as their just a cross bred mutation, and don't forget the elk too cause they moved into the mountains from the prairies.:shock:

Well I've read from a very good source on HBC that there are no Mule Deer left in Region 4,the Elk have taken a beating from the out of towners and now the Whitetail Deer are next on the list,after careful consideration we should shut hunting down completely in Region 4.......as this is the only answer left to conservation and to preserve a hunting future for the locals :shock:

[Husky7mm]

Ya bud, and my out of towner friends and relatives.:wink:

Now, now dont put words in my mouth. There are plenty of elk and whitetails. The liberal regs of the last few have achieved there purpose and IMO it should be left as is for the time being....

[Weatherby Fan]

Ya bud, and my out of towner friends and relatives.:wink:

Now, now dont put words in my mouth. There are plenty of elk and whitetails. The liberal regs of the last few have achieved there purpose and IMO it should be left as is for the time being....

Hehe well at least it sounds like there lots of predators left to hunt Province wide :-D

[Husky7mm]

NO all the out of towners shot them all, I cant find a nice sausage coyote for myself anywhere.... LOL
Actually the cougar quota was cancelled, so they really killed a ton of cats, incidentals and harvest combined was just shy of 200 for the EK, and as far as I heard the trappers did ok on the wolves. Although both are responable for a few caribou already, big surprise, but thats just coffee shop talk....
Should be better deer hunting in a few yrs....

[The Dude]

You're those last guys drinking at the campfire.....after the hunters have gone to sleep.
Goodnight, Gentlemen.

[Husky7mm]

You're those last guys drinking at the campfire.....after the hunters have gone to sleep.
Goodnight, Gentlemen.
Ain't it fun though..... i still will beat them to the top of the mountain lol

[Islandeer]

Well I've read from a very good source on HBC that there are no Mule Deer left in Region 4,the Elk have taken a beating from the out of towners and now the Whitetail Deer are next on the list,after careful consideration we should shut hunting down completely in Region 4.......as this is the only answer left to conservation and to preserve a hunting future for the locals :shock:

You and ol not so Husky should get your wimpy hides to the island so you can really start whining. We've go way fewer deer,way more cougers and wolves, a lottery elk hunt that us red necked locals never win,and apparantly now we have grizzlies and whitetails too. oh,we still have lots of hippies too,mostly though from Nelson, they really whine. The cost of living and the ferries,let me tell yah,we got way more whining over here,even if all the EK deer are extinct(which I now believe is true,cause oh so husky said so and he is our EK game lord) :wink:

so yah,time to kick out the fire,drain my last Lucky,shake the pipe and turn off the lantern, this parrttieess over. :confused:

Dude, who cut your hair? :cry:

[Weatherby Fan]

Lmao that was my point as I'm thinking the rumors must be true that there are no animals left in the Cranbrook area..........as Husky said so !
I'm thinking somebody needs to get their eyes checked or out of bed earlier as everytime our family goes up that way we stack em like cord wood in the truck,some years us wimps have to work a little harder to fill our tags But never go home empty handed !

I'll stick to areas 3-4 and 8 you can keep the Island all to yourself:mrgreen:

[Husky7mm]

You and ol not so Husky should get your wimpy hides to the island so you can really start whining. We've go way fewer deer,way more cougers and wolves, a lottery elk hunt that us red necked locals never win,and apparantly now we have grizzlies and whitetails too. oh,we still have lots of hippies too,mostly though from Nelson, they really whine. The cost of living and the ferries,let me tell yah,we got way more whining over here,even if all the EK deer are extinct(which I now believe is true,cause oh so husky said so and he is our EK game lord)

so yah,time to kick out the fire,drain my last Lucky,shake the pipe and turn off the lantern, this parrttieess over.

I partied most of my life away the rest of the time I just wasted:lol:
You have 4-6X the Blacktail as we do mulies here in the EK, sounds like you should cry me a river, or an ocean, an ocean full of salmon and halibut :mrgreen: LOL Now with all the WT and grizzlies you will never have to leave, think of all the money you will save. LOL
You tell your hippies that you hunt for organic meat they will stop whinning. Cheers the parties over when your in the ground!

[Weatherby Fan]

I partied most of my life away the rest of the time I just wasted:lol:
You have 4-6X the Blacktail as we do mulies here in the EK, sounds like you should cry me a river, or an ocean, an ocean full of salmon and halibut :mrgreen: LOL Now with all the WT and grizzlies you will never have to leave, think of all the money you will save. LOL
You tell your hippies that you hunt for organic meat they will stop whinning. Cheers the parties over when your in the ground!

Hehe I like it.........Husky maybe we better drag the Islandeer whiner up for a Mule Deer hunt in area 3 as I passed up several bucks this last fall.......yes these bucks were around Clearwater of course :mrgreen: and if they don't make the book we don't shoot them !
This would ease the pressure on the Cranbrook area and get poor Islandeer away from the hippies for a few days ;-)

[Bobfl]

It's about time they reduced the season to 5 days and less animals.

Now the farmers will whine ,they are loosing money not renting trhere shanty's to hunters due to low numbers. Ya hoo

[Husky7mm]

Well I respect farming and come from a long line of farmers..... They will complain about too many elk and their fields and depredation, and then turn around and let few to nobody on their land to shoot the elk, deep down I think the ek rancher has a soft spot for the elk and do like seeing them around.....

[sawmill]

You guys are really bored are`nt you.

[Islandeer]

Maybe , but our buck ratio to doe is way lower than your personel Husky Nelson buckbrush induced buck ratio. Here we really have to hunt to find our bucks,not like you valley boyz who just drive the HWY's and glass from the road sides. ha ha
I partied most of my life away the rest of the time I just wasted:lol:
You have 4-6X the Blacktail as we do mulies here in the EK, sounds like you should cry me a river, or an ocean, an ocean full of salmon and halibut :mrgreen: LOL Now with all the WT and grizzlies you will never have to leave, think of all the money you will save. LOL
You tell your hippies that you hunt for organic meat they will stop whinning. Cheers the parties over when your in the ground!