Eh! know where to get these shells?

[fowlweather]

so... I have no idea where to get these shells in Canada and I don't really want to risk having to pick them up from the states and bringing them back... i might have to :(

Anyways they are 410 STEEL shells, #6 is the smallest possible and in 3", PERFECT and a little challenge for nightflight decoying wigeon. I would like to pick up a case of these yet I don't know where to find them... any ideas?
http://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/37-ammunition/40-federal-steel/1638-federal-field--range-steel-game--target-load-410-gauge-3-

[lorneparker1]

Theres not much risk in buying in the states. We used to do it all the time. YOu are allowed 5000 rounds. Just declare them and go on your merry way

[Crazy_Farmer]

Get caught on the us side by Americans and you'll be singing a very different tune though. Canadian borders don't care really but exporting it out of the states is a big time no-no for their side.

But people do still do it.

[fowlweather]

I understand the laws and my dad used to do it all the time, the more i think about the picking it up at the warehouse the better it sounds... no cops patrolling the big box stores looking for bc license plates to make sure they didn't buy ammo, and less traffic... WAYYY less traffic. Same penalties but just a little less risk, nobody knows where to get it in canada though? for 30 bucks more I would buy a case from canada with shipping because thats what it would cost anyways.

[heyblast]

Why the hell would you want to shoot ducks with a 410, 3/8's of an ounce in #6 is going to do nothing but cripple birds. It's been clearly explained on this site what will happen to you if you get caught with ammunition in the states without the proper paper work.

[Ian F.]

Brian at Stillwater has ordered shells in for me before. Whomever your favourite local shop is will probably do the same. Your best best is to start now as most are ordered a very long time before the season. Double up with Adam, get caught exporting illegally from the US and you will be very unhappy for the rest of your life!

Ian

[fowlweather]

ya ya ya i understand the rules. I was just hoping one of you guys on here would know if somebody had them

[fowlweather]

Why the hell would you want to shoot ducks with a 410, 3/8's of an ounce in #6 is going to do nothing but cripple birds. It's been clearly explained on this site what will happen to you if you get caught with ammunition in the states without the proper paper work.

you can kill a duck with a single pellet to the neck/head, but anyways I wont be using these for pass shooting, i mean in your face decoying ducks from 5-10 yards

[mattchu_19]

There's a company back east called Le Baron, they carry those shells and the are in Ontario so they we ship to you. They have a website as well.

[fowlweather]

There's a company back east called Le Baron, they carry those shells and the are in Ontario so they we ship to you. They have a website as well.

OH MY GOD!!!! THANK YOU SOO MUCH they are a different brand but are cheaper too!, thank you soooo much

[Discoverer]

Get caught on the us side by Americans and you'll be singing a very different tune though. Canadian borders don't care really but exporting it out of the states is a big time no-no for their side.

But people do still do it.
Totally agree with Crazy_Farmer and to make this matter worse - getting caught exporting the ammo from US will be judged under the same article as smuggling the nuclear weapons :twisted:

[Foxton Gundogs]

Totally agree with Crazy_Farmer and to make this matter worse - getting caught exporting the ammo from US will be judged under the same article as smuggling the nuclear weapons :twisted:

And why risk it? 410 + #6shot + Steel = wounded and lost birds IMO

[heyblast]

Glad someone else see's nothing but cripples using a 410. I understand the challenge of in your face, 5 yard head shot probably okay, but then I've made it clear in the past what I think of shooting ducks that are sitting. It's legal, if you can get them that close, I'll leave there.

[FirePower]

410 and ducks are a bad idea, I have seen the results. We already get far to many cripples escaping with steel, why do you suppose we use #4 and larger steel shot in 12 bores? I would be willing to wagger substantually more lost cripples than game in the bag with a 410 using any steel shot at water fowl.

[fowlweather]

ultimately it's my decision, I get all of your points but these aren't going to be used for 20 yard shots, we're talking close, in your face last/first light wigeon that are too close to shoot with a 12. I have already purchased the shells and I will be pleased to post the results next season. There will be 2 12 gauges as backup as well.

[835]

Why dont you just change the Choke tube in your 12ga to Improved. Or get a 20ga. Or better yet what is stopping you from shooting before they are "In your face"

[Crazy_Farmer]

Why dont you just change the Choke tube in your 12ga to Improved. Or get a 20ga. Or better yet what is stopping you from shooting before they are "In your face"


How bout we all buy 10ga's and shoot em at 60+yards? Your argument doesnt make much sense. Getting them in tight is one of the most satisfying aspects to waterfowling, you've totally fooled em.

I wouldnt hunt ducks with a 410. a 16/20 or maybe a 28ga. But thats his choice, he can miss em more or take a couple. I agree a 20 would most likely be a good choice though. But 20s an upland gun. Save it for pheasants.

Or as my brother says, anything under 12 is a women guage.

[fowlweather]

we'll see, next season.

[FirePower]

ultimately it's my decision, I get all of your points but these aren't going to be used for 20 yard shots, we're talking close, in your face last/first light wigeon that are too close to shoot with a 12. I have already purchased the shells and I will be pleased to post the results next season. There will be 2 12 gauges as backup as well.

I only hope you are sportsman enough to add lost birds to your bag limit.

[835]

How bout we all buy 10ga's and shoot em at 60+yards? Your argument doesnt make much sense. Getting them in tight is one of the most satisfying aspects to waterfowling, you've totally fooled em.

I wouldnt hunt ducks with a 410. a 16/20 or maybe a 28ga. But thats his choice, he can miss em more or take a couple. I agree a 20 would most likely be a good choice though. But 20s an upland gun. Save it for pheasants.

Or as my brother says, anything under 12 is a women guage.


look, I was just trying to suggest a couple other options to using a .410
he is going to use a .410 for ducks, my self if they were so close i thought i might need a .410 i minght try a Improved cyl.

What do you think is a better option? Or do you think it a good idea to use a .410 on Ducks?

[Crazy_Farmer]

look, I was just trying to suggest a couple other options to using a .410
he is going to use a .410 for ducks, my self if they were so close i thought i might need a .410 i minght try a Improved cyl.

What do you think is a better option? Or do you think it a good idea to use a .410 on Ducks?

I wouldnt hunt ducks with a 410. Only a 16/20 or maybe a 28ga.

That was taken from my last post. All I'm saying is its his choice, good or bad. There's a few gentlemens clubs in the states where they have .410 only timber holes. They figure it's more sporting haha.

The other alternative is to cut the barrel down haha. Cut em all.

[835]

Then why doesnt my arguement make sense. It is his Legal choice yes, you are correct. I was trying to suggest, in my eyes a better one

[Crazy_Farmer]

My only disagreement with your post was the not to shot them in your face. To me, thats like saying why shoot the deer at 40 yards, shoot it at 300 instead. Both can be done but one shot will be harder then the other is all.

Shoot a cylinder or skeet and get a real pattern at 15-20 feet.

[field marshal]

Why are you guys wasting your time arguing with a kid who doesn't know his ass from page 8 ????? Cheers---Field Marshal.

[fowlweather]

I have killed plenty of ducks with #6 steel shot, from mallards to teal, wigeon in particular. Why would this be any different? Sure there a lot less pellets but that doesn't mean that the killing power is any different and from a close range it shouldn't be a problem.
The question has been answered, your opinions and precautions will soon be answered next November. No need to be so butthurt over it. And yes, the rare time that we don't retrieve a duck, we always count it in the limit

[lorneparker1]

Using a 410 for waterfowl is dumb and unethical IMO. And this coming from someone who will swat a duck at 5 yards sitting on the ground or water. So that means alot.

[fudge]

I may not say much on here but am on here most days . But as far as a .410 for duck hunting goes I do not agree. As far as buying shells and taking them across the boarder I hope you hunting ethics are better........... I dont hunt like that or live my life like that and think most people on here would agree. YOU give the rest of us a name that we are trying to distance from...

[fowlweather]

Using a 410 for waterfowl is dumb and unethical IMO. And this coming from someone who will swat a duck at 5 yards sitting on the ground or water. So that means alot.
-I love how you didn't point anything negative about using the .410 in your first post, yet you actually agreed that it was okay to bring ammo across the border was fine. Not trying to pick on anybody here, just outlining hypocrisy in your argument. I have to redirect some of this barrage of negative opinions. I believe on a post before I have said that I find it okay to shoot ducks on the water and that I have, but I also believe that everybody else has. I don't prefer it but sometimes you go and sneak on some ducks in a ditch or just need one in the bag and shoot one on the water. My favourite is when they are setting their wings, just before they are back-pedalling. BTW I didn't buy the ammo in the states and never will, I have found the same or better deals here in Canada once I did a little digging. I never have exported any illegal non-exportable products out of the US and never will

I honestly don't understand why all you guys care what I do, sure you have a right, it's a public forum and I can't do anything about it, but if you really wanted to find out my ideas pm me or actually ask of my intentions, as some of you have, to whom I have given prompt informative replies. I asked a question on where to purchase said ammunition, got a lead and ended up doing so. I have every right to go kill ducks with a shotgun with steel shot, and I plan on doing so. Everybody has lost a fair amount of game in their lifetime, and I know its not fun: A) because you don't actually get your animal B) waste of shells and time C) The guilt that comes with doing so. But you should never bash something that you have never tried, or experienced. Yes using a gauge will be more "ethical" as it would be easier, but "ethics" is a personally viewed and judged word. I understand that it would be scientifically harder to hit and kill a duck with a .410 over a 12 and it would be seriously diminished in all aspects (range, pellets, powder, chokes...) But to say that a .410 will not kill a duck... or anything for that matter from a close range would be absurd. After all, you can kill a deer with a .243 and with a .300 Win Mag. But its in the hands of the operator that make it more deadly and equal. Precision over force everytime. If you know the extent of your weapon, then there should not be a problem. And if it doesn't end up working and I end up losing ducks over it (not misses but cripples) then of course I will have learned that it isn't meant to be. But I think there are too many people out there that end up talking smack like they know everything on something they haven't tried or experienced. If you have then be my guest but there are too many people that say "IMO I don't think its ethical..." Keep your mouths shut until the Wigeon return then we can have a post on I told you sos. Till then lets just wait.

Why would I give hunters a bad name? People that hunt deer in their backyards and let them run about in the streets and end up dying in somebody's yard across town gives hunters a bad name. People that hunt before legal hours and pit-lamping give hunters a bad name, not using legal methods in which are within the limitations of MY knowledge of what MY .410 can and can't do. If anybody gives duck hunters a bad name, in my opinion (yes i know.. IMO! oh the hypocrisy!) it would be "skybusters" with their 3 1/2" shells that feel invincible and end having some ducks sail down wounded 2 miles away in a random field. 3 1/2" shells are cool don't get me wrong, but there are some people that don't know their limitations and that ends up happening. Now if you can find me a video in which some people are shooting ducks from close range 5-15 yards with a .410 that they end up shooting cripples in please be my guest.

We give advice by the bucket, but take it by the grain.
-Tom Stoppard


States are like people. They do not question the status quo until some dramatic event overturns the conventional and lax way of thinking.
-Victor Davis Hanson

[fudge]

OK BUDDY...This is why I dont say much on here. Its guys like you that tick me off all lip service, you think you are gods gift to hunters and never miss. Why not incress your odds and lower the chances that you dont run in to the issues that you post your self. Good luck to you and your .410

[fowlweather]

Thanks I will have fun with it. no I am not the "gods gift to hunters" and one of the lesser knowledge on the world of hunting but scientifically it makes sense, you can kill a duck with a .410, the odds are a lot higher especially at closer ranges though. Everybody misses of course, I never said I didn't miss either. If you don't agree with it then go change the law or watch me fail. No need for hate. I could become hostile and outline the obvious grammatical errors in your post and outline how it doesn't make sense but I won't because that's not who I am. It's a public forum and there are people on here that you wont agree with and that wont agree with you. But that's just life, people are different and subject to change. Open your mind to different ideologies and you might be surprised at what you can learn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_BQMMcQBrQ

[fowl language]

as i mentioned to you in a private message,go to your local gun range and see how effecient a 410 is. even the best of shoots are surprized how inefficient they are. i would hope you atleast try it as it,s very eye opening. there is alot of knowledge on this forum and it seems you choose to not listen to them.try and be open minded to what they say or be ready for ridicule. it is my opinion that a 410 isn,t a very efficient way to harvest waterfowl,which leads me to believe that it,s not an ethical way to hunt birds....dale

[fowlweather]

thanks dale, well I can take it out to pattern it so to speak in the next couple days. I obviously don't have any ballistics gel to really compare, but I do have 3 boxes worth and I do intend on using them still.

[FirePower]

as i mentioned to you in a private message,go to your local gun range and see how effecient a 410 is. even the best of shoots are surprized how inefficient they are. i would hope you atleast try it as it,s very eye opening. there is alot of knowledge on this forum and it seems you choose to not listen to them.try and be open minded to what they say or be ready for ridicule. it is my opinion that a 410 isn,t a very efficient way to harvest waterfowl,which leads me to believe that it,s not an ethical way to hunt birds....dale

Well said mate. As I wrote earlier while shooting in the USA, I have seen what a 410 will do in the hands of a very fine shooter using steel shot on waterfowl and the results were disturbingly underwhelming. In my experience, I would whole heartedly agree with you that it is inefficient and therefore not an ethical alteritave.

[Eastbranch]

As somebody who has actually used these shells (and bats 80%+ on the trap range), I can tell you they will fold up big sharptail going away at ranges out to 30y. Killed two on the weekend. I haven't fired them at ducks yet but I see no reason why they wouldn't DRT anything wigeon sized and smaller inside 25y. From my preliminary patterning, they pattern pretty much the same as other 3" 410 loads out to 20y. Much beyond they they start spreading pretty thin (it is only a half ounce). I've only got 2 boxes so I won't be worrying about pattern too much. I know they kill. I got mine from bartell (omineca source) I dunno if he has some stock left or if he just special ordered them for me, but he can (could) get them.

People who say the 410 can't kill either haven't used it much or are poor shots. Anyone who has spent time learning how to shoot shotguns properly knows how capable a 410 is. In short - you MUST shoot FULL chokes if you want to kill. You MUST put the whole pattern on the bird. It's a precision wingshooting calibre. You either hit big or you miss big. If you use anything more open than a tight MOD you'll wound almost everything you shoot at. Gotta concentrate that shot on the target.

[FirePower]

I am assuming you are speaking of lead shot on the sharptails. You also say you have not used the 410cal. on waterfowl yet. Lead and steel are 2 diffrent worlds, ducks we used to shoot sucessfully with #6 lead shot 2 3/4" shels from a 12 bore we now use 3" with 4s, 3s, and even 2s on in steel, it is just the nature of the beast. You further state "you MUST use full choke if you want to kill". If you had experience with lead shot you would relize that full choke is not recomended for use with steel shot and in fact can be detromental to the health of your shotgun. Mod. and more open chokes are what should be used with steel shot. My wife and I own a pair of English made 410 sxs. We use them on a regular basis for upland sucessfully. Ducks especially ducks over decoys as opposed to walk up shooting are a differant thing. Duck plumage seems to be much more dense and difficult to penetrate than upland birds. In addition most shots on upland birds as you say are going away your pellets are penetrating into the lay of the plumage. With decoying ducks, most shots are taken while the target is approching or at very least quarting toward you, this means your pellets are trying to penetrate against the lay of the plumage which has a shingle effect and makes them much harder to obtain effective penetration with light shot.
It appears all the reasoning in the world by some very experienced water fowlers will not disuade someone when their mind is made up to the contrary so sometimes even when someone is tillting at windmills, one must bow to their conviction that the are correct and let them learn from experience.

[fowlweather]

I have killed ducks before with #6 steel with a 12 gauge, i would have prefered to use #2 or 3 because thats my go to load, but thats all they had at the time and we were desperate. We couldn't take those longer shots but they killed the same and we could only use them at a shorter range. These #6 pellets kill ducks, and I have used them enough to know their effective uses and ranges. Although with less pellet count, as long as you are on target at a closer range with enough pellets on target to kill the bird. It shouldn't matter. Its still dead. Yes I would agree that it would seem less "ethical" at a longer range because there would be less of a lethal effective payload at longer ranges but at closer ranges the amount of pellets needed to kill a bird would be sufficient enough to drop them on impact, not cripples. Please lets end this. The first day I use these shells I will post the results, until then the question has been answered, your opinions voiced and considered. Till then thanks


OVER

[f350ps]

so... I have no idea where to get these shells in Canada and I don't really want to risk having to pick them up from the states and bringing them back... i might have to :(

Anyways they are 410 STEEL shells, #6 is the smallest possible and in 3", PERFECT and a little challenge for nightflight decoying wigeon. I would like to pick up a case of these yet I don't know where to find them... any ideas?
http://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/37-ammunition/40-federal-steel/1638-federal-field--range-steel-game--target-load-410-gauge-3-

You start a thread like this then wonder why people jump on ya, some people just don't get it!! I'm gonna resist the urge to comment on your good idea as what I would add has already been said. I would heed the advice! K

[lorneparker1]

-I love how you didn't point anything negative about using the .410 in your first post, yet you actually agreed that it was okay to bring ammo across the border was fine. Not trying to pick on anybody here, just outlining hypocrisy in your argument.



What are you talking about? The 2 comments you are referring to arent related there fore there is ZERO Hypocrisy. You asked where you could get .410 ammo. I told you how. That has nothing to do with being a re tard and shooting ducks with it.

P.S I can kill a deer with a .22 if i shoot him in the temple or in the eye. Doesnt mean i should.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you and how long have you been shooting waterfowl? and I mean not just going out duckhunting twice a year. I mean 45 + day seasons. You talk alot, but dont say much.

[Eastbranch]

No, I said I have used the shells in question. Federal #6 3" steel. They sufficiently deal out death in short order to two and a half pound sharptails so why not wigeon? Wigeon aren't any harder to kill than big grouse. I realize the difference between steel and lead as any good shotgunner does. What I am saying is that anyone who states the 410 is inadequate for small waterfowl at reasonable ranges has rocks in their head. Learn how to use your gun, know its limitations and shoot accordingly. You're not going to be skybusting geese with these shells, that's not what they're designed for.

[Eastbranch]

And for the record, I have shot them out of both fixed mod (25" pipe) and full (28" pipe) choked 410s with no issues...you aren't going to generate enough pressure in a 410 bbl to make er go kablooey unless you pack it with mud and let it dry for a few days haha

[fowlweather]

Thank you again ArcticRed, finally somebody understands what I mean. It is completely legal and I have every right to do. I don't understand why some of you can't wrap your head around it. I don't give a rats ass that you think it's "unethical" and clearly don't understand that this gun is 100% capable putting a immediate kill shot on a wigeon @ 10yds. Come november you will be completely baffled at how it is possible that a .410 and legal hunting methods can give more results than crippled birds. I love to share my harvest with you guys and I love the information and knowledge on here. This thread was about where to find these shells in Canada and I received an answer, I told you my intentions (clearly the wrong idea) and received negative feedback. I considered it and weighed my options, compared the two and didn't really find a reason as to why it is unethical in my eyes or wont work. I have received confirmation from ArcticRed that these shells do work and work at longer ranges too. (I wont shoot at longer range regardless) I don't need any more of this, you are wasting your time from now on. Expect a thread devoted to all the concerned citizens of the HBC public that will involve my review of these shells and how they worked.

It's up to me, you have voiced your opinions and made where you stand clearly