Want Your Opinion on Region 5 being any buck to Nov.20

[JMac]

Wanted to ask you fellow buck hunters how you feel about the deer season in region 5 and having it being any buck to the 20th of November. I'm hearing grumblings that in some of the more visible country of the gang ranch etc a ton of pissers are being bowled over (ie. "the barn" looks like an island deer slaughter LOL). I realize a lot of guys want meat bucks and good success, which I have no problem with, however some of the recent winter range inventory flights being done are not looking as good as in the past for bucks and mature/trophy class bucks. I realize a lot of timbered country and migratory deer probably aren't going being affected as much as the resident deer herds because we haven't had big snows to barnyard the migrators in with the resident deer.
I know a lot of hunters who like it the way it is now where they can head up and treat it like a split season. Bowl over an eater first then once the 20th is over hunt for a toad. I think it's good for young kids and new hunters and meat hunters but should we be concerned for the young bucks that are off to a great start only to be snuffed before their prime?
Just a thought not a p*ssin match!?

[WoodOx]

I agree, but I am a trophy hunter and therefore my opinion is biased. Maybe make apoll? I know there is ALOT of controversy over region 7 deer management, as its being pushed almost entirely away from meat/casual hunters towards trophy only. I think more trophy management should be implemented in BC!

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm all for the opportunity these hunts create. The region is full of deer, overfull in fact, that's why there's a liberal season. If the inventory flights showed an unsustainable population decline, there wouldn't be this season. In the 1980's (we now have just 54% of the hunter numbers that we did in the 80's!) and most of the 1990's there were late November any buck hunts in most regions of the province. We now have similar or even higher deer populations and way fewer hunters. Makes sense to open it up.

I think one reason for the bloodbath in the Gang Ranch area is that the bios are overly protective in some of the other regions, so the hunters concentrate in a smaller area. Open it up more in the other regions too where populations are high (and in most of the province they are very high) so that the pressure and opportunities are spread out more.

[JMac]

Good points guys, keep writing them.

[chinooker]

I don't know much about the situation out west but I live in region 5-2 and we are overrun with deer they need to throw it wide open for a year or two, does any buck whatever even increase the bag limit.:-)

[BlacktailStalker]

You mean this barn lol

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=1809&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=817

Any buck is fine to an extent, keeps hunting opportunity open to all ages and ablity. I dont think the hunting pressure is a concern in the Empire Valley more so than anywhere else during the pre rut, not for the deer anyways. I'm sure no more spikers and deuces get shot there than anywhere else and like most areas, the big ones are still up high and most people dont put in the effort to get them. Does are like cow elk, they wont breed with an inferior animal. Most people dont realize they arent shooting the resident deer at the gang in late november. The majority of the large or point restriction shootable bucks are Chilcotin bucks and deer from the Alexis Creek area and south that winter along the fraser. The residential herd isnt in danger from hunting and to shoot the mature bucks with superior genetics (4 pt +)shouldnt be a concern as their genetics have already been passed on, albeit there is a second rut or the tail end of the primary estrous cycle of the does is still going on and they may still be actively breeding. In my experiences there, as anywhere, there's a handfull of guys who know where to go to get the big ones and do so every year, but a lot of people apply and are awarded doe draws there and a 4 point is just a bonus and many people do leave empty handed. The 4 point and under bucks are left to thrive and return as those that were taken the year before. I think to protect the residential herd to ensure a good buck to doe ratio continues, a point restriction could and should be introduced earlier in the season.
Now for the island on the other hand lol a 2 point restriction as they have done for the Iron River area for the whole Island would be great, except for a small 2 week window of opportunity for youth hunters but thats a whole other story!

[Timbow]

Sounds almost too political. Someone living in the lower mainland giving direction on how the interior should be operated. Sound familiar?

[dana]

I'm dead against the season. The fact is killing a ton of little bucks does NOTHING to control deer numbers. You kill a buck and that is all you are killing. You kill a doe and you are killing generations of deer. I personally think it is a knee jerk reaction and the powers that be have not thought threw the issues. By killing the all the young bucks, you are not allowing deer to get old. You can say that the big bucks don't show up later, but have you ever thought about how a big buck becomes a big buck? He started out as a nice young buck. Now those nice young bucks are getting mowed over in a hail of bullets and the herd quality is already being felt. I predicted that would happen. It's not rocket science. Sometimes the game managers should open their eys and pay attention to other jurisdictions outside BC. Utah is a prime example of a State that used to be tops in producing a lot of big bucks. Now all it produces is dinks. Why? Because they did the exact same thing as we are in Region 5.

[JMac]

Hey Timbow it has nothing to do with "lower mainland guys Vs. interior guys. Fact is up until the the late 90's (97/98) a guy/gal good shoot 2 of any buck up until Nov. 20 and four point season is as it is now Nov.21-30. In 98/99 it went to four point or better for all of November. Now it has returned to a deer (1) in each season Sept. 10 - Nov.20 and Nov 21 - 30. Guess what I'm trying to say is do people like it this way or how it was

[Fisher-Dude]

Dana, do you have any links to studies on deer management that champion the "recruitment theory" like we use for elk herds? I know it has been used successfully for our elk populations, and I read the whole US study a few years back when the 6 point elk seasons were introduced here, but I haven't read anything about recruitment theories for deer. I'm not ready to apply an elk theory to deer, as the populations have way too many different dynamics. Also, we used the recruitment theory to rebuild our elk herd numbers after Mr DiMarche decimated them in the 80s and 90s...it doesn't seem that we need to "rebuild" a decimated deer population these days with the high populations we currently have.

I'm hoping some of your contacts in the US may have some literature on the subject. If so, maybe our game managers could pilot some different techniques in different parts of the province to meet a variety of management goals...manage some areas for "venison" opportunities, some for trophy bucks, etc.

[brno375]

If the deer population needs to be thinned, more does should be taken. Start the 4 point season on Nov 1.

[Robert_G]

They did their counts in Region 5 this spring, and according to the #s, there are more 'dinks' then ever before. And even with the open season bloodbath last year as well as increased doe tags, there are still more does, and big 4 points then in recent history.
All classes are still increasing in #s, even with the blood bath.

Other then that, all you can say is that the region 5 counts are lies. You either believe the #s of you don't.
If you ask the ranchers, you can bet they will tell you of increases.

[willyqbc]

i doubt very much that the number of small bucks being killed would decrease a lot by moving the season back to the beginning of november. There is only one moose draw left by Nov 1st so any out of region moose hunters have allready been through and taken "any buck" if they choose. Also the locals will still kill just as many "any bucks" they will just do it earlier in the year. Most locals will wait until there is a week or two left before 4 point season (hoping to find a biggun) then they will go out and shoot their meat deer close to when the 4 point season opens so they have very little "down time" during the hunting season. That will be the same if the 4pt season starts Nov 1st or Nov 20th. For any that hunt with Rifle only, that leaves 10 days to get their second deer as opposed to 30....a lot more guys finish the season here with only 1 buck where 2 was the norm with a 1 month 4 point season. I don't think the quality of bucks is decreasing here, not if the bucks coming in every year from here are any indication.

Chris

[WoodOx]

Pictures! I really cant argue past the theory of this argument, as I only know of the Chilcotin deer and their migration. what I do know though is that I havent seen any overly large ones.

Anyone able to post a pic of a real hog from region 5? Im excited to see what that region can produce

[Fisher-Dude]

Pictures! I really cant argue past the theory of this argument, as I only know of the Chilcotin deer and their migration. what I do know though is that I havent seen any overly large ones.

Anyone able to post a pic of a real hog from region 5? Im excited to see what that region can produce

I haven't shot any hogs in Region 5, but did get a "nice" 6x4 a few years back, and an okay 4x4 in 2004. The year I got the 6x4, there were two bigger bucks in the same spot that I hunt, one of which had a track close to that of a calf moose. The stride was unbelievable compared to the does it was with. I never caught up to it, but a buddy came close on the last day with his bow, just couldn't get the shot off. He said "35 inches easy". That's a hog in my books!

If you want to see what 5 can produce, look at the BC records book. The entries from the area are impressive, both in size and number.

[mark]

Pictures! I really cant argue past the theory of this argument, as I only know of the Chilcotin deer and their migration. what I do know though is that I havent seen any overly large ones.

Anyone able to post a pic of a real hog from region 5? Im excited to see what that region can produce


http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/501small.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=429&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=501)

Any questions???

[4pointhunter]

i have hunted the gang a times, the first time was in october and it was still only any buck till nov1, not much was shot and we only came home with a small 2pt between 2 of us, after they changed it to nov 20- 4pt and better i have been back twice we go up nov 18, every year i notice more and more deer the second time i got 1 - 4pt and the third i got 2 - 4pts and a buddy got a nice 3pt one each in within the first hour of being there and we were out of there in 3 days here is a pic not huge deer but the one is nice and wide

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=3076&cat=500&ppuser=1599

[JMac]

Yeah I guess I should've directed this post more to certain areas of the Gang specifically. I noticed a huge amount of hits when someone posted something a while back wondering about empire etc. In wide open country, the deer get hit pretty hard when their nuts drop. The timber/bush mulies probably aren't hurt that badly as most guys don't timber hunt or hoof it overly far. Plus the deer have the advantage in timbered/thick country!