LEH applications online this year??

[xcaribooer]

I believe in last years synoposis it mentioned that you would be able to do your LEH applications on line in the "near future" .. Anyone know if this will be available for this spring?

[Gunner]

I believe in last years synoposis it mentioned that you would be able to do your LEH applications on line in the "near future" .. Anyone know if this will be available for this spring?Don't count on it!My understanding is that because of budget restraint it's gone to the back burner. Gunner

[4 point]

Can you imagine the number of screw up entries when & if it goes on line?

[bassplayer]

I heard the same thing about them going online. Maybe it will increase our chances too as not every hunter out there has a credit card lol. I also think that if a card is screwed up that the card should be disqualified. A lot of the delays from the results being posted is a result of LEH contacting hunters to correct mistakes on their entries. I read that in Outdoor Edge magazine as they had an article on it.

[GoatGuy]

LEH and licenses will be online sometime in the future, when we run out of trees for paper, rocks for scribing on and the homeing pidgeon has the brains bred out of it.

[SUAFOYT]

It just ain't gonna happen. The only thing online is the synopsis, just like it has been for years. In the last two years in the department that administers the draw two managers have quit. The place is falling apart. They barely got the grizzly and sheep done in time.

[xcaribooer]

I just liked the idea of a potentially more secure way to apply after having my cards go "missing" from the mail 2 years ago, I courriered them last year and will do the same again this year.

[The Dude]

MOE works on the Internet LEH Draw

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/alec1018/CAVEMAN.gif

Man, when I left Ontari-ari-ari-O in 95, I had an Outdoors Card. BC STILL has paper license booklets, 17 years into the future. I wouldn't hold our collective breath. Look at the highways....this Province is stuck in the 60's. Part of its charm, for me, anyway.

[rcar]

Can you imagine the number of screw up entries when & if it goes on line?

The upside is that for us who can get it right.....hope I haven't just cursed myself... is that the odds just got better:-D

[ufishifish2]

I bought paper cards at WSS the other day so I doubt they are ready yet!!!

[The Dude]

I think an online system would have LESS screw-ups. (Besides being more paperless, which is cool).
You enter your hunter #, and your PIN. So all your address data, etc is there automatically.
You enter the First Choice and Second Choice draw numbers.
You hit SUBMIT.
The Pop up window says : You have chosen draw #### for First Choice, Grizzly Bear in Faraway Place, September 1- October 15th. 2014. Is this Correct? Yes/No
You have chosen draw #### for Second Choice, Grizzly Bear in Walton Mountain, September 1- October 15th 2014. Is this Correct? Yes/No

Same procedure for all species. You have a Visa card on file, your Shopping cart at the end says: THIS is what you're buying, THIS is how much, Johnny NunChucks from Sealskin, BC. SUBMIT Application and PAY?
Done.
There'd be a lot less screw ups than there is now. It would be like having an LEH Tutor.
PLUS: Any changes from MOE could be implemented almost instantly. Online.

[J_T]

Contrary to what some of you are saying, I do know there is lots of money to build the online registry for hunting licences and LEH. There are a lot of factors impacting the initiative from going forward.
- the last government reorg is still having an impact for some people unsure of what they do
- a lack of a real sponsor
- lack of a reason (if what you have works and no one is complaining.....)
- no clear understanding of the economic benefits
- what are the business drivers
- no real business requirements documentation
BC has recently adopted a new process for IT projects. And it isn't short and it isn't cost effective
- some years ago BC made a decision to buy a piece of software they hoped to build licensing systems on. Large investment and some would say it doesn't work that well
- concern over how thaw angling licences was rolled out is a factor.
- hunting licences system development is complex and some (decision makers) will question overall cost


I've heard recently there is some discussion of it. But I'm not holding my breath.

[GoatGuy]

Contrary to what some of you are saying, I do know there is lots of money to build the online registry for hunting licences and LEH. There are a lot of factors impacting the initiative from going forward.
- the last government reorg is still having an impact for some people unsure of what they do
- a lack of a real sponsor
- lack of a reason (if what you have works and no one is complaining.....)
- no clear understanding of the economic benefits
- what are the business drivers
- no real business requirements documentation
BC has recently adopted a new process for IT projects. And it isn't short and it isn't cost effective
- some years ago BC made a decision to buy a piece of software they hoped to build licensing systems on. Large investment and some would say it doesn't work that well
- concern over how thaw angling licences was rolled out is a factor.
- hunting licences system development is complex and some (decision makers) will question overall cost


I've heard recently there is some discussion of it. But I'm not holding my breath.

That's pretty close.

It's always funny when I hear government talk about 'the business case', especially the business case guy. I must have missed the business case to dump a pile of $ into an online consultation website, the cluster with BCStats, the decision to axe comp staff positions to make Hydro more efficient eventhough comp staff wages came out of the trust or a couple hundred other things off the top of my head. To be very honest that's a bs excuse - have a hard time running a grow-op, be spending all the money on pretty lights and shiny objects. There are a pile of license options for both residents and outfitters that would save both staff time and generate more revenue. Plus we could reduce staffing and contractors which input data manually. Plus data extraction could be exponentially easier, although the common platform big G adopted is a piece of junk.

Bottom line with this issue and the other handful is we don't have the resources to run the Fish and Wildlife Branch. The money tree is in everybody's MLA office, go shake it.

[dana]

My question would be, why? If there is a money tree to be shook when it comes to Fish and Wildlife in this province, why shake it for something like this? Isn't there more better things that require our attention? Sure it would be nice and hip and cool to be online. But really how hard is it to keep filling out cards like we have been doing since the dawn of time? Is it really that hard? Does this help wildlife in our province or does it just help a bunch of whinner hunters that don't have patience?

[Fisher-Dude]

^^^ Can't argue with any of that.

Lemme see, money for habitat and inventory, or money for clicking the submit button. There's very little to go around.

[GoatGuy]

My question would be, why? If there is a money tree to be shook when it comes to Fish and Wildlife in this province, why shake it for something like this? Isn't there more better things that require our attention? Sure it would be nice and hip and cool to be online. But really how hard is it to keep filling out cards like we have been doing since the dawn of time? Is it really that hard? Does this help wildlife in our province or does it just help a bunch of whinner hunters that don't have patience?

You're correct.

Shake the money tree for money, so we can hire staff and do inventory work.

Online is nice to have, not have to have. If all the license revenue was driven back into the branch and we had a budget of 10-15M for wildlife we could look at it. But with $3-5M, we can't.

[Iltasyuko]

...On the other hand, spend the money upfront to automate and free up data entry staff / contractor dollars in each year going forward that could be directed at resource / wildlife management.

[GoatGuy]

...On the other hand, spend the money upfront to automate and free up data entry staff / contractor dollars in each year going forward that could be directed at resource / wildlife management.

There's no money for anything other than staff right now. We managed to shake a few dollars free for inventory, but it isn't nearly enough to get the system up and running.

The politicians have to want it so that the money is directed within FNRO.

[Iltasyuko]

There's no money for anything other than staff right now. We managed to shake a few dollars free for inventory, but it isn't nearly enough to get the system up and running.

The politicians have to want it so that the money is directed within FNRO.


I guess I should have qualified my post - if/when there ever is money to automate there will always be arguments to maintain the status qou and spend the money directly on management efforts, however, if a quality automated system was put in place there is potential to free up resources in subsequent years - that of course is contingent on the gov putting a system in place that is quality and doesnt require significant maintenance costs year after year.

[Brez]

I know it's a crazy idea, but why not contract it to the same outfit that does the Alberta draws? No re-inventing the wheel that way? I find their system quick and simple enough.

[scott h]

I know it's a crazy idea, but why not contract it to the same outfit that does the Alberta draws? No re-inventing the wheel that way? I find their system quick and simple enough.
That would work and be very cost effective but....... could you imagine the outcry from the gov. workers being let go because their jobs have been outsourced and that money was being redirected to real conservation projects.

[SUAFOYT]

I know it's a crazy idea, but why not contract it to the same outfit that does the Alberta draws? No re-inventing the wheel that way? I find their system quick and simple enough.

Simple solution to complex problem. The Alberta system is built for their draw. To simply "contract" BC's out to them is not as simple as you think. An entire program would have to be created to fit the parameters of the BC draw. So in essence you would have to start from scratch just like they would if they were to do it in BC. No advantage. Ever tried to get a written computer program to conform to one you would like to see without it being written and making the other one work? Not possible.

[GoatGuy]

I know it's a crazy idea, but why not contract it to the same outfit that does the Alberta draws? No re-inventing the wheel that way? I find their system quick and simple enough.

Big Government has decided it wants only one platform. Probably works better for the important things, ie health-care, education, but it definitely does not for what we do.

[J_T]

My question would be, why? If there is a money tree to be shook when it comes to Fish and Wildlife in this province, why shake it for something like this? Isn't there more better things that require our attention? Sure it would be nice and hip and cool to be online. But really how hard is it to keep filling out cards like we have been doing since the dawn of time? Is it really that hard? Does this help wildlife in our province or does it just help a bunch of whinner hunters that don't have patience?This isn't a money tree for F & W. It's a money tree for IT projects.

[J_T]

That's pretty close.

It's always funny when I hear government talk about 'the business case', especially the business case guy. I must have missed the business case to dump a pile of $ into an online consultation website, the cluster with BCStats, the decision to axe comp staff positions to make Hydro more efficient eventhough comp staff wages came out of the trust or a couple hundred other things off the top of my head. To be very honest that's a bs excuse - have a hard time running a grow-op, be spending all the money on pretty lights and shiny objects. There are a pile of license options for both residents and outfitters that would save both staff time and generate more revenue. Plus we could reduce staffing and contractors which input data manually. Plus data extraction could be exponentially easier, although the common platform big G adopted is a piece of junk.

Bottom line with this issue and the other handful is we don't have the resources to run the Fish and Wildlife Branch. The money tree is in everybody's MLA office, go shake it. This is very true. The eLicencing platform they purchased put them into a corner. Committed to use it, but it won't provide the product they want.
As we move toward a science based management process I wonder why there isn't much airtime for the amazing downstream benefits. Data extraction is a big part of the BC (business case)

[J_T]

I know it's a crazy idea, but why not contract it to the same outfit that does the Alberta draws? No re-inventing the wheel that way? I find their system quick and simple enough.
You know that's where "Posse" (Alberta platform) comes from. Alberta and its the platform BC had hoped to use, but it has no GIS capabilities, it is not a flexible configuration and thus required data extraction is problematic and limited. It has other innate issues that can not be solved. Nope, let's stay away from the Alberta platform. There are other platforms here in BC that are exceptional and made in BC products that are being used in many other jurisdictions successfully.