BOW BUYING: for new archers.

[Ambush]

It's that time of year when everyone wants to get out and do something. And for many that means getting ready for the up-coming hunting season, which hopefully translates to some new gear.
And there will be the usual ".. what bow should I buy" threads.

After the OP's question, the next several replies will be "...shoot as many as you can", "get one that fits", "buy what I have, it's awesome" and the ineveitable "buy what's right for you".
All good advice, in general. But how does a newbie get to that point, especialy if the shops he might try have a limited knowledge of archery gear to start with. Case in point. I was at the archery counter, of a hunting shop, this spring, while a young [to me] was inquiring about bows. He was a tall robust fellow. The salesman suggested a 28" draw length [DL] and 60# draw weight [DW]. I politely suggested that this man was at least 29" DL, more likely 30" and would be better served with a 70# bow. The salesman just laughed it off, as if I was plainly stupid, and I went about my business. Turns out that nearly every bow on the rack was 28" DL and 60# DW. Sell what you got, I guess.

I'm going to only discuss modern compound bows that will be used for hunting. Target shooting has some basic differences and that is a subject better addressed by some of the other shooters here.

First let's discuss what you need for a first bow. If you want to try archery, there is no better way to make sure you WON'T like it than to handi-cap yourself with an ill fitting, poorly put together assembly. How to avoid that.

My first piece of advice for the in-experienced, is to buy a new, middle of the road bow. If you like archery, you can shoot that bow for years. If you buy the cheapest set up you can find, and decide to pursue the challenge, then you'll have to unload that cheapy, at a loss, and then buy again. If you buy top of the line, you may end up with well over a grand gathering dust, because archery really wasn't the blast you thought it would be.

Next would be adjustability. Many bows are draw length specific, meaning you will need to purchase a cam or module to change the draw length and in most cases need access to a bow press. Many bows will advertise "26" - 30" DL, but that doesn't mean you don't need new components to do it. Ask to be sure. Fortunately, there are quite a few bows out there that can be adjusted with just an allen wrench, in a few minutes. Some need a press and many not. Look for a bow that has this feature. Shooting a bow that is too short is bad, shooting a bow that is too long is a recipe for disaster! And to make it more complicated , your draw length may well change as you progress and "find your form". The bonus to a bow that is easily adjusted for DL, is it makes it much more sellable because it will fit virtually anybody.

Next up is draw weight. This will create some controversy, but this is my opinion based on my own hunting experience and that of my bow hunting friends.
Most stores will try to sell you a 60# bow. 60# is the new 70#, they will tell you. And they stock 60# because it has a much wider sell option. A big guy can shoot 60#, but a smaller guy can't pull 70#, hence the business sense to stocking and pushing 60# bows. If you can easily handle a 70# bow, then there is no reason not to buy one and many reasons why you should.
It is literaly free horsepower. Flatter trajectory which tranlates to less margin of range error, and more kenetic energy which allows for more broadhead choices. More energy also means more pass throughs, faster bleeding and better blood trails. Heavier DW allows the use of heavier arrows, which is the paramount consideration for penetration, assuming your bow is tuned and shooting sharp broadheads.
Remember, you can turn a 70# bow down to 60#, but you can't turn a 60# bow up to 70#. Never "over bow" yourself, but also there is no value in "under bowing" youself either. It's important to remember that if you are new, you won't be able to pull your potential DW right away. But with twenty arrows a day, in two weeks you'll gain several pounds with like nothing. You have to wake up those bow muscles.

Axle to axle length and brace height.
In years past a longer bow was called "more forgiving" and add in higher brace height and you had a good shooter. That has changed considerably. It's rare to see a hunting bow more than 34" axle to axle, these days, and they shoot good, so don't get too concerned about that. Just avoid the extremes. Low brace heights still demand very good form and control, so it may be wise to stick with something between 6" - 7".

Buying a "Read to shoot" package, or commonly abreviated to "RTS".
These packages will give you the ability to just take it out of the box and start flinging arrows. But a few things to remember. The accessories, like sights, peep, rest and stabilizer, will be bottom of the line, which if you carry on, will almost certainly need to be up-graded. More money.
Also "RTS" means that everything is there, not that everthing is tuned and ready for optimal performance. And many times it is quite the opposite. if you buy a RTS package froma shop, have it gone over by the shop, while you are there. Check, nuts and bolts, cam alignment and basic set up. Get the proper arrows while you have the bow out and in your hands. Don't under spine or under weight your shafts.

Speed bows and draw cycle. The trend is definitely toward speed these days and that's not all bad, but it comes at a cost. And that cost is usually a smooth draw cycle. To get speed you need some very aggresive cams, usualy coupled with a short brace height. If you look at the draw cycle graph of a speed bow, you'll see a sharp peak and a fast drop to the let-off, at the wall. A more rounded, less severe curve indicates a smoother draw and perhaps more shootable to many people. I do find it amusing to see a salesman go on about the speed of a bow, like speed is everthing and then recommend that bow in 60# to a shooter that can easily shoot 70#. Remember the "free horespower" from above.
For the new shooter, avoid extremes in all areas.

So to sum up, if you came to me to get set up for your first bow, what would it look like.

Middle of the road in price.

Draw length adjustable without buying cams or modules.

30" to 34" axle to axle.

6" to 7" brace height.

Smooth drawing over speed.

A draw weight that you can shoot comfortably.

I would suggest going with the RTS, simply because they add little cost to the set up. Rather than adding on middle of the road components and later up-grading them, just use what it comes with and then go right to quality, long lasting accessories.

Some archers will no doubt dissagree with parts of what I'm advising, and that's fine. This is only my opinion from my experience.

Happy shoppng, shooting and better hunting!

[BCHoyt]

Great write up man... Will help out a lot of new archers!

[todbartell]

Good info Rod, I'm buying my first bow this spring

[ThinAir]

Very good. I completely agree with buying a 70lb bow... I can't understand why so many guys seem to think "70lb" is a swear word!:)
You can always turn it down

[Bow Walker]

Ambush - that's time very well spent at your keyboard. Great practical advice to any who are new to shooting compound bows. Thanks for putting things in perspective.

The only thing that I might caution new shooters on is the Draw Weight of their new (to them) bow.

My advice would be not to jump right in at the "deep end" of the draw weight range. A 70lb bow may be easier to pull on today's bows (as compared to 5 years ago) but it is still a significant amount of resistance to overcome just to get to the "let-off" area of the draw cycle. Besides - as has been mentioned many times, a 60lb bow will send an arrow right through anything that walks on the North American Continent.

So for the new shooter who wants a bow that will "do it all" and yet not cost the earth, I heartily agree with your advice about the "Ready To Shoot" packages that so many of the bow manufacturers are offering. Those "cheap" components that you mentioned are usually form the lower/middle range of the available offerings, not the bottom of the barrel. They will certainly do the job for the shooter - and do it well for a number of years.

As the shooter gains experience and knowledge through actually shooting (whether it be 3D or hunting) he or she can then upgrade either the components of the RTS bow, or the whole bow itself. RTS bow packages are always in demand because of their price point and their re-sale value. Getting a 60lb RTS package to use for a few years, while gaining shooting experience, is probably the best thing a new archer could do to learn proper shooting form and to practice that form.

I strongly recommend new shooters attending as many 3D shoots as possible - it is one of the best ways to practice and offers many different shooting challenges that will keep the "new shooter" interested and looking forward to practice sessions.

[Ambush]

I'd like to add one more thing about buying a bow that " feels good to you".

If I were to give you, as a new archer, a bow to shoot for a month and you shot thirty arrows through it most days, you'd get very accostumed to it.
Then I handed you a bow that someone else swears is the nicest shooting bow they've ever handled. You'd pull it back and say "wow, that feels weird!".

I'm convinced that nearly anyone can get used to nearly any average bow and shoot it well. If you throw out the extremes, whatever bow you buy and shoot regularly will become natural, to you, and you will have no trouble using it affectively. And if you are new to the sport, how are you to have the experience to say 'aaw, this is a nice bow."
Buy mainstream and you and your new partner will be getting along just fine, in no time.

[Ambush]

Besides - as has been mentioned many times, a 60lb bow will send an arrow right through anything that walks on the North American Continent.

Yes, I have heard that statement many times, and just can't buy it.
If 60# is what you have to work with, then you mitigate to that end. And for deer and bears at reasonable ranges, it is plenty adequate.
But if you want to pursue moose, elk or hunt the mountains where shots can be long, in high winds, then the extra energy can be invaluable.

And there really is no valid reason to under bow yourself. Bow price is the same, as is sights, rests, arrows and broadheads.

Before I went to South Africa, I watched several hundred archery kill shots and watched them multipule times, on video. Most shots were shown realtime and then shown slower and then shown very slow. What was very interesting was the gear descriptions. Bow brand and draw weight, arrow shaft and weight and broadhead.
I can say, without a doubt, that the 70# bows out penetrated the 60# bows. Most 70# bows shooting the heavier arrows this allows, had pass throughs with the arrows laying on the ground. Not so with the 60# bows. Often the arrows stopped on the off side. There is no such thing as "more dead" but there is a consideration for "more apt to kill cleanly".

But as stated, this is just my opinion and observations from the field.

[ThinAir]

Yes, I have heard that statement many times, and just can't buy it.
If 60# is what you have to work with, then you mitigate to that end. And for deer and bears at reasonable ranges, it is plenty adequate.
But if you want to pursue moose, elk or hunt the mountains where shots can be long, in high winds, then the extra energy can be invaluable.


And there really is no valid reason to under bow yourself. Bow price is the same, as is sights, rests, arrows and broadheads.

Before I went to South Africa, I watched several hundred archery kill shots and watched them multipule times, on video. Most shots were shown realtime and then shown slower and then shown very slow. What was very interesting was the gear descriptions. Bow brand and draw weight, arrow shaft and weight and broadhead.
I can say, without a doubt, that the 70# bows out penetrated the 60# bows. Most 70# bows shooting the heavier arrows this allows, had pass throughs with the arrows laying on the ground. Not so with the 60# bows. Often the arrows stopped on the off side. There is no such thing as "more dead" but there is a consideration for "more apt to kill cleanly".

But as stated, this is just my opinion and observations from the field.

Excactly... unless were talking youth or women I think 70lb is the only way to go. There are not many grown men that couldn't pull a 70 lb bow backed off to 60lb. I'm a small guy and have no problem pulling over 70lbs in hunting temps/conditions. I sure appreciate the extra horse power now, and if needed I have to option to tone it down a bit...

[jikjak]

wow great read, thanks for that wealth of information. it makes it much easier to narrow down which bows to consider based on their stats.

with that being said and also advised to me by another forum member, it looks like the PSE Dream Season Evo would be a good one to consider.

http://www.pse-archery.com/products/category/Dream+Season+EVO+-+Black/445.5.1.1.17305.1002858.1003244.0.0#.T3DLixEgfyA

[TheProvider]

Theres a difference of pulling 70lbs smoothly back and and pulling 70lbs back. Horrific vids on youtube of guys showing off their new bows and absolutely struggling to pull it back. Kinetic energy is important. Yes that normally means more draw weight. Scenario.. 2 different bows, both 28" shooting the same arrow weight. The first bow has an IBO of 366fps and the bow is set at #64.The second bow has an IB0 rating of 318fps and is set at #70. You think #70 is still better??? Theres also alot of speed freaks out there that are buying the fastest bows and shooting #70 however there trying to shoot the lightest arrow possible. #70 is not always better.

Good thread though

[TheProvider]

I've also had some bad experience in archery shops. Went to one one day just to check out the new bows. I knew my draw length was 28". The staff tried to sell me a bow with a 29" draw length even after I told them I was 28". They said an inch wasnt a big deal :I Also called another shop when I was looking to buy a new release. The guy on the phone told me about the only release they had at their store but insured me it was their #1 seller. Of course it was their number one seller it was their only one they kept in stock. Their are good shops and their are bad shops. Same goes with staff.

[The Silent Stalker]

Ok, I have to chime in. I have only been shooting archery for a year, so I am no expert and I know nothing. I was informed while I was looking that a bow shoots better near it's "top end" So, if you are looking for a draw weight around 60, you will shoot better with a 50-60# cranked up, than a 60-70# bow backed down all the way. Not sure if this is true or helpful. I bought a BEAR Attack, cranked to it's max, 60#, 29" draw and love it. But it's my bow and you can't have it.

[Ruger4]

#70 is not always better, Good thread though

agreed on both points above

[BiG Boar]

My bow is 70# and I have it turned down to 65# ish. Once I get to shooting it more and more this season I may crank it up, but at the moment it is just so twitchy when at 70# I find myself having an easy time pulling it, but let off like a centimeter and it starts pulling, causing me more trouble having to catch the already shooting string.

I wish that I had some advice like the above when I started to get into archery. It seems like the subject is very opinionated and it seems like a lot of sales people don't really know what they are talking about. Plus technology is changing so fast that some people get left behind.

[roymil]

There's getting to be more bows out there that are 55# to 65#s. Perhaps the answer.

[Spy]

I purchased a bow a few months back , from the Hermit @ VantagePoint Outfitters a site sponsor! They carry the full line of Limbsaver bows, I settled with the 2011 Proton, 28" 60lbs 330fps,very smooth & no hassle to pull back! Bill started me from scratch with his own bow took me to a 3D shoot for my introduction & then sold me on the Proton.After the dust settled the bow & set up cost me +- $1000. I am very happy with my purchase & all the time Bill put in to get me started!
It pays to have a knowledgeable shooter show you the ropes before you make a purchase!My advice would be to go on a 3D shoot before you make a purchase. Great Thread !
Spy:-D

[Bow Walker]

Ambush - don't get me wrong here, but........

There are many times when you'll find it pretty darned hard to smoothly draw, hold, and aim a 70lb bow.

Try it in colder weather, hunting - when you only get that one chance to draw, hold, and aim smoothly and quietly - when your muscles are cold and stiff.

Try it in the afternoon portion of a 3D shoot - when you come out after sitting for an hour over lunch, and your muscles have gone cold and stiff.

If penetration is the issue here - go with a heavy (450 or up) grain arrow and learn to shoot it and get used to the parabolic arc involved. Remember the Trad guys who typically shoot a 50lb bow with "logs" for arrows and at much slower speeds - usually less than 275 f.p.s. - and their arrows will be found laying on the ground on the other side of the animal.

[Ambush]

Ambush -Try it in colder weather, hunting - when you only get that one chance to draw, hold, and aim smoothly and quietly - when your muscles are cold and stiff.

Remember the Trad guys who typically shoot a 50lb bow with "logs" for arrows and at much slower speeds - usually less than 275 f.p.s. - and their arrows will be found laying on the ground on the other side of the animal.

You live on the Island and I live in PG. Last November, I sat all day at minus 27. I do know cold.

And the trad guys are limiting their shots to twenty yards. Trad and compound are apples to oranges.

I'm not saying 70# is a must or that it is for everybody, but do you really think that a guy like Brom-Bones would be best suited to a 60# bow?

[Bow Walker]

BTW - I totally agree with Ambush's take on a new archer shooting an unknown/new bow.

I bought my hunting bow over the internet in 2006 - never even had a chance to hold it, feel it, or shoot it before buying it.

Once it hit my doorstep I then held it in my hands. I set it up and started shooting - within a month that bow felt like a part of me. Anyone can get used to and learn to love any brand of bow.

Except that now I have my favorites - and my positive dislikes as well.


I'd like to add one more thing about buying a bow that " feels good to you".

If I were to give you, as a new archer, a bow to shoot for a month and you shot thirty arrows through it most days, you'd get very accostumed to it.
Then I handed you a bow that someone else swears is the nicest shooting bow they've ever handled. You'd pull it back and say "wow, that feels weird!".

I'm convinced that nearly anyone can get used to nearly any average bow and shoot it well. If you throw out the extremes, whatever bow you buy and shoot regularly will become natural, to you, and you will have no trouble using it affectively. And if you are new to the sport, how are you to have the experience to say 'aaw, this is a nice bow."
Buy mainstream and you and your new partner will be getting along just fine, in no time.

[TheProvider]

I also agree on that just like I agree someone shooting the same brand for the past 10yrs thinking they have the smoothest bow still. Every year the technology is changing. Brands that were known 2yrs ago for not being smooth are smooth as silk now.

[Bow Walker]

No, 70lb bows are not for everybody - especially beginners.

I'm not acquainted with Brom Bones so can't comment on that...........but I do know for a fact that older bows (pre 2004-ish) have much harsher draw cycles than do the bows of today's era. My earlier bow (2000-ish) was a 50lb draw weight. I bought a brand new (in 2006) bow and had to decide what poundage I wanted. I went with the 60lb draw weight - based on the feel of my old 50lb bow - and found that I could probably have gone with the 70lb version of the new bow because it was that smooth and easy to draw.

Now, 6 years later, I'm glad I went with the 60lb'er as it is still easy to draw, but it gets harder pretty fast. The eccentrics of cams and idler wheels being what they are - it isn't out of the realm of "possible" to comfortably draw and shoot a 70lb bow for a while - but i still maintain that it will get hard to do with muscles that are either tired or cold.

[Ambush]

Yep, I'm getting old and sometimes cold to. :(

I'm not picking on ya Bow Walker. I think you're a good guy with a lot of knowledge in the archery realm. And just as importantly, you're willing to use your own time to further the sport by sharing what you know with others.

Don't mind me, I often find myself on the offside of convention.

[Bow Walker]

I didn't/don't think you're picking on me - we were/are just having a discussion - aren't we?

That's how knowledge gets passe don and picked up - by discussing the various options.

It's a great thread you got here Ambush............

[StoneChaser]

Great thread...certainly thought provoking!

My current bows all have 60lb limbs, and I've not noticed a lack of horsepower yet (having said that, Ambush has forgotten more of his bow kills than I've made in my archery hunting days, so is certainly in the know!).

I haven't seen any major trajectory difference between similar bows 60 vs 70 lb though, as typically one has to go one spine heavier, and thus increase arrow weight....result is a heavier arrow flying quite close to the same speed as the 60lb counterpart (more KE yes...but not a significantly flatter trajectory).

Another factor that comes into play is broadhead selection. Most of the 70lb guys I know also tend to shoot wide cut mechanicals, where a little extra HP is needed to get good penetration (I'm personally a fan of fixed blade heads, preferably COC type, where penetration is usually not an issue).

While I am certainly not opposed to picking up a 70lb model (actually toying with the idea currently), I see some benefits to 60lb (rotator cuff longevity for one), ease of drawing in the oddest angles, less bow noise, and enough jam to take moose sized critters.

At the end of the day, a guy can get more arrows off in the practice session before fatigue sets in which isn't a bad thing either, but bottom line.... pick a draw weight that you feel comfortable drawing in the worst case scenario, practice hard, put a sharp broadhead in the vitals, and get your knife out!

[DMA1983]

You don't NEED a 70 pound bow. But if you can shoot it easily, its extra power at no cost. This year some companies are even putting out 80 pound bows. A good shot with a 60 pound bow will do the job, and a poor shot with 70# might not. But the extra trajectory, or better penetration, can sometimes help, and can never hurt.

[Bow Walker]

You don't NEED a 70 pound bow. But if you can shoot it easily, its extra power at no cost. This year some companies are even putting out 80 pound bows.......
I'm not surprised that 80lb bows are entering the mainstream market. Today's engineering and design has allowed for higher and higher poundage to be pulled just as easily (or easier) as bows with much less poundage were being pulled not so many years ago.

As I commented - my '92 Martin Phantom with "Magnum" limbs was maxed out at 52lbs. It was a single cam bow that had a fairly small (by today's standards) cam and idler wheel. That bow had a pretty harsh draw cycle and a short valley coupled with a hard wall.

My next purchase was a brand new (end of season price reduction) 2006 Diamond Liberty single cam bow set at 60lbs. Both the cam and the idler wheel were at least half again as large as the older Martin bow's were. I ordered the Diamond in 60lbs because I felt that 70lbs would be way too hard to pull comfortably.

The 60lb Diamond's draw cycle made it so easy to draw, hold, and aim that I could very easily have ordered the 70lb limbs. Talk about advancements in design! But now I'm older (64) and don't shoot as much as I'd like to, so I'm happy with the easier 60lb limbs.

My Hoyt target bow is also set at 60lbs but the cams are a tad more aggressive so it is slightly harder to pull. Not uncomfortable - yet, but you can notice the difference, which is just fine because there is a lot more time to draw, hold, aim, and release in target shooting than there is in hunting.

What's the point of all this? 70lb bows today are more than likely to be as easy to shoot as were the 50lb bows of yester-year.........

[E.V.B.H.]

Every one is different and can shoot different bow weights. The real test should be if you can't smoothly draw your bow without breaking form, then you are shooting to much weight.

[Bow Walker]

I was once told that - for hunting bows - you should sit in a chair and try to draw your bow smoothly and without too much movement. If you cannot do it smoothly, quietly, and comfortably you are over-bowed and should drop down 5lbs to 10lbs in draw weight - or until you can do it properly.

Good rule of thumb to follow.

[hunter1993ap]

i have to say i find pulling a bow in the field in cold temps easy. when out hunting i only have to shoot 1 arrow as to target practice when i shoot on average about 60 at a time. i find a 70lb bow easy to pull and can do it as smooth as drawing a recurve. i have shot my bow at 70 pounds since i have been 15 so i think most male adults should be able to handle a 70lb bow. that being said i am not against anyone shooting 60lb bows as they have lots of speed to kill anything.

[warnniklz]

Dug up this old shoe of a thread. Doing so for a couple of reasons.

Reason umber one is new hunting stories have alowed down on here.

Reason number two is animals are becoming too easy to lead poison for me. So I'm in the market for my first bow. My first bow experience was dry firing my buddies bow when I was about 9 or 10. At the time I was surprised I didn't break my arm. Even though it felt like it.

But like I said, putting lead in animals isn't as challenging as it once was... and this thread is going to be a staple in my bow purchase.

[TheProvider]

Its a great thread for people getting into bowhunting

[EURO*D]

There is tons of helpful info on this site. Lots of older threads as well. For someone who is pretty new to bowhunting and compound bows in general, there is tons of info to learn. One of the things that I can suggest to anyone who is new or still learning is to look into arrow selection and weights as much as you research bows. There is a ton of good info out there regarding proper arrow length, weights, how to find your proper arrow length..... it goes on and on.

Great sport!!

[Ambush]

Dug up this old shoe of a thread.
Reason number two is animals are becoming too easy to lead poison for me. So I'm in the market for my first bow.

Well Warn I tried to leave a $1500 rig hanging in a tree in the Chilcotin for you. But Mr Rancher wanted me to shoot a few chickens on the trail so I had to go back and find it.

[warnniklz]

Well Warn I tried to leave a $1500 rig hanging in a tree in the Chilcotin for you. But Mr Rancher wanted me to shoot a few chickens on the trail so I had to go back and find it.

Did he guide you to a B&C ditch chocken?

Since you recovered yours... I guess I'll have to buy one when I head back north next week

[canoehead]

This is a great post. Thanks for sharing!

[Little-Blue-Dakota]

Hi I'm new to this sport and appreciate all your input and knowledge, I'm and currently finishing my core program and would rather start and stick with a compound bow. The store that I have been directed to for a bow only sells pse, now I would like to be able to hunt anything and everything from wild turky to deer and maybe even moose. What's everyone's thoughts on makes and brands for compounds, I also have a slight rotator cuff injury from when I was a kid so what would be a good way to start and find the right bow and weight for me to start with? Are there any stores that allow you to try out bows?

[Aaron Evans]

A great read.
to the new........... practice practice practice
and when you've done that practice some more.
If you're worried about penatration increase your arrow weight. Add a couple more pins and practice some more.

[Xenomorph]

First I want to say thank you to the OP for bringing this discussion up, and then another big thank you for all you people that chimed in without being judgmental and shared your personal experience and knowledge to us all.

I'm pretty new to the site, but hopefully I will get to meet some of you and put a face to the name ...sometimes, somewhere, I'll have the moonshine with me :mrgreen:





Theres a difference of pulling 70lbs smoothly back and and pulling 70lbs back. Horrific vids on youtube of guys showing off their new bows and absolutely struggling to pull it back. Kinetic energy is important. Yes that normally means more draw weight. Scenario.. 2 different bows, both 28" shooting the same arrow weight. The first bow has an IBO of 366fps and the bow is set at #64.The second bow has an IB0 rating of 318fps and is set at #70. You think #70 is still better??? Theres also alot of speed freaks out there that are buying the fastest bows and shooting #70 however there trying to shoot the lightest arrow possible. #70 is not always better.

Good thread though

Totally agree on that, if you cannot pull it back, hold it and maneuver like it's a 50# bow it's time you choose another.



Hi I'm new to this sport and appreciate all your input and knowledge, I'm and currently finishing my core program and would rather start and stick with a compound bow. The store that I have been directed to for a bow only sells pse, now I would like to be able to hunt anything and everything from wild turky to deer and maybe even moose. What's everyone's thoughts on makes and brands for compounds, I also have a slight rotator cuff injury from when I was a kid so what would be a good way to start and find the right bow and weight for me to start with? Are there any stores that allow you to try out bows?

I think as a general rule of thumb 45# minimum for deer, up to 60-65# for mule deer/elk, 65#+ for bigger game: moose, bear etc.

The brand of the bow does not matter in the end. What matters is how much money you want to spend and what fits you best. I'm new to archery and at the beginning I fell into the buy everything I can branch of the "archery enthusiasts". It might have been a bad approach but it introduced me to 65# compounds, 64 & 70# hunting longbows and a freakishly fun to shoot 50# Mongolian. After a couple of years of practice I ended up settling on my two new bows a Matrix 80# I just bought in December of last year and a new Carbon Spyder Turbo in same poundage that's coming soon.

Get into the shop or go to a club and ask your fellow archers to try their bows. Try as many as you want and choose the one that fits best. I would suggest a bow with modules for DL (easier to modify and sell afterwards) and the weight as low as possible to feel comfortable shooting. Don't go for the AWESOME draw weights and crap like that. Some people are just freaks. Like when I asked my dealer to bring me an 80# she had me pull back a 70# bow and when she saw I was doing it like butter over and over she said OK.

Get what is COMFORTABLE, BEST FIT and MOST ECONOMIC bow for you. Keep in mind the bow is only half of the money you'll spend on accessories: sight, stab, quiver, arrows, releases all add up to the cost of the setup.

[timbermilton]

trad only guy here, just got to chime in. don't nock us "primitive" archers getting pass throughs on moose at 15yds with a 55# yew selfbow in -25 weather with a 700gr wood arrow tipped with a 165gr simmons w/ 150gr nail inserted into the drilled tip. that moose went 35yds and piled up. i was walking a creek bed, he was on the bank, low double lung and heart shot. dug the arrow out of a tree 10yds on the other side of him. last year i got a huge mulie out in med hat alberta, he was spooked, jerky steps, same bow with a 610gr bamboo arrow tipped with a 200gr homemade trade point, double lung pass through at 47yds. i started out with a compound, after 3 months i was hitting the x's at 50yds with my Bowtech Guardian with the most up to date "crap" attached. just imagine ALL the things that could come loose walking through the brush to your stand/bland. if you notice, you can tighten, if you have the tools. if you don't notice, well, hope your good at tracking a wounded game. so with them thoughts, i went to barebow only and have taken far more game than ANY of my wheelie buddies. also not sure why the "wheelie" guys HAVE to have 70-80-90# bows. get better at HUNTING, shot placement, sharp broadhead and your 50#er will do just fine on ANYTHING in north america. if you must use a compound, learn to shoot it barebow, then add the "crap" if you must.