Lytton big horn sheep Castanet

[olharley guy]

Howdy, so hungry hunters killed the Lytton big horn sheep not poachers ?????
Castanet news Later

[Spy]

Do you have a link to the story?

[Singleshotneeded]

I was looking at the news on Castanet this morning and three rams were killed by two young near Lytton just before Christmas. The were ages 22 and 23, old enough to know better, and they were using an illegal-for-big-game .22 rimfire! One ram died and they took it home, the other two died a slow death from their injuries! The best part is that when they finally came forward and admitted what they'd done, probably feeling some heat, the CO didn't charge them or nail them with a nice fat fine because they were Any other poachers would've been nailed to the wall...how fair is that??:evil:

[coach]

Holy shit! Someone please explain this to me???

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-72050-3-.htm#72050

[olharley guy]

Do you have a link to the story?

Sorry not that good on the computer But Castanet news /Kelowna one ot the main headlines.

[Spy]

Its Not at all fair! IBTL!

[Caribou_lou]

I find it very hard to understand why they are referring to them as Hunters. If you are hunting out of season with the intention to kill and take home. You are poaching. Which makes them poachers not hunters.

[835]

If they try them and they poachers wil then it can become legal for them.
IBTL

ps that doesnt make it right.

[hunter1993ap]

ya it makes no sense that someone who is a hunter before would be charged for poaching but these guys dont. it is total ignorance to not understand the rules.

[lorneparker1]

do you have a link to the story?

[Whonnock Boy]

4.2 % are happy. :confused: I wonder who these people might be?


"Butcher notes this case is unrelated to an incident near Clinton". :confused:

Unrelated and days apart? That is one smart butcher. He knows that they do not own two firearms, or have access to multiple firearms. :confused:
Just another nail in the coffin of separation, and equality between races in this ****ed up country of ours.

[Gilmore]

http://www.castanet.net/news/BC/72050/Hungry-hunters-kill-big-horn-sheep

[vip_ruger]

Bull Sh-- Is all i can

[Gilmore]

At the bottom of the article you can place a vote as to how the article makes you feel. I went to push on "angry" but right next to it was "frustrated"...and that's what I voted. I am so far gone past angry that frustration is all that's left. No charges, not poaching, shot for food, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....same shit different day.

[Paulyman]

Glad to hear it wasn't poaching, I can sleep better at night :-(

[Gilmore]

4.2 % are happy. :confused: I wonder who these people might be?


"Butcher notes this case is unrelated to an incident near Clinton". :confused:

Unrelated and days apart? That is one smart butcher. He knows that they do not own two firearms, or have access to multiple firearms. :confused:
Just another nail in the coffin of separation, and equality between races in this ****ed up country of ours.


That's Bob Butcher, CO in Lillooet...not to be confused with the local meat cutter.

[beni]

makes me sick.

[guest]

HOW PATHETIC of our so called JUSTICE SYSTEM ! 2 tiered SYSTEM ........ WHAT HAPPENED TO JUSTICE FOR ALL !

THE C/O, RCMP and JUDGE if involved should CERTAINLY BE SEEKING MORE JUSTICE !

THESE GUYS ARE POACHERS PERIOD !

COME ON GET REAL AND MAKE EXAMPLES OF THESE LOSERS !

CT

[bc kid]

i cant believe the co bought there bs story for food....my a..s the goverment has no balls when it comes down to this bs.why shoot a full curl for food,if your starving to death maybey just my thoughts.no wonder or co quit here and when he did he said it was about all the fn and goverment bs.

[wanderingwoman]

Howdy,
I am in Lillooet, and this has angered lots of locals. But that said, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens again. There are lots of sheep around here... I hope I don't know them.

On another note- I'm new on here and new to the area and I was hoping to start a couple of new thread (or forum) on hunting around Lillooet, and hunting for sheep, scat collection and wildlife dogs etc. Any advice on how I can start threads?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Same old crap different pile. Chicken S$$$$ CO's this makes me want to puke!!! At least charge them on the 22lr if nothing else.

[leadpillproductions]

Are they not aloud to hunt sheep any time they want, understanding shooting them with a 22 is wrong , but if im correct they can hunt what ever they want in there rez land , i dont agree with it thay should have to follow the same rules as us .

[rcar]

Sure sounds like the 'authorities" found a neat and tidy "loophole" to be able to brush this one under the rug.

[500grhollowpoint]

I didn't see anything in the article saying they were native. Typical huntbc racist bullshit.

[500grhollowpoint]

I love how some of you assume they were native, but I also don't see how this wasn't poaching....

[Jelvis]

says small calibre rifle? How small was it? .223 or ? It does say too small for big-game.

[Caribou_lou]

I love how some of you assume they were native, but I also don't see how this wasn't poaching....

In no post prior to this was the word Native mentioned....

[pnbrock]

No charges laid and u question if it was fn. Cmon white man shoot A small ram in season he will be hung high!!!

[NaStY]

Never seen any reference to native either.

[Gateholio]

I didn't see anything in the article saying they were native. Typical huntbc racist bullshit.

I have a tough time believing that non native shooters would not have been charged, but I am wiling to wait and see.

[NaStY]

Reopening thread................

Please leave the racist comments out.

[The Dawg]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0910/mr-motifake-october-challenge-mr-motifake-finds-an-lolmod-demotivational-poster-1255462975.jpg

[Gilmore]

I love how some of you assume they were native, but I also don't see how this wasn't poaching....


They were sustenance hunting, they shot, killed and retrieved 1 ram out of season, they shot 2 other rams which later died, also out of season yet no charges were laid? Sorry but you don't have to Lt. Columbo to figure the ethnic background of the shooters.

[srupp]

hmmmm restoritive justice.....ya sure..

[40incher]

We'll see what happens when they try to sell the non-edible parts (cape, horns etc ....). Nothing would be my guess!

The C.O. "Sevice" should be real proud of their performance on this one. How many laws were broken .... let me see? Illegal use of firearm, wanton waste of game meat, failure to report wounded wildlife, ...... Gotta' love it!

[ratherbefishin]

this is precisely why my adopted first nations son refuses to go hunting with me anymore-he doesn't want to even be seen as associating with this sort of thing.

[coach]

I had to check the calendar when I read this story. Sure sounds like an April fools stunt. Absolutely ridiculous! To have these guys called "hunters" groups them in with the rest of us. It's an absolute disgrace! Contrast this to the ongoing trial for a hunter who shot a sheep from the same herd that may or may not have passed inspection. It's appalling. Words can't express how angry this makes me. Things need to change in a hurry.

[coach]

Never seen any reference to native either.

You don't think that was by design? It's a great way to paint all of us in a bad light. Sickening!!

[NaStY]

Hmm all I saw was a lack of government action towards stupid actions.

[boxhitch]

Sounds like the Lytton boys had a 'get out of jail free' card in their pocket.
Possible their elders will have a word with them..............hahhahahahahahahha

But really ? Kill one and didn't realize two others were mortally wounded ?
stewards of the land

[coach]

So why paint all Indians with the same brush? Sickening!

Tikka270, I think we've had discussions on these matters before and I certainly don't paint all Natives with the same brush. The fact is, the individuals here should have been charged. It's mind boggling how this can just be swept under the carpet. If a non-native did this they would be charged - period! Hunters don't shoot at sheep with .17hmr rifles. Poachers do! How was there no poaching issue here?

[trapperRick]

This is just a big pile of CRAP

[frenchbar]

its exactly how i figured it would go down ....

[goatdancer]

I didn't see anything in the article saying they were native. Typical huntbc racist bullshit.

Who else has a 'restorative justice' system?

[snareman1234]

Failure of the system

[olharley guy]

In no post prior to this was the word Native mentioned....

Howdy, now that is true but we are all assuming they were. If they were - the CO made the correct call saving the taxpayers a lot of money in defense lawyers and all the other costs in a court case where nothing will happen.

Again if they were - I hope the chief and elders give them a good reaming out just because of the media attention it may recieve.

And if they were hungry they have numerous options to be able to obtain a whole lot of groceries - not like a 100 years ago. Later

[Tikka270]

I didn't say that they weren't poachers. What they did was wrong and I think they should be charged or at the very minimum fined. My problem is everyone blaming two peoples wrong doings on an entire race. I wouldn't have a problem with them shooting a ram for food but ,why a ram? I wouldn't eat one! And leaving two injured rams after shooting them and not making any real effort to find them is BS. And it said they were using a .22 not a .17 hmr neither of which is ethically suitable for any big game. Blame it on two young ignorant poachers and stop blaming it on the rest of the people of the same heritage. The article didn't name their race and that's the way it should be!

[coach]

Is "hunger" now a legitimate defense for shooting ungulates out of season with a calibre illegal for use on animals that size? "Hunger" is now a defense for not making all possible effort to retrieve an animal? Is that what I'm hearing? Hunters are justified in doing this as long as they are hungry? Race had nothing to do with the charges being dropped? I'm now a racist because I disagree with this? Maybe someone can clear this up for me.

[Caribou_lou]

Howdy, now that is true but we are all assuming they were. If they were - the CO made the correct call saving the taxpayers a lot of money in defense lawyers and all the other costs in a court case where nothing will happen.

Again if they were - I hope the chief and elders give them a good reaming out just because of the media attention it may recieve.

And if they were hungry they have numerous options to be able to obtain a whole lot of groceries - not like a 100 years ago. Later

I wasn't trying to make the point that maybe the poachers weren't FN. I was quite aware of that fact and can see that I wasn't alone in figuring that out when it said that there were no charges laid.

I just get tired of people on this site pointing the finger and calling a bunch of us racists.

Nobody should ever stand up for a couple of low lifes abusing their rights to make a quick buck.

And to support my last statement. If it was for food and they were starving. Why not go pick off a couple of does or a buck. People would not be nearly as upset.

[RoscoeP]

says small calibre rifle? How small was it? .223 or ? It does say too small for big-game.

I heard it was a 17 caliber

[Mr. Dean]

I didn't see anything in the article saying they were native. Typical huntbc racist bullshit.

Neither did I.
Was the article different at one point or did I completely miss sumthin'????

[Wild one]

I am hungry who wants to go sheep hunting on the weekend

[Downwind]

I don't care what colour their skin is. This is pathetic. They should be strung up by their nuts and left for the birds. This is poaching by every definition of the word! Pathetic outcome.

[hotstuff]

Neither did I.
Was the article different at one point or did I completely miss sumthin'????

Restorative justice it said, which most should know is a term used when dealing with FN.

[Jelvis]

That bighorn Cali in the photo is a Kamloops ram, not from Lytton. Read it over look at caption under photo.
Those rams in Lytton were not trophies in the books or the C.O.'s could take the horns and give the sustenance to the young hunters.
No trophy hunting for natives out of regular season or leh. Must go for food only during off season.
Jelvi$ .. I don't shoot sheep at anytime, I like moose and deer meat, never tried it either .. ...............

[MtnBoy]

I found the rams in Lytton. There is no way you could not know the one ram was 'wounded'. Maybe the one up on the hillside but not the one that died at the gate to the cemetary.

[pronghorn]

What a joke is all I can say,I'm disgusted at there ruleing.

[dakoda62]

Hate to say it but Restoritive Justice leads me to believe they were not white.

[1980skywalker]

The reports can't say the culprits origins for fear of being called racist, but when you read between the lines it is as clear as day. I don't think the people who are calling it like it is should be attacked in any way by other 'hunters' on this site. We are all hunters and proud of it and when something like this happens it puts a bad name on all of us, it makes people 'racist' towards hunters. So the two people who did this deserve all the ridicule they have brought upon themselves and whatever race they are a part of. In the end the deepest shame will fall upon us, as hunters we are the minority. Call them hunters and the shame is on us, f@#$ whoever did this and do not fight amongst yourselves!

[Apolonius]

It is bad to say i told you so but i did.When i got mad at canuck shooter and said thats what was going to happen ,it did.I knew then like some other people the story .But they kept it quiet till they had to deliver it the right way.It was to be restorative justice.Sorry i thought it would be like "i was abused and all the rest".You remember me Canuckshooter?And BCWF is racist.And white guys still trust COs????Give your self a shake people.COs don't care !!!!!,if you are white you are screwd.And they want to change the regs for spences because two short rams???The wildlife biologist ,Doug Jury calls this , management????Management my ass!!!!!!

[calvin L]

It is to bad this B/S has happened @all. I have no idea why anyone would shoot a ram or rams for food. It must have been hard to find a deer? As to all this native non native stuff is b/s also if your white your white if your a native your a native. If you poach your a poacher nothing more. It makes me sick the why we a treated different that others. Imao get over it it happened years ago. I had to support myself and my family with out any hand out's enough said. By myself i will wait for hunting season. I hope there is game left for my kids to hunt.

Calvin L

[Singleshotneeded]

I stand by my original post in this thread I began this morning before the PC editing police got to it! :-)
I checked with a friend of mine that lives in Lytton, and the two young idiots involved were indians, and
the reason they were not charged for this poaching and letting two other animals die slowly is because
they were indians. How nice is that? Anyone else would've had their hide nailed to the wall for this poaching!

[oscar makonka]

[QUOTE=Jelvis;1107926]Those rams in Lytton were not trophies in the books or the C.O.'s could take the horns and give the sustenance to the young hunters.
[ QUOTE]

Wrong.. the CO's can't take the horns from any trophy animal the natives shoot for food, dosen't matter if its a trophy or not, trophy animals are edible and considered food.. I'm sure the natives could also come up with a 'ceremonial' need for those trophy horns. No judge will ever convict a status person for trophy hunting unless they are caught red handed selling the horns to a non status person.

[oscar makonka]

The only reason this incident even made the news is because in the beginning they didn't know it was natives that did the killing. If they knew it was natives that shot the sheep from the beginning no investigation would have happened. No laws were broken. They could shoot 10 or 100 sheep, trophys included right in front of the CO's and RCMP as witnesses and be totally within their rights as long as they did it safely and can prove that they are going to eat the meat.

[gutpile]

Well if the goverment increased thier welfare checks they wouldn't
go hungry and then they wouldn't have to go and hunt for their game.

[oscar makonka]

Well if the goverment increased thier welfare checks they wouldn't
go hungry and then they wouldn't have to go and hunt for their game.

They aint hungry and it isn't about lack of food.

[NorthShoreX]

Well if the goverment increased thier welfare checks they wouldn't
go hungry and then they wouldn't have to go and hunt for their game.

They let the meat of the sheep they took home spoil, so they couldn't have been that hungry.

[olharley guy]

You are wrong my friend!
Doesn’t require an Einstein to figure out that 2 local Indians(so sorry FIRST NATIONS) were the culprits.
“He says because poaching is not involved, the men will go through the restorative justice program and will not face criminal charges.”
DUH!


The incident was not officially deemed poaching since the First Nations men are allowed to shoot bighorn sheep for sustenance under B.C. regulations.
The hunters? will still face some form of reprimand, especially considering the sheep they took home also went to waste.
“They just let it spoil,” he said. “It was intended to be for food, I just don’t think they took it seriously.”
link
http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20120307/KAMLOOPS0101/120309811/-1/kamloops01/a-8216-lot-of-irresponsible-behaviour-8217-behind-ram-deaths

The title -“Hungry hunters kill big horn sheep”-
Political correctness gone too far –Should be- Poaching Waste of Skin Scum Bags Wanton & Cruel Killing of Big Horn Sheep


Howdy, Jeez-what do you mean my title went to far re political correctness, that was the headline on Castanet News.

If I had put your title in at the start, the thread wouldn't have gone one page before being closed. LOL

Nothing was said about FN whatsoever in the first news item even though 99% of people on here had these thoughts.

The Kamloops article has definitely cleared things up. I just don't get as vocal as most on here until I hear the facts. LOL again. Later

[shootthesheep]

The only reason this incident even made the news is because in the beginning they didn't know it was natives that did the killing. If they knew it was natives that shot the sheep from the beginning no investigation would have happened. No laws were broken. They could shoot 10 or 100 sheep, trophys included right in front of the CO's and RCMP as witnesses and be totally within their rights as long as they did it safely and can prove that they are going to eat the meat.

And as frustrated as this entire thread has become - and as emotional as it's become - Oscar has hit the point square on the head here. Is there really any doubt the ethnicity of the shooters? No way - they WERE Native because if they WERE NOT Native they would have poached these sheep IN THE EYES OF THE LAW.

And does anyone on this thread REALLY believe CO's don't give a $hit? They are here to administer what is right and wrong IN THE EYES OF THE LAW. They do not write the laws.

Bottom line is, the only transgression here IN THE EYES OF THE LAW was likely the prohibited calibre used, thus the token reprimand.

This just illustrates where we are at today in terms of living in a segmented society. I have friends who tell me about what goes on around Muncho Lake in the late fall when the sheep are forced down close to the hwy - Hey - NO laws being broken. If this frustrates you as it does me (and if I'm labelled a racist as a result so be it) then write your local MP and MLA.

[hotstuff]

Well all I can say is that I have heard that yes, we will deal with FN differently, and yes they will use a different approach based on their ancient customs, it entails sometimes sweat lodges, banishment from the tribe, sentences are also lighter, and yes, the sorry history of their people due to the way they were treated is taken into account, and within reason I feel that just as I would want to be tried or punished by my peers, I too feel they should try to take care of their own.
But it has to be in a fair manner, taking into account the laws that exist, and the crime should be called what it is, as defined by the wildlife act, if it was poaching, call it that, they are not hunters.
And if in fact this was purely a case of waste, and not of need for food, then it should be harsh, firearms taken away, prohibited from owning them again for a long time or even for life.

[Livewire322]

Everyone knows how I feel about this kind of shit! But just to reiterate it makes me sick, they could have eaten the meat but they didn't they let it go to waste which in itself is just wrong. I look forward to the day when this shit results in the same smack down that any Anglo Saxon would get being given to FN.
I'm a racist though because I say that this social inequality has gone on to long and gone to far!
I was also a racist in saying that the Cantonese MFers on the island should have been shipped back to china.

[Singleshotneeded]

If they were kids out for grouse with their .22s and got excited when they saw the rams and shot one...an excuse could be made
for the fact they were 14 year old kids and didn't think...their dads would've dressed the ram and it would've been put to good use.
If they were out hunting for sustenance in their traditional hunting areas with a proper legal centrefire rifle, and they shot a ram, well
that's their legal right. What ticks me off is they were adults, 22 and 23, perfectly capable of understanding the law and using common
sense as well, in that a .22 is NOT a big game rifle, firstly. Then, instead of shooting one animal, they shot three, and left two to die a slow death! The final bit of idiocy is they even let the one they took home rot! The icing on the cake is that they didn't pay ANY penalty at all! How do they get away with using an illegal rimfire, and shooting the other two animals and leaving them to die a slow and painful death?? Sickening!

[coach]

I guess this stuff is pretty minor: "several other offenses are suspected, including carrying a loaded weapon in a vehicle and discharging a weapon in a no-shooting area."

Best part of all of this is the precedence that gets set. No charges this time so expect to see more of this type of behavior in the future.

[coach]

What would be really refreshing would be for an elder member (or any member) of the Lytton FN community to step forward and say, "this type of behavior is wrong. Our people don't condone this. We will deal with this from within."

I guess I'm a racist, 'cause I figure if I hold my breath waiting for this kind of response, I'll be dead before the morning..

[scoutlt1]

Sad....
Sad that people, no matter who they are, can treat an animal(s) with no respect like this.
Sad that political correctness has taken over.
Sad that there will be no proper penalty paid for this.
Sad that this is, right or wrong, a reflection on a particular race of people.
Sad that there is no courage by those in "power" to make changes.
oh forget it....sad isn't the right word....it's f***ing pathetic.

[The Dude]

Wasn't a .22. Who said that? It was a .17 HMR. Kills stuff dead.

[The Dude]

LOL. No worries. I get some other leads from the area now and then. It's my "Barrio".

Hey, lots of Natives got a real raw deal from Whitey in the past.
Now we're getting some raw deals back at us. It sucks to be on the receiving end for once.
Doesn't make it right though. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.

[Mr. Dean]

Don't know where 23 is keeps coming from....


After tips from the public led authorities to two men aged 22 and 30, they
admitted they shot the rams on Dec. 10, according to conservation officer Bob
Butcher.



Also: If the quotes are correct, this wasn't actually a sustenence hunt, as all animals rotted away.
Shits-n-Giggles???




However Butcher said the hunters will still face some form of reprimand,
especially considering the sheep they took home also went to waste.




Authorities intend to address the incident through the restorative justice
program.

Under the Restoritive Justice Program, what kind of punishment could be sought/expected?
Anyone here lived through it???

[coach]

Don't know where 23 is keeps coming from....


Also: If the quotes are correct, this wasn't actually a sustenence hunt, as all animals rotted away.
Shits-n-Giggles???






Under the Restoritive Justice Program, what kind of punishment could be sought/expected?
Anyone here lived through it???

Answer to question one - yes, shits and giggles.

Answer to question two - I'll answer it with a question. At the risk of sounding racist: what type of punishment would you or I expect for driving around with a loaded gun in a vehicle, discharging a firearm in a no shooting zone and killing two mountain sheep without spending the time and effort to locate them, killing a third one and, through our own fault, allowing it to rot?

[Mr. Dean]

Answer to question one - yes, shits and giggles.

Answer to question two - I'll answer it with a question. At the risk of sounding racist: what type of punishment would you or I expect for driving around with a loaded gun in a vehicle, discharging a firearm in a no shooting zone and killing two mountain sheep without spending the time and effort to locate them and killing a third one, and, through our own fault, allowing it to rot?

Feel your frustration, Coach.

[Whonnock Boy]

Under the Restoritive Justice Program, what kind of punishment could be sought/expected?
Anyone here lived through it???

Copy and pasted from the Ministry of Justice website.

In a typical restorative justice process, everyone affected by a particular offence is invited to participate in a discussion of the circumstances surrounding the offence. Often this means that victims and their supporters, and offenders and their supporters, are guided by a restorative justice facilitator (or in some cases an elder) through a structured dialogue. This dialogue allows participants to share how the offence happened, how they were affected, and what needs to happen to make things right. The number of people involved will vary depending on the type of offence and the comfort-level of participants.

In other words, a Kumbiya type get together. I will be waiting for my invite. :confused:

It will go something like this.

Elder: Why did you do it?
30 yr old: White man.....
23 yr old: What he said.
Elder: Why did you let the meat go to waste?
30 yr old: Could not afford hydro bill to run the freezer. White man does not pay me enough.
23 yr old: I don't have a freezer. White man does not pay me enough to buy a freezer.
Elder: Why did you not try to find the other two rams you shot?
30 yr old: Too lazy, white man has never made us work.
23 yr old: Yeah, what he said.
Elder: So, what can we do to fix this.
23 yr old: Buy a bigger gun.
30 yr old: Yeah, what he said.
Elder: Ok, I think we are done here.


In other words, it is our fault. We should only be blaming ourselves.

[oscar makonka]

What would be really refreshing would be for an elder member (or any member) of the Lytton FN community to step forward and say, "this type of behavior is wrong. Our people don't condone this. We will deal with this from within."

I guess I'm a racist, 'cause I figure if I hold my breath waiting for this kind of response, I'll be dead before the morning..

I'm sure there are members of the band that are against this sort of thing. Problem is if they speak out they then are treated as trouble makers by the native rights activist types who generally control and administer their local 'nation'. They don't take kindly to members of their band speaking out against this sort of activity. The person speaking out could lose their job if they have one, be put to the back of the list to get a house etc etc. In fact many of those in positions of power within the band encourage this sort of 'in your face whitey, we do it because we can, how do you like us so far' mentality.

[Walking Buffalo]

What would be really refreshing would be for an elder member (or any member) of the Lytton FN community to step forward and say, "this type of behavior is wrong. Our people don't condone this. We will deal with this from within."

I guess I'm a racist, 'cause I figure if I hold my breath waiting for this kind of response, I'll be dead before the morning..


Elder condemnation of the wasteful act could have significant impacts. Hopefully someone will step up to the plate.


The Grande Chief of Northern Manitoba recently made a position statement regarding Thirty Caribou found wasted.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/03/07/mb-caribour-slaughter-manitoba.html


Grand Chief David Harper of the Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak (MKO), an organization representing northern Manitoba First Nations.

Harper said aboriginal hunters would never have done such a thing because First Nations use every part of the animal, including the meat and hides.

[Island Redneck]

Grand Chief David Harper of the Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak (MKO), an organization representing northern Manitoba First Nations.

Harper said aboriginal hunters would never have done such a thing because First Nations use every part of the animal, including the meat and hides.

Just because he says it doesnt mean its true.

Piles of rotting salmon, elk carcasses with one hind quarter gone laying rotting, sheep laying there rotting, moose laying rotting, in all cases this has been attributed to Indians by the justice system or the Press.

Chief Harper is just another polititian with no credability IMO.

[Goliath]

Boy, these guys (aka kids) should get a medal for what they've gotten away with!

Next time I'm feeling poor and hungry I'm gonna drive over to my neighbours place and shoot his fattest cow.

I wonder what my neighbour will do? Maybe he'll feel sorry for me and pay the butcher fees.

Probably not...but I'm sure he'll offer some restorative justice in a dimly lit barn.

[sheepsheen]

you have hit the nail on the head goatdancer...

[The Dude]

lie #1 - Took one home for meat. Good cover up.
lie #2 - Hungery. The 30 year old is in the bar every weekend.

It was hard seeing one of the shooters tonight at a school fundraiser. Lots of locals are not happy, have to wait and see what happens. Still might go to court.

Millman, is there a local band office there? Does the Chief have an email? I would like to send him, as an Elder, a respectful email asking politely what the Band intends to do. This is an opportunity for them. They have to realize that there's a storm on the horizon. This just brought it closer.

[Trophyslayer]

I hate how society talks about how everyone should be equal and then we give the FN all the power they want to F&*( up our name as hunters.. take away there rights and maybe they will work a bit harder learn what its like to be a part of society! I know there is al ot of good FNs out there but im assuming most of therm follow the ''WHITE MAN" laws

[Whonnock Boy]

lie #2 - Hungery. The 30 year old is in the bar every weekend.


Come on now. Surely you jest?

X2 on Band info.

[The Dawg]

Millman, is there a local band office there? Does the Chief have an email? I would like to send him, as an Elder, a respectful email asking politely what the Band intends to do. This is an opportunity for them. They have to realize that there's a storm on the horizon. This just brought it closer.

http://lytton.iwebez.com/siteengine/ActivePage.asp?PageID=69#TribalCouncilsandIndianBa ndOffices



Nlaka’pamux Nation Tribal Council Member Bands:

Boothroyd Indian Band

Chief: Phillip Campbell
P.O. Box 295, Boston Bar, BC, V0K 1C0
Phone: 604-867-9211
Fax: 604-867-9747
Email: boothroyd@uniserve.com
Boston Bar First Nation

Chief: Dolores O’Donaghey
P.O. Box 369, Boston Bar, BC, V0K 1C0
Phone: 604-867-8844
Fax: 604-867-9317
Email: bbarbandd@uniserve.com
Skuppah Indian Band

Chief: Doug McIntyre
P.O. Box 548 Lytton, BC V0K 1Z0
Phone: 250-455-2279
Fax: 250-455-2772
Email: fcia@fcia.net (fcia@fcia.net)
Lytton First Nation

Chief: Janet Webster
P.O. Box 20, Lytton, B.C. V0K 1Z0
Phone: (250) 455-2304
Fax: (250) 455-2291
Email: info@lyttonfirstnations.ca (info@lyttonfirstnations.ca)
Oregon Jack Creek Band

Chief: Robert Pasco
P.O. Box 940, Ashcroft, B.C. V0K 1A0
Phone: (250) 453-9098
Fax: (250) 453-9097
Email: ojcb@nntc.ca
Spuzzum First Nation

Chief: James Hobart
RR#1 Site 3 Comp 11 36500 Main Road, Yale,
BC, V0K 2S0
Phone: (604) 863-2395
Fax: (604) 863-2218
Email: spuzzum@uniserve.com

[The Dude]

Just emailed the Lytton Band. It doesn't work.

[Whonnock Boy]

It doesn't work.

Are you trying to be funny? Either way, it was a good laugh. Thanks!

[The Dawg]

Just emailed the Lytton Band. It doesn't work.


http://www.profilebrand.com/funny-pictures/category/demotivational/88_irony-bolt.gif

[The Dude]

Are you trying to be funny? Either way, it was a good laugh. Thanks!

I did not mean it that way, but your post got an LOL from me as well..........
I emailed the other Lytton band, and it just came back. These email addy's are bogus.
Guess none of them work.
*Rimshot* http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/Forum%20Ammo/Rimshot.gif

[Gateholio]

This is a pretty publicized event.

It's an opportunity for Band councils and the general public.

This is relaly poor PR for Indian bands, and if this is dealt with in a positive manner, we might get positive change.

Constructive public letters to newspapers and to the bands may help us all make some positive change.

Blustering and BS on HBC won't do eff all.

[The Dude]

This is a pretty publicized event.

It's an opportunity for Band councils and the general public.

This is relaly poor PR for Indian bands, and if this is dealt with in a positive manner, we might get positive change.

Constructive public letters to newspapers and to the bands may help us all make some positive change.

And that is exactly why I would like to send an email to the band(s) involved. Positive change for all.
Walk the walk, as it were.

[Gateholio]

Good work. If Email doesn't go through, try snail mail, and cc newspapers. And politicians...

[frenchbar]

The WSSBC is working to meet with the bands on this issue in the hopes of establishing some protocols, it will take some time but it is a start.. DD

that may cause more problems for the sheep hunters in that area... road blockages..do not tresspass...i can see it now ...

[Whonnock Boy]

My little snippet. Might dabble with it a little more. If anyone has come up with some concrete emails, and or addresses, posting up would be appreciated. I encourage others to do the same.




My frustrations, dissapointment, and anger can no longer be contained. I am compelled to voice my thoughts to the First Nations people of Lytton. Words cannot describe the feelings that myself, and many others share in regards to the blatant disregard for wildlife acted out by two members of your band.

I am an avid hunter, and fisherman. I can unequivocally state that I am a true 'Steward of the Land'. My respect for nature, and what our creator has given us is questioned by no one. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for these two men. The wastful slaughter of 3 sheep is shameful. Their abuse of the First Nation persons 'rights' is appalling.

The most unfortunate fact about this entire situation is that this is not an isolated incident. It is no secret that events such as these are a common occurance. Instances where herds of Elk are slaughtered with no means retrieval on populations with conservation concerns is a documented fact. Moose, elk, and deer have all been killed for no more than their rear quarters by First Nations people. Animals reportedly harvested for sustenance with half left to rot, or for the scavengers to feast. These are not just stories, these are facts that cannot be denied.

It is my understanding that these men will be dealt with in house via the Restorative Justice Program. I must admit, my faith in it is suspect. If I was to commit these offences, I would certainly be stripped of my right to hunt for years, decades, or life. Fines levied would financially break me. I would be shunned by my peers.

This leads me to the question, what are the intentions of those in charge to make these men accountable for their actions? I ask, no, I am begging that you lead by example and show that this type of behavior is not acceptable. Show all First Nations people locally, provincially, and nation wide that wastful displays of wildlife will not be tolerated. Do not do this to appease me or anyone else. Do this for yourselves. Do this to gain back the respect that these two men, along with many others have taken away. If you wish to fuel the fire of segregation between First Nations people, and non natives, do nothing.

[Jelvis]

How do you know they are members of that there band?
wastful is spelled incorrectly I think.
Where did you get your facts from? What source did you use? Put references for your quotes of fact.
This is my way of trying to help your letter, nothing else. Sounds pretty good tho.
Jp .. shows your passion for sheep and other wildlife .. you sound a little angry .. good luck let us know the feedback.

[Whonnock Boy]

How do you know they are members of that there band?
wastful is spelled incorrectly I think.
Where did you get your facts from? What source did you use? Put references for your quotes of fact.
This is my way of trying to help your letter, nothing else. Sounds pretty good tho.
Jp .. shows your passion for sheep and other wildlife .. you sound a little angry .. good luck let us know the feedback.

I don't know which band these men are members of. That is why I asked for some concrete emails or addresses. Yes, wasteful is spelled incorrectly. My facts are from people on here, people out there, people everywhere. The facts is, there are no facts. Few, if any of these stories are documented. We all know the reason for this. If they wish to debate my 'facts', I will know that my efforts would be better suited talking to a pickle. Yes, I am passionate about OUR resources. It matters not to me that this was a sheep. It is only advantageous to people like myself that this was a high profile species. I would feel the same way if these were does. Yes, I am a little angry. Many others feel the same as I.

Thanks Jelly. Constructive criticism is always appreciated.

[NaStY]

Should be interesting to see what is done if anything.

[Apolonius]

What the council would do is not as important as what the COs did.The council will look at the forum as a bunch of outsiders telling them what to do.The COs did not apply the law and the only reason is that they were natives.Nothing about sustenance or anything else.I would like to see for once to see the council rise up and say" charge them like a white guy would be charged".And then they can claim to be a nation.Nations have laws and that one law applies to all people.A crime is a crime no matter what your colour is.To tribal council "don't think this is the white mans law.it is yours too".They wasted your sheep too!!!

[snareman1234]

Everyone needs to be treated as an equal. Poaching is poaching. This was a wasteful joy shooting of a harvest sensitive species. If anyone else were to drive there and poach a ram tonight, I would HOPE they would be nailed to the wall for it. If these men are treated any different than any other poacher who has killed and wasted three sheep in our province, I would argue that is a failure of the legal system and exacerbates racism.

[shallowH2O]

Everyone needs to be treated as an equal. Poaching is poaching. This was a wasteful joy shooting of a harvest sensitive species. If anyone else were to drive there and poach a ram tonight, I would HOPE they would be nailed to the wall for it. If these men are treated any different than any other poacher who has killed and wasted three sheep in our province, I would argue that is a failure of the legal system and exacerbates racism.

very well said snareman

[shallowH2O]

I was brought up in a very active hunting family and through the teachings of my father, uncles and grandfathers (elders) was taught to respect nature and the values it holds. If I was that one that had comitted these crimes against the enviroment, not only would I have broke the laws of our province I would have shown great disrespect for my elders. By these two men cruelity killing and wasting these animals, that is exactly what they have done, shown huge disrespect for their elders

[guest]

COMMON ELDERS OF THE LYTTON F/N Band ....... get er done and MAKE BAD EXAMPLES OF THESE POACHERS !!!! THEY TOOK AWAY FROM US ALL !

AS FOR THE AUTHORITIES OF RCMP AND C/O's PRESS CHARGES !! NOW !!

CT

[frenchbar]

dont hold your breath curly top ..not going to happen .

[SimilkameenSlayer]

for me, this injustice has been noted and will be remembered.

tia

[Stumpy]

Growing up we were taught to eat what we shoot by my Elders. My Elders have been in Canada since ~1780 but we are not First Nations. My Elders would have punished me. Aside from ethics, we have a Criminal Code, Laws and Jails. If we did this I am sure that we would be punished to the extent of the law. One Law, One Race (human) and an eye for an eye.
If First Nations ever want to gain the respect of the rest of the Human Race, they would allow our existing judicial system to facilitate this process.....Time to Grow Up!

[oscar makonka]

If First Nations ever want to gain the respect of the rest of the Human Race, they would allow our existing judicial system to facilitate this process.....Time to Grow Up!

Problem is it is the whites who set up the system that allows different rules for skin color. It wasn't the natives who made the laws, it was our bleeding heart politicians who gave them these special rights blissfully ignoring the absolute certainty that many natives would abuse them.

[40incher]

Blah, blah, blah .......

[The Dude]

Bumpiing this one too.

Did anyone ever hear of any punishment for these douchewads?

[Spy]

[QUOTE=The Dude;1251243]Bumpiing this one too.

Did anyone ever hear of any punishment for these douchewads?[/QUOTE
Nothing happened to them this is Canada! Only white people get charged with shit !

[Clouddog]

If that is not poaching??? Then can someone tell what is??

[srupp]

hmmm after 30 years around this "crap" havnt yet met a first nation around here who appreciates sheep meat for eating.
The last sheep shot were rams also, and the heads were offerred for sale to anyone who had $10,000 for them each..

last 25 years never met any f/n out sheep hunting for meat...

I also believe the CO'S DO in fact care..its a political decision far above their pay grades..

Steven

[Wild one]

hmmm after 30 years around this "crap" havnt yet met a first nation around here who appreciates sheep meat for eating.
The last sheep shot were rams also, and the heads were offerred for sale to anyone who had $10,000 for them each..

last 25 years never met any f/n out sheep hunting for meat...

I also believe the CO'S DO in fact care..its a political decision far above their pay grades..

Steven


I agree that the CO's care and are frustrated with the politics that make it difficult for them to get results

[Jelvis]

A CO could be standing there and couldn't do anything unless it was a gun violation or in city limits.
Co's are Provincial, the Status Indian is Federal, until you realize this you will bang your head against the wall for nothing.
On Crown land a Status Indian can hunt anything that isn't on the Extinction List. Anytime anywhere anything.
Look up the court case appeal decison of Willy Alphonse Jr. on Google. Tells the whole story and he could shoot on private farmers property also which he was charged for and won in court.
Jel .. Read it and see for yourself, it's written down -- On Google -- Willy Alphonse Jr. Supreme Court Appeal --
Then accept or write the Federal Justice Dept and tell them what you think of the majority ruling they did. ------
Crying about it ain't doing anything.

[ianwuzhere]

Castanet reminds me like an internet dating site- she would never look the same in person and is definatly not "average"!!
every publisher wants to look good somehow and ive seen lotsa BS come from that site.. :(

[Brown dog]

:evil:I snap!!

[wsm]

conservation.officer.service@gov.bc.ca
email them show your displeasure

[coach]

conservation.officer.service@gov.bc.ca
email them show your displeasure

The problem isn't with the Conservation Officers. I'm sure they are just as frustrated as the rest of us.

[edgar11]

A CO could be standing there and couldn't do anything unless it was a gun violation or in city limits.
Co's are Provincial, the Status Indian is Federal, until you realize this you will bang your head against the wall for nothing.
On Crown land a Status Indian can hunt anything that isn't on the Extinction List. Anytime anywhere anything.
Look up the court case appeal decison of Willy Alphonse Jr. on Google. Tells the whole story and he could shoot on private farmers property also which he was charged for and won in court.
Jel .. Read it and see for yourself, it's written down -- On Google -- Willy Alphonse Jr. Supreme Court Appeal --
Then accept or write the Federal Justice Dept and tell them what you think of the majority ruling they did. ------
Crying about it ain't doing anything.
I agree with Jelvis here. The laws were forced onto FN's eons ago, long before any other Conservation laws came into effect.It seems people think these laws were made up after the fact. Sorry, they have always been there but they only come up when people think they are not being treated equally. It has always been our right to hunt and the government dictates when and what you can hunt. Not our problem, take it up with them. I disagree with what happened in this case but do not group all natives to what theses guys have done.Period. Yes what they did was unethical but it was not unlawful.

[steel_ram]

Sometimes I imagine how things would have been so different. Say the Spanish had decided to stay in the North West, or perhaps no Europeans, and instead the Japanese. Somebody was going to show up eventually, and how different primitives would have been treated. How lucky they should consider themselves.

[coach]

What they did with regard to killing 3 rams and letting them rot was unethical - regardless of whether they were legally allowed to hunt at the time. Sustenance hunting (the reason they are allowed to hunt) usually involves taking care of the meat. What they did with regard to carrying a loaded weapon in a vehicle, discharging a firearm in a no-shooting area and utilizing a caliber that was not legal for big game was illegal. Clearly this was about shits and giggles. The whole situation is very disappointing.

[edgar11]

Sometimes I imagine how things would have been so different. Say the Spanish had decided to stay in the North West, or perhaps no Europeans, and instead the Japanese. Somebody was going to show up eventually, and how different primitives would have been treated. How lucky they should consider themselves.
Feel Lucky? Really Steel ram? The grounds are being polluted, trees are getting cut down,there are diseases everywhere, the earth is dying because of GREED! yeah they should feel lucky. They did manage to survive the atrocities that were imposed on them though so I guess they were lucky.

[scoutlt1]

Feel Lucky? Really Steel ram? The grounds are being polluted, trees are getting cut down,there are diseases everywhere, the earth is dying because of GREED! yeah they should feel lucky. They did manage to survive the atrocities that were imposed on them though so I guess they were lucky.

Greed comes in all colors.

[edgar11]

Greed comes in all colors.

So does" love "and" respect"

[coach]

I sure feel the love when I walk into the Lytton hotel to pick up some "off sale" beer. Love the chan that starts up, "whitey, whitey!!"

[edgar11]

I sure feel the love when I walk into the Lytton hotel to pick up some "off sale" beer. Love the chan that starts up, "whitey, whitey!!"

Maybe you look like their friend"whitey". Your lucky they could have just totally ignored you. A good place to go(beer parlor) if your looking for love though.:)

[The Dude]

I agree with Jelvis here. The laws were forced onto FN's eons ago, long before any other Conservation laws came into effect.It seems people think these laws were made up after the fact. Sorry, they have always been there but they only come up when people think they are not being treated equally. It has always been our right to hunt and the government dictates when and what you can hunt. Not our problem, take it up with them. I disagree with what happened in this case but do not group all natives to what theses guys have done.Period. Yes what they did was unethical but it was not unlawful.

It certainly was unlawful. Any homes near there? Any other buidlings nearby? They shot over a fenced cemetary, where people may have been, in a possible "No Shooting" zone anyway. They shot with a small calibre rifle that is illegal to shoot big game with.
The shootings were ostensibly for "Sustenance", but ALL the meat on THREE rams was wasted and left to rot, so all bets are off.
These guys should be severely dealt with by the Band, but I won't hold my breath.

I have an email in to the CO's Office, so let's see when and IF they reply...... I won't hold my breath there either.

[*bcgold*]

How many times do you have to be told: After playing pin the Whitetail, to take the whitetail tail off the back of your jacket, Coach :wink:

[frenchbar]

I sure feel the love when I walk into the Lytton hotel to pick up some "off sale" beer. Love the chan that starts up, "whitey, whitey!!"

lol so youve visited the lytton cantina ..quite the place

[coach]

lol so youve visited the lytton cantina ..quite the place

I used to fish the Thompson every year. Had the odd forgetful night at the Lytton! Ha ha! I'll never forget this one older FN gentleman, his nose permanently squished to the side of his face, barely able to stand.. Somehow we got into a conversation with him. Told him we were there to fish. I asked him, "what do you like to do for fun?"

He looked at me, staggered a couple times, and said, "Golf!"

[scoutlt1]

It certainly was unlawful. Any homes near there? Any other buidlings nearby? They shot over a fenced cemetary, where people may have been, in a possible "No Shooting" zone anyway. They shot with a small calibre rifle that is illegal to shoot big game with.
The shootings were ostensibly for "Sustenance", but ALL the meat on THREE rams was wasted and left to rot, so all bets are off.
These guys should be severely dealt with by the Band, but I won't hold my breath.

I have an email in to the CO's Office, so let's see when and IF they reply...... I won't hold my breath there either.


Keep up the good work Dude!

And honestly, I think I liked "Illegitimi non carborundum" better! :-)

[burger]

Greed comes in all colors.


Yes it does!!!

[frenchbar]

I used to fish the Thompson every year. Had the odd forgetful night at the Lytton! Ha ha! I'll never forget this one older FN gentleman, his nose permanently squished to the side of his face, barely able to stand.. Somehow we got into a conversation with him. Told him we were there to fish. I asked him, "what do you like to do for fun?"

He looked at me, staggered a couple times, and said, "Golf!"

haha kinda ironic .. should of gave him a lesson ..lol

[coach]

haha kinda ironic .. should of gave him a lesson ..lol

Ha ha! It was a rather funny moment, Frenchie. It's quite the establishment there

[Jelvis]

If I was that worked up about this situation as some appear to be so emotional and passionate, I'd personally go down to the Lyton Band Office and tell them how I feel, and demand an answer as to what they did to these members for wasting three sheep?
Then I'd go down (if there was anything left of me lol) to the CO office in charge of that jurisdiction and demand to talk to the CO who handled this case file. (expect an ice ee stare with a cold shoulder attitude)
This way I'd find out how they would react when confronted face to face. ( and get your photo taken by hidden camera)
But I don't think anyone would actually have the guts to do that. lol. Or be stupid enuff to actually try this.
.. Why not try that? Better than going on and on about it and getting no where.
I could try and set up a meeting for anyone who wants to meet the band members involved and find out the truth.
I'm hoping you say no wayyyyyy, because it wouldn't be wise.
(and) I'll bet dollars to jelly donuts the CO ain't going to tell you nuttin honey.
The CO office must start a file on (Any) ( Inquiries) (You made on this case load) Your name will be on the CO computer for reference in this case. Your a marked man.
Jel .. Your tredding water in the rip tide .. Glug glug glug lol .. all by your lonesome .. your on Candid Camera!

[Gilmore]

If I was that worked up about this situation as some appear to be so emotional and passionate.....

So Jelly what your saying is 3 rams shot and left to rot doesn't get you worked up??? I'll tell you what, that attitude kinda gets me worked up. We know where all the inquires you are suggesting end up, same place as those rams, in a bureaucratic BS dead end. Your right, I (whitey) can't do nothing about this, the CO's can't do nothing, the government won't do nothing, the only group that can do anything about this are the stewards of this great land and guaranteed they are going to do the same thing. Nothing.

[Gilmore]

The grounds are being polluted, trees are getting cut down,there are diseases everywhere, the earth is dying because of GREED!

And this is a Caucasian only problem? Really? Along with the trees and pollution don't forget rams are being shot and left to rot.

[Jelvis]

If you say you know nothing can be done about it, and you say nothing, then why get all that, without going down there and telling them your side of the equation? Then YOU would be doing something instead of pointing out no one will do anything?
Your blaming the government and everyone for doing sqwat, and yet not doing anything yourself except getting emotional.
You want to meet these guys? Or not? Take a friend or a couple guys with you and make a case, maybe they will understand when you explain your message. It's not impossible to meet these guys. You know where they are. No law says you can't go there and talk.
What else can you do? No one else is doing anything and you already know that.
Do you want to go there? Just say yes or no. this is your chance to get it off your chest once and for all.
If you choose no, then no use talking about it.
Time to get off the pot or take a dump.

[Gateholio]

The people that should be doing something about this are the leaders of their community.

With special privileges comes added responsibility. The leaders of the community need to take charge. With the courts unwilling to tackle wanton destruction and waste by native individuals, it's up to the community to take on the responsibility of policing themselves.

[The Dude]

They weren't even hungry, as three rams were 100% wasted.
They were trigger happy idiots with no consideration for the suffering of animals, the waste of three magnificent bighorns, or the safety or concerns of others.
They are 22 and 30 years old, hardly kids. They're **** ups who need to be made an example of.
I'm surprised the band's not all over these two like fish on Friday.

[Jelvis]

I would like to see you fellas go there as a team, a team of concerned individuals for protection of the sheep in that area.
A team to help the leaders see it the way we do. And give the leaders of the Lytton Band community some sound advice on what and how to deal with rogue members wasting meat and killing wild animals using cruel methods on top of that.
I think you could help, like has been repeated many times, no one is doing sqwat, not the government, federal or provincial, and no citizens. Has the BCWF talked to the band?
So it's got to be someone with strong convictions against this type of thing happening. And that's you fellas.
Gilmore, The Dude, steel ram and some others could get together and I could try to make an appointment for you fellas to talk with at least a couple counsellers and maybe the band manager. Maybe even the Chief.
Just say when you would like to go, the hunting season is done now and it could be a good time. The Dude has already got involved e-mailing the CO's for a response on this important matter. Any body a member of BCWF or The Sheep Society?
When can you be available to go, so I can set an appointment through the appropriate Tribal Council ?

[edgar11]

And this is a Caucasian only problem? Really? Along with the trees and pollution don't forget rams are being shot and left to rot.

If you would have read more of the thread, you would have noticed that I agreed that what happened to the Rams was wrong and I did not not say that it was a "Caucasian only problem". I don't know where you got that from. You missed the main concern in my opinion which is GREED which is causing the Earth to die. More, More, More, "what about me" is the main theme of today. Nobody is ever happy with what they got. They always want to know why "the other guy" is getting more than them. Is that more clearer for you?

[The Dude]

Jelly, you trolling now? Seeing who's gonna Nut up, or Shut Up? :D

Do me a favour if you want to get pro-active on this. The emails for the band dont work, I tried to send emails and they came back as invalid.
Get me some emails that work. I'm traveling now, so won't be setting up any appointments in Lytton for the foreseeable future, however, on my next trip to the Thompson, I would relish the opportunity of sitting down and discussing this as rational adults intent on protecting our valuable resources that we all share.

[burger]

If you would have read more of the thread, you would have noticed that I agreed that what happened to the Rams was wrong and I did not not say that it was a "Caucasian only problem". I don't know where you got that from. You missed the main concern in my opinion which is GREED which is causing the Earth to die. More, More, More, "what about me" is the main theme of today. Nobody is ever happy with what they got. They always want to know why "the other guy" is getting more than them. Is that more clearer for you?

Sorry there Edgar11 but your back pedal will not work. You implied in your post that everybody else was causing those issues that relate to greed and that is why FN were not lucky as stated by someone else. Greed happens on both sides of the fence and we all know it.


Is that clearer for you??

Heres what you wrote just for a refresher

"Feel Lucky? Really Steel ram? The grounds are being polluted, trees are getting cut down,there are diseases everywhere, the earth is dying because of GREED! yeah they should feel lucky. They did manage to survive the atrocities that were imposed on them though so I guess they were lucky"

[Gilmore]

If you would have read more of the thread, you would have noticed that I agreed that what happened to the Rams was wrong and I did not not say that it was a "Caucasian only problem". I don't know where you got that from. You missed the main concern in my opinion which is GREED which is causing the Earth to die. More, More, More, "what about me" is the main theme of today. Nobody is ever happy with what they got. They always want to know why "the other guy" is getting more than them. Is that more clearer for you?

I have read the entire thread, you were inferring that "they" survived atrocities and "they" should feel lucky, your words. So I guess I did jump to conclusions thinking you were saying this was a Caucasian problem only. Everyone's to blame except for "they", I think I got it now.

[The Dude]

Come on guys, don't get this locked up. I simply wanted to know what punishments, if any, were meted out to the guilty parties.
That is all.

[edgar11]

Sorry there Edgar11 but your back pedal will not work. You implied in your post that everybody else was causing those issues that relate to greed and that is why FN were not lucky as stated by someone else. Greed happens on both sides of the fence and we all know it.


Is that clearer for you??

Heres what you wrote just for a refresher

"Feel Lucky? Really Steel ram? The grounds are being polluted, trees are getting cut down,there are diseases everywhere, the earth is dying because of GREED! yeah they should feel lucky. They did manage to survive the atrocities that were imposed on them though so I guess they were lucky"

No back peddling here Burger. "Implied" is not the same as calling out a certain race as the person I was having a discussion with was doing. I also did not know there was 2 sides of a fence in this case. I see everyone the same and so should you.

[Jelvis]

Marnin Dooooood hey, I was fishin on a mission. I was hoping this whole episode would come to a final result with a happy conclusion, but I can't see that happening any time soon with all the confusion around this unfortunate situation. Not good of course as any one who respects an animals life surely would be disgusted with some one killing a big game animal with a pellet gun.
That's my main concern. A pellet gun? That's wrong no matter who shot the sheep or why they killed them.
Hopefully the fellas who were said to have done this have learned their lesson and will never do this again, I would assume they felt the shame they caused this band and were talked to by the officials of the band.
No I woudn't expect anyone outside of the band to go there and get involved with the internal affairs unless it was a provincial official which was invited to talk to the people responsible for wildlife management in the band council.
The Lytton Band I'm sure is a strong responsible band and will manage this and keep an eye out in the future.
They fish salmon in the mighty Fraser and hunt of course.
Let's hope this type of inhumane shooting never happens again any where in B.C.
Jel .. With that, stick a fork in me .. Have a fantastic day everyone and enjoy the off season getting ready for 2013.

[Gilmore]

If you say you know nothing can be done about it, and you say nothing, then why get all that, without going down there and telling them your side of the equation? Then YOU would be doing something instead of pointing out no one will do anything?
Your blaming the government and everyone for doing sqwat, and yet not doing anything yourself except getting emotional.
You want to meet these guys? Or not? Take a friend or a couple guys with you and make a case, maybe they will understand when you explain your message. It's not impossible to meet these guys. You know where they are. No law says you can't go there and talk.
What else can you do? No one else is doing anything and you already know that.
Do you want to go there? Just say yes or no. this is your chance to get it off your chest once and for all.
If you choose no, then no use talking about it.
Time to get off the pot or take a dump.

You didn't answer my question Jelly, this kind of thing doesn't get you wound up? I see you stated that you wouldn't be going to Lytton either, why's that? My point was not that nobody "will" do anything more that they "can't". Nobody can do anything about this except for one group, one group who have plenty of opinions for things they don't agree with that happen across this country but don't bother to keep up with the things happening in their own backyard.

[Jelvis]

I hear your frustration and we all feel bad about this terrible type of killing with a pellet gun, that's a no no for anyone.
It's disgusting to see adult men doing this type of thing, especially for us who respect and love to hunt.
I have to believe the band authorities have discussed this situation among themselves and with the provincial counter parts.
Jel .. I'm on side with your concerns also as anyone who lives in BC would be .. I bet some Lytton people have been following this story too on here and see the opposition to this sort of abuse.

[Spy]

Remember this ? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2009/08/11/sask-youtube-duck-hunter-convicted-observations.html
Remember how the media & the public cried fowl ! Can you imagine the out cry if they shot 3 sheep, not to mention the fines ! ! Whats good for the goose should be good for the gander ! :confused::confused:

[edgar11]

I have read the entire thread, you were inferring that "they" survived atrocities and "they" should feel lucky, your words. So I guess I did jump to conclusions thinking you were saying this was a Caucasian problem only. Everyone's to blame except for "they", I think I got it now.

No you still don't get it but I am tired of trying to explain so lets just leave it at that.

[Wild one]

Jelvis you act like the Lytton FN's would tear a man apart for just wanting to talk. I find this funny because I have met and run into a lot of members of this band and can honestly say they have been good people. Your blowing smoke pretty hard

Do I think those who wasted these rams are getting hard enough punishment no. Do I think pressure from outside of the band would increase the punishment no. But I don't see there being a repeat of this incident any time soon.

For those wanting to speak to the Lytton band google it. I won't track down the info because I don't see it changing anything

[burger]

No back peddling here Burger. "Implied" is not the same as calling out a certain race as the person I was having a discussion with was doing. I also did not know there was 2 sides of a fence in this case. I see everyone the same and so should you.

Me thinks a dictionary would do you some good there edgar...maybe look up implied. And yes there is two sides to the fence when it comes to greed all races are guilty in some form or another.

Lastly I do try and see everyone the same BUT it seems harder to do when we have two sets of rules. How can anyone loook at both sides the same when there is not common rules for both?

Sorry for the hiijack The Dude but I am pretty sure you know the outcome of the punishment....Well I stand corrected from posts below and is quite refreshing to be wrong!!

[wsm]

i got an email back that assured me that the guys that killed the sheep were dealt with accordingly . i have no reason distrust the co's response.
here is a section of the email copy and pasted that pertains to this topic
They were hunters, albeit inexperienced, and they did face consequences. These included, as you mention, hunting suspensions as well as firearm destruction, community service and the requirement for successful completion of mandatory training prior to ever being able to hunt again once suspension periods are over

[Ltbullken]

Restorative Justice - as long as they experience consequences.

[Spy]

i got an email back that assured me that the guys that killed the sheep were dealt with accordingly . i have no reason distrust the co's response.
here is a section of the email copy and pasted that pertains to this topic
They were hunters, albeit inexperienced, and they did face consequences. These included, as you mention, hunting suspensions as well as firearm destruction, community service and the requirement for successful completion of mandatory training prior to ever being able to hunt again once suspension periods are over

Thats great to hear thanks for following up WSM . I think we can put this to bed now !

[edgar11]

Me thinks a dictionary would do you some good there edgar...maybe look up implied. And yes there is two sides to the fence when it comes to greed all races are guilty in some form or another.

Lastly I do try and see everyone the same BUT it seems harder to do when we have two sets of rules. How can anyone loook at both sides the same when there is not common rules for both?

Sorry for the hiijack The Dude but I am pretty sure you know the outcome of the punishment....Well I stand corrected from posts below and is quite refreshing to be wrong!!

implied:hinted at or suggested; not directly expressed .Yep! I know what implied means. As far as "rules" go, the FN people did not make those rules up. They are following rules made up by the same bodying government that made up rules to non-FN people in regards to hunting regulations. I can't park in a handy cap parking spot, I can't go in a womans washroom, I can't go in a bar unless I am older than 19, the list goes on. This idea about inequality is ridiculous! It's because you can't hunt what FN people can hunt is why you are upset about this. Try not being able to speak your language, practice your religion or even allow your children to live with you and then we can talk about inequality. Sheesh!

[burger]

implied:hinted at or suggested; not directly expressed .Yep! I know what implied means. As far as "rules" go, the FN people did not make those rules up. They are following rules made up by the same bodying government that made up rules to non-FN people in regards to hunting regulations. I can't park in a handy cap parking spot, I can't go in a womans washroom, I can't go in a bar unless I am older than 19, the list goes on. This idea about inequality is ridiculous! It's because you can't hunt what FN people can hunt is why you are upset about this. Try not being able to speak your language, practice your religion or even allow your children to live with you and then we can talk about inequality. Sheesh!

While I do completely agree with you that those were horribe thing they are things of the past and while there are some people still struggling with these demons for the most part those people are slowy dissaperaing and the next generation is taking over. Now I do feel we should be taking care of those people but I dont feel that the newer generations should dwell on these problems of the past. When you have 20 somethings bitching about how their people this and that...Really you were not even a glint in someones eyes. Would you as a society not benefit more from going forward rather than looking backwards?

My only offence was I was born here of a different race than you but I have done nothing directly. I work I pay taxes and I contribute to not only mainstream society but to also yours in the way of restitution.


So I ask you Edgar. How long do I have to keep paying for these issues that I never created nor would I have wanted to?

[Tikka270]

While I do completely agree with you that those were horribe thing they are things of the past and while there are some people still struggling with these demons for the most part those people are slowy dissaperaing and the next generation is taking over. Now I do feel we should be taking care of those people but I dont feel that the newer generations should dwell on these problems of the past. When you have 20 somethings bitching about how their people this and that...Really you were not even a glint in someones eyes. Would you as a society not benefit more from going forward rather than looking backwards?

My only offence was I was born here of a different race than you but I have done nothing directly. I work I pay taxes and I contribute to not only mainstream society but to also yours in the way of restitution.


So I ask you Edgar. How long do I have to keep paying for these issues that I never created nor would I have wanted to?



So many misinformed people think that all of this is payment for residential schools....it's not! The not having to pay taxes ON RESERVE is for having their land taken away from them. The rules set in place for FN, as has been said OVER AND OVER again, are federal laws... not indian laws. The laws are racist in so many ways but they are pretty well set in stone. Where does it get you complaining to a keyboard?

[burger]

So many misinformed people think that all of this is payment for residential schools....it's not! The not having to pay taxes ON RESERVE is for having their land taken away from them. The rules set in place for FN, as has been said OVER AND OVER again, are federal laws... not indian laws. The laws are racist in so many ways but they are pretty well set in stone. Where does it get you complaining to a keyboard?

I totally understand all that you have posted and how it all works but the keyboard is a means of communication and could have the potential to incite thought where really doing nothing is just that nothing .

[Jelvis]

Why do the people keep bringing back the Lone Ranger movies Keemo Sabby?

[Tikka270]

That would be all fine and dandy if it were kept civil but, why would anyone pay any attention to someone libeling an entire race? All because of a few who abuse the system when most do not.

[Tikka270]

I got sucked into this thread and now I'm out!

[Jelvis]

B.C. is so different from the people east of the Rocky Mountains, no treaties signed until a decade ago.
Now 100 percent of BC will have to deal with this, it ain't going away anytime soon.
Uncertainty causes delays for business ventures here.
Some bands have not signed on to the treaty process and won't.
Same with hunting rights, why sign anything Indians can already hunt full time. Signing papers is only chewing away at this, so no one will sign without an Indian court and lawyers.
95 percent of BC is Crown land, only a very tiny amount of private land in BC. Keemo Sabby.

[burger]

That would be all fine and dandy if it were kept civil but, why would anyone pay any attention to someone libeling an entire race? All because of a few who abuse the system when most do not.

Your statement works both ways. I never abused the system but I am being held responsible.

[Jelvis]

Only 6 percent of BC is Indians, so your not paying much for Indians, your paying for the other 94 percent for education, health care, and highway infrastructure, don't blame everything you pay on taxes on 6 percent of the mass.
Your mathematics is way off.
New immigrants get welfare more than the ones living here when they step off the boat. Why? They are unemployable till they get established and set up.
Their coming from the same place your relatives came from over seas.
Jel .. It's time to stop using natives as an excuse for everything you don't like or can't understand.

[The Dude]

From the CO's Office:

(excerpt)

2 subjects admitted to the killing of 3 rams in the Lytton case. They were dealt with via a Community Justice forum. Consequences and penalties for their actions included weapon destruction, hunting suspensions, community service and mandatory training prior to hunting again once suspensions are concluded.

[Jelvis]

Hi Yo Silver Ah Wayyyyyyyyy -- Who was that masked man?

[The Dude]

If it's all true, I think I can live with that for now.

[Jelvis]

No one tells the truth, there's 3 sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth.
You don't grow up, you just learn how to act in public.
Only Walter from the Big Labowski tells it the way it is. Har har har
Jel ..

[Jelvis]

Remember Code red? Jack Nickleson and Tom Cruise --Jack says, " You want answers?" "Hah you want answers?
Tom says, -----" I want the truth!"
Jack says, ---- " You can't handle the truth!"

[Gateholio]

Be interesting to know who enforces the punishment.

[Jelvis]

Destruction of weapons it says, I guess take the pellet gun over a knee and break it.
Anyone could do that.
Hunting course? Couple hours in the hall watching a video on conservation
Community hours -- cut the grass a couple times or have to drive the band truck to Lytton for groceries.
Prolly about it.
This isn't like going to a provincial court where the judge sits way up high and can't be reached and Sherrifs for protection.
It's in a room in the coffee shack sitting around talking while holding an eagle feather when it's your turn to talk.
When your in a circle like this and you hold an eagle feather it means your to be honest and humble with respect.
The eagle is the closest thing to the Creator, it flys the highest of all birds in Canada.
Jel

[edgar11]

While I do completely agree with you that those were horribe thing they are things of the past and while there are some people still struggling with these demons for the most part those people are slowy dissaperaing and the next generation is taking over. Now I do feel we should be taking care of those people but I dont feel that the newer generations should dwell on these problems of the past. When you have 20 somethings bitching about how their people this and that...Really you were not even a glint in someones eyes. Would you as a society not benefit more from going forward rather than looking backwards?

My only offence was I was born here of a different race than you but I have done nothing directly. I work I pay taxes and I contribute to not only mainstream society but to also yours in the way of restitution.


So I ask you Edgar. How long do I have to keep paying for these issues that I never created nor would I have wanted to?
I think what you don't understand Burger is that what happened in the past affects generations and generations and you have to remember that when the children were taken away, that left a generation with no parenting skills and a generation that dealt with losing their children,religion,language,land etc by using alcohol or drugs.Also, the last residential school closed down in the nineties so that was not too long ago that this atrocity occured. Now to undo that will take awhile. Our belief is that it will take seven generations. Now if you think an apology by the prime minister is going to cure all wounds you are sadly mistaken.
I don't know how YOU are paying for this, if you mean taxes, then your tax money is being spent on far more frivolous things then to a few FN people. I also pay taxes and do not get any "handouts" as so many on this site seem to think. FN people don't ASK for ANYTHING other than what they were entitled to long ago, including hunting. If people still think FN's are getting "handouts" just drive through a couple of reserves and see if these "third world" looking places are receiving anything.

[The Dude]

They don't get them back, that's what destroying them means.
I would rather they were sold, and the proceeds went to the WSSBC, myself.

[Gateholio]

Guns that are forfeited to the police/crown are almost always destroyed.

[300]

When we have nobody to fight against we turn around and start shooting our own country men. lol.
If all we have to deal with is a few dead rams after what we did to these people, I'd be pretty happy.
Better rams than our sons and brothers.

[DLP]

I think what you don't understand Burger is that what happened in the past affects generations and generations and you have to remember that when the children were taken away, that left a generation with no parenting skills and a generation that dealt with losing their children,religion,language,land etc by using alcohol or drugs.Also, the last residential school closed down in the nineties so that was not too long ago that this atrocity occured. Now to undo that will take awhile. Our belief is that it will take seven generations. Now if you think an apology by the prime minister is going to cure all wounds you are sadly mistaken.
I don't know how YOU are paying for this, if you mean taxes, then your tax money is being spent on far more frivolous things then to a few FN people. I also pay taxes and do not get any "handouts" as so many on this site seem to think. FN people don't ASK for ANYTHING other than what they were entitled to long ago, including hunting. If people still think FN's are getting "handouts" just drive through a couple of reserves and see if these "third world" looking places are receiving anything.

I generally agree and well said. those past issues will take a long time to heal. I am not FN but even i understand that being part of a stable family all around. It doesnt mean we tolerate anything from FN or any other group. It just means more understanding and different approaches are required.

[Jelvis]

Breaking News Flash -- "Breaking News Flash" -- Kamloops Daily News Reports -- First Only Native Court in Kamloops
---- Kamloops is announcing that it will follow one city in the lower mainland to have an all native court in Kamloops -----
A restoritive type
Jel .. This type will consider the things some on here have mentioned about the past effecting a persons personality now --

[The Dude]

Be interesting to know who enforces the punishment.


My impression is that it's the band. The emails I got from the COS were rather brief, LOL.
Nothing on the four Clinton sheep, COS are still asking for tips on that one.

Re: Natives paying taxes, etc, you might like this thread Edgar, it may relax you a little :D

www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?84619-Positive-Native-Experiences

[Wild one]

When we have nobody to fight against we turn around and start shooting our own country men. lol.
If all we have to deal with is a few dead rams after what we did to these people, I'd be pretty happy.
Better rams than our sons and brothers.


Yes but the ancestors of most of the people living in Canada now had nothing to do with it but still pay for it

[edgar11]

Yes but the ancestors of most of the people living in Canada now had nothing to do with it but still pay for it

How EXACTLY do YOU pay for IT wild one?

[Wild one]

How EXACTLY do YOU pay for IT wild one?

edgar11 I already know where you stand on FN's

Most money that FN's receive originally comes from tax payers and we are not talking just pocket change. Abuse and waste of fish/wildlife also has an effect.

Between having friends from multiple bands and another that takes on construction contracts on reserves throughout BC you get to learn a few things. There are good bands in BC and there are a good number that are a black eye to there own culture. I have no respect for bands that extort money from companies and government instead of taking the time to better them selves. I also have no respect for the ones that abuse the rights they are given with fish/wildlife only to waste. There is plenty more BS that goes on.

Most FN's complaining how they were wronged with there hand out were not around during the time all this happened. I have also found the FN's that take the effort to do something for them selves live a better life then the ones looking for handouts. With the benefits Fn's can receive for schooling and training can give them opportunities other Canadians would kill for.

Personally I did not have an easy life but I sucked it up and made something of my self. My ancestors were also wronged in there country yet they do not see a dime. If you do some research there are many cultures that went through hell

Feel free to pull the racist card because I know I judge men by there actions not there appearance so it don't mean a thing to me. The poor me card does not fly well here with any man

[Spy]

edgar11 I already know where you stand on FN's

Most money that FN's receive originally comes from tax payers and we are not talking just pocket change. Abuse and waste of fish/wildlife also has an effect.

Between having friends from multiple bands and another that takes on construction contracts on reserves throughout BC you get to learn a few things. There are good bands in BC and there are a good number that are a black eye to there own culture. I have no respect for bands that extort money from companies and government instead of taking the time to better them selves. I also have no respect for the ones that abuse the rights they are given with fish/wildlife only to waste. There is plenty more BS that goes on.

Most FN's complaining how they were wronged with there hand out were not around during the time all this happened. I have also found the FN's that take the effort to do something for them selves live a better life then the ones looking for handouts. With the benefits Fn's can receive for schooling and training can give them opportunities other Canadians would kill for.

Personally I did not have an easy life but I sucked it up and made something of my self. My ancestors were also wronged in there country yet they do not see a dime. If you do some research there are many cultures that went through hell

Feel free to pull the racist card because I know I judge men by there actions not there appearance so it don't mean a thing to me. The poor me card does not fly well here with any man

X2 I spent awhile last night writing the same things but ended up deleting it, as I did not have the energy for an argument ! My white forefathers were also wronged but sucked it up & got on with life ! My family was displaced & we had to move leaving everything behind to start again! You don't hear me bitching about it because I feel blessed to get a second chance in a country as great as Canada!You have to move on to get the monkey off your back ! Nobody has ever given me anything, I had to work hard for what I got ! Giving certain user groups special treatment over others leads to resentment & if not nipped in the bud will tear us apart !There are allot of hungry white children in Canada that are not eating today, you dont see them getting special treatment ! I am so sick of this native argument we have all being wronged get over it!
Most Canadians moved to Canada to get away from war,oppression & other atrocities, but have made a better life for themselves & family from nothing !
Equal rights for all Canadians !

[edgar11]

X2 I spent awhile last night writing the same things but ended up deleting it, as I did not have the energy for an argument ! My white forefathers were also wronged but sucked it up & got on with life ! My family was displaced & we had to move leaving everything behind to start again! You don't hear me bitching about it because I feel blessed to get a second chance in a country as great as Canada!You have to move on to get the monkey off your back ! Nobody has ever given me anything, I had to work hard for what I got ! Giving certain user groups special treatment over others leads to resentment & if not nipped in the bud will tear us apart !There are allot of hungry white children in Canada that are not eating today, you dont see them getting special treatment ! I am so sick of this native argument we have all being wronged get over it!
Most Canadians moved to Canada to get away from war,oppression & other atrocities, but have made a better life for themselves & family from nothing !
Equal rights for all Canadians !
So..... let me see here. So Spy if I take away your kids and put them in a school where they are going to be physically,mentally and sexually abused. Then I tell you that you cannot speak english anymore. And then I say that religion you are practicing will no longer happen and also, that 200 acre farm you have we are taking it and leaving you with a half an acre to live on. Are you going to "suck it up" or "get over it"?
You see your big misunderstanding here is that a lot of FN people have "got over it" and are successful and are totally self sufficient today. Yes there are a few that could not"get over it" and are stuck in drug abuse or alcoholism but the healing does not happen overnight. The Canadian government are the ones trying to UNDO their wrongdoings including the apology by the almighty Prime Minister, what a joke. So nobody is asking for your"handout" or your "pity" so stop trying to think that we need it or want it.

[Jelvis]

I don't think the governemt itself would stand for anyone calling out any race in B.C. for abusing tax dollars.
Ever cheated on a tax return or maybe dint put something down? Covered up something you did because it was wrong
You could call any race out for using and abusing the system, so why open season on First Nation People.

If I said you know east indians are using and some abusing our tax dollars it would be deleted right now.
If I said the Japanese were using and some abusing our tax dollars it would be stopped immediately
Everyone does it to some extent, all of us
So why not try talking about other races and how they abuse the system, we are all a human race..
can you think of some other race to talk about and not get this thread locked up tighter than a bulls ass in fly season.
Watch this will be locked now, cuz I mentioned East Indians and Japanese use and abuse the tax dollars too
-- this post will be modified or deleted and the thread locked because I mentioned other races than First Nations lol.
How about the Italians? The English? The Germans. Haha enjoy for a few seconds then realize what is being said.

[Whonnock Boy]

The Canadian government are the ones trying to UNDO their wrongdoings including the apology by the almighty Prime Minister, what a joke. So nobody is asking for your"handout" or your "pity" so stop trying to think that we need it or want it.


This statement pretty much sums it all up. Harper apologizes for the sins of others and it is not good enough. It will never be good enough. Nothing will ever be good enough.

[Jelvis]

You wouldn't talk like this about any other race, you focused on Indians.
and you wouldn't talk like this face to face or in a bar would you, so think about it b4 this thread is locked.
Jel .. It won't be enuff because you keep bringing it back up, try frogetting about it and mind your own business.

[edgar11]

This statement pretty much sums it all up. Harper apologizes for the sins of others and it is not good enough. It will never be good enough. Nothing will ever be good enough.

It amuses me when someone speaks in absoluteness in their ideas. Saying things like "Never" and "Ever". It speaks narrowmindedness all the way. A wise man once told me "there is no room for jealousy and hatred in this world only love and respect".

[Spy]

So nobody is asking for your"handout" or your "pity" so stop trying to think that we need it or want it.[/QUOTE]
So than stand up in mass & tell the government this & we can all get on with it ! But you wont because its easier to keep on bringing up the injustices of the past & taking the handouts! What happened to the first nations was horrible yes, but you are not alone, there are many other nations that suffered a similar or worse fate !
If you want to get into a pissing match, over who was worse done by we can !

[Spy]

It amuses me when someone speaks in absoluteness in their ideas. Saying things like "Never" and "Ever". It speaks narrowmindedness all the way. A wise man once told me "there is no room for jealousy and hatred in this world only love and respect".
Thats what we all want ! But this can only happen once you stop blaming the present for the past ! Nobody in todays age wants to see anybody suffer we all want to move on & stop paying for the sins of the past!

[coach]

You believe that, Jel? I think people are going to get upset anytime anybody commits an act like this and gets away with it because of race, religion, language, etc. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?72681-Four-poachers-who-shot-Roosevelt-Elk-let-off-because-of-trial-delays&highlight=poached

Shooting these sheep and leaving them to rot was disgusting. Good to see the perpetrators were caught and they were dealt with by the CO service and RCMP as well as the local band. Hopefully the outrage against this act from both outside and within the Lytton FN community will mean that similar instances won't occur anytime soon. The a original news article made it look as if no punishment was handed out and that the whole situation was "no big deal" as the sheep were killed by "hunters".

It only makes sense that any attempt to justify shooting these animals and leaving them to rot will meet with serious resistance from the hunting community. I agree with you - time to shut this one down.

[edgar11]

I sense hatred and anger in your messages Spy, sorry but I do not want to entertain an argument with you. Like I said before, we are dealing with these things our own way and do not need any help, especially from the government. Things are dealt with through our culture and spirituality and is really none of your business but I will tell you if it will give you a better understanding of FN people. I initially logged on to this site to share/learn hunting information but constantly run into threads where members throw little cheap shot statements regarding FN people. Like is this thread really have anything to do with big horn sheep anymore?

[Spy]

I sense hatred and anger in your messages Spy, sorry but I do not want to entertain an argument with you. Like I said before, we are dealing with these things our own way and do not need any help, especially from the government. Things are dealt with through our culture and spirituality and is really none of your business but I will tell you if it will give you a better understanding of FN people. I initially logged on to this site to share/learn hunting information but constantly run into threads where members throw little cheap shot statements regarding FN people. Like is this thread really have anything to do with big horn sheep anymore?
No anger or hatred against anyone here ! I have forgiven all those that have wronged me or my family & moved on to a much better place !I just want you to understand that you were not alone !

[Gateholio]

. Like is this thread really have anything to do with big horn sheep anymore?

Not really. Seems some people wanted to yell RACIST at those that were offended that the poachers got preferential treatment due to their race.

That effectively derailed the thread from what the focus should be- on the sheep poaching scumbags that wantonly wasted 3 bighorns, for no other reason other than because they could.

[MB_Boy]

I sense hatred and anger in your messages Spy, sorry but I do not want to entertain an argument with you. Like I said before, we are dealing with these things our own way and do not need any help, especially from the government. Things are dealt with through our culture and spirituality and is really none of your business but I will tell you if it will give you a better understanding of FN people. I initially logged on to this site to share/learn hunting information but constantly run into threads where members throw little cheap shot statements regarding FN people. Like is this thread really have anything to do with big horn sheep anymore?

Oh the irony in the convenience of that statement.:wink: :tongue:



Okay....that's my 'two cent heckle' for the day. :mrgreen:

[huntcoop]

Oh the irony in the convenience of that statement....

Isn't that just a beauty, I had started to reply but thought better of it as MY hunting season is now over and I didn't want to get banned.

[Wild one]

You wouldn't talk like this about any other race, you focused on Indians.
and you wouldn't talk like this face to face or in a bar would you, so think about it b4 this thread is locked.
Jel .. It won't be enuff because you keep bringing it back up, try frogetting about it and mind your own business.


The reason you see the focus on FN's is they are put into a political spotlight. There is no other race in Canada with the same political power or has exceptions to laws like FN's. I am on my second set of permits that need to be approved by FN's this year but no other race gets a say. Put any race in this position and you will get the same results. That is why!!

It may surprise you but there is a good number of people who have no problem speaking there mind face to face so put the tough guy act away

It is also hard to mind your own business when the other persons actions and decisions have an impact in your business

[Jelvis]

Tell the Jews to quit talking about the Holocost then, I bet you'll get the same answer.
It's brought up always, and it will be, so you hopefully won't forget what happened and won't see it again..
.. You think their going to stop talking about the past because you say forget about the past, I was not there, nor did I do it, it was Hitler, not me, so forget it chump and get on with your life.
It won't stop them and it won't stop the Indians either.
You wouldn't dare say that on here about the Jews because you know you wouldn't be very popular.
Jel .. Can you see the point or not? .. This post will put it over the cliff, because it's starting to make you nervous.
I'm going out for Christmas dinner now I expect it wil be locked when I get back ..
I hope Ernie ain't reading this lol. Truth you can't handle the truth .. Jack

[Wild one]

Tell the Jews to quit talking about the Holocost then, I bet you'll get the same answer.
It's brought up always, and it will be, so you hopefully won't forget what happened and won't see it again..
.. You think their going to stop talking about the past because you say forget about the past, I was not there, nor did I do it, it was Hitler, not me, so forget it chump and get on with your life.
It won't stop them and it won't stop the Indians either.
You wouldn't dare say that on here about the Jews because you know you wouldn't be very popular.
Jel .. Can you see the point or not? .. This post will put it over the cliff, because it's starting to make you nervous.
I'm going out for Christmas dinner now I expect it wil be locked when I get back ..
I hope Ernie ain't reading this lol. Truth you can't handle the truth .. Jack


To tell you the truth out of all the Jews I have met not 1 brought up the holocaust or said they were owed anything because of it. I would still voice my opinion to a Jew as well because it would make no difference to me.

You are grabbing at straws now and just trying to get the thread locked.

Have a good dinner

[burger]

edgar11 I already know where you stand on FN's

Most money that FN's receive originally comes from tax payers and we are not talking just pocket change. Abuse and waste of fish/wildlife also has an effect.

Between having friends from multiple bands and another that takes on construction contracts on reserves throughout BC you get to learn a few things. There are good bands in BC and there are a good number that are a black eye to there own culture. I have no respect for bands that extort money from companies and government instead of taking the time to better them selves. I also have no respect for the ones that abuse the rights they are given with fish/wildlife only to waste. There is plenty more BS that goes on.

Most FN's complaining how they were wronged with there hand out were not around during the time all this happened. I have also found the FN's that take the effort to do something for them selves live a better life then the ones looking for handouts. With the benefits Fn's can receive for schooling and training can give them opportunities other Canadians would kill for.

Personally I did not have an easy life but I sucked it up and made something of my self. My ancestors were also wronged in there country yet they do not see a dime. If you do some research there are many cultures that went through hell

Feel free to pull the racist card because I know I judge men by there actions not there appearance so it don't mean a thing to me. The poor me card does not fly well here with any man

Great response.