Hunting access/opportunities denied???

[kutenay]

This is a sensitive subject and I want to keep any discussion civil as the topic concerns us all and is, IMO, vital to our survival as hunters.

My question is, have any of you been denied hunting access by ANY Guide-Outfitters actions this season alone and, if so, who, when and where?

I have heard that another of the best G/O concessions in the N.E.B.C. region has been sold to an American and a buddy of mine was recently hunting near Ft. St. John and found large areas posted by foreign owners which denied residents entry.

I am TOTALLY against foreign involvement at any level in B.C. hunting, angling, wilderness parks or recreational facilities of any type, so, before lobbying government, I would like to gather some experience-based info. on this from anyone here.

I think that we B.C. residents are losing our hunting to wealthy foreigners, primarily Americans and we need to stop this process from destroying OUR rights to OUR resources.

[Seth]

I couldn't agree more. I've yet to have any negative experience like you described but it would be just like our government to sell everything off for a quick buck and then in hind sight realize what would have been in our better interest.

[J_T]

I'd rather have our government sell a Guide Outfitter concession to an honest hunting foreign invester than an anti-hunting animal rights group.

Some years ago my father had an altercation with a guide outfitter. The end result was the guide lost his license.

JT

[GoatGuy]

Kut,

Was it reported? CO will have something to say and the folks in Victoria will have even more to say about that.

[Ride]

Last i checked, guide outfitters do not own the land they are PRIVELIGED to guide on, hence they are not allowed to block access to the land. It remains crown land and they do not own it.

[Deaddog]

I have hunted close to outfitters main camps, ran into them in the bush and even had our party stay in one of their camps when they ran into trouble, other than one fellow not being overly friendly when he found us in the spot he wished to hunt (understandable) I have had no problems with outfitters, rather the opposite, as long as I have approached them in a reasonable manner I have been treated the same. A few years ago on a fannin/dall sheep hunt I actually called the outfitter to let him know we were coming in to hunt by his main sheep camp, he let me pick the side of the range we wanted to hunt and he stuck to the other side, he stuck to the deal and was more than reasonable FYI DD

[WoodOx]

Maybe some confusion on this topic - is it possible that a foreigner purchased a large tract of land, and in such cut off any entrace? Only reason I ask is b/c this is the only way one can be denied access to property - if it is private.

[kutenay]

I want to make it very clear that this is NOT about Guide-Outfitters, as such, it is only to get information due to the number of rumours I keep hearing and I am not "out to get" ANYONE.

However, I am opposed to any non-Canadian hunting in B.C. and this has been discussed here several times, so, I won't repeat my philosophy now.

I think that we ARE losing OUR rights and I want solid information with which to lobby government(s) to try to reverse this trend. So far, I have only hearsay and this is worthless in respect of influencing "the powers that be".

I am a hardline Canadian nationalist/nativist and I make NO bones about it!

[willyqbc]

Let me make this VERY, VERY clear......no guide can keep you out of his hunting area unless they own the land. A guiding area only allows them the priveledge that no one else may guide in that area. It is still crown land and you have every right to be there. We went through this years ago with a moose guide here. He put up a gate...the co's told us to bust off the lock and go ahead, he put cement blocks in the road.....we drug em into the ditch, he dug up the road....we cut a road around (with permission from the ministry). With only a two week window on moose back then, we had to do these things because the CO's were so busy they couldn't find the time to go and deal with him but were very clear with us that as soon as they had time they would deal with him and that he could not under any circumstances deny us access. You should report these guys to the CO's, then go get deed maps for the area that show its not private land. With those in hand head out to the area and hunt away, if they have chains or gates notify the CO's and RCMP that you are going to cut the locks, before you do it, this covers your ass when the guide phones in a complaint. If they give you any grief show then the deed maps and inform them the CO's have been notified....then tell them to PISS OFF!

Chris

[BCLongshot]

As far as I know you have 2 be a resident (Canada) to be hold a License but you can own property. Yes G/O can't deny you entry into crown land.

[Rainwater]

Second hand information is just that, get it first hand or have the person involved contact the right authorities. We have had very few problems with guide outfitters. Some of the problems lie within the hunting ranks themselves. The same courtesy we afford each other when in the bush should be given to guide outfitters. All to often I here guys spouting off about guides being in an area. They merrily go right by the guides or into areas they fully well know are being hunted by guides. Just because they are non-residents doesn't mean we should not follow the unwritten rules of the hunt.

[boxhitch]

I'm getting a feeling of deja vu here. I think this same discussion occured a while ago, maybe on a different site too, and nothing concrete came of it then, either. Maybe the rumours are only that, and some sour grapes thrown in for flavor ??
As long as Canadian laws allow for foreign ownership of lands, businesses, investments, resource leases, etc., it will happen.

[hoochie]

I live in Abbotsford, and while attempting to locate migratory birds on farmers fields.. I noticed a sign " no trespassing...." My wife called a farmer friend of hers and found out that the guys from another city ( Langley?) bought the rights to hunt on the land ( 600 acres or so) and that all non members to the Langley rod and gun club are to be denied the opportunity to hunt the land.
I was a little pissed off by that.. but other than that, no-one has denied me any access to any place where deer etc would be hunted.

[hoochie]

As long as Canadian laws allow for foreign ownership of lands, businesses, investments, resource leases, etc., it will happen.

I agree with you fully.

[Krico]

Never had a problem with any GO. If it happens he will be warned that any further confrontation will lead to me announcing to the entire hunting community how plentiful game is in his area along with details on how to get in to the areas he's trying to keep me out of. I will treat them with respect until such time that I feel someone is acting unethically or illegally, then all bets are off...

[oldtimer]

I have not had a problem with any G/O up like WillyQ did that year but I know it happened but don't recall it being a problem later. Hoochie if you see land posted as NO HUNTING be aware that even the land owner Cannot hunt on that land. Only if it is posted as no trespassing can it be hunted by the owner or his guests. I have never heard of buying the rights to hunt on private land, can you explain this in more detail.

[boxhitch]

I have never heard of buying the rights to hunt on private land, can you explain this in more detail.
It happens lots. person or persons approach a landowner, ask for exclusive permission to hunt/drive/whatever, offer up some compensation, tax free, and voila, a private hunting reserve. All regulations are followed, of course :lol: . Prices vary upon demand.

[The Hermit]

I once had an assistant guide tell me that I was trespassing... I told him that I knew it was crown land and that I had a perfect right to hunt there. I then called the Minstry of Environment and was told that I was totally correct. G/O can not stop anyone from hunting crown land, period. If someone bought the land they then have a right to forbid hunting.

[1/2 slam]

Sorry Oldtimer you are VERY wrong about the owner not being able to hunt his own land if he posts it "NO Hunting". That is a falacy that I've heard from more than one person. It's his and he can hunt it.

[Franko Manini]

We've got all kinds of problems with TimberWest, Weyerhouser, and Island Timer Lands here on southern Vancouver Island. The problem it that they do own the land, and therefore can deny access.

The flip side of it is that those companies were given the land in 1999 by the Glen Clark government as a land concession after prime logging areas were turned into parkland (i.e. Carmanah Valley). It's more than a million hectares of forestry land in total, about 25% of the total landmass of Vancouver Island.

Some on this board would have you believe that this land was privately held since 1884 when the BC Government of the day signed its use over the the E&N Railway Company in exchange for them building the railway. However, during this time, the land was held in public trusts, and it's natural resoruces were managed under timber farm liscences and subject to public scrutiny.

[kutenay]

THIS is part of what I am trying to get at here, sour grapes, whatever that means, has nothing to do with it, I am concerned about OUR rights and heritage.

I find it VERY interesting that, Glen Clarke, GAVE B.C. lands to foreign owners, especially Americans. This is due to the rhetoric that every No Democracy Pinko politician has spewed ever since I can remember; the sanctimonious bleating about "the people" seems to be mostly BS....my, what a surprise.........

When will we Canadians learn to stand-up for OUR rights and OUR heritage; how many more resource-territorial "give-aways" must we accept before OUR hunting is gone and only wealthy foreigners can hunt in B.C.?

I am not interested in rumours, I am trying to gather actual facts on this problem.

[oldtimer]

1/2 slam. I got my info from a law enforcement officer so I guess he is wrong too.

[1/2 slam]

Oldtimer...yes he is wrong...for lack of a better term this is an old wives tale.

There are too many laws out there for a LEO to know them all. If you doubt that then look at some of the posts on this site concerning the gun registry. People here have been checked and the officers were wrong with their interpritation of the laws concerning the registry.

Where would you find this regulation? The Tresspass Act of BC? I looked, can't see it. How about the Wildlife Act of BC? Looked can't find it. The hunting regulations? Same again can't see it.

Now if you can find this printed in statute please let us know where to find it. I have no problems admitting when I'm wrong.

I'm not trying to flame ANYONE here, but, I hate when someone says "I heard it's illegal too...." We all have acces to the internet here and a few minutes of reaserch can usually answer the question. If that doesn't answer the question phone the wildlife office (Or whatever office) and ask about it. AND ask for the act and section number. Staff on the phone may be wrong. If they provide an Act and section number look it up.

The reason this is a sore point with me is there is a lot of false information floating around out there. In fact some complete BS.

[Gateholio]

Oldtimer...yes he is wrong...for lack of a better term this is an old wives tale.

There are too many laws out there for a LEO to know them all. If you doubt that then look at some of the posts on this site concerning the gun registry. People here have been checked and the officers were wrong with their interpritation of the laws concerning the registry.

Where would you find this regulation? The Tresspass Act of BC? I looked, can't see it. How about the Wildlife Act of BC? Looked can't find it. The hunting regulations? Same again can't see it.

Now if you can find this printed in statute please let us know where to find it. I have no problems admitting when I'm wrong.

I'm not trying to flame ANYONE here, but, I hate when someone says "I heard it's illegal too...." We all have acces to the internet here and a few minutes of reaserch can usually answer the question. If that doesn't answer the question phone the wildlife office (Or whatever office) and ask about it. AND ask for the act and section number. Staff on the phone may be wrong. If they provide an Act and section number look it up.

The reason this is a sore point with me is there is a lot of false information floating around out there. In fact some complete BS.

Hmmm....sounds familiar!!:lol::lol:

Oldtimer- I have heard of that law. But in other provinces and states- never BC.8-)

[chevy]

Guides cannot stop you from hunting anywhere near or around the province and next time it happens kick the shi# out of them and tell them to get the hell out of b.c and don't come back because they are not welcome here EVER especially for hunting purposes plus most of them american dicks have good if not better hunting their than we do here so yeah they should stay the hell out and leave the game in b.c to us!!!!!!

[chevy]

It is also funny you mention stuff about guides because today me and my dad went to go do some mulie hunting about 2 miles from an outfitters camp, and just by coincedence we stumbled upon a 3 spike mulie buck that had been shot and left because some jack ass doesn't know how to count ,in the kootenays here the mulie have to be 4 spike or better and this one is a perfect 3x3 that any hunter could have counted and known it was a 3 spike but some guys just don't get it they just see antlers and shoot!!! I took some pics of it but im not gonna post them because i had already e-mailed them to the C/O's up here and hopefully they can try to get to the bottom of this,crap like that is giving us hunters you know the smart ones a bad name but like i say it was not too far from the outfitters cabin and it looks like it may be 1 or 2 days old with a bullet hole in it's back!!!!!!!!!!!!! I say we find the guy who did it and shoot him in the ass!

[kutenay]

Geez, there are those who say that "I" am a feisty character!!! Go get 'em chevy, I despise anyone who would do what you describe.