Cull?...or more hunter participation?

[scoutlt1]

Just curious what people on here think.
Assuming a wolf/predator cull is necessary in an area, is it better to have a cull by the "government"?, or would it be better to make the season longer and with a higher bag limit?, or pay a royalty per animal to the hunter?
I like the idea of making it easier, maybe even providing an incentive, for hunters to get out there and take care of some of these predators.
I looked to see if this has been discussed before, but couldn't find a thread specifically on this topic...(not to say one isn't on here)
Any thoughts?

[fowl language]

the gov,t has one huge advantage over us,they have the ability to use a helicopter..i believe in most areas the bag limit and hunting times are about to be extended considerably. with a mild winter, it is thought that the wolf pop. might dip somewhat and hunter availibility should increase as they are moving around more looking for food....fowl

[Drillbit]

Joe Ave hunter won't dent the wolf population with bullets. They've already increased bag limits and seasons, but nobody was ever limiting out anyways.
Need a Gov chopper to get big results.

Trapping is probably the most effective for the average guy, but it take's a lot of time and $$ that the average guy won't stick with. No big rewards. The juice, has to be worth the squeeze.

[elkdom]

the gov,t has one huge advantage over us,they have the ability to use a helicopter..i believe in most areas the bag limit and hunting times are about to be extended considerably. with a mild winter, it is thought that the wolf pop. might dip somewhat and hunter availibility should increase as they are moving around more looking for food....fowl

the wolves do the MAJORITY of their work/hunting at night !,

sport hunters have very little chance for shooting/killing wolves without a large bait attractant(whole beef animal,moose,or large elk)this will be GONE in 1 or 2 nights at most !,and they move on quickly

sport HUNTERS will NEVER be an answer to managed predator control !

Helicopters and shooting from the air is sporadic at best, and OBSCENELY expensive,

the BEST method is an ongoing wolf poison program, and that will not happen here,,,

[silvicon]

The only two options are poison and airial assault!
Nimble helicopters such as the H 500 or 600 with two good shooters each with semi autos,
flying on grids, several helicopters per valley to get good coverage.
Hunting does nothing to reduce wolf populations!

[RiverOtter]

Hunters ain't gonna do it, that is a fact.

Poison, trapping and aerial gunning are gonna yield the best results, but depending where the wolves are hanging out, these options can be limited as well.

[BearStump]

I beleive that hunters could make a dent if motivated. Most guys I know dont shoot a wolf cuz they are legally obligated to "pack out all edible portions" Who the hell wants dog meat? and most wouldnt want the hide either. I know that my wife would never allow a stuffed dog in this house.

So changing a couple rules of the game would greatly increase the number of hunters that would take a wolf if they come across it.

let us kill 'em and leave 'em after some pictures. or offer a small bounty on hides (30 or 40 bucks) For 30 bucks I'd pack one out and bring it in.

[scoutlt1]

Thanks for the responses....I'd have to agree.
Too bad there isn't a way to control predators without having to pay for choppers etc.
As much as I wish I didn't live in the LML and had the opportunity to hunt more, I wonder why there is a 3 wolf limit in most areas for example? Are guys limiting out and not able to kill more and should the limit be raised?? or is 3 actually pretty liberal?
I know that when I see the compulsary reporting in R2 I right away wonder if it's worth the hassle.
BUt I can see everyones point as far as it not being likely that sport hunters won't ever be able to make much of an impact....

[elkdom]

I beleive that hunters could make a dent if motivated. Most guys I know dont shoot a wolf cuz they are legally obligated to "pack out all edible portions" Who the hell wants dog meat? and most wouldnt want the hide either. I know that my wife would never allow a stuffed dog in this house.

So changing a couple rules of the game would greatly increase the number of hunters that would take a wolf if they come across it.

let us kill 'em and leave 'em after some pictures. or offer a small bounty on hides (30 or 40 bucks) For 30 bucks I'd pack one out and bring it in.

lmao,, yu do not have to remove edible portions of wolves or yoties, just the hide by regulation, and you toss that once you have it home, if you wish, and who the hell cares ?? ,,,lol

[elkdom]

Thanks for the responses....I'd have to agree.
Too bad there isn't a way to control predators without having to pay for choppers etc.
As much as I wish I didn't live in the LML and had the opportunity to hunt more, I wonder why there is a 3 wolf limit in most areas for example? Are guys limiting out and not able to kill more and should the limit be raised?? or is 3 actually pretty liberal?
I know that when I see the compulsary reporting in R2 I right away wonder if it's worth the hassle.
BUt I can see everyones point as far as it not being likely that sport hunters won't ever be able to make much of an impact....

a limit of 3 is very liberal,

90% of resident hunters have never seen a wolf in the wild,

and 98% will never or have never killed one !:?

[scoutlt1]

a limit of 3 is very liberal,

90% of resident hunters have never seen a wolf in the wild,

and 98% will never or have never killed one !:?

I would have to agree with your post....not your other one as far as having to take the hide and then throwing it out...that to me makes it less appealing to take a wolf. i have no problem skinning one etc....but knowing I need to do that, and keep it with me until I get home only adds to the "hassle"
So with all the hunters on here worried about predators, do we not have a responsibility to take care of this problem? Or do we hope the government takes care of it?
I know predator hunting, especially wolf hunting is tough...I just wish there was a way to get more guys out there...guys like me.
I guess I better stop talking about it and go do my part! lol

[rcar]

the wolves do the MAJORITY of their work/hunting at night !,

sport hunters have very little chance for shooting/killing wolves without a large bait attractant(whole beef animal,moose,or large elk)this will be GONE in 1 or 2 nights at most !,and they move on quickly

sport HUNTERS will NEVER be an answer to managed predator control !

Helicopters and shooting from the air is sporadic at best, and OBSCENELY expensive,

the BEST method is an ongoing wolf poison program, and that will not happen here,,,

I totally agree with the hunter and helicopter comment....bang on.

The problem with poison, although VERY effective is that it is indiscriminate and can do irreversible damage to "in danger" species like badgers & wolverines in many areas so not a viable option here. Trapping is a very decent alternative in my mind. I don't know much on the value of hides but maybe the gov't could add a significant value to the hides to make it more worthwhile for the trappers??

[XMD70]

Trapping could be less expensive than helicopter time. Trouble is that there's very few trappers with the expertise to catch wolves consistently. Unless the trapper is able to catch the alpha couple in a pack, picking off the occasional beta wolf has little effect. The value of the furs is too low for a trapper to dedicate much time to pursuit of wolves,and the Government is unwilling to pay a supplement. Perhaps if the ranchers who are losing livestock to wolf predation could afford to sweeten the pot, a few dedicated wolf trappers might take up the cause. Still cheaper than choppers.

[olharley guy]

the wolves do the MAJORITY of their work/hunting at night !,

sport hunters have very little chance for shooting/killing wolves without a large bait attractant(whole beef animal,moose,or large elk)this will be GONE in 1 or 2 nights at most !,and they move on quickly

sport HUNTERS will NEVER be an answer to managed predator control !

Helicopters and shooting from the air is sporadic at best, and OBSCENELY expensive,

the BEST method is an ongoing wolf poison program, and that will not happen here,,,


Howdy, basically all true-another year will be gone and nothing but discussions between us and the gov't people.

The best time for aircraft hunting is February and early April - mating season and most will be found on lakes and rivers where a lot of the game hangs out eating willows etc.

Cost effective measures best suited for this type of hunting is to use a smaller aircraft like a Supercub on skis (for pilots safety) -which is fairly cheap to operate - fly specified areas looking for tracks and kills which are pretty easy to spot from the air - even with a light snow falling.

Then call for a helicopter to take care of business -one good shooter with 00 buck does the trick. The Cub pilot probably could do a fair job but we all know that would be illegal.

This would be a great cost savings for any air program that the Fish and Wildlife could participate in if they would just stop the round table discussions every year without someone making a decision and would definately save a lot of moose, deer, sheep, cariboo and cattle from being killed.

Just my thoughts and I know this method works. Later

[RiverOtter]

Perhaps if the ranchers who are losing livestock to wolf predation could afford to sweeten the pot, a few dedicated wolf trappers might take up the cause. Still cheaper than choppers.

So after the farmer takes a hit from livestock losses due to wolf predation, he's got money kicking around to pay out bounties......?

[BearStump]

lmao,, yu do not have to remove edible portions of wolves or yoties, just the hide by regulation, and you toss that once you have it home, if you wish, and who the hell cares ?? ,,,lol

learn something new every day.

[Wild one]

The reason you don't have more trappers trapping wolves is the lack of available trap lines. This is because the vacant traplines have not been auctioned of in years. I have posted it before show the your MLA and MOE you want to see trappers back on the lines if you want wolves trapped. There are lots of trappers that would love to be out on a line and trap a few wolves but without being able to access a line they can't

[gcreek]

Regardless of govt BS it is your duty to yourself and your fellow hunters to shoot at and hopefully kill every wolf you see. A very small % are worth skinning other than for a personal rug as the value of a poor quality hide is less than what it takes to skin and stretch a wolf properly.
Every wolf killed is the equivalent of 8 to 10 moose left for next year. I see the "experts" are still touting that if all the moose and deer are killed off the wolves will die and the cariboo will be saved. That idea will really help the LEH and GOS availabilities Huh?

If hunters and ranchers killed every wolf we saw, we would never get more than 10%, BUT... every one counts.

Shoot the SOBs and walk away unless you really want to save the hide.

Bearstump, where did you get the idea there was an edible portion of a wild canine? LOL

[The Dude]

Compound 1080 (Sodium Flouroacetate) poisoning isn't a valid option for two reasons:
1) Bycatch (Wolverines, Fishers, Martens, weasels, Eagles, Hawks, magpies, ravens, Bobcats, bears, and threatened badgers), and
2) Compound 1080, and its well-documented slow, awful death are a Public Relations nightmare, to say nothing of an awful death for many many animals, both those targeted and others. This could, and would, negatively impact hunting across all species.

Helicopters aren't an option unless it could be done in absolute secrecy, which would be hard to guarantee. If the Bunny Huggers got one whiff of a program like this, all hell would break loose, and you know it. Get some Apaches with miniguns to fligh at night with FLIR and IR HUDS, and you might do it. Damn, I'd fly front seat on that run!

One possible approach would be to:
A) Make traplines more accessible (I didn't know they were hard to get until the above post)
B) Make Trapper licensing and training more accessible, and cheap, or free to take. I was signed up to take a course in Wolf Snaring in 100 Mile, but left the province before I could go. The fee was $50 for a one-day course, refunded $25 if you showed up! lol Lunch included.
C) Financial Incentive. have a program, sub rosa, that either pays a bounty, or doubles or triples the price at auction paid to a trapper. You got paid 75$ for that Wolf skin? Here's $150 more. Stamp.
Now go buy some gas for your sled and get some more. THAT would also have to be kept discreet. It's a different world, folks. Look up "wolf poison", and see how many Bunny Hugger Blogs you get.
If anyone thinks this is only about predator control, and not a public relations tar pit, then you're fooling yourself. This isn't the Wild West anymore.

[Drillbit]

Regardless of govt BS it is your duty to yourself and your fellow hunters to shoot at and hopefully kill every wolf you see.

Exactly.....

[The Dude]

Also, tax rebates on gas consumed while trapping, and/or, the privilege of using marked gas in sleds, quads and trucks used whille actively trapping.

[The Dude]

I've been hunting about 30 years. I've seen one huge wolf in Sault St Marie, and one on Baldy, flying across the road like he was shot out of a cannon.
I have never had the crosshairs on a wolf.
Hunters contribution can only be negligible, at best. It's not a control factor.

[steel_ram]

A small "harvest" would more likely "improve" the wolf population maintaining a sustainable high population, just like we attempt for ungulates. That would be humans again meddling with nature for our own short term benefit, and guess what, we usually screw it up.
The population needs to be brought down to next to (but not) nothing. If we do it we will again cause great unstability, if we allow it to happen on it's own the cycle will roll. The only concern is, have the other species at risk been brought to the point, by us, that they are too fragile to survive the rollercoaster ride.

[Wild one]

Compound 1080 (Sodium Flouroacetate) poisoning isn't a valid option for two reasons:
1) Bycatch (Wolverines, Fishers, Martens, weasels, Eagles, Hawks, magpies, ravens, Bobcats, bears, and threatened badgers), and
2) Compound 1080, and its well-documented slow, awful death are a Public Relations nightmare, to say nothing of an awful death for many many animals, both those targeted and others. This could, and would, negatively impact hunting across all species.

Helicopters aren't an option unless it could be done in absolute secrecy, which would be hard to guarantee. If the Bunny Huggers got one whiff of a program like this, all hell would break loose, and you know it. Get some Apaches with miniguns to fligh at night with FLIR and IR HUDS, and you might do it. Damn, I'd fly front seat on that run!

One possible approach would be to:
A) Make traplines more accessible (I didn't know they were hard to get until the above post)
B) Make Trapper licensing and training more accessible, and cheap, or free to take. I was signed up to take a course in Wolf Snaring in 100 Mile, but left the province before I could go. The fee was $50 for a one-day course, refunded $25 if you showed up! lol Lunch included.
C) Financial Incentive. have a program, sub rosa, that either pays a bounty, or doubles or triples the price at auction paid to a trapper. You got paid 75$ for that Wolf skin? Here's $150 more. Stamp.
Now go buy some gas for your sled and get some more. THAT would also have to be kept discreet. It's a different world, folks. Look up "wolf poison", and see how many Bunny Hugger Blogs you get.
If anyone thinks this is only about predator control, and not a public relations tar pit, then you're fooling yourself. This isn't the Wild West anymore.

The lack of available lines is the biggest problem for trapping. There are at least 30 trappers in BC I know looking for lines and probably just as many that have taken the course but have given up because of the years they have been trying to get a line without success. The fact that there are more traplines in BC than licensed trappers this should not be a problem. This problem is do to multiple reasons vacant lines not being auctioned off, People buying lines just for the rights to have a cabin and not trapping(this is against the regs but it has not been enforced), and FN nation treaties are just a few. Most of these problems are do to the government not enforcing their own regs and basically ignoring there duties when it comes to trapping.

The BCTA and some if not all of the regions trapping locals are trying to address this problem but the more support given the better

Till this problem is taken care of it is going to be very difficult to get an effective amount of help from trapper when it comes to wolves

You mentioned a bounty I know there was one last trapping season that could be collected by trappers that were members of the BCTA and the trappers that could take advantage of it did.

[BearStump]

Bearstump, where did you get the idea there was an edible portion of a wild canine? LOL


I guess I just never really put much thought into it. I thought that G-bears were the only species that you didn't have to pack the meat out. Oh well, Glad I never tried a wolf steak. LOL

[The Dude]

The lack of available lines is the biggest problem for trapping. There are at least 30 trappers in BC I know looking for lines and probably just as many that have taken the course but have given up because of the years they have been trying to get a line without success. The fact that there are more traplines in BC than licensed trappers this should not be a problem. This problem is do to multiple reasons vacant lines not being auctioned off, People buying lines just for the rights to have a cabin and not trapping(this is against the regs but it has not been enforced), and FN nation treaties are just a few. Most of these problems are do to the government not enforcing their own regs and basically ignoring there duties when it comes to trapping.

The BCTA and some if not all of the regions trapping locals are trying to address this problem but the more support given the better

Till this problem is taken care of it is going to be very difficult to get an effective amount of help from trapper when it comes to wolves

You mentioned a bounty I know there was one last trapping season that could be collected by trappers that were members of the BCTA and the trappers that could take advantage of it did.

Very informative post, thanks. Can't the BCTA contact the regional Bio's and get things moving? I mean, Bio's want wolves knocked down, Trappers do 20x what hunters do....simple math, right? If I had my license, and was looking for a trapline and couldn't get one, I'd be emailing my ass off.

[GoatGuy]

Compound 1080 (Sodium Flouroacetate) poisoning isn't a valid option for two reasons:
1) Bycatch (Wolverines, Fishers, Martens, weasels, Eagles, Hawks, magpies, ravens, Bobcats, bears, and threatened badgers), and
2) Compound 1080, and its well-documented slow, awful death are a Public Relations nightmare, to say nothing of an awful death for many many animals, both those targeted and others. This could, and would, negatively impact hunting across all species.

Helicopters aren't an option unless it could be done in absolute secrecy, which would be hard to guarantee. If the Bunny Huggers got one whiff of a program like this, all hell would break loose, and you know it. Get some Apaches with miniguns to fligh at night with FLIR and IR HUDS, and you might do it. Damn, I'd fly front seat on that run!

One possible approach would be to:
A) Make traplines more accessible (I didn't know they were hard to get until the above post)
B) Make Trapper licensing and training more accessible, and cheap, or free to take. I was signed up to take a course in Wolf Snaring in 100 Mile, but left the province before I could go. The fee was $50 for a one-day course, refunded $25 if you showed up! lol Lunch included.
C) Financial Incentive. have a program, sub rosa, that either pays a bounty, or doubles or triples the price at auction paid to a trapper. You got paid 75$ for that Wolf skin? Here's $150 more. Stamp.
Now go buy some gas for your sled and get some more. THAT would also have to be kept discreet. It's a different world, folks. Look up "wolf poison", and see how many Bunny Hugger Blogs you get.
If anyone thinks this is only about predator control, and not a public relations tar pit, then you're fooling yourself. This isn't the Wild West anymore.

1080 is exclusive to dogs, it does not kill other species. It is the best form of poison if wolf reduction is the goal.

Strychnine does and it moves through the food chain killing most everything that comes in contact with it. Alberta has been using strychnine for a few years now and it works. There are ways to mitigate its effect on non-target species.

Aerial works well and they've also been doing that in Alberta for a few years.

Trapping and hunting won't do it; it's been shown dozens and dozens of times. The social license to reduce wolf populations depends on conservationists' approach and the value we place on certain species. You will notice that the 'anti' crowd makes money on wolves and grizzly bears. They don't make money on endangered populations of Caribou and species such as the VI marmot. If hunters had the smarts to really start looking at some of these species and populations that are teetering in the balance and really got behind them we would see predator management. The tough thing is we seem to have a hard time moving in the opposite direction of the hook and bullet stigma that's been attached to hunters.

So, it's a social and political balancing act. If hunters, ranchers and FN were to get behind managing for healthy wildlife populations you would end up with sound wildlife management.

[GoatGuy]

Very informative post, thanks. Can't the BCTA contact the regional Bio's and get things moving? I mean, Bio's want wolves knocked down, Trappers do 20x what hunters do....simple math, right? If I had my license, and was looking for a trapline and couldn't get one, I'd be emailing my ass off.

Trapping is not a priority. Capacity for administrative functions have been reduced to a point where employees have to pick which pieces of paper they'll move. There is a large amount of consultation with FN involved in selling a trapline nowadays for several reasons, not the least of which is treaty negotiation.

In a nutshell transferring trapping licenses is not a priority for government.

If you want to change the priority you're going to have to write to your MLA and the Premier and you're going to need a couple thousand other people to do it as well.

[The Dude]

1080 is exclusive to dogs, it does not kill other species. It is the best form of poison if wolf reduction is the goal.

Strychnine does and it moves through the food chain killing most everything that comes in contact with it. Alberta has been using strychnine for a few years now and it works. There are ways to mitigate its effect on non-target species.

Aerial works well and they've also been doing that in Alberta for a few years.

Trapping and hunting won't do it; it's been shown dozens and dozens of times. The social license to reduce wolf populations depends on conservationists' approach and the value we place on certain species. You will notice that the 'anti' crowd makes money on wolves and grizzly bears. They don't make money on endangered populations of Caribou and species such as the VI marmot. If hunters had the smarts to really start looking at some of these species and populations that are teetering in the balance and really got behind them we would see predator management. The tough thing is we seem to have a hard time moving in the opposite direction of the hook and bullet stigma that's been attached to hunters.

So, it's a social and political balancing act. If hunters, ranchers and FN were to get behind managing for healthy wildlife populations you would end up with sound wildlife management.


1080 is absolutely not exclusive to dogs. Do your homework. It's very effective on Canines and felines, less effective, though still potentially lethal on other carnivores, and least effective on birds.

[GoatGuy]

1080 is absolutely not exclusive to dogs. Do your homework. It's very effective on Canines and felines, less effective, though still potentially lethal on other carnivores, and least effective on birds.

The homework is done. There a couple dozen papers on it, not google search stuff however.

[The Dude]

So anything on the internet is bogus?
That makes all your posts automatically invalid.
Check and Mate.

[elkdom]

The lack of available lines is the biggest problem for trapping. There are at least 30 trappers in BC I know looking for lines and probably just as many that have taken the course but have given up because of the years they have been trying to get a line without success. The fact that there are more traplines in BC than licensed trappers this should not be a problem. This problem is do to multiple reasons vacant lines not being auctioned off, People buying lines just for the rights to have a cabin and not trapping(this is against the regs but it has not been enforced), and FN nation treaties are just a few. Most of these problems are do to the government not enforcing their own regs and basically ignoring there duties when it comes to trapping.

The BCTA and some if not all of the regions trapping locals are trying to address this problem but the more support given the better

Till this problem is taken care of it is going to be very difficult to get an effective amount of help from trapper when it comes to wolves

You mentioned a bounty I know there was one last trapping season that could be collected by trappers that were members of the BCTA and the trappers that could take advantage of it did.

there dozens of dormant trap-lines in NE BC, and many of them haven't been trapped in many years, and may be many years before anyone bothers,

EVERY Year,,HUGE money IS paid to the owners of the trap-lines by the O&Gas industry for "Disturbance Concessions" some I know of as high as $25,000 per year,,,

and consider an entire winter, several months hard work, how much work and financial investment on that same trap-line?
just to maintain trails,cabins off road machines,and equipment,
in order to harvest/trap some fur and risk what PROFIT was earned from O&Gas Disturbance Concession ???

fur trapping may have some "romantic illusions" for some ?:?
but in reality it is a lifestyle and ONLY if you do not have to depend on the Trap-line for a living !

at this time in NE BC the Cattle Ranchers Association is paying $100 per dead wolf !

which is a really piss poor return for your efforts,costs to find and kill a wolf ?
considering the average laborer here in NE BC earns about $6000 per month !:-|

[The Dude]

there dozens of dormant trap-lines in NE BC, and many of them haven't been trapped in many years, and may be many years before anyone bothers,

EVERY Year,,HUGE money IS paid to the owners of the trap-lines by the O&Gas industry for "Disturbance Concessions" some I know of as high as $25,000 per year,,,

and consider an entire winter, several months hard work, how much work and financial investment on that same trap-line?
just to maintain trails,cabins off road machines,and equipment,
in order to harvest/trap some fur and risk what PROFIT was earned from O&Gas Disturbance Concession ???

fur trapping may have some "romantic illusions" for some ?:?
but in reality it is a lifestyle and ONLY if you do not have to depend on the Trap-line for a living !

at this time in NE BC the Cattle Ranchers Association is paying $100 per dead wolf !

which is a really piss poor return for your efforts,costs to find and kill a wolf ?
considering the average laborer here in NE BC earns about $6000 per month !:-|

Damn straight. Money talks, bullshit walks.

[Wild one]

Very informative post, thanks. Can't the BCTA contact the regional Bio's and get things moving? I mean, Bio's want wolves knocked down, Trappers do 20x what hunters do....simple math, right? If I had my license, and was looking for a trapline and couldn't get one, I'd be emailing my ass off.

As of last year the process of trying to get lines back in the hands of trappers started. Meetings with more than just Bio's are taking place. The trapping local I belong to just had our first meeting with one gov official and he was shocked to see the numbers of trappers who want this problem addressed in our region alone. We have his support already and are now working with him to speed the process along. We are also working at getting his higher ups involved because at this time the interest in trapping is being under estimated.

Goatguy

You say trapping is not effective yet do you know how many active trappers there are on trapping lines? Odds are you don't because it has already been proven the government records are not even close to being correct by trappers already. The number of trappers actually trapping lines is A LOT lower than gov records. I will agree trapping will not make a drastic decrease to wolf population but it will help lower or at least stabilize the numbers. You can at least agree that it is a lot more effective than measures being taken at this time.

You are correct that at this time the gov has pushed trapping a side but with fur prices on the rise, trappers are starting to getting organized, and what is being asked for is already gov policy not asking to change policies it is just a matter of time. I know first hand on what is going on from both sides and at this time the only thing the gov has as a defence is FN(some bands have already been proven to have no interest in trapping) other than that they have been caught with there pants down not doing their job.

Considering the value of the traplines($500 is min bid at auction but there are lines that go for over $100,000 )sitting around unused it would be a big help with funding. This does not include the money trappers put into the economy from running lines, traps. Fuel, building supplies for cabins, bait, and more. Honestly it would only be to their benefit to have these lines going it is just that people need to show that the interest is there and unfortunately trapper have being stay out of the public eye even more than hunter.

[elkdom]

Howdy, basically all true-another year will be gone and nothing but discussions between us and the gov't people.

The best time for aircraft hunting is February and early April - mating season and most will be found on lakes and rivers where a lot of the game hangs out eating willows etc.

Cost effective measures best suited for this type of hunting is to use a smaller aircraft like a Supercub on skis (for pilots safety) -which is fairly cheap to operate - fly specified areas looking for tracks and kills which are pretty easy to spot from the air - even with a light snow falling.

Then call for a helicopter to take care of business -one good shooter with 00 buck does the trick. The Cub pilot probably could do a fair job but we all know that would be illegal.

This would be a great cost savings for any air program that the Fish and Wildlife could participate in if they would just stop the round table discussions every year without someone making a decision and would definately save a lot of moose, deer, sheep, cariboo and cattle from being killed.

Just my thoughts and I know this method works. Later

you see learn things in the mountains, when you spend 20+ years around GO's and Packers,,,:-|

and ONE thing that was very effective and discreet in Wolf Control was adding a little bit of Arsenic to the fresh horse turds while Packing and taking hunters back and forth to camps, the Wolves and Yoties eat the horse turds, same as dogs will around civilized farms and ranches,

Simple Solution, Discreet, Effective,Low Cost, and unknown of by the "Wolf-Huggers":wink:

[KodiakHntr]

I've been hunting about 30 years. I've seen one huge wolf in Sault St Marie, and one on Baldy, flying across the road like he was shot out of a cannon.
I have never had the crosshairs on a wolf.
Hunters contribution can only be negligible, at best. It's not a control factor.

Been hunting about the same length of time, maybe a year longer.....
And I've killed more wolves than anyone I know personally, but I'm still not making much of a dent in the population around my house. Doesn't stop me from attempting to poke holes in every single one I see though. And up here it's not much of a stretch to see a wolf every month, if not 10 in a month.

[The Dude]

Been hunting about the same length of time, maybe a year longer.....
And I've killed more wolves than anyone I know personally, but I'm still not making much of a dent in the population around my house. Doesn't stop me from attempting to poke holes in every single one I see though. And up here it's not much of a stretch to see a wolf every month, if not 10 in a month.

Then you're seeing, and killing, more wolves than 99.99% of the population. It's not a control solution, but good on ya for piling them up! :D
Pics?

[Wild one]

there dozens of dormant trap-lines in NE BC, and many of them haven't been trapped in many years, and may be many years before anyone bothers,

EVERY Year,,HUGE money IS paid to the owners of the trap-lines by the O&Gas industry for "Disturbance Concessions" some I know of as high as $25,000 per year,,,

and consider an entire winter, several months hard work, how much work and financial investment on that same trap-line?
just to maintain trails,cabins off road machines,and equipment,
in order to harvest/trap some fur and risk what PROFIT was earned from O&Gas Disturbance Concession ???

fur trapping may have some "romantic illusions" for some ?:?
but in reality it is a lifestyle and ONLY if you do not have to depend on the Trap-line for a living !

at this time in NE BC the Cattle Ranchers Association is paying $100 per dead wolf !

which is a really piss poor return for your efforts,costs to find and kill a wolf ?
considering the average laborer here in NE BC earns about $6000 per month !:-|

Unfortunately when offering most people $25,000 not to work they will take it. There are trappers in northern BC that do bring in more than $25,000 a year trapping but it is hard work. I would agree most will never make a living trapping but it can supplement your income

[olharley guy]

you see learn things in the mountains, when you spend 20+ years around GO's and Packers,,,:-|

and ONE thing that was very effective and discreet in Wolf Control was adding a little bit of Arsenic to the fresh horse turds while Packing and taking hunters back and forth to camps, the Wolves and Yoties eat the horse turds, same as dogs will around civilized farms and ranches,

Simple Solution, Discreet, Effective,Low Cost, and unknown of by the "Wolf-Huggers":wink:

Howdy, I know exactly what you mean. LOL Later

[GoatGuy]

As of last year the process of trying to get lines back in the hands of trappers started. Meetings with more than just Bio's are taking place. The trapping local I belong to just had our first meeting with one gov official and he was shocked to see the numbers of trappers who want this problem addressed in our region alone. We have his support already and are now working with him to speed the process along. We are also working at getting his higher ups involved because at this time the interest in trapping is being under estimated.

Goatguy

You say trapping is not effective yet do you know how many active trappers there are on trapping lines? Odds are you don't because it has already been proven the government records are not even close to being correct by trappers already. The number of trappers actually trapping lines is A LOT lower than gov records. I will agree trapping will not make a drastic decrease to wolf population but it will help lower or at least stabilize the numbers. You can at least agree that it is a lot more effective than measures being taken at this time.

You are correct that at this time the gov has pushed trapping a side but with fur prices on the rise, trappers are starting to getting organized, and what is being asked for is already gov policy not asking to change policies it is just a matter of time. I know first hand on what is going on from both sides and at this time the only thing the gov has as a defence is FN(some bands have already been proven to have no interest in trapping) other than that they have been caught with there pants down not doing their job.

Considering the value of the traplines($500 is min bid at auction but there are lines that go for over $100,000 )sitting around unused it would be a big help with funding. This does not include the money trappers put into the economy from running lines, traps. Fuel, building supplies for cabins, bait, and more. Honestly it would only be to their benefit to have these lines going it is just that people need to show that the interest is there and unfortunately trapper have being stay out of the public eye even more than hunter.

There have been efforts to reduce wolf populations in BC, Alaska, YK, Alberta through trapping alone. Unless it is widescale and intensive it will not reduce wolf populations. Until 50 years ago there were bounties on virtually anything with teeth and claws and these species were not eliminated. Even in Alaska where they currently have wolf reduction the effort included recreational hunting (from a/c), trapping and government shooting from the air. In BC where they were able to demonstrate a response by prey (black-tailed deer) it was essentially in one small area with intensive (see full-time+) year round efforts. There's plenty of litterature on the efforts and results of this (including the bounty system) - it simply isn't enough. Even if you reduce in one area all you do is create a sink hole which will be filled in from adjacent areas which aren't or can't be trapped. There is plenty of that in BC.

The disconnect here is you need to reduce the population by 40-70% annualy to reduce the population. That requires serious effort. Trapping could help, but you need to do it in conjunction with aerial or poison.

[GoatGuy]

So anything on the internet is bogus?
That makes all your posts automatically invalid.
Check and Mate.

No, it should however be used to compare.

The lethal levels required for dogs and cats are miles apart. The spatial, temporal and concentration of 1080 used to reduce wolf populations is extremely effective at focusing on dogs.

[houndogger]

1080 is exclusive to dogs, it does not kill other species. It is the best form of poison if wolf reduction is the goal.

Strychnine does and it moves through the food chain killing most everything that comes in contact with it. Alberta has been using strychnine for a few years now and it works. There are ways to mitigate its effect on non-target species.

Aerial works well and they've also been doing that in Alberta for a few years.

Trapping and hunting won't do it; it's been shown dozens and dozens of times. The social license to reduce wolf populations depends on conservationists' approach and the value we place on certain species. You will notice that the 'anti' crowd makes money on wolves and grizzly bears. They don't make money on endangered populations of Caribou and species such as the VI marmot. If hunters had the smarts to really start looking at some of these species and populations that are teetering in the balance and really got behind them we would see predator management. The tough thing is we seem to have a hard time moving in the opposite direction of the hook and bullet stigma that's been attached to hunters.

So, it's a social and political balancing act. If hunters, ranchers and FN were to get behind managing for healthy wildlife populations you would end up with sound wildlife management.

Been waiting for you to mention the VI marmot. Somebody was trained to remove the wolves and did. Alot of them, would have been all of them if they weren't told to leave a pack. lol Predator program ended somebody else took over...I can count how many wolf tracks I have seen in the last five years on one hand. So I know trapping can make a dent but everybody needs to get in on this together. One to get a bounty to the trappers for every wolf they trap. The proper training on how to catch wolves and not educate them. Then we just need to get these vacant lines filled with guys full of energy to get on with it.

Yup its a long shot...won't happen this time with the high wolf numbers but we should get going on it for the future...

[GoatGuy]

Been waiting for you to mention the VI marmot. Somebody was trained to remove the wolves and did. Alot of them, would have been all of them if they weren't told to leave a pack. lol Predator program ended somebody else took over...I can count how many wolf tracks I have seen in the last five years on one hand. So I know trapping can make a dent but everybody needs to get in on this together. One to get a bounty to the trappers for every wolf they trap. The proper training on how to catch wolves and not educate them. Then we just need to get these vacant lines filled with guys full of energy to get on with it.

Yup its a long shot...won't happen this time with the high wolf numbers but we should get going on it for the future...

Wasn't just wolves in that case.

They also had a program in the Nimpkish for bt's.

GOABC already pays for every wolf skull. Agreed everyone needs to be on the same page.

[houndogger]

Wasn't just wolves in that case.

They also had a program in the Nimpkish for bt's.

GOABC already pays for every wolf skull. Agreed everyone needs to be on the same page.
Exactly but it proves it can be done! Now I know the province is hugh and tough to access in some areas but it is possible.

[Walking Buffalo]

Exactly but it proves it can be done! Now I know the province is hugh and tough to access in some areas but it is possible.

Exactly. We just need to institute a PWT (wolf tax) to raise the sufficient funds. Wolf problem solved while creating some employment. :)


Dude,
Care to share the source of your 1080 info?


History shows that hunting/trapping without the use of poison cannot sufficiently reduce wolf populations over a large area. Realistically, poison and aerial shooting is the only viable option for most areas.


Bring out the 1080 and aircraft, get the wolves down to a low density, and we'll have 30 years until the next cull is required.

[elkdom]

Exactly. We just need to institute a PWT (wolf tax) to raise the sufficient funds. Wolf problem solved while creating some employment. :)


Dude,
Care to share the source of your 1080 info?


History shows that hunting/trapping without the use of poison cannot sufficiently reduce wolf populations over a large area. Realistically, poison and aerial shooting is the only viable option for most areas.


Bring out the 1080 and aircraft, get the wolves down to a low density, and we'll have 30 years until the next cull is required.

just GOOGLE New Zealand and 1080, about 1000 pages of information,
NZ uses about 80% of the world production of 1080,,,,,,,,

[Walking Buffalo]

just GOOGLE New Zealand and 1080, about 1000 pages of information,
NZ uses about 80% of the world production of 1080,,,,,,,,

Thanks, but that doesn't answer the question.

I asked where Dude got his 1080 info from.

[houndogger]

Exactly. We just need to institute a PWT (wolf tax) to raise the sufficient funds. Wolf problem solved while creating some employment. :)
Hey now there is a idea! Throw 5 bucks on every ungulate tag sold as PWT!

[gcreek]

Hey now there is a idea! Throw 5 bucks on every ungulate tag sold as PWT!


Better yet, 50 cents on every Starbucks Latte'.

[Walking Buffalo]

Better yet, 50 cents on every Starbucks Latte'.

Exactly. Everyone pays into the PWT.

[houndogger]

Better yet, 50 cents on every Starbucks Latte'.
Ya but you will have to say to better enhance wolf habitat. lol

[Wild one]

Ya but you will have to say to better enhance wolf habitat. lol

Leave out the part about predator control and just say it is to help protect the endangered mountain caribou. As long as the public thinks they are saving an endangered animal they will be all over it trying to save the world.

[trapperRick]

One possible approach would be to:
A) Make traplines more accessible (I didn't know they were hard to get until the above post)
B) Make Trapper licensing and training more accessible, and cheap, or free to take. I was signed up to take a course in Wolf Snaring in 100 Mile, but left the province before I could go. The fee was $50 for a one-day course, refunded $25 if you showed up! lol Lunch included.
C) Financial Incentive. have a program, sub rosa, that either pays a bounty, or doubles or triples the price at auction paid to a trapper. You got paid 75$ for that Wolf skin? Here's $150 more. Stamp.

Sounds good to me put a bounty/royalty on them and ease up on the trappers and traplines, I do not agree with poison to many non target animals killed.