Heard through the grapevine.....

[Bigbuckadams]

I use to live in the Coldstream area of Vernon and miss watching and drooling over the Whitetail bucks living on Middleton mountain. This is a large "hill" located between Coldstream and Vernon. I have just heard through the grapevine that one of these bucks has been taken with a bow or crossbow. There were at least 2 bucks that were minimum BC book deer and most likely make the 170 requirement for B&C. Now, here is where I have an issue with this. According to the Cons. Officer, it IS legal to hunt on Midd. Mtn., HOWEVER, the municipality of Coldstream, prohibits any discharge of firearms, including bows/crossbows. This area is part of Coldstream. So, would this not be considered a wildlife offence? As well, I would imagine that no "book" would accept this trophy, due to the location of the kill being in an area that no discharge of a firearm is allowed. I have no idea as to who took this buck, I just want to know what everybody thinks. I think if he took it in Coldstream, he should be fined and the buck confiscated ( My opinion ).

[mark]

Are you SURE that the "anti firearm discharge law" includes bows???? There are some huge bucks in kelowna city limits too. I talked to a CO about em, he said they are open and could be hunted with bows if you have permission from the landowner!

It would not be a wildlife offence, just a bylaw infraction!

[WoodOx]

I may be wrong, but it is legal to discharge bows in prohibied firearm discharge areas. The area must specify they bows are illegal as well, it cant be presumed they are. As Marc said it would be a bylaw fine, and as a matter of fact the buck proably would be entered into the books. Bucks which are poached are allowed into the books, but I believe the hunters name is discluded. Nevertheless I dont think ive ever seen a no discharge bow area - unless middleton mtn (SP?) is a city/regional district park - then it IS illegal to hunt, period.

DOnt know if that clears anything up lol

[Bigbuckadams]

Absolutely includes bows, my brother had an ochardist begging him to come and cull deer, bring his friends, bow/gun he didn't care. This buck I am referring to was in this area. We would have been more than happy to help him out with his dilemma, but not permitted by the municipality. Even if it is only a bylaw infraction, would it not make it an illegally harvested animal?

[Fisher-Dude]

I would expect that if the animal were taken in a no shooting zone that B&C would rule it was not taken by fair chase methods, and disqualify it. JMHO.

[mark]

The animal is open for harvest in the management unit! It is legal to harvest the animal, so the issue would have nothing to do with a CO. The only law broken is the discharge of the bow! Same as if a guy were target practicing his bow! Im guessing it would just be a bylaw infraction ($ fine) if the guy got cought! So can we hunt these bucks with spears????

[Fisher-Dude]

So can we hunt these bucks with spears????

Only if your knuckles drag on the ground. :rolleyes:

[416]

Interesting thread....... l know of a buddy who has hunted with his bow gear in areas prohibiting the discharge of firearms and he had specifically inquired about it and was told it was permissible. As far as the orchardist and his deer.......l live in Vernon and have used my archery gear during deer season on private orchards in the city and we have the same bylaws. The farmer was told by the CO.'s that bow/crossbows were legal. Not knocking what you have heard, but l know l have done legally what you have been told is illegal.
Middleton Mt is private property so l don't know why that buck couldn't have been taken legally.

[Bigbuckadams]

As stated, I understand it may only be a bylaw infraction, maybe something stupid like a $100 fine. Just seems to me that it should be a bit more than just that. I am not trying to get whoever got the buck in hot water, but I guess maybe it is more of an ethical question. No shooting with a gun or bow, means just that. To me, it would be the same as shooting a deer on private property that is posted "No Hunting" .

[Bigbuckadams]

Yes, Middleton is mainly private. My Dad hunted form about where Pottery Rd is now all the way up Midd. Mtn for many years before any developement was up there at all. I would have LOVED to be able to hunt those bucks up there. However, I was told no shooting any firearm up there, period. The Vernon side may be entirely different.

[dana]

Is Coldstream it's own municipality or is it part of Vernon? If it is incorporated and has it's own bylaws that don't allow the shooting of bows then this animal could in fact be ineligable for entry in any 'Book'. All laws need to be followed. But.... I would hazard a guess that you might have some poor info when it comes to shooting a bow within city limits. Never heard of any municipality with that bylaw before. The Discharge of firearms is totally different. A bow is not a firearm.

[Bigbuckadams]

I was very much surprised to hear the use of bows was not permitted as well. I phoned the Municipal office a fews years back and was told I was not allowed to use a bow or crossbow within Coldstream. I was inquiring due to these deer specifically. My brother went in to the office last summer and got the same answer. No gun, no bow, no crossbow within the Municipality ...didn't say anything about spears :lol: ( but, didn't ask ). No, Coldstream is not currently part of the City of Vernon, it is a separate Municipality.

[Gateholio]

There is also "No Hunting" regulations, both in our provincial regs, as well as some municiplaities have no hunting bylaws.

Not familiar with the area, so not sure if they are applicabe.

[Cappy]

Ask for the bylaw sections relating to the shooting of bows/crossbows/firearms and hunting. The enforcement section of the bylaw dept should have this on hand. (sometimes city employees will just assume it is not permitted when in fact there are no laws on the books)

Bylaws are enforced by the municipal bylaw officers and the peace officers (RCMP or otherwise) who are employed or under contract by the municipality to enforce all the laws of the region. That is probably the reason CO's have said it is okay to shoot in some regions when its not - there are no provincial satutes in place prohibiting hunting/shooting etc so as far as they are concerned you are good to go.

[sawmill]

When you drive into Kimberley(I live there) the sign says No discharge of firearms or bows within city limits.We have a real huge pop. of mulies in town that are pissing people off and a huge city limit,mostly due to the old Kimberley mine, for tax purposes.A few years back a guy arrowed a big mulie 5 miles out of town but still ,1 mile inside the line,and he got spanked by the C.O`s.They do enforce the bylaws because it is an infraction of the law.

[willyqbc]

My grandparents farm is right in the area you mention....any details on the actual buck taken? Double brows and a broken off point on the right beam if you are looking at him? Something like this guy perhaps?

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/buck_jumping_fence.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/buck_in_field.jpg

It may well be that there is a no "shooting" bylaw in Coldstream including bows....we have it in Quesnel. Its a shame too because there are some huge bucks living within city limits.

[boxhitch]

The times are a changing. The last time I hunted on Middleton was about 12 years ago, and all that was there were mulies and pheasant. No 'owner' issues back then. 'Bylaws?? Senor, we don't need no steenking bylaws'
Like was said, lets see what the paper work says.

[Bigbuckadams]

I haven't got any details of the buck, but from what I recall from viewing them, that would be one of the "smaller" bucks. I use that term loosely, that one pictured is a beauty! The buck I have been informed was taken is a true monster typical, easily over 170 B&C.

[Rainwater]

If the guy is hunting illegally then the CO should be involved.

[Dirty]

Langley has the same BY-LAW, where bows cannot be discharged within Langley. In addition they also have a no hunting By-Law in Langley. I would check with the City Hall to confirm whether or not there actually is a no bow hunting or shooting by-law. In most cases there is a grey area behind the by-law such as: the target must be stationary if discharging a bow. This can be bent by saying the deer was standing still when it was shot etc etc. In addition, on private property, with agriculture uses ( ie orchard or farm), you may be able to harvest game in legal hunting season via crop protection. I would get the farmer who is begging you to shoot deer to check with the ministry of agriculture to check whether it falls under crop predation. In most cases, the rights of farmers' are very powerful and the protection of their crops will over rule the no hunting or no shooting by-law. A friend of mine was given a permit to shoot waterfowl out of season by the ministry of agriculture. Their exact words, " Shoot as many as you would like, and leave them in the field if you don't want them." Although this was a bad attitude and my friend would not leave the birds to rot, it shows the attitude of the Ministry towards predation of crops.

[416]

If the guy is hunting illegally then the CO should be involved.

Indeed they should with out a doubt!!!

My curiosity got the best of me and l phoned the Coldstream municipal orifice this morning as l had never ever heard of bows/crossbows being lumped into the firearms category and the story l got was ...indeed they are in Coldsteams bylaws, but there are areas in the Coldstream that ARE open to hunting. My curiosity is one thing, driving down there to find if Middleton is one of those areas on there map is beyond my interest.
Nice buck pic willyqbc.....stuff dreams are made of!

[Mik]

Is this a rumor or is the buck definately down? I still live in the Coldstream area and yes, those 2 bucks are very impressive! I guess i'll have to wait 'n see if the guy takes a trophy for the largest buck at the Vernon Fish & Game dinner banquet!!

[Bigbuckadams]

Although I haven't seen it, I have it on good authority the buck is quite dead. My brother watches them on a daily basis with the binos and he hasn't been around for a bit now. Anyway, off to Clearwater for the weekend to visit family, might get a chance for a Sat. morning hunt:lol: . I probably won't be hunting out of Region 8 again this fall, so I will probably take any buck that wanders my way, except maybe a spike :lol: . Have a good weekend all and I'll catch up on Monday!

[WoodOx]

Good luck hunting Bigbuck, along with anyone else heading out...

If anyone does run into pictures of this large buck, post some as Id be curiuous to see it!

[WoodOx]

Hey guyss,
I know this issue has died, but out of curiousity, does anyone know for sure whether Middleton Mtn itself is privately owned, and furthermore, if it resides under Vernon or Coldstream district?

Thanks

[NightOwl74]

BigBuckAdams was that whitetail picture in your gallery taken in Kelowna? That background looks a alot like Gallaghers Canyon off McCulloch Rd. If it is, that is Native land, and if so are you a Treaty Indian?

[Bigbuckadams]

Nightowl, my brother took the buck in my gallery on my friend's ranch. The ranch is not near any native land nor Gallagher's canyon. As far as the query in regards to Middleton mtn being private, I believe it is all private, but I am not certain. Also, a portion of it was in the City of Vernon, and a portion was Coldstream, last time I looked into it.

[NightOwl74]

I stand corrected BBA. Sorry for the accusation. That buck looks identical to one of three I saw several times in velvet up in the Native land on my way to the lake.