Upland dogs

[slyfox]

Hi guys this is for you guys that hunt upland birds my dog passed away about a year a go and think its time for a new family member.

Have had gshp,gwhp but thinking of getting a vizla this time but cant get the gsh pointer out of my head just looking for some info on breedS that other hunters have.

Thanks SLYFOX.

[slyfox]

looking at the pointer breeds only thanks again.

[Foxton Gundogs]

FIELD BRED English Springer, nothing like shooting upland over a good flushing dog and Springers are the ultimate pheasant dog, and do pretty well on the other uplanders as well as waterfowl

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n499/FoxtonGundogs/Flush-1.jpg
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n499/FoxtonGundogs/feb2012012sm.jpg?t=1327167912

Sorry must have been posting at the same time as your second post didnt see it

[Kasomor]

How about a pointing lab?

....just trying to help in the worst way. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

...and Foxton, my toller would have snatched that pheasant out of the air not just the tail feathers!! BAHAHAAAA!!!

[Calamity]

I knew I'd seen an ad for them on Kijiji but the only ones I could find are in Winnipeg.

http://manitoba.kijiji.ca/c-pets-dogs-puppies-for-sale-Pure-Bred-Rebel-Rouser-Vizsla-Pups-W0QQAdIdZ348609210

Might be possible to have them ship a pup though.

If my pockets were deep enough right now I'd be bringing this handsome fellow home...and he's in B.C.

http://bc.kijiji.ca/c-pets-dogs-puppies-for-sale-Purebred-Wirehaired-German-Pointer-Drahthaar-W0QQAdIdZ352261534

[Foxton Gundogs]

How about a pointing lab?

....just trying to help in the worst way. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

...and Foxton, my toller would have snatched that pheasant out of the air not just the tail feathers!! BAHAHAAAA!!!

TOUCHE' I will admit my spaniels may not be quite that "light in the loafers" so don't get the "air" a Toller can.:twisted:

[pnbrock]

tollers fly through the air with ease because there heads are allready filled with air

[Iron Glove]

tollers fly through the air with ease because there heads are allready filled with air

I think this thread has been hijacked by the Toller vs. All Other crowd.
We need a new thread entitled: "Tollers vs. Lesser Dogs" :)

[Sasquatch]

I'd say try and meet a few people with different dogs and see which ones you like. My preference is for the versatile wirehairs, partly because they hardly shed. But I also really like the look of a dog with a beard.

The shorthair dogs don't seem to handle very cold weather as well from what I've seen, but that may or may not be important to you.

It comes down to a personal preference - I wouldn't want a pointing lab and a dog that leaps after flying pheasants really isn't my thing. I like a dog that naturally hunts close and isn't running all over the province looking for birds.

I would just spend some time, meet some dogs and see what suits you best.

[Kasomor]

tollers fly through the air with ease because there heads are allready filled with air

Bite me! :mrgreen::mrgreen:

..and now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

Sorry OP :-D

[Ioneth]

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n499/FoxtonGundogs/Flush-1.jpg


I love this pic. My wife and I wanted one but ended up with a chessie.

[835]

I dont really have Visla in my head as a good hunter. If i was looking for a true pointer it would be a Dratthar or how ever you spell D.D!
Vislas i think are a bit ( Sorry ) wimpy.

That bit of toller fun was flippin funny!

[Superdeuce]

Depends on the type of hunting you do, but for me, none of them can touch an english setter when it comes to running and pointing birds. Nice temperament as house dogs too. Hard to go wrong with the Tekoa Mountain Sunrise line.

[FirePower]

It comes down to a personal preference - I wouldn't want a pointing lab and a dog that leaps after flying pheasants really isn't my thing. I like a dog that naturally hunts close and isn't running all over the province looking for birds.

I would just spend some time, meet some dogs and see what suits you best.

Just to make matters clear. Spaniels do not run all over the province when questing for game. They hunt naturaly with in about 20 yds of the gun questing a back and forth elongated figure 8. With a bit of training they hup (spaniel term for sit/stay)to flush and remain steady untill sent to retrieve. They should also drop and remain steady to shot. I once witnessed a mates springer who was hunting in brace with my dog hup to my shot, remain steady while my dog made his retrieve and then when cast off to hunt again dive directly into a bush not 3 feet away flushing a big cock pheasant, under control? The leaping in the air after flying birds as you put it is brought about by the drive and desire that produces what those who are firmiliar with the breed call a hard flush, to get the bird right up in the air in front of the guns. This action is why spaniels in general and Springers in particular are considered by most as the ultimate pheasant dog. As phesants, particularly cocks are known as runners they can be quite difficult for a pointing dog to pin and you will see pointers point, loose the bird, hunt, repoint and so on. This is no knock on the dog it is just a result of their development as primearily a covey bird dog.


Bite me! :mrgreen::mrgreen:

..and now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

Sorry OP :-D

I enjoyed the "Toller banter" greatly you guys are very funny

[WaderGator]

The shorthair dogs don't seem to handle very cold weather as well from what I've seen, but that may or may not be important to you.

X2 My buddy has a GSP. she's an awesome dog and I love her like my own but she doesn't handle cold very well

[Crimson Viking]

I dont have one but im becoming more and more partial to Wire-haired pointing griffon . Looks to be a great versatile hunting dog.

A link to a thread for a recient puppy to HBC http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?75482-Mater-the-Griffon

[Sasquatch]

Just to make matters clear. Spaniels do not run all over the province when questing for game.

I see looking back at my post I wasn't at all clear - my apologies. I was actually thinking about some pointing breeds when I mentioned dogs that run all over the province looking for birds. Some of the pointers are pretty wide ranging and if you hunt thick brush on foot, they might not be the best choice.

I meant no disrespect to spaniels or other flushing breeds - I know good ones have a ton of drive and if you enjoy that style of hunting they would be a blast to hunt over. I have a buddy in Sask with a chocolate lab, who sometimes comes home with a limit of pheasant without firing a shot - great fun if thats what you like.
I much prefer to watch a good pointer work a running pheasant - in my mind it is a thing of beauty to watch a dog relocate as the bird moves, it becomes a little like a chess match in a field.

As far as Springers being the "ultimate pheasant dog" - you are certainly entitled to your opinion, which comes back to my point about choice of dog being a personal preference.

[Don_Abbate]

Get a GSP. Just look at spot. Unreal bird dog. Nicest looking dog out of those. Imo no matter what dog you choose you have to take the time and effort to train it if you want it to be an elite bird dog.

[hotload]

Pick the breed with the most instinctual trait that you want according to the type of hunting you will be doing and and hone in on training and focusing on that for your hunting needs. You will find most gundogs will have other traits bred in them to maybe a lesser degree,but, work and train those to the highest degree that you can get. This will help you as a trainer,owner, handler to perfect your skills and also to bring out the very best in the dog that you have selected.......................................... .........

[keoke]

tollers fly through the air with ease because there heads are allready filled with air

By buddy has one and I thought their head are full of rocks. The most stubborn dog I have ever met, with that dog everything is a fight for dominance.

[1/2 slam]

My family has had English Pointers for 50 years. I currently have 2 English Pointers. They are Elhew bloodlines and fantastic bird dogs. They work for me. I love watching a good upland bird dog work. They're great pets as well.

[FirePower]

I see looking back at my post I wasn't at all clear - my apologies. I was actually thinking about some pointing breeds when I mentioned dogs that run all over the province looking for birds. Some of the pointers are pretty wide ranging and if you hunt thick brush on foot, they might not be the best choice.

I meant no disrespect to spaniels or other flushing breeds - I know good ones have a ton of drive and if you enjoy that style of hunting they would be a blast to hunt over. I have a buddy in Sask with a chocolate lab, who sometimes comes home with a limit of pheasant without firing a shot - great fun if thats what you like.
I much prefer to watch a good pointer work a running pheasant - in my mind it is a thing of beauty to watch a dog relocate as the bird moves, it becomes a little like a chess match in a field.

As far as Springers being the "ultimate pheasant dog" - you are certainly entitled to your opinion, which comes back to my point about choice of dog being a personal preference.

NP I was wondering if your referance being to english pointers and some of the setter lines following on horseback or in a elevated bush buggy isnt my idea of fun either and I have done several plantation hunts behing, far behind lol, english pointers for quail. I didnot mean to say versitiles were not able to hunt phesants sucessfully but just as they outshine the flushers on covey birds quail, huns, chuker etc, the spaniels were developed as a phesant specialist and this is not my opinion I could check my library for actual quotes but a number of well known gundog writers including Dave Duffy and Kennith C Roebuck have ecoed theu "ultimate phesant dog" statement over the years. I hunt with a mate who has a GSP and have seen the dog frustrated a number of times by runners its just the nature of how the pointing breeds hunt to be more effective on a bird or covey of birds that will hold to point. Th\e maun thing though when all is said and done is we have a dog that suots us take their streingths along with their weaknesses and most of all enjoy the. Thanks for taking the time to clearify.

FP

[835]

Get a Lab :mrgreen:

[Foxton Gundogs]

Get a Lab :mrgreen:

Then wish you had SPRINGER:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[835]

Then wish you had SPRINGER:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


I know :)
maybe next dog.

[BEARSLAYER]

I have a springer and a cocker and love th em both for birds .They both hunt close and have good noses.

[storm]

Hey Slyfox just a quick comment for your dilemma , If you are going to hunt real wild pheasants stay away from the flushing dogs. The pointers are the only dog to own. real wild birds run way to much for the flushing dogs. All the pointing breeds are good just need the training GOOD LUCK on a breed. GSP is my fav.

[Sasquatch]

My family has had English Pointers for 50 years. I currently have 2 English Pointers. They are Elhew bloodlines and fantastic bird dogs. They work for me. I love watching a good upland bird dog work. They're great pets as well.

I understand the Elhew line is one of the best around. From pictures I've seen they are outstanding looking dogs.

Can I ask you what the natural range is for these dogs? Do they adjust for thick cover as opposed to open terrain?

[1/2 slam]

My oldest (5 years) hunts close. The youngest gets out there if I let her. It can be work to keep her close but so far so good.

[storm]

For the elhew english pointer I've owed 1 and my dad has owed 5 and every one is every strung and are big big rangers then are amazing upland dogs to hunt behind and bar none the prettiest pointing dog around but you must be prepared for a very high drive and quirky dog

[yamadirt 426]

Dogbreedinfo.com has some good info I thought when I was shopping around. Once I found the breed I wanted I did some serious intel into it including asking/searching on here + looking at dozens of websites and also looked at youtube. I can't say enough about my dog so far. I've had dobies all my life and this young wirehaired pointing griffon for only 2.5 months and I'm impressed. On and off the field he is my ideal dog.
I've wrote about him a lot in this forum under his own thread. Here are a few things about him I haven't talked much about. I take him to work with me and I drive a truck almost all day. He curls up and sleeps or generally lays down the whole time. This is after sleeping all night. When we stop for a pee break or walk or squirrel hunt he is very alert and attentive . Around the house he is also very calm and very mature for his age. He is also very sensitive. You almost need to give him a treat after you discipline him. Which I think is a good trait for me. I don't need to train a sensitive dog as hard, they want to please. Very friendly with other dogs and people. The coat is tough/warm and there feet are also covered in thick fur. He will run into the tightest rabbit hole thru the brambles without a scratch. ( so far)

They possess a great amount of natural hunting instinct and even though they resemble a couple of different hunting breeds , they really are a dog of their own. They point, they retrieve, they track. I only mentioned the other stuff because most dogs only hunt 20-30 days in a yr and the rest of the time they are at home with the family. If you want to see one in person I'm willing to show off mine in a field or trail to see what these guys are like as a pup. I've been out with Sasquatch and walked with his dog and he is a great looking dog at 6 yrs old. These guys won't break any speed records though. Not that they are slow but they just seem methodical. I could go on but mostly it is irellevent to your original question. I've never hunting upland with him ,he is under 5 months of age, and he is my first hunting dog. BUT I do hunt often with him now, he loves guns, he works a field well naturally, he points at birds/leaves/squirrels and holds on point naturally, and he has marked downed birds out over 100yds. I just know they are worth having a look at.

[Sasquatch]

Great description of the breed Yama - mine is the same almost to the letter. All the Griffs I've met are "sensitive" as you say and I think it must be pretty common in the breed. Mine has been the easiest dog to train I've ever had and is extremely biddable.

To play devils advocate, there are some downsides to the breed:

Although they barely shed - the coats do pick up every burr, twig and thorn like they are magnets for them and the coats need regular grooming. I've actually had to leave areas that were full of birds because the dogs coat was getting matted with burrs and seeds. It was taking a ridiculous amount of time to get them off him.

They do tend to hunt pretty close - if I hunted huns or other open terrain birds on a regular basis, I would probably have a dog that runs a little bigger, like a pointer or an english setter. I mostly hunt grouse with him, so the range is just right for me.

They are loyal almost to a fault and require companionship - these are not dogs that would do well in a kennel or left alone alot. Like all hunting dogs, they require quite a bit of exercise but are pretty calm if they get it.

[FirePower]

Hey Slyfox just a quick comment for your dilemma , If you are going to hunt real wild pheasants stay away from the flushing dogs. The pointers are the only dog to own. real wild birds run way to much for the flushing dogs. All the pointing breeds are good just need the training GOOD LUCK on a breed. GSP is my fav.

I am sorry my good man but either you are totaly kennel blind or you have never hunted over a well trained field bred springer. If you had you would not be spouting such balderdash. The fact yes I said fact is that pointers were developed and excell as covey bird dogs, covey birds hold well to a point and thus are the specialty of the pointing breeds. Pointers can and do hunt wild phesants but the coveys are their bread and butter. Pheasants and especially cocks, on the other hand do not hold well to poinnt, they are by nature runners you may enjoy watching your pointer follow a runner breaking point multiple times to prusue and try to pin again a wylie old rooster but the plain and simple fact is that had that same bird had been hit in the begining by a hard flushing Spaniel it would have 90% of the time, been in the air in front of the guns game over, and if it had run a spaniel by style would ave been in full chase not rivited to the spot, as a good pointer should be, untill either the dog relizes the bird is gone or the master releases the dog from point to try and pin the long gone bird again. Springers were developed for this game, they excell at it, it's their meat and potatoes and for you to state otherwise is pure unadulterated humbug and shows a total lack of knowlage of the breed. I applaud your loyalty to your chosen breed but to dismiss a dog bred and developed primarily for pheasant is utter nonsense. I hunt quail, huns, chucker and grouse as well as pheasant over my spaniels but I readily admit they take a back seat on the covey birds to the pointing breeds. On grouse I would put them on equal footing with both styles having the advantage in diffrent cover and situations, but for pheasant they are the superior breed. Everyone enjoys their chosen breed and style of gundog for their own reasons and I respect that but for you to make the statement you did is equivilant to me saying that my spaniels are the only way to go on quail it is utter nonsense.
Dont take my word for it read the experts, Kennith C. Roebuck, Dave Duffy, Art Rodger, Chuck Goodall and the list goes on and on.

[835]

Sly Fox,

You do understand that after all this you are required to tell us what you got right? :)

[Sasquatch]

Sly Fox,

You do understand that after all this you are required to tell us what you got right? :)

We want pics too!

[Foxton Gundogs]

To quote the Up Island Sage no pix it didnt happen...............even tho it may be getting you up at night and chewing up your best boots lol

[Superdeuce]

IMHO - If you want a duck retriever, get a lab. If you want a flusher, get a springer. But if you truly want a pointing dog, the only three I would consider are a Brittany, English Setter and English Pointer. The Brit tends to be closer ranging and the EP tends to be 3 hillsides over and ignoring your whistles... To me, the setter is by far the most stylish and best temperament but we each have our biases...I had the good fortune of having a 3x International Woodcock Champion sleep at my feet every night as a kid and be my personal grouse hunting dog after school each day in the fall....all three brreds noted do just fine on foot busting thickets. Personally I want a dog with some stylish tail cracking "run", who hunts the cover and doesn't hang out under my feet.
If you want a dog that can do it all, get one of the "versatile" breeds mentioned and have something that can't do any one thing nearly as well as the dogs that are specialized at that particular sport/trait

[slyfox]

Some real good info guys going to look at some pups this week ill take some pic,s .

[huntinnewbie]

Back in the "old days" when there were pheasants in the Fraser Valley and you could hunt them we would hunt the flats south of Cloverdale.
Open fields with hedgerows or short grass interspersed with tall bunches of Reeds Canary grass.
Our goto dog was our old yellow lab, Butch. He would work just in front of us, nose going a mile a minute. When we saw him do a double take and return to a hedge or tussock of grass we new there was a pheasant in there. We say "where is he" and the dog would dive in and out flew a pheasant. He would then retrieve the downed bird for us and resume his hunt. He was an awesome duck dog but with one annoying habit. In those days we used to hunt the dykes along the Serpentine in Cloverdale. We would not be the only duck hunter and if Butch decided there wasn't enough action in our spot and the other hunter was shooting, he would take off and go get the other guys ducks. No amount of calling would get him back until he had retrieved their ducks for them. Then he would come back to us.
Maybe not text book when it came to style but he always got the job done.

[levind]

pudelpointer
and good luck with what ever type of dog you end up getting.

[604redneck]

ive got a vizsla and hes a great dog...wouldnt really consider them wimpy in any way they are easy to train thats for sure and are very loyal as well

[BigSlapper]

Extremely happy with my DD (a few more pics on another thread - DD Feival Vom Okanogan Flusstal). Just an amazing breed of dog.

http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w475/Tunkwa/TakemeHomePlease.jpg
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w475/Tunkwa/image2.jpg