Yukon Hunters: Opinions on New Reugulations in GMZ 7

[Yukon280]

http://www.yukon-news.com/news/26801/
Anyone want to chime in?
Our Fish and Game Association is a lame duck. These regulations get implemented which restrict resident opportunities, yet the outfitters have zero quotas. Last season, there were 133 Dall Sheep taken in the Yukon by non resident hunters, and 76 by resident, yet the residents get the restrictions.
First of all, the resource muct be protected, but that must be across the board.
GMZ 2 had 72 non res, and resident. Is that sustainable? Who knows, but yet no quotas are in place.

[North]

I see your concern but not sure if the recent restrictions really have anything to do with outfitters as most of the sheep hunting pressure in zone seven come from residents.

I think the three areas recently placed under permit hunt receive lots of pressure from residents.

7-19 and 7-16 have unfortunately been tracked out by lazy hunters bringing their ATVs up into the alpine. If you fly over that area, the impact left up in alpine areas and wetlands will make you sick.

7-14 has a 10 year resident harvest of 4.7 rams per year (emailed Department of Environment earlier this year for data) which I can see as being high pressure for such a small sub zone. Also the access of the lake gives leaves it pretty susceptible to over harvest.

7-16 has a 10 year resident harvest of 4.3 per year. Third highest in all of zone 7.

7-19 doesn't have many sheep but is so close to whitehorse and with so many tracks it might be the best for the sheep.

I am not sure what the outfitter quota/harvest rate is for that area as I don't think it has been hunted much recently. I do not know but would be upset to find out that they could still hunt sheep in those areas.

The sheep open zones changing to permit do not come as much of a surprise given the close access to Whitehorse and the zero restrictions on ATV access. In my opinion its only a matter of time before more great spots become ruined and placed on permit due to the over access and abuse of hunters and ATVs. (residents and some outfitters are both guilty of this)

Pilot mountain a few years ago, these three this year and who knows what will be next.

GMZ 2 is an interesting stat but its an incredibly tough place to access for residents. Most will just fly into somewhere around Whitehorse for as good or better sheep hunting then head 500 kms north to do the same thing. As long as it is sustainable I only take it as a challenge to eventually put another resident kill in that column.

How do you know no quotas are in place? I would be very surprised if outfitters just had an open season on animals. I assume they receive a quota and plan hunts around that?

[BCRiverBoater]

I read the article and it does not imply that only the residents were put on quota. They stated each zone wold have "x" number of sheep permits. I am not sure how they would be allocated but if an area is put under a quota it should be divided between resident and non resident. If a zone can support 15 sheep being killed then it means 15 total by all hunters. That is were the allocation fight in BC stems from. Who has the right to shoot these animals???

Either way I need to see more data and information before I jump to conclusions on this outcome. However the Territories and Dall sheep are sitting way better than us in BC with our Stones. Over all the sheep are doing very well over all across the whole territory versus our steep decline in BC. Maybe a few accessible areas are decline due to over hunting but due to the vast size of the territories and lack of access the Dall Sheep population is very healthy and will remain strong for years. So what if they have to close a few zones completely. The residents of the Territories are very fortunate for there environment and current health of Dall Sheep. I would be more concerned of the caribou herds at this point. BC is losing both at a rapid rate!!!

[Jagermeister]

Obviously, it appears to be a conservation measure. It's a sad day when it comes to this, but it is better to correct the situation before it becomes out of hand and the wildlife cannot recover for a long time.

[325 wsm]

-the 3 areas you're referring to going to LEH have had no outfitter working in them for at least 5 years now. I have taken sheep off the Kusawa area and been home the same day I left. These areas are very easy to hunt and a cap needs to be put in place due to resident pressure.
-All outfitters I know meet with the govt. and local native bands to discuss and implement quota's on game animals, so yes they deal with quota's.
-There are areas in GMZ- 2 that are open to residents but not non-residents, residents have no restrictions there.
-GMZ- 2 is hard to access, costs more money to hunt etc. so it is under utilized by residents.
-As to sustainability outfitter quota's for sheep are generally based on age average. If the outfitter drops below an 8 yr old average their quota will be adjusted, for example an area like the Bonnet Plume (@8000 sq. miles) is noted to take 20 to 24 sheep a year and maintain a 10 yr old age average.
- If residents hunted more sheep in GMZ-2 outfitter quota would be adjusted.
-Not sure where the Yukon Fish and Game Assoc. fits into it. I assume you mean renewable resources making the legislations. Luckily for us in the Yukon our game management system was one of the last ones to be developed in N.A. . This allowed them to use "successful" practices from other game management systems already known and avoid a lot of the learning curve problems. Overall they are doing 1 of the best jobs of game management in N.A. Our problem here seems to be an increasing number of uninformed anti- hunting idiots who don't want to live in the "wild" Yukon, they want a Walt Disney carmel coating on it.

[Yukon280]

No question that GMZ 7 needs Sheep harvest quotas. Easy access and ATVs have seen to that, but thats another issue.
As far as quotas go, outfitters do negotiate with local RRCs for Moose and Caribou quotas, but not Sheep.
With Sheep, its wide open. If its legal, its ok.
There used to be a formula in place, as 325 WSM pointed out, where if you had over 2 years where a certain number of the rams harvested were less than 8 years old, you could be put on quota. The exact formulae escapes me, but it was in place, and it worked, as it was aged based, not horn size based, and it kept good genetics in the gene pool longer.
Jean Carey, YG Sheep biologist did away with that system about 6-7 years ago. Now, you would have to do a population survey to see if the harvest is sustainable. Before it was easy; ram age going down, put in quotas. And I believe the outfitters liked the system.
All you have to do is go to the web pages of the outfitters that post their Sheep hunt data for the prvious year and look at the sie of the rams they are taking. The age and size of the rams is going down. Where you get quotes with things like "so and so from wherever harvested this great 35" 7 year old". Thats not a trophy.
As far as our Yukon F&G Association, they are in ineffective at representing Yukon resident hunters. The BC Wildlife Federation is a huge voice in BC, thats what we need here.
So, now what do we do? We have further restrictions in GM7. Thats going to push many of those hunters further out. 7-16 had such ridiculously easy access, and used to be so productive. 7-13 will get hit harder. GMZ 5 is already starting to see increased resident activity, and that area does have outfitters pressure.
Bottom line is that if there are concerns over harvest pressure in one area, and decisions are being made with no hard population data, then the department needs to take a good hard look at the whole Yukon, and that includes outfitters.

[Alpine Addict]

Not to derail your thread, but some serious ATV restrictions need to be put in place for outfitters too, but mostly Residents.

[North]

I still find it hard to believe that there would be no quotas for sheep. Seems like too much temptation to allow as much harvest of the most profitable animal. If this is the case then yes something needs to be done.

I will email or call someone and follow up here later this week.

Alpine addict. Your PM box is full. Pm me your email.

[Alpine Addict]

I still find it hard to believe that there would be no quotas for sheep. Seems like too much temptation to allow as much harvest of the most profitable animal. If this is the case then yes something needs to be done.

I will email or call someone and follow up here later this week.

Alpine addict. Your PM box is full. Pm me your email.

Oops, thanks. Ill empty it, or you can email me at ben_heuser@hotmail.com

Thanlks

[trigger]

Its a bit dissapointing that it has to come to permits. Especially only one per area.
I think there should be more quad restrictions. I fly over tghese areas going to or from a job and where quads have pushed through to is absolutely disgusting.

To add,
The guide outfitters dont have quotas, nor do the first nations.

[325 wsm]

[QUOTE=trigger;1085948]
I think there should be more quad restrictions..... where quads have pushed through to is absolutely disgusting.

couldn't agree more with that statement.

[bruin]

I believe the outfitters are on a self imposed quota in the Yukon. They take a recommended number of rams out of their area per year (I don't know how they come up with that number). Its in their best interest to limit harvest and preserve trophy quality and herd health long term.

[Yukon280]

I still find it hard to believe that there would be no quotas for sheep. Seems like too much temptation to allow as much harvest of the most profitable animal. If this is the case then yes something needs to be done.

I will email or call someone and follow up here later this week.

Alpine addict. Your PM box is full. Pm me your email.
Absolutely its too much temptation.
Look at the harvest numbers for Bonnet Plume as compared to Widrig. Pretty much double.
What year was it that Ruby Range took 30 sheep? Ryan Leef was managing it at the time.
How much interest would there be to form a new org., say Yukon Resident Hunters Association?
More and more outfitters are now using ATVs, and there needs to be regs put into place before this practice becomes too well established to reverse.
As far as GM 2 being remote, well, it is, for now, but the point is that with no idea whether the present harvest is sustainable or not, it might be too late down the road if and when it becomes more accessible , or if someone starts running Cubs on tundra tires.
Same deal with GMZ 5. Its been hammered hard over the years by Ruby Range and Mervyn. I spent 5 days there last season, August 2nd on, and saw one legal ram. With GMZ 7 getting more restricted, 5 is going to be the next easiest access zone. This has to be addressed now.
Now to say I am anti outfitting is wrong. I was born here, and grew up with Kosers, Jensens, Widrigs, Dicksons, Goodwins. You get the picture. What I am against is guys like Shockey and their ilk hammering OUR resource with no thought for sustainablity.
If we want to ensure our opportunities, now and in the future, we are going to have to organize and be heard.
The Alaskans have the Alaskan Backcountry Hunters Org http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/ maybe we need something similar.
Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this.

[Yukon280]

I believe the outfitters are on a self imposed quota in the Yukon. They take a recommended number of rams out of their area per year (I don't know how they come up with that number). Its in their best interest to limit harvest and preserve trophy quality and herd health long term.
The good outfitters do manage their areas well, but the others, not so much.
You would think it would be in their best interest, but they are hunting them hard, and making it pay.
And as I said before, no quotas, legislated, recomended or otherwise. Nada. Zip.
They used to be, but not for a while now.
BC has quotas, and you hunters have a strong voice, but not here.

[medved]

a little necro posting but seems some extra info was needed.

so far and after all those years there is still no quotas for sheep hunting in Yukon except that area 17.

as you can see the first year of operation did not end well ...

http://www.whitehorsestar.com/News/outfitter-fined-for-unauthorized-hunting


(http://www.whitehorsestar.com/News/outfitter-fined-for-unauthorized-hunting)

[tangozulu]

Outfitters need hard sheep quotas, not just a number they feel happy with. Ex outfiters have been runningbYukon for decades. The resident wont get anything from any politician i know.
The ATV arms race needs to end with aces control. We have hone from quads to sideby side to 6x6 to npow needing an argo to stay in moose meat. Could use way more aircraft spotting control too.

[boxhitch]

If the legal harvest of rams is actually causing issues with the population, why isn't there a change to a more restrictive horn curl regulation to try and raise the average harvest age?
Or is all this just about the social issues of RH vs non-RH harvest ?