2012 BC Special Sheep Permit $240,000

[KB90]

Just saw this on the GOABC Facebook page.

"British Columbia Special Mountain Sheep Permit just sold at the 2012 Wild Sheep Foundation Saturday Night Auction for $240,000"

[bowhunterbruce]

ya i saw that as well this morning.pretty crzy price for sure.i sure am glad i live here and can hunt them as a residentfor almost next to nothing compared to what outsiders pay.great boost for the consevation though.last year they only got $110,000

[.300WSMImpact!]

I think its the downfall to hunting, if this stuff keeps progressing none of us will be able to afford hunting, hunting should not be for profit!!

[ROEBUCK]

I think its the downfall to hunting, if this stuff keeps progressing none of us will be able to afford hunting, hunting should not be for profit!!

I agree
not good for residents ! when they can sell hunts for this kind of money !

[KB90]

You guys are looking at it the wrong way!!! It's great, it's only one tag and look at the money it brings for sheep!!!

[KB90]

BC Special Sheep Permit (http://bid.wildsheepfoundation.org/BC-Special-Sheep-Permit_i11637528)
Start Price: 90,000.00
High Bid: 250,000.00
SA-07 BRITISH COLUMBIA SPECIAL MOUNTAIN SHEEP PERMIT Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Fish, Wildlife and Habitat Management Branch and Habitat Conservation Trust Foundation P.O. Box 9391 STN PROV GOVT Victoria, British Columbia, Canada V8W 9M8 Contact: Ian Hatter (250) 387-9792 Booth #861 Attn: Special Permit Bidders:

A 5% buyer’s premium will be added to the final bid price of each special permit sold, unless prohibited by statute. Proceeds will be dedicated to WSF Conservation Initiatives. This permit is a premier opportunity to hunt your choice of thinhorn sheep (Dall’s and Stone’s) or bighorn sheep (California and Rocky Mountain) in B.C. The permit will be valid on any Crown land or private land (with owner’s permission) that has a legal sheep hunting season for 2012. The permit will be valid during the regular hunting season. In addition, the successful bidder will have a special opportunity to hunt for bighorn sheep until December 20, approximately 1 month past the end of the latest hunting season for bighorns. If the species of choice is a thinhorn sheep, the permit will be valid for an additional period of 21 days prior to the opening of the regular hunting season for thinhorn to March 31. There will only be one other person licensed to hunt sheep during these extended opportunities. The permit is valid for any male sheep.

The permit holder is required to purchase a sheep species license in order to hunt under the Special Permit. A sheep harvested under this permit is in addition to any applicable bag limit for sheep, however, the permit holder may only hold one uncancelled sheep species license at one time. If the permit holder wants to hunt under the normal provincial hunting regulation, they may do so in the same region or a different region as the Special Permit hunt. The permit holder is required to use the services of a licensed guide-outfitter in the area in which they choose to hunt. Representatives of the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations and the Guide Outfitters Association of British Columbia will be available at the Convention to assist and answer questions regarding this Permit. Guiding fees are negotiated between the permit holder and the guide outfitter and are in addition to the bid price for the Special Permit.

The Special Permit is non-transferable. In the event the permit holder does not, or cannot hunt, there is no refund of the bid price. The permit continues to raise significant funds for sheep management and conservation in B.C. Funds will be deposited in the Special Sheep Account with the Habitat Conservation Trust Fund. Under the direction of a special stakeholder committee, 75% of those funds will be used for sheep related projects in the province, while the remaining 25% can be used for other wildlife enhancement projects. For further information about this permit, please call either: Ian Hatter at (250) 387-9792, or Lynnie Roy at (250) 387-9725.

[ROEBUCK]

i hear you there kyle ,it does bring money in
but it also encourages the government that guided hunts are worth more than resident hunts !
they have just reduced the spring grizz draw allocations by 18% ! I wonder if the guides have had there numbers reduced or increased ?

[Devilbear]

I think its the downfall to hunting, if this stuff keeps progressing none of us will be able to afford hunting, hunting should not be for profit!!

I completely agree, this sort of bidding war by rich foreigners for special opportunities to "hunt" rare BC wildlife is assisting the demise of basic resident hunting in BC.

The funding for sheep can and, IMO, should be raised in other ways. A $2500.00 surcharge to GOs on every sheep killed on one of their $30,000 hunts in addition to the "trophy fees" now in place, would be one concept I would support. Let the rich foreigners PAY to kill our sheep!

[bighornbob]

I completely agree, this sort of bidding war by rich foreigners for special opportunities to "hunt" rare BC wildlife is assisting the demise of basic resident hunting in BC.

The funding for sheep can and, IMO, should be raised in other ways. A $2500.00 surcharge to GOs on every sheep killed on one of their $30,000 hunts in addition to the "trophy fees" now in place, would be one concept I would support. Let the rich foreigners PAY to kill our sheep!

A good idea in concept but the government would just keep the money and the guides would be against it as it might drive away some business.

The special sheep permits work as everyone involved (BCWF, GOABC, WSSOBC and government bios know that is the only way to get that kind of money for sheep projects with no one really opposed.

Bhb

[Mr. Dean]

Who was the fella with such a big heart?

[yukon john]

i hear you there kyle ,it does bring money in
but it also encourages the government that guided hunts are worth more than resident hunts !
they have just reduced the spring grizz draw allocations by 18% ! I wonder if the guides have had there numbers reduced or increased ?
The money goes back to the sheep, how much have you put towards sheep? And the GOs lost bear tags same as you not that that has anything to do with americans wanting to pay for sheep conservation. Think before you type, not everything is an attack on residents, if anything that money helps us.

[horshur]

It is fine to live in a utopian dream but when wildlife is cheap it gets passed over.....the more the sheep are worth the better it is for sheep.

[.300WSMImpact!]

The money goes back to the sheep, how much have you put towards sheep? And the GOs lost bear tags same as you not that that has anything to do with americans wanting to pay for sheep conservation. Think before you type, not everything is an attack on residents, if anything that money helps us.

we the province get a lot of money from gambling, is that ok? just because the money is used for good things doesn't make it ok,

[Mr. Dean]

we the province get a lot of money from gambling, is that ok? just because the money is used for good things doesn't make it ok,

Matter of opinion.
I have no problem with gaining off of others free will.

Be it Sheep or Slots.

[.300WSMImpact!]

It is fine to live in a utopian dream but when wildlife is cheap it gets passed over.....the more the sheep are worth the better it is for sheep.

why is it bad if they get passed over, less pressure more animals, you make it a money thing and all the rich just want it more, and us working poor will lose more and more opportunity

[BromBones]

we the province get a lot of money from gambling, is that ok? just because the money is used for good things doesn't make it ok,

Where else are you gonna come up with a quarter of a million dollars for sheep conservation?

It's only ONE tag.

[.300WSMImpact!]

Where else are you gonna come up with a quarter of a million dollars for sheep conservation?

It's only ONE tag.


it is a lot of money and I am sure it will get used well, doesn't mean I have to like it, just worries me for the future

[finngun]

that is how much per /lb??? hmmm

[ROEBUCK]

The money goes back to the sheep, how much have you put towards sheep? And the GOs lost bear tags same as you not that that has anything to do with americans wanting to pay for sheep conservation. Think before you type, not everything is an attack on residents, if anything that money helps us.

what a stupid post !

If you read my post you would have seen that i said the money was a good thing for sheep
but a guy paying 240,000 isnt good for us residents.
it just encourages the government to give more allocations to non residents and take opertunity away from bc tax paying residents !

[.300WSMImpact!]

[QUOTE=ROEBUCK;1072588]what a stupid post !

If you read my post you would have seen that i said the money was a good thing for sheep
but a guy paying 240,000 isnt good for us residents.
it just encourages the government to give more allocations to non residents and take opertunity away from bc tax paying residents ![/QUOTE

agreed, should be residents first and not for profit

[frenchbar]

that is how much per /lb??? Hmmm

its not about the meat !who ever bought it could care less about the meat ..

[horshur]

why is it bad if they get passed over, less pressure more animals, you make it a money thing and all the rich just want it more, and us working poor will lose more and more opportunity

what is winter range going for these days? The land is worth more then the animals on it!

[gitnadoix]

The idea in its intention is great, raise money that otherwise may not have been achievable. However, as many have said it is possibly a slippery slope......with carfully and closely monitered populations like sheep, the harvest of one animal may have an impact on future harvest levels. As long as these special draws are only ever for GOS areas and never exceed one animal then it should not be an issue. As the person who can spend 200+K for a tag could and probably would have hired a GO for the same year anyway so they are just actualy trying to put some extra $$ into the pot out of respect for the amazing oportunity that this province provides the hunting comunity...so I say thanks to who ever put in the donation......and to the govt....I say I am one of many who are watching to make sure they keep this idea under control....

[wiggy]

So where is this 250k actually going to be used? Noticed they also had a elk and mule deer draw in Alberta; i think they both went for 25 k. i do like what your saying gitnadoix. The guy that actually spent the dough must love the sheeps. He could spend a lot less then that on a guided guarantee multiseason deal.

[wiggy]

BIG LOTTO; BIG LOTTO; BIG LOTTO; PLEASE imagine hunting them in the off season; actually dont; probably like going to the zoo; great for cameras but i just dont see the sport in that;

[KB90]

So where is this 250k actually going to be used?

The permit continues to raise significant funds for sheep management and conservation in B.C. Funds will be deposited in the Special Sheep Account with the Habitat Conservation Trust Fund. Under the direction of a special stakeholder committee, 75% of those funds will be used for sheep related projects in the province, while the remaining 25% can be used for other wildlife enhancement projects.

[wiggy]

Thanks KB90; so who is on the special stakeholder committee and how did they get there? Is there public knowledge available to see where and what this committee is planning? Just curious ive been monitoriing some BH transplant herds and really like what im seeing. Great stuff and some of the transplant herds are really growing in numbers. PS boys i shoot coyotes on site whenever i can where ever i am in sheep country. They do like little lambers whenever they can.

[bugler]

I find it interesting that if you have enough money you can go ahead and do what that guy tried to get away with in Salmo a few years back. It is quite likely that the guy who bought it has been shown photos of the 200 inch bighorn that shows up on some winter range about a week after the season closes. Maybe it hangs out on an Elk Valley coal mine until after the regular season closes (happened a few years ago with this tag).

The North American Wildlife Management model is based on the notion that the wildlife belongs to everyone and that it is available to all the people to enjoy and hunt. This kind of stuff chips away at that notion.

Having the money for sheep conservation is great, but it's dirty, in my opinion. There has to be a better way.

What if they made it a lottery for the wild sheepers too, they can buy as many entries as they want to. Buddy could by $240K worth of tickets to up his odds of winning. I mean, if it's all about helping the sheep, $240k is nothing to those guys.

[91Jason91]

so this is for all the guilds and stuff or what?

[darkside]

hey bugler i like your thinking on this one everyone should have a crack at it not just some guy with a pocket full of money. to bad the rich guys run the world.darkside out

[yukon john]

hey bugler i like your thinking on this one everyone should have a crack at it not just some guy with a pocket full of money. to bad the rich guys run the world.darkside out

Some of you are incredible, YOU DO HAVE A CRACK AT IT!! its the special sheep permit. One goes to the residents and we can buy as many special sheep draws as we want for 17 bucks a pop the second tag is auctioned off to the higest bidder. Anyone complaining about not having a chance at this tag is out to lunch.

[Bear Chaser]

Anyone complaining about not having a chance at this tag is out to lunch.

I was thinking the same thing. I guess stupid is as stupid does.. or says in some of these guys cases.

Truth is the residents that put in for the special sheep draw have way better odds of getting it if they spend a tenth of what the auction winner just did than they do of showing up at an auction and chancing being outbid by several guys with deeper pockets.

[Maxx]

Some of you are incredible, YOU DO HAVE A CRACK AT IT!! its the special sheep permit. One goes to the residents and we can buy as many special sheep draws as we want for 17 bucks a pop the second tag is auctioned off to the higest bidder. Anyone complaining about not having a chance at this tag is out to lunch.

You are bang on. I for one am glad that we have the opportunity to draw this tag for 17 dollars.:wink:

[Onesock]

If they sell too many more tags for 1/4 mil the gov'y won't be selling us a tag for 17 bucks. While good for the sheep it is bad for resident hunters period. You have to wonder how much griz bear, moose,elk, goats and for that matter deer would be worth on the open market. You are right it was only one sheep NOW, how many in the future???????

[yukon john]

If they sell too many more tags for 1/4 mil the gov'y won't be selling us a tag for 17 bucks. While good for the sheep it is bad for resident hunters period. You have to wonder how much griz bear, moose,elk, goats and for that matter deer would be worth on the open market. You are right it was only one sheep NOW, how many in the future???????

It will be one in the future as well, all the money goes back to the sheep its not revenue for govt coffers so there is no reason for our politicians to expand. Its the same program in alberta and the yukon, nobody is messing with it so unless you want to fork over 240 grand for sheep consevation then dont bash the program. The general lack of knowlege from some of the hbc experts leads me to believe that they have never bought a sheep tag, hunted sheep or even walked more than 100 yards from their truck and cooler full of budweiser. Sooooooo why are you complaining about 1 generous human being that would fork over that much cash just to experience something we can have for a 60 dollar tag.

[Gateholio]

If they sell too many more tags for 1/4 mil the gov'y won't be selling us a tag for 17 bucks. While good for the sheep it is bad for resident hunters period. You have to wonder how much griz bear, moose,elk, goats and for that matter deer would be worth on the open market. You are right it was only one sheep NOW, how many in the future???????

Go to BC outiftters websites, they will tell you exactly how much these hunts cost on the open market.

[horshur]

I attached a link to the article that I cut from....the animals need to have value more then just sentimental. Read the article and think how this applies to us.

"Hunting bans across Africa have been relatively ineffective in protecting wildlife, as they reduce the value of wild animals and therefore reduce local interest in protecting the animals.5 Since the establishment of the hunting ban in Kenya in 1977, the country has recorded a decline in number by 40 to 90 percent in most animal species.6 Alternatively, hunting tourism has been extremely successful as it attaches an economic value to the wildlife and therefore encourages the cooperation of local people in conservation efforts for economic gain."


http://www.environmentmagazine.org/Archives/Back%20Issues/2011/July-August%202011/exploitation-or-conservation-full.html

[aggiehunter]

The gov't and us should be looking after wildlife...not rich americans...

[coach]

Am I missing something here? Where in the auction criteria are BC residents with deep pockets exempted from participating?? A quarter million dollars gets raised and that money goes to benefit animal populations in BC. How can this be spun into a negative?? One animal takes opportunity away from residents? How about $240,000 doesn't go into enhancement? How does that help things?

[1/2 slam]

Am I missing something here? Where in the auction criteria are BC residents with deep pockets exempted from participating?? A quarter million dollars gets raised and that money goes to benefit animal populations in BC. How can this be spun into a negative?? One animal takes opportunity away from residents? How about $240,000 doesn't go into enhancement? How does that help things?

Good post. If a resident wants to try and buy it go ahead there is nothing that I know that prevents it.

[boxhitch]

Wow, $240k and thats just for the permit. Lots more $$$ will be spent in BC before that head hangs on a wall.
Its a good day for wild sheep and wildlife in BC.
This permit is for one trophy animal that is considered to be surplus to the numbers needed for a healthy population, just like the permits BC residents can take advantage of.
Contentious ? Not really. Those involved have been OK with the idea since before the first permit was sold.


http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/magazine/nd02/SacrificialRam.asp

[hunter1947]

The rich can have it I would never pay for a permit coast of as this ,only if I had millions of $$$$$$$$$$.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The gov't and us should be looking after wildlife...not rich americans...

And with a good chunk of that $240,000, we will.

SSS

[Mr. Dean]

We NEED coin for conservation - That's a fact.
Then WHY kick the ones in the balls that are being soooooo generous in donating to OUR plights and pleads???

Personally, I would donate the winning draw tag if I were to ever win one, HAPPILY, if it meant a net return like this.

[bowhunterbruce]

with all the talk of the guys that seem to think this is a bad thing,give your head a shake.75% of this money goes directly to sheep enhancement efforts and the rest goes into other conservation efforts.
thats 180,000 dollars helping one of our greatest natural assets.it is just one animal out of the entire province.
its not like us residents don't have the same oppertunity for just the cost of a tag and a little effort.
alot of the residents here certinally dont have the money to throw into an action of this caliber and i'm pretty sure that most wouldn't do it if they did.
i have been to many a fundraisers and seen exactly how cheap most bc residents are and imo if more residents were to put in half the effort of working towards helping our own wildlife as donators like this have,this province would be 2nd to none in the world for availablity of the resorces we have just by living here.
bhb

[325]

I like it. Just so happy that I can hunt sheep with a $60 tag.

[David Heitsman]

Let the rich foreigners PAY to kill our sheep!

DB, this seems so unlike you... having foreigners killiing our sheep?

Actually it was a Canadian that bought this tag and I for one salute him/her and all the other bidders on this tremendous opportunity. It's a great day for sheep in BC. Now let's get the elk permit back up and running!

[Devilbear]

My opinions on issues such as foreign hunting in BC-Canada, are influenced by the feelings of some other hunters, here and in the USA, whom I respect, like and even admire. Guys like "Chilcotin Hillbilly" a newcomer in the GO industry, but, a decent, honest and gutsy guy who has guided for some years and now has his own concession plus some Yanks, whom I respect because they behave like gentlemen have convinced me to go slowly with respect to bans on "non-resident aliens" and concentrate on the immediate threats to hunting, such as the disgraceful scam of allowing special "rights" based on "race" and the rabid antis of the N.D.P., etc.

I am concerned with Canadian sovereignity, cultural survival, resource allocation equity and conservation in all of it's genuine forms; I will do what I consider appropriate in both moral and environmental terms to assure that the preceding concerns are given the respect and implementation in policy that they and we Canucks deserve. So, I am not going to pursue a "ban" of any sort at present or in the immediate future. Capiche?

[Hunt'n Guide]

DB, this seems so unlike you... having foreigners killiing our sheep?

Actually it was a Canadian that bought this tag and I for one salute him/her and all the other bidders on this tremendous opportunity. It's a great day for sheep in BC. Now let's get the elk permit back up and running!

I was gong to point out that there is nothing stopping Canadians from going the the convention and bidding. Lots of Canadian members good to see someone step up and put some cash out there for the wildlife.

[bugler]

Guys, your $60 dollar sheep tag does not allow you to hunt outside of the regular season, and I ain't saying I want to hunt outside the regular season. This tag allows that, go poach a sheep on winter range if you have the money, it's all good. I doubt that the buyer is some sort of sheep philanthropist. My guess is he just wants to show up at the convention next year with a top ten bighorn or stone. If it was all about his generosity he could put into the draw with the rest of us and take his chances, buy 240K worth of lottery tickets.

My own opinion, this kind of thing is not good for hunting in the long run. Dirty money.

[aggiehunter]

The next time a Canadian buys it make sure you post it on here please...

[coach]

The next time a Canadian buys it make sure you post it on here please...

Did you read post #47?

[coach]

Guys, your $60 dollar sheep tag does not allow you to hunt outside of the regular season, and I ain't saying I want to hunt outside the regular season. This tag allows that, go poach a sheep on winter range if you have the money, it's all good. I doubt that the buyer is some sort of sheep philanthropist. My guess is he just wants to show up at the convention next year with a top ten bighorn or stone. If it was all about his generosity he could put into the draw with the rest of us and take his chances, buy 240K worth of lottery tickets.

My own opinion, this kind of thing is not good for hunting in the long run. Dirty money.

He can't put into the draw, unless he's a BC resident. I believe we went through that one earlier this year.

Is $240,000 toward wildlife enhancement not significant?

[aggiehunter]

So what's the rich canucks name...his or her? Sure that's legal....so I can just go and buy a Rocky Mtn Sheep or Cali tag from the local BC guideoutfitter?

[MountainHigh]

My insiders tell me the tag holder may chase another giant Stone Sheep!

[yama49]

My insiders tell me the tag holder may chase another giant Stone Sheep!


Thats what i would chase if i was from out of province... If i got the special draw for residents, not sure what i would go after..

[wiggy]

So what's the rich canucks name...his or her? Sure that's legal....so I can just go and buy a Rocky Mtn Sheep or Cali tag from the local BC guideoutfitter?

Hey Aggiehunter; you bet; even in Leh areas. This is the crazy thing and something ive been argueing about forever; LEH should be LEH for everyone including the outfitters As for the draw the good thing is 75 percent of this dough is going to help our sheep and you gotta dig that. What can we do to raise this kinda dough. Rubber sheepie floaties race. Winner gets to hunt all year till he kills whatever he wants; 20 bucks a sheepie floatie. Or maybe a good sheep calendar that only has pictures of rams in gos or leh areas.

[coach]

Sooner or later all of the members of the hunting community need to work through their differences and work together. Kudos to those involved in raising this money! The benefits will be enjoyed by residents, GO's and, yes, their wealthy clients - who are also hunters.

[David Heitsman]

so I can just go and buy a Rocky Mtn Sheep or Cali tag from the local BC guideoutfitter?

No problem. Didn't used to be that way though. Fortunately the rules changed a few years ago to allow BC residents to hunt with an outfitter if they so choose.

[6616]

So what's the rich canucks name...his or her? Sure that's legal....so I can just go and buy a Rocky Mtn Sheep or Cali tag from the local BC guideoutfitter?

There are lots of GOS areas for BC residents where all you need is an over the counter resident sheep tag, $60.00.

All the permit holder is actually buying is the extended season, he still has to buy his BC sheep tag, use an licensed outfitter, and follow all the regulations.

This is the best thing that ever happened for sheep conservation in BC. Over 3 million dollars have been raised over the years. We've applied and used a good portion of it in the EK for bighorn conservation activities. I know it seems a little dicy regarding fair chase and public ownership of wildlife, North American Conservation Model, etc, but this one exception has proved to be worth it as demonstrated by the many States and Provinces that do it. $240,000.00 certainly is seriously "significant" for sheep conservation....!

[Deaddog]

There are lots of GOS areas for BC residents where all you need is an over the counter resident sheep tag, $60.00.

All the permit holder is actually buying is the extended season, he still has to buy his BC sheep tag, use an licensed outfitter, and follow all the regulations.

This is the best thing that ever happened for sheep conservation in BC. Over 3 million dollars have been raised over the years. We've applied and used a good portion of it in the EK for bighorn conservation activities. I know it seems a little dicy regarding fair chase and public ownership of wildlife, North American Conservation Model, etc, but this one exception has proved to be worth it as demonstrated by the many States and Provinces that do it. $240,000.00 certainly is seriously "significant" for sheep conservation....!

By far the most accurate statement yet, the special sheep tag has been an exeception, it has been managed extremely well by all parties involved, the money raised is crucial for the ongoing health of our herds..... DD

[Slee]

Actually it was a Canadian that bought this tag and I for one salute him/her and all the other bidders on this tremendous opportunity.

Did Jim buy the tag after having the other one taken away?

[Rackmastr]

Did Jim buy the tag after having the other one taken away?

I heard rumors it was a female buyer....but not positive.

[2tins]

I think its the downfall to hunting, if this stuff keeps progressing none of us will be able to afford hunting, hunting should not be for profit!!
If one tag goes for $240k how much of that goes to concervation and habitat for the province? And how will this affect resident hunters?

[6616]

If one tag goes for $240k how much of that goes to concervation and habitat for the province? And how will this affect resident hunters?

I believe the Foundation gets 10% for auctioning the tag at their convention. The rest goes into the special fund and is all used for conservation in BC, 75% for sheep and 25% for other species. 100% of the revenue from the resident draw goes into the special fund.

It doesn't effect resident hunters in any way. The two tags (resident and non-resident) are not included in the AAH and do not come off anyones allocation. There is no conservation concern since it's limited to two animals. Even though a disporportionate number of these sheep have been harvested in the Elk Valley, I really can't see a conservation concern in shooting 10+ year old rams.

[kootenayelkslayer]

Does anyone know the name of the lucky bidder??

[rides bike to work]

f the buyer realy wanted to help the sheep he would re auction off the tag and give all that money to the sheep

[grumps]

I can't believe the protest by the anti's we have sheep here to hunt GOS. this money as well as the elk permit goes along way to improve habitat and fund other projects in BC. I do belirve in the pasts tags were not filled,the hunter enjoyed the experince,went home empty handed and left the money to be spent to the benefit of wildlife in BC. just my opinion GRUMPS

[Bear Chaser]

f the buyer realy wanted to help the sheep he would re auction off the tag and give all that money to the sheep

Seriously?

The people who bid on these tags at auctions usually spend more at various fundraisers EVERY YEAR than the average hunter will donate in his entire lifetime.

[coach]

There are lots of GOS areas for BC residents where all you need is an over the counter resident sheep tag, $60.00.

This is the best thing that ever happened for sheep conservation in BC. Over 3 million dollars have been raised over the years. We've applied and used a good portion of it in the EK for bighorn conservation activities.

Would bighorn sheep in the EK still be on GOS if it wasn't for significant funds coming from events like this? (A question that I'm sure 6616 can answer - but asked for all of us to ponder). Healthy herds do not happen by accident.

This money benefits us - the resident hunters of BC as well as the GO business. I still can't believe the negativity coming from many people on this thread. How many of those who are against this would forfit the special resident sheep tag if they were lucky enough to draw it?

Through my work, I have been involved in countless charity fundraisers for multiple different causes. The people who participate in these events and bid (seemingly) obscene amounts on items such as this do so because they want to support the cause of the charity. How can this generosity be viewed by so many as selfish?

[Mr. Dean]

The people who participate in these events and bid (seemingly)
obscene amounts on items such as this do so because they want to support the cause of the charity.

How can this generosity be viewed by so many as selfish?


It amazes me too.
I just chalk it up to emotional urges instead of informed/educated opinions, due to not wanting to *become* informed.

For some, ignorance is bliss and they're contented with being so... It's a Life Style choice. :wink:

[Devilbear]

The major problem that I see with these lotteries of opportunities to hunt/kill in extended seasons, is that they provide a source of funding for wildlife conservation that then takes the place of the funds from licences, etc., that government SHOULD provide. They also tend to change hunting from an accessible, traditional activity for average citizens to a specialized "sport" engaged in by only those wealthy enough to afford it, as in Europe and many other areas of the world.

I am well aware that the funds generated by this type of "allocation" can and have been beneficial to sheep and other BC wildlife, however, what would happen if the "government", as "owners" of the wildlife resource, unilaterally chose to issue 10 or 100 of these lottery tags to fund all wildlife management in BC? That, CAN and very well MAY happen and it WILL have a negative effect upon resident hunting here.

There, has been a slow but steady move towards "privatization" of our outdoor resources for some years now and it always results in more for wealthy participants and less for average people. We have commercial operations in our provincial wilderness parks that try to keep we average peons out so their wealthy foreign clients will not have to experience the emotional trauma of encountering one of us and the GOs boast of the lack of residents in their remote areas....."the writing is on the wall", IMHO and I would prefer ALL funding for resource management come exclusively from resident taxes and licences and not this type of extravaganza, YMMV.

[CanuckShooter]

I support the auction fully, and think it should be expanded. Why stick to just sheep, lets have one for wolves, grizzly bear, cougar, elk etc. the massive influx of monies going towards conservation would be worth it. Most of us have a difficult time garnering an LEH tag anyway, so what does one more out of the bucket hurt if it can raise so much money for conserving the resource we all enjoy?

[Onesock]

There is no doubt that the money will go along ways in helping wildlife. You have to think down the road a bit. Not so long ago no one on here would have thought about registering your hunting rifle? Once agian the money will aid wildlife but politicians change every year and no one knows what is coming down the road.

[bighornbob]

what would happen if the "government", as "owners" of the wildlife resource, unilaterally chose to issue 10 or 100 of these lottery tags to fund all wildlife management in BC? .

What would happen is no one would buy them. These are special tags because there is only one. The guys that buy these want to be the only one hunting in the woods. I dont know if its a ego thing or what but I could care less if someone drops that kind of money.

One year at the Wild Sheep of BC meeting this tag was brought. Concerns brought up were too many of the sheep (one a year) were killed out of the East Kootenays (specifically the Line creek herd) and also if one tag brings in 100,000+ lets get another tag. A member in the know (who know most of the buyers personally) said "as soon as you put limitations on the tag (like a ram cant be taken from the same region 2 years in a row) or there are a number of tags issued the guys that buy them will stop buying them." Look at the alberta tag, the guys that usually buys that tag will have 10 guides out there looking through every known big ram hangout all over the province. Do you think they would spend the big money if there were 5 guys hunting. No these tags produce the big money becuase they are the only guy out there.

BHB

[bighornbob]

Why stick to just sheep, lets have one for wolves, grizzly bear, cougar, elk etc.

Sheep are the prized species and usually its the sheep guys that have the money and are willing to spend it. Also sheep tend to leave the cliffs/timber/parks/mines where thye have been hiding all hunting season and go to their winter grounds. Also none of the other animals in the province are worth that kind of money. Answer these questiosn 1) what animals could you hunt here on a special tag that you cant already hunt in the regular season? 2) is this animal one of the largest in north america 3)would an extra month of hunting help.

Here are list of animals and why it would not work in BC:

RM elk. Elk are way bigger in Arizona and easier to hunt in their open terrain.
Mule deer. Way bigger down south and when they move from the mountains to the sage brush flats are easier to hunt.
Moose. An outfitter up north can fly around and find big bulls during a regular guided hunt.
Cougar. Good luck on that one. No one in their right mind would pay big bucks for this one.
Grizz. Way bigger grizz in alaska.

Other states do other animals, like shiras moose and mountain goat which are highly prized down there and tags sell for around $5000. A drop in the bucket compared to the same states sheep tag money.

As you can see it would not be worth it. Rosies are the exception as there are big numbers here and big bulls. Even then that tag never brought in the large money that sheep do.

BHB

[bighornbob]

Once agian the money will aid wildlife but politicians change every year and no one knows what is coming down the road.

The one good thing is the tags are always sold at the Sheep Foundation Meeting in Reno. They would not sell the tag if the support of the WSSOBC, GOABC and BCWF was pulled. They are sheep minded people and if they knew the money was not going into sheep projects they would not sell it and most of the people that buy it now would also not buy it.

BHB

[Devilbear]

The northern coastal Grizzlies in BC are as large as those in Alaska, the RM Goats are becoming ever more of a "status symbol" trophy as wild sheep have been for many decades and, I tink that IF the BC Gov't. WERE to auction ten tags, ALL of them would sell and for major bux.

So, while I see your point, I am not in favour of this situation and do not want these foreign-based organizations, such as "RMEF", "FNAWS" and others to have ANY influence in or participation in ANY BC resource management issue. I want BC people to make the decisions and ONLY BC people.

I think that we WILL see more of this in the coming decade and I abhore it.

[David Heitsman]

...do not want these foreign-based organizations, such as "RMEF", "FNAWS" and others to have ANY influence in or participation in ANY BC resource management issue. BC people.



These groups are merely a conduit to the auction process. I for one would like to see the tag rotated and auctioned at BCWF, GOABC and WSSoBC conventions annually but it wouldn't garner the attention and resources that it deserves when auctioned internationally. As to the fee the groups levy to auction it, there are costs associated with these conventions and the fee goes to offset these and also advertising costs for the tag. BC based conservation groups can also
submit funding requests to these international bodies for projects here in BC.

As to other species, the elk needs to be re-instated.

If you want to raise some serious conservation $$... dare I say it... let a Kermode tag go!

[KB90]

If you want to raise some serious conservation $$... dare I say it... let a Kermode tag go!

I like your thinking! Do you think it would go for as much as a sheep? more?

[6616]

BC based conservation groups can also submit funding requests to these international bodies for projects here in BC.

Back in the early to mid 2000's (final report dated 2007) the East Kootenay Region of the BCWF (EKWA) undertook a 5 year, $650,000.00 bighorn sheep population and habitat assessment project. The results of this project are of critical importance today in guiding the eco-system restoration program and other habitat enhancement activities in the EK since we can now prioritize the sheep winter range in terms of importance to sheep, carrying capacity, and range condition needs. This follow-up work has benefitted elk, deer and overall eco-system functionallity immeasurably, as well as domestic cattle grazing in the EK to some extent. This project was co-funded by the EKWA clubs, Wild Sheep Society of BC, the HCTF, and the special sheep fund, but the majority of the funding came from the Eastern Chapter of FNAWS.

[Devilbear]

Some years ago, there was a brouhaha between Yankee commercial fishermen and BC fishermen over catching Salmon in Canadian territorial waters; the Yanks, as is so often the case with them, angrily asserted that, since the US Army Corps of Engineers assisted with removal of a landslide blocking spawning Salmon in the Fraser River at "Hell's Gate" in 1913, they DESERVED to catch BC Salmon!

Just a few weeks ago, one of Obama's head boffins, commenting on the "Gateway" project, flatly stated that "it is best to keep that oil in North America" AND "Canada and the USA are really ONE entity when it comes to security and energy supply".......

If, I had known that this lottery was operated at some Yankee outfit in Reno, NV, I would have been far more adamant in opposition to it than I have been thus far. The wild sheep in the Kootenays and in ALL of BC belong to we who were born here, first and foremost and I DO NOT WANT Yankees involved with them in any respect. I do not care what Yankees want and if this continues, they WILL try to claim that they have some RIGHT to a share of OUR sheep because they spent their money on them.........F**K THAT!!!!

I guess I have been getting too "soft" and it seems as though the Yankees are coming to dominate and control more of BC's best hunting and game with every passing year. This, must stop and it will stop, no matter what it takes.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Sheep are the prized species and usually its the sheep guys that have the money and are willing to spend it. Also sheep tend to leave the cliffs/timber/parks/mines where thye have been hiding all hunting season and go to their winter grounds. Also none of the other animals in the province are worth that kind of money. Answer these questiosn 1) what animals could you hunt here on a special tag that you cant already hunt in the regular season? 2) is this animal one of the largest in north america 3)would an extra month of hunting help.

Here are list of animals and why it would not work in BC:

RM elk. Elk are way bigger in Arizona and easier to hunt in their open terrain.
Mule deer. Way bigger down south and when they move from the mountains to the sage brush flats are easier to hunt.
Moose. An outfitter up north can fly around and find big bulls during a regular guided hunt.
Cougar. Good luck on that one. No one in their right mind would pay big bucks for this one.
Grizz. Way bigger grizz in alaska.

Other states do other animals, like shiras moose and mountain goat which are highly prized down there and tags sell for around $5000. A drop in the bucket compared to the same states sheep tag money.

As you can see it would not be worth it. Rosies are the exception as there are big numbers here and big bulls. Even then that tag never brought in the large money that sheep do.

BHB

Not to mention...those g-bears are tough to hunt on winter range.

SSS

[Devilbear]

The easy way to hunt G-Bears in the Kootenays has always been to use the hardened old slides full of snow to gain altitude and then glass the slopes beginning to "greenup". The bruins also will constantly check the retreating bottom ends of these slides for winter-killed animals to feed off of and if you find a good spot on the edge of a slide and have patience, you will probably be rewarded with a good opportunity at a shot at a big boy. Most guys used to hunt this way.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The easy way to hunt G-Bears in the Kootenays has always been to use the hardened old slides full of snow to gain altitude and then glass the slopes beginning to "greenup". The bruins also will constantly check the retreating bottom ends of these slides for winter-killed animals to feed off of and if you find a good spot on the edge of a slide and have patience, you will probably be rewarded with a good opportunity at a shot at a big boy. Most guys used to hunt this way.

A person can do that with a regular LEH draw or even with hiring a GO. Buying a high-priced "Special Permit" won't give any advantage so it won't bring in the big $.

SSS

[coach]

A couple of questions:

1 - How much money does the Special Mountain Sheep Resident Draw bring in annually?
2 - How is the money generated from the SMSRD allocated?
3 - Is the BC Special Sheep Permit connected in any way to the resident draw? IE: Could the Special Sheep Permit be auctioned off if the resident draw is not available?

[bighornbob]

The northern coastal Grizzlies in BC are as large as those in Alaska, the RM Goats are becoming ever more of a "status symbol" trophy as wild sheep have been for many decades.

You are correct but you can buy one of those tags off an outfitter. Just like our Skeena goat LEH hunts that go to mid February, an outfitter has the same tags. So why buy a special goat permit, when there are probably 10 available through the guide and outfitters.

BHB

[Mr. Dean]

If you want to raise some serious conservation $$... dare I say it... let a Kermode tag go!

You said it - I didn't.


But I would 2nd it. :wink:

[Deaddog]

sad to see how uninformed some are, a great deal of money as 6616 has previously stated that has helped our wild sheep has come from the U.S. .. for those that cry foul and we should not touch any of it.. what is your solution?? also this past spring when a few more thousand dollars was required to complete a project of lamb retention, the rest of the funding partners had spent their budgets Eastern FNAWS once again stepped in and assisted financially, these same people gladly pay the full amount for their guided hunts IF and when they come to bc to hunt.. there are people out there that truly care about conservation anywhere... we have lots of those people in BC....when it comes to sheep the USA has been critical in helping us out, not just from a finincial point but from research as well, we have used a ton of research from their facilities to help understand the wild domestic issue's and possible solution's, In BC we used this information to position ourselves as a leader in Wild Domestic Issues, should we ignore the information because it came from the U.S. ....we are all in this together, fighting for wild animals (not just sheep) to remain wild and free,..we can use all the help we can get, from wherever we can get it from..... Coach,.. the agreement is that if there is opportunity for a lottery tag that there will be a raffle tag for residents... I support this idea and so far it has been working well the resident tag money for the special sheep goes into the same fund.. Jim

[bighornbob]

A couple of questions:

1 - How much money does the Special Mountain Sheep Resident Draw bring in annually?
2 - How is the money generated from the SMSRD allocated?
3 - Is the BC Special Sheep Permit connected in any way to the resident draw? IE: Could the Special Sheep Permit be auctioned off if the resident draw is not available?

1) I think about 10-15 grand but I may be wrong. Someone may have a better number.
2) The special sheep money goes into a special HCTF account and 75% has to be used for sheep projects while the other %25 goes for other wildlife projects. I am pretty sure a member of each of the BCWF, GOABC and WSSOBC sit on that board and decide which projects the money goes too.
3) They go hand in hand, there is No the auction tag unless the residents get a tag as a special LEH.

BHB

[coach]

Coach,.. the agreement is that if there is opportunity for a lottery tag that there will be a raffle tag for residents... I support this idea and so far it has been working well the resident tag money for the special sheep goes into the same fund.. Jim

Thanks, Jim. I assumed this was how things worked.

[Devilbear]

sad to see how uninformed some are, a great deal of money as 6616 has previously stated that has helped our wild sheep has come from the U.S. .. for those that cry foul and we should not touch any of it.. what is your solution?? also this past spring when a few more thousand dollars was required to complete a project of lamb retention, the rest of the funding partners had spent their budgets Eastern FNAWS once again stepped in and assisted financially, these same people gladly pay the full amount for their guided hunts IF and when they come to bc to hunt.. there are people out there that truly care about conservation anywhere... we have lots of those people in BC....when it comes to sheep the USA has been critical in helping us out, not just from a finincial point but from research as well, we have used a ton of research from their facilities to help understand the wild domestic issue's and possible solution's, In BC we used this information to position ourselves as a leader in Wild Domestic Issues, should we ignore the information because it came from the U.S. ....we are all in this together, fighting for wild animals (not just sheep) to remain wild and free,..we can use all the help we can get, from wherever we can get it from..... Coach,.. the agreement is that if there is opportunity for a lottery tag that there will be a raffle tag for residents... I support this idea and so far it has been working well the resident tag money for the special sheep goes into the same fund.. Jim

There are several errors in this screed and I will correct some of them, commencing with the statements concerning ...research.... I studied biology at Selkirk College and Simon Fraser, receiving "A" levels in the courses I undertook. I am not an "RPBio", but, wildlife biology has been a major interest of mine for over 50 years and I have spent a LOT of time in the bush. So, I am very aware that scientists use research from many sources and tend to prefer work done by others who do not have a financial interest in the results. Consequently, the research one uses is drawn from many nations.

The next point is that being ...uninformed... is not the same as disagreeing with the use of foreign funding for BC conservation issues. This, is a distortion of my meaning in my previous post and it is, simply, wrong. I do not claim to be an "expert" on wild sheep or any other aspect of conservation in BC, however, I have been involved in it for decades and am not easily convinced by rhetoric or claims that tend to bolster the position of those with whom I may not concur on scientific or social issues. Again, I DO NOT WANT Yankees influencing BC resource issues and there are alternatives.

I do not think that accepting foreign "hunters" as equal participants/partners in BC wildlife or other resource decisions is beneficial to we residents and this has been obvious in many aspects of BC hunting for far too long. NO, we are NOT ...all in this together... and it is foolish to expect the Yankees to send funds here continually without expecting a "payback". The history of Yankee attempts to control the resources of others is long and bloody and demonstrates just how much they ...care... about others.

Some here may diagree and that is fine, however, I consider this method of fundraising to be inimical to the best interests of we resident hunters in the long run and am opposed to any further such auctions.

[bighornbob]

NO, we are NOT ...all in this together... and it is foolish to expect the Yankees to send funds here continually without expecting a "payback".

You are correct, their payback is the in the way of being allowed to come here and hunt. If they were banned from hunting up here I would guarentee that the money would dry up and fast. So where would that leave us.

Lets see schools closing, people sleeping in hallways in hospitals, small town without doctors etc etc and then there are the 1200 or so resident sheep hunters wanting money for a study to see why the sheep are dying on the Fraser River. Or a fence to keep out domestic sheep. HHMM where will the government spend the money???? I could see the headlines now, Government Spends $10,000 on Sheep Fence While the Town of Ashcroft Cant Pay For a Local Doctor. It's easier for the Gov. to close hunting of sheep then it is to find out why the sheep are dying, why because 99% of British Columbians that live here dont give a s**t if there are mountain sheep left, especially when less then 1% of the people that want them also want to hunt them???

What you cant get through your thick skull is not only are we fighting a battle against anti's but also people that would rather have their kids go to a neighborhood school, or daycare costs covered, or for heaveans sake a doctor in their little town (how dare these self centered *******s). Times have changed and its a new world, we cant rely on governments for money anymore, we have to be creative and this tag is one way. Another way would be to have Old Kootenay or Devilbear at a Dunk Tank booth at the GOABC convention. I am sure that would raise some money for the animals of BC.


BHB

[horshur]

well said !!!

[Devilbear]

My, my, such rancour in the heart of BHB and, it seems, his buddy, Horshur, I am so saddened by the animosity shown by these stalwart fellows, it simply disheartens me. Of course, it is what one expects, considering the source.

So, it is obvious, then, that my supposition here is correct and the Yankees, far from being as selfless as "deaddog" attests in this instance, are actually, attempting to "buy" the continued ability to hunt rare BC wild sheep. This, was obvious to me, but, some here have rather limited powers of comprehension and this is also obvious in the preceeding rant.

If, we SELL our sheep hunting this way and that is what is happening, it will mean less and less available for we resident hunters. This, may not concern some of these members and supporters of the GOABC, such as BHB and his buddy, but, I think that it greatly concerns most BC citizens, we resident hunters in particular. If, BHB's estimates are correct, he seems to think that fewer than 1% of BC people hunt sheep and my feeling is, why alienate the 99% who do not, as, IMO, encouraging the sale of this tag at a foreign meeting of wealthy foreign "trophy" collectors is sure to do?

Too many here are too willing to sell rare BC wildlife to foreigners, IMHO and, btw, to offer a "Kermode" tag would be beyond stupid, as it would arouse a public outcry greater than that to preserve "South Moresby" and, we all know how that went......

[heshootshescores]

So where do you stand on the dunk tank idea?

[huntwriter]

You are correct, their payback is the in the way of being allowed to come here and hunt. If they were banned from hunting up here I would guarentee that the money would dry up and fast. So where would that leave us.

Lets see schools closing, people sleeping in hallways in hospitals, small town without doctors etc etc and then there are the 1200 or so resident sheep hunters wanting money for a study to see why the sheep are dying on the Fraser River. Or a fence to keep out domestic sheep. HHMM where will the government spend the money???? I could see the headlines now, Government Spends $10,000 on Sheep Fence While the Town of Ashcroft Cant Pay For a Local Doctor. It's easier for the Gov. to close hunting of sheep then it is to find out why the sheep are dying, why because 99% of British Columbians that live here dont give a s**t if there are mountain sheep left, especially when less then 1% of the people that want them also want to hunt them???

What you cant get through your thick skull is not only are we fighting a battle against anti's but also people that would rather have their kids go to a neighborhood school, or daycare costs covered, or for heaveans sake a doctor in their little town (how dare these self centered *******s). Times have changed and its a new world, we cant rely on governments for money anymore, we have to be creative and this tag is one way. Another way would be to have Old Kootenay or Devilbear at a Dunk Tank booth at the GOABC convention. I am sure that would raise some money for the animals of BC.


BHB

Very well said.

[bighornbob]

Who is writing this, can't be devil bear as there was nothing mentioned about being a BC resident for 65 years or all his experience in the outdoors or working in the outdoors for 50 plus years in the first sentence. Someone must have hacked his user name???


My, my, such rancour in the heart of BHB and, it seems, his buddy, Horshur, I am so saddened by the animosity shown by these stalwart fellows, it simply disheartens me. Of course, it is what one expects, considering the source.

So, it is obvious, then, that my supposition here is correct and the Yankees, far from being as selfless as "deaddog" attests in this instance, are actually, attempting to "buy" the continued ability to hunt rare BC wild sheep. This, was obvious to me, but, some here have rather limited powers of comprehension and this is also obvious in the preceeding rant.

If, we SELL our sheep hunting this way and that is what is happening, it will mean less and less available for we resident hunters. This, may not concern some of these members and supporters of the GOABC, such as BHB and his buddy, but, I think that it greatly concerns most BC citizens, we resident hunters in particular. If, BHB's estimates are correct, he seems to think that fewer than 1% of BC people hunt sheep and my feeling is, why alienate the 99% who do not, as, IMO, encouraging the sale of this tag at a foreign meeting of wealthy foreign "trophy" collectors is sure to do?

Too many here are too willing to sell rare BC wildlife to foreigners, IMHO and, btw, to offer a "Kermode" tag would be beyond stupid, as it would arouse a public outcry greater than that to preserve "South Moresby" and, we all know how that went......

[KB90]

Or his "A" grades in Biology

[Devilbear]

Yet, again, the inability to comprehend simple English prose is, sadly, demonstrated in BHB's post. The falsehood, innuendo and foolish personal jab at me will hardly benefit the sheep or his agenda, but, WTF, BHB is merely an amusing guy with an attitude and not worth becoming "fashed" over.

[Devilbear]

KB90, I wonder, would you be a "guide" or maybe one of what we used to call "Occy boys"? These, were the guys at the rear of the classroom in high school, who could not read beyond Grade Four level, had repeated three grades and were what was euphemistically known as "General Programme Students". Some called them "morons" and even "imbeciles", however, I was and am far too polite to use terms such as those and I just laugh at such types.

BTW, nice Moose, in your avatar, I would love to shoot one that big, especially wihout using a spotter 'plane, eh!

[KB90]

Thanks! although the picture makes it look bigger than it is.

[coach]

KB90, I wonder, would you be a "guide" or maybe one of what we used to call "Occy boys"? These, were the guys at the rear of the classroom in high school, who could not read beyond Grade Four level, had repeated three grades and were what was euphemistically known as "General Programme Students". Some called them "morons" and even "imbeciles", however, I was and am far too polite to use terms such as those and I just laugh at such types.

BTW, nice Moose, in your avatar, I would love to shoot one that big, especially wihout using a spotter 'plane, eh!

What a completely classless post, Devilbear. I would expect much better from a man as educated and experienced as yourself. With a quick look at KB90's profile you could have found this thread about the moose in his avatar: http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?75435-My-First-Moose-amp-some-other-pictures. KB is here for the reason most of us are - he likes to talk hunting and share his experiences. How about sticking to the topic at hand?

[Devilbear]

I merely gave him back a little of his own behaviour as I find the personal jabs here, which I did not initiate, to be best dealt with by a little humour and just a bit of backlash as I am not going to sit back and allow some poster(s) to denigrate me. I could have taken the issue to a far greater level of epistolary antagonism, however, chose to just say enough to make it apparent that "what goes around, comes around".

I agree, we should ALL, you included, stick to the topic at hand and I will, henceforth, do just that. So, if everyone has had their fun, let's discuss sheep, funding, foreign influences/control and other such issues and thus not arouse the ire of the goodly "coach" as I would not want to be responsible for his sustaining a "myocardial infarction" on HBC, due to stress from reading this thread.

[Deaddog]

There are several errors in this screed and I will correct some of them, commencing with the statements concerning ...research.... I studied biology at Selkirk College and Simon Fraser, receiving "A" levels in the courses I undertook. I am not an "RPBio", but, wildlife biology has been a major interest of mine for over 50 years and I have spent a LOT of time in the bush. So, I am very aware that scientists use research from many sources and tend to prefer work done by others who do not have a financial interest in the results. Consequently, the research one uses is drawn from many nations.

The next point is that being ...uninformed... is not the same as disagreeing with the use of foreign funding for BC conservation issues. This, is a distortion of my meaning in my previous post and it is, simply, wrong. I do not claim to be an "expert" on wild sheep or any other aspect of conservation in BC, however, I have been involved in it for decades and am not easily convinced by rhetoric or claims that tend to bolster the position of those with whom I may not concur on scientific or social issues. Again, I DO NOT WANT Yankees influencing BC resource issues and there are alternatives.

I do not think that accepting foreign "hunters" as equal participants/partners in BC wildlife or other resource decisions is beneficial to we residents and this has been obvious in many aspects of BC hunting for far too long. NO, we are NOT ...all in this together... and it is foolish to expect the Yankees to send funds here continually without expecting a "payback". The history of Yankee attempts to control the resources of others is long and bloody and demonstrates just how much they ...care... about others.

Some here may diagree and that is fine, however, I consider this method of fundraising to be inimical to the best interests of we resident hunters in the long run and am opposed to any further such auctions.


DB, first off my comments were not intended for you . .... that said what is your alternatives to outside funding.....???

[Devilbear]

Good question and what I really think is worth discussing. I will post some thoughts on this tomorrow morning as I have a rifle to assemble now to ship up north.

[1/2 slam]

What a completely classless post, Devilbear. I would expect much better from a man as educated and experienced as yourself. With a quick look at KB90's profile you could have found this thread about the moose in his avatar: http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?75435-My-First-Moose-amp-some-other-pictures. KB is here for the reason most of us are - he likes to talk hunting and share his experiences. How about sticking to the topic at hand?

Is he? I've yet to see a hunt report or photo from him.

[rides bike to work]

hey i got an idea of how to raise money for cancer research lets auction of the right to pull the plug on someone to some rich sick .Its for the greater good dont you know. If you look hard at big money there is evil behind it somewhere.The only good money is earnedd through hard work which this is not.

[Downwind]

hey i got an idea of how to raise money for cancer research lets auction of the right to pull the plug on someone to some rich sick .Its for the greater good dont you know. If you look hard at big money there is evil behind it somewhere.The only good money is earnedd through hard work which this is not.

To quote Billy Madison:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[KB90]

Hahahahahaah

[Bear Chaser]

LOL. Now that is funny. Way better than what I came up with.

I was just going to suggest auctioning off a tag for a motorist to take out any cyclist anytime anywhere.


Now my inadequacy with the computer is exposed for all to see.:cry::cry::cry::cry:

[325]

Just because someone has money, doesn't make them evil. Hell, I hope to have a bit of scratch someday. I absolutely believe in the concept of resident priority. I do, however, think exchanging a quarter of a million dollars for a ram is a good deal for all of us. I have nothing against non-residents hunting in BC, as long as resident opportunities are given priority. There is more than enough opportunity for GOs and residents, particularly if predator control is reasonably applied.

For all of you who hate the idea of a "sold" hunt, I hope you never take an African Safari, go on a Southern Hog or gator hunt, or try for one of our northern Caribou or Muskox, as that would be hypocritical.

All of the above are on my "bucket" list.

[yama49]

Just because someone has money, doesn't make them evil. Hell, I hope to have a bit of scratch someday. I absolutely believe in the concept of resident priority. I do, however, think exchanging a quarter of a million dollars for a ram is a good deal for all of us. I have nothing against non-residents hunting in BC, as long as resident opportunities are given priority. There is more than enough opportunity for GOs and residents, particularly if predator control is reasonably applied.

For all of you who hate the idea of a "sold" hunt, I hope you never take an African Safari, go on a Southern Hog or gator hunt, or try for one of our northern Caribou or Muskox, as that would be hypocritical.

All of the above are on my "bucket" list.


I agree...

I cant believe how small minded some people are..

[aggiehunter]

So Wiggy your pretty sure I can just phone the local GO as a BC resident...skip the LEH..and pay to go on a California Bighorn Sheep...I'm gonna start saving now as I haven't been drawn since it started...over 20 years.

[yama49]

So Wiggy your pretty sure I can just phone the local GO as a BC resident...skip the LEH..and pay to go on a California Bighorn Sheep...I'm gonna start saving now as I haven't been drawn since it started...over 20 years.

Yep, but is going cost you full rate im assuming,because you are using there quota..Could be wrong

[Devilbear]

Just because someone has money, doesn't make them evil. Hell, I hope to have a bit of scratch someday. I absolutely believe in the concept of resident priority. I do, however, think exchanging a quarter of a million dollars for a ram is a good deal for all of us. I have nothing against non-residents hunting in BC, as long as resident opportunities are given priority. There is more than enough opportunity for GOs and residents, particularly if predator control is reasonably applied.

For all of you who hate the idea of a "sold" hunt, I hope you never take an African Safari, go on a Southern Hog or gator hunt, or try for one of our northern Caribou or Muskox, as that would be hypocritical.

All of the above are on my "bucket" list.


Excuse me, but, the issue of who funds BC wildlife management and may thus have major influence on the policies thereof, which is the topic here, is different from the issue of whether foreign hunting should be allowed in BC. They are connected, no question, however, I think that we need to focus on the funding issue and try to discuss the pros and cons thereof as it relates to BC resident hunters or, this will become another meaningless thread. JMHO.

One pertinent point, though, the hunting of rare BC wildlife by foreigners is NOT AT ALL the same as a Canadian hunting OUR game in the "Territories" and we Canadians have a RIGHT to this hunting as foreigners most definitely do not. After all, we pay the taxes that subsidize the "Territories" and many of us have worked there, I have in 1966 and so did my wife in the mid-'70s. Others of my immediate family also worked there from 1898 intermittently to the '70s.

In short, Canadians have RIGHTS in Canada and this must be protected at all costs.

[bighornbob]

So Wiggy your pretty sure I can just phone the local GO as a BC resident...skip the LEH..and pay to go on a California Bighorn Sheep...I'm gonna start saving now as I haven't been drawn since it started...over 20 years.

You are looking at about $40,000 for a Cali.


Why are you waiting for a LEH, they open all along the Fraser River from Sept. 10 to Oct. 20???

BHB

[bighornbob]

thus have major influence on the policies thereof, which is the topic here,

No actually the Topic and the Thread is about the $240,000 that was brought in by the sale of the Sheep permit. You are the one that always brings up the politics and the threads go sideways????

In regards to your last sentence "In short, Canadians have RIGHTS in Canada and this must be protected at all costs" How have the rights of Canadians been affected by the sale of this tag?????

BHB

[Devilbear]

BHB, you seem incapable of discussing this issue, without making snide little comments that are of a personal nature and, frankly, this does not assist your argument in any respect. I don't really care what you may think of me and your asides here are infantile, but, I would suggest that you might want to consider a more productive approach to presenting your opinions. Just a thought, not that I expect it will do any good.

I have, very clearly, posted my opinion on what the continued sale of tags such as this one, will eventually do to BC-Canadian resident's hunting rights. I suggest that you read what I have said and then respond in a courteous and adult manner. I might add, that, I am not the first or the only BC resident hunter here to post in opposition to this auction and, I suspect, that others are also skeptical of it's longterm impact on our hunting rights and opportunities.

In any event, given the recent "gaming grants" that the BCWF has obtained for some wildlife conservation projects, I think that alternative sources of funding are available, can be found and must be used to further the cause of conservation in BC. Further dependence on or acceptance of foreign funds for short term benefits to BC sheep and other wildlife can and almost certainly will lead to a level of control of these hunting opportunities and rights that I find absolutely unacceptable and which will diminish our access to our game.

It seems that the "politics" of this issue are only acceptable to a few here, when they agree with the current agenda. I might suggest that such an approach is not likely to gain wide support in the BC population, as a whole and the antics of the few can only lessen support for government funding in the longterm. This, may be a bit too complex for some to grasp, but, it is realistic, given current trends in BC society.

[David Heitsman]

... go on a Southern Hog or gator hunt, or try for one of our northern Caribou or Muskox, as that would be hypocritical.

All of the above are on my "bucket" list.

Mine too .325!

[NaStY]

As always, please TRY to keep this thread on topic. Slandering and calling everyone names is against forum rules. You will be banned if it continues.

I suggest we all get together for a group hug and move on. :mrgreen:

[houndogger]

BHB, you seem incapable of discussing this issue, without making snide little comments that are of a personal nature and, frankly, this does not assist your argument in any respect. I don't really care what you may think of me and your asides here are infantile, but, I would suggest that you might want to consider a more productive approach to presenting your opinions. Just a thought, not that I expect it will do any good.

I have, very clearly, posted my opinion on what the continued sale of tags such as this one, will eventually do to BC-Canadian resident's hunting rights. I suggest that you read what I have said and then respond in a courteous and adult manner. I might add, that, I am not the first or the only BC resident hunter here to post in opposition to this auction and, I suspect, that others are also skeptical of it's longterm impact on our hunting rights and opportunities.

In any event, given the recent "gaming grants" that the BCWF has obtained for some wildlife conservation projects, I think that alternative sources of funding are available, can be found and must be used to further the cause of conservation in BC. Further dependence on or acceptance of foreign funds for short term benefits to BC sheep and other wildlife can and almost certainly will lead to a level of control of these hunting opportunities and rights that I find absolutely unacceptable and which will diminish our access to our game.

It seems that the "politics" of this issue are only acceptable to a few here, when they agree with the current agenda. I might suggest that such an approach is not likely to gain wide support in the BC population, as a whole and the antics of the few can only lessen support for government funding in the longterm. This, may be a bit too complex for some to grasp, but, it is realistic, given current trends in BC society.

Good luck finding a 240000! Maybe try working along side the sally ann guys at xmas...

[bighornbob]

BHB, you seem incapable of discussing this issue, without making snide little comments that are of a personal nature and, frankly, this does not assist your argument in any respect. I don't really care what you may think of me and your asides here are infantile, but, I would suggest that you might want to consider a more productive approach to presenting your opinions. Just a thought, not that I expect it will do any good.

I have, very clearly, posted my opinion on what the continued sale of tags such as this one, will eventually do to BC-Canadian resident's hunting rights. I suggest that you read what I have said and then respond in a courteous and adult manner. I might add, that, I am not the first or the only BC resident hunter here to post in opposition to this auction and, I suspect, that others are also skeptical of it's longterm impact on our hunting rights and opportunities.

In any event, given the recent "gaming grants" that the BCWF has obtained for some wildlife conservation projects, I think that alternative sources of funding are available, can be found and must be used to further the cause of conservation in BC. Further dependence on or acceptance of foreign funds for short term benefits to BC sheep and other wildlife can and almost certainly will lead to a level of control of these hunting opportunities and rights that I find absolutely unacceptable and which will diminish our access to our game.

It seems that the "politics" of this issue are only acceptable to a few here, when they agree with the current agenda. I might suggest that such an approach is not likely to gain wide support in the BC population, as a whole and the antics of the few can only lessen support for government funding in the longterm. This, may be a bit too complex for some to grasp, but, it is realistic, given current trends in BC society.

You want a intelligent conversation lets have it. A intelligent conversation includes dialogue and debate and answering the questions posed to you with facts not hear say and speculation.

Here are the facts in this post.
1) Not enough government money is spent on wildlife projects.
2) Years ago the WSSOBC, GOABC and BCWF approached the government for a Governers tag (what they are called in the States) as they knew that could bring in some big money. This was not an idea for the government.
3) As suspected it brings in huge cash with no detriment to wildlife populations.
4) A weathly person voluntarily buys the tag becuase he can afford. Why he buys it is not really a concern for anyone.
5) Money generated is used for wildlife projects.
6) With hospital room shortages and towns without doctors, the majority of people would rather have these fixed then help out a struggling sheep herd.

These are facts, the government wallet is slowly closing for wildlife projects. The old days is long gone and we are in a new era of government spending. We have to think outside the box and this tag is one way. Sure it would be nice if the government paid all the bills! Do I think they should? Absolutely. It is going to happen. Not likely.

Where do you think funding for wildlife projects should come from keeping in mind we are the minority and so many things like healthcare and education are suffering???? You mention the new gaming grants and that is great. But a person could argue that this is a sort of blood money coming from casino revenues and lotteries where a lot people who cant afford to pay bills are gamblings and losing money and the government is taking advantage of them. Is this right?

An important question to ask is, gaming money has always been generated why are we getting now??? And what programs are being cut to to free up this money?? We all know it was spent in the past on something and now it will not. So who loses out???

The special tag was new so no money came from one program to help another here in BC. If someone has a right to bitch it should be the americans as now money that would have been spent on wildlife projects down there is being spent up here. And it is being spent by a wealthy american (most times) who can afford it, not a person on welfare that hits the slots every weekend. Thats a win win in my books.

Ok now its your turn. I have posed a few questions and I would like to see them answered with facts and not speculations.
Just like you say if the americans keep giving money they will want to take ownership (that is speculation). I could speculate that with them giving us money they may want to give more so there might be a slight chance that we may allow their kids up here one day to see what nature is supposed to look like.

Off to a course, I look forward to your answers and questions.

BHB

[1/2 slam]

Bottom line is it's here and here to stay. For those of you who are against it get over it that boat has sailed. The government, WSSBC, BCWF and GOABC worked hard to put this in place. There are very strict rules for how the money is to be spent. There will only be 2 tags a year. One for residents and one for non residents. It has raised huge money for conservation. Money that is not available elsewhere. You have as many chances to win it as you can afford. Also you can buy the auction tag if you want. Nothing is preventing you from bidding on it.As David wrote this years buyer is a CANADIAN.

I've been putting in for it ever since it was initiated. This years winner is a buddy of mine. He's been putting in from the beginning as well

[1/2 slam]

You want a intelligent conversation lets have it. A intelligent conversation includes dialogue and debate and answering the questions posed to you with facts not hear say and speculation.

Here are the facts in this post.
1) Not enough government money is spent on wildlife projects.
2) Years ago the WSSOBC, GOABC and BCWF approached the government for a Governers tag (what they are called in the States) as they knew that could bring in some big money. This was not an idea for the government.
3) As suspected it brings in huge cash with no detriment to wildlife populations.
4) A weathly person voluntarily buys the tag becuase he can afford. Why he buys it is not really a concern for anyone.
5) Money generated is used for wildlife projects.
6) With hospital room shortages and towns without doctors, the majority of people would rather have these fixed then help out a struggling sheep herd.

These are facts, the government wallet is slowly closing for wildlife projects. The old days is long gone and we are in a new era of government spending. We have to think outside the box and this tag is one way. Sure it would be nice if the government paid all the bills! Do I think they should? Absolutely. It is going to happen. Not likely.

Where do you think funding for wildlife projects should come from keeping in mind we are the minority and so many things like healthcare and education are suffering???? You mention the new gaming grants and that is great. But a person could argue that this is a sort of blood money coming from casino revenues and lotteries where a lot people who cant afford to pay bills are gamblings and losing money and the government is taking advantage of them. Is this right?

An important question to ask is, gaming money has always been generated why are we getting now??? And what programs are being cut to to free up this money?? We all know it was spent in the past on something and now it will not. So who loses out???

The special tag was new so no money came from one program to help another here in BC. If someone has a right to bitch it should be the americans as now money that would have been spent on wildlife projects down there is being spent up here. And it is being spent by a wealthy american (most times) who can afford it, not a person on welfare that hits the slots every weekend. Thats a win win in my books.

Ok now its your turn. I have posed a few questions and I would like to see them answered with facts and not speculations.
Just like you say if the americans keep giving money they will want to take ownership (that is speculation). I could speculate that with them giving us money they may want to give more so there might be a slight chance that we may allow their kids up here one day to see what nature is supposed to look like.

Off to a course, I look forward to your answers and questions.

BHB


Well said.

[coach]

Great points, BHB and 1/2 Slam. I think the other part of the equation is the fact that keeping our sheep (and other ungulate) populations healthy through funding such as this helps ensure resident GOS and LEH will continue in the future. The formula governing the allocation of non-resident tags available for GO's to sell has been negotiated and agreed upon by the various stakeholders. I'm not fearful that the government will unilaterally change the rules and take resident opportunity as a result of the success of this auction.

[Devilbear]

Amusing, highly speculative and probably wrong. Very simply, the changes in BC are reflected in the major changes in social attitudes that have taken place here over the past half century. An example, as with the others I HAVE already given, for anyone who READS before bloviating, is that, when I was first starting to hunt and some here were not even in BC. the killing of wild sheep, etc. and leaving the meat to rot, while taking the "trophy" was commonplace. Many rich Yankees did exactly this and one was the most famous gunwriter of his era.

NOW, if some dude does this, he will be fined and severely excoriated in the media, as he should be. The people of BC, have a much different attitude to wildlife than was the case back in the early '60s and, I think that most would be VERY opposed to foreign funding of wildlife enhancement projects here, if they knew that this was being done, as BHB admits, to maintain the opportunities for these foreigners to harvest "trophies" in BC. This is speculation, of course, however, it might be a worthwhile activity to have "The Vancouver Sun" run an opinion poll on this issue.

The comments about a lack of funding and the subjective value judgement on the source of BC wildlife grants are both speculative and biased, so, all I can say is that we must fight harder tom get funding and also to preserve BC sheep hunting for BC people, not foreigners and temporary resident newcomers from other places. Americans, have NO ...right to bitch... about ANY aspect of Canadian-BC life and anyone who thinks that they DO should perhaps move there.

I would not be quite so sanguine over the supposed longevity of this auction, but, I am not a newcomer to BC who has very little experience here. I think that this whole issue would become a major reason for more BC people to demand an end to foreign "trophy" collecting here, if, it were widely known that is is happening and this is another reason why I think it is a bad idea to do it, especially holding the actual auction in the USA.

[Mr. Dean]

DB.

FYI, if you just made your points ON THE TOPIC and kept all the other stuff out (heritage, where you worked, when you worked there, who your Daddy was, how big the Viking ship was, what it was made from, how much wood you've cut, blah blah blah),,,,,,, your fingers wouldn't be so sore and tired. :lol:

And it would make for NICER reading and actually 'hold some water' on the concerns you have, in others minds. As is, your points get lost in a lot of this other stuff you KEEP tossing in.


Just saying.....

[Devilbear]

Oh, really, how very interesting and I shall bear your "egspurt" admonitions in mind.

[Mr. Dean]

Oh, really, how very interesting and I shall bear your "egspurt" admonitions in mind.

No need in trying to make it personal - It ain't.
You KNOW I have nothin' but love for ya, Man. :wink: :wink:

[Devilbear]

Great points, BHB and 1/2 Slam. I think the other part of the equation is the fact that keeping our sheep (and other ungulate) populations healthy through funding such as this helps ensure resident GOS and LEH will continue in the future. The formula governing the allocation of non-resident tags available for GO's to sell has been negotiated and agreed upon by the various stakeholders. I'm not fearful that the government will unilaterally change the rules and take resident opportunity as a result of the success of this auction.

LOOK at the on-going situation with wilderness ski lodge operations, as I posted in a previous commentary on this issue, these ARE largely owned and funded by Yankees and they DO and HAVE attempted to keep BC citizens OUT of the areas of CROWN LAND that they operate in....Nelson is one example,as stated on the website.

The impact that I mention on resident opportunities will come when an increasing number of these foreigners want to hunt sheep here and the populations of the BC sheep herds are down. Then, the demand will be, WE PAID for the sheep habitat and so WE have a RIGHT to hunt them/there.

This, is simply an extension of "we GOs built the trails into "Whatever Lake" and so WE have a RIGHT to an increased allocation there".....are you telling us that this has not/will not happen and all BC governments consistently act in the interests of the average BC citizen........?????

Really???????

[ROEBUCK]

DB.

FYI, if you just made your points ON THE TOPIC and kept all the other stuff out (heritage, where you worked, when you worked there, who your Daddy was, how big the Viking ship was, what it was made from, how much wood you've cut, blah blah blah),,,,,,, your fingers wouldn't be so sore and tired. :lol:

And it would make for NICER reading and actually 'hold some water' on the concerns you have, in others minds. As is, your points get lost in a lot of this other stuff you KEEP tossing in.


Just saying.....

WHY ?

have you considered that some members might enjoy the banter ? :-D

brings back memories of my late great grandad !
who started or included the statement ( "during the war") in every sentence ! :-D

[Deaddog]

The comments about a lack of funding and the subjective value judgement on the source of BC wildlife grants are both speculative and biased, so, all I can say is that we must fight harder tom get funding and also to preserve BC sheep hunting for BC people, not foreigners and temporary resident newcomers from other places. --DevilBear

there will be several director positions available at the WSSBC convention, I would encourage you to run for a position as it appears that you have the time and knowledge to further our fund raising ... hope to see you there.. Jim

[rem338win]

Every year I come to the conclusion that people have lost the foresight that was once so highly regarded. The person who bought the tag very likely could have spent half that and given themselves the same experience and opportunity through outfitters. It is a fundraiser that obviously works and the conservation efforts most of you want are funded by it.
This isn't going to effect our ability to access hunting anymore than our government splint tags to hunter hosted non residents. And if you want to shut that down, well, eat some more dry Cheerios.
For goodness sakes.

[coach]

are you telling us that this has not/will not happen and all BC governments consistently act in the interests of the average BC citizen........?????

Really???????

This is a good question, Devilbear. No. I do not place that much faith in future BC Governments - particularly if the NDP are to get in. I do have faith, however, in the BCWF continuing to fight for our rights at the bargaining table. I believe more of us need to become members of both the BCWF and our local clubs and work toward increasing numbers of resident hunters and helping to grow our sport while, at the same time, protecting the resource.

I believe our biggest challenge comes from anti-hunting groups, who are very organized and not bound by borders. Until the hunting community can find a way to work together and stop fighting with each other, we are ripe for the picking. I would rather work together with American hunting organizations who would like limited and allocated access to hunt our trophy animals, than be left on our own to fight the antis.

While I do agree with you, that money from licenses and tags should go back into the resource and not into general revenue, I think BHB has made an argument as to why this is not the case. There are a lot of hands out in this province right now.

Perhaps I am naive? I'm sure you will let me know if I am.:)

[Devilbear]

I have been a member of the BCWF for almost forty years, served as a volunteer on the Lower Mainland Executive some years ago and have been active in BC conservation since the early '60s, I have paid my dues and seen a lot of government and industry situations involving wildlife, fisheries and other such resources.

Based on that, I would ban every US "conservation" group from the R.M.E.F to the Sierra Club from ANY involvement in ANY aspect of BC environmental policy or management, ALL of them. The agenda behind their activities here is only TOO apparent and for the few here who would understand the term, their current activities are merely another form of "Manifest Destiny".

Anyway, I am done as I am old enough that there will always be wilderness and hunting for me, I have no kids and should just withdraw, enjoy my life and let the younger guys here do as they see fit. The energy I spend on conservation would be better expended on shooting my guns, hunting and training my Rottweilers. Maybe, I am too conservative in my approach and the commercialization of BC hunting will benefit all here who have average incomes and cannot buy one of these tags, maybe, but, I rather doubt it.

[Onesock]

Someone mentioned on here about no fundng for wildlife because the funding was needed for hospital beds. It will only take one politician to decide that the 1/4 mil from a sheep tag would build 10 hospital beds.......If the money stays as is thats fine. Lets beware of using the money for other things.

[coach]

Someone mentioned on here about no fundng for wildlife because the funding was needed for hospital beds. It will only take one politician to decide that the 1/4 mil from a sheep tag would build 10 hospital beds.......If the money stays as is thats fine. Lets beware of using the money for other things.

No chance! This tag is only going to happen with the support of the hunting community. Why would the various stakeholders support the sale of the tag if the money wasn't going back into the resource?

[Snowpatrol]

OK... for all you anti outfitter people here... Think for a second ! In this case it was a canadian resident who bought the tag.... right ??? So he or she can have a friend or a relative in BC who has the right to get a permit to accompany.. No outfitter required. What if a BC resident bought the tag... He wouldn't need a outfitter !!! This special sheep permit is not for the outfitters.. If a non resident purchases it they will have to hire an outfitter ! Also... another point that all of you guys are missing here ! Allowing this tag to be hunted in the wintering range after the GOS is not a bad thing... The guys that buy these tags are sheep fanatics.. They will probably kill a very old and mature ram. A ram that would probably die of old age because he will never be in a place that he can be shot in a regular season.. So not only does this tag bring a ton of money for sheep enhancement it will never hurt our sheep population ! Thanks for reading !

[yama49]

OK... for all you anti outfitter people here... Think for a second ! In this case it was a canadian resident who bought the tag.... right ??? So he or she can have a friend or a relative in BC who has the right to get a permit to accompany.. No outfitter required. What if a BC resident bought the tag... He wouldn't need a outfitter !!! This special sheep permit is not for the outfitters.. If a non resident purchases it they will have to hire an outfitter ! Also... another point that all of you guys are missing here ! Allowing this tag to be hunted in the wintering range after the GOS is not a bad thing... The guys that buy these tags are sheep fanatics.. They will probably kill a very old and mature ram. A ram that would probably die of old age because he will never be in a place that he can be shot in a regular season.. So not only does this tag bring a ton of money for sheep enhancement it will never hurt our sheep population ! Thanks for reading !

I think a can-res will still need an outfitter, becuase we cant to a hunter host for sheep..A bc res, would not need a guide...

[Snowpatrol]

I think a can-res will still need an outfitter, becuase we cant to a hunter host for sheep..A bc res, would not need a guide...

Good catch... forgot about the exempt hunter host on sheep....

[wiggy]

Okay so right now the deal is this draw is happening and its going to continue; on the good front we just got 200 k towards our sheep and thats a good thing. Now I know DB that you love BC and love the sheeps as much if not more then any of us and really care about the future of resident hunting which really all us resident sheep hunters do. As for getting rid of the trophy hunting and the guides i cant concur with you as the guides have a very big part of BC history and conservation of our sheep herds. Hell they loves the sheeps too; just as much as us and they care about the herds and populations. Now i do not agree with a couple of things that are going on and have posted on this; ie leh should be leh for everyone period; wont dwell on this as its not what this thread is about. Its about dough for sheep and right now these special season tags are raising big dough thats helping our sheep which is a great thing. I love lots of your points DB and I hope we residents take it in and be ready to fight if any of these situations start to occur. Right now we are still just dealing with the current situation which is definately helping our sheep. So the next question is HOW CAN WE RAISE MORE DOUGH without trying to expand these special seasons.
A little earlier i stated that a calender would be good. If i could buy a good calendar with actual pictures of BC Rams from GOS areas i would spend the dough every year. Im sure between all the members and guides on this site we could put together 12 good pics a year of beauts. Tack on a extra 20 bucks above total costs which would go to SHEEPS. It would be one of the first things on my Christmas list every year. Just a thought we have to work together and have positive thoughts on whats the best plan. Sht if i want to hear negative comments i can tell the momma bear about my hunting plans for this year lol.

[6616]

I just looked it up on the Wild Sheep Foundation site and it was actually $250,000.00 and I assume in USD.

[bugler]

So....just so we are clear...most people here are ok with poaching a huge, hand picked ram off of winter range,after the season is closed, as long as you got the 1/4 mil to spare.

On the other hand, if you are a BC resident with newly aquired aboriginal status, you run the risk of a public lynching if you pull such a stunt. And rightfully so.

I've been away for a couple of days. Early on 6616 said it, "it's a bit dicey...but the money is worth it...", I'm paraphrasing.

Reminds me of an old joke. A man approaches a nice looking woman in the bar and asks if she will sleep with him for a million dollars. She considers for a minute and says what the hell, what's one night for that kind of money? So then he asks, "Will you do it for $100." Indignantly she replies "What do you think I am?!!!"

And he says, "We've already established that...now we're discussing the price."

And no...I don't know how else to raise that kind of money either...but I still don't like it.

[Devilbear]

That is exactly my first, gut level reaction and I just want to find a better way.

BTW, as to Wiggy's very good post above, I am not at present, as I posted earlier, totally opposed to foreign hunting with GOs here in BC. I have given the issue a LOT of careful thought and am of mixed feelings about it, but, I do listen, carefully, to all sides in the discussion. That said, I think that the current system needs major over-haul and the first change is to absolutely restrict BC GO status to BC citizens, who are Canadians and live here as their permanent home.

[coach]

Good posts, Bugler and Devilbear. I have also given more consideration to this topic today. $250,000 this year and $3million over the years that this draw has been run is a significant amount of money. DB - I agree with your gut level reaction. At present, this is the system being used - and it's a successful one. That said, if there's a better way, I'm sure most of us would agree to support it.

The multiple issues between GO's and resident hunters need to be addressed and worked out. In a perfect world, we would all work together for the betterment of our sport. I agree with you, DB, with your desire to restrict BC GO status to BC citizens - however I think that is a topic for another thread.

Healthy animal populations are essential for any of these discussions to matter.

[Brambles]

You are correct, their payback is the in the way of being allowed to come here and hunt. If they were banned from hunting up here I would guarentee that the money would dry up and fast. So where would that leave us.

Lets see schools closing, people sleeping in hallways in hospitals, small town without doctors etc etc and then there are the 1200 or so resident sheep hunters wanting money for a study to see why the sheep are dying on the Fraser River. Or a fence to keep out domestic sheep. HHMM where will the government spend the money???? I could see the headlines now, Government Spends $10,000 on Sheep Fence While the Town of Ashcroft Cant Pay For a Local Doctor. It's easier for the Gov. to close hunting of sheep then it is to find out why the sheep are dying, why because 99% of British Columbians that live here dont give a s**t if there are mountain sheep left, especially when less then 1% of the people that want them also want to hunt them???

What you cant get through your thick skull is not only are we fighting a battle against anti's but also people that would rather have their kids go to a neighborhood school, or daycare costs covered, or for heaveans sake a doctor in their little town (how dare these self centered *******s). Times have changed and its a new world, we cant rely on governments for money anymore, we have to be creative and this tag is one way. Another way would be to have Old Kootenay or Devilbear at a Dunk Tank booth at the GOABC convention. I am sure that would raise some money for the animals of BC.


BHB


Amen Brother, well put. And I for one would be 1st and last in line to have a crack at Devilbear in a dunk tank.

[aggiehunter]

Bighornbob...well it turns out I'm rich...so I'm gonna bypass what the rest of the Region 8 boys (BC Residents too) have to do...LEH...and kill an any ram Cali with my 'curve...and I'll get 30 days to do it....it's gonna be awesome....

[Brambles]

LOOK at the on-going situation with wilderness ski lodge operations, as I posted in a previous commentary on this issue, these ARE largely owned and funded by Yankees and they DO and HAVE attempted to keep BC citizens OUT of the areas of CROWN LAND that they operate in....Nelson is one example,as stated on the website.
???????

What website?

[coach]

Bighornbob...well it turns out I'm rich...so I'm gonna bypass what the rest of the Region 8 boys (BC Residents too) have to do...LEH...and kill an any ram Cali with my 'curve...and I'll get 30 days to do it....it's gonna be awesome....

That's great, Aggie. Your $250,000 will go a long way toward helping the sheep. Resident hunters will enjoy many years of continued LEH and GOS as a result of your generosity.

[evhunter]

So....just so we are clear...most people here are ok with poaching a huge, hand picked ram off of winter range,after the season is closed, as long as you got the 1/4 mil to spare.

On the other hand, if you are a BC resident with newly aquired aboriginal status, you run the risk of a public lynching if you pull such a stunt. And rightfully so.

I've been away for a couple of days. Early on 6616 said it, "it's a bit dicey...but the money is worth it...", I'm paraphrasing.

Reminds me of an old joke. A man approaches a nice looking woman in the bar and asks if she will sleep with him for a million dollars. She considers for a minute and says what the hell, what's one night for that kind of money? So then he asks, "Will you do it for $100." Indignantly she replies "What do you think I am?!!!"

And he says, "We've already established that...now we're discussing the price."

And no...I don't know how else to raise that kind of money either...but I still don't like it.


I don't think "most people here are OK with poaching..." If it's a legal season, but only for 2 hunters per year, it's still a legal hunt of a free ranging animal. I wouldn't call it poaching.

[bighornbob]

So....just so we are clear...most people here are ok with poaching a huge, hand picked ram off of winter range,after the season is closed, as long as you got the 1/4 mil to spare.

How do you figure its poaching??? The law says its perfectly legal!!!!

Or is just OK for you to do it???



Required Information

Species:Whitetail
Date of Kill:Dec 16
Region:4
Weapon used:Hoyt Protec
Category Entered:Bow
Story or link to story: I took this dry doe with one well placed 2315 aluminum arrow tipped with a Magnus Stinger. Opportunities for bucks were limited to yearlings this year so I would as soon have this old girl fill the sausage bill.
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j370/gterpsma/PC150018.jpg


So....just so we are clear...most people here are ok with poaching an old, dry doe off of winter range, after the season is closed, as long as you use a bow???

BHB

[GoatGuy]

yowzers.

in before the lock....

[wiggy]

What website?

Google Monashee Snowcat; foreign owned and you are not allowed on that mountain during their season. This is a problem; how can anyone have the right to say whether or not your allowed to access crown

[Devilbear]

That, is one that I was not aware of and I am curious as to who "owns" it, where they are from (like it is not obvious) and where they currently have their permanent home. There are a number of these operations in the Kootenays, alone, that are "owned" by wealthy Yankees or their "draftdodger" offspring and they have made various attempts, for over 30 years, to restrict we BC peons from access to the land they operate on....."Gordo" was right on side with this and I doubt that "Christy" or "Harpoon" will be any different.

I have also noticed a different, harder-more authoritarian attitude from some BC resource agency staffers, when, for example, making phone enquiries as to road conditions, etc. in the West Kootenays. I find this highly offensive and it is one, among several, major reasons why I am opposed to "public sector" unions, as these people need to be reminded that they work for us, just as "Harpoon" and Co. need reminding that the Crown Lands, etc. belong to US, not to "Big Oil" and his Yankee masters!

Will, we see an improvement in funding for wildlife, fisheries and so forth, well, I think that there IS a real chance that politicians may well sell tags for sheep in BC to fund health care and even services for the aged and infirm; they will use the excuse of "we have so many "Boomer" seniors and need the money" and MANY people will buy this lie as they have the other bullshit spewed by governments to assist the wealthy at the expense of we ordinary serfs.

[Onesock]

Coach. The hunting fraternity never had too much to say when the gov'y said we had to register our huntng rifles did we. Never- is a long time and I wouldn't put anything past a gov'y that was in dire straits and needed cash. All they would think is what the hell are a few elk or sheep if we can raise a million dollars. Govy's have thick skins and 100,000 hunters sure won't change their minds if they dicide to put this money into general revenue. As hunters we just have to be aware.

[Onesock]

On another note. If the resident hunters of BC want to raise another quarter of a mil for habitat why not double the price of all hunting tags we buy. Shit the price of a tag is a very small part of hunting costs. Would much rather pay 50 bucks for a deer tag than sell off our wildlife to the highest bidder.
Shouldn't be any problem for the highest bidder to shoot the biggest trophy and be first in the B&C club should it. I wonder if this would be called "fair chase?" No one else can hunt these rams then, hardly "fair chase".

[guest]

Got to say some thing on this one ....

BHB
You are quoted above as saying Burgler .... who took a legal doe, in season with a bow is " a POACHER" as you say he took it when the season is closed. How do you figure? There is nothing wrong with ANY BODY taking ANY animals as long as it falls with in all the legal guidelines. Sure BHB it might not be your choice to shoot does, nothing wrong with that, but can you clarify why your calling Burgler a POACHER !

CT

In regards to the Special Sheep Permit, it raises good funds that DO go directly to the health and sustainability of our WILD SHEEP HERDS ....... It's a good thing.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

[QUOTE=curly top;1077470]Got to say some thing on this one ....

BHB
You are quoted above as saying Burgler .... who took a legal doe, in season with a bow is " a POACHER" as you say he took it when the season is closed. How do you figure? There is nothing wrong with ANY BODY taking ANY animals as long as it falls with in all the legal guidelines. Sure BHB it might not be your choice to shoot does, nothing wrong with that, but can you clarify why your calling Burgler a POACHER !

QUOTE]

BHB just rephrased bugler's own comments. Bugler referrred to shooting a ram off winter range as "poaching" even though it is a legal season for the tag holders.


SSS

[wiggy]

On another note. If the resident hunters of BC want to raise another quarter of a mil for habitat why not double the price of all hunting tags we buy. Shit the price of a tag is a very small part of hunting costs. Would much rather pay 50 bucks for a deer tag than sell off our wildlife to the highest bidder.
Shouldn't be any problem for the highest bidder to shoot the biggest trophy and be first in the B&C club should it. I wonder if this would be called "fair chase?" No one else can hunt these rams then, hardly "fair chase".
Im with you Onesock; how can these animals qualify for any record book. Doesnt make sense to me. Tell me you see the old boys on those open slopes for the entire hunting season notta; they know whens its time to

[happyhunter]

A quarter mil for one of our sheep... yeah were whores but were expensive whores! You gotta do what you gotta do. Conservation always has to come first. Let some rich folks pay to enhance our habitats, thus creating better hunting for us residents. They pay, we reap the benefits and at the cost of one sheep per year? Sounds good to me!

I wish we could sell helicopter hunts for wolves here in region 4, specifically over the mountain caribou habitat and mule deer range. All monies raised goes to the caribou recovery program and mule deer habitat. We residents don't pay a dime, everything would be funded by some wealthy foreigner. Less wolves, better habitat, and a fighting chance for the endangered caribou. Never gonna happen but a guy can dream....

[bighornbob]

Got to say some thing on this one ....

BHB
You are quoted above as saying Burgler .... who took a legal doe, in season with a bow is " a POACHER" as you say he took it when the season is closed. How do you figure? There is nothing wrong with ANY BODY taking ANY animals as long as it falls with in all the legal guidelines. Sure BHB it might not be your choice to shoot does, nothing wrong with that, but can you clarify why your calling Burgler a POACHER !

No problem with shooting does, got one myself this fall. No problem with bowhunting, do that too. I referred to him as a poacher as thats what he was calling the guy that killed the sheep. It is perfectly legal to shoot a ram then if you are the special tag holder. No laws were broken. No laws were broken when Burgler shot his doe either. I was just throwing it out there as he shot something after the regular season. If he is calling the sheep hunter a paocher he must be one himself.

BHB

[guest]

My correction BHB,
This is such a big thread, I did not realize he is calling the holder of this tag a Poacher ......... get real Burgler, this is one of the best chances to help our herds succeed with the various groups and volunteers involved ......... it is important though that these tags are a one off per year ......... we as residents have just as much right or chance to either bid or keep buying the special sheep LEH and cross your fingers.

I have no problem with this $240,000 earnings for possibly better sheep hunting for all of us.

CT

[bugler]

I didn't call him or her a poacher, I said go ahead and poach one, perhaps a poor choice of that particular word. I probably used it because if I had the tag it might feel to me a little bit like poaching. A bit like calling someone who has sex with a prostitute a rapist. Not quite the same thing. Apologies.

The point I'm trying to make is that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that if you have gross amounts of money to throw around you can buy a hunting experience that is only available to the incredibly rich, and hunting isn't supposed to be one of those things, our very system of wildlife management depends on it.

And you can't compare this to shooting a deer in a season that is open to everyone. Not even close. Kind of a desperate attempt at an argument when nothing sensible comes to mind.

[GoatGuy]

Bugler, the whole trick to this thing is I don't believe we'd be doing this if we had enough money for wildlife in BC. The problem is we don't. Most hunters are apathetic and don't express their concerns to politicians so wildlife does not get the money it should.

In the past these tags weren't worth the effort, but with $200K we can actually do something meaningful. Personally, I agree with you to a lesser extent and haven't ever applied for those reasons, but I'm not gonna bag on somebody for doing it.

We should have a minimum of another $10 M a year to run wildlife management in BC, on top of the $3-4 that we get, but we don't.

[The Dude]

f the buyer realy wanted to help the sheep he would re auction off the tag and give all that money to the sheep

Short bus?

[Bear Chaser]

Short bus?

Hockey helmet. Faded white.

[The Dude]

Amen Brother, well put. And I for one would be 1st and last in line to have a crack at Devilbear in a dunk tank.

Man.......I HATE long line-ups! :mrgreen:

I don't have a problem with User-Pay Healthcare in BC, and I don't have a problem with sustainable population harvest draws, in strict moderation.
If we didn't NEED the money, we wouldn't AUCTION off two sheep a year. The natives in Churn Ck take way more than that every year, damn, there were five (I also heard 7) Bighorns shot just around Clinton that I know of.
To have ONE sheep contribute 180K to Sheep enhancement, and a further 60K to wildlife enhancement, and a further 5% of the total to the BCHCTF (If I recall the numbers right) is a BONUS. Add that to the amounts generated by the resident raffle, and I don't see how you can see this as a losing proposition.
Man, I used to think the $60 Tags were expensive. I just been tuned up, real good :-)
What are the Lottery Proceeds? Anyone have that data?

Why does every damn sheep thread turn into a pissing match?
Some of the pissers don't even HUNT sheep! WTF?

[coach]

What are the Lottery Proceeds? Anyone have that data?

I asked that question earlier:


1) I think about 10-15 grand but I may be wrong. Someone may have a better number.
2) The special sheep money goes into a special HCTF account and 75% has to be used for sheep projects while the other %25 goes for other wildlife projects. I am pretty sure a member of each of the BCWF, GOABC and WSSOBC sit on that board and decide which projects the money goes too.
3) They go hand in hand, there is No the auction tag unless the residents get a tag as a special LEH.

BHB

[The Dude]

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu121/mcmillan33/rumble-1/SDC10112.jpg

Thanks, Coach! :D

[The Dude]

So ALL the residents of BC that LOOOOOVE sheep (leave that one alone) come up with 10-15 K for a Premiers Tag, and ONE person (possibly Canadian, it appears) comes up with $250,000, ALL of which go toward Wildlife and habitat betterment, and folks are bitching? Cuz some Damn Dirty "Foreigner Rich Puke" can come up with roughly 20x what ALL the BC Resident Sheep lovers can? Am I reading this right?
Seems like some folks should do a little less sigh'n, and a lot more buyin. :D
Also a little too much Xenophobia on here as usual.
Damn sheep threads.

[300rum700]

The point I'm trying to make is that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that if you have gross amounts of money to throw around you can buy a hunting experience that is only available to the incredibly rich, and hunting isn't supposed to be one of those things, our very system of wildlife management depends on it.

Don't we get the same rights if we draw the special sheep tag? I don't see anyone opposed to it so how is this any different besides the fact that someone won it at auction?

[Mr. Dean]

Got to say some thing on this one ....

BHB
You are quoted above as saying Burgler .... who took a legal doe, in season with a bow is " a POACHER" as you say he took it when the season is closed. How do you figure? There is nothing wrong with ANY BODY taking ANY animals as long as it falls with in all the legal guidelines. Sure BHB it might not be your choice to shoot does, nothing wrong with that, but can you clarify why your calling Burgler a POACHER !

CT

In regards to the Special Sheep Permit, it raises good funds that DO go directly to the health and sustainability of our WILD SHEEP HERDS ....... It's a good thing.

It's word-play on his post inferring that winter range hunting equates to poaching.... Sheep or Deer shouldn't matter IF this was the case.

[Jim 1367]

Why does every damn sheep thread turn into a pissing match?
Some of the pissers don't even HUNT sheep! WTF?

I have avoided weighing in on this since apparently My opinion means nothing since I am not fortunate enough to have a family history going back 300years oR thereabouts in BC. However since a group I care about was brought into this several pages back I will. Do some of you guys realize there are people out who actually care about the well being of the animals, whether they be sheep or not. Eastern Chapter of Wild Sheep Foundation has contributed money for years to projects in BC and other states and provinces. It was stated that we do it so we can come to kill YOUR game. Many of our members have never hunted BC and probably never will. Yet they continue to support us and by extension YOUR Wildlife.

We do it because we actually care about something. This year after our Grant in Aid funds were given out for the year we received two requests to help fund additional projects in YOUR province. We dug into our rainey day funds and came up with the money. What did we get for it, a thank you and that was good enough.

You can bash Americans all you want but if it is true that a Canadian bought the tag what is your excuse now. The Alberta tag has been bought by Canadians too. I read an article years ago by a guy that bought several state and provincal tags and he said he knows he pays a rediculous amount of money for them but he is making a donation to WILDLIFE. Yeah he gets to go hunt some big sheep but he could have just as easily spent that money on something else.

I have been fortunate enough to hunt YOUR province several times. I have spent more than I should have but I do it because I love to experiance new places and hunt different things. I also work my ass off for our chapter planning our yearly fundraiser. I would be better off writing a check and having my time to myself. I don't do it that way because I feel I am making a bigger contribution doing it the way I do it now.

I have met alot of great people from BC, some on this board. I am also glad I met THEM and not a few of those who post here since I would not want to paint everyone with the same brush.

[Devilbear]

This, is an example of exactly the kind of arrogant Yankee, who has the insolence to attempt to mock BC citizens who "dare" to voice concerns about our resources and their management on a BC-based hunting forum and even mock us all, with the use of ...YOUR Wildlife.... This attitude is commonplace among Yankees who come to BC and always has been and it is one of the major reasons why I and many others I know are opposed to allowing them to hunt or fish here.

I am not surprised by this appalling behaviour as I have encountered it on Kootenay Lake many times, but, it is not acceptable and cannot be tolerated. I am, however, glad that this foreigner, an unwelcome intruder into my homeland, has posted this here as it shows just what these types really think about OUR hunting in that they seem to think that they can "buy" access to it as they please. This, it seems to me, is the crux of the whole discussion here and should be carefully considered by all concerned with BC's future.

Simply put, the demands, as above, for access to and use of ALL of BC's resources WILL increase tremendously as the human population of North America, continues to increase and hunting is thus eliminated in many regions of the continent. Soooooo, do we allow our sheep to become pawns in a struggle for who gets these resources and stand idle, while wealthy foreigners buy them? If, this travesty continues, we WILL lose OUR resources to foreigners, just as we have done for decades and are doing now....raw logs to mills in the US, etc?

MY gutlevel response to this Yankee is to just ban ALL foreign hunting/fishing here and keep our resources for Canadians.

[bighornbob]

Don't worry about some of the ..................... on the site or posting on this thread, there are quite a few of us here that feel the same as you.

I personally would like to thank you for your hard work with the Eastern Chapter and appreciate the work you guys do. I thank you, the wildsheep society thanks you and I am sure a lot of BC residents thank you.


I have avoided weighing in on this since apparently My opinion means nothing since I am not fortunate enough to have a family history going back 300years oR thereabouts in BC. However since a group I care about was brought into this several pages back I will. Do some of you guys realize there are people out who actually care about the well being of the animals, whether they be sheep or not. Eastern Chapter of Wild Sheep Foundation has contributed money for years to projects in BC and other states and provinces. It was stated that we do it so we can come to kill YOUR game. Many of our members have never hunted BC and probably never will. Yet they continue to support us and by extension YOUR Wildlife.

We do it because we actually care about something. This year after our Grant in Aid funds were given out for the year we received two requests to help fund additional projects in YOUR province. We dug into our rainey day funds and came up with the money. What did we get for it, a thank you and that was good enough.

You can bash Americans all you want but if it is true that a Canadian bought the tag what is your excuse now. The Alberta tag has been bought by Canadians too. I read an article years ago by a guy that bought several state and provincal tags and he said he knows he pays a rediculous amount of money for them but he is making a donation to WILDLIFE. Yeah he gets to go hunt some big sheep but he could have just as easily spent that money on something else.

I have been fortunate enough to hunt YOUR province several times. I have spent more than I should have but I do it because I love to experiance new places and hunt different things. I also work my ass off for our chapter planning our yearly fundraiser. I would be better off writing a check and having my time to myself. I don't do it that way because I feel I am making a bigger contribution doing it the way I do it now.

I have met alot of great people from BC, some on this board. I am also glad I met THEM and not a few of those who post here since I would not want to paint everyone with the same brush.

[Jim 1367]

Devilbear,
Is that all you took out of my post.NOTHING about the good some people do without benefit to themselves. Nothing about people putting time and energy and effort into something they will get nothing out of it except a feeling that they are doing something POSITIVE. Nothing about wildlife does not recognize state or Provincal borders and they really don't care where the money comes from.

By the way very nice PM. Like I said I am glad I have met the people I have from BC. As I mentioned thank god I don't paint everyone with the same brush the way you do.

[dana]

DB don't get it. They don't understand that the North American Conservation Model includes all of North America. He's so damn worried about Manifest Destiny (which by the way was stopped years ago when they built the train tracks from coast to coast ;) ) that he forgets that we are not at war with our brother's to the south. When it comes to sheep, we actually have this civilized thing called 'SHARING', which DB never learned as a youngster. How many sheep transplants have been a result of co-operation between the 2 countries? As an example, many of our California Bighorns have been live captured and shipped to help out struggling herds all across the West on both sides of the border. This is a good thing! As this is CONSERVATION at it's best! We have been given wildlife from their herds as well. If anyone should be bitching it should be the Yanks, as we gave them our WOLVES, which was the biggest conservation screw up in recent history.

[dana]

What several people in this thread need to do is pull out their current LEH synopsis and look at the tag allocation numbers. There are numerous hunts in this province where only a handful of tags get handed out. Kamloops Sheep is the biggest glaring example. 2 tags. 1 for an early hunt. 1 for a late hunt. The lucky individuals that draw these tags every year are the ONLY hunters hunting. PERIOD! They have it all to themselves. How is that any different from the Special Sheep LEH and Auction tag? The difference is that only residents are hunting those 2 sheep in Kamloops. Tons of examples that are the exact same in that synopsis. Be it sheep, goats or even antlerless deer. Low tag numbers means very very few people hunting, meaning the lucky draw holders have the areas and the seasons to themselves.

[bighornbob]

You know I have been looking at your reply for about 10 minutes trying to come up with a response and I just shake my head every time I look at it. Then I realized I don't have too, you more then on your own showed what type of person you are and probably discredited yourself even more with the few members that may actually listen to the verbal diarrhea that spew on here.

BHB


This, is an example of exactly the kind of arrogant Yankee, who has the insolence to attempt to mock BC citizens who "dare" to voice concerns about our resources and their management on a BC-based hunting forum and even mock us all, with the use of ...YOUR Wildlife.... This attitude is commonplace among Yankees who come to BC and always has been and it is one of the major reasons why I and many others I know are opposed to allowing them to hunt or fish here.

I am not surprised by this appalling behaviour as I have encountered it on Kootenay Lake many times, but, it is not acceptable and cannot be tolerated. I am, however, glad that this foreigner, an unwelcome intruder into my homeland, has posted this here as it shows just what these types really think about OUR hunting in that they seem to think that they can "buy" access to it as they please. This, it seems to me, is the crux of the whole discussion here and should be carefully considered by all concerned with BC's future.

Simply put, the demands, as above, for access to and use of ALL of BC's resources WILL increase tremendously as the human population of North America, continues to increase and hunting is thus eliminated in many regions of the continent. Soooooo, do we allow our sheep to become pawns in a struggle for who gets these resources and stand idle, while wealthy foreigners buy them? If, this travesty continues, we WILL lose OUR resources to foreigners, just as we have done for decades and are doing now....raw logs to mills in the US, etc?

MY gutlevel response to this Yankee is to just ban ALL foreign hunting/fishing here and keep our resources for Canadians.

[The Dude]

Jim: Ditto what BigHornBob said. Do you have a web link for us? There are lots of us that would love to see what your group does, and we appreciate all the help we can get. I'm a sheep Noob, I admit it, but I'm getting the "Sheep Bug", and I can't really understand all the friction that goes on between us. There are quite a few "dickheads" ( to quote another poster) on this site that exhibit paranoid delusions of grandeur and entitlement.
Some are even irrational enough to think that WE should keep all OUR oil and gas, and not sell it and make money for jobs, research and development, and hell, even scholarships for Canadians. They don't live in the real world, so you should ignore their posts.
There are one or two on my Ignore list, incl one poster on this page.
It saves me a lot of wasted time slogging through their pointless xenophobic rhetoric.
I suggest you try it out! It's Freeeeee!
Thx again Jim and friends, send me a link. :grin:

[bugler]

M Dean, I did apologize for using the word poach. I said I think it came out that way because that is how it might feel to me, shooting one in a season that was closed to everyone else.

The lottery is different. Anybody can afford to put in for their chance at it.

Really, I don't begrudge the individual for taking advantage of an opportunity like this that his (or her) wealth affords him. My issue is with "we the people" who are willing to hold our nose and let it happen because the money is good. Personally, I think this kind of thing chips away at the foundation of our system of hunting and wildlife management in North America.

But it doesn't matter what I think. You all have to decide for yourself what is right. I put this out there to provoke thought. Trying to attack how I do things does not make the argument any less valid. Such a reaction tells me that maybe I struck a chord. My logic is somewhat sound and you feel the need to strike back, but not sure how. I say, if the shoe fits, wear it. If it don't, disregard.

And to Jim, I do appreciate the efforts of any individual to further the cause of hunting and wildlife. I have no doubt your heart is in the right place, but we just disagree that this is a legitimate way to raise the money we need.

[Devilbear]

Bugler, Well said and I agree with most of your points. I will not reply to those I do not agree with in order to "lower the temperature" on this thread and thus not contribute to having it locked.

The situation concerning funding for our resource management agencies is a crucial aspect of daily life in BC and accepting foreign funds in place of the appropriate government funding of said agencies can only result in even further cuts to their budgets. This, is more apparent to those here with extensive life experience in these agencies and conservation, some students just do not grasp this, but, most people eventually move beyond sophomoric attitudes and try to learn. So, let's try harder to get proper funding from Victoria for our wildlife and fisheries, we need less of the ignorant comments about ...dumbasses... here and far more action by all BC hunters/anglers. JMHO.

[dana]

Bugler, Well said and I agree with most of your points. I will not reply to those I do not agree with in order to "lower the temperature" on this thread and thus not contribute to having it locked.

The situation concerning funding for our resource management agencies is a crucial aspect of daily life in BC and accepting foreign funds in place of the appropriate government funding of said agencies can only result in even further cuts to their budgets. This, is more apparent to those here with extensive life experience in these agencies and conservation, some students just do not grasp this, but, most people eventually move beyond sophomoric attitudes and try to learn. So, let's try harder to get proper funding from Victoria for our wildlife and fisheries, we need less of the ignorant comments about ...dumbasses... here and far more action by all BC hunters/anglers. JMHO.

DB,
Do you know where the government gets money from? It comes from this thing called TAXES. So you think that the vast majority of those in this province are willing to seeing huge Tax hikes so that hunters can have more animals to kill? Yup, that makes sense. The vast majority of the voting public never leave the confines of the Fraser Valley and have been spoon fed granola their whole lives. Yup, they will love seeing their taxes go through the roof so the government can put more sheep in the mountains.

[bighornbob]

M Dean, I did apologize for using the word poach. I said I think it came out that way because that is how it might feel to me, shooting one in a season that was closed to everyone else.

And to Jim, I do appreciate the efforts of any individual to further the cause of hunting and wildlife. I have no doubt your heart is in the right place, but we just disagree that this is a legitimate way to raise the money we need.

First off if you felt like it was an attack that I called you a poacher, I apologize. I was just trying to show you an analogy of two relatively new hunting opportunities (where the regs have changed). It was actually quite ironic that the first picture I see of you is a with a white doe shot in mid December, when you criticize the sheep hunter for shooting a ram on winter range? Once again it was not meant to be a personal attack.

In regards to your above statement of hunting when no one else is allowed, do you feel this way about LEH hunts where there is only one tag issued? What about the BC resident that gets drawn for the special sheep LEH? He gets to hunt at the same time as the auction winner. Do you have problem with this hunt too or just the one where someone buys it an auction?

You also disagree that this is a legitimate way of raising money? What do you suggest then as a way of raising some big money for wildlife? Trust me when I say the guys that are involved in trying to get money for wildlife have open ears.

BHB

[Mr. Dean]

M Dean, I did apologize for using the word poach. I said I think it came out that way because that is how it might feel to me, shooting one in a season that was closed to everyone else.

The lottery is different. Anybody can afford to put in for their chance at it.

Really, I don't begrudge the individual for taking advantage of an opportunity like this that his (or her) wealth affords him. My issue is with "we the people" who are willing to hold our nose and let it happen because the money is good. Personally, I think this kind of thing chips away at the foundation of our system of hunting and wildlife management in North America.

But it doesn't matter what I think. You all have to decide for yourself what is right. I put this out there to provoke thought. Trying to attack how I do things does not make the argument any less valid. Such a reaction tells me that maybe I struck a chord. My logic is somewhat sound and you feel the need to strike back, but not sure how. I say, if the shoe fits, wear it. If it don't, disregard.

And to Jim, I do appreciate the efforts of any individual to further the cause of hunting and wildlife. I have no doubt your heart is in the right place, but we just disagree that this is a legitimate way to raise the money we need.

No attack from me; We see differently and that's OK. I just missed your response, that's all.
I was just trying to help ya out with your analogy as others were a bit confused.

All good, Brother.


Mr. Dean (M Dean is another member).

[houndogger]

Can we keep this thread on track? I am enjoying it other then all the bs posts.

[dana]

Houndogger,
Come on, don't ruin our fun. It is my cultural heritage to poke bears and see how they react. ;)

[The Dude]

Shall we have a poll, then, gentlemen?

[dana]

I've never set up a poll on HBC before. Maybe someone in the know can do it. DB for the Dunktank? Yes or No?

[Mr. Dean]

I don't wanna see the reference "Yankees, Coolies", or any other racist comments.
You guys here are SUPPOSEDLY 'Men', act like so.

And I'll also remind people of "Shit Disturbing".
Debate the topic!

[Devilbear]

I've never set up a poll on HBC before. Maybe someone in the know can do it. DB for the Dunktank? Yes or No?

Dana, if you have an issue with me, either PM me or meet me in person to discuss it. I was trying to discuss the aspects of wildife management funding here without resorting to trading insults and I asked for your thoughts on funding alternatives politely to that end.

[dana]

DB,
My issue with you is you are dillusional and are not living in reality. How would a PM change that? Why don't you respond to my posts instead of avoiding them. Seriously, what gives you any more right to hunt here than Americans? You want to ban all foreigners from hunting in BC, then you should start with yourself. You have touted your heritage many many times on HBC. And you have also touted your dislike for true Canadians many many a time. I come from strong true Canadian heritage. So I must jump to the conclusion you have a strong dislike for me because of where I come from. You want to live in that perfect white utopia world you are dreaming about, go back to where you came from.

[Devilbear]

I actually don't care much about you at all, so, whatever blows your skirt up, it matters not a whit to me.

[dana]

Come on DB, you can do better than that. Why the hatred towards Americans and true Canadians? Why can't we just all love each other and live in Peace and Harmony?

[Elkhound]

22 deleted posts...and thats not including the edited ones. We are done babysitting