Toad River and Moose Lake

[spotter]

Has anyone ever taken a boat (Jetboat or otherwise) up the Toad River to and possibly through Moose lake?
If so, how far can a guy get a boat up the river above the lakes?
Are there any waterfalls, rapids, etc that would hamper travel?
I would go in on the quad trail, but don't have a quad, so boating is really my only option.

[Tuffcity]

Might help a bit.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?66027-Toad-River&highlight=Toad+River

RC

[bigwhiteys]

You can get further with other modes of transportation.

Carl

[spotter]

You can get further with other modes of transportation.

Carl

You're meaning horses I'm assuming? Or hiking boots?
Hiking isn't really an option for me, as I have some minor health problems which prevent me from packing a backpack in for that distance.

[canishunter22-250]

Has anyone ever taken a boat (Jetboat or otherwise) up the Toad River to and possibly through Moose lake?
If so, how far can a guy get a boat up the river above the lakes?
Are there any waterfalls, rapids, etc that would hamper travel?
I would go in on the quad trail, but don't have a quad, so boating is really my only option.

I've thought about trying that trip someday too, but wasn't sure if it would be doable. Moose Lake looks pretty shallow from the air photos I've seen though, wouldn't be nice to get a jetboad stuck in there.

[bigwhiteys]

wouldn't be nice to get a jetboad stuck in there.

No it's not... And the increased traffic in there as of late has done a number on the shallow tributary itself. The parties with interests in the area have already begun lobbying to have that area protected. It's a zoo in there now.

Carl

[Devilbear]

...protected... as in??????

IF, it ...is a zoo in there now.... and I do not doubt your word on this, what does that tell us about the restrictions on users-HUNTERS that SHOULD be put in place? The use of quads, jetboats and other recent developments in backcountry transport that are available to the average resident hunter, should be curtailed ANYWHERE in BC that such uses cause environmental damage and this would greatly lower the impact of hunters on the Toad River-Moose Lakes area.

HOWEVER, WHO would benefit from such a restriction, weelllllllll,, could it be wealthy Yankee "trophy hunters" and, gee what a surprise, the GOS, themselves often foreigners, who benefit financially by the presence of said mighty hunters??????? I wonder, but, not for very freaking long as I have seen all too much of this all over BC.

Very simply, IF there are strict controls on access to hunting areas by BC citizens, THEN, fine, I support that for conservation reasons. BUT, this must be accompanied by a TOTAL BAN on "non-resident aliens " being allowed to enter such regions for ANY purpose at ANY time! I am bloody tired of seeing OUR heritage taken to be used as a wilderness recreation "park" by rich foreigners and it is going to stop, no matter what it takes to make this happen.

Access controls and LEH, fine, then NO non-resident hunting and NO commercial activity at all!

[bigwhiteys]

IF, it ...is a zoo in there now.... and I do not doubt your word on this, what does that tell us about the restrictions on users-HUNTERS that SHOULD be put in place? The use of quads, jetboats and other recent developments in backcountry transport that are available to the average resident hunter, should be curtailed ANYWHERE in BC that such uses cause environmental damage and this would greatly lower the impact of hunters on the Toad River-Moose Lakes area.

In this area one could say environmental damage is definitely occuring from jetboats and people quading outside the designated M/V route.


HOWEVER, WHO would benefit from such a restriction, weelllllllll,, could it be wealthy Yankee "trophy hunters" and, gee what a surprise, the GOS, themselves often foreigners, who benefit financially by the presence of said mighty hunters??????? I wonder, but, not for very freaking long as I have seen all too much of this all over BC.

Before you get your panties in a knot, it's not the GO's pushing for this, although I am sure they wouldn't disagree to it... The two GO areas affected have little motorized access already anyways so not sure what difference it would make. Not sure if the damage is being done by hunters, or partiers out for a weekend of fun but it's brutal how much damage a jet boat will do to a shallow lake when they sit there doing donuts. Maybe I don't know what I am talking about and the abuse is a good thing.

Carl

[Devilbear]

Carl, you and I are not likely to ever agree on much, if anything concerning the GOs, we both know that and as I have no patience for wasting my time, I shall not ...get my panties in a knot..., but, will continue to quietly work for the goals of conservation I believe in.

I am NOT in favour of quads and jetboats and have never, in the 59 years since I caught my first trout, even sat on or in either of these....my best friend owns a boat and keeps asking if I want to go with him, but, I am not really interested.

I also am opposed to GOs using aircraft to spot game and I feel that this is among the worst problems we face in many areas of BC; this and jetboats and quads should be very tightly controlled and the abuse stopped at the source. The abuse of wilderness, wildlife, fish and our natural heritage is NOT ...a good thing...., I think we agree on that.

BTW, I see you are now using a Hilleberg Allak, helluva fine hunting tent, IMO and I hope to hear some reports here from you on it.

[bigwhiteys]

Carl, you and I are not likely to ever agree on much, if anything concerning the GOs,

You might be surprised...!


I am NOT in favour of quads and jetboats and have never
I am in favor of both modes of access for residents but the restrictions imposed do nothing to stop the irresponsible people who don't seem to care about the restrictions or their individual impact. Riverboats do considerable damage to shallow tributaries, especially when they are showing off.


BTW, I see you are now using a Hilleberg Allak, helluva fine hunting tent, IMO and I hope to hear some reports here from you on it.

Yes, very happy with it! We took it out this year for our Oct. Stone's hunt. It doesn't make you any warmer in -10 though lol..!

Carl

[goatdancer]

In this area one could say environmental damage is definitely occuring from jetboats and people quading outside the designated M/V route.



Before you get your panties in a knot, it's not the GO's pushing for this, although I am sure they wouldn't disagree to it... The two GO areas affected have little motorized access already anyways so not sure what difference it would make. Not sure if the damage is being done by hunters, or partiers out for a weekend of fun but it's brutal how much damage a jet boat will do to a shallow lake when they sit there doing donuts. Maybe I don't know what I am talking about and the abuse is a good thing.

Carl

The jackasses quading outside the designated M/V route has been going on for a long time. I noticed it in 1999 when my buddy and I went up there. Some people have no respect for the rules.

[one-shot-wonder]

Has anyone ever taken a boat (Jetboat or otherwise) up the Toad River to and possibly through Moose lake?
If so, how far can a guy get a boat up the river above the lakes?
Are there any waterfalls, rapids, etc that would hamper travel?
I would go in on the quad trail, but don't have a quad, so boating is really my only option.

You can take a tin can up the toad through Moose lake. We probably went 4-5km up before the water was getting pretty shallow and we were losing daylight before turning around. Once you get to know the channels in the lake its ok but to figure them out takes a while. You have to be really touchy with your kicker and make sure your shear pin is not locked incase you hit bottom. Watch for gravel bars and deadheads in the river too..... Best to have a passenger in the front leaning over board to watch the nose of the boat and the depth of water.....

[yama49]

I went 8km above moose in my zodiac.. Did alot of walking and pulling, till i got to the river.. Not sure how far you can go, but i did not see one other person up there..

[KB90]

Did you kill a moose!?


I went 8km above moose in my zodiac.. Did alot of walking and pulling, till i got to the river.. Not sure how far you can go, but i did not see one other person up there..

[yama49]

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq79/JEARL49/IMG_6928.jpg
Did you kill a moose!?
http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq79/JEARL49/IMG_6934.jpg

[40incher]

Sounds like an easy area to access if zodiacs with props can get up there. Go for it.

As far as making it a "protected area" to "protect" it, that's a standard GO's tactic to keep the residents out. If only they could realize how that will backfire on them later on. Unfortunately, most of the GO territories are now owned by short-term and short-thinking yanks/europeans/asians/etc....! Make a deal now to keep the area a "quality wilderness experience" and pay the piper later. One more protected area in BC (California North) is one too many.

The GO's should really learn to lighten up, and their apologists as well. The alternative is not pretty. Resident hunters are the least of you worries.

[Devilbear]

What exactly are you saying here, do you support wide open hunting for all, some restrictions on motorized access, more GO involvement or less, more resident opportunities or maybe a ban on GOs using some areas?

How will the "protection" of ANY area that they can use horses and fixed wing aircraft to access hurt GOs, it would seem that, since few resi.-hunters have horses and many local air transport companies sign exclusive contracts with certain GOs, that the "protection" would HELP, not hinder the foreign GOs you mention? What am I missing here?

[2SHALLOW]

Carl is right, i live in the area and there has been an issue with jet boats and quads, you are no longer allowed to run a side by side people got charged with them this year. Now i have been up this river in a small jet boat 16', the river is shallow but can be done early in the season. The lake is too shallow to run. We were stuck for 9 hours right in the middle, its not really a lake its more of a swamp and trust me there is no bottom to it it is pure muck. It is now a zoo during hunting season and that is why i no longer hunt the area but good for you for planning a trip and good luck. Out of curiosity what are you planning on hunting for?

[island rider]

did you hear about anyone from pg getting charged driveing around the old mine site on his atv with a loaded gun ??? I dont know the new co up there but i know the retired onse .

[bigwhiteys]

Carl is right, i live in the area and there has been an issue with jet boats and quads, you are no longer allowed to run a side by side people got charged with them this year.

My family outfitted there for a few decades, we know the area and the people still living there very well. I personally hope they throw up a motor restriction on the lake for starters. That would address some of the problems immediately but still leave the area open. The natives want to know how many moose are being killed and demanding compulsory moose inspection for 7-50-7-54 and they've been denied... so you can imagine what their next step is!

Carl

[Devilbear]

...The natives... need to be severely dealt with because of their own depredations on BC wildlife and should have NO influence in MOE policy as they are not the "owners" of the land, all pinko BS, aside. I am REALLY tired of the various blockades, etc. that they are continually causing and I will NOT be told by some indian where I can or cannot go in BC-Canada.

[2SHALLOW]

[QUOTE=bigwhiteys;1072480]My family outfitted there for a few decades, we know the area and the people still living there very well. I personally hope they throw up a motor restriction on the lake for starters. That would address some of the problems immediately but still leave the area open. The natives want to know how many moose are being killed and demanding compulsory moose inspection for 7-50-7-54 and they've been denied... so you can imagine what their next step is!
Carl why would they want numbers? Has there been that many moose taken out of the area? Its just a matter of time before they block the bridge!!!

Carl why would they want numbers? Has there been that many moose taken out of the area? Its just a matter of time before they block the bridge!!!

[2SHALLOW]

did you hear about anyone from pg getting charged driveing around the old mine site on his atv with a loaded gun ??? I dont know the new co up there but i know the retired onse .
There have been several charges and warnings last year for ATV's being used in the Muskwa Kechika, the rules are clear in the regs, weight restrictions, and stay on designated trails. If you have ever been into these area's lately you will see the regs are not being followed, sad part is 98% of the problem is not hunters going in its people quadding into the area on weekends and tearing it up, and i mean every weekend!! The new CO's do there job well, for the size of area we have up here its almost a joke, two guys!! But i get along great with them, follow the rules and they wont bother you its that simple.

[blueboy]

I agree with devilbear on this one .

[one-shot-wonder]

My family outfitted there for a few decades, we know the area and the people still living there very well. I personally hope they throw up a motor restriction on the lake for starters. That would address some of the problems immediately but still leave the area open. The natives want to know how many moose are being killed and demanding compulsory moose inspection for 7-50-7-54 and they've been denied... so you can imagine what their next step is!

Carl

We all know you guys used to own the territory in the past........BTW where is Bill these days?

As for the Natives wanting to know the moose harvest, firstly the GOS harvest is not very substantial, despite the old mine roads not alot of moose are harvested during Sept/Oct.....especially of the lake. In sept many of the bulls are still high back in the sheep valleys, come October there are very few resi's up there anymore and the few of us are targetting sheep/goats.

Secondly there are a handful of Natives living in the area (summer camp) utilizing the moose resource so there are plenty to go around.

[bigwhiteys]

We all know you guys used to own the territory in the past

Next door actually.


As for the Natives wanting to know the moose harvest, firstly the GOS harvest is not very substantial,

If you were to say across the entire M/U I would agree. If we're talking this localized area then no, I don't agree.


despite the old mine roads not alot of moose are harvested during Sept/Oct.....especially of the lake.

Right now nobody knows what's really coming out of there during any bull or 2pnt,10pnt, tri-palm other than G/O harvest.


In sept many of the bulls are still high back in the sheep valleys, come October there are very few resi's up there anymore and the few of us are targetting sheep/goats.

mid-to late september yes.


Secondly there are a handful of Natives living in the area (summer camp) utilizing the moose resource so there are plenty to go around.

There is quite a few more than a handful of natives utilizing the resource.

Carl

[Fisher-Dude]

When I stopped in to visit the natives' camp, the old WHITE guy living with them told me all about how HE had shot the 3 moose they were smoking.

I'd seriously question just how much the natives are harvesting themselves.

[The Dude]

...The natives... need to be severely dealt with because of their own depredations on BC wildlife and should have NO influence in MOE policy as they are not the "owners" of the land, all pinko BS, aside. I am REALLY tired of the various blockades, etc. that they are continually causing and I will NOT be told by some indian where I can or cannot go in BC-Canada.

All in all it's just a-nother brick in the Wall........

[bigwhiteys]

When I stopped in to visit the natives' camp, the old WHITE guy living with them told me all about how HE had shot the 3 moose they were smoking.

I'd seriously question just how much the natives are harvesting themselves.

I'd seriously question how much you know about the area or it's people by having one visit to their camp on the side of the highway, which is not even the Moose lake camp. You have no idea how they survive up there.

Carl

[Fisher-Dude]

Sorry Carl, we were at Moose Lake. The old boy yapped our ear off for over an hour.

[limit time]

Carl is right, i live in the area and there has been an issue with jet boats and quads, you are no longer allowed to run a side by side people got charged with them this year. Now i have been up this river in a small jet boat 16', the river is shallow but can be done early in the season. The lake is too shallow to run. We were stuck for 9 hours right in the middle, its not really a lake its more of a swamp and trust me there is no bottom to it it is pure muck. It is now a zoo during hunting season and that is why i no longer hunt the area but good for you for planning a trip and good luck. Out of curiosity what are you planning on hunting for?

I here "ZOO" and "GONG SHOW" thrown around here a lot , what constitutes as a "ZOO" and or "GONG SHOW"?? Ten boats...twenty boats...fifty boats...? Please, enlighten me.

[.330 Dakota]

Stirs up the bottom and free's up food for the fish

[Riverboatfantasy]

The area is subject to heavy traffic by recreational users - especially on long weekends. During the August long weekend the gravel pit was crowded with RV's and ATV's. I did not see a single boat and the launch appeared to be unused.

Any riverboat operator with a tiny amount of sense understands that Moose Lake is not a suitable place to operate a jet craft. Very sad to hear that jackasses are ripping around in there. It is very fortunate that this area is not close to the BC/Alta border. You would see what happens when an area is subject to reckless use by jackass Alberta motor heads.

The hunters that I encounter are responsible, safe, and respectful. Many recreational users that I encounter are drunken morons.