Some info on Deers hooves and antlers

[Jelvis]

Some interesting deer info I saw. The front hooves on a deer are larger than the back ones. When there is more than one inch of snow on the ground, all deer leave drag marks. During the rutting season bucks drag their feet even more than they ordinarily do, producing continuos drag marks in shallow snow. Leaves more glandular scent on the ground. Deer can trot hour after hour at 12 miles an hour. Hunters walk passed far more deer than they see. The largest and strongest bucks do most of the breeding, and these bucks drop thier antlers the earliest. Antlers are not mainly used for protection from predators. A deer protects itself by rearing up and slashing out with it's feet. Antlers have a social significance the bigger the antlers the higher up the dominance scale. The antlers drop off from january to march. Dropped antlers can be found on the deers wintering range. >> :smile: >> 100706 >> :lol: << Some things to think about >> << :arrow:

[Bigbuckadams]

"
When there is more than one inch of snow on the ground, all deer leave drag marks"
Most of your info seems to be correct, and although at times the above is true, it is not an accurate statement. Not sure where you received the info, but the millions of tracks I have seen in the snow says otherwise, unless of course the deer I have been hunting aren't really deer:lol: .
As a sidenote, a wise friend of mine always says, " The only tracks that truly matter, are the ones the buck is standing in ". :lol:

[mark]

A bunch of pretty common knowlege to me. Sounds like a report on deer from a grade 3 student!

[sawmill]

A bunch of pretty common knowlege to me. Sounds like a report on deer from a grade 3 student!


give the guy his moment,some of what he said was interesting.

[Jelvis]

Big Buck an Mister Adams, Markus, and sawmill cuttin some slack, yous guys, are all in the ballparks. Big, I thought the same a bit cause, different variables, differerent snow soft crusty etc etc. Some think they swing low to save energy. I noticed bucks in rut, >> put their wieght towards the front of thier hoofs. I go by how heavy the animals sink into the soil with thier hooves. In the right snow the track is a perfect specimum, IMHO. I'm not that young to know it all.--- > Sawmills says enjoy your 15 seconds.

[pupper]

i think around 6 inches would be more accurate because i could see tracks with and without drag marks in 4 inches of snow.
a tell tale sign on buck tracks in deep snow is also when you can see there antler drag marks in the snow as they sniff doe tracks.

try to spot some antler drag marks this late season

[Jelvis]

hoof lobes and dewclaws--the nails of four toes. made from keratin. the same substance as our finger nails. It's actually a type of solidified hair Tracks tell you how many deer went by and what direction they are going. If you see one medium large track with two smaller tracked deer it's a doe and her two fawns or yearlings. Sharp edged tracks are fresh cause rain takes the edges off. Sharp edge after rain, rounded edges before rain. Snow tells lies too when it starts to melt the deer track looks much bigger.

[Will]

JELVIS,
Here's what I look for when I think I'm following a "good" set of Tracks..........
.
.
.
http://www.muleymadness.com/gallery/d/6748-2/sage_fixed_012.jpg


The ONLY sure way to know when you're onto something Good :lol:


:wink:

[Jelvis]

Where did you take that picture Will ? and when? What MU?

[sawmill]

JELVIS,
Here's what I look for when I think I'm following a "good" set of Tracks..........
.
.
.
http://www.muleymadness.com/gallery/d/6748-2/sage_fixed_012.jpg


The ONLY sure way to know when you're onto something Good :lol:


:wink:That there`s a Texas heartshot.

[Will]

Where did you take that picture Will ? and when? What MU?
I didn't take it.......I stole it from MuleyMadness.com ;-)

[Jelvis]

Like finger prints on a human the bucks tracks are unique when imprinted on the forest floor. On big older bucks the front hooves get beat up and wore around the front. The buck is older and has walked his share in shale, rock and hard dirt and that has eroded the front of the big track to make it appear rounded. Big buck tracking tip, rounded off on front hooves due to older age and many miles walking through the rough terrain. Jel-knowthebuckbyhisshapedhoof.

[Jelvis]

A mule deers primary habitat is more open than other deer. On a deers hooves the outer rim part is much harder than the central portion.
During winter the feet concave (central portion) and convex in warmer weather.
When there is snow on the ground it's like a gossip column of everything that went on by the tracks. Jel

[Jelvis]

Deer are skulkers; they prefer to sneak away from danger rather than expose themselves by flight. Hunters walk past far more deer than they see. It has been said for every deer you see ten deer saw you, they snuck away or stood still and let you walk by like a big dumb animal. Jel-open your eyes. Look hard.

[Jelvis]

All deer, the whitetail, blacktail and mule deer are a challenge to hunt for all hunters.
For every deer in every year there is a season and a time for every purpose. Maybe not exactly the same for each species but close.
Several major events take place for all types of deer in all regions -- the time of the rut, birthing, growing antlers, peeling the velvet, and shedding the antlers.
It is along stream beds where you can find deer tracks in spring where the deer find the first green shoots on plants during the green-up of Spring, after snow and ice melt away under the warm rays of the delightful sunshine.
The whitetail for instance leaves the yarding areas of winter in the north, when the warm sun melts the snow and will not return til the next frigid winds make them yardup in protected pockets of the forest in winter.
Antlers are on all bucks in all three species, growing and falling off, over a one year period. then again the following year repeating the process once again. Jel-on all deer species here on in.

[BiG Boar]

if you take a deer hoof, dried into the woods, set a given ammount of pressure on it, check the depth sunk in next to the seen track, could you tell the rough wieght of a buck and size of it before pursueing it? Besides, does anyone in here actually follow these things at 12 kmph all day and night long to catch up to these things? Whats the point of caring about tracks other than seeing how many deer are in the woods.

[Jelvis]

I remember when I started hunting deer up the North River near Barriere. My uncle was my mentor. He showed me rubs on trees and old deer antlers he found shed on or near deer trails. I was in a dream world sorrounded by pine trees and boulders and dead trees. Grouse would flutter off the ground and I would jump.
My uncle showed me where a deer had walked by seeing the deers tracks in the soft dirt. I asked him lots of questions about how old the track was, how big a deer and was it a big rusty buck, my uncle called a trophy buck, a Big Rusty Buck. My little mind going crazee.
He told me a lot about sign the deer leave that we can read and guess what the story is telling us, how fresh, how big, how heavy which way has it gone?
My uncle told me track and sign is very important for a tracker and hunter to know how to interpret and therefore help to put it on the ground.
One thing he did say with a chuckle, "Jelvy, my little man, those deer tracks, make thin soup," c'mon I know where the deer is, little hunter." Track soup is thin.lol
Jel-Deer-Tracker on the look for thicker-soup lol.

[Jelvis]

Talking about deer hoof prints and tracks. Whats your take on tracking a deer or moose. Lots of fun when theres snow to track an animule. lol. Are you an experienced tracker? Deertracker.
Jel-hoof prints. Secrets and tricks of the track.

[Sooke Hunter]

A bunch of pretty common knowlege to me. Sounds like a report on deer from a grade 3 student!
Give it a rest, Mark....I'm sure you are an expert but there are others out there that might benefit from this info!!!:razz:

[kayjayess]

Post some more photos like that pig. Awesome frame on that buck. Light horned too

[hunter1947]

You look at the hoofs on elk they are also bigger on the front then the rear.

I think why this is is because they have more weight up front to carry around.

I don't know about a moose maybe some one can clarify if a moose also have bigger hoofs on the front???.

[The 'Hummer']

You look at the hoofs on elk they are also bigger on the front then the rear.

I think why this is is because they have more weight up front to carry around.

I don't know about a moose maybe some one can clarify if a moose also have bigger hoofs on the front???.

As I remember they do and I believe the same is true for Caribou.

[Squire]

The largest and strongest bucks do most of the breeding, and these bucks drop thier antlers the earliest.

In my experience, the larger bucks can hold onto their antlers the longest. I have spooked large bucks still carrying them after I've found a smaller bucks sheds in my favorite shed collecting area. I've also seen smaller bucks drop their antlers before the end of December while the larger ones won't drop them before Valentine's Day.

[Jelvis]

Dropping antlers is connected to hormones etc glandular system--big bucks do most breeding and when does are all bred no need for the big bucks to breed so levels go down. Smaller bucks like to hang around and pretend as long as possible and their antlers aren't as heavy so they stay on longer. imho Jelly-hormones-

[johnes50]

"Hunters walk passed far more deer than they see."

I agree with that 100%. They see even less if they drive by.

[Jelvis]

A deers unique defence includes standing perfectly still and behind a tree or partial body covered below a ridgeline. Unless you kick that buck in the butt he will hold tight and let you walk by.
Antlers start growing again in April. Some bucks have been seen in March with an antler on. One fella I know shot a big four point in Kamloops in December and he pulled on the antler hard and the antler came off the head at the pedistle.
Antlers are an amazing piece of art by nature. Jelly-Tines

[Johnnybear]

Antlers are an amazing piece of art by nature. Jelly-Tines

You got that right Jelly.

[tooley]

For Those Of You Who Don't Think There Is Much Sence In Paying Attention To Big Tracks: Sometimes You May Be Right, But I'll Take My Chances With The Bigger Track Every Time (unless I'm Looking For Some Nice Tender Meat).

[Jelvis]

tooley--r u --r u-- sayin the bigger the track the bigger tha deer bro. Is that what I'm hearin.
Jel-bigger tracks bigger animule?

[happygilmore]

For Those Of You Who Don't Think There Is Much Sence In Paying Attention To Big Tracks: Sometimes You May Be Right, But I'll Take My Chances With The Bigger Track Every Time (unless I'm Looking For Some Nice Tender Meat).

Tracked alot of does following the drag feet and the big track rules! However never seen a big buck with small feet!

[Squire]

Dropping antlers is connected to hormones etc glandular system--big bucks do most breeding and when does are all bred no need for the big bucks to breed so levels go down. Smaller bucks like to hang around and pretend as long as possible and their antlers aren't as heavy so they stay on longer. imho Jelly-hormones-


I agree that most of the literature on the subject could be interpretted to support that large bucks should drop their antlers first. If you agree that increased hormones are needed for breeding then the smaller bucks that don't breed start out with lower levels as well which could translate into dropping antlers sooner.

I have been picking up sheds in the same area of MU 3-16 for the last eighteen years and learned my lesson not to disturb the big bucks too soon or all I find is smaller sheds. I surprised two large bucks still carrying their headgear on Valentine's Day one year and never picked them up that year. I did go back the next year in the last week of February and found the one big guy's sheds. This one buck I have picked up three matching sets for in four years - I am missing the set I saw on his head. In case you are wondering, I saw one of the two big ones late in the hunting season and missed my chance.

I also had a friend shoot a two-point in the same area in December and the antlers fell off when the deer hit the ground. (This was before the 4-point only season for the MU.)

This is my experience contained within a specific area and I am sharing it not to dispute the general knowledge but to say that there are some exceptions.

[Jelvis]

Squire -- I believe there are always exceptions, why we might never know.
Univ of BC did a study on deer years ago to find out that deer are affected by the amount of daylight entering the deers eye.
Photo-periodism is what its called. When the light into the deers eyes were simulating the same as real light but the seasons were changed. When the light was adjusted to be a different season the deers antlers were growing different. Each day the amount of light gets shorter after the first day of summer as it goes to winter soltice. Once reached the first day of winter the daylight gets longer each day til the first day of summer. Then it starts to get shorter again and that is what affects the deers system. The amount of light entering its eye.
The deer being tested were growing the antlers when the other natural deer were dropping theirs because of the controlled light entering the deers eyes in the experiment. So the deduction is the deers systems are controlled and operated by the amount of daylight in each day as it increases and decreases each day by 4 minutes.
Breeding too, antler growth etc all by amount of daylight.
Thats why deer have fawns at the same time each year and grow their antlers the same too. Not because of frost or temperatures which only stimulate activity and not the dates of antler growth and things like birth dates, which are the same each year. Jelness-your in the know-Joe.

[Squire]

Squire -- I believe there are always exceptions, why we might never know.
Univ of BC did a study on deer years ago to find out that deer are affected by the amount of daylight entering the deers eye.
Photo-periodism is what its called. When the light into the deers eyes were simulating the same as real light but the seasons were changed. When the light was adjusted to be a different season the deers antlers were growing different. Each day the amount of light gets shorter after the first day of summer as it goes to winter soltice. Once reached the first day of winter the daylight gets longer each day til the first day of summer. Then it starts to get shorter again and that is what affects the deers system. The amount of light entering its eye.
The deer being tested were growing the antlers when the other natural deer were dropping theirs because of the controlled light entering the deers eyes in the experiment. So the deduction is the deers systems are controlled and operated by the amount of daylight in each day as it increases and decreases each day by 4 minutes.
Breeding too, antler growth etc all by amount of daylight.
Thats why deer have fawns at the same time each year and grow their antlers the same too. Not because of frost or temperatures which only stimulate activity and not the dates of antler growth and things like birth dates, which are the same each year. Jelness-your in the know-Joe.

I love a good debate; with mutual respect of course.

If I am to follow this line of thinking, then hormones have less to do with antler dropping than photo-periodism. This would mean that all deer within a specific area have the same photo-period(amount of daylight) so they should all drop their antlers around the same time?

I have seen yours and other shed collecting threads/posts and you guys have kicked my a$$ in terms of large mule deer antlers found. The area I pick up sheds is mostly from Mulie/Blacktail cross and a large set is in the 150's.

I really enjoyed the advice about searching a grid to find the matching side of a found antler. I employed this technique years ago on my biggest single only to give up after four hours and found the match a mile away on my hike out of the area. During this four hour search I found the match to a single from the year before under a small fir tree's branches about 15' from where I found the other half - too bad it got chewed up in the interim. I have also found two sets of four-point antlers literally laying on top of each other. I wish I had taken pictures - the ones posted from in the field are great!

Have you been able to identify within days when some sheds have been cast as I have? I am curious as to your experience as opposed to your knowledge.

[Jelvis]

Ya great point about knowledge and experience for sure. I usually find mine when hunting. I come across them as I'm hunting my deer cuz I hunt usually in the winter range/breeding/fighting areas around Kammy and Barriere and Cherry Creeks.
I have found some that are white bleached from sun and some nice shiny deep brown in a shaded area.
You know what amazed me when I found out that one shed hunter followed a buck in spring until he found where the buck dropped it's antlers, now thats determination.
Some bucks hit their antler on a tree when they feel it seperating a bit and knock it off, others don't and when they jump over a creek or a fence it falls off from the jolt.
The left side usually falls off first according to studies, no reason given.
No matter what theres nothing feels as good as coming across a nice shed---blacktail or mule--and no matter what size. I found a two point shed on Mara mtn that was 5 inches long. I could'nt believe how small it was.
Jelly-and the shed hunting fools.

[Squire]

I may have the record shed found - it is one inch long by one inch in diameter. It is just the base of a broken off two-point, most likely, and long healed over. I found it base-side up in the snow and expected to pull out an antler - surprise!

[ianwuzhere]

i just wanna see some pix of some big deer taken recent now...;)

[Jelvis]

I know a fella that found a muley shed 90 incher one side up near Kamloops recently---X 2 = 180 incher. Not bad for a wall hanger cuz this year will be even bigger. Jelious

[Jelvis]

Why is it bucks fight with a buck the same size, equal in weight and mass and width? Almost like fighters in weight classes. lol. You did'nt know that? Wow! I thought you would have. lol. Oh well you know now. Jel's-free facts

[Jelvis]

The shed hunters are beginning to report good returns on their shed hunting time spent looking for the tine treasures. So Middle of March in some areas around the Okanagan lakes up to just under 4000 ft elevations is the time to excercise those legs and find some bone. April too! Let's get out there, every where the deer winter, including where you hunt in late fall.
Look for some good sized one's cuz B.C. has world class mule deer buck racks in a good number of the herds. Thompson/Okanagan regions are close to the lower mainland and have record bucks.
Jel -- Antlers start growing back in April --- good luck and have fun ---

[Jelvis]

April 2nd and saw a mule deer buck a yearling with two new antlers in velvet about two inches long. First one for me that I saw on April 2nd of 09.
Saw five deer only the one had new start of antlers already.
Jel -- new antlers growing already. on 2nd of April.

[Jelvis]

Hello hunters out there in cyberspace looking for hunting in bc, you got it.
It's November 3rd and the bucks are solid antlers polished too.
Rubbing on trees and bushes and fighting a bit as well as fathering a tribe of new deer, bucks and doe fawns, will be born in Summer.
Antlers and hooves too now, but still in great shape yet and mid form already.
Jelne$$

[Jelvis]

It's March endo of Winter beginning of Spring and soon what happens?
give me and others information on whitetail and mule and blacktail antlers and hooves ...
jello bread pudding .. the proofs in the pudding .. too many cooks spoil the broth .. who cut the cheese? lol

[Jelvis]

A thread to study if you want to hunt MU 3-28 for mules on LEH or MU 3-27 for mules.
Roxy asked me to bring this up, and Rocko and Roddy dah Body.
Do you know how big and long a mule bucks track is? In inches? How wide also besides long?
Jelly for Roxy -- Roxy says, " Hey hunters know your muley tracks, c yah all up Wolsey road, the Fox."