First nations hunting rights

[ratherbefishin]

I have hunted in British Columbia for 45 years,qualifying and following all the usual regulations,however, being the adoptive father of several first nations children[status],I am trying to find out what exactly are the rights and priveleges they qualify for.The regs state they do not need a hunting licence and LEH may[not will] apply.They are allowed to take game for food and ceremonial purposes-in their ''traditional hunting areas.So far, so good-but the question comes up about hunting OUTSIDE their ''traditional '' area.I have on good report, any first nations person wishing to hunt outside his ''traditional area'' can apply to the band in whose area he wishes to hunt and be given permission for taking game-just as they would themselves.
I have checked with the Fish and Game department-and was told that this is an area they do not actively pursue.Obviously,I do not want to put my boy in an embarrasing position-could any of the readers who qualify under the first nations provisions please either in box me-or post what the rules and protocols are-I have no wish to offend nor jeoprodise anyone.

*for the record-I have never used any of my childrens status cards for my own advantage

[Rainwater]

As far as I am aware the F & G dept has attempted to charge First Nations people hunting outside of their traditional territory without a letter of permission from the local band. This is not unlike what would have happened 150 years age except back then the penalty could have been death or enslavery. I would suggest that your kids apply to the local bands where they would like to hunt and if given permission they offer a trade of somekind, salmon for deer etc.

[ratherbefishin]

yes,I have been told that traditional protocol would indicate he bring a gift as a token of acknowlegement and respect-however- no one suggested what an appropriate gift might be.

[Rainwater]

It's not the appropriateness it's the gift.

[overthetop]

Outside their band's land they can hunt within the regs but don't need a liscence or tags.

[3kills]

i have been told the same thing about gettin permission from the areas band.....i know alot of first nations that dont do it though but to me that is illegal...dont forget under first nation tradition ur son cant eat his first deer he has to give it away...

[ratherbefishin]

Hopefully,I;m going to teach him to respect the land and the resource, and not abuse his inherent rights.He has a foot in both worlds-the traditional world of his ancestors and the modern day world we live and work in.My father taught me to hunt and to respect what I killed,and I have passed those values on to my sons born to me[european ancestry],and now to my adopted sons[aboriginal]
Unfortionately learning some of the traditions and the protocols can be dificult-and finding who to talk to,a lot of the elders have passed on now

[oscar makonka]

Hopefully,I;m going to teach him to respect the land and the resource, and not abuse his inherent rights.He has a foot in both worlds-the traditional world of his ancestors and the modern day world we live and work in.

We can reflect on and respect the traditional world of the past, but most of us cannot live in it. Heritage is one thing, conservation is another. If they want to contribute to wildlife then get these kids to take hunter training and buy hunting licences and tags. I know of several progressive natives who buy hunting licences and abide by modern hunting regulations/seasons and feel better for it even though they don't have to. They just feel that subsistence hunting should be left for those that actually live out on the land. They are part of the modern world and make their living from it, they also believe they should contribute to modern wildlife management like everyone else. They still cherish and celebrate their heritage but realize times have changed.

[Will]

We can reflect on and respect the traditional world of the past, but most of us cannot live in it. Heritage is one thing, conservation is another. If they want to contribute to wildlife then get these kids to take hunter training and buy hunting licences and tags. I know of several progressive natives who buy hunting licences and abide by modern hunting regulations/seasons and feel better for it even though they don't have to. They just feel that subsistence hunting should be left for those that actually live out on the land. They are part of the modern world and make their living from it, they also believe they should contribute to modern wildlife management like everyone else. They still cherish and celebrate their heritage but realize times have changed.
Now that's the Best written set of Thoughts I've ever heard on this Topic8)

[3kills]

oh ya just remember a status card is not there right to hunt or fish they have to actaully got get a hunting card from the band...i never knew that till my ex brother in law told me and showed me his....

[overthetop]

i have been told the same thing about gettin permission from the areas band.....i know alot of first nations that dont do it though but to me that is illegal...dont forget under first nation tradition ur son cant eat his first deer he has to give it away...

I'd be carefull there. The legislation says "For food or cerimonial purposes only" and they get real pissy when you hunt and give it to non natives.

[ianwuzhere]

oh ya just remember a status card is not there right to hunt or fish they have to actaully got get a hunting card from the band...i never knew that till my ex brother in law told me and showed me his....

my father has status- and have never heard about any kind of card other then gill netting for salmon or otherwise huntin in another region- when we get pulled over by the CO's they check everything i got when fishin and just see my dads status and go back to check out my stuff cuz i not status.
i feel as if i am less of a person, or a tourist huntin with someone who is status and sitting next to someone who can shoot whatever whenever and not pay or give back a single thing. family of mine has status also- hunted with them and still feel same way- i feel i put in my contributions for funding etc but wheres theirs?
- in my opinion - if u are going to live off land then ok- shoot whatever to survive- but this is the old days with no electricity- everyone should be treated equal, and i dont know anyone who is living off the land and that cannot adbide by the same regulations as we all have to.. is discrimination the rite word?
dont wanna open a can of worms but thats my 2 bits.
~cheers~

[3kills]

I'd be carefull there. The legislation says "For food or cerimonial purposes only" and they get real pissy when you hunt and give it to non natives.

i ment to family memebers or whatever....i know a lot of natives and my neice is native and thats there belief u cant eat ur first kill...

[overthetop]

I never knew that.

[jessbennett]

ianwuzhere, well put........ in order for us to be able to pass on our heritage beit native or not to our children, there has to be a common ground as to rules and regulations to abide by. so that the wildlife and natural resources are still here generations from now. i think that anyone who hunts or fishes should have to buy a liscence, tag, and abide by the bag limits and regulations of the province. this helps to contribute to the wildlife habitat conservation fund. what is good for one cant be bad for the other. there has to be a middle road i think. i live off the land also, i use the meat to feed my family, but i have rules and regulations to abide by. i cant go and shoot whatever whenever. im not trying to sound like a biggot or anything but things have to change in my opinion. i think everyone should be treated equal in this and thats it. i can remember a few years back, that our immature bull moose season was cancelled because there was some concern expressed by the native bands in the area that the moose population was too low. well...... if there was that much concern about it, then moose should have been off limits to everyone period.... until the populations increased.it just didnt make sense to me. the non native people could not hunt moose because off minimal moose populations, but it was okay for natives???? and then be able to shoot cow,calf or bull???? i dont know, seems awfully one sided to me. once again, not looking to sound whiney or anything, just an opinion, and if i have offended anyone i truly am sorry, but im sure im not alone..

[The Hermit]

We can reflect on and respect the traditional world of the past, but most of us cannot live in it. Heritage is one thing, conservation is another. If they want to contribute to wildlife then get these kids to take hunter training and buy hunting licences and tags. I know of several progressive natives who buy hunting licences and abide by modern hunting regulations/seasons and feel better for it even though they don't have to. They just feel that subsistence hunting should be left for those that actually live out on the land. They are part of the modern world and make their living from it, they also believe they should contribute to modern wildlife management like everyone else. They still cherish and celebrate their heritage but realize times have changed.

Well said! I wish all first nations people would adopt those attitudes and practices, regards both hunting and fishing! It makes my blood boil to know that there is a commercial native fishery that doesn't abide by the same conservation principles and regulations everyone else. To me that is just plain wrong!

[kutenay]

ANYONE BORN IN CANADA IS A NATIVE CANADIAN and that is that. ANY special status based on ethnic ancestry is RACIST and therefore WRONG.

IF, we are ever to develop a truely egalitarian society in Canada, we MUST TREAT everyone exactly the same in ALL matters, including hunting, fishing and access to any of our resources. The present situation is wrong, racist and very deliberately put in place to advance the eventual take-over of OUR resources by corporate interests "co-operating" with the Indians....just as happened in Alaska, years ago.

The use of terms, such as "First Nations" which are recently invented political "baffle-gab' designed to deliberately mangle our language and alter the perceptions of ordinary people to accept special status based on race, is itself, RACIST and demeaning to ALL Canadians. There is ONE Canada and ONLY ONE Canada and we need to remember that, or, soon there will be NO Canada, only a resource "pit" for international corporations.

I can document my direct family forbearers coming to North America, both the eastern USA and "Nova Scotia" in the early 17C.;, so, does this mean that since MY ancestors "were here first", I should have "rights" greater than those of someone whose family came to Canada after WWII, for example? This is a VERY dangerous game to play and we need to get active in fighting against ANY special "rights"; this is NOT bigoted, it is what genuine equality is based on.

[Fisher-Dude]

Wow, the lid is off the can, the worms are ready to come out! For ratherbefishin's original question, I would caution him with the following: as a non-native, you run the risk, technically, of breaking the law if you handle/move game that was not shot in a legal season, even though your son may shoot it legally. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but an "officious" CO may view it by the book, and there could be a problem. Our local CO's have had quite a few problems with non-natives hunting with status natives, and have been investigating a few cases. Just a consideration for the course you choose to take...

[jessbennett]

the conservation officers here rarely follow up on any complaints they recieve. out with my wife and kids the other night, just shotting a few chickens and got harassed by a truck load of natives in a brand new ford superduty. told me it was native traditional hunting land and to get the *%$# out of there...... i asked him wheres the sign? (was a public logging road). he said sign for what? i said the sign saying its native land only? he said there isnt one and i said i didnt think so.... he told me to be careful because i aam barking up the wrong tree. i asked him if that was a threat? i just told him to show me proof tht this was private land for the sole use of indians and i would abide by that because i dont break the law. said thank you good day and carried on.... seen a nice big bull moose that night too.let me tell ya if things are going to stay like this..... what would happen if i went on reserve land and downed a moose????yikes!!!!!!!!!it seems as though things are getting awfully heated around here with natives and non natives....

[chinooker]

Hunting and fishing Are also part of my heritage that have been passed down through several generations. One canada One defintion for Canadian citizen.

[kutenay]

If an Aboriginal person, or group thereof, threatened me, as has happened in the past when I was serving in the Alberta Forest Service on Athabaska Tower, I would act in a "traditional" fashion. My pioneer ancestors were primarily serving officers with The Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders, The Royal Highland Regiment aka The Black Watch and The Brigade of Guards; my "traditions" have won wars all over the World, for centuries.

I wonder, exactly WHICH Aboriginal "tradition" was it that "invented" the Ford F-350 Superduty????

If, we back down from democratic equity, we WILL lose our rights and have only ourselves to blame; this country belongs to ALL CANADIANS, NOT JUST SOME!!!!!!

Long ago, a "Metis" leader murdered a man by the name of Thos. Scott in a most cowardly way, even though this leader's own priest and mentor begged him not to kill the unfortunate victim. The "crime" for which the innocent man was brutally killed was "insubordination" as he refused to obey the edicts of a self-styled "nation" and it's "leader" the savage killer, Louis Riel.

The Right Honourable Sir John Alexander MacDonald, Prime Minister of Canada, upon hearing of this, apparently exclaimed, "Riel wants a war and, by God, we are going to give it to him"......Louis Riel was hanged for this murder at Regina, in November of 1885. There may be a historical lesson here for the radicals who are causing trouble..............

[Ozone]

Sorry I dont now anything about status rights. I just wanted to congradulate you on adopting some kids. I am sure they will turn out to be fine young gentlemen with your guideance.

[ratherbefishin]

Gentlemen, please! I had no intention of throwing rocks at a hornets nest!I just was inquiring about protocols,rights and priveleges.As a foster parent of 20 years, I have experianced racially motivated abuse and discrimination form ALL sides-ignorance comes in all colours.

I am well aware of people abusing the system-be they natives shooting game and not utilizing it just because they can,or intimidating other non native hunters-both of which are unconsciencable.

But,I ask in all fairness-is that so very diferant than than the corporations that lobby for government grants even when they are making huge profits[the oil industry]while you and I pay the limit in income taxes-simply because we don't qualify for government subsidies that they have lobbied for?Or is there any diference between the native who intimidates the other hunter and the corporation who muscles out the competition just because they have the money and the clout?Are either right?

While I would be as outraged as anyone else at being intimidated by natives ''shutting out'' non native hunters-has anybody shopped at Wall Mart for hunting or fishing supplies,instead of their local sporting goods store-then rushed over to be first in line at the bankruptcy sale ?

Or-what about the animal rights groups that qualify for tax deductions in order to attract money which in turn is used to shut down the fur industry that supports a rural lifestyle,both by native and non native canadians?Those same tax supported animal rights groups threaten the lifestyle and values of all of us here.

I am not excusing abuse,intimidation , bad manners,or intolerance by ANY group-I am simply wanting to aquaint myself with the rights,responsabilities and priveleges of my kids-and just because some individuals are ignorant,does not entitle anybody to tar the whole community with the same brush -in either camp

[kutenay]

I agree, however, this IS an increasing problem throughout BC and Canada and it is making many people VERY angry. My comments were made in support of most of what you have just posted, except, I do not consider myself a ...non-native... Canadian and I will not tolerate ANY suggestion that I am somehow lesser in MY "home and native land" than ANY other person.

I and those like me PAY for the ...privileges...enjoyed by some and that alone entitles me to some influence on the situation. I do not see where I have tarred anybody at all, I simply and strongly advocate equality AND self-defence against threats, violence and intimidation. I will refrain from further posts on this as I have no wish to hurt your feelings and have made my point.

[ratherbefishin]

I am NOT disagreeing on the subject of boorish or intimidating behaviour-and the few who engage in it do their people and cause no good.But-I've experianced it from BOTH sides.I've had my credit card refused appearently because I had a native kid with me-and basically followed around a car lot by a ''salesman''who never once asked meif I was interested in a car[a little diferent treatment than I get when I show up in my ''working clothes''- a suit and tie.the guy didn't know I could have paid cash for any one of his cars on the lot-and bought the lot as well]I have also been subjected to abuse from a drunken native simply because I wanted to show my boy how salmon were traditionally harvested with a forked spear.Ignorance comes in all colours

[Patrick]

I, too, am part of a blended family. So, I would agree with you that ignorance is not bound by color. As to your first post: The laws and regulations are confused. The problem seems to be the various levels of government involved and the treaties signed or being negotiated. To be absolutely sure, it might be good to search out a lawyer who hunts and fishes. In my wifes case,she would buy a licence to hunt in B.C. since this is not her traditional area and seek a letter from the appropriate Band. This can be complicated if more than one Band is in disagreement about the area.In her home province she would not need a licence in the area we usually hunt. Interestingly, it is her opinion that she doesn't need the licence not because of the treaty, but because it is her families traditional trap line not the Bands traditional area. They were classed as Metis/non-status before Bill C-31 came along since they did not orginally sign the treaty. In any case, your son as a native hunter who understands both worlds may have to become a lawyer to sort out where he can hunt and what permissions he will need. Perhaps as suggested above, the easiest route at the moment is to buy a licence and carry a status card. Good hunting!

[Gateholio]

Guys, knock off the hijack.

If you wantto discuss the political aspect of native hunting, start another thread.

ratherbefishing, I will close this thread if you prefer. Or delete all posts not pertaining to your situation if you prefer, just let me know.

[Patrick]

I apologize if my post is unclear. I was trying to point out that it is difficult for well meaning folks to follow the rules even if one wants to do the right thing.

[Islandeer]

Traditional hunting rights, okay, traditional hunting areas, alright, traditional hunting weapons and transport ... fine by me.

[Gateholio]

Locked for now....