Identifying Canines in the bush, forests and field meadows for hunting purposes?

[Jelvis]

----deleted------

[new hunter]

coyotes are smaller and skinnier than wolves , features are a little more feminine or even fox like ( pointier face ) . All the coyotes around here seem to have sandy coloured coats , usually a little grey under fur and black tips on the hairs .
I believe wolves are more thick in the front , although I'm no expert .
You see enough coyotes and you'll recognise them from a mile away . They have a certain walk , kind of a short stride and it looks like theyre running on theyre tip toes .
Dogs seem a little more lumbering in theyre stride , they have a different gait and they almost seem more clumsy .
I don't know about responding to a call , but when you see a coyote they always look like theyre on a mission , and they almost always seem to stop once theyre near cover and look at you . Dogs on the other hand seem to be more aimless and easilly distracted. Think of when you see dogs roaming youre neighberhood , theyre on vacation and sight seeing , wereas when you see a coyote theyre generally at work and seem to know were there going and what theyre doing .
As for vocalising , coyotes make more of a broken yip call , not the long toned howl that wolves are known too . As far as I know , niether wild species is known to bark .

[Jelvis]

--------------------

[olympia]

coyotes have nicer bums too

[Jelvis]

---------------------

[SHAKER]

I think the wolf has a tail that is held above body line while the coyote holds it tail straight out or slightly down.
This is what some canine hunter was telling me about the different traits of canine as seen from either side view, walking or tripping along
What worries my trigger finger and causes me to stop, look and see how it looks like someones lost malla-mute or some thing weird calms over my Husqvarna ott 6 it says no go, and I can't tell if it's a wolf or a husky domestic and I seeeez up, start shaking, Bow wow they look so similar it creeps me out. I doubt I lose my clout, I see it's snout, my mind reroutes, I shout out, I dang yah dawg- a -dangy dangy a double dingy dingy- doggy dog a K9-
Jelly(K9)hunting .. Yah know whad I meen? Talk to me

Take'em both and don't worry about it.

[warnniklz]

I think Metallica wrote an album about this?? Kill Em All...

[bigslim]

I think the wolf has a tail that is held above body line while the coyote holds it tail straight out or slightly down.
This is what some canine hunter was telling me about the different traits of canine as seen from either side view, walking or tripping along
What worries my trigger finger and causes me to stop, look and see how it looks like someones lost malla-mute or some thing weird calms over my Husqvarna ott 6 it says no go, and I can't tell if it's a wolf or a husky domestic and I seeeez up, start shaking, Bow wow they look so similar it creeps me out. I doubt I lose my clout, I see it's snout, my mind reroutes, I shout out, I dang yah dawg- a -dangy dangy a double dingy dingy- doggy dog a K9-
Jelly(K9)hunting .. Yah know whad I meen? Talk to me

I think first you work on your language skills, then move on to predators. I'm not sure if it's Jelvis I'm replying to or Snoop-Dog LOL

[Jetboat]

"Take 'em both and don't worry about it" is about as good of advice as it gets.

[SHAKER]

I think Metallica wrote an album about this?? Kill Em All...

1979 I believe? and still true today!

[warnniklz]

1979 I believe? and still true today!

July 25 1983... kill em all... sad... but true today...

[Jelvis]

----------------------

[steel_ram]

Husky, Wolf cross dogs have been mistaken for wolves. Even one wearing a red bandana on this island. Don't want to be blasting some tree planters companion.

[Jelvis]

------------------------

[ncurrie]

trust me when you see a wold you will not confuse it for a coyote:)

http://comingbackalive.com/animalwolves.html

[Jelvis]

--------------------------

[finngun]

[QUOTE=ncurrie;1051359]trust me when you see a wold you will not confuse it for a coyote:)

very true.. last oct. lumby area wolf cross the road ahead of me.... no mistake coyote for that...vayyy bigger huskier..real big bad wolf...didn' wait bullet...

[ncurrie]

There was two of them on my front yard a couple of weeks ago, they made my 110 lb lab look like a poodle, one was black and the smaller one was gray, very majestic looking animals:)

[Jelvis]

---------------------------

[Jelvis]

----------------------.

[hunter1993ap]

i always think about this when i go out to try and get a coyote. i am always worried before i see one but when i see it it so distinguishable i dont think i could mistake it for a dog. i have seen a police man and his dog in the area twice and i definately wouldnt want to shoot a german shepard instead of a coyote.. this is why i am very carefull when i identify whatever i am shooting at, especially coyotes.

[604redneck]

ya as long as wolves and yotes are open where you are blast them!

[Jelvis]

---------------------------

[IronNoggin]

... The man that was with the dog owner says the blood test would prove the dog was too much wolf to be legal, I could not believe the size of that wolf/dog cross.

NO such thing in this province JellyBean. "Too much wolf to be legal" translates to 100%. The BC SPCA started an initiative to outlaw Wolf Hybrids a couple years back now. Under direct intimidation from a handful of owners and their Lawyers (mine included btw) that proposal, based on the concept that "all Wolf Hybrids are inherently dangerous", was quickly withdrawn.

Some Hybrids can and do reach amazing sizes. My current male weighs in at over 150 pounds. One of the males he fathered is rapidly closing in on 200!

Not so easy to identify a Hybrid when out in the bush alright. We've had several that VERY much looked like their wild kin. Of course we always took extra care with those (BIG florescent orange collars, and NEVER running free during open seasons) to prevent any unfortunate situations.

And the Wolves in many areas have bred with domestic dogs, further complicating the matter. This is particularly true on the Island. I've seen quite a handful here that my experienced eye strongly suggests are Hybrids. A few years back now we shot several up Island (on the beach at Friendly Cove after the local pack ravaged the caretakers dogs - killing one of them). Of those, better than half displayed characteristics of having domestic dog somewhere back in their lineage.

Pays to be CERTAIN of your target! Methinks no-one would want to be in the shoes of anyone who ever shot one of my Companions!

Cheers,
Nog

[steel_ram]

Thousands of years to domesticate the wild animal out of the dog . Why go backwards?

[Drillbit]

Have been told by several hunters that they just saw a wolf.
Show them a coyote picture and they say "Yep, just like that one!"

Doesn't surprise me either.

[IronNoggin]

Thousands of years to domesticate the wild animal out of the dog . Why go backwards?

Intelligence, Stamina, Incredible Nose, Excellent Companionship, Protection, Beauty... and many more reasons. Yes, you can find individual breeds of domestics that bring a few of those to the table. The Hybrid brings them ALL!

Not for everyone certainly. But for those with the room, more importantly the TIME, they are damn tough to beat!

Cheers,
Nog

[Rock Doctor]

Why would you shoot at a big canine if you were not sure if it was some ones dog around the corner? How would a new shooter wolf hunter know for sure is what I'm saying, so, would you know for sure and shoot. If so tell me how you know, so that we know, when to start throwing lead with confidence.
Jel (Lead in yer pencil) Go!

If you can see a Leash between the "dog" and a person, then you know for sure and don't shoot. Otherwise, fire away:twisted:

RD

[Rock Doctor]

Oppps, Double Tap.

[finngun]

jello- bello.... have you ever seen real wolf wild ......? f-g

[35rem]

[QUOTE=Jelvis;1051401 The man that was with the dog owner says the blood test would prove the dog was too much wolf to be legal, I could not believe the size of that wolf/dog cross.
[/QUOTE]


Absolute nonsense. Dog DNA is indistinguishable from wolf DNA. FWIW the biggest Malamute I have ever come across was named Ralphie and weighed 220 lbs.

[35rem]

BTW a good rule of thumb is to not shoot it if it wears a collar...

[Brett]

the Hub, Mule Deer City.

really? .............

[IronNoggin]

Absolute nonsense. Dog DNA is indistinguishable from wolf DNA.

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/20.gif Just where did you dig that little gem up? Speaking of "absolute nonsense"... http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif

The science of analyzing & understanding DNA has come a long way. At this point there are recognized genetic markers for every recognized domestic breed. In fact, many labs can now tell you from their analysis close to the exact content of each varying breed in your own pup. The same exists for wild canids, with a good handful of labs being able to determine the origins of almost any given sample (wolf, coyote, fox, whatever) as long as they have a matching reference sample in their data bank.

I have had several of our Hybrids tested over time. The labs were not only able to determine approximate percentage of what was in the mix (as in the case with Auilu: 1/2 Arctic Wolf, 1/4 Shepherd, 1/4 Lab) but in many cases where the origin of the wolf content was (Victoria Island in her case).

Domestic dogs and wolves share a lot of genetic traits. However, to suggest they are indistinguishable via DNA analysis is indeed "absolute nonsense". Really.

Cheers,
Nog

[Caveman]

In Kamloops the coyotes come down to the valley floor around the edges of the N shore after dark.
One guy told me he seen some wolf down off Ord Road and I doubted it, but do wolf ever come close to Kamloops?
Jel .. Big Bad Wolf any where near Kammy, the Loops, the Windy city, the Hub, Mule Deer City.

Not sure what you consider close, Jelvis but I've seen them aroud Lac du bois Lk, and just above Westsyde on the pipeline below O'Connor lake, so only a couple km out

[Jelvis]

------------------------

[35rem]

Hate to burst your bubble, but these "recognized genetic markers for every recognized domestic breed" have not been validated by independent studies. Read this article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204518504574416810535466706.html

And this one:

http://www.webheads.co.uk/sleddog/ezine/dna.htm


Perhaps at some time in the future we will have a reliable and independently verifiable DNA tests to distinguish between dogs and wolves and even identify individual breeds, but at this moment the "tests" out there fail to meet reasonable accuracy.


If you will send me a picture of the dog (2 views), two cheek swabs, and $75 I will confirm your dog's ancestry. If you don't know what breed it is I will tell you. (Don't forget the $75,if you can't get pictures or cheek swabs you can send them later.)

[Jelvis]

------------------------

[IronNoggin]

Hate to burst your bubble, but these "recognized genetic markers for every recognized domestic breed" have not been validated by independent studies.

As alluded to in the article you cited, the degree of accuracy relies completely upon the number of cataloged reference samples in the lab's data base. I personally know of a couple in Canada, and a few in the Sates whose data sets are FAR more extensive than those cited in the article. None of those I am aware of offer their analysis to the general public. They are Research Facilities, manned by Professional Scientists. Having reviewed a number of their published peer-reviewed results, I tend to believe what they, as Professionals, are saying. MUCH more so than relying on internet profit-margin-based companies' claims to being able to approach anywhere near the same level of accuracy.

What Dr. Sampson was referring to back in the 90's (second article) was already being researched to some extent by North American labs even back then. Jump forward a decade and a half, and our level of understanding has increased substantially. Again, reliability is a function of the established data base. And again, in North America (perhaps world-wide - I have not investigated this much off our own continent) there exist labs with individual data sets that would rival what was at the disposal of the entire world back in the mid '90's. Couple that with the exponential advances with the science involved over the same time period, and I sincerely doubt Dr. Sampson would be suggesting the same today.

One quote from him still VERY much holds true today: "We have no way of knowing at the genetic level what genes are responsible for what behavioural characteristics."

I strongly agree, as IMO conditional training can and does effect behavioral characteristics as much, perhaps more, than genetic make up.

Determining the the level of influence of ancestry within any animal is a tricky goal, requiring levels of precision most of us could simply never get their minds wrapped around. But it is an attainable goal. Genetic markers have well proven their worth in delineating adjacent wildlife populations (Caribou, Beluga Whales & Polar Bears the ones I am most familiar with) and the level of mixing (interbreeding) amongst the same.

In the case of Asuilu which I mentioned, we already knew much of her background. Her father was an Arctic Wolf that did originate from Victoria Island. Her mother was the product of intentionally mixing a German Shepherd sire with a Black Lab female - both registered purebreds. We were lucky in that the Research Facility her blood work was sent to was familiar to me - I knew of their operations as a working Biologist, and I just happened to have a good Buddy who worked there. Doubtful that anyone who would have wandered in off the street could have induced them to perform the rather expensive analysis required to obtain the results they did.

That lab was not given any indication of what we believed the heredity of the sample was. Their results came back: Approaching or at 50% Arctic Wolf (Canis lupus arctos) with > 85% certainty of origin from Victoria Island, NWT; Approaching or near 25% German Shepherd with > 65% certainty of North American lineage; and Approaching or near 25% Black Lab with > 65% certainty of North American lineage.

Fluke? Doubtful given the degree to which their analysis matched what we already knew. I'd go so far as to suggest that this particular test fell well within the bounds of "Reasonable Accuracy".

Cheers,
Nog

[sarg]

BTW a good rule of thumb is to not shoot it if it wears a collar...
and thats a good rule to follow, or dont have a dog in the brush durning hunting season that looks like a wolf or coyote,

[Peter Pepper]

and thats a good rule to follow, or dont have a dog in the brush durning hunting season that looks like a wolf or coyote,

My dog has a blaze orange harness. If sombody mistakes him for a wolf, i will mistake them for a bear.

[curt]

I think first you work on your language skills, then move on to predators. I'm not sure if it's Jelvis I'm replying to or Snoop-Dog LOL
now that is funny!!!!

[sarg]

My dog has a blaze orange harness..
then u should be good. i have never seen a wolf or coyote with a orange harness on.
sarg

[russm86]

A co-worker of my dad's had her dog nabbed by wolves in Pineview, a residential area above costco in Kamloops. We didnt believe her figured it was coyotes as I have seen coyotes in the middle of Kamloops and have seen them try to lure away dogs for food but we asked a CO about it and apparently its not the first time this has happened in that area and there is actually a small pack of wolves that migrates through that end of town on a yearly basis, around the time her dog got taken from right out in front of her, that they already know about. So they will travel around, and possibly through, town especially when we start encroaching their traditional migratory paths/territories. It may take some time fro them to learn new routes or areas to avoid the human expansion.

[Jelvis]

deleted posts