Help stop a no hunting proposal - west kootenays

[mrdieselpa]

Time is running out to send in comments on a proposed no hunting area. Click on the link or check it out in the politics forum. Contacts are on the last page.


http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?75075-This-is-something-the-Kootenay-guys-may-want-to-have-a-look-at....

[Str8shooterbc]

These are just some of the organizations that the McCroy's belong to. These people and their organizations are anti-hunting activists.

http://www.vws.org/project/wildlife/index.html

http://www.bearsmart.com/about-us/who-we-are

http://www.wildanimaltracks.com/preserving.htm

http://www.covebear.com/BlackBearKermode.htm

Wayne and Colleen McCrory are at the for front of nearly shutting bear hunting down in BC. Their endeavors have severely limited the Grizzly Bear harvest. There is only a few days left to tell your MLA, The Minister of Environment, Terry Lake, and the Minister of FLNRO, Steve Thompson, that you are opposed to shutting this area of the Valhalla on the Slocan Lake down to hunting.

These people are going to take away your right to lawfully hunt in BC.

[Str8shooterbc]

Here is the info to voice your concerns:


I further read the article in this Slocan area rag. It seems indeed that the McCrory's are involved they are infamous anti-hunting activists and have operated over many years. The "Valley Voice" mentions that those interested in supporting this closure should E-mai, fax of phone Premier Clark. It give this information how to do so. I suggest we take this advice to heart. This is my E-mail to Premier Clark:


http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/hunting/create-no-huntingno-shooting-area-mulvey-watershed-valhalla-park

Dear Premier Clark,



The above link is a proposal to “Create a No Hunting/No Shooting Area in the Mulvey Watershed in Valhalla Park” in the Slocan area of this province. (Proposal # 382) It appears that Wayne and Colleen McCrory, well known anti-hunting activists in this Province, are behind this action.



Hunting is a long standing sport in this Province that employs many people in this Province and brings a lot of funding to it through licencing and permits as well as tourism that bring a large amount of money employing many. The spinoffs include but are not limited to motel and restaurants, vehicle sales and rental, RV sales, ATV sales, clothing, pet supplies for hunting dogs, firearms and related sales, gun shows, and on and on – all which employ people and are a taxation basis for sales tax and income tax. It is a “green industry”.



What is the criterion for this measure?? Have there been incidents where Mountain Goat hunters have been involved in dangerous activities with firearms?? Are there recorded incidents??

This area has been a popular recreational hunting area for more than a century so why now is there a “need” to close it to recreational hunting?? It seems on the surface that one user group is creating an issue without any basis to have another user group denied access to utilizing this area. As this proposal is to restrict the use of firearms in this area all hunting will be banned entirely. This proposal is cleverly cloaked in a conservation management plan for Mountain Goats but it is what it is - an anti-hunting attempt by an anti-hunting group.



Consequently I am completely against this proposal at this time.


-------------------------------------------------------

These contacts were posted in the Valley Voice article

Premier Christy Clark can be reached at: premier@gov.bc.ca; fax:250-387-0087;



Box 9041 Station Prov
Govt Victoria, BC Canada V8W 9E1.



Minister of Environment Terry Lake can
be reached at:



Terry.lake.mla@leg.bc.ca;
fax: 387-1356;



Room 112 Parliament
Buildings Victoria, BC V8V 1X4.



Minister of FLNRO Steve Thomson
can be reached at:


PO Box 9049 Stn Prov
Govt, Victoria, BC V8W 9E2; phone:
250 387-6240 fax: 250-387-1040.


This is a serious issue for hunters and is only the thin edge of the wedge.

[gwillim]

Colleen McRory passed away a few years ago, so I doubt she has much to do with this lobbying effort...

[Str8shooterbc]

You're absolutely right. 2007 from brain cancer. Sorry. I have cancer myself and I guess I was ill at the time and missed it. I did find out this morning and edited my original post.

[steepNdeep]

This isn't just about the WK's - it's about hunting in BC. If they succeed in 1 park... it's a slippery slope once it starts... If you like hunting in BC, take 2 minutes & write your opposition.

[Str8shooterbc]

In the article in "Valley Voice" McCrory, one of the biggest anti-hunter eco warriors in this Province states that his intention is to shut down hunting in ALL Provincial Parks where camping and wildlife viewing take place. You can read if how you want but I can't see anywhere in any Provincial Park where you can't pitch a tent of look at the hills with binoculars in hopes of viewing wildlife. Or does wildlife viewing include squirrels and chipmonks???

He also says he does support "substance hunting, but not at the cost of wildlife viewing", recreational sport hunting is not subsistance hunting. I have read some of his reports and subsistance hunters seem to be 1st Nations people mostly. McCrory has turned up all over the Province, BTW. His sister, the late Colleen McCrory, was dubbed an Eco-warrior and that term was used in a CBC report. Wayne McCrory's wife is Lorna Visser and is also one of these radical militant activists from the Slocan area. His sister was Collen McCrory's siste

I know I have made up my mind that these people aren't out to do me and my sport ant good. I will leave it up to you to make up yours. I suggest you GOOGLE the names.

[kootsroots]

As a one time resident of the slocan I can tell that there is no shortage of bears there. But I think what it comes down to is just the fact that the slocan is a very special place with (as has been pointed out previously) quite dedicated enviromentalists. They want to protect the west side of the valley because it is a very unique place. Have you ever been in Valhalla park? It is jaw dropping and should be protected. I am all for hunting but am also for conservation of fragile areas like the slocan, the flathead, the grasslands and numerous others around the province. Without people like the Mcrorys' places like Jumbo would have been developed years ago and the white bear might not be protected like it is.

[Str8shooterbc]

The Valhalla BC Provincial Park is a difficult area to access. Aside from a few Whitetail Deer right near the Slocan Lake and some Mountain Goats in hard to get to areas there really isn’t much game in the Park. Few hunters really access and hunt it.

And that is just exactly why it was chosen to drive the wedge in all likelihood. Who would care?? Thanks to “mcrae” on this site, who posted the link to the proposal it might just have slipped through the cracks and been enshrined in the 2012-2013 BC Hunting Regulations.

I noticed the link and read it. Yesterday and today I have contacted a lot of Politicians, Ministers offices and bureaucrats in the BC Government, as well as the BCWF. This Proposal #382 is now no longer buried in obscurity. It takes all hunters to take action now and keep up the pressure so this Proposal # 382 dies on the vine.

Thank God for this site and others that taks care of hunter’s rights.

Keep up the Good Fight

[steepNdeep]

I am all for hunting but am also for conservation of fragile areas like the slocan, the flathead, the grasslands and numerous others around the province. Without people like the Mcrorys' places like Jumbo would have been developed years ago and the white bear might not be protected like it is.

Without HUNTERS like Theodore Roosevelt, there wouldn't be any parks for you to hike to in the first place. How do you think many of the goats & elk in the WK & much of the province got there??? Their populations were reintroduced by CONSERVATIONIST HUNTERS. Troll somewhere else.

[budismyhorse]

As a one time resident of the slocan I can tell that there is no shortage of bears there. But I think what it comes down to is just the fact that the slocan is a very special place with (as has been pointed out previously) quite dedicated enviromentalists. They want to protect the west side of the valley because it is a very unique place. Have you ever been in Valhalla park? It is jaw dropping and should be protected. I am all for hunting but am also for conservation of fragile areas like the slocan, the flathead, the grasslands and numerous others around the province. Without people like the Mcrorys' places like Jumbo would have been developed years ago and the white bear might not be protected like it is.

What is so fragile about it? They have logged in the flathead for longer than you've been alive.

What a dreamer.....

[Str8shooterbc]

As a one time resident of the slocan I can tell that there is no shortage of bears there. But I think what it comes down to is just the fact that the slocan is a very special place with (as has been pointed out previously) quite dedicated enviromentalists. They want to protect the west side of the valley because it is a very unique place. Have you ever been in Valhalla park? It is jaw dropping and should be protected. I am all for hunting but am also for conservation of fragile areas like the slocan, the flathead, the grasslands and numerous others around the province. Without people like the Mcrorys' places like Jumbo would have been developed years ago and the white bear might not be protected like it is.

I was born in Nelson and lived my life until nearly 30 in that area. My family were on the Slocan River from the 1920’s. I’m a lineman and have worked though from the Kootenay Canal though to the Arrow Lakes and across the Monashee. I worked for West Kootenay Power in the Slocan Valley. Does that give me credibility about knowing this area??

Yes, the McCrory’s are to be credited with leading the Good Fight to have the Valhalla turned into a park. But they are not popular with the many logging families their militant tactics made unemployed in the Slocan and across BC. Also, if it wasn’t for good sustainable logging practices we would not have anywhere near the game, both big and small, that exist today because very little flourishes in an OLD GROWTH FOREST.

Tell me, did any of those Eco-warriors care one bit about the children of loggers that suffered from long term unemployment caused by their militant tactics?? Did they care about the worries that a Dad and Mom have when they are having a hard time feeding the kids?? Or about the families uprooted from family and friends?? Did they care that Moose, Elk, Deer, Coyotes, Bear, Grouse, … just don’t exist in miles and miles of Old Growth forests??

Before you cry tears about Kootsroots, many would have liked to continue their Kootsroots but with no jobs big trees just don’t seem like a big issue. BTW logging is a sustainable industry forever if handled correctly and good populations of game go hand in hand with good forest management.

I would be really insulted if I were accused of being anything but a conservationist, certainly with my history. I know the East Kootenay and the Okanagan very well.

[Str8shooterbc]

Did anyone miss the wooden frame oil derricks there that still existed when I was a kid. There were old and abandon then. Probably 1920's era or older.


What is so fragile about it? They have logged in the flathead for longer than you've been alive.

What a dreamer.....

[mcrae]

As a one time resident of the slocan I can tell that there is no shortage of bears there. But I think what it comes down to is just the fact that the slocan is a very special place with (as has been pointed out previously) quite dedicated enviromentalists. They want to protect the west side of the valley because it is a very unique place. Have you ever been in Valhalla park? It is jaw dropping and should be protected. I am all for hunting but am also for conservation of fragile areas like the slocan, the flathead, the grasslands and numerous others around the province. Without people like the Mcrorys' places like Jumbo would have been developed years ago and the white bear might not be protected like it is.

This really has no relevance to the current proposal we are discussing. Its already a park. Hunting is already allowed with no detremnetal effect to wildlife or ecosystem etc. To suggest McCory and his eco warriors are leading the charge in proptecting a " special fragile place" is utter nonsense. This is an elitist group from one user group trying to force their personal beliefs on others. This is simply an attempt by an anti hunting group to start a process. The end result being that they will have hunting shutdown anywhere "wildlife viewing" in park occurs. If your a hunter and this proposal doesn't raise some concerns.

[kootsroots]

Not sure why I get called a troll for supporting and giving my two sense. People like the Mcrorys' are just as important as say people like Theo Roosevelt they just sit on othersides of the fence.

[budismyhorse]

Not sure why I get called a troll for supporting and giving my two sense. People like the Mcrorys' are just as important as say people like Theo Roosevelt they just sit on othersides of the fence.

Typical "god complex" that protectionists have.

Please start your last sentence with "in my opinion".

[gwillim]

I would have to totally agree with kootroots on this one. Without pressure from people like the McRorys, Western Canada Wilderness, Stein Alliance etc..., there would be no improvement in forestry land management in this province. Valhalla park is a remarkable place that the locals are justifiably proud of protecting. I don't see whats so elitist about wanting a few islands of raw wilderness in a sea of clearcuts.

The local forest industry is suffering due to a lack of business acumen, and an unsustainable level of cut. Many of the best growing sites in TFL 3 have been allowed to degrade into non-commercial brush fields (in my opinion).

[steepNdeep]

Not sure why I get called a troll for supporting and giving my two sense. People like the Mcrorys' are just as important as say people like Theo Roosevelt they just sit on othersides of the fence.

You have contributed nothing to this site & this is one of your first posts. This is a hunting site and you are 'supporting' a hunting CLOSURE.


I would have to totally agree with kootroots on this one. Without pressure from people like the McRorys, Western Canada Wilderness, Stein Alliance etc.

What is sadly ironic is that the true West Kootenay mountain goat conservationists are the people proposed to be banned from using this area. Hunters are the very people that seem to care the most about wild goat populations in the West Kootenay and are the people that worked to re-introduce goats populations there.

Hunters are some of the greatest conservationists in the world. If not for HUNTERS like Theodore Roosevelt, people in North America would not have Parks to hike to in the first place. I’ve never heard of the Valhalla Wilderness Society ever transplanting a goat & hikers are the ones feeding goats which is detrimental to the population.

It is already protected as a Park. Historically, both uses have co-existed without much conflict until this incident. However, there are several reports of hikers feeding the goats, which is detrimental to the goats & dangerous. A hiker recently gored & killed by a mountain goat in Washington & the Park department is being sued by the widow: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/127093963.html The goat rut (during hunting season) is the most likely time that someone would be harmed by a goat. The fall is a lower-use season for hikers & they would have use of the area for the other 9 months of the year. If there is truly a safety concern for hikers during hunting season, then I believe that the best solution would be to close the park to hikers (not hunters) during hunting season. lol

[gwillim]

I've yet to hear of a verified instance of a hiker feeding a goat in Valhalla park. What would they feed them, power bars?

At the same time there are endless threads on this site about feeding animals for still hunting, and trail cameras. If feeding animals is so bad we should let the folks on this site know about it, and get them to stop!!

The other point that has me shaking my head while reading this thread is that the area below Gimli, where the goats tend to hang out, is not even in the park, and would not be included in the proposed hunting ban. The basin below Gimli is within TFL 3. I would be interested to know if anyone on this site has ever hunted within Mulvey basin. In order to get into the basin safely, one has to descend a pretty steep ice-field, which requires crampons, and/or an ice axe. That, or come up from the Slocan valley, which would be a multi-day endeavor. I can't imagine dragging a goat out of the basin, unless you chopped it into very small pieces.

[Str8shooterbc]

gwillim, can you confirm something I have just learned?

The "campsite" where this animal was allegedly harvested, was it an official BC Parks campsite or is it, as I heard, a campsite that was made by the "rock climbers" over a period of time. If the rock climbers made the campsite then it would be an illegal alteration of a Public BC Provincial Park. If that were so it would be the rock climbers who illegally habituated goats, and other animals in the area, to humanization.

I have it on very good authority that this "campsite" is just exactly that, an alteration of that BC Provincial Park, but I want you to answer it for all of us here.

Thanks

[mcrae]

I've yet to hear of a verified instance of a hiker feeding a goat in Valhalla park. What would they feed them, power bars?

At the same time there are endless threads on this site about feeding animals for still hunting, and trail cameras. If feeding animals is so bad we should let the folks on this site know about it, and get them to stop!!

The other point that has me shaking my head while reading this thread is that the area below Gimli, where the goats tend to hang out, is not even in the park, and would not be included in the proposed hunting ban. The basin below Gimli is within TFL 3. I would be interested to know if anyone on this site has ever hunted within Mulvey basin. In order to get into the basin safely, one has to descend a pretty steep ice-field, which requires crampons, and/or an ice axe. That, or come up from the Slocan valley, which would be a multi-day endeavor. I can't imagine dragging a goat out of the basin, unless you chopped it into very small pieces.

So why do we need to worry about having a closure in the area then? If hunters and climbers will not be in the same area sort of defeats the purpose of this closure? If the area is so inaccessible sort of seems strange they are worried about goat hunters??? Unless of course this is all just about keeping hunters out and nothing at all to do with conservation of goats or safety of climbers...

Your just not getting the point??? If we let McCory and people like him dictate to us as a user group what is acceptable use within an area we give them and others like them precedent to do this in other areas that are more accessible.

[mcrae]

I've yet to hear of a verified instance of a hiker feeding a goat in Valhalla park. What would they feed them, power bars?

It was a Clif bar in the events I was told. The goat picked it up mouthed on it and spit it out. Couldn't chew it either... It was a funny story thats why I remember it. I don't think anybody is hauling feed in on there backs and feeding the goats. The point I was making was that the habituation of the goats is being caused by close contact with climbers and hikers. The habituation issue they keep throwing around in the proposal is being caused by user groups other than hunter. So using their rationalization for this proposal we should be closing the area to all user groups not just hunters. If the habituation is proving to be detrimental to the goats seems the appropriate course of event to me.

[mcrae]

I don't see whats so elitist about wanting a few islands of raw wilderness in a sea of clearcuts.

It becomes elitist when its use is for one user group at the exclusion of others....

http://www.summitpost.org/valhalla-range-british-columbia/538347 I really like the friendly goat picture.

[gwillim]

I would agree that the original proposal is a bit hair-brained for the reasons I outlined in the earlier post (lack of realistic access for hunting). The area where there is a potential for conflict lies in TFL 3, where the hiking trail leads from the logging road to the the base of Mt Gimli. As usual, the problems of multi use in a popular area could be solved by some basic courtesy on both sides. To me there is a minimal safety issue due to the use of firearms, but a much bigger one from people leaving gut-piles adjacent to campsites, or alongside established hiking trails. A number of serious grizzly incidents have been caused by people stumbling on a bear with a carcass, or gut pile.

The habituation thing always puzzled me. Some areas with much higher traffic than Gimli still have goat populations that are very spooky of people. Then there's Cathedral park, where the goats walk around like cows, oblivious to people walking by. Not sure why the difference.

[kootsroots]

yeah ok I guess I am sorry for being new to the forum. lol. I am just trying to say that there are lots of areas that you can hunt so why are we getting so uppity over a closure in a very fragile, unique and difficult to access area. sorry for being a troll. I guess its a bad idea to sign up for a forum and start contributing. Sorry again.

[mcrae]

yeah ok I guess I am sorry for being new to the forum. lol. I am just trying to say that there are lots of areas that you can hunt so why are we getting so uppity over a closure in a very fragile, unique and difficult to access area. sorry for being a troll. I guess its a bad idea to sign up for a forum and start contributing. Sorry again.

Why do you use the term fragile? There are lots of areas they can rock climb why get so uppity over a goat hunter? Allot of area's are unique and difficult to access should we close them to hunting as well? Personally I don't think your a troll you have an opinion it just doesn't agree with mine I don't take it personally you shouldn't either.

[Str8shooterbc]

Not at all, I signed up on Saturday. There is some difference though, I try to say something with some solid knowledge and if I'm proven wrong will back off. This is an emotional issue. People who don't hunt or shoot are inherently afraid of firearms, the noise just makes them go mad. TV have not helped.

My kids used to watch the A-Team and rave about all that was happening with the "guns". I took them to that range with an AR-15 and a 9mm pistol. My daughter was 4 or 5 my son nearly 10. I loaded a clip in the AR-15 and fired all 20 round ( it was a long time ago - OK). They were very impressed because it seemed to make the earth shake. It was the concussion of the air waves. Then I let them shoot the 9mm pistil, which has almost no recoil. The A-Team held a different meaning for them after that, they were never as excited about the "shoot scenes" afterwards.

You know, if any of you people that have no idea about firearms want to find out all you have to do is ask us shooters and most will be more than willing to take you out for a day of shooting. We are a bunch of very savvy safety conscious people who enjoy showing others out sport. Many are authorities on certain types of firearms and firearms history. Many belong to Rod & Gun Clubs that were the forefront of Conservation in this Province. I suggest you consider the CORE program put on by the BC Wildlife Federation. It is what everyone has to have in order to qualify for a hunting license in BC. http://www.bcwf.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87&Itemid=187

This is an in depth that teaches firearms safety to some degree but really teaches the student about BC flora and fauna and give a good idea how to appreciate and protect it for future generations. It is true that hunters are conservationists. Unlike the McCrory's of the world hunter groups offer solutions to problems and work with other user groups so we can all enjoy of Beautiful Province.

So ask a hunter to introduce you to his/her world. The biggest problem you will have is to get them to shut up about the way they enjoy this land.

Ken Olychick


yeah ok I guess I am sorry for being new to the forum. lol. I am just trying to say that there are lots of areas that you can hunt so why are we getting so uppity over a closure in a very fragile, unique and difficult to access area. sorry for being a troll. I guess its a bad idea to sign up for a forum and start contributing. Sorry again.

[Str8shooterbc]

Oh yea, I didn't come on BCH because I hate the idea that forums are anonymous and people hide behind that to say things they wouldn't ever say in public. Notice I'm not anonymous??

Ken

[mrdieselpa]

The biggest problem is that everyone seems to forget the first thing they are supposed to learn in kindergarden - SHARING

So if the hunters are detrimental to the area then the rock climbers and hikers must be too so close it for everyone and pull out the trails. That is fairer than simply excluding hunters. Going by the logic of the proposal of closing viewing sites then 95 percent of the east/west kootenays will be no hunting. This is the letter my partners and I sent.

Dear Minister Lake,

We are writing you this letter in regards to a proposal by the Valhalla Wilderness Society for a no hunting area in the Gimlie Peak/Mulvey Creek area of Valhalla Park in the West Kootenays. We are vehemently opposed to the creation of a no hunting/no shooting area. There is no reason that this area cannot be shared by all people who use this park. As hunters our "window" of opportunity to use this area is already limited not only by the amount of snow but the open hunting dates as well. Little by little hunters are being restricted from more and more areas in the west/east kootenays. This application for a no hunting area has absolutely nothing to do with the safety of other user groups, rather it is simply a pretext for a closure by a group which is opposed to hunting. We the undersigned would like to offer a more reasonable alternative to a no hunting area. Signage informing users of the area that hunting is permitted and the dates when it is permitted. Please help keep opportunities for animal harvest, especially for mule deer and goats in this park open for present and future generations.

[budismyhorse]

yeah ok I guess I am sorry for being new to the forum. lol. I am just trying to say that there are lots of areas that you can hunt so why are we getting so uppity over a closure in a very fragile, unique and difficult to access area. sorry for being a troll. I guess its a bad idea to sign up for a forum and start contributing. Sorry again.

Besides sarcasm and another dramatic post ...... Could you please answer the question that has been asked of you TWICE now?

Why is this place so fragile? Its absurd that hunting cannot occur in a "difficult to access place"......

[mrdieselpa]

Time is running out, send your e-mails to:

steve.thomson.mla@leg.bc.ca ( Minister of Natural Resource Operations)

terry.lake.mla@leg.bc.ca (Minister of Environment)

[kootsroots]

Valhalla Park is home to some types of moss and vegetation that is not found in any other areas in the province. I am really just going off what was told to me by Ranger Bob who was our neighbor and the Valhalla park Ranger for many years. There are some people in the Park society that dont want humans in the park at all. I do think that is a little over the top However with the coming shift in global population which will lead to the development of a lot of the undeveloped land in this country it is probably a wise Idea to preserve as many tracts of land as we can. There are still lots of opportunities to hunt around that region. I am backing out of this now. I was just trying to express the idea that closing some areas of land is not that bad of an idea. Although I would definatly support the use of LEH's in the area because after all we do have to control the wildlife numbers.

[gwillim]

yeah ok I guess I am sorry for being new to the forum. lol. I am just trying to say that there are lots of areas that you can hunt so why are we getting so uppity over a closure in a very fragile, unique and difficult to access area. sorry for being a troll. I guess its a bad idea to sign up for a forum and start contributing. Sorry again.

Don't be sorry..this would be a pretty lame site if everyone agreed with everyone else. Everyone else on this site "signed up and started contributing", no reason you shouldn't.

I think it's hard for folks who haven't been there to get how incredible Mulvey basin is. Maybe not a reason to restrict hunting, but I think this is why folks have some passionate ideas about what happens there.

[Str8shooterbc]

Out of curiosity gwillim, are you one of those that built that campsite right up near the Mountain Goats?

[gwillim]

Out of curiosity gwillim, are you one of those that built that campsite right up near the Mountain Goats?

Whoever said, "there are no stupid questions" was wrong...

[Str8shooterbc]

Well there is a campsite up near the goat area and it was built by the "rockclimbers" that is a dead certainty. It was the "campsite" mentioned in the Valley Voice that everyone mentioned in it is so upset about. That goat was not harvested in any "official B C Prov Park" campsite, but then you already know that, don't you?

Funny what a little research turns up, right? So this comment about stupid questions?? It was you involved, Eh?

You do understand that altering a BC Provincial Park is an unlawful act, right? Another stupid question??

[Everett]

Valhalla Park is home to some types of moss and vegetation that is not found in any other areas in the province. I am really just going off what was told to me by Ranger Bob who was our neighbor and the Valhalla park Ranger for many years. There are some people in the Park society that dont want humans in the park at all. I do think that is a little over the top However with the coming shift in global population which will lead to the development of a lot of the undeveloped land in this country it is probably a wise Idea to preserve as many tracts of land as we can. There are still lots of opportunities to hunt around that region. I am backing out of this now. I was just trying to express the idea that closing some areas of land is not that bad of an idea. Although I would definatly support the use of LEH's in the area because after all we do have to control the wildlife numbers.

This area is already under LEH the area you refer to that is not in the Park and they only give out 3 tags per year. Valhalla gets around 40 tags the kill every year I bet isn't more than 5.

[gwillim]

[QUOTE=

You do understand that altering a BC Provincial Park is an unlawful act, right? Another stupid question??[/QUOTE]

Even stupider, if thats possible.

[gwillim]

Ooops, that was a little harsh. Dear Sub-str8 please accept my apologies...a suggestion though, you should get your ass out of Burnaby and go walk/climb around the Valhallas for a while. It might calm you down, and you may start to know what you're talking about.

I'll be over in the "what Glock to get my Grandmother" thread, if anyone needs me...

[Str8shooterbc]

The campsite exists. I simply asked if you were one of those who built and maintains it? Also I understand the trail leading to the campsite is also "enhanced". This is no longer "a wilderness experience" in that portion of the Valhalla BC Provincial Park because of this unauthorized alteration of a Provincial Park and this isn't because of the very few hunters that go into that area. The Proposal #382 specifically states, "Mountain goats in this area have become habituated to human presence and provide for significant viewing opportunities." There is only one way for that to happen, the rockclimbers that frequent the area have been trying to get as close as they can to these animals through frequent and persistent familiarization with the creatures. That too is a violation of the Parks Act.

As I stated before this area isn't a petting zoo for elitists.


I'll be over in the "what Glock to get my Grandmother" thread, if anyone needs me...

I just don't seem to be able to find that thread. That wouldn't be a thinly veiled threat, would it?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Valhalla Park is home to some types of moss and vegetation that is not found in any other areas in the province. I am really just going off what was told to me by Ranger Bob who was our neighbor and the Valhalla park Ranger for many years. There are some people in the Park society that dont want humans in the park at all. I do think that is a little over the top However with the coming shift in global population which will lead to the development of a lot of the undeveloped land in this country it is probably a wise Idea to preserve as many tracts of land as we can. There are still lots of opportunities to hunt around that region. I am backing out of this now. I was just trying to express the idea that closing some areas of land is not that bad of an idea. Although I would definatly support the use of LEH's in the area because after all we do have to control the wildlife numbers.


That's straight from the "anti-handbook"...."unique sub-sub speccies found no where else on earth":roll:. They tried the exact same thing in the Incommepleux valley....but at least there they were trying to get the logging stopped. No logging going on in Vallhalla.

Hunting is extremely low impact on the environment.

SSS

[mrdieselpa]

Maybe someone can enlighten me as to how hunting affects special moss and vegetation in that area? - As compared to rock climbing and wildlife viewing? As far as I can remember every hunt i've ever been on has involved both rock climbing and wildlife viewing.

[budismyhorse]

It's an absolute outrage this is happening fellas. .... There is absolutely no way they can justify it with a straight face.

Stand up, be counted and common sense "should" prevail. This kind of non-science elitism is a all over the place. Same story same crap. I wish they would just be honest and tell us the real reasons behind these proposals.

They simply hate hunting and the idea of it. It begins and ends right there. This incident with the hunter shooting the goat in front of some climbers is just the ammunition they need to make an attempt at shutting it down. Us hunters have got to realize what this type of thing does. They ARE watching and in some cases waiting for us to slip up.

[cruiser]

Added my comments. I have never hunted there, but that is a precendent I certainly do not want set. We stand to lose a lot of access if this notion of closed areas by 'safety' concern spreads.

[rockrabbitt]

Letter to the editor in the Castlegar News
Goats in a park, like fish in a barrel

Published: December 08, 2011 10:00 AM
Updated: December 08, 2011 10:41 AM

This story has come to light just recently.


In mid-September a goat was shot by hunters in the campground on the trail to Mt. Gimli. The altitude here is about 2,400 metres (7,900 feet).


Here, mountain goats have become accustomed to climbers and hikers. They will approach to within 10 feet and seem very curious. This makes for outstanding photo opportunities.


This area is well known for this and the spectacular scenery. A thousand people a year come here.


This outrageous incident is cause for concern for human safety, in at least four ways.


• The hunters saw the goat in the campground and ordered the people there to get out of the way. The goat was shot and disembowelled right there in front of them.


Did these people feel threatened? I think so.


• The blood and guts laying there would soon attract a large predator. Both groups in the campground would have to leave immediately. This would be a dangerous place for hikers and climbers for up to two weeks.


• I would question the safety of firing a rifle while standing at the base of a 1,200 foot high rock wall. The concussion could loosen rocks and would surely be frightening for hikers and climbers present.


• Most hunters would consider hunting here to be totally un-ethical, as it’s kind of like a petting zoo.


We must prevent this from happening again.


Please demand that our government close this area to hunting – from the trail head up.





-Wayne Reidl,

[budismyhorse]

Brutal............Sounds to me that climbing should be banned as animals being habituated to humans is an unfortunate situation. We don't want another innocent person being gored like that poor fella in the states recently.

[Str8shooterbc]

Perfect, " …as it’s kind of like a petting zoo" for elitists.

Keep in mind this is a BC Provincial Park. Purposely habituating any wild animals in any part of BC is unethical. They are wild animals and must remain so. To do this in a Provincial Park is worse than unethical it is reprehensible and a dereliction of duty for any BC Provincial Parks staff employed in the Valhalla BC Provincial Park who encouraged it. Perhaps Minister Steven Thompson needs to be informed that employees of BC Provincial Parks have been involved in the habituation of wild animals by humans. This has been going on for what appears to be a long time. Some reprimands of BC Provincial Parks employees need to be considered.

I have only become aware of Proposal #382 less than a week ago and the more I learn about the underlying sleazy reasoning for this proposal trying to sneak it is disgusting, but then that is exactly how these Eco-terrorists work. I’m reminded of “tree spiking” and other methods that these eco-terrorists have used in the past.

The unauthorized alteration of a BC Provincial Park in the “campsite” up near the Mountain Goats and the trail leading to it, apparently supported by the “BC Parks supervisor responsible for the Arrow area”, must be reviewed by the Minister as well. Bureaucrats messing with the Public Process to suit his/her own opinion is circumventing the system. If this did happen as suggested then perhaps this person would be better suited to working somewhere else.

I’m so very glad that rockrabbitt posted Mr. Wayne Reidl’s Letter to the Editor in the 8 December, 2011 publication of the Castlegar News. It is a classic example of someone commenting on a subject with absolutely no knowledge of the subject what so ever. I do hope Mr. Reidl has written to Minister Thomson because he would be a good example of what emotion driven nonsense Proposal #382 is; an uninformed kneejerk reaction to something that is perpetuated by militant eco-activists willing to do anything to force their will on everyone else.

[Str8shooterbc]

BTW, gwillim still hasn't answered if he/she were involved in the anauthorized alteration of Valhalla BC Provincial Park by making and maintaining a "campsite and trail" up to the area that Proposal #382 addresses.

[mcrae]

This was printed in the Nelson Star today.

http://www.nelsonstar.com/opinion/letters/135119873.html

I am not sure why they print letters like this that are obviously written by someone that doesn't know what they are talking about....

If the hunter didn't take the meat and just hacked off the head and took the hide wouldn't he have been charged? I love these types of comments...

[Str8shooterbc]

Editor Nelson Star,

Mr. Sinkie wrote a Letter to the Editor on 6 December 2011. There has been a lot of confusion that goes along with the issue of a Mountain Goat being harvested in September in Valhalla BC Provincial Park and it is my opinion this confusion has been purposely initiated by the Valley Voice, a group of rock climbers that frequent the area and a member of a family infamous for eco-terrorism from New Denver at a time when a lot of trees were spiked.

The “campsite” in question is an unauthorised alteration of a BC Provincial Park built by an elitist user group of rock climbers so they can “habituate to human contact” the wild Mountain Goat of the area of this BC Provincial Park for their own selfish purposes of “getting closer and closer to nature” at the peril of the animals. In essence they are taming these wild Mountain Goats with their frequent and persistent familiarity to get closer to them making this their very own “elitist petting zoo”.

Proposal #382 was pushed through with no normal participation required to have public consultation taking those who are participating in a proper manner by surprise and is cloaked in a public safety concern, a Mountain Goat Management Plan, The Parks Act, the Firearms Act, and because “Mountain goats in this area have become habituated to human presence and provide for significant viewing opportunities.”

I only became aware of this Proposal on 9 December only because of some obscure comment made in a FORUM mentioning Nelson, where I was born and raised. When the name McCrory was mentioned all alarm bells went off. What I have learned in the last five days has sickened and disgusted me. Will these eco-terrorists never tire of exaggerating and making up issues to get their will enforced on all the rest of us??

Apparently not.

Very little of what was reported in 16 November article of that “newspaper” is close to being factual. The hunter in question complied with all laws and there is absolutely no evidence that Mr. Sinkie’s claim that, “the head and hide were taken to hang on the hunter’s wall.” Even if that were the case, it would still be legal and prudent because all parts of the animal would have been used. This area is subject to Limited Entry Hunting (LEH) and so the number of Mountain Goats harvested is very strictly controlled.


Ken Olychick, now of Burnaby but soon back to the Interior.

[Str8shooterbc]

This is the body of the letter to the Editor I wrote for the Nelson Star. I'm not sure if it will ever see the light of day but can those from Nelson let me know if it does?

[mcrae]

I will keep an eye out for it but I wouldn't expect much they usually like to put one side of the story in this paper as well...

[Str8shooterbc]

Disjointed emotional drivel is always preferable to hard facts.

[gwillim]

It is a classic example of someone commenting on a subject with absolutely no knowledge of the subject what so ever.

Dear esteemed colleague sub-str8, there are a few details that you may have missed in your "exhaustive research"...the trail in question was not built by "eco-terrorists", but rather by a contractor, under the direction of the Ministry of Forest recreation officer (back when we could afford such things). Despite your repeated assertions that this is in a provincial park, the trail is entirely outside of the park. It is in TFL 3. Please get someone else to explain the difference between a park and a TFL. Once you get out of the TFL and into the park, the trail becomes a route (note the difference), through some knarly ice and talus.

Also, what we in the Kootenays call a "campsite" may not be the same thing that you might call a campsite down there in Burp-quitlam. There is no gravel pad, no fire ring, not even a playground. Really, we don't so much build campsites here as locate them. I believe the "campsite" in question is a small flat piece of dirt big enough for a tent or two. It is a popular campsite only because it is the only level piece of dirt for some distance. Get your mom to show how to use perspective view in Google Earth, and you will see what I mean.

I would repeat my suggestion that you get yourself out of the hub-bub of the city, and actually visit our beautiful part of the province. You might even meet some real "eco-terrorists and realize that "they're people too". Some of them are actually very cute.

So have a really great day, and a very merry Christmas. Please don't forget to take your meds...

Yours in hunting sport,

Gwil

[CanuckShooter]

BTW, gwillim still hasn't answered if he/she were involved in the anauthorized alteration of Valhalla BC Provincial Park by making and maintaining a "campsite and trail" up to the area that Proposal #382 addresses.

He has now. And quite well too I might add. ;-)

[Str8shooterbc]

Thank you for clearing this up for me and all the others on this site. I was told by one who works for the BC Parks Service that maintain the "campsite & tail". Perhaps you know more than they. Aside from the fact that that area is likely very much inaccessible at this time of the year making it totally inaccessible, but of course you knew that didn't you, I couldn't possibly access the area any more because I would have a hard time accessing the Slocan River bank right now let alone a rugged are like this because I have cancer and my ability is a bit compromised at this time due to treatment, but then you could not have know that could you unless you were to Google my name and accessed my website.

I know the area fairly well, admittedly more than 30 years ago when I was young and spry. I am a lineman and worked the power lines that traverse parallel to the area we are speaking of. I was all through that and the Monashee on foot, by 4x4, in helicopter and tracked machine.

Thanks for your concern. I am very vigilant to take my meds because I wouldn't survive long if I didn't.

Are you always this pleasant??

[Str8shooterbc]

He has now. And quite well too I might add. ;-)

Well sorry CanuckShooter, I was listening to employees of the BC Parks Service. I think I'll rely on their information about the campsite and trail from them because they just might know a bit more, if that's OK with you. Is there a reason gwillim tells a differing story than the BC Parks employees??

Right near you, on Eagle Lake back in the early 80's I worked for Hydro and were going through the area. The temp had been about 3 or 4 degrees C but was dropping fast. It was clear blue skies, no clouds what so ever. In several hours the temperature was -20. Over the couple hours it snowed about 3" of feather like snow. I guess it froze all the moisture out of the air. I is a fond memory as I had never experienced it again, but then in two years I was in a hot desert and never returned to the "north". Just a fond memory.

BTW have you ever been in the Valhalla/Slocan area??

[CanuckShooter]

Well sorry CanuckShooter, I was listening to employees of the BC Parks Service. I think I'll rely on their information about the campsite and trail from them because they just might know a bit more, if that's OK with you. Is there a reason gwillim tells a differing story than the BC Parks employees??

Right near you, on Eagle Lake back in the early 80's I worked for Hydro and were going through the area. The temp had been about 3 or 4 degrees C but was dropping fast. It was clear blue skies, no clouds what so ever. In several hours the temperature was -20. Over the couple hours it snowed about 3" of feather like snow. I guess it froze all the moisture out of the air. I is a fond memory as I had never experienced it again, but then in two years I was in a hot desert and never returned to the "north". Just a fond memory.

BTW have you ever been in the Valhalla/Slocan area??

I've been all over the place. He is probably telling a different story because he spends some time in there tramping on delicate flora and building fire rings??

[Str8shooterbc]

I've been all over the place. He is probably telling a different story because he spends some time in there tramping on delicate flora and building fire rings??

Cool response, CanuckShooter. You're a mean and cruel man, .............. but I like you anyway.

[16ga]

This is the body of the letter to the Editor I wrote for the Nelson Star. I'm not sure if it will ever see the light of day but can those from Nelson let me know if it does?
Your letter in the Star

http://www.nelsonstar.com/

[Str8shooterbc]

Where???

Scan and E-mail it to me if you can't post.

[Str8shooterbc]

Got it.

http://www.nelsonstar.com/opinion/letters/135548413.html

Huge Kudos to the Nelson Star for fair and balanced publishing.

[Str8shooterbc]

I spoke with the Editor of the Nelson Star and apparently he had a phone an F U phone call for publishing my letter.

[budismyhorse]

Figured that would rattle a few cages;)

[steepNdeep]

Valhalla park...It is jaw dropping and should be protected. I am also for conservation of fragile areas like the slocan, the flathead, the grasslands and numerous others around the province. Without people like the Mcrorys' places like Jumbo would have been developed years ago and the white bear might not be protected like it is.


I would have to totally agree with kootroots on this one. Without pressure from people like the McRorys, Western Canada Wilderness, Stein Alliance etc...

This is ABOUT them taking away hunting rights. That's what teh McRory's do. The area is ALREADY protected as a Provincial Park. Are you two saying that you support the hunting closure in the park???

[mrdieselpa]

Got a couple of replies to my letters - this one gave me an omenous feeling

Thank you for your email of December 1, 2011, addressed to the Honourable Terry Lake, Minister of Environment, regarding the proposed hunting closure in the Gimli\Mulvey area within Valhalla Provincial Park. Minister Lake has asked me to respond on his behalf.

Your comments have been forwarded to Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations (FLNR) for consideration. The hunting closure proposal was posted to the public Hunting and Trapping Engagement website for public comment and closed on December 9, 2011. The Fish and Wildlife Branch in FLNR is now considering all the comments received regarding this proposal and will be making a decision in the spring of 2012.

Hunting is an allowable activity in Valhalla Provincial Park subject to public safety and wildlife conservation considerations and is managed through Provincial policy and park-specific management plans. The purpose of the current regulations proposal is to enhance public safety around the Gimli\Mulvey campsite and adjacent climbing areas, and to improve the management of the mountain goats present on that site. There is no intention to restrict hunting activity in any other area of the park.

For further information regarding BC Parks, please visit the website at http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/.

For further information regarding hunting in British Columbia, please visit the Fish and Wildlife website at http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/.

Sincerely,


Tom Bell
Regional Manager
BC Parks

[Str8shooterbc]

Noted. I'm going to be turning this over to the BCWF for consideration. It seem there are a lot of "public employees" involved in trying to close this portion of the BC Provincial Park. The Park Supervisor is on record as saying that it is his opinion this area of Valhalla BC Provincial Park does not constitute his opinion of "fair chase" for hunting to continue because these animals have become habituated to human contact. He went on to admit he assigned Park employees to maintain the trail and "campsite" near the goats. He is aware the goats have become habituated because of the prolific use of the area by rock climbers.

If we loose this portion of this park to a very small and potentially militant group of eco-terrorists they will not stop there. We need to keep up the pressure on Ministers Lake and Thompson.

mrdieselpa, can you E-mail me a copy of the letter or I'll provide you with my address in a PM.

[Str8shooterbc]

I would like to see Mr. Bell's signature. What Region is he Manager of??

I want the letter to give to the Minister.

[Str8shooterbc]

I have E-Mailed the two Ministers involved, Lake and Thomson, as well as copying my MLA Richard Lee, Burnaby North and the BCWF about the above letter by Tom Bell, Regional Manager, BC Parks. I have heard from two public servants, Chris Price, BC Parks supervisor responsible for the Arrow area and one that works for fish and wildlife, both expressing their opinion that hunting this area does not constitute "fair chase" for hunting Mountain Goats in this area of Valhalla BC Provincial Park because the animals have been habituated to human presence.

I'm sick and tired of public servants interfering in this supposedly public process to change the Hunting regulations for 2012-13. If this proposal #382 - Create a No Hunting/No Shooting Area in the Mulvey Watershed in Valhalla Park - is passed our rights as a user group of BC Provincial Parks will be eroded irreparably. This is only the tip of the iceberg as the intention of this group of eco-terrorists, and that is exactly what these people are, is to close every BC Provincial Park to hunting bit by bit in any place that a person camps and/or watches wildlife. That is what Wayne McCrory was quoted to say in the article in 16 November Valley Voice. In case you don’t know the name McCrory, his late sister Colleen was instrumental in closing down a lot of industry in BC putting a lot of families out of work. Google her name to see what these people are capable of doing.

This "campsite" in the Mulvey Watershed is not an authorised BC Parks campsite. It was built illegally and is being maintained by BC Parks employees under Mr. Price’s supervision, a misdirection of BC Taxpayer’s money. Mr. Price, by the way, is the individual that put Proposal #382 forward.

I suggest that any person who wants to keep their lawful right to hunt in BC had better pay attention to this Proposal to close this small portion of a BC Provincial Park to hunting it is the first nail to be driven by these eco-terrorists. They are intent to stop hunting in BC.

Phone and E-mail or write your MLA. E-mail the two Ministers involved, Lake and Thomson. Because if you don’t your kids might not be able to enjoy the wilds of BC unless they join the rock climbers that are using BC as their own elitist petting zoo at your expense. After all, it is your tax dollars that are supporting BC Provincial Parks and those public servants are misappropriating those funds to bar you from enjoying public parks. It’s just that simple.

Ken Olychick

http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/hunting/create-no-huntingno-shooting-area-mulvey-watershed-valhalla-park

http://www.valleyvoice.ca/contenteditor_files/ValleyVoice111116web%281%29.pdf see page 2

[Str8shooterbc]

Thank you for writing to Minister Thomson regarding your concerns regarding hunting in BC Provincial parks. You have reached him at his constituency office and he has asked that I forward your email to his minister's account for staff review, consideration and tracking. Please feel free to forward any further correspondence regarding this issue to him at FLNR.Minister@gov.bc.ca (http://webmail.opentransfer.com/horde/imp/message.php?index=883#). Thank you again for your letter.

Constituency Assistant to
Steve Thomson, MLA
Kelowna Mission
Tel: 250.712.3620
Fax: 250.712.3626

[Str8shooterbc]

Thank you for your email to Terry Lake, MLA for Kamloops-North Thompson. As your correspondence relates to his role as Minister of Environment, we have taken the opportunity to forward your email to his ministerial account, which is Env.Minister@gov.bc.ca (http://webmail.opentransfer.com/horde/imp/message.php?index=884#).

Regards

Constituency Assistant

Terry Lake, MLA Kamloops - North Thompson
Minister of Environment
Email: kirsty.morris@leg.bc.ca (http://webmail.opentransfer.com/horde/imp/message.php?index=884#)
Phone #: 250-554-5413 Fax #: 250-554-5417
Toll Free #: 1-888-299-0805
Website: www.terrylakemla.bc.ca (http://www.terrylakemla.bc.ca)
 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail




I have also sent a plea to the BCWF for assistance in this matter. Public servants interfering with a public process is just plain wrong.

[Str8shooterbc]

Well it seems as if the eco-terrorists are willing to spread their usual manure around when trying to get user groups banned. You have to remember they will use any tactics to force their positions - spike trees so that a logger trying to feed his family will be injured, tie themselves to lofty perches requiring police to risk their lives to have them extracted, fake camping in the bush to try and stop a wolf harvest, etc. So when you read this letter to the editor of the Nelson Star stating few facts and those that are, are shrouded in mist. Here is Mr. Colin C. Moss’s Letter to the Editor 19 December, 2011.

Shooting of goats is unjustifiable

Re: “On the hunt for proper facts,” December 14

I did a brief search on the Internet for Ken Olychick and came up with this website. You may be interested in checking it out, especially his article on the Valhalla controversy: shotgunsbc.ca/2011/12/allert-valhalla-is-being-closed-to-hunting

Obviously he’s a dyed-in-the-wool gun enthusiast who definitely represents the pro-hunter faction in this province.

I am one of the hikers who frequent the Gimli/Mulvey watershed area and although I wouldn’t consider myself to be a “Valhalla extremist” I definitely side with those who are against the shooting of these habituated goats.

In my opinion, anyone who would shoot one of these “tame” goats is an absolute Neanderthal, coward and to be polite — totally unreasonable and unwilling to entertain any other point of view other than his own.

Colin C. Moss
New Denver
http://www.nelsonstar.com/opinion/letters/135895998.html

His is answer to my letter to the editor of the same newspaper, The Nelson Star, “On the hunt for proper facts”. http://www.nelsonstar.com/opinion/letters/135548413.html

Mr. Moss is a Director of Slocan District Chamber of Commerce and so one would have to draw the conclusion that he is articulate and knows how to be precise, yet except that I do indeed have a BLOG that is designed to dispel the myths about firearms that people like Mr. Moss wallows in, Mr. Moss presents absolutely NO FACTS. For instance he says that I am a dyed-in-the-wool gun enthusiast and then in the same sentence I “…represents the pro-hunter faction of this province[sic]”. His leap to a conclusion. I really represent no one but myself and I’m a hunter and don’t consider myself “a gun enthusiast”.

One thing Mr. Moss did get right is that the Mountain Goats in the area are quite nearly “tame”. And why is that?? Because his associates, and likely he himself, have been habituation these Mountain Goats to Human Contact for their own self-centred selfish desires. In essence a petting zoo for elitists. I say elitist because anyone ill, infirm, old, poor (living outside Slocan City), etc. cannot possibly access this area let alone climb up where these agile animals exist. These elitist eco-terrorists really don’t care about anyone but those who “can do”.

Make no mistake. These people are going to strip hunters of their rights to utilize this area and if you believe the Valley Voice article 16 November 2001, and I do, it says:

“Wayne McCrory, registered professional biologist and Valhalla Wilderness Society director, said VWS is in support of a no hunting zone in areas that are very accessible to the public and
where animals are habituated to wildlife viewing. “Society supports subsistence hunting, but not at the expense of wildlife viewing,” he said. “Incidents like these will continue to cause a backlash against all types of hunting, which is sad because a lot of people depend on hunting to feed their families. We have lots of areas outside of parks in the Kootenays and in BC where hunting activities can go on without conflict with wildlife viewing. We need to make better rules and regulations so this conflict doesn’t occur.” McCrory suggests that people write to the BC Premier, the Minister of Environment and the Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations to ask for a no hunting zone in the Mt. Gimli area of Valhalla Park, and in all camping and wildlife viewing areas in provincial parks[sic].”

In the same article Chris Price, the one who initiated #382 - Create a No Hunting/No Shooting Area in the Mulvey Watershed in Valhalla Park,

“Chris Price, BC Parks supervisor responsible for the Arrow area, explained that in this particular circumstance, the hunter had all the required licences and authorizations, and complied with all legal requirements surrounding the harvest of the goat. “When this issue came to our attention, we looked at some of the elements that created the problem,” said Price. “We are looking to try and keep hunting as a valid recreational pursuit but make sure we are protecting public safety and improving the management of wildlife.” Price said the proposal for the no hunting zone will now go through government processes to determine whether or not it will be approved. Price does not know how long that might take.”

I still have to ask why a public servant, the very public servant that assigned Parks employees to maintain an unauthorized alteration of a BC Provincial Park, is the same public servant to make this proposal which in essence interferes with the public process in the changes to the 2012-13 BC Hunting Regulations. Apparently Tom Bell, Regional Parks Manager, is the pone to make the decision on this proposal. Here is where I have a large problem. Public Servants eliminating us from a Public Process.

Done deal??? Not if every one of you get on the phone or E-mail Ministers Lake and Thomson. Only we hunters can change this internal “Done Deal” into a proper public process. Contact your MLA as well by phone and E-Mail. Let him/her know how you feel because if you don’t Wayne McCrory, Colin Moss, Chris Price, Tom Bell and the eco-terrorists are going to stop hunting in every BC Provincial Park and leave you and you children and Grandchildren without the ability to Recreational Hunt.

You had also better get onto the BC Wildlife Federation and let them know exactly how you feel. They are the ones that have a huge power of suasion and you, as members, have the right to make sure they are fighting just as hard as they can to preserve your hunting rights.

Ken Olychick

[Brez]

This is the reply that I got when I e-mailed Terry Lake:This is, or will be the tip of the knife.



Reference: 161495

December 23, 2011



Dear Mr. Bressanutti:

Thank you for your email of December 7, 2011, addressed to the Honourable Terry Lake, Minister of Environment, regarding the proposed hunting closure in the Gimli\Mulvey area within Valhalla Provincial Park. Minister Lake has asked me to respond on his behalf.

Your comments have been forwarded to Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations (FLNR) for consideration. The hunting closure proposal was posted to the public Hunting and Trapping Engagement website for public comment and closed on December 9, 2011. The Fish and Wildlife Branch in FLNR is now considering all the comments received regarding this proposal and will be making a decision in the spring of 2012.

Hunting is an allowable activity in Valhalla Provincial Park subject to public safety and wildlife conservation considerations and is managed through Provincial policy and park-specific management plans. The purpose of the current regulations proposal is to enhance public safety around the Gimli\Mulvey campsite and adjacent climbing areas, and to improve the management of the mountain goats present on that site. There is no intention to restrict hunting activity in any other area of the park.

For further information regarding BC Parks, please visit the website at http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/.

For further information regarding hunting in British Columbia, please visit the Fish and Wildlife website at http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/.

Sincerely,


Tom Bell
Regional Manager
BC Parks

cc: Honourable Steve Thomson, Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations








Gentlemen, I and many of my hunting associates have recently become aware of Proposal 382 - the termination of hunting in the Mulvey watershed of the Valhalla Park in the West Kootenay.

http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/hunting/create-no-huntingno-shooting-area-mulvey-watershed-valhalla-park



I ask and urge you to stop this proposal from becoming reality. There is no rationale in it. An isolated incident does not justify the restriction of one user group in a multi-use location.

A large portion of the users of this area are hunters. I have no knowledge of any hiker or climber who has been put into any danger by a hunter in this, or any other location. On the contrary, by the very nature of the sport, climbers constantly and consistently, put themselves in danger.



The imposition of the "morality" of a few Disney-influenced individuals to achieve their Shangrila is wrong.



Please let common sense and intelligence prevail, and let this proposal die as it should.

Thank you for your time.



Al Bressanutti

[Str8shooterbc]

Thanks Al. I was told just today that BC Parks consider the unauthorized trail & encampment altering the wild nature of this portion of Valhalla BCPP is there because of safety in case one of the rock climbers hurt themselves.

Public servants misappropriating taxpayers dollars to desecrate a BC Provincial Park so a tiny user group can "tame'" wild creatures for their own self gratification of turning this arera into an elitist petting zoo thus putting the Mountain Goats at peril.

How can anyone justify what is going on in Valhalla BCPP??

[Str8shooterbc]

Field Editor with Outdoor Canada George Gruenefeld has picked up on the Valhalla BC Provincial Park question. His seems to have gotten the grasp of the problem pretty well.

http://outdoorcanada.ca/17108/blogs/wild-about-the-west/valhalla-facing-a-hunt-ban


I wonder if Mr. Colin Moss with comment on Mr. Gruenefeld persanal stake in the Valalla BCPP like he did me?

[EastKootenay]

Isn't there a risk that one of those rock climbers could fall and land on a hunter or a mtn goat...causing bodily harm?

If mtn goats have become habituated that is a bad thing for wildlife not a good thing for wildlfie viewers and the cause of the habituation needs to be addressed. People used to enjopy going to the dump to veiw bears....and that was deemed as being unacceptable.

I registered an objection to the proposed regulation change.

[Str8shooterbc]

Park Act

[RSBC 1996] CHAPTER 344




Occupancy and use of land restricted

16 Except as may be authorized by a valid and subsisting park use permit or resource use permit, a person must not do any of the following:
(a) use or occupy land in a park, conservancy or recreation area for a log storage area, mill site, road, right of way, disposal area for tailings or waste or any other industrial purpose;
(b) obtain any surface right or right to the use or occupancy of the surface of any land in a park, conservancy or recreation area;
(c) exercise in a park, conservancy or recreation area any right under the Mineral Tenure Act, the Coal Act or the Petroleum and Natural Gas Act;
(d) flood any part of a park, conservancy or recreation area, or impound, divert or distribute water in a park, conservancy or recreation area;
(e) establish or carry on any work or improvement or any commercial or industrial activity or enterprise in a park, conservancy or recreation area.

[Str8shooterbc]

BC Hunting Regulation Synopsis 2010-11

Page 14
#17. to intentionally feed or attempt to feed dangerous wildlife (cougar, coyote, wolf and bear) except when lawfully engaged in hunting or trapping where baiting is authorised.

Page 18
#35. to interfere with or obstruct a person licensed or permitted to hunt, guide or trap while that person is lawfully so engaged.

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If I remember correctly when #35 was added to the BC Hunting Regulations because the Eco-terrorist, including the ones that live in the New Denver area, were interfering with guided hunts by knocking over tents and other vandalism, disrupting the area with loud noises as well as putting tree branches and antlers on their heard to supposedly try and create an incident. The situation these Eco-terrorists created was getting explosive and so the Government had to initiate this part in the regulation to defuse the situation.

On occasion, and I clearly remember on incident in the West Kootenay Region where a woman tried to tell me I was on her land yet we were in the middle of nowhere, I have had to point out that part of the regulations. They always just turn around and leave.

Ken Olychick

[Ambush]

If the hunting ban succeeds then the next course of action is obvious to me.

Use the eco-nut's own arguements against them. First and foremost the animals must be protected. Habituating goats [and other wildlife] to humans always leads to problems for the animal. Cite the recent death of a man by a habituated mountain goat in a US hiking-only area. A man dead and then the goat killed by authourities.

CLOSE the trail AND the area to ALL users. Don't give up untill it's done.
The BCWF should send letters to all members and implore them to contact the appropriate political persons. Publish it in every newspaper in the province re: "Letters to the Editor" or the "Opininon" page. It's free.

It's time for a groundswell effort to maintain our rights as users of the resource. Create a well articulated letter to the public and then have one person in every city, town and village submit the letter to their local media.

Perhaps there is someone with some video graphic skills that could make a short clip to send to media outlets. Learn from the enemy. In this case offense is the best defense.

I don't hunt the Koots, seems like a closed community. But this is definitely every hunter's fight, because it's coming to you next.

[Devilbear]

I heard of this issue from another source and decided to ask Gatehouse to re-activate my account here on HBC, as I have had a great deal to do with The Valhallas, for over fifty years and anything to do with the region is close to my heart. I knew Wayne McCrory and Colleen fairly well and greatly respect his work as a wildlife biologist, however, I often disagree with his political positions. He is, as I am, a member of one the the original pioneer families of the Kootenays and is among the most interesting researchers on bears I have ever known or read.

Ken Olychick, is a boyhood friend of mine from the Robson-Observatory neighbourhood in Nelson, again, over fifty years ago and I am very saddened to read here that he is ill with cancer. Ken, while I do not agree with some of his comments here and in his published comments concerning this issue, is a good guy and I strongly agree with his position on hunting in The Valhallas, within or outside of the current park boundaries.

I will have more to say on this, I wrote to the editor of The Nelson Star when I first read the letter published over the signature of C.C. Moss, however, they have not published my calm and courteous letter. I will phone Bob Hall and tak with him about writing an article for the Star as I oftimes did for the old NDN concerning the Valhallas and other such issues in the Kootenays.

One comment here and it is simply that accusing anyone of spiking trees or other such illegal behaviour is self-defeating and we hunters must be seen to be "squeaky clean" in our approaches to issues of this kind. BC is not the society that it was when Ken, Wayne and I were young and we will not convince the general public of the validity of our position by making allegations that have no basis in fact and are also actionable for defamation.....something to consider, eh?

[Str8shooterbc]

Man have you given me a "Walk Down Memory Lane" rush. Fishing Cottonwood Creek where now the Salmo/Nelson Highway is, going through the "haunted house" that was the old Transit building, Central School, the South Nelson school fire. Last year I visited the farm my Grandparents cleared on the Slocan River near where it empties into the Kootenay River. I was nearly in tears as I had not seen the place I played as a child for many decades- my grandfather passed away in 1964. My Dad was born on that farm. He worked for the City of Nelson as a lineman when we lived on Observatory Street. I later worked for the City as a lineman myself.

I hung around with a crowd from the Slocan Valley, Slocan City and New Denver as a young man, barely out of my teens. Very enjoyable time. I fished, hunted and worked in the area most nearly half of my life. West Kootenay Power, the City of Nelson and powerline construction

Do you remember Rutherglen and his family?? Ted Rutherglen was the Game Warden in the area and always had something of interest. I remember the day he brought a Deer Fawn to our Grade 1 classroom and the time he had 2 huge sturgeon in the back of the F&W panel truck; one stretchered from under the driver’s seat to the tail hanging out of the back door when opened.

I worked on the BC Hydro line in 1976 and once when riding a helicopter the pilot flew over the cliffs where the Mountain Goats were. There was no easy access then.

That's why I have a problem with what is going on in the Valhalla BC Provincial Park. The rock climbers are "stealing" a part of that park by "taming" the Mountain Goats. The idea to a BC Provincial Park, as I believe, is so people, now and far into the future, can appreciate the beauty BC offers. That beauty includes wildlife, not "tame" wildlife. I want our Grandchildren’s Grandchildren to have the Wildlife experience.

Perhaps the area should be closed to hunting, I haven’t been there for years, but it seems so insidious that one incident, in which absolutely no laws were violated, sparks off such a controversy. Why now?? It’s not that Mountain Goats haven’t been harvested there before; they have for more than 80 years that I know of.

The simple fact is that the McCrory’s were instrumental in getting the Valhalla BC Provincial Park for all British Columbians is admirable. But it is also a fact that tree spiking did take place around the time Colleen McCrory was involved. Some call her “Eco-warrior” others an “Eco-terrorist”. I didn’t make it up, you know that.

Why Now?? It’s almost like the issue was manufactured for a purpose.

I would not have paid much attention to Proposal #382 to close this portion of Valhalla BCPP except for the article in the “Valley Voice” 16 November 2011. I haven’t heard the name McCrory for decades. I may have met Colleen, Wayne or Lorna Visser as I spent a lot of time in Slocan City with friends back in the early ‘70s, but I don’t recall. I do recall all the controversy swirling around the name McCrory, though.
The article said,

“Wayne McCrory, registered professional biologist and Valhalla Wilderness Society director, said VWS is in support of a no hunting zone in areas that are very accessible to the public and where animals are habituated to wildlife viewing. “Society supports subsistence hunting, but not at the expense of wildlife viewing,” he said. “Incidents like these will continue to cause a backlash against all types of hunting, which is sad because a lot of people depend on hunting to feed their families. We have lots of areas outside of parks in the Kootenays and in BC where hunting activities can go on without conflict with wildlife viewing. We need to make better rules and regulations so this conflict doesn’t occur.”

Reading this I became alarmed because McCrory seems to say all hunting in all BCPP should be closed and all hunting in all of BC should as well, except for “subsistence hunting”. I’m not a “subsistence hunter” I’m a recreational sport hunter. Where does that leave me?

I remember a time when there was no hunting allowed in BC Provincial Parks. There weren’t a lot of them but they existed and gave refuge to animals during hunting season. In those days there were a lot more hunters per capita and seasons were long with liberal bag limits. My recollection is that the then Social Credit MLA Kenneth Keirnan, Minister of the Environment, opened the BC Provincial Parks to hunting in around 1965. My Dad says the Morrissey Park area was a slaughter. He says it sounded like a small arms battle.

Why were the parks open to hunting?? Placer mining was to be opened in the East Kootenay and there was a lot of opposition to it because of the destruction to elk habitat.
WAC Bennett’s Social Credit government wanted to tap into this coal bonanza. Open ALL Elk, Cows, Calves and Bulls, and open the refuge area meant there were less Elk to worry about habitat. Myself and another kid stood on snow covered Rossland and Trail streets with petitions that no one in the government even took the time to read.

It’s a very different story today. Limited Entry Hunts (LEH) means the long term existence of wildlife is ensured by culling a certain amount of them through legal, and safe, hunting.

So why is this area to be closed to hunting NOW?? Is it because some elitist rock climbers want their very own petting zoo??

That isn’t what I believe a BC Provincial Park is for.

Ken Olychick