new thread regarding headshots

[jessbennett]

since the last thread was deleted, and a picture removed showing just how "effective" a headshot can be, lets have a discussion on just how many people would and have taken headshots on game? do we all consider it ethical? ESPECIALLY with archery gear? why would the picture have been deleted? we can use pictures of deaths in car crashes to show our kids the gory truth of how irresponsible drinking and driving is, yet we cant show a gory picture of the effects of a "masterful" headshot gone wrong????:neutral: come on....:confused:

personally in my opinion, its highly unethical, irresponsible, and shows a complete lack of respect to the game in which we are pursuing.
But of course this is just my opinion.
what you all think?

[rocksteady]

Personally, I have taken headshots under "perfect conditions" (rifle only) and I would have a hard time for you to tell me that they are unethical...All of them have been an instant one shot/one kill bang flop...

However, my criteria is as follows - no other options/resting animal/close range (less than 70 yards)/a good solid rest/I know exactly where my rifle shoots...If any of these conditions do not exist, I do not take the shot..

[mark]

I can assure you this buck never heard the shot!
Didnt run far either, bled out well, and i didnt waste a gram of meat! (cant affort to on these lil runts)

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/IMG_2997_Small_.JPG

[jeff]

if i feel i can make the shot ,i will . i havent lost or wounded any animals in my 30 years of hunting from a head shot ..all have been instant kill..whereas heart lung shots id say ive had about 90 percent kill

[lilhoss]

No problem taking head shots with a rifle.I've never shot an animal"in the face",if it's looking at me,then it goes "under the chin",if it is turned sideways or turned away it will be placed "behind the ears" for a brain shot.I have not mastered a bow,nor do I think I ever will,and especially would not take a head shot with a bow.I have taken alot of game including moose,black bear,deer,etc,all with head shots,but notably, within a 75 to 100yd or less range.If you hunt for as long as I have on this thick Island,you can learn to take them quite comfortably in thick brush when all you see sometimes is an antler,and ear,and eyes.
Some hunters will fill a moose with 3 to 4 shots,or more,wounding it,and inevitably walking up to it and shoot it in the head to kill it.Dead is dead,the sooner the better.

[Glenny]

Iv'e heard of a few injured deer running around out there. Not my favourite way to shoot. here's why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2VZSedWb8s

[pescado]

If the head shot is given to me at close range I take it. I like the Bang Flop that a head or neck shot give but I have a range limit where once it's exceeded it's time to go into the boiler room.

[sarg]

i would took a head shot if it was with in range, i can hit bulleye with my rifle(243cal) at a 100 yard so i should be able to do a head shot with in that, thats my feeling on thing. i don't thing i would do one past 100yard thou.
sarg

[boxhitch]

Head shots kill, no doubt
Like a shot to any other part of the body, the shooter is the one that has to decide if it is right to be trying , with any hardware, and everyone will have their conscience to guide them
Not some internet opinion poll

[Gateholio]

I prefer not to take them, but if you have to, then you better make it count.

[mooseless]

my rifle is dead on, i however wont take a head shot as i do not risk injuring and losing an animal. i do heart lung, or no shot.

[Schutzen]

From a number of different sources over the years I have heard way to many stories of head shot game particularly Moose that were left to suffer and die.
At least a several of those were lower jaws that were mangled.
I have even had so called hunters telling me bout the deer that were running that they tried hedshots on!
I am not fan of head shooting.

[ROEBUCK]

will not take a head shot beyond 400 yards under any circumstances
as thats just to unethical

[CanuckShooter]

Heads shots should be illegal to take, if ethics aren't enough sometimes legislation must be used.

[jessbennett]

i would took a head shot if it was with in range, i can hit bulleye with my rifle(243cal) at a 100 yard so i should be able to do a head shot with in that, thats my feeling on thing. i don't thing i would do one past 100yard thou.
sarg
that would be under a target shooting situation correct? now is that bench rested? freehand? now throw a little adrenalin into the mixture....... bullsye every shot at 100??? or an inch off here and there?

[shaydog65]

I was told a story this year about a calf moose shot in the head and dropped on the spot. The hunter approached it and it subsequently took off like a bat out of hell. The hunter continued stalking it, but it was then shot by another hunting party. He had to approach them and explain, knowing it was his loss to the other group. Sure enough it was hit, but knocked out cold rather then dead. Personally, I would never risk a head shot and I'm shooting 180gr nosler partitions.

[bushpig slayer]

I have herd of some deer taking off after the shot in the head now after seeing that video I will let it go,not worth it

[elkdom]

I personally have also killed many elk,deer, moose and bears, both blackies and Grizz with head shots, and not one of them ever took another step !,

very much different from some of the shoulder shot horrors I have witnessed where the shoulder shot turned into a busted shoulder and no more !, then assisted the hunters for hours tracking and sometimes never finding the suffering animal!
a pi$$ poor shot is just that ! no matter if it is a head shot or a shoulder or lung shot!

anyone capable of hitting a deer with a humane kill lung shot at 100 yards,
is also capable of a humane kill head shot on a moose at 100 yards,,

[mark]

I personally have also killed many elk,deer, moose and bears, both blackies and Grizz with head shots, and not one of them ever took another step !,

very much different from some of the shoulder shot horrors I have witnessed where the shoulder shot turned into a busted shoulder and no more !, then assisted the hunters for hours tracking and sometimes never finding the suffering animal!
a pi$$ poor shot is just that ! no matter if it is a head shot or a shoulder or lung shot!

anyone capable of hitting a deer with a humane kill lung shot at 100 yards,
is also capable of a humane kill head shot on a moose at 100 yards,,

X2....... this sums it all up quite well!

[sarg]

that would be under a target shooting situation correct? now is that bench rested? freehand? now throw a little adrenalin into the mixture....... bullsye every shot at 100??? or an inch off here and there?
inch off here and there most of the time im resting on a tree or proper rest when target shoot. if i didn't feel comfortable with the rest i can find i wont take the head shot.

[Matty_ola]

I'm thinking the ethics of a head shot falls into the same category as long range shooting and I feel if you've got the trigger time to pull of 1" groups every time you pull the trigger at whatever distance then why not a head shot? If I can put 10 Shots under 6" at 1000 meters everytime I practice who's to say I couldn't hit the boiler room at said distance?

It all comes down to the hunter, I think the only way it's unethical is if the hunter doesn't have the proper tools or training to make the shot.

[tomahawk]

Head shots are effective, great when you are confident of placement. Here's a few deer that fell to them.

18 yd frontal when he got too close when called in.....
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj230/tomahawktom/Deer09017-2.jpg

225 yd shot attending 4 does

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj230/tomahawktom/lastscan-1-1-1.jpg

35 yd shot to the back of the skull as he tried to exit with his doe

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj230/tomahawktom/103_0084-1.jpg

[jeff]

sweet shooting

[meat hunter]

Moose and elk, I prefer the the heart lung shot. I recently downsized my deer gun to a 243 from a 30-06 I have never lost a deer yet. For me it is mostly neck/ head shots.

[bugler]

I don't hunt with rifles anymore but back when I was about 20, and knew everything, I was involved with two head shot incidents that did not go well. One doe that my buddy shot (trying to save meat, duh) went down lack a sack o crap but when we got there she was gone, with just little specks of blood on the snow, never to be seen again. I called in a bull to 20 yards another time and thought I would shoot him in the side of the brain, as how could I miss, with a rest over a log no less. Well, I missed, by a couple inches (pretty small under hunting conditions) and went through just under the brain. He almost fell down, but then straightened up and took off. I managed to stop him with a loud cow call, and put one through some thick brush into his chest, where it should have gone in the first place. Lucky that second one got through or he would have been long gone.

Would not try it again unless the animal was previously wounded and that is all I could see.

[wiggy]

All depends on the situation which most hunting shots do; last two moose i killed both got drilled in the head and dropped cold end of story; friend cranked a bull in the boiler room and it took us half a day to find and finish him;; no guarantee till its dead; tell you one thing im eating moose this year and did not waste one ounce of meat and the animal bled off perfect; best moose i ever ate; only thing i could see clear was the head and i never gave a second thought boom flip dead

[thatskindafunny]

Between the ears at the back of the head from 12 feet up in a tree stand with buck shot at 6 paces sure puts them down fast. There really isn't any where else to shoot when they are that close.

[ryanhuntslots]

It all comes down to tablefare for me, as it should for all of us who eat what we kill. Shoot an animal in the lungs and the heart will pump all the blood out of the meat. That makes for some tasty meat. Shoot an animal in the head and the heart stops along with the brain, and for those that slit the throat after an animal is dead, sorry to say all your your getting out of it is the blood that was in the throat. Do yourself and your dinner guests a favour, shoot for the bread basket.

[wiggy]

It all comes down to tablefare for me, as it should for all of us who eat what we kill. Shoot an animal in the lungs and the heart will pump all the blood out of the meat. That makes for some tasty meat. Shoot an animal in the head and the heart stops along with the brain, and for those that slit the throat after an animal is dead, sorry to say all your your getting out of it is the blood that was in the throat. Do yourself and your dinner guests a favour, shoot for the bread basket.

Moose i drilled this year in the head bled totally out, nothing left inside, depends what gets hit

[rocksteady]

My apologies Bennett, did not read the thread properly, you posted it under bowhunting...I, personally would not take a head shot while BOWHUNTING, it is a low success shot..Heart lungs, hell , Yeah !!! Neck, MAYBE....Head shot...NO WAY..Not eneough kinetic energy to make the bugger do the funky chicken... So rry I misread it....Rifle is a totally different ball o wax...

[whitebirch]

To each his own
For me probably not
I always kid and say "I'm a hunter not a marksman"
I can hit a pie plate out to 300 yards but not comfortable to hammer out head shots


Tht being said I've found shooting to be like a language. The most you do it/use it the better you become. I know that when I shoot a lot one year versus the next, indefinitely more comfortable with marginal shots!

[fuzzybiscuit]

If I was to be executed and was told that I could pick between a good shot from a high powered rifle to the head or one from the same gun to the lungs, I'd pick the one to the head every time! But, that's just me.


I find it funny that some people wouldn't take a head shot with a rifle on a stationary deer at 50 feet, but would think nothing of a running body shot at 200 yards. And I'm the unethical one. Re Todds.

[bugler]

My apologies Bennett, did not read the thread properly, you posted it under bowhunting...

Ditto for me. I talked about my bad experiences with a rifle...

Wouldn't even cross my mind to try it with my bow...

[BlackwaterHunter]

Im against them when bowhunting just for the fact some people stuggle shooting a 5 inch group at 30 yards, and whats going to happen if they try this stunt on a buck at 40?

[sarg]

My apologies Bennett, did not read the thread properly, you posted it under bowhunting...I, personally would not take a head shot while BOWHUNTING, it is a low success shot..Heart lungs, hell , Yeah !!! Neck, MAYBE....Head shot...NO WAY..Not eneough kinetic energy to make the bugger do the funky chicken... So rry I misread it....Rifle is a totally different ball o wax...
x2 thought it was rifle stuff sorry man, i wouldn't do a head shot with a bow,

[Foxtail]

Under 20 yards and it's the only shot presented, yes, I'm confident enough in my ability to make that shot count. I try to shoot every day and I hit 3/4" spots at 40 yards. I have not yet had to take that shot but if I did I would. There are just as many(probably more) animals lost that were shot in the boiler room.

And for the guys saying you wouldn't take the shot because of the chance of injuring the animal.... Seriously??? You are shooting it! It's gonna get injured! That is our main goal, to cause injury resulting in death. Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude I just find it funny. I know what ya meant. I have shot 2 deer and 1 moose in the head with my .270 and all three flopped on the spot. All tasted pretty good to me.

[peashooter]

Anyone know what that buck in the video would score? He has a good inside spread and main beam length.

[Bow Walker]

Know your equipment. Know your own abilities and limitations with that equipment. Practice a lot.

I have taken many animals with rifle - using head shots where possible. It wastes no meat.

I have put a deer to bed with a head shot using my compound bow. It was a pass-thru and the deer in question was stationary at less than 10 yards. The deer was also slowly, slowly bleeding out from a liver/ling hit. I put it out of its misery.

Would I do it again - with archery tackle? Yes. If the circumstances were right, and only is they were right.



.....and Jesse, the thread wasn't deleted. Also, since there are pics posted here that are still here after an uber-mod has read the thread, maybe you can convince FD to re-post the pic of a dead deer with its lower jaw hanging.

[jessbennett]

Know your equipment. Know your own abilities and limitations with that equipment. Practice a lot.

I have taken many animals with rifle - using head shots where possible. It wastes no meat.

I have put a deer to bed with a head shot using my compound bow. It was a pass-thru and the deer in question was stationary at less than 10 yards. The deer was also slowly, slowly bleeding out from a liver/ling hit. I put it out of its misery.

Would I do it again - with archery tackle? Yes. If the circumstances were right, and only is they were right.



.....and Jesse, the thread wasn't deleted. Also, since there are pics posted here that are still here after an uber-mod has read the thread, maybe you can convince FD to re-post the pic of a dead deer with its lower jaw hanging.


there is no right circumstances to a headshot with archery tackle..... unless its POINT BLANK to put an animal out of misery. period.
to purposely take a headshot that is NOT a finishing shot with archery gear shows little to no respect to the animal your trying to harvest.


so would you purposely go for a headshot with archery gear that is NOT a finishing shot? if that was the only shot presented? or would you wait for the "possibility" that the animal may present a "boiler room" shot? and if not would you let it walk?

[bigshooter]

I wouldn't take the shot with my bow, but with a rifle it is a different story. Island blacktails average 80lb on a hook, hide and head off, a bad body shot will cost you 25lb of that. I will go as far to write that if I had a great body shot and a great head shot at under 100 yards I will take the head shot every time. I agree with the post that a deer on the run body shot is a lower percentage kill then a standing head shot.

[Bow Walker]

Jesse, I'm pretty sure you read my post in the other thread that was "deleted". In it I stated that I took the head shot to put a deer out of its lingering, slow death. I also stated that "if presented with the same (or very, very similar) circumstances as were present when I let the buck 'walk' that I would definitely take a head shot.

....also - I have the highest respect for my quarry, be it deer, ducks, bear, or what-have-you.

I think we will (or should) agree to disagree on this topic - at least until we are face-to-face over a beer or a coffee.........I have enough respect for you (and your ability) to at least do that.

[jessbennett]

Jesse, I'm pretty sure you read my post in the other thread that was "deleted". In it I stated that I took the head shot to put a deer out of its lingering, slow death. I also stated that "if presented with the same (or very, very similar) circumstances as were present when I let the buck 'walk' that I would definitely take a head shot.

....also - I have the highest respect for my quarry, be it deer, ducks, bear, or what-have-you.

I think we will (or should) agree to disagree on this topic - at least until we are face-to-face over a beer or a coffee.........I have enough respect for you (and your ability) to at least do that.


absolutely.... im hoping that you were not taking this as a personal attack. if so i appologize. it was not meant that way. it was more questioning circumstance and situation moreso. everyone has a different opinion, and i can more than repect that.
and im sure somewhere along the line we will have that(those) beers.

[Bow Walker]

I should re-iterate/clarify that I do not recommend head shots as a general rule of thumb.

BUT.

There are circumstances where taking a head shot is perfectly ethical and even desirable. Maybe once in a lifetime(?) I very much doubt that the same set of circumstances whereby I let that buck walk will ever repeat themselves. Chances are very, very slim.

[Walksalot]

Killing an animal is a messy business no matter what shot you take. Taking a head or neck shot turns an animal off like a switch and anyone who butchers their own meat knows the whole animal is utilized. I even use a$$hole. I mail it off to Ottawa to make "Keep The Long Gun Registry" proponents out of them.
Having said that I think we must use a little discretion with the pictures we post as we don't need to fuel any anti hunters fire or turn away any potential hunter by posting a picture which resembles an animal hit in the face by a train.

[Bow Walker]

Killing an animal is a messy business no matter what shot you take. Taking a head or neck shot turns an animal off like a switch and anyone who butchers their own meat knows the whole animal is utilized. I even use a$$hole. I mail it off to Ottawa to make "Keep The Long Gun Registry" proponents out of them.
Having said that I think we must use a little discretion with the pictures we post as we don't need to fuel any anti hunters fire or turn away any potential hunter by posting a picture which resembles an animal hit in the face by a train.
One of the many reasons that I deleted the pic in the original thread. It was of a doe - with her lower jaw hanging by a flap of skin. Some 'hunter' missed a head shot.

[emerson]

Head shots with a rifle are like boiler room shots; there is a range for each of us that beyond which taking either shot is "unethical", depending on situation, equipment, shooting skill, and knowledge of animal anatomy. Why are so many hunters clamoring for more "rules and laws" to make everyone like them?

[jessbennett]

Head shots with a rifle are like boiler room shots; there is a range for each of us that beyond which taking either shot is "unethical", depending on situation, equipment, shooting skill, and knowledge of animal anatomy. Why are so many hunters clamoring for more "rules and laws" to make everyone like them?


for the record this post was created in the "archery'' section. in my first post i was questioning headshots ESPECIALLY with archery tackle. its amazing how many people have ranted about headshots with a RIFLE? and im not clamoring for more "rules and laws:", im clamoring for "ethics and responsibility" from an ARCHERY standpoint.

[Bowzone_Mikey]

I have kept quiet on this subject for a long time ... But following it closely ....

With archery tackle ... Never would I go after a head shot unless it was a turkey or grouse (and even then I am looking more at the neck as i will have the BH to cut its head off ideally) .... Even when i have messed up and spined a critter(say a deer) I will put a second shot through its lungs and heart .....

[StoneChaser]

I see taking a headshot on unwounded critters (anything larger than a rabbit) with archery gear as nothing more than an irresponsible, unethical, slobish stunt!

At best you have a spot to hit the size of a tennis ball (an easy shot if you don't factor in a critter's potential movement, a hunter's nerves, range estimation error, skull angle, or the lack of shock an arrow delivers etc...).

If a guy is that hard up for meat, PM me and I'll keep my eye open for some roadkill!

[M.Dean]

What's the difference seeing a Doe starving to death because it's jaw is blown off and seeing a Doe slowly die because some idiot shot it through the belly? Both animals will die very very painfully! We the Hunters can try our best to make sure were not the cause of such awfully suffering!

Make God Dam sure you can kill the animal as cleanly and as quickly as possible before you pull the trigger! I think more Hunters should practice shooting off hand more, also, what I've found works good is when you and the boys are out shooting, try running around a bit, get breathing real hard, go to the firing line and see what you can do!Anyone that wants to try and kill a animal should shoot as much as possible, and as often as they can, practice makes perfect!

But I think the only way to prevent Does walking around with there jaws blown half off is if you have even a tiny bit of doubt about the shot your going to make on that Doe is, Don't Pull The Trigger!

[GoatGuy]

I'm comfortable to about 80 yards after that I'll only take head shot if the animal is looking away or has three legs. With traditional gear 50 yards max for the head shots.... maybe 60 if it's a bison, they have big heads.

Archery section always has the best threads.

[The Hermit]

I am simply not a good enough shot with rifle or bow to take head shots. Hell I've missed deer and bears completely with bow and firearms at 15 yards for one reason or another... I've also made wounding shots and even lost a couple animals as a result. That experience has led me to hold off even in my comfort range of 15-20 yards with the bow if the animal is looking at me.

My bow hunting mentors would kick me out of camp for taking a head shot on any game animal, and my father would have jammed his boot so far up my ass I'd still be shitting shoe polish.

No question head shots are perfectly legal, lethal, and economical for those that are willing to accept an increased risk of wounding, wasting, and condemning wildlife to a slow and horrible death. Like I said... I'm simply not good enough.

[Bow Walker]

Under normal hunting conditions I would not consider, nor recommend, taking head shots with archery gear - compound or especially traditional.

If the animal is perfectly still, is perfectly calm, and is very, very close - under 12 yards, and there was no other alternative shot opportunity, I would consider it. I would first take the time to look at all the variables involved and weigh the options before releasing the arrow.

I know what an arrow will do to the skull of a deer. I have stated before (in both threads) that I have used a head shot to put a deer out of its misery - shooting from close quarters. It worked perfectly. The arrow blew through the skull and dangled out the other side, hanging by the fletching. The deer died - simple as that.




Just my opinion - as always.