Tracking Wolf Progression through the West Kootenays

[SavageShooter]

Morning all, after the whitie season I had a chance to catch up with some of my hunting co-workers and buddies. Alot of them were reporting the same thing, seeing very little deer and lots of wolf sign, especially in areas where they have not been traditionally seen.

THis year we hunted the Koch Creek area including the Little Slocan Lakes area with very little game spotted but lots of wolf tracks. We were able to capture one on a game cam that was set up for a night.

Reports from Rialto Creek drainage was of lots of wolf sign, including deep into the road closure.

Several sightings and game cam pics of wolves at the Salmo end of the Pend Orielle.

Several sightings around Grand Forks including the North Fork and Sand Creek.

So my question is, have wolves always been in these areas, and because of game cameras, the internet etc. that we are hearing more about these packs or is it as many are saying that their numbers are exploding and moving into new areas of the West Kootenays?

Have you had any sightings of wolves in the WK this year and if so have you seen them there before?

Thanks,

SS

[#49]

Signs above Kaslo,towards New Denver,Lardeau Valley,Sightings in Trout Lake and East shore of Kootenay lake.That pretty much covers the whole north end of West Kootenays.

[whitebirch]

Signs above Kaslo,towards New Denver,Lardeau Valley,Sightings in Trout Lake and East shore of Kootenay lake.That pretty much covers the whole north end of West Kootenays.

theyve been there for some time by my experience no?

[gwillim]

I have been seeing tracks directly above Nelson for a few years now. I was lucky enough to witness a wolf chase a mule deer across the slope below me a few years ago while strolling above town. Pretty intense! I have talked to other local Foresters who have seen wolves up Grohman creek and Clearwater creek for many years. It seems odd to me that you never hear wolves around here. Is there some population dynamic that makes them howl some places but not others?

[WKCotts]

Saw more wolf tracks in the last year up Little Slocan than I have in the last 15 years... not good

[WKCotts]

last 15 years combined i meant to say

[The Dude]

Gwillim: Wolves are smart critters, and will shut up if howling brings them unwanted attention.
Another way I know wolves are around? The coyotes shut up. If a local pop of coyotes knows the Boys Are Back in Town, you won't hear a peep out of 'em until the wolves move on.

[hunter1947]

Your statement is dead on there has always been wolves in them areas but very few over the years.
I do agree the wolf population has exploded in many areas in the WK over the past years.
Increasing in numbers new packs of wolves are formed the new packs of wolves venture out to new areas.

[TommyGuitar]

Population is huge over at Salmo-creston range. Worried!

[SavageShooter]

Tommy, funny thing you should mention the Salmo-Creston pack. Another fellow pm'd me that we was encirled by a pack during the elk season on the Salmo Crestom and had to shoot 4. I believe he will post soon hopefully with picks.

SS

[gwillim]

Over the years that I have been in Nelson, I've noticed a steady increase in both moose and elk numbers in the local hills. Makes sense that the wolves will move in when they see all those big shopping carts walking around.

Ooops, typo! I meant to say there are no elk in the W Kootenays, repeat...elk are all dead now...

[steepNdeep]

Ooops, typo! I meant to say there are no elk in the W Kootenays, repeat...elk are all dead now...

How would you know Gwillim? Have you ever shot a bull in the WK? Have you ever shot a bull anywhere for that matter??? :roll:

Wolves are encroaching from every direction in the WK. I've given up on 2 of my favorite spots in the EK because of them. Someone needs to start trapping in the WK...

[TommyGuitar]

It was on my trapline. I ran into a pack of four this Sept too. 20 feet away from a 3' white one.

[TommyGuitar]

encroaching from every direction in the WK. I've given up on 2 of my favorite spots in the EK because of them. Someone needs to start trapping in the WK...

I'm on it.

[gwillim]

How would you know Gwillim? Have you ever shot a bull in the WK? Have you ever shot a bull anywhere for that matter??? :roll:

Wolves are encroaching from every direction in the WK. I've given up on 2 of my favorite spots in the EK because of them. Someone needs to start trapping in the WK...

Not sure why you're annoyed at me for stating the obvious...wolves move in when there's lots to eat. I'm lucky enough to get paid to walk around in the forest every day. While out there, I've noticed an increase in moose and elk numbers around Kootenay lake (since 1981). I don't think this is breaking news...

[steepNdeep]

Not sure why you're annoyed at me for stating the obvious...wolves move in when there's lots to eat. I'm lucky enough to get paid to walk around in the forest every day. While out there, I've noticed an increase in moose and elk numbers around Kootenay lake (since 1981). I don't think this is breaking news...

I'm not annoyed, just wondering since you are talking about elk, if you've ever shot a bull or not. I didn't think so...

[TommyGuitar]

What does it matter if he has or has not? I have not myself, but I intend to some day.

Is shooting a bull some sort of rite of passage that allows you to speak of the elk population with more authority than others?

[steepNdeep]

Tommy, I was just hassling him. Everyone has to start somewhere... (but I wouldn't listen to a mechanic that has never actually worked on an engine ;) )

[TommyGuitar]

Regardless, why don't we get this thread back on track. It is promising.
I'm thinking of putting wolf lure out, making a snare pen, and inside the snare pen having a cheap $10 mp3 player and some shitty speakers playing a prey call. I read that somewhere.
A)Is this legal?
B)Do you think it would work?
Just trying to cut the wolves down.

[hunter1947]

Regardless, why don't we get this thread back on track. It is promising.
I'm thinking of putting wolf lure out, making a snare pen, and inside the snare pen having a cheap $10 mp3 player and some shitty speakers playing a prey call. I read that somewhere.
A)Is this legal?
B)Do you think it would work?
Just trying to cut the wolves down.


I am sure that you are not allowed to use snares for wolves only trappers are allowed as for the other why not put bait out and set up in a populated area where you have seen lots of wolf tracks..

[TommyGuitar]

I am a trapper Wayne :) But just a student trapper. Trying to figure out ways to cut the wolf population this winter. There is too much snow on my line to bring in a bait pile.

[gwillim]

I'm not annoyed, just wondering since you are talking about elk, if you've ever shot a bull or not. I didn't think so...

And I don't think you've ever skied deep powder, or had a gerrard "on the fly"...so what?

If anyone here wants to have an adult conversation about wolves in the W Kootenays you could talk to the MOE biologists who are trying to keep the south Selkirk caribou herd alive. They have pretty detailed knowledge concerning pack locations, and range. They might appreciate an enthusiastic local that wants to trap/hunt wolves.

[Cheetah]

Back in Sept. I was on a 3 day solo hunt for elk in West Kootenay. I was calling elk at first light when a pack of 6 wolves circled me. I killed 2 at 23 yards and killed 2 other ones coming in behind me. I found the 4th one the next day. Even when I was packing them out, the last 2 wolves were howling about 100yards away in brush and would not leave. I believe one of the ones I shot was the Alpha male as he was considerably larger than the other 3 .

[JoshCampbell]

great job on those wolf kills! i seen little for wolf sign while i hunted the castlegar area. nothing compared to the wolf sign i see back in the quesnel/prince george areas. seen tons of coyotes though, more then i ever seen anywhere else. the spot i did see the most wolf sign was around the Railto FSR

[steepNdeep]

I am a trapper Wayne :) But just a student trapper. Trying to figure out ways to cut the wolf population this winter. There is too much snow on my line to bring in a bait pile.
Guitar - We need some young bucks with energy to thin 'em out this winter! If you really want to know, Proguide is the stud trapper teacher on here. In case you don't know how to use the search function on here, these threads willl take you to school... WOLF TRAPPING SCHOOL - ONLINE (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/search.php?searchid=1193745)


Back in Sept. I was on a 3 day solo hunt for elk in West Kootenay. I was calling elk at first light when a pack of 6 wolves circled me. I killed 2 at 23 yards and killed 2 other ones coming in behind me. I found the 4th one the next day. Even when I was packing them out, the last 2 wolves were howling about 100yards away in brush and would not leave. I believe one of the ones I shot was the Alpha male as he was considerably larger than the other 3 .

Awesome slayin'! What did they weigh? I assume that you never heard much buglin' action.

I gave up on my EK spot once the wolves moved in. It breaks up the herds, makes them move a lot more & shuts them up. Makes for some very tough hunting. The trapper has taken ~25 wolves from that spot & still more are coming. My buddy hunted there in November & said they saw more wolf than deer tracks. :evil: :evil:

[Fella]

Do you need a tag to shoot wolves?

[Husky7mm]

And I don't think you've ever skied deep powder, or had a gerrard "on the fly"...so what?

If anyone here wants to have an adult conversation about wolves in the W Kootenays you could talk to the MOE biologists who are trying to keep the south Selkirk caribou herd alive. They have pretty detailed knowledge concerning pack locations, and range. They might appreciate an enthusiastic local that wants to trap/hunt wolves.
Yep they need people support to get wolf control in the caribou zones without alot of noise groups like wildsite shoot it down pretty quick. Now is the time to make the move, it is being bounced about right now.

[Brez]

I'm with Gwillim - stick to the topic.
Guitar, one of my hunting buddies from Alberta is a trapper and he's had great success at snaring wolves. If you want, I can get the info for you or put you in touch with him.
I'd like to know how all these people packing firearms can run into all these wolves in an area with either NBL or 4 for the year, and all they have to show for it are stories.

[GoatGuy]

Yep they need people support to get wolf control in the caribou zones without alot of noise groups like wildsite shoot it down pretty quick. Now is the time to make the move, it is being bounced about right now.

Wildsight will support predator control for mtn caribou recovery.

Getting seriously tired of your out to lunch posts. Try living in reality for once and if you don't know what's going On instead of pulling something out of thin air or repeating what someone said in a coffee shop, ask. Last thing we need is more hunters using the Suzuki approach to wildlife management.

Engage brain then mouth not the other way around.

[Husky7mm]

So why is it not already happening? Which "group" doesn't support it. I dont know if I'm out to lunch all that much just sometimes get some of the details mixed up, I dont have time to sit on the net all day and double check everything, that and we have a different perspective. Lucky for all of us that I have you to correct me.

[GoatGuy]

So why is it not already happening? Which "group" doesn't support it. I dont know if I'm out to lunch all that much just sometimes get some of the details mixed up, I dont have time to sit on the net all day and double check everything, that and we have a different perspective. Lucky for all of us that I have you to correct me.

By name Paul Paquet and the wornderful folks at raincoast as well as Sadie Parr. Those are the big ones.

It's not about being on the net, it's about being in touch with what's going on in conservation.

Your posts are typical of the uninformed opinions that go around in Cranbrook and the result is tarnished relationships between different groups with common goals. It takes a long times to build those relationships and very little time to tear them down. I'm convinced people with your approach have done more harm to the conservation movement than good.

[GoatGuy]

Perhaps the biggest issues surround the history of predator control in BC. The noton that any and everything with teeth or claws should be removed from the ecosystem doesn't sit well with the public and shouldn't with hunters. Unfortunately it is pervasive amongst many; your posts certainly reflect that.

[Husky7mm]

They would'nt have it up in front of cabinet right now if they didn't feel something did'nt need to be done. They (bio's) are also very enjoyable to talk to, none dicussion of any kind so far has been negative or degrading. Which is more than I can say for any experience with you. I might be sometimes misinformed or get things muddled but at least I'm not a hypocrite. Singing the praises of long and liberal seasons, yet terrified to even share a picture of an animal or a hunt for fear of the reality your little piece of the last frontier will be overrun, overhunted and indeed over harvested. Seems like a waste talent to ram your perspective down my throat everyday when you could be actually doing something about wolves and muledeer# etc.....

[GoatGuy]

They would'nt have it up in front of cabinet right now if they didn't feel something did'nt need to be done. They (bio's) are also very enjoyable to talk to, none dicussion of any kind so far has been negative or degrading. Which is more than I can say for any experience with you. I might be sometimes misinformed or get things muddled but at least I'm not a hypocrite. Singing the praises of long and liberal seasons, yet terrified to even share a picture of an animal or a hunt for fear of the reality your little piece of the last frontier will be overrun, overhunted and indeed over harvested. Seems like a waste talent to ram your perspective down my throat everyday when you could be actually doing something about wolves and muledeer# etc.....

Don't post pictures because there are too many people who are motivated by the kill. Have no interest in feeding the people who are motivated by inches and checklists. Lots of people who are all about competing against their fellow hunter and want everyone else regulated to their personal standard with a complete disregard for science and conservation. Sound familiar? Send people in to the areas we hunt all the time, often with a map in hand, but screen the culls out first. Last person I want to run into or hunt with is David Suzuki toting a gun dressed in Sitka.

Predator control to increase mtn caribou populations has been in front of cabinet since the 90s. Don't think this is a new thing.

Got to laugh about the bio talk. Guarantee you don't walk in to the cranbrook office with a picture of 20 wt deer hanging from the pole dancing around the room lighting your hair on fire. Dealt with this persona many, many, many times. You need to get a grip.

[Islandeer]

This boils down to money and politics. Which really are the same kettle of fish. Wolf control,costs a lot of money for the Province to get involved.

Then there is the politics of it, animal rights are firmly entrenched in the social conscious of our society. They have hooks in all of the mainstream eco movements, including the native cause. Our government is totally pinched when it comes to being bold and forward, they would much rather our side and the other side duke it out and create a new reality that they can then side or live with.

This is an epic clash that needs understanding and the bitter pill of compromise from both sides to create any new direction.

Husky you obviously care about the mule deer in the EK and have raised the alarm about it's sustainability,good on you.
The next step is working with people and power groups, ie MOE,BCWF, etc to lobby and implement action.

IMO the wolf problem is cyclic, it also is politically charged and so will not result in a MOE wolf kill program. So trap them,hunt them,and live with the idea that they have a place out there too. Having better habitat and a more vibrant mule deer population too would certainly help the cause as well. This would create more BC resident hunting opportunities, and take away the Green's stance that hunters only support prey animals and not predators. We have to play this game the right way now.

[Husky7mm]

Maby, just maby at one time I might have been open to taking something in from all you've posted. But eversince you have brought it on you self to police every facking opinion, observation, experience that I have shared and then measure it up to see if it fits into your view and agenda, your imput falling on deaf ears! You have youself to thank for that. Be it fact or fiction, what make your perspective the correct one on everything? Your a hypocrit you won't convince me otherwise.

[Husky7mm]

When I here about the money and politics, I see red. Buy the time its on a provincial level its I BIG BLACK HOLE of waste and Federaly it even worse. Billions of $$$ pissed up ropes for every cockeye idea from soup to nuts. T
They can spend some money on it if the stake holders demand it. As to the politiical correctness of it, how do you hold a terd by the clean end? We have been told modern society for years, including ourselves that its just inot the way we do things anymore, then pow Alberta has a cull, its 2012 and they have a wolf cull. I say right on! It gives me hope for BC and immediate results. I believe the strong populations of the province were the direct result of the intense measures taken in the past to keep those eating machines #'s down, and I along with many others hope to see it happen again.

[GoatGuy]

Maby, just maby at one time I might have been open to taking something in from all you've posted. But eversince you have brought it on you self to police every facking opinion, observation, experience that I have shared and then measure it up to see if it fits into your view and agenda, your imput falling on deaf ears! You have youself to thank for that. Be it fact or fiction, what make your perspective the correct one on everything?

Science and I'm not lighting my hair on fire.


Your a hypocrit you won't convince me otherwise.

Thank-you, you have proved the point.

[GoatGuy]

When I here about the money and politics, I see red. Buy the time its on a provincial level its I BIG BLACK HOLE of waste and Federaly it even worse. Billions of $$$ pissed up ropes for every cockeye idea from soup to nuts. T
They can spend some money on it if the stake holders demand it. As to the politiical correctness of it, how do you hold a terd by the clean end? We have been told modern society for years, including ourselves that its just inot the way we do things anymore, then pow Alberta has a cull, its 2012 and they have a wolf cull. I say right on! It gives me hope for BC and immediate results. I believe the strong populations of the province were the direct result of the intense measures taken in the past to keep those eating machines #'s down, and I along with many others hope to see it happen again.

Alberta has had predator control, not just wolves, for years. They have been using poison which is not exclusive to wolves. The background and socio-political environment in Alberta is much different in BC. Also, the story isn't what you believe. You've missed the prey control part and the permits to shoot moose from the air as well.

[dave_83golf]

I found the same thing up here in Kamloops.... We did still see lots of deer, but the Wolf population is certainly on the rise. I guess it makes sense... Deer population does up, so do the predator numbers...

[Husky7mm]

Thanks for keeping me educated. Your last post was missing a snide remark, I barley know what to do with it. As for science I have a hair on fire scientic inspired idea, instead of capturing wolves and making them infertile why not capture deer and give them fertility drugs to yeald more offspring....... relax its a joke. On a more serious note on Bio's I cant tell you how many times I have read their comments about what they have taken from local imput, so dont think there above collaborating knowledge with joe hunter. Many, many arctiles have, "we dont knows" in them so no one trully really has it all figured out or everyone would be following suite.

[WKCotts]

Wanted to bring this thread back from the dead. Anyone been out this spring/summer and seen sign??? I'll be back in to my spots in another 2 weeks snow permitting.

[604redneck]

Tommy, I was just hassling him. Everyone has to start somewhere... (but I wouldn't listen to a mechanic that has never actually worked on an engine ;) )
Dont need to shoot an elk to see the population increase if you're woking and walking in the forest.....probably more than most hunters too...

[Moose Guide]

theyve been there for some time by my experience no?

I have lived in the Lardeau Valley for 45 years and before 1995 had only seen 3 wolves here, and only heard of one or two other sightings. People here started seeing packs of wolves around 95 and now you can often here them howling at night(It was a shock the first time I heard them howl and they were only about 200 yds. from my house[2009]) or spot them in the fields at mid day! In the last 2 months I have seen a black Lobo about 4 or 5 times at the mill! Yes, the wolf population is exploding here!!!

[Moose Guide]

Posted before I looked at the date lol!

[bearheart]

Back in Sept. I was on a 3 day solo hunt for elk in West Kootenay. I was calling elk at first light when a pack of 6 wolves circled me. I killed 2 at 23 yards and killed 2 other ones coming in behind me. I found the 4th one the next day. Even when I was packing them out, the last 2 wolves were howling about 100yards away in brush and would not leave. I believe one of the ones I shot was the Alpha male as he was considerably larger than the other 3 .
Nice looking wolves. East or west of Christina Lake. My question is because I hunt west of Christina Lake and would like to be aware if those bad boys are about for my peace of mind. Their presence would sure explain the few deer I saw last fall.

[traderphil]

i strongly urge all hunters to take wolves whenever the opportunity presents itself. If we harvest the prey species we MUST also reduce the carnivores as well!

[tater]

Wolves west of Christina? Yup.
I've seen them as far south as KM 10 on the North Fork, and all the way up the Burrel towards Edgewood.
Simple fact is as moose populations go up, so too do the wolves.
And we have a lot more moose now than we did ten years ago.

[GoatGuy]

Nice looking wolves. East or west of Christina Lake. My question is because I hunt west of Christina Lake and would like to be aware if those bad boys are about for my peace of mind. Their presence would sure explain the few deer I saw last fall.

Yes, all the way out towards Merritt and probably beyond. Have them right around Kelowna, both sides of Okanagan Lake.