mature mule deer ??

[ROEBUCK]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/IMG_8026.JPG

how can you tell a mature mule deer buck by its antlers ?
is the g1,s an indication?
this buck had small g1,s does this mean he was a young buck ?
I forgot to check his teeth !
He had a very big body !
thanks for any knowledge
Dan

[6616]

Thats a nice buck you got there, looks like a mature deer to me. I'm judging by the size and geometry of the antlers, the size of the bases. The distance between the pedicles looks like he had a fairly big head.

Far as my experience goes there no relationship between age and G1s, I've shot young bucks with long G1s and old bucks that had no G1s at all. I believe the length of any specific antler tine including G1s is purely genetic. I've heard people say the deer was older because of the coloration of antler. I don't think that's correct either and probably depends more on what species of tree or shrub he mostly uses to rub on. I think one method that might be a half-assed indication is the overall size of his head, but again some young deer are big and some old deer are small and again genetics comes into play. The overall size of antlers is a partial indication since 3 year old bucks are rarely 190 bucks.

The diameter of the antler pedicle might be a better indication as the deers head gets larger and larger every year and so do the pedicles. Again some young bucks that have large antlers probably have large pedicles so it's still pretty subjective. A bucks antlers can be larger or smaller than the previous year depending on food and habitat quality but pedicles are part of the skull and likely never get smaller. Even a very old buck with reccessive antlers probably has the same size pediles he had when he was younger and had larger antlers. So I would say if all you have are the antlers to make this judgement the diameter of the pedicles is probably the closest way, but as you know there's no hard and fast rules with wildlife so the entire decision will always be somewhat subjective.

Also as a rule an older or more mature buck usually has more gnarly antlers as compared to a young buck who has relativelly smooth antlers and non-typical points may be more prevalent as a buck gets older. Live on the hoof is the best way as mature bucks are usually deeper and wider through the chest and older bucks tend to be a little pot-bellied and sway backed with more grizzled face coloration. Body language is also a clue as younger bucks are often more fidgity and jumpy.

Even looking at tooth wear is subjective as wear can vary with diet and to judge a deers age by his teeth takes experience and looking over a lot of sets of teeth. Generally an experienced person will add up all the above clues and make a fairly accurate assessment but it's never based on one thing alone and for sure the length of G1s might be part of the mix but is not an absolute indicator of age. There really is no absolute indicator or universites and labs would not be grinding teeth to age deer.

[ROEBUCK]

interesting reply !
makes total sense! he had a huge body and a huge head ,and at the time i was sure he was fairly old, but i since heard that small g1 means it is a young buck.
THANKS 6616

[doubled]

I always thought that no brow tines meant either a young un or one on the other side of the scale. Looking at all of my racks, the mature ones all have brow tines and only the younger and smaller racks were without brows. This is just my experience and could be way out in left field.

[Mr. Dean]

I'm with 6616 on this.
I've watched deer grow over the years and IMO, body size/shape/colour is the best indicator.

The only stock I put into antlers vs age, is mass.
Genetics is the biggest player in tine lengths; Brows inc.


No science involed, just MO from what I've noticed while watching the same deers every year....

[Husky7mm]

I would say its any configuration of rack on a buck at least a 4 yr or older. The bucks body is big and heavy, his tracks are large and blocky. This head add scull are wider and longer, everything is larger. Some don't grow big racks. Some don't grow brow tines. Some have short tines, front or back. Some are real studs and have it all. Your buck is mature. This is a buck that does most of the breeding unless there are none around for one reason or another, but thats a different story:confused:. Nice buck, you should be proud.

[ianwuzhere]

teeth and grey hair can be a good sign of age, pretty hard to say how old he is by antlers i think, but definately mature.

[Foxton Gundogs]

i'm with 6616 on this.
I've watched deer grow over the years and imo, body size/shape/colour is the best indicator.

The only stock i put into antlers vs age, is mass.
Genetics is the biggest player in tine lengths; brows inc.


No science involed, just mo from what i've noticed while watching the same deers every year....

x2..........

[r106]

I would think long g1's or no brow tines has more to do with genetics and the quality of food for the deer. I believe the best way to age a deer is by the body. Example- if the chest cavity is lower than the belly and he looks slimer 1.5-2.5 years old. Chest is just a little lower or almost level with belly and wider shoulders 3.5 year old. chest is level or higher than belly, filled out all over and stocky shoulders is 4.5. Don't know how true all that is but it's what i heard

[ROEBUCK]

i HAVE A MOVIE CLIP OF THIS BUCK AFTER I SHOT IT, NEXT TO MY SPRINGER SPANIEL FOR SIZE REFERANCE
UNFORTUNATELY ITS A CELL PHONE MOVIE SO QUALITY ISNT THE BEST
IF ANYBODY IS INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT IT i could send it via e-mail

[Brian011]

I would say the main indication of a mature buck would be mass. As well you can notice that the teeth are worn more than younger bucks. Weight of a deer can vary, think of it the same as ppl, they all have different genetics and could be a mature buck with a small body. Some older bucks start to grow irregular points but it's not always the case as some younger bucks with non typ genetics do also. I've also shot young bucks with brow tines and older bucks with no brow tines do it just depends on the buck.
This yr I shot a big buck with big heavy bases and was definitely an older buck, then compared to a younger buck that my dad shot, his buck weighed more than my buck, so it varies from each deer.

[dana]

Did he have a roman nose? Were his ears ripped and torn? Did he have a black mask or a grey mask? No roman nose, no rips and tears and black mask all combine to tell ya it is a young buck. Roman nose, face scared, ears ripped, lots of grey in the mask all combine to tell ya it is an older buck. Typically antlers get heavier as a buck ages. Good mass throughout normally means a buck is older. But mass can also be genetic. So it isn't the best indicator. Body size also can be based on genetics or even lush feed. Hard to judge age based on body size alone.

[ROEBUCK]

Yes dana
he did have torn ears and a roman nose

[Caveman]

teeth and grey hair can be a good sign of age, pretty hard to say how old he is by antlers i think, but definately mature.

My reply would be like this as well.

[deer nut]

Tooth wear (esp. premolar wear) and the classic "roman nose" on mule deer are good indicators of age.