View Full Version : Region 8 mule deer season change???
fireguy
11-13-2011, 08:02 PM
Just to throw this out there for comment, what would you think of these changes.
1. leave the any buck season for youth only.
Change the any buck season to a 3 point or better for October and
and 4 point from Sept 1 to 30th and November 1 to 30th.
or
2 leave the any buck season for youth only
Change the any buck season to a 3 point or better for 2 weeks in October and the rest of the season 4 point only.
This would, in my opinion make for better hunting for everyone after the first year.
coach
11-13-2011, 08:06 PM
Why 3 point or better? Is there a conservation concern? Would these changes help the population?
id go for that .im not a fan at all of any buck for all of oct. its to much on them .basically its 2 months of any buck ,between youth and all of oct .its a slaughter
islandhunter
11-13-2011, 08:09 PM
I agree there needs to be a change, I think no special youth season. And 3 point or better for the open season. These little 2 points and spikes are getting SLAUGHTERED out here. I dont even bother going out much anymore.
fireguy
11-13-2011, 08:09 PM
Just to increase the buck to doe ratio and line the seasons up better with other regions. If less two points are taken, there will be more three and four points the following years. Taking away a smaller buck for some to shoot will be a hard pill to swallow for some so it leaves a season for "meat" deer.
coach
11-13-2011, 08:10 PM
Where's the data to back that up, Jeff? I'm all for adjusting seasons if it's justified - but I don't know that it's necessary.
Where's the data to back that up, Jeff? I'm all for adjusting seasons if it's justified - but I don't know that it's necessary.
obviously theres no data but just think about it ..2 months of any bone . this year my kids got there core and between the 3 of us we all got our deer ,and pretty much outa the 8 or so trips to reg 8 i saw alota dead deer in the camps and backs of pickups.,and mostly all little 2 pointers and spikes
frenchbar
11-13-2011, 08:18 PM
id go for that .im not a fan at all of any buck for all of oct. its to much on them .basically its 2 months of any buck ,between youth and all of oct .its a slaughter
Did you witness all this slaughtering you speak of? are the kids killing all the deer...i highly doubt it...
hunter1993ap
11-13-2011, 08:19 PM
the data to back it up is the lack of deer. how many threads have you seen on here of people complaining about how little of bucks they see. i'm not a biologist so i dont know numbers but Ive hunted hard all my life and know a lot of people around who hunt hard and shed hunt hard and the number of bucks just are not around the last few years. it could have been a natural die out but if the season changed the deer might have a easier time recovering. the last couple years in the okanagan i have spent a lot of time in the winter range where you could drive through and see hundreds of deer and now you only see a handfull.
Did you witness all this slaughtering you speak of? are the kids killing all the deer...i highly doubt it...
u dont think 2 months of any buck in region 8 is killing off more little bucks than is being produced every year..i do
horshur
11-13-2011, 08:26 PM
obviously theres no data but just think about it ..2 months of any bone . this year my kids got there core and between the 3 of us we all got our deer ,and pretty much outa the 8 or so trips to reg 8 i saw alota dead deer in the camps and backs of pickups.,and mostly all little 2 pointers and spikes
That is how it is supposed to go....a young animal that even the wife will enjoy cooking...God Forbid!!!
horshur
11-13-2011, 08:32 PM
u dont think 2 months of any buck in region 8 is killing off more little bucks than is being produced every year..i do
no .....you would have to kill does to change how many young bucks are produced every fall.
no .....you would have to kill does to change how many young bucks are produced every fall.
but if more are getting shot every year with the extended any buck season ..then common sense says the numbers will go down
fireguy
11-13-2011, 08:37 PM
Another option would be to knock the any buck season down to two weeks in october as an option so people can shoot their small ones. I'm not against having an any buck season, I just have seen the deer numbers going down over the years.
After one season of 3 point as your young buck season or a shortened any buck season, there should be more bigger deer and better hunting for everyone.
I think the youth season is great and should remain, it might mean the rest of us have to target bigger bucks but that I don't think is that big a deal.
Where I hunted this year I should have seen many more deer than I did and a whole lot more bucks. That said I did see 4 points that I could have taken, I was looking for something bigger and I really don't want to take a 2 point. A friend of mine was hunting the other day and saw 50 does and only 4 small 2 points in the bunch, and this is at the end of our season when there should be more bucks mixed in.
I would rather be proactive than reactive when it comes to stuff like this and look at making our hunting opportunities better.
coach
11-13-2011, 08:37 PM
the data to back it up is the lack of deer. how many threads have you seen on here of people complaining about how little of bucks they see. i'm not a biologist so i dont know numbers but Ive hunted hard all my life and know a lot of people around who hunt hard and shed hunt hard and the number of bucks just are not around the last few years. it could have been a natural die out but if the season changed the deer might have a easier time recovering. the last couple years in the okanagan i have spent a lot of time in the winter range where you could drive through and see hundreds of deer and now you only see a handfull.
I've read the threads and try not to question anyone's hunting ability. Personally, I've seen more bucks this year than any of the last 5 - and I haven't hunted that far from home. That doesn't mean there's an over-abundance either. It's just my personal experience.
.300wsm
11-13-2011, 08:43 PM
scrap the youth season. make it 4 point or better for two years the length of season, see what happens.
frenchbar
11-13-2011, 08:48 PM
scrap the youth season. make it 4 point or better for two years the length of season, see what happens.
may as well shut off deer hunting all together for a couple yrs ...what the hell..see what happens .lol
Gunner Staal
11-13-2011, 08:50 PM
I agree the any buck season could be shorter but dont take away the youth season. That season is what gets kids involved in the sport. There are very few bucks being taken by youth compared to the any buck season for adults. Kids dont have the attention span that we do and I think it would be quite discouraging for a youth to put in as many hours as I have the last 3 years and not get a four point. Watching my nephew (12 year old) take his 2 point every year is the highlight of my season. I would rather eat my own tag than see him not take an animal. I say shorten adult any buck to two weeks or even one week and make the rest of the season four point or better. I would also like to see the Region 8 bow season remain open from November 10th-December 10th.
.300wsm
11-13-2011, 09:00 PM
may as well shut off deer hunting all together for a couple yrs ...what the hell..see what happens .lol
Don't see to many 4 point's on your afternoon cruise ?
boxhitch
11-13-2011, 09:01 PM
The number of bucks being produced every year will be consistant with he number of does , regardless of how many are shot.
Lots of guys filling their tag with any buck makes them happy and clears the roads for the later shooters.
Where I've been looking there has been as much or more deer sign this year as the last five , no concerns.
If reg 8 deer are really challenged compared to the neighboring reg 4 and 3, then they need special needs, otherwise lets harmonize the dates
boxhitch
11-13-2011, 09:03 PM
A friend of mine was hunting the other day and saw 50 does and only 4 small 2 points in the bunch, and this is at the end of our season when there should be more bucks mixed in. Someone needs a lesson in the habits of mature bucks
frenchbar
11-13-2011, 09:04 PM
Don't see to many 4 point's on your afternoon cruise ?
yup ! lots of 2 pointers and spikes too .....:mrgreen:
peashooter
11-13-2011, 09:13 PM
So wait, there is deer hanging in every camp, but there are no bucks to be found? As for the lack of 4 points perhaps its where the hunters are looking. In October it's not likely a 4 point is going to be sticking around with a bunch of does in the open.
Gunner
11-13-2011, 09:13 PM
No lack of mature mule deer bucks in my part of the Okanagan,finding them is another thing.Region 8 is more varied than most management units.There is a HUGE difference between the Princeton area,the South Okanagan,and the area bordering the Shuswap where I live.My area could stand harmonisation with Region 3 and 4,some of the southern areas(Keremeos or Grand Forks) maybe couldn't.I would like to see a later opening for 4 points.I'm less than 10 miles from Region 3 and their 4 points seem to handle the Dec.10th close just fine.What makes the deer in my area so different? Gunner
spear
11-13-2011, 09:18 PM
I think changing it to two weeks of youth any buck, and two weeks of any buck would be good.
Any buck season is great for people without a lot of experience, but I think having a 4 point season being longer would be great for letting younger bucks mature.
I think the Island should have a 2 point or better season too.
fireguy
11-13-2011, 09:26 PM
Someone needs a lesson in the habits of mature bucks
No lessons needed for him, he was out hunting with his kids who won't shoot a two point because they are to small for them. I also didn't say not enough mature bucks, just not enough bucks, 2 point/spike or otherwise.
coach
11-13-2011, 09:32 PM
scrap the youth season. make it 4 point or better for two years the length of season, see what happens.
First off - how many bucks are the youths slaughtering?
Secondly - what is the conservation concern that requires such an experiment?
Sorry to burst your bubble but I think you are too late with your proposal. They pretty much have all next year's proposals short listed. Your deer season will only see a minor change. There is a link on this recent thread.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?74339-2012-2013-hunting-angling-amp-trapping-regulation-proposals-posted.
fireguy
11-13-2011, 09:37 PM
What would you rather have, a harmonized region 3 with what 8 has now, or a closer to 3 season in region 8 and what would be acceptable to get to that?
finngun
11-13-2011, 09:37 PM
what about instead any buck----3 pointer or less?? that saves mature breeding bucks and meat is tasty--yes little less ..but who cares..?i go for that
fireguy
11-13-2011, 09:39 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but I think you are too late with your proposal. They pretty much have all next year's proposals short listed. Your deer season will only see a minor change. There is a link on this recent thread.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?74339-2012-2013-hunting-angling-amp-trapping-regulation-proposals-posted.
This wouldn't be for the next 2 years but for three years from now, just a starter discussion that is actually going on.
hunter1993ap
11-13-2011, 09:44 PM
what about instead any buck----3 pointer or less?? that saves mature breeding bucks and meat is tasty--yes little less ..but who cares..?i go for that ouch that would hurt. i think i would quit hunting if that happened. :(
If you're talking pipe dreams in the future, then I'd say they need get Region 8, 5, and 4 harmonized with Region 3's season.
coach
11-13-2011, 09:50 PM
ouch that would hurt. i think i would quit hunting if that happened. :(
Interesting response. It says a lot. Restrictive seasons turn people off of hunting. We need to work toward maintaining opportunity for everyone while ensuring the health of the animal population.
coach
11-13-2011, 09:51 PM
If you're talking pipe dreams in the future, then I'd say they need get Region 8, 5, and 4 harmonized with Region 3's season.
I completely agree, Dana. Different rules can be implemented in specific areas of concern within each region.
frenchbar
11-13-2011, 09:52 PM
ouch that would hurt. i think i would quit hunting if that happened. :(
why exactly would you quit hunting...
Sitkaspruce
11-13-2011, 09:52 PM
Another option would be to knock the any buck season down to two weeks in october as an option so people can shoot their small ones. I'm not against having an any buck season, I just have seen the deer numbers going down over the years.
Nothing like crowding a bunch of hunters into a small time frame to hunt deer.
If numbers are going down, then why is there still a "Slaughter" as Jeff and a few others state??? Must still be lots of bucks running around.
After one season of 3 point as your young buck season or a shortened any buck season, there should be more bigger deer and better hunting for everyone.
I think the youth season is great and should remain, it might mean the rest of us have to target bigger bucks but that I don't think is that big a deal.
So what is the difference if you shoot them as a two point or as a three/four point? I thought the idea of hunting was to hunt an animal and use its meat to feed your family....Unless you are a "Trophy Hunter" who just wants bigger bucks like the GO's do in region 5. I just do not see your logic. Who cares when they are shot.
Where I hunted this year I should have seen many more deer than I did and a whole lot more bucks. That said I did see 4 points that I could have taken, I was looking for something bigger and I really don't want to take a 2 point. A friend of mine was hunting the other day and saw 50 does and only 4 small 2 points in the bunch, and this is at the end of our season when there should be more bucks mixed in.
So you turn down a legal buck , chose not to shoot a smaller two point, "think" you should be able to pick and chose your buck and you think that it should be changed to suit your wishes??? What about all the other hunters who like to participate in the so called "Slaughter"...how about their wishes and wants???
I would rather be proactive than reactive when it comes to stuff like this and look at making our hunting opportunities better.
Unless there is a serious decline in muley bucks, your "Wishes and wants" logic just does not work.
No lessons needed for him, he was out hunting with his kids who won't shoot a two point because they are to small for them. I also didn't say not enough mature bucks, just not enough bucks, 2 point/spike or otherwise.
If someone choses to not shoot a legal buck, then they have no right to complain about hunting seasons or want to see changes to better themselves.
No, I do not live in region 8, but my sister does and she see lots of good bucks on their winter range while out riding her horse.
I also hate to see hunter oppurtunity taken away because of what someone says or thinks. If there is a problem, then it needs to be fixed, but I have not heard of anything from either MOE or BCWF.
Cheers
SS
KevinB
11-13-2011, 09:53 PM
obviously theres no data but just think about it ..2 months of any bone . this year my kids got there core and between the 3 of us we all got our deer ,and pretty much outa the 8 or so trips to reg 8 i saw alota dead deer in the camps and backs of pickups.,and mostly all little 2 pointers and spikes
So? Please explain, again, exactly what the problem is...if folks are shooting a lot of bucks, then it sounds to me that there's no shortage of them. If they are getting "slaughtered" then presumably they'd be hard to find, and nobody would be killing them?
A certain smart guy on here said it best a few years ago, and luckily I saved his quote in my sig line...
horshur
11-13-2011, 09:54 PM
but if more are getting shot every year with the extended any buck season ..then common sense says the numbers will go down
No...mostly what are being shot are last years fawns. This years fawns will replace them next season....sorta like rancher bob...he has a few bulls and many cows who have calves in the spring that are shipped in the fall and it all starts over again.
Gunner
11-13-2011, 09:55 PM
[QUOTE=fireguy;1017282]What would you rather have, a harmonized region 3 with what 8 has now, or a closer to 3 season in region 8 and what would be acceptable to get to that?[/QUOTE Region 8's season should be closer to Region 3 & 4,not the other way round. Gunner
So? Please explain, again, exactly what the problem is...if folks are shooting a lot of bucks, then it sounds to me that there's no shortage of them. If they are getting "slaughtered" then presumably they'd be hard to find, and nobody would be killing them?
A certain smart guy on here said it best a few years ago, and luckily I saved his quote in my sig line...
the problem is ,after several years of this slaughter the numbers will decline . this is only the second year of these changes .u have your theory ,i have mine
Jeff,
I see you have your location listed as Surrey. Seriously, how much time did ya spend in Region 8 hunting this year? I have a hard time believing someone from Surrey has their fingers on the pulse of mule deer numbers in the entire Region 8.
coach
11-13-2011, 10:14 PM
the problem is ,after several years of this slaughter the numbers will decline . this is only the second year of these changes .u have your theory ,i have mine
Funny, Jeff, the previous two seasons, youth hunters could kill mule deer between Nov 11 and 18. So the bonanza you enjoyed this year should have, in theory, been adversely affected by that season (which has since been closed so that nobody in region 8 can hunt during the peak rut). I'm confused.
Jeff,
I see you have your location listed as Surrey. Seriously, how much time did ya spend in Region 8 hunting this year? I have a hard time believing someone from Surrey has their fingers on the pulse of mule deer numbers in the entire Region 8.
accually dana, i spent more time in region 8 than i did in surrey .im only 2 hours away from reg 8. and i never said i got my finger on the pulse of the populations. what is with some of of u guys who just like to get me going ,im on thin ice on this site ,,so i aint biteing
Funny, Jeff, the previous two seasons, youth hunters could kill mule deer between Nov 11 and 18. So the bonanza you enjoyed this year should have, in theory, been adversely affected by that season (which has since been closed so that nobody in region 8 can hunt during the peak rut). I'm confused.
i never mentioned those dates ,cuz i dont beleive the youth season is going to be a problem ,its the month of oct that worries me
Jeff,
How come Region 3 can have the most liberal seasons in the entire province and we've been doing that for almost 20 years and we still have lots of bucks and even crank out some of the biggest ones to boot? 20 years of any buck seasons for the entire month of Oct. Close to the coast, close to the Okanagan. Lots of hunters from both areas come to enjoy the hunting here. If you follow your rationale then shouldn't muleys have been extinct long ago in Region 3?
coach
11-13-2011, 10:25 PM
Jeff, I've still seen no evidence of the slaughter that you and others are alluding to. Where are the facts? If all the people who shot two points this year had killed four points instead, would people still be complaining of a slaughter?
Going Hot
11-13-2011, 10:25 PM
What does everyone think about leaving the dates the same etc.. but make it two points or better leaving the poor little spikes alone for five years then reassess.
Jeff, I've still seen no evidence of the slaughter that you and others are alluding to. Where are the facts? If all the people who shot two points this year had killed four points instead, would people still be complaining of a slaughter?
holy crap u guys are just disecting everything ..im just giveing my opinion ..now let that be .u got your opinion i got mine ..am i asking u where your facts are comeing from .
Gunner
11-13-2011, 10:29 PM
Jeff,I live in Region 8,have for the past 12 years.I don't just hunt the mulies in the fall I watch them on their winter ranges when we scoutfor cats and check on the does and fawns in the spring when we're chasing blackies.I watch the bucks grow bone through the summer,and I know the intermediate ranges they use before they drop down to winter again.I have a pretty fair idea how many cats are working the ridges,and I'm upset at how much wolf sign I see nowdays.But that is only in my area,not in Grand Forks,or Princeton or Summerland(although I have hunted all those areas over the years).I don't feel that I have my finger on the pulse of mule deer numbers in Region 8,it is a large diverse area.I do feel that I know pretty darn well what the numbers are on the hills behind my home.I don't attempt to extrapolate that knowledge to the rest of the Region,different areas within a Region often have different problems or pressures.I'd still like to see a later 4 point season. Gunner
Fisher-Dude
11-13-2011, 10:33 PM
I see a bunch of social engineering on here, and very little science.
Mule deer counts in ALL areas of region 8 except the Grandby are UP, and UP a lot. Buck : doe ratios are ALL over the provincial minimum of 20 : 100. Fawn : doe counts are ALL good and over-winter on fawns is GOOD. There's NO sperm supply issue with MD in region 8 (KevinB's sig line).
Any buck used to run Sept 10 to Nov 30 in region 8.
Then it ran Sept 10 to Nov 15.
There was no conservation concern then, and there is none now with Oct 1 - 31.
A bunch of guys who want to see fewer hunters in "their" spots want to curb the season and kill off hunter numbers. They are just too obtuse to realize that will spell the complete end of hunting in BC, for everyone, themselves included. Stupid stupid stupid fools.
coach
11-13-2011, 10:33 PM
What does everyone think about leaving the dates the same etc.. but make it two points or better leaving the poor little spikes alone for five years then reassess.
Why? Why difference would this make? Is there a conservation concern?
Jeff,I live in Region 8,have for the past 12 years.I don't just hunt the mulies in the fall I watch them on their winter ranges when we scoutfor cats and check on the does and fawns in the spring when we're chasing blackies.I watch the bucks grow bone through the summer,and I know the intermediate ranges they use before they drop down to winter again.I have a pretty fair idea how many cats are working the ridges,and I'm upset at how much wolf sign I see nowdays.But that is only in my area,not in Grand Forks,or Princeton or Summerland(although I have hunted all those areas over the years).I don't feel that I have my finger on the pulse of mule deer numbers in Region 8,it is a large diverse area.I do feel that I know pretty darn well what the numbers are on the hills behind my home.I don't attempt to extrapolate that knowledge to the rest of the Region,different areas within a Region often have different problems or pressures.I'd still like to see a later 4 point season. Gunner
my best buddy lives in princeton and i go there year round . and when im there im pretty much in the bush scouting ,fishing 24 /7 ,so i do see the year round activity of the deer and elk. and i never said once on this thread that the population is down .i said i am concerned about the future populations
Fisher-Dude
11-13-2011, 10:37 PM
What does everyone think about leaving the dates the same etc.. but make it two points or better leaving the poor little spikes alone for five years then reassess.
What would that do? Spikes have some of the highest mortality over winter, and much of the spike harvest is compensatory not additive.
You have zero science behind your wishes. Just because you don't shoot spikes doesn't mean someone else shouldn't.
Fisher-Dude
11-13-2011, 10:39 PM
my best buddy lives in princeton and i go there year round . and when im there im pretty much in the bush scouting ,fishing 24 /7 ,so i do see the year round activity of the deer and elk. and i never said once on this thread that the population is down .i said i am concerned about the future populations
Why are the populations expanding now with any buck season then, and all buck : doe ratios are good? We've had any buck seasons forever.
Why are the populations expanding now with any buck season then, and all buck : doe ratios are good? We've had any buck seasons forever.
we have had any buck seasons forever , but not with these extended dates.
Fisher-Dude
11-13-2011, 10:59 PM
we have had any buck seasons forever , but not with these extended dates.
Read my post above. Any buck ran from Sept 10 to Nov 30. Then it ran Sept 10 to Nov 15. Much, much longer than it does now.
Read my post above. Any buck ran from Sept 10 to Nov 30. Then it ran Sept 10 to Nov 15. Much, much longer than it does now.
huh. did not no that
u dont think 2 months of any buck in region 8 is killing off more little bucks than is being produced every year..i do
Highly unlikely, actually practically impossible. With a ratio of 25 bucks per 100 does you should have a minimum of 5000 bucks and a minimum of 20,000 does each having an average of 1.5 fawns per year (based on the Ministry population estimate for R8 of 28,000 to 42,000 mule deer). That's 30,000 fawns born every spring half of which are males. You would have to have an absolutelly awful fawn suvival rate and be shooting nearly all your bucks every year to be unable to replace the annual buck harvest.
the problem is ,after several years of this slaughter the numbers will decline . this is only the second year of these changes .u have your theory ,i have mine
It's impossible to cause a population decline by shooting just bucks unless you take the bucks ratio down well below 5 bucks per 100 does creating a sperm supply shortage, and the R8 buck ratios are all above 20 per 100 does so there is obviously an adequate sperm supply. To cause a population decline you have to reduce the herd female component thus lowering overall fawn production, shooting bucks doesn't effect fawn production, it only effects buck/doe ratios. This is not a theory but a basic fact of deer biology.
Fisher-Dude
11-13-2011, 11:13 PM
Annual mule deer buck harvest is 2500 - 2600 in region 8. Back in the 80s and 90s, it was about 4800 and still sustainable.
Mule deer hunter numbers in the 80s and 90s were between 10,000 and 13,000. Now they are 8,000 - 8,500 hunters.
Fewer hunters and about half the buck harvest. What slaughter is Jeff talking about?
Annual mule deer buck harvest is 2500 - 2600 in region 8. Back in the 80s and 90s, it was about 4800 and still sustainable.
Mule deer hunter numbers in the 80s and 90s were between 10,000 and 13,000. Now they are 8,000 - 8,500 hunters.
Fewer hunters and about half the buck harvest. What slaughter is Jeff talking about?
i dont seem to have the numbers you seem to have.. if those numbers are correct ,then obviously im wrong. then deer should be running everywhere, the comment ,what slaughter is jeff talking about .. is that really necesary ,u trying to get me going or what
coach
11-13-2011, 11:22 PM
Interesting, 6616 and FD, you guys are using science and facts to prove your points. What a novel concept!
Fisher-Dude
11-13-2011, 11:24 PM
It's a fair question Jeff, because you alluded to all the bucks being shot off, which isn't borne out by the facts.
Those numbers are the historical harvest stats for region 8 to which I have access, and are correct.
So, fewer hunters and less harvest. Inventory work indicates high deer numbers and good ratios. Where's the need to curtail the season?
coach
11-13-2011, 11:25 PM
i dont seem to have the numbers you seem to have.. if those numbers are correct ,then obviously im wrong. then deer should be running everywhere, the comment ,what slaughter is jeff talking about .. is that really necesary ,u trying to get me going or what
Fair comment, Jeff. You're not the only one using the "slaughter" word. You're just the guy that keeps responding. Now that you are seeing actual numbers, is your opinion starting to change?
Fair comment, Jeff. You're not the only one using the "slaughter" word. You're just the guy that keeps responding. Now that you are seeing actual numbers, is your opinion starting to change?
reluctantly , but yes
Moosehunter64
11-13-2011, 11:29 PM
I think changing it to two weeks of youth any buck, and two weeks of any buck would be good.
Any buck season is great for people without a lot of experience, but I think having a 4 point season being longer would be great for letting younger bucks mature.
I think the Island should have a 2 point or better season too.
They tried this in a couple area`s on the island and it didn`t help at all.
fireguy
11-14-2011, 01:54 AM
Some things that didn't make the short list for regulation changes this year in region 8 were
Lengthining the mule deer season to nov 15
Opening the archery season from Nov 10 to dec 10
The reasons these were dropped was because the mule deer numbers were not there to support hunting during the peak rut, if these were dropped because the numbers are not there to support hunting during the peak rut, it tells me that there is a numbers issue and we should be doing something about it. The opening of a wolf season is a start but perhaps there should be more looked at, that is why I throw this topic out there for conversation now, not in two years when it will be to late.
dave_fras
11-14-2011, 06:27 AM
man if the gun season was open till the 15th... there would be wayyyyy more mature bucks hitting the ground!... but i would love the bow season part!!!
Gunner
11-14-2011, 07:35 AM
Some things that didn't make the short list for regulation changes this year in region 8 were
Lengthining the mule deer season to nov 15
Opening the archery season from Nov 10 to dec 10
The reasons these were dropped was because the mule deer numbers were not there to support hunting during the peak rut, if these were dropped because the numbers are not there to support hunting during the peak rut, it tells me that there is a numbers issue and we should be doing something about it. The opening of a wolf season is a start but perhaps there should be more looked at, that is why I throw this topic out there for conversation now, not in two years when it will be to late.The reason that rhese were not acted upom is that the Region 8 Biologist feels that Mule deer bucks are too "vulnerable" to a late season hunt,even though we used to have one for years,and both Region 3 and 4 have a later closing date with no problems.Their bucks must be SO much smarter than ours.It has nothing to do with numbers,just another attempt ro stockpile deer by managing ultra conservatively. Gunner
6.5x55mm
11-14-2011, 08:42 AM
My 2 bits is region 8 has no reason not to be open until dec 10 for 4 point only. Certainly there are just as many mature bucks in region 8 as 3. I certainly have not seen any data to justify it. I am guessing is hunter success rate and the biologist personal feelings for the early closer. The positive is there are some massive region 8 bucks out there. As far as the youth season there number are so low they dont impact the resource. Now this wolf thing region 8 has to have an opening. In my 27 years of hunting region 8, this year I saw wolves way to much.
Gunner
11-14-2011, 09:34 AM
My 2 bits is region 8 has no reason not to be open until dec 10 for 4 point only. Certainly there are just as many mature bucks in region 8 as 3. I certainly have not seen any data to justify it. I am guessing is hunter success rate and the biologist personal feelings for the early closer. The positive is there are some massive region 8 bucks out there. As far as the youth season there number are so low they dont impact the resource. Now this wolf thing region 8 has to have an opening. In my 27 years of hunting region 8, this year I saw wolves way to much.
You know it,when I see a pair of wolves at the bottom of my driveway,and hear them 3 or 4 times a winter you know there are plenty around.I am 10 miles from town and in a farming area.Already this fall I have seen fresh wolf tracks in two major mulie wintering areas.This has been going on for the last 5 or 6 years.They must be the wolves that "starved" in the Revelstoke area after the biologists authorised the increase moose kill to protect the caribou. Gunner
Stone Sheep Steve
11-14-2011, 09:36 AM
Not a fan of losing the any-buck season.
My Dad is happier than a pig-in-shite if he puts a 2pt in the freezer. Many others out there feel the same way.
Leave it harmonized with Reg 3 next door.
SSS
carnivore
11-14-2011, 10:16 AM
Well said! Maybe they should change the any buck season to seniors ( 65 and over) and youth only. The young bucks ( hunters) could still bushwack for several kms and bring thier big buck trophies out in pieces.:)
Not a fan of losing the any-buck season.
My Dad is happier than a pig-in-shite if he puts a 2pt in the freezer. Many others out there feel the same way.
Leave it harmoized with Reg 3 next door.
SSS
finngun
11-14-2011, 11:00 AM
[QUOTE=hunter1993ap;1017294]ouch that would hurt. i think i would quit hunting if that happened. not at all--i'm one strange hunter who is happy just nail tasty 2 pointer..
i value young animal meat really high....in my case quality over quantity some other hunter think another way--- fine with me cheers f-g
peashooter
11-14-2011, 11:29 AM
Certain biologists on this site sure make things interesting.
dave_83golf
11-14-2011, 11:29 AM
I would certainly be in for a change to the regs here in region 3... A couple of my hunting partners and I have discussed this a few times....Maybe any buck with Bows all October, and 3 point or better the rest of the time, other than for youth season...
I don't think the regulations need changed at all, as a matter of fact I don't believe a more restrictive regulation would make any difference anyway. What would make a difference would be to kill more wolves. I'm pretty surer hunter harvest is likely only the third highest cause of mortality after wolf kills and highway kills.
I don't think the regulations need changed at all, as a matter of fact I don't believe a more restrictive regulation would make any difference anyway. What would make a difference would be to kill more wolves. I'm pretty surer hunter harvest is likely only the third highest cause of mortality after wolf kills and highway kills.
Ive read all the replies, and I gotta agree with this one.
I keep hearing the word "wolf" from every hunter I talk to.
While I havnt seen one yet, I my findings suggest that deer numbers, and mature bucks seem to be lower than previous years!
Talking with hunters and taxidermists, seems to have been the worst year for big buck harvest in decades????
Certain biologists on this site sure make things interesting.
i would agree
what about closing september all together and open any buck for october and 4 point all of november. Archery dec 1-15. And GOS on wolf all year
That would reileve pressure off region 3+4 during the rut aswell as better opertunity
I know nothing about deer management i'm just throwing an idea out there
mattfreerider
11-14-2011, 12:40 PM
I agree with the 3 point or better for 2 weeks in oct. it would give the small bucks a chance to grow big and there would be more trophys around in the future. same should go for region 4.
peashooter
11-14-2011, 01:03 PM
Here is a thought, why don't we base these desisions on science and fact rather than emotion and fiction.
Here is a thought, why don't we base these desisions on science and fact rather than emotion and fiction.
accually us hunters see whats really going on out there not the pencil pushers.all those numbers fisher dude threw out there where are those numbers from .how do they no how many deer were harvested from reg 8 this year . my group got 6 deer , the biologist arent going to no that . and how about every other hunter who hunted reg 8 .where do they get those numbers ,they pull them outa the air
CanuckShooter
11-14-2011, 01:12 PM
They pull numbers out of the air?? LOL So your saying the current wildlife act doesn't address conservation concerns around deer populations because they have no idea how many deer are being harvested? Interesting.....
They pull numbers out of the air?? LOL So your saying the current wildlife act doesn't address conservation concerns around deer populations because they have no idea how many deer are being harvested? Interesting.....
ya thats what i said .dont put words in my mouth,that i didnt say ..
Gateholio
11-14-2011, 01:27 PM
The whole province should adopt (most of) Reg 2's seasons. Sept 10-Nov 30 Any buck, 2 buck bag limit. Or even any buck into December.
peashooter
11-14-2011, 01:44 PM
Jeff you haven't a clue to the harvest numbers in region 8 and don't pretend that you do.
Jeff you haven't a clue to the harvest numbers in region 8 and don't pretend that you do.
i got one thing to say to u . im not taken your bait .......
Stone Sheep Steve
11-14-2011, 03:01 PM
Ive read all the replies, and I gotta agree with this one.
I keep hearing the word "wolf" from every hunter I talk to.
While I havnt seen one yet, I my findings suggest that deer numbers, and mature bucks seem to be lower than previous years!
Talking with hunters and taxidermists, seems to have been the worst year for big buck harvest in decades????
While I don't get out all that much, it seems like I run into cat sign over 50% of the time....whereas I hardly saw much sign in previous yrs.
From what I've heard and saw cougar numbers in the central OK are up.
SSS
peashooter
11-14-2011, 03:07 PM
Not bait. I don't think we should change an entire regions season because you and your posse saw lots of dead deer in other peoples camp. Mule deer seem to be doing ok for years with the current regs as they are, in fact there is even proof of that even though you have stated that you are not buying into that. Me and my pals shoot every coyote we come across and sometimes there is quite a pile. Looks like a slaughter but there always seems to be lots of yotes around still.
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 03:18 PM
I agree with the 3 point or better for 2 weeks in oct. it would give the small bucks a chance to grow big and there would be more trophys around in the future. same should go for region 4.
100% incorrect. There are more "trophys" (sic) around when there is harvest across all age and sex classes. Proven every time by the science of deer management.
I think some of you guys better get on Google and read a few deer population/herd dynamics studies before you font yourself into the fools' category.
Iron Glove
11-14-2011, 03:19 PM
Well said! Maybe they should change the any buck season to seniors ( 65 and over) and youth only. The young bucks ( hunters) could still bushwack for several kms and bring thier big buck trophies out in pieces.:)
Well, how about 61 and older. :) I can't wait another 4 years.
Not a bad idea though, us old guys are not usually looking for that monster buck and can't haul it out of the damn woods even if we did shoot one. :(
Talking to the "locals" in our area tho' they would really like to see expanded opportunities for mule deer does, damn things are like rats around Princeton and Tulameen. Maybe a limited "resident only" opening.
100% incorrect. There are more "trophys" (sic) around when there is harvest across all age and sex classes. Proven every time by the science of deer management.
I think some of you guys better get on Google and read a few deer population/herd dymnamics studies before you font yourself into the fools' category.
are u insulting other members ....
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 03:50 PM
Do you feel insulted?
Sitkaspruce
11-14-2011, 03:51 PM
reluctantly , but yes
huh. did not no that
i would agree
accually us hunters see whats really going on out there not the pencil pushers.all those numbers fisher dude threw out there where are those numbers from .how do they no how many deer were harvested from reg 8 this year . my group got 6 deer , the biologist arent going to no that . and how about every other hunter who hunted reg 8 .where do they get those numbers ,they pull them outa the air
are u insulting other members ....
Watch out Jeff, you switch opinions faster than most people change their undies.....
One post you reluctantly agree to posted info and admit you did not know that there used to be a longer season and things were fine, then as soon as someone jumps on your bandwagon, you switch back to the "the sky is falling"........
Amazing how a few on here just cannot get it past their minds that there is actually a pretty good game department in this province and they actually do care about the animals we hunt.
Stop thinking emotionally and start trying to understand population dynamics.....there is lots out there to read.
Cheers
SS
accually us hunters see whats really going on out there not the pencil pushers.all those numbers fisher dude threw out there where are those numbers from .how do they no how many deer were harvested from reg 8 this year . my group got 6 deer , the biologist arent going to no that . and how about every other hunter who hunted reg 8 .where do they get those numbers ,they pull them outa the air
This is a common misconception. The biologists actually get a lot of field time and lots of it's in choppers where they really can see what's out there, and their time is spent in all areas of the region as well. We hunters often tend to equate what we see in their own little hunting space to be an indicator of conditions region wide which is often a very misleading assumption. The harvest numbers on non-CI species come from the harvest questionaires which is deemed to be about 80 to 85 % accurate.
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 04:30 PM
Val Geist says BC's harvest stat numbers are among the best in North America. I'll trust his opinion before I'll trust Jeff's.
Watch out Jeff, you switch opinions faster than most people change their undies.....
One post you reluctantly agree to posted info and admit you did not know that there used to be a longer season and things were fine, then as soon as someone jumps on your bandwagon, you switch back to the "the sky is falling"........
Amazing how a few on here just cannot get it past their minds that there is actually a pretty good game department in this province and they actually do care about the animals we hunt.
Stop thinking emotionally and start trying to understand population dynamics.....there is lots out there to read.
Cheers
SS
u say watch out jeff ,,what should i watch out for exactly
Val Geist says BC's harvest stat numbers are among the best in North America. I'll trust his opinion before I'll trust Jeff's.
i never said trust my opinion .i was giveing my thoughts to the thread . some of u guys just cant stop with the no it all attidudes .and like to try to make people that dont agree with u ,look stupid .
frenchbar
11-14-2011, 04:43 PM
u say watch out jeff ,,what should i watch out for exactly
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_f_RLAodpvU_AVJ6s9WG1-q9dG6LW5AeG1MpmBxAkoS3Cw-Yq_g
Do you feel insulted?
i really couldnt give a crap ..but i seem to get booted from this site with even a hint of an insult ,i guess the golden child is an exception
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_f_RLAodpvU_AVJ6s9WG1-q9dG6LW5AeG1MpmBxAkoS3Cw-Yq_g
theres no foot in my mouth . and thers a few guys on here that no im on thin ice and are just trying to get me booted permantly .well try again cuz i aint biteing today
peashooter
11-14-2011, 05:08 PM
Your theories have more holes in them than your tires do!
stugatz
11-14-2011, 05:17 PM
This really reminds me of the useless gun registry: register every gun because it will make society safer(fail!!!!).....close certain areas to hunting opportunities because it will help deer numbers, without scientific proof (uber fail!!!!)
Sitkaspruce
11-14-2011, 05:46 PM
theres no foot in my mouth . and thers a few guys on here that no im on thin ice and are just trying to get me booted permantly .well try again cuz i aint biteing today
It has nothing to do with being in thin ice.....Nope that's all you.:mrgreen:
I get a good laugh at people who speak with words like "Slaughter" without actually thinking about what is being done with the wildlife in BC.
I will ask again, if it is such a slaughter, than why is there still lots of bucks running around??? You guys killed 6, is that the norm or is that a slow year???
It's the same old "Chicken Little Sky is Falling" syndrom and it usually comes from a person who hunts a couple hundred square miles and thinks that the whole region is the same.
Believe it or not, game management in BC is actually pretty good and the guys and gals who look after our animals are pretty passionate about what they do. Its the politicians that usually screw up things by listening to the Chicken Little folks who seem to know it all in their little space that they hunt and live.
We have to have faith in our wildlife staff and believe in how they manage our wildlife. Its the Politicos and GO who make it a mess.
Cheers
SS
nolan-sawka
11-14-2011, 05:51 PM
4 point or bigger...any buck bow only
dave_fras
11-14-2011, 05:54 PM
nolan u would say any buck by bow!... maybe u should start shooting bigger ones!... clean it up buddy hahaha... by the way..i love u way u patched the hole in your ceiling hahahaha... jk we should hunt this weekend!
Last Year winter was hard on the mule deer, but I must say we have to establish a youth season as usual but go back to the 4 point or better for the last 2 weeks of october that would weed out alot of hunters towards the end of the month and give me my quality time in the bush without the crowds. I did see some nice mulies this year but took a whitetail instead.
coach
11-14-2011, 06:09 PM
Last Year winter was hard on the mule deer, but I must say we have to establish a youth season as usual but go back to the 4 point or better for the last 2 weeks of october that would weed out alot of hunters towards the end of the month and give me my quality time in the bush without the crowds. I did see some nice mulies this year but took a whitetail instead.
So your end goal is to turn people off of hunting so there's more for you?
So your end goal is to turn people off of hunting so there's more for you?
man, some people like to twist what people say.. thats what my wife does
coach
11-14-2011, 06:17 PM
How did I twist it Jeff? He said a shorter "any buck" season would weed out a lot of hunters. How do you interpret that? Frankly, I have no desire to egg you on. I don't derive any pleasure from it. I actually thought you were coming around when you accepted some scientific information last night. I went for a hunt today, and when I tunes back in to HBC, your back on the rant. Why not relax and listen to what others have to say? We can all learn something here.
dingdongdenny
11-14-2011, 06:22 PM
totally agree with 2 point or better hunt on the island.Have only once shot spike buck needed meat that year, but on the whole spikes are not considered bucks you could knock them over the head with the butt of your gun save the bullet.One year i passed up 12 two point bucks and hummed and hawed on a 3x3 had a month to go and only one tag,hawed to long fog came in and kept looking for the hat rack
Gunner
11-14-2011, 06:23 PM
Last Year winter was hard on the mule deer, but I must say we have to establish a youth season as usual but go back to the 4 point or better for the last 2 weeks of october that would weed out alot of hunters towards the end of the month and give me my quality time in the bush without the crowds. I did see some nice mulies this year but took a whitetail instead.
Last winter was an easy one for Region 8 mulies,how was it in Maple Ridge?When we get a hard winter here I'll know it all I have to do is look outside!I saw more mulie does with fawns this spring,all of them in awesome shape than I have seen in 12 years.With the wet spring and summer we had here there was more green than they could possibly eat for summer grazing.Mule deer numbers have been going up sice 97 in the North OK.There is no change needed in the any buck season.A lot of the people calling for restrictive seasons spend anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weels in Region 8 in the fall.Spend 12 years up here watching mule deer through all four seasons,it might change your minds. Gunner
coach
11-14-2011, 06:30 PM
totally agree with 2 point or better hunt on the island.Have only once shot spike buck needed meat that year, but on the whole spikes are not considered bucks you could knock them over the head with the butt of your gun save the bullet.One year i passed up 12 two point bucks and hummed and hawed on a 3x3 had a month to go and only one tag,hawed to long fog came in and kept looking for the hat rack
What would be the benefit to the health of the herd?
How did I twist it Jeff? He said a shorter "any buck" season would weed out a lot of hunters. How do you interpret that? Frankly, I have no desire to egg you on. I don't derive any pleasure from it. I actually thought you were coming around when you accepted some scientific information last night. I went for a hunt today, and when I tunes back in to HBC, your back on the rant. Why not relax and listen to what others have to say? We can all learn something here.
coach , thats one of the most twisted statements ever ,he never said any of those words or statements u made.u absolutly twisted the heck out of it
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 06:47 PM
Last Year winter was hard on the mule deer, but I must say we have to establish a youth season as usual but go back to the 4 point or better for the last 2 weeks of october that would weed out alot of hunters towards the end of the month and give me my quality time in the bush without the crowds. I did see some nice mulies this year but took a whitetail instead.
So you'd rather see the end of hunting in BC by further decreasing hunter numbers. You do realize that it is your hunting that will end, don't you?
So you'd rather see the end of hunting in BC by further decreasing hunter numbers. You do realize that it is your hunting that will end, don't you? hhm holy extrapolation. Just a tad on the doomsday scenario. If we don't kill lots, all hunting will cease?
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 07:07 PM
hhm holy extrapolation. Just a tad on the doomsday scenario. If we don't kill lots, all hunting will cease?
If we further decrease hunter numbers as the poster was suggesting (and that's what he wants, nothing to do with conservation issues or "killing lots"), we're running full steam down the path to the end of hunting in BC. What socialist government will cater to a handful of people who kill animals? When's the next Ujjahl going to be calling the shots and bow to the pressure from suburbanite antis again and outlaw hunting?
You know it too, but like to deny it, for some strange reason.
coach
11-14-2011, 07:22 PM
go back to the 4 point or better for the last 2 weeks of october that would weed out alot of hunters towards the end of the month and give me my quality time in the bush without the crowds.
Jeff - explain to me what this means?
So your end goal is to turn people off of hunting so there's more for you?
well it sure doesnt say that
coach
11-14-2011, 07:41 PM
Come on, Jeff. You can do better than that. What is your interpretation of what he said?
im not going to read anying into it ,,he said what he said theres no other way to read it ..thats what twisting somenes words are all about
Steeleco
11-14-2011, 07:48 PM
First off, we all need to play nice. Just because we have different views, we are all hunters in the end.
That said, I spent the May long weekend in Tulamean with my family and Elkhounds family. We saw not one deer less than 300 in and around town. We hunted all the nearby "honey holes" looking for bears, we saw 2 and they were tiny. Of the 300+ deer we saw maybe 20 bucks. Now fast forward to Sept. Back to the same spots, not one deer!! Where did they go, who the hell knows but I know where they were.
So in the end, this completely uneducated "self biologist!!" thinks there's too many does. And LEH mulie does should be allowed during the entire GOS not just in Nov AFTER they have been bread. It's got to help increase the buck/doe ratio over time.
buckboy007
11-14-2011, 07:51 PM
I think go back to two weeks of any buck instead of a month, then give youths start of hunting season not the late give the deer a rest before bow season
100% incorrect. There are more "trophys" (sic) around when there is harvest across all age and sex classes. Proven every time by the science of deer management.
I think some of you guys better get on Google and read a few deer population/herd dynamics studies before you font yourself into the fools' category.
FD how come areas like "the arizona strip" which is LEH for mulies, consistently produces giant bucks every year?????????????
Mark,
How come Region 3 which has the most liberal muley seasons in any jurisdiction in North America produces Giant Bucks every year??????
Don't bitch and moan because you didn't see many big bucks this year. That has nothing to do with the state of mule deer. That has every thing to do with mule deer behavior. They are sticking tight to the timber. There are more big bucks down in the OK than there ever has been. If your manager would get off his ass and harmonize with Region 3 and open it up to Dec 10th, you'd see some of those big bucks but.....you have to rely of weather that rarely every comes by the time your measily season ends.
I always find it amusing when hunters have a $hity season and they think the sky is falling. See it all the time on sites like MM. There's no big bucks, they are all dead. And then the next year a series of storms hit during the hunting seasons and hunters get to hunt in snow and all of a sudden, it is a record year for big bucks. Bucks don't get big in one year. You don't go from no big bucks to a ton of big bucks in one year. The fact is when hunting conditions are tuff, very very few bucks are spotted and killed. When hunting conditions are good, lots of bucks are killed. Just flip through Muley Crazy Magazine from year to year and you will see what I am talking about.
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 08:28 PM
FD how come areas like "the arizona strip" which is LEH for mulies, consistently produces giant bucks every year?????????????
Habitat and weather. They have mild winters and great habitat. Up here, we have to keep our deer below carrying capacity (60% is the best) to ensure adequate nutrition for rut-weary bucks to make it through the winter. In order to get age class, we need to keep deer numbers at that 60% mark through harvest across age and sex classes - we can't do it shooting mature bucks alone.
Furthermore, young animals are the "worst" offenders on winter range, showing up early and leaving late compared to the mature bucks who stay higher in balls-deep snow and who head up early in the spring. Younger animals deprive mature animals of feed by browsing for more months on winter range.
Having a disproportionate number of younger animals by restricting harvest on yearlings thus spells trouble for winter range and in turn this affects mature bucks because they don't get the nutrition they need to A.) make it through the winter after the rut and B.) produce gagger racks.
SimilkameenSlayer
11-14-2011, 08:32 PM
how much do free range cattle deprive mule deer of food?
just askin .....
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 08:33 PM
I think go back to two weeks of any buck instead of a month, then give youths start of hunting season not the late give the deer a rest before bow season
"Back to 2 weeks?" It was never 2 weeks, ever. Used to be 21 days.
And the poaching in region 8 with a longer any buck in region 3 was out of hand. The COs fully favour 3 and 8 having the same month-long any buck season.
ETA - read your regs. There is no late season youth mule deer any more. Yeah, I know, like many bow boys you want it all to yourself with no youths to shoot "your" buck (or scare it away!). More social bullshit that is completely unrelated to mule deer conservation.
Gunner
11-14-2011, 08:33 PM
Mark,
How come Region 3 which has the most liberal muley seasons in any jurisdiction in North America produces Giant Bucks every year??????
Don't bitch and moan because you didn't see many big bucks this year. That has nothing to do with the state of mule deer. That has every thing to do with mule deer behavior. They are sticking tight to the timber. There are more big bucks down in the OK than there ever has been. If your manager would get off his ass and harmonize with Region 3 and open it up to Dec 10th, you'd see some of those big bucks but.....you have to rely of weather that rarely every comes by the time your measily season ends.
I always find it amusing when hunters have a $hity season and they think the sky is falling. See it all the time on sites like MM. There's no big bucks, they are all dead. And then the next year a series of storms hit during the hunting seasons and hunters get to hunt in snow and all of a sudden, it is a record year for big bucks. Bucks don't get big in one year. You don't go from no big bucks to a ton of big bucks in one year. The fact is when hunting conditions are tuff, very very few bucks are spotted and killed. When hunting conditions are good, lots of bucks are killed. Just flip through Muley Crazy Magazine from year to year and you will see what I am talking about. This is exactly right.I can show you some good bucks now that weren't on their intermediate range on Nov.10th,the last day of the season.They were in timber so thick you couldn't get in to them. Gunner
Mark,
How come Region 3 which has the most liberal muley seasons in any jurisdiction in North America produces Giant Bucks every year??????
Don't bitch and moan because you didn't see many big bucks this year. That has nothing to do with the state of mule deer. That has every thing to do with mule deer behavior. They are sticking tight to the timber. There are more big bucks down in the OK than there ever has been. If your manager would get off his ass and harmonize with Region 3 and open it up to Dec 10th, you'd see some of those big bucks but.....you have to rely of weather that rarely every comes by the time your measily season ends.
I always find it amusing when hunters have a $hity season and they think the sky is falling. See it all the time on sites like MM. There's no big bucks, they are all dead. And then the next year a series of storms hit during the hunting seasons and hunters get to hunt in snow and all of a sudden, it is a record year for big bucks. Bucks don't get big in one year. You don't go from no big bucks to a ton of big bucks in one year. The fact is when hunting conditions are tuff, very very few bucks are spotted and killed. When hunting conditions are good, lots of bucks are killed. Just flip through Muley Crazy Magazine from year to year and you will see what I am talking about.
Dana, dont crap on my post, I was just shooting a question at FD's statement.
Im certainly not whining, I had a great deer season :) not done yet either.
As for your statement about there being more big bucks in the okanagan than ever.....I would strongly disagree there, as would every shed hunter in region 8.
Winter t-cams, scouting and shed hunting has been pitiful here in the past 2 years!!!!!
Mark,
How has my shed season's been the last few years? Just because deer change spots don't mean they suddenly died. Find those new spots. You have to adapt or else you will be left like chicken little every year. And as for the BS about the OK, I happen to know of several giants produced there this season. The hayday in the OK is not over, it's just begun.
stand down everyone .the deer whisperers are disagreeing
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 09:01 PM
how much do free range cattle deprive mule deer of food?
just askin .....
It depends. If the cattlemen are using a high number of range units, it can have a big effect. If the range is in shitty shape to start, it can have a big effect too.
They've co-existed for a lot of years, so it's hard to blame the cattle when some coastie doesn't see a 160 class mule deer on his annual trip to the Okanagan on a full moon weekend. :wink:
SimilkameenSlayer
11-14-2011, 09:13 PM
It depends. If the cattlemen are using a high number of range units, it can have a big effect. If the range is in shitty shape to start, it can have a big effect too.
They've co-existed for a lot of years, so it's hard to blame the cattle when some coastie doesn't see a 160 class mule deer on his annual trip to the Okanagan on a full moon weekend. :wink:
informative reply fd, thanks
Mark,
BTW, where's the pics and story of that wide buck you got?
Dana, dont crap on my post, I was just shooting a question at FD's statement.
Im certainly not whining, I had a great deer season :) not done yet either.
As for your statement about there being more big bucks in the okanagan than ever.....I would strongly disagree there, as would every shed hunter in region 8.
Winter t-cams, scouting and shed hunting has been pitiful here in the past 2 years!!!!!
UH Oh.............. sounds like trouble in paradise. I knew you two were going to break up sooner or later. LOL. really loud.
UH Oh.............. sounds like trouble in paradise. I knew you two were going to break up sooner or later. LOL. really loud.
dino ,i was waiting to hear your thoughts on this thread.. im getten a good laugh
GoatGuy
11-14-2011, 09:42 PM
Just to throw this out there for comment, what would you think of these changes.
1. leave the any buck season for youth only.
Change the any buck season to a 3 point or better for October and
and 4 point from Sept 1 to 30th and November 1 to 30th.
or
2 leave the any buck season for youth only
Change the any buck season to a 3 point or better for 2 weeks in October and the rest of the season 4 point only.
This would, in my opinion make for better hunting for everyone after the first year.
Most people don't care if they shoot a 3 or 4 point - in fact you will find many hunters who want a spike or two point
Yearling bucks are better table fare and most hunters are meat hunters
You'd end up with very, very few 3 and 4 pts after the season unless you killed a pile of hunters off (>60%)
You'd end up with a poor age distribution and likely statiscally no bucks that would make it past 3 years of age - no 'trophy bucks'
There's no reason for a 4 pt season in september, the harvest was never high - people hunt in October in the Okanagan
You'd end up killing off a bunch of hunters (but probably not so many to make a difference in the number of trophy bucks)
There'd be less money for conservation
There'd be less money for management
So fewer hunters, fewer big deer and less money for management.
Can't really think of much else.
FD how come areas like "the arizona strip" which is LEH for mulies, consistently produces giant bucks every year?????????????
Besides what FD says it's also probably got to do with a very conservative harvest level, similar to why the West Kootenay produced big bull elk under the former LEH regime. Ultra restictive harvest levels with lots of escapement is the only true way to full on manage for trophies (like Utah), but there's a very high cost, it rules out a lot of opportunity, recreation, and meat availability. It's management for the elite trophy hunter and not the general hunting public and tends to kill off a lot of peoples interest in hunting altogether.
how much do free range cattle deprive mule deer of food?
just askin .....
Some for sure, especially if there's overgrazing, but cattle are grazers and deer are browsers, so cattle impact elk more than deer.
GoatGuy
11-14-2011, 09:52 PM
Another option would be to knock the any buck season down to two weeks in october as an option so people can shoot their small ones. I'm not against having an any buck season, I just have seen the deer numbers going down over the years.
Due to habitat. Hunting season has had zero effect on mule deer numbers. Changing the season will not help the deer population.
After one season of 3 point as your young buck season or a shortened any buck season, there should be more bigger deer and better hunting for everyone.
I think the youth season is great and should remain, it might mean the rest of us have to target bigger bucks but that I don't think is that big a deal.
There will be more younger bucks and far fewer 3 and 4 pt bucks unless a bunch of people quit hunting.
Just ask the guys in the peace they went to a 1 deer every 2 years and a 3 week 4 pt season and it never brought them the big bucks they dreamed of including the manager that promoted it. And they spent decades before they realized it wouldn't work.
Where I hunted this year I should have seen many more deer than I did and a whole lot more bucks. That said I did see 4 points that I could have taken, I was looking for something bigger and I really don't want to take a 2 point. A friend of mine was hunting the other day and saw 50 does and only 4 small 2 points in the bunch, and this is at the end of our season when there should be more bucks mixed in.
More deer has nothing to do with the current buck hunting regime. Want more deer, make more deer food. Also, shoot some does to keep the age down and keep the herd more productive so the does are throwing more fawns.
Buck:doe ratios in the Okanagan are well above conservation minimums, including 8-15.
I would rather be proactive than reactive when it comes to stuff like this and look at making our hunting opportunities better.
Proactive is habitat enhancement. Reducing hunting opportunity won't create more deer and won't create more big deer. If you want lots of big bucks push for LEH on MD or create more deer through habitat enhancement and ecosystem restoration. Or if you want to see bigger deer hunt harder.
Most of your issues with mule deer seem to be social. Nothing that's related to conservation.
Want more deer and more bucks deal with the habitat.
SimilkameenSlayer
11-14-2011, 09:56 PM
Some for sure, especially if there's overgrazing, but cattle are grazers and deer are browsers, so cattle impact elk more than deer.
thanks
i have observed that cattle tend to have more a browsing type of feeding pattern on the range, rather than the grazing they do when in a valley field.
btw, i'm not against free-range cattle farming.
aggiehunter
11-14-2011, 10:14 PM
Region 3 better buck up and follow our seasons in Region 8 or they are gonna be crying the blues when we all move there...seriously if you guys can't get one of those old stinkers before Nov. 10th then you should hang up your guns. Coach....what's this bullshit about restrictive seasons.....cheesh...count the days....
coach
11-14-2011, 10:28 PM
Region 3 better buck up and follow our seasons in Region 8 or they are gonna be crying the blues when we all move there...seriously if you guys can't get one of those old stinkers before Nov. 10th then you should hang up your guns. Coach....what's this bullshit about restrictive seasons.....cheesh...count the days....
Aggie - personally, I like having both an early and late bow season. It works great for my personal methods of hunting. What you will never see me do is put my personal agenda ahead of what's best for the health of the herd and for my fellow hunters. If a longer rifle season interferes with my bow season (which restricts others who don't use the same method) and it won't adversely affect the animals, then so be it. You feel the same way?
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 10:32 PM
Region 3 better buck up and follow our seasons in Region 8 or they are gonna be crying the blues when we all move there...seriously if you guys can't get one of those old stinkers before Nov. 10th then you should hang up your guns. Coach....what's this bullshit about restrictive seasons.....cheesh...count the days....
In that case we better cancel the Nov 25 - Dec 10 late BOW ONLY season in region 8. No reason to hunt later than that, eh? If you can't get an old stinker by Nov 10, you better hang it up Ern.
GoatGuy
11-14-2011, 10:33 PM
thanks
i have observed that cattle tend to have more a browsing type of feeding pattern on the range, rather than the grazing they do when in a valley field.
btw, i'm not against free-range cattle farming.
cattle browsing can be a symptom of poor range conditions- not a good thign.
Gateholio
11-14-2011, 10:37 PM
Region 8 should go with the Reg 3 seasons, and the under utilized late bow seasons should be made into an any weapon, youth only season.
GoatGuy
11-14-2011, 10:37 PM
Region 3 better buck up and follow our seasons in Region 8 or they are gonna be crying the blues when we all move there...seriously if you guys can't get one of those old stinkers before Nov. 10th then you should hang up your guns. Coach....what's this bullshit about restrictive seasons.....cheesh...count the days....
Conservation fits into this picture where?
coach
11-14-2011, 10:46 PM
Aggie - we can hunt with our bows from September 1st until Dec 10, with a brief closure between Nov 11 and 24th. I'd say that's a fair amount of opportunity. If we could harmonize with R3, things would be that much better!
Region 8 should go with the Reg 3 seasons, and the under utilized late bow seasons should be made into an any weapon, youth only season.
Making no sense to me gates???
If region mirrored reg 3 (gun season til dec. 10) we wouldnt have a late bow only season????
All gun season is "any weapon season"
How could nov. 25- dec. 10 be a youth only season if our season was open for rifle til dec. 10 like region 3?????
And for the record, the late bow season is not under utilized, there are tons of guys running around with bows for that season, ive seen it worse than the gun season sometimes!!!!!!
Fisher-Dude
11-14-2011, 10:57 PM
It just looks like lots of bow boys. In reality, they are congregated to where the deer have migrated lower down, and snow limits travel into the high country, which is pretty bleak for deer sightings by Nov 25.
It just looks like lots of bow boys. In reality, they are congregated to where the deer have migrated lower down, and snow limits travel into the high country, which is pretty bleak for deer sightings by Nov 25.
Obviously deer have migrated down, obviously hunters will congregate there......lots of bow boys= lots of utilization, not underutilized as Gates stated......I was just saying....
Gateholio
11-14-2011, 11:17 PM
Making no sense to me gates???
If region mirrored reg 3 (gun season til dec. 10) we wouldnt have a late bow only season????
All gun season is "any weapon season"
How could nov. 25- dec. 10 be a youth only season if our season was open for rifle til dec. 10 like region 3?????
And for the record, the late bow season is not under utilized, there are tons of guys running around with bows for that season, ive seen it worse than the gun season sometimes!!!!!!
I got mixed up with our Nov 30 cut off here. But what you posted sounds good. The solution is to just run the GOS season to Dec 10. All hunters using any weapon can participate. Make Nov30-Dec 10 a 4 pt season if there is a conservation concern. No real need for a special bow season, bow hunters will have months to kill a deer.
Stone Sheep Steve
11-15-2011, 08:31 AM
While I don't hunt near as much as you Mark, I do finally get some time in the late bow seasons. I "think" I saw one person bowhunting a couple of yrs ago and that's it.
I guess they've all migrated across the lake into the "black" timber.....or following you around!
SSS
6.5x55mm
11-15-2011, 09:00 AM
Dana I agree with you 100%. Mark you really think a extension from Nov 10th to Dec 10th in region8 would have that much impact? Why?
hunter1993ap
11-15-2011, 09:46 AM
Mark,
How has my shed season's been the last few years? Just because deer change spots don't mean they suddenly died. Find those new spots. You have to adapt or else you will be left like chicken little every year. And as for the BS about the OK, I happen to know of several giants produced there this season. The hayday in the OK is not over, it's just begun.
dana, how often do you hunt the okanagan? there is always big deer killed but its also a huge area.. i have to agree with mark the numbers of big bucks seem to be down. and all the shed hunters i know, from down south past oliver to north of kelowna never found any big sheds in the last couple of years.. the okanagan valey area is winter range and has been forever. if there are big deer around they should be here? should they not?
coach
11-15-2011, 10:18 AM
There are so many issues at play here, it's hard to keep track. Here's what I'm reading:
- There aren't enough bucks. Guys are seeing tons of does, but no bucks.
I dispute this one, because I've seen bucks almost every time out this season. More this year than in previous years. It could be I'm just fortunate and am the first to admit my small sampling is hardly scientific.
- There aren't enough trophy bucks.
Somehow Mark, Patdel and others seem to be able to kill big bucks every year. I chalk that up to the fact they work extremely hard to find that kind of success. They understand mule deer habits and are willing to hold off pulling the trigger until they find the buck they are after. Fireguy has a buck in his avatar that is around the 200 inch mark. One issue with the trophy mentality is that once you kill the buck of your dreams, it gets harder to find a bigger one in subsequent years. That's what makes them trophies. I can't agree with changing regulations so that it becomes easier to find big deer. I think the overall health of the herd has to come first.
Goatguy - I believe you indicated earlier that too many small bucks on the winter range can negatively impact mature buck survival. For clarification purposes, did I read this correctly?
Mark and Dana - you two are the mule deer gurus that most of us like to get our HBC information from. Both of you are shed hunters. Have either of you seen periods of time (maybe 2 or 3 years in a row) where shed sizes seemed smaller and then seen things return to normal in subsequent years. I would have to think environmental conditions (including overcrowding on the winter range) would be factors in this.
There are too many hunters and that affects the quality of hunt - Hopefully we are all on a similar page that we should do what we can to grow our sport and realize the importance of hunter recruitment and retention. FD made it clear what will happen if our numbers get too small. All of that said, it's never fun to hunt an area with crowds of other people. IMO, shorter seasons cause us to all be out in the bush at the same time, contributing to this problem. From a personal (social) viewpoint, my family enjoys deer meat. I like to hunt with my daughter. Success to me is putting an animal in the freezer. Between Oct 1 and 15, it's pretty easy to find an "any buck" in R8. After Thanksgiving, it gets more difficult. Depending on weather, the first 10 days of November could produce a 4 point. Although it's easier to find bucks in the late bow season, I figure if I'm going to shoot a small buck, I'd rather do it when I know they are going to taste best. This means October is going to be a busy month with hunters in the Okanagan. Shortening the "any buck" season would only make this worse. Harmonizing with R3 would spread the pressure out.
The deer are all getting "slaughtered" - IMO, this is a ridiculous statement, especially when so many people are complaining about how many does they see. I think we all need to consider the words we choose. The antis would love to hear us talking like this.
I think there's been some great discussion in this thread. As usual, I've learned from many of the posts. Thanks, fireguy, for initiating the conversation.
huntersam
11-15-2011, 10:31 AM
ive seen only a couple big bucks taken out of kelowna this year between me and my buddies, the rest is all small bucks because we just havnt been seeing anywere as many bucks as usuall. but in previous years, everyone has always taken a nice buck. theres no were near as many deer around as there used to be, the any buck season needs to go.
also my ole man talked to a conservation officer and they told him that kelowna this year has the most hunters compared to number of deer in all bc. this any buck season is rediculous, the deer hunting is going down hill, there getting slaughtered!
to many ,,way to many wannabe ,no it all biologists on here.. i no squat about it , but i do no a bit about deer .ive been hardcore hunting for 30 years .and coach if i wanna use the statement slaughter , dont call it redicolous .its my opinion so leave it at that.i could but didnt call any of your posts rediculous. i may speak my mind ,but i dont put down your comments .
ive seen only a couple big bucks taken out of kelowna this year between me and my buddies, the rest is all small bucks because we just havnt been seeing anywere as many bucks as usuall. but in previous years, everyone has always taken a nice buck. theres no were near as many deer around as there used to be, the any buck season needs to go.
also my ole man talked to a conservation officer and they told him that kelowna this year has the most hunters compared to number of deer in all bc. this any buck season is rediculous, the deer hunting is going down hill, there getting slaughtered!
I don't hunt the Okanagan so I can't comment on whether there's fewer deer but I do know this, and it's already been pointed out but needs to be restated,,,,shooting bucks of any kind will "not" cause a decline in the population unless the buck doe ratio is driven down well below 5 bucks per100 does, and the surveys indicate buck doe ratios of over 20 bucks/100 does. If the deer population is down it's not because of buck hunting or the any buck season. The only thing that will cause the population to decline rapidly is female mortality and the low recruitment rates that result, ie; road kills, winter kill, wolf kills, etc. So eliminating the any buck season won't help if there really is a problem. I suspect more deer are killed by wolves than by hunters and I also believe there's probably more deer killed by vehicles than by hunters, and these two major causes of mortality are not selective regarding the sex or age of the deer.
So your end goal is to turn people off of hunting so there's more for you?
No I'm not discouraging anybody from hunting.
No I'm not discouraging anybody from hunting.
finally,u responded ..i backed u up on your post as much as possible .then u dissapeared
coach
11-15-2011, 01:24 PM
No I'm not discouraging anybody from hunting.
That's great to hear, Rock. Hopefully you can understand how I came to that conclusion by reading what you posted:
go back to the 4 point or better for the last 2 weeks of october that would weed out alot of hunters towards the end of the month and give me my quality time in the bush without the crowds.
Is this not accurate on how you feel? How is weeding out different from discouraging?
coach
11-15-2011, 01:28 PM
to many ,,way to many wannabe ,no it all biologists on here.. i no squat about it , but i do no a bit about deer .ive been hardcore hunting for 30 years .and coach if i wanna use the statement slaughter , dont call it redicolous .its my opinion so leave it at that.i could but didnt call any of your posts rediculous. i may speak my mind ,but i dont put down your comments .
Jeff, the posts I've learned from have been made by people such as Goatguy, 6616, FD, Dana, Mark, Sitkaspruce, StoneSheepSteve, BCRams and others. None of them seem like wannabe, know it all biologists to me. If you disagree with one of my posts, by all means, call it ridiculous. I'll learn from my mistakes. I might even change my opinion.
OutWest
11-15-2011, 01:41 PM
ive seen only a couple big bucks taken out of kelowna this year between me and my buddies, the rest is all small bucks because we just havnt been seeing anywere as many bucks as usuall. but in previous years, everyone has always taken a nice buck. theres no were near as many deer around as there used to be, the any buck season needs to go.
also my ole man talked to a conservation officer and they told him that kelowna this year has the most hunters compared to number of deer in all bc. this any buck season is rediculous, the deer hunting is going down hill, there getting slaughtered!
That's just what happens when you cruise around on your quad above Kelowna. It's hit or miss.
We've seen more big bucks this year than in any year previous. And we saw lots before! Lots of video of bucks ranging from 170-190. The population is strong and in good hands with the people in charge. I'll trust them before a bunch of guys who are upset there weren't any deer in the cut block they just drove into.
Sitkaspruce
11-15-2011, 01:42 PM
to many ,,way to many wannabe ,no it all biologists on here.. i no squat about it , but i do no a bit about deer .ive been hardcore hunting for 30 years .and coach if i wanna use the statement slaughter , dont call it redicolous .its my opinion so leave it at that.i could but didnt call any of your posts rediculous. i may speak my mind ,but i dont put down your comments .
Jeff
You keep avoiding my questions.....
I believe you and your hunting group took 6 bucks in region 8 this year. Correct me if I am wrong.
If you did, were you part of this so called "Slaughter" or were you not??? Did your hunting party enjoy themselves?? I believe a couple kids were involved as well, which is great and it is good to see you getting them out there and enjoying the outdoors. But if you are saying it is a "slaughter", what are you saying to the kids who are out enjoying themselves??
I just cannot see the logic in the so called "Slaughter" that is reportedly happening if there is lots of bucks to kill. Who cares if they are spiker/two points.
Huntign for all of us to enjoy, whether it is to shoot little or big bucks, does or even calves in region 7b, having hunters put deer in the back of their truck and taking it home is the main goal of most hunters, so who are any of us to judge.
Region 8, along with region 5 have the most protected muley seasons and still people want more restrictions............
No wonder we will never win our fight with the antis, GO's and politicos, we cannot ever see eye to eye on seasons, type of hunting style and how game should be managed on a internet hunting site.
And no Jeff, I am not pushing your buttons, just asking the questions that need to be answered (and I am also curious as how you came up with the word 'Slaughter":mrgreen:l).
Cheers
SS
aggiehunter
11-15-2011, 01:47 PM
I love it when the GOS ends for mulies in Region 8 ad you get 17 pages of panicking rifle hunters who want more, more, more!! It's awesome reading...you can feel there tension and dissapointment oozing forth. Guys like FD slamming bowhunters for no apparent reason. Oh wait...I wait...I'll give you a reason to slam bowhunters FD. Bowhunters have proposed that the bow season for mulies start the after the GOS...Nov. 12th till Dec. 20th...the have been requesting that for several years...each year it gets shelved. This year...and get this....the biologists rational..."there is not a surplus of deer to allow this season"...so maybe Marks right..theres just too many of us bowhunters and we're gonna shoot to many....NOT! Of course that was the same reason we were denied an early 6pt bow season for Elk....no surplus...plus another comment about bowhunters I won't repeat as it shows his complete misunderstanding of the bowhunt and bowseasons.
coach
11-15-2011, 02:13 PM
Are we not all just "hunters", Aggie? Why should small groups receive special treatment under the regulations? I'm asking a serious question and look forward to a respectful answer.
Jeff
You keep avoiding my questions.....
I believe you and your hunting group took 6 bucks in region 8 this year. Correct me if I am wrong.
If you did, were you part of this so called "Slaughter" or were you not??? Did your hunting party enjoy themselves?? I believe a couple kids were involved as well, which is great and it is good to see you getting them out there and enjoying the outdoors. But if you are saying it is a "slaughter", what are you saying to the kids who are out enjoying themselves??
I just cannot see the logic in the so called "Slaughter" that is reportedly happening if there is lots of bucks to kill. Who cares if they are spiker/two points.
Huntign for all of us to enjoy, whether it is to shoot little or big bucks, does or even calves in region 7b, having hunters put deer in the back of their truck and taking it home is the main goal of most hunters, so who are any of us to judge.
Region 8, along with region 5 have the most protected muley seasons and still people want more restrictions............
No wonder we will never win our fight with the antis, GO's and politicos, we cannot ever see eye to eye on seasons, type of hunting style and how game should be managed on a internet hunting site.
And no Jeff, I am not pushing your buttons, just asking the questions that need to be answered (and I am also curious as how you came up with the word 'Slaughter":mrgreen:l).
Cheers
SS
sorry but im not going to get into it with u , im short tempered , and enjoy this site . just respect that we all have our opinions ,
peashooter
11-15-2011, 03:30 PM
that medicine has mellowed you out
That's just what happens when you cruise around on your quad above Kelowna. It's hit or miss.
We've seen more big bucks this year than in any year previous. And we saw lots before! Lots of video of bucks ranging from 170-190. The population is strong and in good hands with the people in charge. I'll trust them before a bunch of guys who are upset there weren't any deer in the cut block they just drove into.
It would be awsome if you would post the vids of these big bucks.
OutWest
11-15-2011, 05:13 PM
It would be awsome if you would post the vids of these big bucks.
And have a gut pile hunter like you following me around? No thanks.
frenchbar
11-15-2011, 05:16 PM
And have a gut pile hunter like you following me around? No thanks.
lol........
Last winter was an easy one for Region 8 mulies,how was it in Maple Ridge?When we get a hard winter here I'll know it all I have to do is look outside!I saw more mulie does with fawns this spring,all of them in awesome shape than I have seen in 12 years.With the wet spring and summer we had here there was more green than they could possibly eat for summer grazing.Mule deer numbers have been going up sice 97 in the North OK.There is no change needed in the any buck season.A lot of the people calling for restrictive seasons spend anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weels in Region 8 in the fall.Spend 12 years up here watching mule deer through all four seasons,it might change your minds. Gunner
just so you know I do live in beaverdell to as well.
Gunner
11-15-2011, 05:51 PM
just so you know I do live in beaverdell to as well.
That's good Rock,then you know the winter wasn't that bad,at least up here.My area gets a lot more snow than down south and we had only average snowfall and no real cold.Winter survival wasn't a problem.One of these days we'll have another winter like 97 and there will be a dieoff because of lack of winter range for the population as it stands.That's why the idea of stockpiling deer doesn't work.Winter carrying capacity determines survival levels,not how many bucks we shoot.
HARTCORE HUNTER
11-15-2011, 05:54 PM
James, I fully back you on this thread. Slaughter is the word for those 2 points. Oct is a shooting gallery out there.
boxhitch
11-15-2011, 06:01 PM
If there was any issue with the weather this year, it was the late melt down this spring. Lots of ground was still ball deep in snow that is usually some of the first to bare off and provide early spring feed.
That may have stressed the mid winter feed areas, But have heard no reports of carcass sightings
everyones opinions seem to be based on how well they did this year. I reluctentlly agree with Mark, It has been the most mentally challanging year for me to find any bucks let alone any shooters. The animals this year for me are just not there like they have been in the past, Ive seen a hundred does to every one buck. Ive seen alot of cat tracks and coyote tracks but no wolf sine. I have my own theory on this and try to adapt like Dana says to what I think I have to do to have success. Thats easy for guys like dana because the country he is in is surrounded by high mountains and valley bottoms, the deer are easier to find when you have that option especially in a wetbelt where you get alot of snow. Region 8 doesnt have the high mountains and basiclly no snow this year to push the animals down to more tradional areas, My trailcams have been set up high and low all year and they took the least amount of pics this year since Ive been doing the trailcam thing. I dont know if there was a winter kill or the lack of snow this year was a factor. I wonder if the any buck season had anything to do with it or all the cat and coyote tracks. I even thought the moon had something to do with it. Whatever it is I am going to keep looking so I get an answer to my own theorys and learn from what has been the toughest year Ive ever had. The hunting season is not over for me in region 8 just because I cant shoot muleys anymore. Trying to find and figure out these animals is what keeps me coming back for more, I will be out looking until I find them and I wouldnt have it any other way. This is just my opinion and not a shot at Mark or Dana.
And have a gut pile hunter like you following me around? No thanks.
How did we all know you would never show any big buck vids . You cant show what you dont have. Your to easy bud.
Sonof000Buck
11-15-2011, 06:16 PM
Well put it this way..
I went out for a week..
saw 94 deer..
2 were bucks..
2 deer, were male..
92 were does..
I say bring the Any buck for 2 Months + youth season.. then 3+ better rest of the year..
And for the end of October make 2 weeks of any Doe.
IMO that sounds great.. lots of families to feed with this bullcrap buck to doe, nobodys shooting nothing.
Sonof000Buck
11-15-2011, 06:17 PM
And look at Vancouver Island..
Any buck, all year round..
+ Shotgun only near millbay for does + bucks..
I usually 20 deer a day.. 4 of them bucks..
So definately i'd keep that in mind..
coach
11-15-2011, 07:02 PM
Sonof000buck, I can't dispute that 92 of those deer were antlerless because I wasn't there. But - how can you be sure all of them are female? 50% of the fawns you saw should have been bucks. If they were born this year, they would still be antlerless - but not does. Of the mule does I've seen over the last several seasons, the 1.5 fawns per doe stat seems pretty accurate.
fireguy
11-15-2011, 07:06 PM
I love it when the GOS ends for mulies in Region 8 ad you get 17 pages of panicking rifle hunters who want more, more, more!! It's awesome reading...you can feel there tension and dissapointment oozing forth. Guys like FD slamming bowhunters for no apparent reason. Oh wait...I wait...I'll give you a reason to slam bowhunters FD. Bowhunters have proposed that the bow season for mulies start the after the GOS...Nov. 12th till Dec. 20th...the have been requesting that for several years...each year it gets shelved. This year...and get this....the biologists rational..."there is not a surplus of deer to allow this season"...so maybe Marks right..theres just too many of us bowhunters and we're gonna shoot to many....NOT! Of course that was the same reason we were denied an early 6pt bow season for Elk....no surplus...plus another comment about bowhunters I won't repeat as it shows his complete misunderstanding of the bowhunt and bowseasons.
The funny thing aggie is that I started this and I hunted with archery gear all season with the exception of one day that I only brought my rifle with me. The real reason behind the question of season change is the harmonization of seasons. As you pointed out "there is not a surplus of deer to allow this season" noted at both extending our rifle season to Nov. 15th and opening up archery season earlier. If seasons are harmonized, say with region 3, what would it take to get region 8 closer to region 3 dates, or do the region 3 guys want to get their season closer to region 8 dates?
I have been just screwing around so far this year looking forward to the late archery season in region 8 as I like that season the best.
Fisher-Dude
11-15-2011, 07:16 PM
And have a gut pile hunter like you following me around? No thanks.
Pure gold Nick! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
FD how come areas like "the arizona strip" which is LEH for mulies, consistently produces giant bucks every year?????????????
A few others have touched on this but I will give a little more tidbits regarding the Strip. Picture this, everyone who wants too can apply to hunt for trophy bucks on the Strip. That includes us Canadians if you so wish. AZ residents do get a slight edge in the draw, but every hunter in the USA or anywhere else can apply too. What do ya think the draw odds are? Do you want that kind of system in BC where you might get to see some big deer but you never get to hunt them. Many of the true giants killed on the Strip every year are done by Auction Tag holders. They have a full year to hunt. From Aug 1 to July 31. Do ya think that the average Joe blow that draws a tag for one of those 2 units gets that long to hunt. Nope! Do you want a system where the rich get to do all the hunting year after year and the average guy gets to throw the dice and hope in 30 or 40 years he might get drawn? Be careful with which you wish for.
nolan-sawka
11-15-2011, 08:22 PM
And have a gut pile hunter like you following me around? No thanks.
hahahahaha
nolan-sawka
11-15-2011, 08:28 PM
nolan u would say any buck by bow!... maybe u should start shooting bigger ones!... clean it up buddy hahaha... by the way..i love u way u patched the hole in your ceiling hahahaha... jk we should hunt this weekend!
hahahahha yeah right i got a good one this year....yeah you saw that hey hahaha good ol tin .....im always down your the one who never calls anymore you homo
nolan-sawka
11-15-2011, 08:30 PM
How did we all know you would never show any big buck vids . You cant show what you dont have. Your to easy bud.
he's got them thats for sure!!
B]Mark and Dana[/B] - you two are the mule deer gurus that most of us like to get our HBC information from. Both of you are shed hunters. Have either of you seen periods of time (maybe 2 or 3 years in a row) where shed sizes seemed smaller and then seen things return to normal in subsequent years. I would have to think environmental conditions (including overcrowding on the winter range) would be factors in this.
I have been an avid shed hunter for over 25 years. Mark just got into shed hunting in the last 5 or so. I can tell ya from my experience I have had some years where I have picked up several hundred sheds on one hillside and then the next year find nothing on that hillside. Deer move. Sometimes you get lucky and find multiple sheds off the same buck, other times you never find another shed off that buck. Does that mean he's dead? Nope! It could very well mean he is just in a different area. I've seen winters where there is such a low snow pack down low that bucks never show up on the winter range. I've had years where I'm finding sheds above 1700 metres in elevation, no where near the winter range.
The question I will pose to the OK shed hunters is, are ya finding a $hitload of deadhead on the winter range? If you ain't finding a ton of deadheads, then they ain't dead. I would say they are just wintering where you ain't lookin'. And I also know for a fact that many shed hunters in the OK are tired of competition, so they ain't posting pics of what they find on the internet and they ain't telling other shedders what they are finding. Nothing worse than having a good area creamed out but a bunch of internet sleuths.
Dana I agree with you 100%. Mark you really think a extension from Nov 10th to Dec 10th in region8 would have that much impact? Why?
Did I say that??? While it wont wipe out our deer herd, a ton of big bucks would get killed the first couple years, would make for some crappy shed hunting!
Mark and Dana - you two are the mule deer gurus that most of us like to get our HBC information from. Both of you are shed hunters. Have either of you seen periods of time (maybe 2 or 3 years in a row) where shed sizes seemed smaller and then seen things return to normal in subsequent years. I would have to think environmental conditions (including overcrowding on the winter range) would be factors in this.
Ive only been at it for about 5 years, so I cant really say. The most Ive found from 1 buck is 3 years, lots of sheds from 2 years in a row....in all cases the sheds were nearly identical.
And have a gut pile hunter like you following me around? No thanks.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh dont show him nick, we know he's fishing here!
Pure gold Nick! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
X2....
A few others have touched on this but I will give a little more tidbits regarding the Strip. Picture this, everyone who wants too can apply to hunt for trophy bucks on the Strip. That includes us Canadians if you so wish. AZ residents do get a slight edge in the draw, but every hunter in the USA or anywhere else can apply too. What do ya think the draw odds are? Do you want that kind of system in BC where you might get to see some big deer but you never get to hunt them. Many of the true giants killed on the Strip every year are done by Auction Tag holders. They have a full year to hunt. From Aug 1 to July 31. Do ya think that the average Joe blow that draws a tag for one of those 2 units gets that long to hunt. Nope! Do you want a system where the rich get to do all the hunting year after year and the average guy gets to throw the dice and hope in 30 or 40 years he might get drawn? Be careful with which you wish for.
I merely asked a quo to challenge FD's theory on big buck production, I certainly didnt wish for it, nor do I want or need it!
I like the level playing field, and equal opportunity that we all have here in BC.
Sitkaspruce
11-15-2011, 10:48 PM
sorry but im not going to get into it with u , im short tempered , and enjoy this site . just respect that we all have our opinions ,
Fair enough, just try not to post stuff that gets others a little up in the blood pressure dept and then go closed mouth. A healthy discussion can be good for the soul.......
Thanks for your reply.
Cheers
SS
OutWest
11-16-2011, 05:58 PM
How did we all know you would never show any big buck vids . You cant show what you dont have. Your to easy bud.
Dino, I understand it can be a little hard for a guy like yourself, who constantly begs for muley knowledge on how to shoot a big buck and then ends up shooting the first little 4 point he sees, to believe that a guy in his early 20s could possibly harvest large muleys year after year. I share it with guys like Mark and FD, not guys like you who run around from gut pile to gut pile.
OutWest
11-16-2011, 06:02 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh dont show him nick, we know he's fishing here!
X2....
Don't worry Mark I won't bite. There's enough detectives on here as it is! Nice to finally run into you this year ;)
.
Dino, I understand it can be a little hard for a guy like yourself, who constantly begs for muley knowledge on how to shoot a big buck and then ends up shooting the first little 4 point he sees, to believe that a guy in his early 20s could possibly harvest large muleys year after year. I share it with guys like Mark and FD, not guys like you who run around from gut pile to gut pile.
i no dino and seen some of the racks hes shot , im pretty sure u dont no what your talking about there fella
So you've seen the 150 class giants that he has??? Wow, that must have been quite the sight eh? ;)
So you've seen the 150 class giants that he has??? Wow, that must have been quite the sight eh? ;)
dana ,i no your the only guy capable of shooting trophy mulies, EGO MANIAC alright . what a joke
SHAKER
11-16-2011, 06:29 PM
LOL 20 pages now! this has been some interesting opinions and a little shit sling'n ta boot.
This have been a fairly hot topic in my shop for the last couple of days too. Let's keep it going on here.
todbartell
11-16-2011, 06:41 PM
http://www.celebritydetective.com/jerry-springer.jpg
Mallardman23
11-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Speaking of changes, why do they have youth season the same time as archery in September. As a bow hunter I don't really like the idea of youth shooting rifles in the bush when it is bow season. It is already challenging enough with out rifles going off.
Speaking of changes, why do they have youth season the same time as archery in September. As a bow hunter I don't really like the idea of youth shooting rifles in the bush when it is bow season. It is already challenging enough with out rifles going off.
u can look at that both ways, why do they have bow season the same time as youth season .i dont feel safe with my kid in the bush with arrows flying everwhere.its already challenging enough with the youngsters shooting there first animals.
Mallardman23
11-16-2011, 08:10 PM
I beleive that archery was always there before youth season came along, i may be mistaken though. They should have archery, youth & then gos. Also, the point I was making was archery is a silent hunt and rifle shooting defeats that purpose.
So you've seen the 150 class giants that he has??? Wow, that must have been quite the sight eh? ;)
thanks for the compliment. Im pretty sure that there's more members than just me that like to shoot the deer I shoot every year. Your the king Dana.LOL.
Dino, I understand it can be a little hard for a guy like yourself, who constantly begs for muley knowledge on how to shoot a big buck and then ends up shooting the first little 4 point he sees, to believe that a guy in his early 20s could possibly harvest large muleys year after year. I share it with guys like Mark and FD, not guys like you who run around from gut pile to gut pile.
If your parents find out how your acting on here I think your going to be grounded from the truck and computer kid.
frenchbar
11-16-2011, 08:38 PM
u can look at that both ways, why do they have bow season the same time as youth season .i dont feel safe with my kid in the bush with arrows flying everwhere.its already challenging enough with the youngsters shooting there first animals. you guys have got to be kidding! FEEL UNSAFE FROM FLYING ARROWS ...IVE HEARD IT ALL NOW LOL
you guys have got to be kidding! FEEL UNSAFE FROM FLYING ARROWS ...IVE HEARD IT ALL NOW LOL
i was just making a point , and now your making me laugh .u dont get sarcazm
Fishhound
11-16-2011, 08:50 PM
No more archery only seasons, just because you choose a bow or crossbow to hunt with does not mean you should have a special season.
The youth only season is far more important, keep it
frenchbar
11-16-2011, 08:53 PM
IMO.archery only seasons should be scrapped ..you chose to hunt with arrows you should just follow the rest of the regulations just like everybody else...booming rifles from youths ruined my hunt ..what a joke!!!
If your parents find out how your acting on here I think your going to be grounded from the truck and computer kid.
Dino,
I know for a fact that kid has way more impressive bucks on his wall than your 150 class giants. He's also got you pegged to a tee! For a guy that begs for all the latest info on how to kill monster muleys, you would think you would actually apply that info one of these days. "Chasing gut piles" is just classic. :) :) Good luck for the rest of the season. Oh wait, you are already tagged out. $hitty for you!
coach
11-16-2011, 09:20 PM
u can look at that both ways, why do they have bow season the same time as youth season .i dont feel safe with my kid in the bush with arrows flying everwhere.its already challenging enough with the youngsters shooting there first animals.
Awesome, Jeff ! Almost shot my pants laughing again !
coach
11-16-2011, 09:21 PM
IMO.archery only seasons should be scrapped ..you chose to hunt with arrows you should just follow the rest of the regulations just like everybody else...booming rifles from youths ruined my hunt ..what a joke!!!
I agree 100%, Frenchie. And I like hunting with my bow.
frenchbar
11-16-2011, 09:23 PM
I agree 100%, Frenchie. And I like hunting with my bow.
Ive never done it ..but i wouldnt need a special season to get a animal..
Gateholio
11-16-2011, 09:28 PM
Looks like this thread is run it's course....
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