How can you tell if its a shiras moose???

[untilthelastbeat]

Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on how you can tell a shiras moose from a canadian moose. and where thier located in BC.

[Slee]

No shiras moose in BC

[bighornbob]

No shiras moose in BC

X2

Boone and Crockett calls the Canadian border the line between the two species. I believe SCI uses the Trans Canada as a border. The only people that use that is the guide outfitters so they can sell hunts for dinky southern moose as Shiras hunts to the us guys so they can get their name in the SCI record book.

Bhb

[BiG Boar]

I thought that was the same as a syrah moose?

[tomahawk]

Actually BC has 3 varieties of moose, the Shiras, Canadian and Alaska/Yukon moose. Shiras moose are found in the Kootenay region and in the US.

[boxhitch]

and I suppose we have 5 sheep too ?
What a crock

[Darksith]

and I suppose we have 5 sheep too ?
What a crock
so your saying that the rocky mountain sheep and the california sheep are one and the same?

[tomahawk]

and I suppose we have 5 sheep too ?
What a crock

Their are those that are educated, study and know about the ungulates of BC and then there are those that talk without knowledge of the subject!!

[untilthelastbeat]

ok i was just wondering because i saw guide outfitters in the kootenays advertising shiras moose hunts so i was wondering what determines the difference between them and "canadian moose". but if it is to sell americans on the hunt i get it.. so any moose shot in BC acording to boone and crocket is classified as "canadian moose"? (not including the buffer zone between northern BC and alaska/yukon)

[kako99]

Tomahawk is right BC does have 3 varieties of moose.

[BillBraskii]

No such thing as a shiras moose....... its like a unicorn.

[Jagermeister]

If you shoot a moose in Idaho near the Canadian border, it is a Shiras, but if you shoot one in the East Kootenays, it is a Canadian Moose. I think not! If you look at this link, you will see that Shiras extend well into southwestern BC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alces_alces_NA.svg
The first time I saw any evidence of moose in the Okanagan was on Last Mountain about 1970.

[SimilkameenSlayer]

i thought there was only two kinds of moose .... legal or illegal for hunting.

[tomahawk]

i thought there was only two kinds of moose .... legal or illegal for hunting.

Hahahaaha.....How true, in the end if it is legal its good to go!!

[dana]

SCI has had no biological/scientific reason for calling the southern moose in BC Shiras other than the petitioning of the GOABC members that want to sell their small moose for a higher price. If you look at the the science, Canadian moose moved south following the huge fires of the 20's and 30's. Many southern First Nations didn't even have a word of moose in their own languages. As the Canadian Moose migrated south of course they met the Shiras and interbred. So at best, the moose in the south are Canadian/Shiras mixes that have been that way for generations. I'm surprised the outfitters haven't petitioned the SCI to come up with a 'new' breed to sell their clients. The SCI has done that with other species in recent times.

[boxhitch]

Sure, even MOE says there are three , but considering the mito differences , some say not.

[Brambles]

Moose south of the Transcanada Hwy are Shiras

[Singleshotneeded]

Shiras moose, what's next, cabernet and merlot moose? lol

[evhunter]

The moose here in the EK are about 2/3rds the size of moose in Region 5, 6 or 7 at best (body weight). Body shape is comparatively different as well. Definitely a smaller sub species of moose,... Shiras.

[elkdom]

Actually BC has 3 varieties of moose, the Shiras, Canadian and Alaska/Yukon moose. Shiras moose are found in the Kootenay region and in the US.

yes BC has 3 distinct sub-species of Moose !

but BC Hunting Regs does NOT discriminate or recognize these 3 varieties of Moose ,

as all BC moose tags are designated only as " MOOSE " when purchasing a tag !

[CanuckShooter]

All I know for sure is the blacker they are the better they taste!!! :-)

[tomahawk]

All I know for sure is the blacker they are the better they taste!!! :-)

What about moose? Do you find them that way too?

[CanuckShooter]

What about moose? Do you find them that way too?

I was talking about moose ;-) , not sure where your going with this line of questioning......

[huntcoop]

All I know for sure is the blacker they are the better they taste!!! :-)

What colour is the meat?

[CanuckShooter]

What colour is the meat?

No difference in colour....just always found some tidbit of truth in the 'old wives' tale that the best eating moose is the blackest one you can find.

[Darksith]

Just to shed some more light on the subject, there are definately 3 species of moose found in BC, to argue that point is silly since science can prove it, and it is a fact plain and simple. It is impossible to tell the difference between the 3 species in the field and all 3 will breed successfully between each other. So for anyone to say that there are no Shiras in BC is not only ridiculous but plain ignorant. The BC record book does not distinguish between the 3 b/c it takes more than the eye to tell the difference, thus all moose in BC are called Canadian moose. There is no line that one can say this is the boundry, so why bother arguing man made boarders and boundries?

[abbyfireguy]

Check their passports! LOL

[Mulehahn]

Just to shed some more light on the subject, there are definately 3 species of moose found in BC, to argue that point is silly since science can prove it, and it is a fact plain and simple. It is impossible to tell the difference between the 3 species in the field and all 3 will breed successfully between each other. So for anyone to say that there are no Shiras in BC is not only ridiculous but plain ignorant. The BC record book does not distinguish between the 3 b/c it takes more than the eye to tell the difference, thus all moose in BC are called Canadian moose. There is no line that one can say this is the boundry, so why bother arguing man made boarders and boundries?

I agree that there are three species of moose so to me that is mute, but how is that we draw a line for deer and say on this side its a blacktail and on the other its a mule deer. I know the regs don't differentiate, but there is a biological difference and the record books classify them differently. Can anyone honestly tell me that guys don't walk the harrison lake line or up near pemberton hoping that that the big 4 point muley doesn't take one more step.

[The Dude]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alces_alces_NA.svg

[The Dude]

Moose stop at the border.....gimme a break.

[steel_ram]

The only real difference is the line drawn on the map for the convienience of designating trophy classifications . Size, antler growth has more to do with the habitat they live in. Same as grizzlies, moose if they wander too far across the magical BC - Alaska/Yukon border they suddenly become of a different variety. Not sure the term different "species" truly applies.

[.330 Dakota]

Well, I am not educated on the differences in moose,,but being originally from Ontario, I can tell you that the moose out east are way bigger than anything I have seen in Region 5,,,seen quite a few dead and alive and I find them quite small. I myself was wondering if they were a Shiras variety.

[barry1974w]

No difference in colour....just always found some tidbit of truth in the 'old wives' tale that the best eating moose is the blackest one you can find.

The best tasting I've shot yet was so light it was almost blonde.... As a side note the largest bodied and smallest bodied bulls I've shot were in the same area....

[BCMinistry]

Once u go black u never go back 'Uh'

[budismyhorse]

Just a variety or sub species....The kootenay moose are for sure smaller than anything found up north....no one could dispute that..... There are also different sized sheep in the koots..... Golden horned rams are half the body size of black horned mine rams....

[dana]

According to Geist, there is actually very little biological reasons that distinguish the 3 sub-species other than size. The further north you go the bigger some critters get. The further south you go the small some critters get. So in biological terms, a moose is a moose is a moose. Just some are small because of where they live and some are big because of where they live.

[The Dude]

Region 8 Moose.
It had "I'm a Shiras Moose according to SCI" tattoo'd on the back of his neck:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/Hunting/106_0692.jpg

[2chodi]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/moose.pdf

[SKADman]

There are 3 varieties of moose in BC. The Shiras moose (otherwise known as Wyoming moose) are smaller. They could indeed be found in southern BC. Haven't seen a moose yet that needed a passport to cross the border.

[bugler]

Dana has it right. Biologically they are essentially the same. Kootenay moose will successfully breed with Alaskan moose and create moose offspring. Their size is a result of adaptation to their environment. Here in the EK we have small Canadian moose according to B&C and P&Y (respectable organizations, imo) or very large Shiras moose according to SCI (which I have little respect for). A few years back our regional biologist did some work to have them deemed Shiras. SCI bought it, price of hunts went way up and boom.....LEH.

[6616]

Dana has it right. Biologically they are essentially the same. Kootenay moose will successfully breed with Alaskan moose and create moose offspring. Their size is a result of adaptation to their environment. Here in the EK we have small Canadian moose according to B&C and P&Y (respectable organizations, imo) or very large Shiras moose according to SCI (which I have little respect for). A few years back our regional biologist did some work to have them deemed Shiras. SCI bought it, price of hunts went way up and boom.....LEH.

That's about how it went, it was all about economics and had little to do with the biology of moose.

[GoatGuy]

The reality of shiras moose is that they don't exist in BC. In the south east kootenays they might be a bit smaller than the rest of BC but that's as much juice as you could squeeze out of it, even for the high fenced hunters. There are distinct differences being habitat and resulting antler growth and body size even from the trench in the EK to the moose over the hill in the WK.

To sum it up:

"Mean body weights of adult cow moose captured in the 3 areas of the East Kootenay (Flathead, Upper Elk, and Spillimacheen valleys) as estimated by regression
Kootenay Region moose population review from body measurements (Hundertmark and Schwartz 1998) did not differ among areas (F = 1.39, 35 df,
P = 0.26), and averaged 439 kg (K. Poole, unpublished data), greater than the supposed maximum body weight for bull Shiras moose (370 kg; Bubenik 1998)."

Unfortunately, in wildlife management and conservation there are two distinct approaches: those which make decisions using science and those which make decisions based on beliefs. In this case SCI and GOABC uses their 'beliefs' to rationalize a higher price and a mystical new animal for the high fenced hunters record book. Surprising, no.

[6616]

Opponents of the spike/fork moose GOS like to point out that only about 50% of Canada Moose yearlings have spike/fork antlers that would make them vulnerable in the s/f season, but that this percentage is 70% to 80% with Shrias Moose thus making a very much larger percentage of the yearling population vulnerable during a s/f season. The claim is thus that the s/f season is not sustainable in the Kootenay's or maybe even the entire area south of the Trans Canada highway due to the potential for an over-harvest of yearlings. I don't know where this information came from or if it's true or credible, but it makes little difference when no one can actually prove that the moose south of the TCH are actually Shiras Moose. The whole thing is a can of worms riddled with private agendas and little to no scientific knowledge.

[festerstix]

You can tell its a Shiras Moose, because you're in Wyoming.

[Hamza]

So would the moose south of Golden around canal flats be considered Shiras moose. Does anyone know if the Moose hunting is good in this area.

[rocksteady]

So would the moose south of Golden around canal flats be considered Shiras moose. Does anyone know if the Moose hunting is good in this area.

Unicorns for spike fork..

A buddy in golden had an leh for a big bull last fall... hunted hard.. could not even find a track.. and he is a seasoned hard core hunter

[358mag]

And remember now that Justin and the Liberals are in control , all Shiras moose that cross the border into Canada will not need a passport and will automatically be called Canada Moose. But all Canada Moose trying to cross into the USA to become Shiras Moose with out a valid passport will be turned back at the US border .;-);-)