Do the hunting regs need more clarification?

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

I was wondering if you guys think the Hunting Regs need more clarification?There seems to be so much debate on a wide range of topics and a lot of gray area in between.So what changes need to be made and does ''Core '' need to go in depth much deeper on some topics.

[Steeleco]

Change is needed in many areas of the book, but I fear the changes will only become more ambiguous and won't take effect in my lifetime.

[Fisher-Dude]

I think if people took a moment to understand the spirit of the regs instead of spending hours looking for loopholes to legitimize their poaching, there wouldn't be any issue.

[CanuckShooter]

I think if people took a moment to understand the spirit of the regs instead of spending hours looking for loopholes to legitimize their poaching, there wouldn't be any issue.

LOL, are you calling HBC hunters poachers??? One step over the line sweet Jesus........

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

Fisher I have to disagree with you.I think most people are honest and want to do the right thing.I think a lot of new hunters get '' Buck Fever'' when they see game and when a moose or elk etc is moving and they are worried they wont get a shot they end up pulling the trigger without properly identifying it.I think it is a good idea for a lot of new hunters to find them self a mentor who can teach them .I met guys in the bush that didnt even know how to gut a deer.There should be more guys doing seminars on some of the principles of the modern hunter.Many of the old guys cant adapt to all the regulations when back in the day you saw bone and you pulled the trigger.

[Fisher-Dude]

LOL, are you calling HBC hunters poachers??? One step over the line sweet Jesus........

Coming from Captain Loophole himself, I say 'nuff said.

[Fisher-Dude]

Fisher I have to disagree with you.I think most people are honest and want to do the right thing.I think a lot of new hunters get '' Buck Fever'' when they see game and when a moose or elk etc is moving and they are worried they wont get a shot they end up pulling the trigger without properly identifying it.I think it is a good idea for a lot of new hunters to find them self a mentor who can teach them .I met guys in the bush that didnt even know how to gut a deer.There should be more guys doing seminars on some of the principles of the modern hunter.Many of the old guys cant adapt to all the regulations when back in the day you saw bone and you pulled the trigger.


I think the regs need more simplification rather than more clarification, BHF. We've created a shitload of rules and regs when we should have more GOS, more "any buck/bull", and less restrictive crap to appease Indians and guide outfitters. Open seasons up, get rid of stupid antler restrictions, open the whole province at the same time to spread pressure and harvest, and you get right back to the hey-days of hunting that those old timers experienced back in the day. Seems they had all this great hunting with monster bucks and long seasons, while we piled a bunch of restrictions on and now everyone is bitching about not finding what they want to shoot. What's different? Not the hunters, not the deer, just the volumes of legislation that have been dumped on us.

[Moosehunter64]

I think the Regs are pretty simple already.People just read to much into them and interprit them to mean something else than what they actually say.

[Ubertuber]

Reading comprehension is what's needed, not clarification.:icon_frow

[CanuckShooter]

Have to agree with post #7...even if it hurts!!

[reach]

There are some questions that seem to come up over and over again, such as:

- Seasons are antlered/antlerless only, so why are genitals allowed as "proof of sex"? Whether the animal has male or female genitalia has nothing to do with whether it's legal to shoot. The focus should be on the antlers if that's the way they're regulating it. Genitals alone don't necessarily make it legal so why allow them as an option?

- If you're using antlers for proof of sex, they must be left "attached to the carcass". Need a definition of "carcass" so we know exactly what is OK - skull plate, whole head, head attached to spine, ???

- Tripalm bull moose - see recent thread about definition of brow palm. Current diagram is labelled "brow palm" on the right side even though it likely wouldn't meet the definition by the "vertex of the deepest bay" measurement.

- How much processing are you allowed to do in the field, in camp, at your cabin, etc. If deboning for a pack out is OK... why not full cut & wrap? It's just a matter of more pieces. Where is the line drawn?

- Grazing leases / cultivated land - the regs say you're not allowed to hunt on "cultivated land" or "a grazing lease while occupied by livestock". Definition of those terms might be useful. You could say that a replanted tree farm (a logging cut block) is "cultivated land" but obviously those are considered legal. An explanation of grazing lease vs. other types of cattle range might be helpful too.

While we're building the wish list... a sidebar on how to correctly, absolutely determine whether a given piece of land is private or Crown would be extremely helpful. As we all know, you can't rely on the presence or absence of signs, fences or gates. Some web links or gov't contact info would be very useful. An explanation of exactly what both your and the land owner's responsibilities are would be great. (For example: suppose there's a block of private land with no fences, signs, roads or development. Can you still be charged with trespassing/illegal hunting if there's absolutely no indication on site that it's private?)

I'm sure there are plenty more and we should bump this thread whenever some new controversy comes up.

[Barracuda]

alot of people like to claim or play dumb so they can do questionable things while hunting.
Most dont want to know the rules because they feel the rules hinder success or enjoyment.

Even if they know better they still claim ignorance or try to say that the rules are just guidlines and only follow the ones they like.

the regs are pretty simple to understand allready if one spends the time but to make sure no one can claim ignorance I say dumb it down so much that a person has no excuse for not understanding the rules and make the wildlife act as well as the forest range and practices act part of the core.

[Steeleco]

Have to agree with post #7...even if it hurts!! I too think like you, don't tell anyone I agree with FD, might soil my rep LOL

[SHAKER]

I think the regs need more simplification rather than more clarification, BHF. We've created a shitload of rules and regs when we should have more GOS, more "any buck/bull", and less restrictive crap to appease Indians and guide outfitters. Open seasons up, get rid of stupid antler restrictions, open the whole province at the same time to spread pressure and harvest, and you get right back to the hey-days of hunting that those old timers experienced back in the day. Seems they had all this great hunting with monster bucks and long seasons, while we piled a bunch of restrictions on and now everyone is bitching about not finding what they want to shoot. What's different? Not the hunters, not the deer, just the volumes of legislation that have been dumped on us.


Second best thing I have read today! Spread the word F-D. I can't tell you what the best is cause I'll get banned for inapropriate content.

[brazen]

I think if people took a moment to understand the spirit of the regs instead of spending hours looking for loopholes to legitimize their poaching, there wouldn't be any issue.

Ya I would like to see the reasons why behind the rules, it would help my understanding, like why you can't shoot 6 hours after a plane ride. Why seasons start and end when they do for the animals. Why Region 8 August Black Bear is private land only. etc. Plus a full colour reference image catalogue of all the animals living here. And yeah whether you can debone onsite or not. etc.

[Gun Dog]

alot of people like to claim or play dumb so they can do questionable things while hunting.
Most dont want to know the rules because they feel the rules hinder success or enjoyment.

Even if they know better they still claim ignorance or try to say that the rules are just guidlines and only follow the ones they like.
Regulations (and laws) are written for the convenience of the government, not it's citizens. The recent butchering in camp thread shows that. It's harder for the COs to confirm the harvest (species, sex and number) if it's cut, wrapped and in a freezer. So it's forbidden. That's what rubs me the wrong way -- the "guilty until proven innocent" theme that many regulations and officers follow.

[jeff]

i will put my 2 cents in on this one . i would have to say the regs are written in hard to understand language ,kinda just like my union handbook , alota words and wording that can be easily misunderstood. they should just re word it so a elemtery kid can understand,

[keithb7]

So here's my input. I am totally new to this hunting thing. I study the regs lots so I don't break any laws. This needs some clarification:
What is the difference between White Tails of Antlerless or Either Sex classification? Confusing to me.

[Fisher-Dude]

So here's my input. I am totally new to this hunting thing. I study the regs lots so I don't break any laws. This needs some clarification:
What is the difference between White Tails of Antlerless or Either Sex classification? Confusing to me.

Antlerless season means you can shoot whities with no antlers. Either sex season means you can shoot both antlerless and antlered whitetails.

[finngun]

[QUOTE=Moosehunter64;1007473]I think the Regs are pretty simple already.People just read to much into them and interprit them to mean something else than what they actually say.

you gotta be kidding?/------

bighunterfish-Do the hunting regs need more clarification? no---more clarification--just re write whole thing...ask any co-s how many guestions they have to answer every hunting season?

good answer from fisher-dude.......10+

[Jelvis]

No quads used back when people were hunting in the 60's either, old trucks, cars and legs. Now it's boys toys and nothing wrong with that but way more road hunting.
Now, road warriors everywhere driving and not walking.
That's the main reason too expensive for the low income families.
Jel .. Gas and stuff very expensive now and lots are just barely making with home costs .. your up 2 date.
Be glad you can get out locally for a meat deer or two cuz that's what most can afford

[butthead]

yah Deer Open bucks
moose open bulls
cant get any simpler
they have the regs so f___ up my lawyer cant even understand it

[Jelvis]

What would happen if you opened gos for any bull moose in BC.? OK.
Breeding bullz shot off at an uncontrolled rate and that is NOT going 2 happen. Period!
Jel .. ( the Bio's know already ) I'm glad we have the Ministry running it lol .. ok

[Everett]

yah Deer Open bucks
moose open bulls
cant get any simpler
they have the regs so f___ up my lawyer cant even understand it[/QUOTE]

The problem is not that your lawyer can't understand it. The problem is the asshat wrote it.:mad:

[Fisher-Dude]

What would happen if you opened gos for any bull moose in BC.? OK.
Breeding bullz shot off at an uncontrolled rate and that is NOT going 2 happen. Period!
Jel .. ( the Bio's know already ) I'm glad we have the Ministry running it lol .. ok


How did we manage to avoid killing all the moose when we had twice as many hunters and long GOS any bull for 40 years?

[Jelvis]

No quads with winches for one, access was far less into summer and wintering range
No beetle kill for another logged off like a moon scape
Not as many road kills way less traffic
Population of humans in sixties 1.2 million in BC now close to 4 mil
Need more?
Jel vee haff vayz

[Fisher-Dude]

No quads with winches for one, access was far less into summer and wintering range
No beetle kill for another logged off like a moon scape
Not as many road kills way less traffic
Population of humans in sixties 1.2 million in BC now close to 4 mil
Need more?

None of that has anything to do with hunting seasons.

Logging blocks make the best moose habitat on earth 5 - 8 years after harvest. There were no moose in the Okanagan until it was logged. Do you have any stats on the number of road kills, or is it more conjecture?

[boxhitch]

Reading comprehension is what's needed, not clarification.:icon_frowToo true. even some of the posts in this thread misquote the regs, no wonder there are puzzles.
Also I don't see how the season could be any more clear than they are. They do differ from region to region or zone to zone, but any one specific location only has one set of dates, clearly laid out. So keep the regs handy and refer to them as you drive from area to area. simple.
Some of the definitions may be unspecific to all the 'what if's, but for 99% of the folks at 99% of the time they work. To try to cover all of the 'what if's would take volumes. But the what ifs are easy to clarify with a phone call, instead of trolling the 'net trying to circle up a support group for a petty issue.
Myself, I don't have to deal with cut wrap and freeze details nor do 99% of other hunters so why fuss if the specifics aren't laid out ?

Like FD,
I think if people took a moment to understand the spirit of the regs instead of spending hours looking for loopholes..........agreed. One has to realize the intent of a reg to to understand why it is spelled out the way it is. Most of the reasoning could be labelled as 'enforcement'. The regs need teeth to be able to deal with poaching and two legged sharks, a hunters nemesis..

[Jelvis]

No way gos for any bull moose in BC is going to happen so it's really redundant.
but hey it's good to dream of the good ole daze but some hunter are younger and
.. started with LEH and pays the bucks and takes the chances ..
.. they got high tech knowledge and all the whistles and bells and know how to use all.
.. new ways of dealing with many things in 2011 and on
.. new regs, new rules, new everything.
.. You and I should trust the educated and trained staff in charge of BC fish and game
They have done a superb job that's why we have the animals to hunt today .. it's A-OK

[boxhitch]

.. You and I should trust the educated and trained staff in charge of BC fish and game
They have done a superb job that's why we have the animals to hunt today .. it's A-OKJel, your jibberish just sunk to a new level here. BC fish are in a mess . and as far as the animal pop. being what they are, is mostly true to habitat change and the fact the Gov't has done so much to help kill off hunter numbers and keep remaining hunters out of the bush. It seems at times they wouold rather just close a season than follow their own management stratgedys. They handle people management easier than wildlife management , mostly because it is easier and cheaper. Hunter support groups like BCWF are constantly fighting for opportunity, no one else.

[hunterdon]

No hunting east; north of; south of creek; above 2000 meters but not below 1000 meters?????????? What is going on? You've got to literally watch were you walk because of all the traps doors created by these stupid regulations. Road closures and on and on.
Ridiculous.

[Jelvis]

Whad wood hoppin iff they opened all roads to everyone all the timester?
Hov u ever tot of tat?
Jelly Stat :-D .. yust kittinck lol ..............:)

[finngun]

[QUOTE=Jelvis;1007876]What would happen if you opened gos for any bull moose in BC.? OK.
Breeding bullz shot off at an uncontrolled rate and that is NOT going 2 happen. Period!
Jel .. ( the Bio's know already ) I'm glad we have the Ministry running it lol .. ok[

jell-o tell me how come in finland--land 1/3 of bc........has about 80000 moose---annual harvest around 50000 or more...no point system//only bull/or cow and if shooting calf it is 2 for one .. means with one moose per permit or 2 calfs..

bc has 170000 moose ......harvested about 10000 yearly all rack regulations points--etc...still yearly harvesting is wayy less than finland [or sweden ]are finn moose much better lovers, than canada moose??? ha...... or is it time start think about chance regs?//////Jel .. ( the Bio's know already ) I'm glad we have the Ministry running it lol .. ok //////i am not quite sure..f-g

[Drillbit]

Best thread I've read on here to date. Ol' FisherDude nailed it on the head at the start. Gives a guy something to think about.

Anyways, FD, you went up a notch in my book today.....you're at 2 now (the other 1 is for openly admitting to roadhunting).....need a few more to catch MrDean:)

[SimilkameenSlayer]

simplified and more user-friendly.

[boxhitch]

Simplified ? what part is too complex ?
each species needs a legal definition if a particular sex or age class is to be targetted
Dates are clear, same any calendar
closures are explained per region , with maps
more user friendly ?
all the legals and do's and don'ts are spelled out in the first several page of the booklet and the rest is split into regions for specifics

I don't get the problems

[SimilkameenSlayer]

Simplified ? what part is too complex ?
each species needs a legal definition if a particular sex or age class is to be targetted
Dates are clear, same any calendar
closures are explained per region , with maps
more user friendly ?
all the legals and do's and don'ts are spelled out in the first several page of the booklet and the rest is split into regions for specifics

I don't get the problems

good for you

however

a lot of hunting folk i have met, do not like the current layout.

sorry to disagree with you .... lol!

[boxhitch]

no prob, just discussing
No one seems to have a better solution, just gripes

My wife would say 'the problems are a typical guy thing'. I never read instructions on items, just jump in

[SimilkameenSlayer]

no prob, just discussing
No one seems to have a better solution, just gripes

My wife would say 'the problems are a typical guy thing'. I never read instructions on items, just jump in

for example

those stupid little triangle sign things and the green highlighting ... wt@! and then there is the WT stuff, you know 1 doe and one buck plus a mulie buck, reads like you can only have one wt and one mulie.

the maps are ok, but could be better.

it's not all about me,

but older folk who like to hunt who can struggle with stupid symbols and convoluted bureaucratic regulations.

there is always room for improvement.

your wife is right, and so is mine .... ;)

[SHAKER]

Re-write the thing! Antler restrictions? Spike\Fork moose is not moose hunting opertunity it's like finding a chicken with teeth. Get rid of useless LEH's in the easy draw zones. Maybe we should just start with NO NON-RESIDENT HUNTING IF WE'RE ON LEH IN THAT AREA? Just some idea's.....

[ultramafic]

Perhaps a page or two of "FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS" added to the regulations would be a good idea. I too agree that if there was a little less antler restrictions even if it meant shorter seasons.

mike

[ThinAir]

Perhaps a page or two of "FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS" added to the regulations would be a good idea. I too agree that if there was a little less antler restrictions even if it meant shorter seasons.

mike


Exactly! Seems there are questions that forever go round and round and round.... I'd like to see a FAQ section

[250 sav]

Perhaps people should read them, many people seem to ask a friend and get bad advice

[Singleshotneeded]

I'm with simplification...across BC from Sept 10 to Dec 1st, everyone gets one buck, one doe, one moose, one elk, one caribou.
Generous GOS on predators, and LEH just for mountain sheep/goats/bison, etc that are low in number. Nice and simple.

[Jonas111]

My short answer is "YES".

It seems they put in just enough to confuse or cause a slight loop hole.

Don't feel hard done by, MB is no different.

[LeverActionJunkie]

Short answer is yes they need to simplify the regs. I am with FD on that.

The endless debates over evidence of sex are proof enough of that. There will always be people trying to find loopholes its human nature, just like there will always be junkies and thieves, but if the regs were simplified i think a lot fewer honest people would be caught in limbo land. The point above about antlered/ antlerless seasons and genitals is a good one. If the season is based on antler configuration why pack a pair of nuts around, especially when the regs say either/or?

I'm sure there is more. I just wish the gov't would get their heads outta their asses. But I will probably craok before I see that.

[Jim Prawn]

I think we need to round up a bunch of guys who cant go hunting one weekend and are just sitting around getting drunk while they surf thru some internet hunting forum and re write the regs so they make sense to us. If ten year olds are allowed to hunt then the regs should be written so they can understand them too.
JP
OK just one more beer.

[brazen]

That's what I'm thinking, who is going to iron out a good FAQ to submit for inclusion in the next publication?

[boxhitch]

FAQs? That could take a while. Consider that each year another '?what if' comes up on the 'net.
I thought this thread was about clarifying the wording of the synopsis, not changing the actual regulations. Two different issues.