Big mulies

[wsm]

To the guys/ gals on here that are successfully hunting big mulies year after year.What do u look for in an area? What criteria do u use to decide that this is the area u are going to spend your time looking for that monster? feed? elevation? i manage to find small bucks every year but the big ones still elude me
thx

[pappy]

I'm in the same boat as you. Down low, I always see big ones just behind "no hunting or trespassing" signs. They're always close to where they have protection from the general public and have a "convenient" food source that helps them grow. In the mountains I haven't seen any big bucks as I have never tried to go after them. I have never done any alpine buck hunting, but I have done a search on here and found some good tips.

[wsm]

i see my fair share of big one before hunting season .but can never seem to find them during the season. sometimes i feel like i must be looking in the wrong places,. so i have ask'ed what to look for . there are some guys on here that hunt the big ones with good success every year . i think there are a # of people interested to see what guys have to say. i think the answers im hoping , will help narrow the search field

[270WIN]

you know the area and when to hunt them. mind you i have not been there in the last few years but my guess is the deer are still there. we use to go there with one guy who got his four point ever year. hell he had it the first morning we were there most the time. little advise that was given to me a wile back that i think is key. find an area you know there are big deer and stick with it. they are there or have not gone that far.

[swampthing]

Not many big bucks out there. You have to look in the places you dont want to. If you are seeing a lot of deer you are probably in a bad spot for the big boys. Ugly nasty steep and thick is a good start. The rut brings them closer to the other deer but they will still seek the nastiest terrain available to hide out. Look for the very large tracks to get an idea if there is a big buck around. I am talking big bucks. The 160 class deer will be with rest but still hiding. I have caught glimpses of a couple large bucks but have never been able to kill one over 167". The terrain that keeps them safe is tough to hunt.

[Weatherby Fan]

Well I brake my Mule deer hunting into 3 parts when your talking big bucks so to speak,Big Mulies is a pretty broad term,I'm assuming your refering to antlers ?

September-Alpine or summer range
October-transitional month and you may find them anywhere
Nov/Dec-areas where they may rut and wintering grounds

Timing is so important,this time of year(nov) I start looking at wintering grounds,south and west facing slopes as well as where there is a good concentration of doe's,you may find small to average 4 points hanging around doe's approaching the rut but as Robb-hbc said in another post he believes and I agree alot of the large/older bucks will leave their bedding areas at night creep down take care of the gals and retreat to their bedding area in the cover of darkness,some will get caught out in daylight on occasion,

Valerius Geist says they may do this also and retreat to heavy cover for a few days at a time to recover after services rendered,you need to find the elevation where you hunt with the most activity and sign and try and determine where the bucks safe bedding area is.

I find it's best to get to know one or two areas where they may winter and or rut really well instead of spreading yourself to thin.

Basically find some doe's and go to work,some places have better genetics and better feed for antler growth,but it appears large bucks are shot all over the province.
As Swampthing says above , ugly,thick,nastiest,steep cover and bedding areas,he's bang on.If your glassing open south and west facing steep slopes check below and above junipers seems to be a favorite bedding area until their pressured into the thick shit.

And as dana says you need to quit shooting the dinks and hold out for a decent buck.

Hope this helps
WF
here is a rack we picked up in a wintering ground during hunting season,so we do have some decent bucks still kicking around in B.C.


http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j466/WeatherbyFan65/LoonLakeSept2011014.jpg

[boxhitch]

If I were looking for big bucks .......
Good points about picking a spot and learning it.
It doesn't take many does to keep a buck happy.
If you get back to the truck without the aid of a flashlight, you are missing some prime time.

[shed-hunter1]

if you want a big buck you have to put your time in you wont find one at home and get away from the crowds of hunters i live in kamloops but wont hunt there

[tundra]

If you want a big buck especially a mulie you have to go to the height of land and get inside the timber. I don't mean a 100 yards inside the edge of a cut block but a km or two into heavy timber. If you know of an area where the deer winter and or rut then you will find the big boys holed up in the timber.

[mark]

What do u look for in an area? What criteria do u use to decide that this is the area u are going to spend your time looking for that monster?


To directly answer yer quo.... I hunt the rutting grounds...areas that seem to hold lots of does in november....big bucks will come from far and wide to breed these does (regardless of weather or snow levels)
Since I know of many such areas, I refine my search by hitting all of these areas frequently as the rut heats up.
During this time, im doing more scouting, than planning on shooting something.
I pay close attention to where the does are hanging, and what caliber of bucks are hanging with them.
What Im really looking for is SIGN of the monster buck, big tracks, and BIG rubs!!!! When I find tracks or rubs that make my heart skip a beat, I believe that the buck that made them will do the same.......and thats where I hunt till closing day!

In a way, every day of hunting is basically scouting and figuring out the best place for me to be on closing day (in reg. 8) other regions ya got to be there for peak rut, thats when the nocturnal ghosts we seek slip up!

The hardest part is passing up a buck that you'd like to shoot, to get the buck you want!

[one-shot-wonder]

It takes a few things to shoot a "BIG" buck, (most of these I don't possess)
Time...........as in days or weeks not....... "I hunted hard all morning!"
Hardwork.......as in bootleather, maybe out of season scouting
Patience......... can't shoot young or mid class bucks if they want a "BIG" buck have to be willing to hold onto tag
Luck..........just a little bit helps

At the end of the day it depends what one considers "BIG" many hunters have different interpretations.

What ever floats your boat, don't let somebody else set your standards for you.

[dana]

For me I need evidence a big buck lives there before I spend a great amount of time actually hunting there. I'm not talking of running to the latest hotspot because there was a big buck rumoured to have been killed there in the recent past. If that rumour was true, then the buck I'm looking for is already dead. Nope, I need concrete evidence. That comes in the forms of real life sightings pre and post season, finding big sheds, big rubs and big tracks. It is putting all the pieces of the puzzle together and then formulating a plan of attack based on time of season and weather and past knowledge of what deer do when. This is something that takes an incredible amount of time to come up with and it is always changing as the conditions and deer behavior change. I am always hitting old areas but always on the look for new areas. Nature is in constant change.

[GoatGuy]

low density deer populations and tough country = low density hunter populations = high sex ratios and higher average age = more big bucks.

Lots of guys that will luck in to one or two over their hunting career, always a couple decent bucks shot in high density deer/hunter areas, but there are very few hunters that see big bucks every year. Most of the guys that do hunt in tough country.

[shed-hunter1]

it takes paitence when i was 22 i decided i wanted to hunt big bucks that year i was skunked but with a little bit of luck and learing areas it payed off im now 29 ive shot a 186 non typical a 154 typical a 160 typical and a 200 non typical put your time in

[dana]

GG is bang on. If you are seeing a lot of hunters, you are hunting in the wrong place if you want to kill a big buck. If you hunt an area for a week straight and only see your own boot tracks, you are in a lot better position to kill a big buck.

[Mountain Hunter]

Hmmm, to a point. If all you see in a week is your own boot tracks then you might wany to start looking for areas that have deer tracks too, hah ha! :)


GG is bang on. If you are seeing a lot of hunters, you are hunting in the wrong place if you want to kill a big buck. If you hunt an area for a week straight and only see your own boot tracks, you are in a lot better position to kill a big buck.

[GoatGuy]

Hmmm, to a point. If all you see in a week is your own boot tracks then you might wany to start looking for areas that have deer tracks too, hah ha! :)

most of the places that consistently produce truly big bucks, a REALLY good day is a handful of deer. Lots of deerless days............

[wsm]

ok . so to break it down a little more . what would cause u to spend the time it would take to find the rubs, tracks, etc. is there something u would see that would make u think hmm , im gonna spend some time here looking to see if there is a big buck around. is it just based on lack of hunters and lots of does and inhospitable terrian? i spend a lot of time hunting and area and do get out alot for a lower crimelander. i do my best to get away from the crowds. the guys i hunt with hate it when i shoot things , due to where i kill them . it seems to always involves long packs. i very much appreciate the imput, more than u guy know .. thankyou

[GoatGuy]

ok . so to break it down a little more . what would cause u to spend the time it would take to find the rubs, tracks, etc. is there something u would see that would make u think hmm , im gonna spend some time here looking to see if there is a big buck around. is it just based on lack of hunters and lots of does and inhospitable terrian? i spend a lot of time hunting and area and do get out alot for a lower crimelander. i do my best to get away from the crowds. the guys i hunt with hate it when i shoot things , due to where i kill them . it seems to always involves long packs. i very much appreciate the imput, more than u guy know .. thankyou

BC record book is a good place to start.

Being more explicit: Wet belt starting at the border south of Trail, north to Valemount and all parts on both sides that get a lot of precipitation. Some spots don't hold deer, others very few, but lots of age.

Of course there's always Clearwater.....

[wsm]

BC record book is a good place to start.

Being more explicit: Wet belt starting at the border south of Trail, north to Valemount and all parts on both sides that get a lot of precipitation. Some spots don't hold deer, others very few, but lots of age.

Of course there's always Clearwater.....lol i must know 100 people that go to clearwater every year

[muleychaser]

Definately some great advice on here from others, I have to agree with Dana on alot of points like hunting an area where you have seen concrete proof of a buck using and go where others don't. If you look at an area and say to yourself " who in their right mind would go in there" that is a good spot to start. I have seen one set of buck tracks for 3 seasons now that just keeps my mind wondering how big he actually is, but he is timber buck and they dont get big by being dumb.

The best lessons I have ever learned have been from messing up first hand and watching a 180 class mulie bounce through the timber without a hope of getting a shot off. Those are the mistakes I never repeat again.

[Buck]

When you find something like this it is well worth hunting the area.We ended up seeing a very large buck in this area but never got close enough for a shot.This scat was the size of moose turds .

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/Ramcam-Photos/100_0062-1.jpg

[dana]

Hmmm, to a point. If all you see in a week is your own boot tracks then you might wany to start looking for areas that have deer tracks too, hah ha! :)

I have had weeks where I didn't see hide nor hair of a deer and yet I kept on hunting the spots that I was certain a big buck would show up in. That is where the rubber really meets the road. Trophy mule deer hunting is truly a head game. If you can't win the battle in your head, you will give up and go somewhere else just to see a deer and then the trigger finger will be itchy when you encounter a buck that wasn't up to your standards. Win the battle in your head and keep at it. No deer days are common when chasing big bucks. I can remember back to 03. I hunted more that year than any other year. Went weeks with only a handful of deer sightings. Then I encountered 3 days of absolute trophy mule deer bliss. In 3 days I saw several 170 class bucks, 1 190 class typical, missed a 200+ double dropper NT, and finally killed a 190 triple dropper 10x4. Then it went dead again. Had a buddy working the same area and he saw nothing in that area for the rest of the season.

[lapadat]

Speaking of Winter Range.....what I learned from chasing BT's is that good bucks will move down into Winter Range in search of the ladies prior to and during the rut. They are most vulnerable because the does are concentrated on the winter range and the boys follow. Now I'm in the Cariboo chasing Muley's I'm coming up empty on finding Trophy class bucks despite tearing up Winter Range for a few years. BTW, the number of mule deer entries in the BC Book for the Blackwater River and surrounding area is sickening.....The sheds below are about the only thing that motivates me to find some trophy bucks. For you guys that fairly regularily cut your tags on mature Muley's....are you typically finding big boys on winter range during november? The rodents had thier way with these and chewed off a few inches.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/MuleyShed.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

[muleychaser]

the area I am currently hunting has a very broad range of elevation and a decent population of deer. Down low by camp last year we seen 120 deer, it was late november and there were bucks chasing does and hunters chasing the bucks and the rut was in full swing there were no doubts about that. I was the only one going up high as there were literally no tracks but a few. Those few sets were big and the big boys were still up high while the middle class bucks were tearing it up down low.

Those big guys will eventually come down but I have seen them stay up there even with 4 feet of snow on the ground up top and litterally no snow down low plain and simply because down low was where the hunting pressure was.

With that being said last year there was one buck, and I seen his tracks and they were big, that came down right into the thick of things and was chasing does all over the mountain side. Three different groups of guys totalling 7 all together were chasing the same buck for 3 to 4 days and through talking to the various guys he was only seen twice and never was shot.

It took 10 years of mistakes and reflecting on those mistakes before I got to the point where I regularily seem to pull a 4 point out every year now. My count now is 12 four points ranging from 150 to 200 and I have no plans on stopping.

[GoatGuy]

Those big guys will eventually come down but I have seen them stay up there even with 4 feet of snow on the ground up top and litterally no snow down low plain and simply because down low was where the hunting pressure was.

Not quite accurate.

You can't turn testosterone down and bucks rut in the same general area every single year. Mule bucks are actually pretty traditional.

[donperk]

they turn up anytime ,,just be out all the time

[muleychaser]

GoatGuy

Without a doubt they do come down but I have also seen them turn around and go back up after a short time down low. Like donperk said you just have to be out and there when it happens.

[husky30-06]

one reason that some of the guys in our hunting group DO NOT like to hunt with my Dad and I is.............we go a LONG ways away from the roads/people and not necessarily rough country. the area can be very thick as they can sneak away quietly as you bash your way through. we have kept up on our area for many years and have a pretty good idea of their habits and runs...........still have trouble getting the sight on them but they are there every year, they are big because they are smart.......OR JUST LIUCKY????? :)

[dana]

It is pretty darn hard to short term pattern a mature muley buck, Their main predator is the cougar. To make sure they don't become catscat, they are very random about their movements. Meaning, pretty hard to sit on a trail in a treestand and have a muley come by at the same time every day like their easy to pattern cousins, the whitetail. A cougar is all about the ambush. For a mature buck to live enough years to get mature, he's got to beat the ambush, by being random. But.....they can be long term patterned. What I mean by that is they are very predictable where they will be living during certain times of the year. A couple examples of this is a big mature muley will show up in the same alpine basin every summer and actually will bed in the same summer perch year after year. The same goes with the winter range. He will show up in the same location and can shed his antlers within a few hundred metres year after year after year. So you see a big buck in one place one time, if he survives another year, good chance he will show up in that location in another year. So this is where scouting is your best bet on piecing the puzzle together. You can actually have target bucks and pattern that target buck from year to year. Shed hunting in the spring is a good way to really get to know a buck's winter nest and find out whether that area is a good place to focus come the late season. Keep in mind, not all bucks rut where they winter. You need to piece the puzzle and check out logical areas above the winter range if you aren't finding them rutting low. It takes years to piece the puzzle together. And not every year will that puzzle look the same. Weather be it warm or cold can be pattern busters. Wolves and other hunting presure can also be pattern busters. The best way to track what you are seeing is by keeping a journal. Keeping track of weather and deer movements can help you in the future. If you truly want a big ol' muley, then you need to come to the realization it is something that takes a lot of time for your labour to see fruits. Don't get discouraged and keep at it.

[dana]

GoatGuy

Without a doubt they do come down but I have also seen them turn around and go back up after a short time down low. Like donperk said you just have to be out and there when it happens.

This is quite common. The big boys will come down at night, breed and then go back up without a single hunter ever knowing they were there because it was all done under the cover of darkness. The reverse can also happen. Does can go up and be bred and come back down to settle in with the doe groups. You can observe does playing hard to get during the peak of the rut as the younger bucks chase them with their tongues hanging out. That is all part of her getting ready. She is the one that choses her mate and if there is a big mature buck in the area, a lot of times, he doesn't have to go to the does, they instead come to him. He'll hang out in some thick nasty ground and the breeding will be done in there.
There is also the O buck (opt outer) that will sit out a rut due to several reasons. Those bucks typically will stay as high as physically possible and don't show up on the winter range until Feb or sometimes they just winter at treeline living in treewells all winter long. The predators are typically where the herds are. If a single buck can etch out some feed way up high, he is safe from the predators.

[The Dude]

Not quite accurate.

You can't turn testosterone down and bucks rut in the same general area every single year. Mule bucks are actually pretty traditional.

I used to think big bucks got spooky, now I'm starting to learn that spooky bucks get big. I have a friend with a ranch in the 'Boo, former sheep guide in Canada, faller in BC, and WT rancher in Texas. Knows his shit. His theory is that some of these big buggers just don't follow their balls, cuz they're too easily spooked. They might do some breeding, mind you, but they're tough to pattern because they go a combination of nocturnal/alpine and they just aren't seen with the herds of does and medium bucks.

BTW Dana: Good advice, nice of you to share your experience.

[elknut]

elknut Ive hunted muleys for 35 to 40 years and one thing is always true...Find the does...Learn there habits..The boys are there...Dont shoot the small bucks..Hunt the dominant buck...You might only get one chance when you see him so be ready...Also hunt the quiet time of the day..They move then..During the season there are only a few really good days...You have to hunt these days even if they are during the week to score sometimes . Last but not least get a copy of the record book of BC and see where the big ones come from..The genetics should still be there Good Luck....

[one-shot-wonder]

Last but not least get a copy of the record book of BC and see where the big ones come from..The genetics should still be there Good Luck....

The record books are full of hot air and BS, Dana touched on it when he said something to the effect of mother nature is ever changing, you have to be prepared to adapt.......just saying don't take it to the bank.

[huntersam]

big bucks are everywere, only you dont see them because they are smart enough to stay away and get that big. i only hunt mulies in places were no one else does. while hiking a ways away from roads in some thick timber this year elk hunting, i was not expecting to see a mulie atall, but i took the biggest mulie i have taken. just get out, hike and get in places that no one else ever goes and be willing to go through anything.

[dana]

The record books are full of hot air and BS, Dana touched on it when he said something to the effect of mother nature is ever changing, you have to be prepared to adapt.......just saying don't take it to the bank.

How many entries for Williams Lake are there? A $hitload. Does that tell ya anything? Nope! Williams Lake can be anywhere from Chilco Lake to Quesnel Lake and everywhere in between. All you need to give is a general location. Not something you can really count on. And when it comes to general areas, you can find entries from pretty much every corner of muley habitat in this province. I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is no one area that is better than another for big mature trophy bucks. If you hear of an area where one was killed, it's dead already! Hunting where a dead buck once lived doesn't mean that another one is going to magically appear there. Some bucks are crafty their whole lives and live under the noses of hundreds of hunters, only to be killed one day by a meat hunter that doesn't know what a big buck truly is. That buck screwed up on day and it cost him and then suddenly the hoards of hunters flock to the area thinking they will have the same thing happen to them. If you are one of those people that can go to Vegas and win big every time, then by all means, jump on that latest bandwagon. For those of us that can't even win a coffee with a roll of the rim, we are best to actually do our homework.

[mooseslayer]

I can't say I have ever shot a "Hawg Down" but consistently find decent bucks each year. living in Kelowna you will find a stream of vehicles heading towards the same place as everyone else, these places produce bucks apparently and there is nothing wrong with shooting something legal but less than large. However looking for the larger deer can be difficult if you haven't spent numerous years understanding the migrations and especially areas where rutting takes place. typically many of these areas are known and there are always a few decent bucks taken where there is tail to be found regardless of how many hunters. If I see no vehicles, no boot tracks and know its off the map, its a good place to find bucks thats can make it long enough to be mature, that said its another thing to know the bucks that produce in the area and the genetics they spread. Long story short, find areas with less pressure where you have seen rutting activity, especially if you know there have been a few "hawgs down", as long as everyone else doesn't know about these bucks. Less deer sometimes the better, quality over quantity, otherwise everyone else probably knows about "your spot".

[one-shot-wonder]

big bucks are everywere, only you dont see them because they are smart enough to stay away and get that big. i only hunt mulies in places were no one else does. while hiking a ways away from roads in some thick timber this year elk hunting, i was not expecting to see a mulie atall, but i took the biggest mulie i have taken. just get out, hike and get in places that no one else ever goes and be willing to go through anything.

Congrats on what sounds like a decent buck this year. did you post thread about it?

Last years Mulie you shot was not away from the crowds (I've been watching you :wink:).......mind you a respectable buck but not a "BIG" buck

[elknut]

Elknut..Awh you only kill 195 bucks..Too small for me HaHa..Dennis But the truth is to hunt an area for the dominant buck..The guys that run around here and there never get to find the evidence of the monster..During the last few days of the season if there is snow walk him down..In a given hunting spot of 10 square miles there might be 2 or 3 really good bucks..Guys might see one or two of them but they seem to grow to reach another year older and bigger..A big buck that is killed you will find out through the hunting grapeline..For the new guys a well balanced 150 class deer is that monster...They will learn what a true booner looks like after years of hunting..To those guys that kill 180 to 200 inch deer every year I say they are hunting a game farm..BC book deer of the 170 to 180 class are the monsters for most hunters..If you can kill a 165 to 175 deer every 2 or 3 years youve done excellent...For myself If I dont see him or I do and no shot I go home empty for the year...The hunt is the learning curve...Your big buck spot is like yor underwear and your wife not to be shared...If you want to have a chance at the growing up bucks that turn into the monsters..

[GoatGuy]

This is quite common. The big boys will come down at night, breed and then go back up without a single hunter ever knowing they were there because it was all done under the cover of darkness. The reverse can also happen. Does can go up and be bred and come back down to settle in with the doe groups. You can observe does playing hard to get during the peak of the rut as the younger bucks chase them with their tongues hanging out. That is all part of her getting ready. She is the one that choses her mate and if there is a big mature buck in the area, a lot of times, he doesn't have to go to the does, they instead come to him. He'll hang out in some thick nasty ground and the breeding will be done in there.
There is also the O buck (opt outer) that will sit out a rut due to several reasons. Those bucks typically will stay as high as physically possible and don't show up on the winter range until Feb or sometimes they just winter at treeline living in treewells all winter long. The predators are typically where the herds are. If a single buck can etch out some feed way up high, he is safe from the predators.

This is going to be a good one.

Big bucks breed receptive does...... just like little bucks do.

Receptive does come in to heat to be bred so that they drop their fawn along with everyone else ~200 days later. Just like your dog doesn't wait an extra month to come into heat waiting for the 'big dog' neither do deer. While sheep do do that to a certain degree, and the timing has been shown to be changed by a couple of days with controlled environments for wt day, generally speaking the does come in to estrous at the same time every year whether there's 200" of antlers hanging around or no antlers hanging around. Deer simply cannot delay this and do not have the social structure like some other animals which can negatively affect rut synchronicity.

If a buck doesn't breed does it's because it doesn't posess the ability (no magic blue pills) or the desire (gay). As a result of this theory, those bucks will not pass along their genetics making them, in the big picture quite rare, and you will not see generations of this, which 'should be' no different than in society.

[Brian011]

Even the big bucks screw up and get caught in places that you would never expect them to be. Last year I shot an average 4 point during the last weekend in November. My gf came over to my dads place to see it and when she did see it she laughed and said she saw one twice as big on her way over right beside a main road in the wide open in a field at about noon following a doe around. I asked this year if it was as big as the buck I shot this year and she said it was as big or bigger. I tend to hunt just like most of the comments on here and shoot a decent buck every year but by no means have any of them been 'big' bucks. They are very hard to come by, and then you hear of someone that shot a 200 class buck from his truck standing in the middle of the rd. So as hard as they are to find, some do make mistakes and allow you to get a chance at him so you just have to be patient and persistent cause they are out there.

[elknut]

Yes you are right The record books have some hot air..Where I hunt they list it sometimes as a town or lake or creek..If you study the book you might find 5...6 or more entrys for one area..This is a starting point..The best spots are not driving the roads but hunting the timber ...You generally dont meet many people there...And you dont run into big bucks behind every tree...But you have to learn the bush as much as the deer...One last tip ..Learn to use a compass or a gps...Also one really good tip.....Googleearth...

[GoatGuy]

I used to think big bucks got spooky, now I'm starting to learn that spooky bucks get big. I have a friend with a ranch in the 'Boo, former sheep guide in Canada, faller in BC, and WT rancher in Texas. Knows his shit. His theory is that some of these big buggers just don't follow their balls, cuz they're too easily spooked. They might do some breeding, mind you, but they're tough to pattern because they go a combination of nocturnal/alpine and they just aren't seen with the herds of does and medium bucks.

BTW Dana: Good advice, nice of you to share your experience.
Sounds good, but lots of holes in the theory.

First is the whole nocturnal business. Deer need to eat and then ruminate. They can't stop at costco and pick-up a 10 lbs bag of browse, lay down and roll out a dinner tray. So, that means they have to eat during the day. While they might not be hanging out in a cutblock or on the side of the road they are up and down all the time, feeding often from bed to bed or right around their bed.

Second, mother nature isn't programmed to occasionally participate in the rut. Either you're in or you're out - the only occasionals are usually the young or really old ones that are lucky enough to sneak a piece while the boss isn't around.

Bucks (including big) will typically come into a group of does and run them to split them up and figure out if/which one is coming into estrous. After they get that sorted out, they'll often push the doe away from the rest of the group. Lots of times they'll push the doe off and wait - she'll feed, he'll stand there moving every couple minutes, sometimes way longer than that, usually to just check the doe out. Lots of times he'll bed down so he can see her and only get up once she's getting out of sight.

Usually it's not the bucks that are easily spooked it's the does. See it all the time when rattling wt's in, same with hunting elk, mule deer what have you. The brains of the operation are with the women.

Sure this will be an hbc barn burner. Anyways, it's kind of a neat thing when you get to see it in action.

One last thing on the does and the bucks showing up. There's lots of areas that have low deer densities, often near high density spots where bucks will rut as they're traditional returning to the same general area EVERY YEAR and breed the does that are around. Those are the spots where you find age and high buck:doe ratios. Same for elk/wt deer. And in many places that includes alpine and sub-alpine hunting spots..................

[The Dude]

Sounds good in theory as well. Survival is key, then breeeding.
Show me some big buck pics to back it up.

[GoatGuy]

Sounds good in theory as well. Survival is key, then breeeding.
Show me some big buck pics to back it up.

hahaha, if only I could figure out how to post pics....................................:confused:

Then the before and after pics..... what a charmed life that would be........

[todbartell]

smells like bullshit up in here ;)

[muleychaser]

The bottom line is that the only way you will get to the point where one day you will consistanly harvest mature mule deer is plain and simply to get out there and burn the leather and daylight hours chasing them. This will be an investment of not just days but years of lessons learned. Everyone has thier own theorys and ideas and there is not a thing wrong with that as we are all entitled to our own choices and ideas. Just cause one guys ideas differ from the next guy does not make them wrong it just makes them thier own.

The has been alot of usefull info passed on in this thread but it is completely useless to a person who does not want to commit the time to apply them. One thing to remember is sometimes all it takes is one bad step in the wrong direction and it could meen the difference between showing your buddys the big buck you took and waiting till next year to have another oppurtunity at him.

[wsm]

funny u mention this..Some bucks are crafty their whole lives and live under the noses of hundreds of hunters, only to be killed one day by a meat hunter that doesn't know what a big buck truly is. when i was young my dad killed a buck near big dog mountain , the rack was used for hanging my jackets/hats on the back of my door.it was wider than the doorway. anyway it disappeared when my parents split, never really thought about it until i started hunting. i asked him if he ever had it scored, he said to me it's just meat in the freezer and didnt care to have it scored.. so i wonder how many like this are killed each year

[wsm]

i have read here a few mentions to the record book , of which i dont have a copy. now in the off season i have have seen my fair share of big bucks, when hunting moose up north, hudson hope i have seen lots of big bucks. i have seen a few 140-maybe 150s that seem to catch me before i catch them . i usually see them cause i hear thump, thump thump as they bounce off. but to date the largest buck i have ever seen was on private land from hwy 24 right neer the fawn lake turnoff bout 5 or 6 years ago. what does the record book say about this area?

[Weatherby Fan]

The bottom line is that the only way you will get to the point where one day you will consistanly harvest mature mule deer is plain and simply to get out there and burn the leather and daylight hours chasing them. This will be an investment of not just days but years of lessons learned. Everyone has thier own theorys and ideas and there is not a thing wrong with that as we are all entitled to our own choices and ideas. Just cause one guys ideas differ from the next guy does not make them wrong it just makes them thier own.

The has been alot of usefull info passed on in this thread but it is completely useless to a person who does not want to commit the time to apply them. One thing to remember is sometimes all it takes is one bad step in the wrong direction and it could meen the difference between showing your buddys the big buck you took and waiting till next year to have another oppurtunity at him.

Very well said muleychaser,

Learning the area you hunt geographically like the back of your hand,throwing on your backpack and hiking in several kilometers in the dark and not having to worry about where you are or getting lost surely helps.

The habits of the deer in the area which as much as they will be consistent they will be ever changing,
The timing and the amount of time put in year after year and learning from your mistakes and I've made lots of them ! It's tough to have success if you just get a 3 day weekend once a year to go chase them around during the rut,chances are a guy is going to shoot the first bonehead that qualifies.

And what works in the area I hunt may be totally different than say the crew in Clearwater,
The reality is is that if you have set your standards of say B&C values you are going to go home empty handed more often then not,and you should not be disappointed in the fact you didn't shoot a deer of that quality but happy in your success that you didn't lower your standards.

WF

[Davey Crockett]

Sounds good in theory as well. Survival is key, then breeeding.
Show me some big buck pics to back it up.

Survival of bucks is not key to perpetuating the species. Evidence of this is the extremely poor condition that dominant bucks enter winter in.

I agree with goat guy. You are either in or out. Does go into estrous for a 24-36 hour period and they can become impregnated at any time during that period. If you consider this, it would not make any sense that a buck would abandon his prize to hide.

[Islandeer]

Sounds good in theory as well. Survival is key, then breeeding.
Show me some big buck pics to back it up.

Hmmmmm, if all the critters worried more about survival then we wouldn't have much breeding going on now would we?

However I do buy into the theory that big bucks do stay up high and either breed other does that come up or prefer high spots too. And for sure big bucks do sneak down at night and breed or chase does back up the mtn with him.

[muleychaser]

i have read here a few mentions to the record book , of which i dont have a copy. now in the off season i have have seen my fair share of big bucks, when hunting moose up north, hudson hope i have seen lots of big bucks. i have seen a few 140-maybe 150s that seem to catch me before i catch them . i usually see them cause i hear thump, thump thump as they bounce off. but to date the largest buck i have ever seen was on private land from hwy 24 right neer the fawn lake turnoff bout 5 or 6 years ago. what does the record book say about this area?

The record book will definately point out genetics for that area but here is a reality. A few years ago they opened up a late season antlerless hunt up there. ALOT OF MATURE BUCKS GOT HAMMERED AFTER THEY DROPPED THIER ANTLERS. I seen one that had enormous pedicules. These deer came out of the rut worn thin then were hit by a brutal early winter at which point they dropped thier antlers and were up for grabs to anyone with a tag.

Even around PG here we had a few bad winters of really deep snow. The deer population took a huge shit kicking. That is a good example of mother nature stepping in. One season lots of deer the next hardly any in an area. These hits take along time to recover from and to me alot of mature bucks worn down from the rut have a hard time putting on enough fat to survive a hard winter let alone throwing a pack of wolves into the mix when the snow forms a crust.

This is just one of the variables hunter face in looking for that elusive trophy.

[dana]

This is going to be a good one.

Big bucks breed receptive does...... just like little bucks do.

Receptive does come in to heat to be bred so that they drop their fawn along with everyone else ~200 days later. Just like your dog doesn't wait an extra month to come into heat waiting for the 'big dog' neither do deer. While sheep do do that to a certain degree, and the timing has been shown to be changed by a couple of days with controlled environments for wt day, generally speaking the does come in to estrous at the same time every year whether there's 200" of antlers hanging around or no antlers hanging around. Deer simply cannot delay this and do not have the social structure like some other animals which can negatively affect rut synchronicity.

If a buck doesn't breed does it's because it doesn't posess the ability (no magic blue pills) or the desire (gay). As a result of this theory, those bucks will not pass along their genetics making them, in the big picture quite rare, and you will not see generations of this, which 'should be' no different than in society.

GG,
You aren't paying attention to what I am saying. The doe knows where that mature buck is and goes and finds him. A mature doe knows what she is doing and doesn't let some little rat jump on her back. It is about survival of the fittest. That is what antlers are for. They tell the doe who is the fittest and best to breed with so her fawns can grow up strong and fit. This is basic science. That is why critters with antlers have antlers. Young, inexperienced does don't know any better. Mature does know exactly what they are doing and they seek out the biggest buck to sire their offspring. Many hunters see young bucks chasing does and think that they are the ones that get to breed her. Not the case. That is the prework. By pushing and teasing they get her to that magic place that is one lip curl away from breeding. If you have a mature dominate buck in the area, she will be bred by that buck or else she is too young and inexperienced to know any better. While hunters think they have an area covered off and they only see little bucks in the area, that doen't mean he isn't within a few hours walking distance of a doe that is about to come into heat. And yes, she will pack up from the other does and head out on her own and locate him. They are not like dogs in any way shape or form. They do in fact choose their suiter and there is a ton of science that backs that up. And yup they can even resist the young bucks if there isn't a big buck in the area. Ever hear of the second rut??? Pretty much occurs in this province from Dec 8-12th. That is the does that were missed the first go around.

As for O bucks, they can resist the urge because they are no where near the smell. High up on the mountains when the does are low down in the winter range. He might opt out for various reasons. Geist theorizes that they may have got their asses kicked by another dominate buck so they avoid the rut in an effort to actually beat their rival in an upcoming year. You see they won't be worn down going into the winter. Lots of fat stores to get them through, meanwhile their rival is beat and wasted and could possibly die during the winter. The O buck then comes in unchallenged the next rut as the dominate buck.

[dana]

There is one thing about the rut that many hunters miss. That is the smell. Does don't all come in at once but if they are congregated on the winter range that smell gets them all coming in within a few days. The rut then becomes a wham, bam, thank ya mam 3 day event and then it is done. It is the snow that pushes the does and young bucks lower during Sept and Oct. If that snow doesn't start piling up, does will be scattered over all elevations as are the bucks. When does aren't around other does, they won't come in all at the same time because the smell isn't in the air. Smell has a way of getting the hormones going. No different than woman who live in the same house cycling about the same time of the month. If does aren't around other does they will come in at different times and the rut will be drawn out over the entire month of Nov. To get an intense rut, you need them all together. But if you blink, you will miss it. It can happen so fast that while you were at work during the week days it is over before the weekend. Meanwhile 20 kms away on another hillside, the rut can still be going. It is a very localized thing. Cold weather does play a role as well. While the rut will happen without cold weather, if it is warm it will be entirely a noctural rut. Warm conditions and the bucks will overheat to the point of exhaustion and in some cases death. That is why they will sleep during the day and rut during the coolness of the night. So if you are watching a group of does with no buck around, you need to figure out why that is. Perhaps they all have been bred already.

[elknut]

To WSM From elknut..number 8 typ Sheridan lake 200 and 2eights By the way hwy 24 has some nice deer from hwy 97 to Littlefort..Not everyone enters there deer in the book..If you live in the area you probably see bucks alongside the hwy on your way to and from work..An awful lot of deer have become resident deer..they dont migrate..If you approach the landowners in the off season they might give you permission..Maybe that big buck or other big bucks are still there..And one very inportant piece of info....If you find an area where you have killed a big buck and it isnt logged or bug killed but in the same state hunt it every year...If one big buck liked the area others will too.I have hunted one basic core area of about 10 miles by 3 or 4 miles for 35 years...My biggest is a 189 buck a 186 and 10 or more 175 ...Missed a 230 nontyp or bigger screwed up a 195 typ..Hey the deer win too..The area is a traditional fir ridge that runs parallel to the hwy..People everywhere...Anyway good luck on hwy 24

[Walking Buffalo]

Not quite accurate.

You can't turn testosterone down and bucks rut in the same general area every single year. Mule bucks are actually pretty traditional.

Remember Geist? ;)

There are exceptions. MD bucks have been known to "opt out" of the rut some years. These bucks are often Very BIG deer. Opting out of the rut for a few years gives them an advantage in the growth department.

I've encountered a couple of bucks that may have been taking a year off of rutting. BIG Bodies and antlers to match.