Can I shoot a Mtn goat kid?

[pearljam]

I have a Reg. 4 LEH draw that states, either sex any age.

So by what I get from reading the regs, I can shoot


- a billy, lone or in a group of nannies with kids
- a nanny as long as it does not have a kid or is in a group of other nannies that have kids
- a kid


Is my interpretation right?

[vortex hunter]

YESSSSSS YESSSSS you answered your own question dude....

[David Heitsman]

What would be the point of shooting something basically inedible, that wasn't at least mature?

[pearljam]

What would be the point of shooting something basically inedible, that wasn't at least mature?

Dave, I am not asking you to judge me, i am asking what is legal.... That's it. but thanks for your two cents

To me it does not make sense that I can shoot a kid, but I can't shoot a lone nanny that is in a group of other nannies with kids. Not that I plan on shooting a nanny....

[steel_ram]

I would assume a kid would be a part of a family group? Lots of Nanny's get shot by those that can't go home without cutting a tag. Who know's if they were part of a group, pretty much impossible to prove.

[The Dude]

Although you realize the regs strongly recommend that you shoot only Billies for a good reason, right?
Plus a Billie makes a wayyyy better mount! :D

[rocksteady]

Don't quote me on this, I am sure some of the biologists on here can probably say it better....

Billys are not as fragile to hunting harvest (Another Billy will move in and do the breeding, if you take one out).

Nanies are sensitive to harvest (there is a swack of data/studies on it), so you don't want to take a nanny in the presence of kids....Maybe teh kid will die, as they do not seem to be all that smart....

You may find a kid by itself cause maybe Mom fell off a cliff/grizzly killed her/whatever and the kid will probably not survive...

The original intent of the either sex/any age clause was due to the fact that it is difficult to identify a goats gender (for first timers etc), and its even harder to estimate age, so they did not put "Mature, Billies only" as there COULD be nannies shot and left, as the shooters don't want to face penalties....

You are right in your interpretation, if you do shoot a kid, it would make a throw rug about the size of a medium dog bed....

There are a tonne of websites out there (ALaska/Idaho/BC) that will teach you how to gender a goat, fairly confidently, so that you a) harvest the correct gender and don't mess with the balance and b) harvest a nice goat and not get rode on HBC for killing a nanny....

What Zone did you get??? I have one that I am still trying to figure out when I want to go...PM me, who knows htey could be in the same zone...

[d6dan]

They basically state, shoot a Billy, as family groups don't fair well when harvested. Dry nannies,which are usually without a kid are the leaders of the group and are the educators of a group, so by shooting those only hurt the group. So look them over and decide.. Over harvesting nannies now,will only lower the draws available down the road.

[boxhitch]

Where do you find the definition for a dry nanny ?
Kids are on solid food way before the snow flies. Also, there are many reasons for a female anyspecies to be without offspring at the time of viewing.

[rocksteady]

Where do you find the definition for a dry nanny ?
.


OH this could get so DIRTY !!!!

[boxhitch]

I can't find anything in the regs specifically disallowing killing of kid goats.
Bucks and bulls have to have bone showing for any male seasons, but nothing for goats.
non-issue

[boxhitch]

OH this could get so DIRTY !!!!Stay on the subject of goats if you can :)

[d6dan]

No, nothing states that you can't kill a kid, but if you read page 26 of the synopsis, it gives you some info on harvesting goats.
Dry nannies have no kids in tow. You should know this :mrgreen:. Usually kids stay with a nanny for a year and over the winter..
Its a big issue if you want a sustainable Goat population.

[rocksteady]

stay on the goats if you can :)

wtf?? :) :)

[Ltbullken]

Dave, I am not asking you to judge me, i am asking what is legal.... That's it. but thanks for your two cents

To me it does not make sense that I can shoot a kid, but I can't shoot a lone nanny that is in a group of other nannies with kids. Not that I plan on shooting a nanny....

...But you'll shoot a kid?

[pitbell]

Man up and hunt for a mature billy. This isn't one of those hunts that you can claim your "hunting for meat so I shot the young one" bullshit either.
If a mistake is made and you happen to shoot a nanny then no big deal but the thought of shooting a kid is just ridiculous... although it would make for a lighter pack out...

[Mikey Rafiki]

Man up and hunt for a mature billy. This isn't one of those hunts that you can claim your "hunting for meat so I shot the young one" bullshit either.
If a mistake is made and you happen to shoot a nanny then no big deal but the thought of shooting a kid is just ridiculous... although it would make for a lighter pack out...

Even if it takes a few hunts or a few years it's worth the wait. Most fun part of goat hunting is the experience and being way up in the alpine. I haven't harvested one yet, but I've had some great hunts.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I for one has witnessed the decimation of one particular goat herd im my area. 5 years ago the one herd had 6 nannies. This herd was quite easily accessed and over the past five years I know of 3 of these nannies shot out of the herd. There is now one nanny and one kid left. really quite sad. I voiced my displeasure on here about two hunters from Abbotsford that shot 2 nannies and took alot of flack for doing so.
I just got back from a nine day hunt and only saw one nanny and kid in a place where you would normally see 20 to 30 goats over a nine day hunt. Some of the local hunters are as well hard on the population as they used to "go up and shoot the easy ones for meat."
Do us hunters a favor and do your best to choose a billy.

[325]

Why the hell would anybody want to shoot a kid??

[Ltbullken]

Man up and hunt for a mature billy. This isn't one of those hunts that you can claim your "hunting for meat so I shot the young one" bullshit either.
If a mistake is made and you happen to shoot a nanny then no big deal but the thought of shooting a kid is just ridiculous... although it would make for a lighter pack out...

Ditto! Could you imagine a kid wall mount? Any self-resepcting hunter seeing that would laugh themselves to puddles! And afterwards give (or should give) a dressing down to the hunter about hunting a kid and ethical hunting. Even the taxidermist would have to shake his/her head. Taking a mature billy is the best option for a healthy heard and anything else is just wasteful and detrimental to the heard... As for the lighter pack out, well as was stated above...'man up'!

[Ltbullken]

I for one has witnessed the decimation of one particular goat herd im my area. 5 years ago the one herd had 6 nannies. This herd was quite easily accessed and over the past five years I know of 3 of these nannies shot out of the herd. There is now one nanny and one kid left. really quite sad. I voiced my displeasure on here about two hunters from Abbotsford that shot 2 nannies and took alot of flack for doing so.
I just got back from a nine day hunt and only saw one nanny and kid in a place where you would normally see 20 to 30 goats over a nine day hunt. Some of the local hunters are as well hard on the population as they used to "go up and shoot the easy ones for meat."
Do us hunters a favor and do your best to choose a billy.

That is really sad.

[goatdancer]

And this is the kind of stuff that will get all goats on LEH, including billy only stipulations.

[Rubberfist]

Unless you already have an exceptional billy and a big ole broad of a dry nanny and want to complete your Rocky Mountain goat family, kids should be allowed to be kids.

[ElectricDyck]

Hey Pealjam, since you brought it up what's your opinion on the subject then? Curious where you are coming from?

[pearljam]

And this is the kind of stuff that will get all goats on LEH, including billy only stipulations.

So why do the regs say either sex, any age for the west koots? If the population was hurting so bad, it would say adult only like all the other goat LEH....


Hey Pealjam, since you brought it up what's your opinion on the subject then? Curious where you are coming from?

I have no intention on shooting a kid, But I am all for supporting guys shooting legal animals. And if this means a guy wants to shoot a kid, good for him. I support it. IF IT'S LEGAL TO DO SO.

All I was looking for was clarification on the regs/LEH...... All of a sudden I get PM's calling me a poacher WTF? That's why I hate this site. Too many righteous people on here. This is by far the worst forum I belong to.

[todbartell]

All of a sudden I get PM's calling me a poacher WTF? That's why I hate this site. Too many righteous people on here. This is by far the worst forum I belong to.
[/B]

although I don't support anybody who PM'd you, calling you a poacher, I must say if you dislike HBC to the point of 'hating' the worst forum you "belong" to, leave. It's pretty simple

[Nekhani]

One of the reasons Mountain Goats are very sensitive to harvest is because they live in extremely rugged country and do not repopulate easily. Once Mountain Goat herds are wiped out of a range they rarely come back.

Kids suffer a high mortality rate in their early years trying to follow the Nannies around. It is unbeleivable, the terrain they can negotiate and how agile they are on those faces. The young ones have a tough time making it to maturity.

Wolf predation is having a severe impact on Mountain Goats especially in their Winter Range. The snow drives them down off the cliffs into the Timber where the wolves can get at them. Avalanches as well take their toll of Goats.

Harvesting a Big Billy is probably one of the hardest and most dangerous trophies to achieve on the continent given the terrain the Mountain Goat calls home. A Big Billy is usually a hard earned Trophy that a Hunter can be very proud of.

Likely the worst thing a Hunter can do to further decimate the Mountain Goat population is to kill the Nannies and Kid's.

[David Heitsman]

I think PJ was just pointing out that according to the written LEH Authorization, it is legal. He wasn't really advocating such. My sheep bighorn tag in Montana simply said "Any sheep, any age". Sure takes the guesswork out aging / sexing them.

I may have jumped in a little harshly right at the get-go PJ. My apologies to you. Like mentioned earlier, it would be an easier pack. You would need a scalpel to lift the backstraps! LOL

[GoatGuy]

What would be the point of shooting something basically inedible, that wasn't at least mature?

Run in to a few people in BC that shoot goats for meat.

Had a couple that weren't that great, most pretty good, a couple outstanding.

[GoatGuy]

So why do the regs say either sex, any age for the west koots? If the population was hurting so bad, it would say adult only like all the other goat LEH....



I have no intention on shooting a kid, But I am all for supporting guys shooting legal animals. And if this means a guy wants to shoot a kid, good for him. I support it. IF IT'S LEGAL TO DO SO.

All I was looking for was clarification on the regs/LEH...... All of a sudden I get PM's calling me a poacher WTF? That's why I hate this site. Too many righteous people on here. This is by far the worst forum I belong to.


Try to make the regs as easy as possible to follow. Don`t want to make criminals out of the every day guy. If it becomes a conservation issue tags will simply dry up and opportunity reduced or eliminated.

[Ltbullken]

So why do the regs say either sex, any age for the west koots? If the population was hurting so bad, it would say adult only like all the other goat LEH....



I have no intention on shooting a kid, But I am all for supporting guys shooting legal animals. And if this means a guy wants to shoot a kid, good for him. I support it. IF IT'S LEGAL TO DO SO.

All I was looking for was clarification on the regs/LEH...... All of a sudden I get PM's calling me a poacher WTF? That's why I hate this site. Too many righteous people on here. This is by far the worst forum I belong to.


What's legal and what's ethical are 2 different things. Even if it's legal, I would totally call out a hunter out for shooting a kid, given what we know about their populations and heard recovery. Pulling a trigger on a kid is an uneducated, foolish, selfish, and stupid act that will hurt a heard and the respect that hunters try to build everyday for our passion. Am I righteous? Whatever... No amount of sophistry or insipient legal smokescreen will make it right to shoot a kid. You're going to support a guy shooting a kid, then you should expect a LOT of flack for that position because I believe it is abhorrant to most reasoned hunters. Don't like my stance?... look at my avatar!

[Gateholio]

What's legal and what's ethical are 2 different things. Even if it's legal, I would totally call out a hunter out for shooting a kid, given what we know about their populations and heard recovery. Pulling a trigger on a kid is an uneducated, foolish, selfish, and stupid act that will hurt a heard and the respect that hunters try to build everyday for our passion. Am I righteous? Whatever... No amount of sophistry or insipient legal smokescreen will make it right to shoot a kid. You're going to support a guy shooting a kid, then you should expect a LOT of flack for that position because I believe it is abhorrant to most reasoned hunters. Don't like my stance?... look at my avatar!


It's quite possible that shooting a kid is better for the goat population than killing a mature billy. It's possible that shooting a kid is more ethical than shooting a mature goat.

It would be an interesting conversation, anyway.

[sawmill]

It's quite possible that shooting a kid is better for the goat population than killing a mature billy. It's possible that shooting a kid is more ethical than shooting a mature goat.

It would be an interesting conversation, anyway.

The same as antlerless whitey season,they prefer you to take a fawn.

[sawmill]

What's legal and what's ethical are 2 different things. Even if it's legal, I would totally call out a hunter out for shooting a kid, given what we know about their populations and heard recovery. Pulling a trigger on a kid is an uneducated, foolish, selfish, and stupid act that will hurt a heard and the respect that hunters try to build everyday for our passion. Am I righteous? Whatever... No amount of sophistry or insipient legal smokescreen will make it right to shoot a kid. You're going to support a guy shooting a kid, then you should expect a LOT of flack for that position because I believe it is abhorrant to most reasoned hunters. Don't like my stance?... look at my avatar!

Wow,why don`t you just say what you REALLY mean?

[pearljam]

What's legal and what's ethical are 2 different things. Even if it's legal, I would totally call out a hunter out for shooting a kid, given what we know about their populations and heard recovery. Pulling a trigger on a kid is an uneducated, foolish, selfish, and stupid act that will hurt a heard and the respect that hunters try to build everyday for our passion. Am I righteous? Whatever... No amount of sophistry or insipient legal smokescreen will make it right to shoot a kid. You're going to support a guy shooting a kid, then you should expect a LOT of flack for that position because I believe it is abhorrant to most reasoned hunters. Don't like my stance?... look at my avatar!


If the goat population in the Kootenays was hurting as much as you think it is, the LEH draws would be for Adult only, not either sex any age.

I just got off the phone with a CO in Cranbrook. He stated the goat population in the east/west Kootenays is very stong due to the hard access of the areas (hense some MU's opening up to GOS last year). The LEH authorizations allow a hunter to harvest any goat on the mountain. He stated, taking a young goat/kid is no different then taking a fawn during the doe season. (which the wild life branch encourages hunters to do)(what you think is a uneducated, foolish, selfish, and stupid act ) He also said, taking a nanny would do more harm to the population then taking a kid, because you would be removing a breeding animal out of the population.

I have no intentions of ever shooting a kid or nanny while goat hunting, already have a few nice billies on my wall. And i'm sorry that closed minded people like yourself have to turn a simple question into a thread like this.

[bigbear1985]

IVE had goat draws in the last 10 years for the ek and ive taken 3 kids.. 2 female and one male... all yearlings they make for an easy pack out and pretty cool mounts. i have them all life sized on a sort of wall mount.. ill try and post the pics

[steel_ram]

I really doubt anyone sets out on a goat hunt with plans other than to take a Billy. It's what one does when they fail to see a Billy but encounter easier females and kids that makes the difference. It's pretty clear to me and I would think anyone else what the game managers want. A kid may be the lesser of two evils, but still a cop out.

[huntwriter]

Wow, reading this thread shows once again how many "saints" frequent this forum.

Berljam. Just ignore the morons who send you hateful and slanderous PM's. If you react you make their day and make them feel great in their small world.

Remember, hunting is about what you want it to be and not about what others think or say. As long it is legal you're not answerable to anyone but yourself. You do not have to please or impress anyone but yourself. Good luck on your goat hunt.

[huntwriter]

What's legal and what's ethical are 2 different things.

Hogwash. Why do you think the government makes any sex any age licenses available? Because the heard obviously can sustain killing an animal of any sex and any age. Who are you to tell other hunters what's ethical and what not when what they do is perfectly legal.

[steel_ram]

Not making this stuff up to be a "saint". Turn to page 26 of the Hunting Regs. (the magazine with the ducky on the front) and read that female goats are sensitive to harvest. If you shoot a kid, you may have left the nanny alone. That same lone nanny may now be considered a legal target for the next hunter since regs only make females in a group illegal.

[huntcoop]

Why the hell would anybody want to shoot a kid??

...or a nanny.

[happyhunter]

If the regs encourage people to shoot a billy why would they want you to shoot a kid wherein its much more difficult to determine sex?