Safety on.......or depress the trigger!!!

[Buckmaster123]

There has been some discussion on wether to have one in the chamber or not, well this got me thinking about some of the comments regarding depressing the trigger so the firing pin is not engaged. This used to be my practice, but earlier this spring while bear hunting with a new partner who is an X-Austrian special forces sniper, I learned a valuable lesson the easy way I guess. While gearing up at the truck and about to set out on or hunt, I loaded my gun, depressed the trigger.......then my partner said to me "what the hell are you doing". Confused, I asked him what he was referring to and then he explained to me that he has seen people seriously injured with such practice. He explained to me that the firing pin is free floating in that manner and if you fall or drop the rifle in just the right way, that the firing pin can strike the primmer hard enough to set off the load. He said with one in the chamber, one should simply put on the safety and call it good, as with the safety on, the firing pin is secured and can not strike the primmer!!!! I am no expert, and will never claim to be one, but he is, and ever since that day, I've changed my one in the chamber practice. I was wondering if anybody out there can substantiate his explanation, is this true? It sounded logical to me when he explained it, but is there a gun smith out there who can clarify this potential safety concern.

[levind]

I always use safety with a loaded gun. i depress the trigger when gun is unloaded and not being used (hold trigger then close bolt) not sure if that is the same depressing as what you are talking about. didnt think you could depress a trigger with on in the chamber.

[Buckmaster123]

I guess I should have clarified myself a little better, thanks. I used to depress the trigger by holding the trigger, and then close the bolt with on in the chamber, the same manner as you store your rifle, and myself as well! This releases the firing pin so it's not engaged, with or without one in the chamber. This is how I used to hunt, but now have changed my ways after being educated, I thought I would share my story, as I have read that other people in the post "One in the Chamber" have been hunting!

[BernDawg]

"Ease springs" empty chamber only....

[Gateholio]

It costs alot of money to design and furnish a rifle with a safe safety. If depressing the trigger was a safe practice, gun manufacturers would reccomend it and save lots of money.

Your buddy is 100% correct- it's not a safe practice and it's rather pointless, as flicking a safety switch is a fairly simple and easy process.

[bearhunter338-06]

When walking to a specific area I carry my rifle with the magazine full and chamber empty. When stalking through the bush I have one in the chamber and safety on. I use to carry my rifle the same as you have described, until on of my hunting buddies explained to me that working the safety is a lot quicker and quieter then moving the bolt handle to re cock the rifle.

[308Lover]

My safety is projecting enough that it has caught on clothing (moving from one shoulder to the other, carrying with a sling)and came into the off position once.I don't trust mine, so I chamber a round when ready to stalk--not perfect for noise, but safer.

[levind]

i guess it depends the gun also i have seen someone depress the trigger while a round was in the chamber and the gun went off. lucky he always keeps the gun pointed in a safe direction when handling a gun but dont think that works with all guns. my steyr has a double safety first position like any other safety second position plus push down on the bolt handle and it disengages the firing pin. I use the second safety mostly when hunting with someone as it can not be taken out of safety with out depressing the button on the safety and rotating at the same time.

[308Lover]

As far as firing a rifle that supposedly has a "free-floating firing pin" because the trigger has been released, modern gunsmiths have tested this by bashing rifles around, and failed to make this occur. Except for some WW1 rifles when .303's had a projecting firing pin, I have not heard of a single instance in modern times where someone has caused a rifle to fire when the trigger has been "released" by depressing the trigger while closing the bolt on a round in the chamber. I did, however, in the late 1960's, close a round in someone elses rifle while depressing the trigger AND IT FIRED! Not all rifles can be handled this way, apparently. Unfortunately I cannot remember the make or model of rifle this was. It was pointed down and away in a safe manner for this foolish exercise.I vote for safety, in any case.

[Buckmaster123]

This friend of mine told me that a guy he was Guiding down in New Zealand did not believe him, so he asked him if he minded him demonstrating it for him (You'd have to know him to believe him), so he grabbed the gun and through it against the ground stalk first and it went off!!!!!!! This sounds crazy to me, as who would ever let them do this to there rifle, and how can one assure themselves that if it did go off, that it would be facing the right way!!! He stated that the guys was a rich cocky American, and that he had handled enough rifles in his life time to feel confident and safe enough to demonstrating this!! So I'm not sure if it's certain rifles that this can happen to, or if he is the best BS I have ever known, but one thing I know, is that a person can never say never, when weird things do happen on occasion.

[warnniklz]

I was taught in my C.O.R.E. class back in ought two, that most safeties on rifles were mechanical and only stopped the trigger operation, not the release of the firing pin. With the safety on, the firing pin could still be operated if it was bumped or banged.

There are guys out there that have an old mauser action that has a winged safety. A scope is usually mounted and does not allow for enough clearance for the safety to work, therefore they just "depress" the trigger.

I'm comfortable around both options. Just don't be a doucher and point your gun at me loaded or unloaded.

[todbartell]

nobody likes a doucher

[SimilkameenSlayer]

nobody likes a doucher

true .....

[TSW]

I used to just depress the trigger and hunt with one in the chamber, until one day I looked at my cartridge and saw that the primer had visible markings from making contact with the firing pin. Obviously not enough to set it off, but then I hadn't really fallen with it or anything to jar it enough. Just seeing that made me feel safer going with the "safety on" technique instead.

[brian]

Just to make things complicated, my father in laws gun once went boom when he released his safety. It was a mechanical problem with the rifle. So the unexpected boom of a 300 win mag taught me the importance that muzzle control is the only real safety there is.

[longstonec]

I use an BSA Majestic whose safety WANTS to come off safe. you can look at it and it pops off safe.(almost) I have always carried with a round chambered and then trigger depress bolt close OR nothing chambered. I have heard of this rifle firing with the safety safe. I am always very careful despite the fact that I hunt solo. I like my face.

[Moose Guide]

I have never see a bolt action rifle with a free floating firing pin! If you depress the trigger and close the bolt the firing pin is protruding and held out by the spring which puts it hard against the primer! My rifles all have bolt stop safeties, but safe gun handling is key in safe hunting!!!

[Darksith]

why on earth would one have 1 in the chamber and not have the firing pin cocked? Seems a little crazy, might as well have the chamber empty. I always have safety on with 1 in the chamber, only time I ease the firing pin is when the gun is empty and being put away.

[sneg]

it take just a moment to chamber cartridge in. with little practice you can do it while mounting your gun, taking off covers from your scope,asquiring your target and so on. i never put in chamber till about ready to shoot and ask my buddiies to do the same. do we use safety -Yes, do we trust it -No. depressing trigger practice and carry it in the bush,where gun can snug on anything is irresponsible. have seen as safe rifles as Blazer goes off unintentionally.

[emerson]

The act of pulling the trigger while chambering a live
round every time you load is like refusing to wear a seat
belt so you will be thrown clear. Dumb and poorly
thought out. Then trying to cock the action quickly while
not ejecting the round in the chamber..... Why is carrying
with a chambered round and safety on so scary? Crossing
the center line while driving will just as quickly, but using
stereos, phones, gps, drinking coffee, eating while driving,
etc. don't seem to be regarded in the same light.

[horshur]

Why is carrying
with a chambered round and safety on so scary?.

the word "safety" is a misnomer...if the firearm was safe with the "Safety" engaged then you all wouldn't worry about muzzle control......

this whole debate hinges on personal experience with green and seasoned hunters....muzzle control is poor on average...and remains or degrades if the individual hunts alone for he then has no incetive or practice for muzzle control. spend some time at the range with a range officer..how do they ensure safety? Spend some time guiding..how can you ensure that you and your hunter are going to be safe? Try hunting with youth, what sort of example need to be set for long term good habits?

it goes without saying that the firearm is safer "Underloaded" in all circumstances.

[dingdongdenny]

the only safe gun is an unloaded gun. Ie as nothing in the chamber. anything mechanical can and will break down , so anybody i hunt with has nothing in the chamber, or i don't hunt with them period.

[srupp]

x2..

Steven

[oscar makonka]

I have never see a bolt action rifle with a free floating firing pin! If you depress the trigger and close the bolt the firing pin is protruding and held out by the spring which puts it hard against the primer! My rifles all have bolt stop safeties, but safe gun handling is key in safe hunting!!!

Exactly. People who close the bolt while pulling the trigger are letting the firing pin under nearly full pressure of the firing pin spring with the tip of the pin pushing hard directly on the live primer of a loaded shell. The firing pin does not float around inside the bolt, firing pins in bolt action rifles are always under pressure regardless of whether they are cocked or uncocked. What you have is the point or head of the firing pin with anywhere from 20 to 40 pounds of spring pressure pushing the firing pin tip directly onto the primer at all times. A good smack to the bolt handle or bolt shroud from dropping the rifle or banging it into something could easily cause it to fire.

[Timberjack]

There has been some discussion on wether to have one in the chamber or not, well this got me thinking about some of the comments regarding depressing the trigger so the firing pin is not engaged. This used to be my practice, but earlier this spring while bear hunting with a new partner who is an X-Austrian special forces sniper, I learned a valuable lesson the easy way I guess. While gearing up at the truck and about to set out on or hunt, I loaded my gun, depressed the trigger.......then my partner said to me "what the hell are you doing". Confused, I asked him what he was referring to and then he explained to me that he has seen people seriously injured with such practice. He explained to me that the firing pin is free floating in that manner and if you fall or drop the rifle in just the right way, that the firing pin can strike the primmer hard enough to set off the load. He said with one in the chamber, one should simply put on the safety and call it good, as with the safety on, the firing pin is secured and can not strike the primmer!!!! I am no expert, and will never claim to be one, but he is, and ever since that day, I've changed my one in the chamber practice. I was wondering if anybody out there can substantiate his explanation, is this true? It sounded logical to me when he explained it, but is there a gun smith out there who can clarify this potential safety concern.

Your buddy is bang on with his advice. without the safety on the firing pin could hit the primer hard enough to fire the cartridge...

And I should say that I only hunt with one in the cahmber if I'm by myself...

TJ

[olharley guy]

why on earth would one have 1 in the chamber and not have the firing pin cocked? Seems a little crazy, might as well have the chamber empty. I always have safety on with 1 in the chamber, only time I ease the firing pin is when the gun is empty and being put away.

Howdy, I am with you on this -I have read all this half a dozen times and can't figure out why you would have a shell in the chamber with the firing pin not being able to work when you pull on the trigger and close the bolt at the same time?

Unless it was an old cooey .22 where you could pull the knob at the end of the firing pin to take a shot.

If I did that to my .300 I would have to work the bolt to make the firing pin active and the one in the chamber would be laying on the ground - now I only have 2 shots instead of three in case something exciting was happening.

What's the scoop here or am I reading these posts wrong? Later

[Buckmaster123]

People wonder why one in the chamber while depressing the trigger, well over the years of packing this one rifle, I noticed that the safety was popping off while hiking around the bush for who knows how long. This kinda freaked me out knowing that a branch could have set it off right next to my head......... So I felt that depressing the trigger with one in the chamber was quicker while getting ready for a fast shot. Now to each there own wether you have one in the chamber or not, but that was my method with that rifle, and since then I have started using another rifle with a much better safety. On another point, the firing pin is not sticking out when I depress the trigger and close the bolt of my CZ 550 or my remington 700!

[olharley guy]

Howdy, point in question-firing pin is not sticking out and one in the chamber? In a dire situation you have a useless live shell in the chamber and have to work the bolt to activate the firing pin again and the one that was in the chamber has hit the ground ? At least that is what would happen with my model 700. later

[Morel]

I am reasonably new to shooting but from all of the reading I have done, I have no hesitation with the conclusion that leaving the firing pin resting on the primer of a live cartridge is just a bad idea. Unless the manufacturer's instructions specifically state that the gun was designed for this as a safety mechanism (none to my knowledge), it is not a safety! I am aware that some modern gun designs effectively disengage the firing pin from spring or other tension under some conditions as a safety mechanism but this is not a general rule.
Some guns, such as the the Uzi, fire from an open bolt - the firing pin is fixed and hits the primer when the round is chambered causing the round to go bang. The bolt is not kept closed on a live round (rounds remain in the magazine until being removed and fired). With my rifle, and likely many others, closing the bolt with the firing pin extended is flirting with disaster; the firing pin protrudes enough to hit the primer but the bolt is being closed with somewhat less momentum and the primer is not detonated. Perhaps if you close the bolt gently, the protruding firing pin is not a problem. This is not an experiment I want to try with my rifle and a live round.

Many guns are designed with safety features specifically designed to keep the hammer or firing pin from coming in contact with a primer until the user wishes the gun to go bang. The half-cock position on some lever guns and colt-style single action revolvers is a safety position to keep the hammer spur or firing pin from resting on a live round - all that bumpy horseback riding or a fall could result in an unintended bang. In addition, old single action revolvers with 6 chambers are generally only loaded with 5 rounds and the hammer rests on an empty cylinder for the same reason; to keep the firing pin off a live round (I realize this is not a handgun or restricted weapons forum but the principles are the same).

[Mauser98]

on another point, the firing pin is not sticking out when I depress the trigger and close the bolt of my CZ 550 or my remington 700!

Are you sure? How do you know? When my 98's are off-cock, the firing pin extends abour .050"

[Buckmaster123]

Howdy, point in question-firing pin is not sticking out and one in the chamber? In a dire situation you have a useless live shell in the chamber and have to work the bolt to activate the firing pin again and the one that was in the chamber has hit the ground ? At least that is what would happen with my model 700. later

With my rifle all I do is lift the bolt and put it back down with out drawing it back, the bullet in the chamber stayed in the chamber, no bullet hit the ground, and the one that was in there was ready to fire in a quarter of the time!

[oscar makonka]

On another point, the firing pin is not sticking out when I depress the trigger and close the bolt of my CZ 550 or my remington 700!

The firing pin is not sticking out at the back of the bolt shroud because the firing pin has moved ahead to the uncocked or fired position with the tip of the firing pin sticking out through the firing pin hole on the front of the bolt face resting directly on the primer of a loaded shell with over 20 pounds of pressure on the pin tip which is pushing directly on the live primer. In the uncocked position a remington 700, CZ or pretty much any other modern bolt action centerfire the firing pin is not free floating and is always under heavy spring tension wether it is cocked or uncocked. Take your model 700 and close the bolt, notice that when you close the bolt the bolt handle and bolt body turns yet the bolt shroud at the back of the bolt does not turn and you will see that the back end of the firing pin is in the cocked position with either the back end of the firing pin or the cocking indicator stays visible in the cocked position at the back of the bolt shroud. Next open the bolt and close it slowly with the safety off while pulling the trigger, watch the cocking indicator or the back of the firing pin, it moves ahead to the fired position as you close the bolt. In that position the firing pin assebly moves ahead and the pin tip protrudes through the firing pin hole in the front of the bolt face if the chamber is empty, if you have a live round in the chamber the primer of the chambered cartridge takes all the force of the firing pin and prevents the pin from protruding through the bolt face. To replicate what is going on take the bolt out of the rifle and twist and rotate the bolt shroud, it will take a little effort, to the same position it is when the bolt is in the rifle with the bolt closed. Now look at the bolt face and notice the firing pin sticking out through the firing pin hole in the front of the bolt face. This is the uncocked position your are putting the rifle in when you pull the trigger and close the bolt. take your finger and try to push the firing pin tip back into the bolt. You will see that it is not free floating or relaxed. In fact you will see that it is mighty hard to even move the pin back in the hole at all, that uncocked pin is under a lot of pressure. Now take a live loaded round and put it up against the bolt face with the primer on the pin tip and try to push the pin tip back flush with the bolt face. bet you don't feel comfortable doing that and think it is a downright stupid thing for a sane man to do. This is exactly what you are doing when when you pull the trigger and close the bolt on a live round in the chamber. That primer is under a lot of pressure from the uncocked firing pin, a bump to the bolt and don't be surprised if it fires.

[olharley guy]

Howdy, have to admit Buckmaster123-you are right about just lifting the bolt and the 300 mag 700 is ready to fire but in the 30+ years I have used this rifle I have never even thought of having a live round up the tube and doing that procedure.

Either MT chamber or ready to go with the safety on. Oscar's and others explanation's are good enough for me to keep doing what I have been doing.

You learn something everyday and I don't think this was in the owners manual when I bought the rifle. Sorry about putting this reply on a seperate posting.

Later

[Ltbullken]

Some firing pins will also be locked forward under spring tension, using that method, which is even worse!! You might notice a light score mark on your primer when you do this. Even if the firing pin has some slack in it, by doing the close the bolt and depress trigger option, you are indicating that it is okay to NOT have positive control over the firing pin with a live round in your chamber... basically this is a potentially fatal flaw in this method. Also, consider if there is a problem with your firing pin - gummed up, cold weather, etc., as Remingtons have been noted to be prone to - and you go to close your bolt, trigger depressed but the firing pin hangs up... now it is just waiting for a bump to go off. Further, as you are closing the bolt, the same could happen while the bolt lugs are not in the fully locked position... also a potentially fatal flaw in this method.

Either go with the safety on or if you are so concerned, just forget loading a round in the chamber.

[Rubberknot]

If you're having doubts about what is safe and what isn't in regards to the construction of firearm "safety mechanisms", then don't put one in the chamber, discussion over.

[deer nut]

Agreee that it would be a safety issue. I'm not sure what useful purpose having one in the chamber with the pin release would serve? The whole idea is to be able to release the safety and fire - otherwise why have one in the chamber?

[SAVAGE300]

When I am hunting alone I have 1 in the chamber and safty on, but the safty is checked constantly, ie after walking thru a patch of smallish trees tall grass etc. When with my buddies none in the chamber as with all of us, but just to add, I only put 4 rounds in the magazine , always have. Just because when I emty the gun to put it away I want to make sure I have 4 rounds in my hand, just my 2 bits

[Ltbullken]

The firing pin is not sticking out at the back of the bolt shroud because the firing pin has moved ahead to the uncocked or fired position with the tip of the firing pin sticking out through the firing pin hole on the front of the bolt face resting directly on the primer of a loaded shell with over 20 pounds of pressure on the pin tip which is pushing directly on the live primer. In the uncocked position a remington 700, CZ or pretty much any other modern bolt action centerfire the firing pin is not free floating and is always under heavy spring tension wether it is cocked or uncocked. Take your model 700 and close the bolt, notice that when you close the bolt the bolt handle and bolt body turns yet the bolt shroud at the back of the bolt does not turn and you will see that the back end of the firing pin is in the cocked position with either the back end of the firing pin or the cocking indicator stays visible in the cocked position at the back of the bolt shroud. Next open the bolt and close it slowly with the safety off while pulling the trigger, watch the cocking indicator or the back of the firing pin, it moves ahead to the fired position as you close the bolt. In that position the firing pin assebly moves ahead and the pin tip protrudes through the firing pin hole in the front of the bolt face if the chamber is empty, if you have a live round in the chamber the primer of the chambered cartridge takes all the force of the firing pin and prevents the pin from protruding through the bolt face. To replicate what is going on take the bolt out of the rifle and twist and rotate the bolt shroud, it will take a little effort, to the same position it is when the bolt is in the rifle with the bolt closed. Now look at the bolt face and notice the firing pin sticking out through the firing pin hole in the front of the bolt face. This is the uncocked position your are putting the rifle in when you pull the trigger and close the bolt. take your finger and try to push the firing pin tip back into the bolt. You will see that it is not free floating or relaxed. In fact you will see that it is mighty hard to even move the pin back in the hole at all, that uncocked pin is under a lot of pressure. Now take a live loaded round and put it up against the bolt face with the primer on the pin tip and try to push the pin tip back flush with the bolt face. bet you don't feel comfortable doing that and think it is a downright stupid thing for a sane man to do. This is exactly what you are doing when when you pull the trigger and close the bolt on a live round in the chamber. That primer is under a lot of pressure from the uncocked firing pin, a bump to the bolt and don't be surprised if it fires.


XXX friggin' 2!! Why anyone would close the bolt on a live round understanding that there is a firing pin under tension against the primer is beyond me!! So dangerous...

[MikeH]

Just follow proper firearms safety.Round in the spout safety on, cutting corners gets people hurt.

[The Dude]

What would be the advantage in doing that in the first place? You would have to cycle the action to engage the spring on the firing pin before you could fire. Then the next round would want to feed up from the magazine, which you'd have to push back to re-chamber the first round. Sounds like a cluster......pluck.
You're not saving time or effort, and definitely making a lot more noise than just having a round chambered and the safety on.
My old 30-06 had a wing safety, and would constantly get bumped off when walking, so I retired it. My Husky has a tang safety which i love. Positive lock, nice and quiet, and ready to go on foot. Why mess with perfection? :D