Pins and their placement (achery question)

[BiG Boar]

Hi guys,
I am always trying to get my sight pins just perfect for my compound bow. What I am wondering is weather the pins should be equally staggered apart (20-30-40-50-60), or weather the gap should increase as you go further down the pins. I can think of reasons for both, but it must be one or the other, I am favoring choice B as the arrow should be slowing down.

[threedhunter]

you must actually shoot your bow to find the point of impact at each distance and adjust your pins to match.shooting at 20 , then moving them equal spacing is asking for troubles.
wounding is not an option.

[Ddog]

its a great question, but on my bow i have only 3 pins, 30, 40, 50yards and when i look at them they are pretty equally spaced, there is a slight hair difference on my friends bow that has 20-60yard pins but pretty close. i would imagine at greater distances the pins should be farther apart because of the speed.

[BiG Boar]

I just thought screw on a good sharp tip and fling it. I mean long bows don't even have sights, right? Plus my bow is super fast so I can almost use one pin out to 40 yards.

I understand that you must find the impact point of each pin.

Can anyone actually answer the question?

Wounding is for losers.

[BiG Boar]

I think Ddog is right. Mine seem to be equal spacing, but I wondering more for pin stacking.

[Bow Walker]

You're right in that the speed of the bow has a lot to do with pin gap. My bow shoots int he 250-ish fps range and my pins do get noticeably further apart after the 30 yard mark.

Today's fast bows a quite capable of having just one pin to allow you to shoot out to around the 40-ish yard mark. The drop in trajectory after that will happen - it's just not as definite as it is with slower bows.

Get out somewhere that you can step back to at east 60 yards and start shooting at the 20 yard mark (if you've got one of those speed demons) get the pin dead on at 20 yards and then move out ten yards at a time, shooting with the same pin. See how the point of impact slowly drops out of the bull. When you fet to a spot where the P.O.I. drops enough that you've got to move the pin - that's where your second pin will be.

Repeat for the number of pins on your sight and you should probably end up with something like a set up that is 20 (or maybe 30), then 40, then 50 then 60...

[RoscoeP]

From the Spott-Hogg instructions. Method 2: "Sight in the 40 yd pin, by moving the pin gaurd up, down, and side to side until the 40 yd pin is impacting spot on. Then use the individual pin adjustments to sight in the other pins. using this method the pins will have a more even spread across the pin guard." That was word for word from Spott-Hogg. Method 1: was sighting in the 20 yd pin first. Method 3: is using the bubble as an extra pin. Cheers Roscoe

[Ambush]

Short answer. Yes your gap will increase exponentialy as your distance increases.
Put your middle pin slightly above centre and sight that one first by moving the whole housing. Then do the rest by moving the pins.

[BiG Boar]

Thanks everyone.
Another question would be, how much speed does an arrow scrub off at 50 yards and at 100 yards?

[Bow Walker]

No one has done 'ballistics' on arrow speed and/or KE over the useful shooting yardage of any given shaft. With so many variables that go into building an arrow it's almost impossible to get the data.

[Bowzone_Mikey]

to the oringinal Question I concur with Ambush 100%


Thanks everyone.
Another question would be, how much speed does an arrow scrub off at 50 yards and at 100 yards?

that varys depending upon arrow construction, Fletching and for that matter points used

for example I can build 2 arrows identical except build one 1" longer than the other and can have as much as 15 fps differance at 50 yards simply based on how the string transfers the energy to the arrow and how well that arrow absorbs and retains that energy Reasoning: the longer one might be underspined because of the extra lenth and therefore bleed the energy off by acting slightly like a wet noodle ...

Make sense?

Fletching changes dependant upon style, angle ..... construction etc.... the more its angled (2 degrees or 4 degree) the 4 degree will created more drag than the 2 degree fletching and rob the arrow of forward motion ....

differant points make a differance based solely upon shape and the amount of drag it creates .... a long skinny tapered point will fly through the air alot easier than a blunt ....

Hope that helps answer you ???

[bugler]

The rate of drop will increase as you go down range, but the gap between your pins covers a lot more vertical inches the farther you go away from the target. So I've always found that my pins appear to be pretty evenly spaced. I have 4 pins, 20 to 50 yards with 10 yard spacing.

And if the "one pin to 40 yards" thing ain't really working don't be too depressed. Most people who do that have to hold a little high at 40 and a little low at 20. It's a bow, the arrow arcs. They learn how much to hold up or down with practice.

[BiG Boar]

I see, well thanks for the answers again guys. I am heading over now with my bow to go try to stick a big black bear or a buck!

[Nobody]

Initial speed and terminal speed are dependant on the total make-up and effeciency of each and every component of your equipment. I will give you an example:

Initial speed (at bow): 320fps Kinetic energy: 71.3
Terminal speed: @50yds: 287.23fps Kinetic energy: 57.4 @100yds: 257.36fps Kinetic energy: 46.1
Total drop: @50yds: 43 inches @100yds: 186.3 inches
Drop per yard at target: @50yds: 1.8 inches @100yds: 4.0 inches

If I were to change anything at all, be it arrow length, point weight, nocks, fletch length or even the brand of fletch etc on my arrow or make any change at all to my bow in any way.......these numbers will change for better or worse. Making any change to any part of your equipment (this includes your release aid) is critical to the arrows impact point. Whatever equipment configuration you choose to run, the most important thing to remember is that you must ensure that your arrows are perfectly matched one-to-the-other. Have fun.....be safe.

[qhergt]

I have mine set at 10 yards apart starting at 10 (10, 20,30,40,50) Im shooting a fairly fast bow (Mathews Switchback, IBO rated at 318 although I have yet to shoot though a Chrony )I did this because I like to hunt both small and big game and Id like to start shooting 3D and I figured this set up would be the best and easiest to remember

[Riverbc]

I have mine set at 10 yards apart starting at 10 (10, 20,30,40,50) Im shooting a fairly fast bow (Mathews Switchback, IBO rated at 318 although I have yet to shoot though a Chrony )I did this because I like to hunt both small and big game and Id like to start shooting 3D and I figured this set up would be the best and easiest to remember

I'm not sure what your draw weight , draw length, or weight of arrow are, but the first pin would be fine for 1-20 yards, in hunting or 3D.

[qhergt]

I'm not sure what your draw weight , draw length, or weight of arrow are, but the first pin would be fine for 1-20 yards, in hunting or 3D.
70# 28" draw 340 spined arrows 9.3 gpi 29" with 100g heads for approx 370 grains weight. 20 yard pin will work from 1-20 yards and still put me within an inch of where I am aiming. But for close range shooting of small game I sure like to have that 10 yard pin as i find my blunts kill best with headshots

[Riverbc]

64# pull, 28 " draw, shooting Gold Tip Expedition Hunters cut to 26 1/4", with blazer vanes, and 100 grain heads, for a total of 356 grains. I am bang on from 9-20 feet with same pin..I haven't shot anything closer. I wonder if my lighter arrows are the difference? When I made the switch to blazer vanes, my POI was at least an inch higher at 20 yards, than the standard vanes.

[jmo]

I don't quite understand the whole point of one pin up to 40 yards. I shoot one of the faster bows out there(bowtech invasion at 83.2 lbs) and I still have all of my pins at ten yard increments starting at 20 yards. I would definetely be shooting low with my 20 yard pin at 40 yards. I just dont see the benefit of the whole one pin thing. Just me.

[Bow Walker]

70# 28" draw 340 spined arrows 9.3 gpi 29" with 100g heads for approx 370 grains weight. 20 yard pin will work from 1-20 yards and still put me within an inch of where I am aiming. But for close range shooting of small game I sure like to have that 10 yard pin as i find my blunts kill best with headshots
ghert - if I do the math right your arrows should be coming in at closer to 417 grains than 370. Shaft - 260 to 270(ish), insert - 15, tip - 100, fletching - 20, and nock - 10 to 14.......all adds up to more than 370 grains.

But it's the fight of the finished arrow that counts. Oh yeah, and the shooter.

[qhergt]

ghert - if I do the math right your arrows should be coming in at closer to 417 grains than 370. Shaft - 260 to 270(ish), insert - 15, tip - 100, fletching - 20, and nock - 10 to 14.......all adds up to more than 370 grains.

But it's the fight of the finished arrow that counts. Oh yeah, and the shooter.
I find im getting about a 1/2-3/4" drop from 10-20 yards when using 100g blunts (bludgeons)

[Bow Walker]

I find im getting about a 1/2-3/4" drop from 10-20 yards when using 100g blunts (bludgeons)
Most likely due to the shape of the bludgeon tip. It's not aerodynamic in the least.

[Bowzone_Mikey]

I don't quite understand the whole point of one pin up to 40 yards. I shoot one of the faster bows out there(bowtech invasion at 83.2 lbs) and I still have all of my pins at ten yard increments starting at 20 yards. I would definetely be shooting low with my 20 yard pin at 40 yards. I just dont see the benefit of the whole one pin thing. Just me.
That phrase is nothing more than marketing hype ..... you could use 1 pin for all distances ... just know where to hold pin ...

one pin to 40 usually means zero a pin at 30 and high for 40 and low for 20

[Bowzone_Mikey]

70# 28" draw 340 spined arrows 9.3 gpi 29" with 100g heads for approx 370 grains weight. 20 yard pin will work from 1-20 yards and still put me within an inch of where I am aiming. But for close range shooting of small game I sure like to have that 10 yard pin as i find my blunts kill best with headshots
I would recheck those poi at all yardages if i were you

[qhergt]

I would recheck those poi at all yardages if i were you
sent you a PM, But I may as well post it here as well...

I went and did just that. with my 100g 1 1/8" Slicktrick broadheads my first pin is shooting dead center out to 20 yards consistently. But with 100g points at 20 yards Im having them hit about 8" low and im having to use my second pin which for my BH's is dead center at 30.

Basically, the way my pins are set now for points its 10,20,30,40,50 and BH 20,30,40,50,60 (although I haven't dialed in the last 2 pins perfectly yet) Im going to be getting some new strings as these are the original ones and they are starting to frey a bit and it seems to be shooting slower then it did a few months ago.


Iv been having major issues getting the bow to group the BH and points together as well. Have had it centered at the local bow shop, and paper tuned with points and it was shooting perfectly straight. But the BH's would be about 10" right. I moved my rest over to the left about a 1/16" and re shot a bh and point. I tried moving the rest over a a bit more but started to see a tail kick when I shot though paper so I backed it off.

BH and points started to shoot closer together, but still shot noticeably separate groups. Its hunting season anyway, so I just adjusted the windage on the sight so they were shooting center. I walked back and shot and pin 1 was good to 20 yards, 2 to 30, and 3 to 40. (again, with points this ended up being 10y, 20y, 30y)


Only thing I can think of is that those 4 blade fixed BH's are stabilizing the arrow flight by acting like a wing.

Im shooting a 2008 Mathews Switchback Solocam.
Draw is 28"@70# (maxed limbs out and they are 70# limbs, not sure of exact weight but its definitely between 65-70)
29" .340 spine, blazer fletched arrows (easton powerflights 9.3gpi)

[Bowzone_Mikey]

OK I sent you a PM back .... Obviously I miss understood what you were saying ..... From what I interpreted .. you stated that your top pin would do all distances from 1 yard to 20 yards ..... That simply isnt true .... At 1 yard i just put my stab on the target 6" below where I wanna hit it ;) 2 yard shot is a 70 ish pin etc.... if I put my 20 yard pin on the X ring of a gator at 2 yards I am lucky to cut an 8 line

Re-reading you post ... you have a 28 draw ... and 29" arrows .... Yep ... I would cut close to an inch off them as I think you are weak spined ... and that is causing you 10" off FP POI issue .... or look at .300 spine ....

The switch back is an aggresive solo cam bow ... it likes stiffer spined arrows ....
... get the shop to cut an inch off one of your arrows and put a FP on it ... zero ... put a BH on it and it should be a ton closer if not the same .... also make certain that the insert is glued in Perfectly square .... That would would cause a world of grief as well with BHs

[mntbowhunter]

Speaking of pin gap did anyone read that article in the Eastmans bowhunting journal about the website where you plug your bow type in, poundage, arrow length/weight etc and it will give you a printout of what your pin gap should be so really you only have to sight your 20 yard pin in and the rest you just line up with the printout? Seems pretty cool actually. I cant remember what the site was called but I am sure with a little bit of google looking it would be easy to find.

[Bowzone_Mikey]

Speaking of pin gap did anyone read that article in the Eastmans bowhunting journal about the website where you plug your bow type in, poundage, arrow length/weight etc and it will give you a printout of what your pin gap should be so really you only have to sight your 20 yard pin in and the rest you just line up with the printout? Seems pretty cool actually. I cant remember what the site was called but I am sure with a little bit of google looking it would be easy to find.

TAP(the Archery Program) Archers Advantage, Pinwheel software ... about 5 or 6 other notable programs out there that will do the same thing .... I believe you are talking Pinwheel ... its good as long you get an accurate measurment on your peep height, and sight bar distance .... if the numbers in the program are good for your particular bow ... I have found that a 20/60 method works better for archery ballistic software ... or just marking my own. I have used alot of programs for sight tapes

[Bow Walker]

The switch back is an aggresive solo cam bow ... it likes stiffer spined arrows ....
... get the shop to cut an inch off one of your arrows and put a FP on it ... zero ... put a BH on it and it should be a ton closer if not the same .... also make certain that the insert is glued in Perfectly square .... That would would cause a world of grief as well with BHs

Great advice for the arrow length/spine problem. Today's arrow rest are almost all mounted in such a way that the actual rest for the arrow can be as much as 2 inches behind the arrow shelf. That fact allows for a slightly weaker spined arrow shaft - BUT - they have to be cut correctly to work properly.

My draw length is right in the 28" to 28.5" area, yet my arrows are cut to 26 3/8" before I add inserts, tips, or nocks.

Another point is to be certain that your broadheads are tuned to your arrow shaft. About the only way to do this is to get an arrow spinner, assemble the arrow with your broadhead (or field tip) and put the arrow in the spinner - give it a few spins and check for any wobble at the point end and the nock end.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Pine_Ridge_Arrow_Spinner1.jpg


If there is any wobble you cn usually correct it by taking the tip off and putting it back on again. Careful not to over-tighten the point onto the insert or you run the risk of loosening the insert - but you do want the heads tight to the shaft.

Slick Tricks are notorious for being a bit finicky to tune to the arrow shaft. Mainly because the little washer can magnify any defects in either the shaft or the insert. So make sure your arrow shafts are square and your inserts are square.

Square up "store cut" arrow shafts at home with a bit of sand paper. Square up the inserts the same way. OR...you could go out and buy G5's Arrow Squaring Device, which will do it for you.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/ASD.jpg

[Bow Walker]

The arrow spinner is made by "Pine Ridge" - it's the inexpensive one, but it works very, very well.

[qhergt]

Ok, so I went into the back yard and shot some arrows... shot a 400 spined Beeman ICS camohunter 26" 9.1gpi with a 100g field point. An easton powerflight 340 29" with 100g field point and the same arrow with a 100g slick trick. I shot all 3 using my top pin (10y point pin, 20y bh pin) I did this 4 times with pretty much the same results. This was shot from approx 20 yards again using my top pin. Top arrow is the BH. The outer ring is 4.5" in diameter. As you can see the field point on the easton arrow is shooting approx 2.5" low of the BH when both are shot using the top pin at 20y




http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/292075_10150895994155607_512865606_21517958_131478 6042_n.jpg

heres a photo of my sight



http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296077_10150895999835607_512865606_21517991_295160 774_n.jpg

I have some new custom string and cable set on order from "worlds best string" where on the island would be the best place to take my bow in to have the set changed out and properly set up?

[Bow Walker]

There appear to be some tuning issues going on that don't "jump" out at me right away. I'd need to have the bow in-hand and have you shooting it to try and figure out what's going on.

As for the new strings - you can go into Island Outfitters and have them put the strings on (they've at least got a proper press) but as for the tuning issues........well, I'd try to make an appointment with Eagle1 for that stuff. PM him and see if he can help you.

[qhergt]

thanks for the info....

I posted my issues on the Mathews forum and it was mentioned that mu knock point could be to low and that the idler lean should be checked

[Bowzone_Mikey]

thanks for the info....

I posted my issues on the Mathews forum and it was mentioned that mu knock point could be to low and that the idler lean should be checked
that would be my first thought .... all things being equal (shot execution)

try shooting however with the same arrow .... shooting 3 differant breeds of arrows really doesnt tell us alot

[qhergt]

that would be my first thought .... all things being equal (shot execution)

try shooting however with the same arrow .... shooting 3 differant breeds of arrows really doesnt tell us alot

when I shoot the .340 spined 29" eastons, this is what I get at 30 yards after I have warmed up. I believe thats 6 or 7 arrows. Field points obviously. Again this is using my 3rd pin. BH at that distance I use the 2nd pin to hit the 10 ring. Although I pull the arrow after each shot so I don't break other arrows. The bh group is obviously a bit wider, but all make it within that 4.5" bull on the target I posted a photo of above.


http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302655_10150859886215607_512865606_21271001_147592 8082_n.jpg
Just to clarify, My issue now is that the points are hitting 2.5" lower then the BH when I use the same pin for both at any given distance. (When I use 29" .340 spined arrows with 100g tips) Both arrows are the exact same length, spine and have 100g tips. Top one is a 100g Slicktrick BH
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/315993_10150899749965607_512865606_21538633_333699 360_n.jpg

[Bowzone_Mikey]

probally an arrow squareness issue or blade planing fighting the fletching

you are certain they weigh the same right.... you dont have 85 grain FP and 100 Grian BHs???? it may sound like a dumb question ... but lemme tell you ... its a valid one ....

if you really dont want to resight for BHs and FPs ... you will have to check the squareness of the insert and the nock end and adjust accordingly .... or refletch to the same angle as the blades ... or think about Mechanicals

[qhergt]

would shooting 85g points hit low like that?

*edit just weighed the points on my reloading scale.... 100gs

[jmo]

That phrase is nothing more than marketing hype ..... you could use 1 pin for all distances ... just know where to hold pin ...

one pin to 40 usually means zero a pin at 30 and high for 40 and low for 20

That phrase is marketing hype? I dont think you got the point. Why not just have all of your pins and take the guess work out of it?