CCL injury to my dog.

[luckofthedraw]

Definition: Cranial Cruciate Ligament, CCL, also known as the Anterior Cruciate Ligament or ACL, is one of the most common problems of dogs. The knee joint becomes painful and can cause lameness and osteoarthritis.

Just returned home from the vet and the diagnosis is two torn ligaments in my dogs rear legs. Both are CCL ligaments. Xray of hips showed nothing abnormal thankfully.

I have surgical options that can run from $1600-3000 per leg depending on which procedure we decide on, if we go that route. It's possible the surgery does not help him back to 100% in some cases. If we just let him be and monitor how he does, their is roughly a 90% chance that he will improve to 90% health.

For now, we are doing our homework thoroughly to make sure we make an informed decision. Just looking to see if anyone has dealt with these injuries before to see if I can learn from their experiences. :confused:

Thanks.

[newhunterette]

Yes, we have had to deal with the same thing for our Blue Heeler. She was 12 I believe at the time of her blowing her CCL and we took her to our vet. He did blood work, x-rays, and confirmed it was CCL and she would require surgery. He said he himself couldnt do the surgery so we had to take her to UBC as there is a vet there who does the surgery. When quoted how much it was like $2000-$3500.00 just for surgery and another $1500 for physio in their specialized SPAW. Now remember she was 12 (that's pretty old for a dog, we had to think long and hard about the cost as to her age) of course we wanted to have our dog but who has that kind of money to cover a surgery like that. I decided to call another vet and bring her in for a second opinion, he did no x-rays, no blood work and gave same diagnosis for her. He said surgery could run $800 - $1000 and physio was $15.00 for one hour of training so we would know what we needed to d to get her back up and going. 12 years and still had lots of get up n go and after her ssurgery, she was better than she had ever been and we got another 4 years with her. We went the surgery route because of her age, we felt being an older dog, trying to let her body heal it naturally and knowing what a high performance breed she was, she would never have recovered as quickly as she did with her surgery. We lost her not because her body gave out it was because her mind gave out. I trust our new vet with any diagnosis he gives, his vet costs have risen since we became clients but he is still the best and one of the easier on the pocket book vets I know. He also does these surgeries on most part 4 in a week, to him its standard as many dogs suffer this injury and it isnt partial to small, med, or large breeds it happens to all sizes, shapes and forms. The one thing he does do is gives you options, not many vets do that.

???didn't I give you our vet's number, already??
Oh, I was informed you did go see our vet by my daughter today, so yes I did give you the number, my bad.

[newhunterette]

Here is a link to check out..............http://www.tiggerpoz.com/

[brian]

my childhood dog tore this ligament. Because of her age and poor health surgery was not an option. Over a long time the muscle around the ligament took over the ligaments job... but she was never 100% after that.

[Cdn-Redneck]

Is it because of new technology that these injuries are being diagnosed? I remember about 20+ years ago and people would say they were hunting with their dog and "he came up lame". I guess that must have been what had happened. Hope your dog gets well. I now of two friends dogs who have had ACL surgeries with great success.

[wrenchhead]

my chocolate lab had his first go when he was 4 and i got it done right away, it took about 4-5 months to heal up and is now at least back to 95%. Then last winter the other side went, total rupture. got the surgury done and this time had the get some cartiage trimed due to some tearing. second leg took about 6 months to heal and his leg has a slight bent to it.

surgerys where 1500 a pop but well worth it. the second knee was done last feb. so he had lots of good swimming rehab and now hes good to go for birds.
tough to swallow the bill but now hes back to his old self and enjoying life again.
also i got the surgerys done in vernon at vernon vet clinic by doug leminski and i would recomend him to anyone- explains and shows problem, goes over options and very fair,(no suprises.)

[Wood butcher]

I have a GSP who tore her CL, surgery quotes in some cases were through the roof. As high as 5300 down to around 2500 plus a few extras. yes I love my dog but lets get real here. A family friend is a retired vet and he used to do the surgeries for 900. I asked if the dog would recover if I did nothing and he said she would never be 100% and would likely be more prone to arthritis.

The recovery for surgery for the dog was lots of kennel time(my dog doesn't kennel well at all) no stairs (we have stairs) avoid hardwood floors(80% of our house). The other kicker was that it was common for the other knee to go within a year to year and a half. I'm not willing to spend that kind of cash on a dog (sorry but I just can't justiy it. The kids need to eat too!)

We opted to forgo the surgery. We didn't push the dog for a year. No ball, no off leash walks or runs just hanging around and walking, stretching. It's been just over a year and she pretty good now. If she out hunting for a couple hours you can see that it's the sorest part of her body at the end of the day but it does not slow her down. She will be 9 this Nov. Most of the time the dog is just a mellow house pet, how often do you work your dog might be a question you need to ask yourself too.

Just some food for thought.

[Kayte]

my dog's had 4 knee surgeries.
the cost difference in the CCL surgeries is dependent on the type of surgery you choose. "traditional" (extracapsular), tightrope, TPLO, TTA....

[luckofthedraw]

Thanks, I figured their had to be someone on here whose been through this before. I haven't read all through the posts yet....pulling out for a moose hunt in the morning. Pooch is staying home, I will read through this when I return. Thank you.

[luckofthedraw]

Thanks for all the info. Still thinking about our options. The dog is doing better....he doesn't let this slow him down at all. I love to exercise him....I am taking it easy on him for now, just to see how he does. I am keeping him to short fetch sessions, no off leash walks and restricting to a few short leashed walks a day. He appears ready to go further...but I wan't to make sure he heels as best as he can for now. If trouble arises again, then surgury may be back in the picture...for now it's wait and see.

[luckofthedraw]

Here is a link to check out..............http://www.tiggerpoz.com/


Thanks. I just spent the last 30 mins looking at this link. I already decided a slow exercise approach and this link helps support it.

[Sako 300 win mag]

Hey luckofthedraw

When did you notice your pup getting "better" ? After reading the same site as you I'm thinking of the slow exercise approach as well . She's all doped up right now but still favoring the damaged knee . It's only been 2 days so I'm sure this doesn't happen over night .

[luckofthedraw]

No, it doesn't happen over night. Every injury is case specific. Their will be pros and cons for surgery or no surgery that only you and your family can decide on.

In my case....

The injury happend on august 25th. I gave 2 days bed rest, with no improvement so we took Hudson in. We didn't have the right gut feeling from that vet, so I made a rant on here. After getting some advice from some great HBC'ers, I went for a second opinion at a vet reccomended by newhunterette (THANKS!)

The vet was very informative and cost effective, he was shocked to see how well my dog was getting around despite having a lot of "drawer" movement. (A test your vet can do before x-ray). We decided to get x-rays to rule out any hip complication in Hudson.

Basically after weighing all of our options, we decided (with the vets help), that we would monitor Hudson closely and gradually return him to activity. The vet had said that their is a 90% chance that without surgery, he could become 90% healthy.

After about a month I took him for a walk, when the limping was visibly gone. He began limping again, when we arrived home. Back to bed rest, and I realized I was pushing him too hard. Any time, I've seen a set back....it puts you basically a week in the wrong direction. This really takes A TON of patients.

In our case, Hudson has become increasingly better week by week...so I have not felt the need for the surgery as I believe he is recovering well. I can't notice an injury anymore at all...but I am still resting him, and taking for 2 short leash, short walks a day. I have played short sessions of fetch with him....a young lab needs to play. He gets a lot of cuddle time because we feel bad he is unable to play as much as he would like. I am being extra careful with him, because I think that is key to a good recovery. Even though he appears better, I think I will stick to this style of program for another 2 months. His walks are getting to be a further distance....I increase little by little, week by week.

Regardless, surgery or gradual return takes a lot of recovery time. It's been a long month and a half.

Hope this helps a little, I wish you all the best.

[Sako 300 win mag]

That's great news ! I'm also getting a 2nd opinion this week I felt the same as you with the vet we went to on saturday . Thanks again for some great info !

[luckofthedraw]

That's great news ! I'm also getting a 2nd opinion this week I felt the same as you with the vet we went to on saturday . Thanks again for some great info !

How is things going? What did you decide to do?

Yesterday our dog re-injured again. I threw the dog a stick twice for the dog and on the second one, he put the breaks on hard and tweaked the same leg. Now he is back to bed rest.

[35rem]

Dogs cannot re-injure a ruptured ACL. Once it is torn it is gone. As I already stated in another thread; a torn ACL leads to joint instability which puts an abnormal load on the meniscus. If a dog with a torn ACL initially improves and then gets worse suddenly chances are the meniscus is now damaged as well. Each knee has 2 meniscii; an outer and inner. In >95% of the cases the inner (medial) meniscus is damaged.

Good information on the disease and various treatment options can be found here: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1975

[Sako 300 win mag]

I went with the "tight rope " surgery the Dr seems to think it should do the trick she is booked this week . Sorry to hear about your pup . Might be time for surgery ?

[labguy]

Dogs cannot re-injure a ruptured ACL. Once it is torn it is gone. As I already stated in another thread; a torn ACL leads to joint instability which puts an abnormal load on the meniscus. If a dog with a torn ACL initially improves and then gets worse suddenly chances are the meniscus is now damaged as well. Each knee has 2 meniscii; an outer and inner. In >95% of the cases the inner (medial) meniscus is damaged.

Good information on the disease and various treatment options can be found here: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1975

I appreciate your thoughtful, knowlegable, factual and intelligent post based on science.....not fantasy and wishful thinking.

It's unfortunate that so much of the input in this thread and others relating to canine injury was not based on good, solid information.

Dogs (and people) suffer greatly from the poor information dispensed via the internet by people who, while well meaning, really don't have a clue.

[Sako 300 win mag]

Just picked up my pup from her TPLO surgery . I was going to go with the "Tight rope" surgery but the surgeon suggested that the TPLO would be best so thats what I went with . She is on the long road to recovery !

[Kasomor]

Good luck with your pooch. :)

Follow the recovery/ rehabilitation instructions to the letter and to the minute.

[luckofthedraw]

How is your dog doing? My slow-recovery approach is so-so. I periodicaly am taking my dog for about 2 km jogs.....he is doing well with some minor limping afterwards sometimes. Its a huge positive to have him out and playing again. If I push him too hard on a run or play session he needs a day or two of rest before going again. I still question my desicion of non-surgical but I'm still giving it time. I think with a more active summer I should have a great idea of what im dealing with in the fall.

Hope everything is working out for your pup.

[35rem]

Sorry to hear your dog is not doing well. A very important factor is the size of the dog. Under 15 lbs most dogs will do well with rest and slow recovery, but as their weight increases the chance of them healing with rest alone decreases rapidly. So Yorkies do great, Cockers are a crapshoot and Labradors rarely do well...
The longer a knee is instable the more collateral damage (torn meniscus, arthritis) will occur. If you are contemplating surgery it might be better to do it now rather then wait until the fall.

[luckofthedraw]

With all the injured dog posts on here lately I thought I'd provide an update. Hudson is doing great. I stuck with the non-surgical option the vet and i had decided on. I also ran into a friend who had his 12 year old lab on turmeric. Turmeric is an east Indian spice with a natural anti-inflammatory quality. It seems to work for my dog (knocking on wood). Hudson is hiking and hunting and enjoying dog parks like he should be. Any of you having trouble, I wouldn't hesitate to give it a try. At 1/4 teaspoon, twice a day (about 5 cents per day), I wouldn't think to remove that from his diet. I wish everyone the best of luck and judgement with making their decisions for mans best friends.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/hudsonfirstrack.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/hudsonfirstrack.jpg.html)

[steveo]

Good to know, thanks for the update and good to hear your dog is doing better.

[tinhorse]

I will be trying that turmeric thanks. My dog is doing better after the last 2 weeks of rest and little walks. I have started giving him glucosamine tablets and his walks have now increased to 20 minutes each instead of 5-10.

[luckofthedraw]

I will be trying that turmeric thanks. My dog is doing better after the last 2 weeks of rest and little walks. I have started giving him glucosamine tablets and his walks have now increased to 20 minutes each instead of 5-10.

Ya, the spice is defiantly worth it in the two dogs that I know of. Just toss in and mix around. 1/2 teaspoon a day is what I was told, because I feed twice a day, Hudson gets 1/4 tsp x 2.

Glad to hear your pup seems too be improving. I can't stress enough that you need to take it easy, only leashed for as long as you can. I let Hudson fetch a little once he started looking better, and with the second toss we were back to square one again. Best of luck.