.308 vs bears

[Enthusiast]

hello I've been talking to a friend and he said get a .300 win or a 7mm to hunt with because the province is overrun with bears. I really want this .308 i'm looking at and i've heard it can take down a moose (with the right shot placement). I was talking to my dad last night and he said someone he knows who hunts takes down blackbears with a .308 all the time. So I'm a little torn now, the gun I"m looking at is a Rem 700 VTR which is a really nice accurate gun, light, short.. basically everything i"m looking for in a rifle, but it doesn't come in .300 or 7mm. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.. thanks ;)

[island grown]

If you like the rifle and if it fits and feels good when shouldered than get it. There is nothing wrong with a 308. I have hunted with 30-30, 270, 30-06, etc.... and my 30-30 is still my go to rifle when I go hunting whether it be for deer or bear.

Don't underestimate a 30 cal bullet.

Hope you enjoy your new rifle. You will also enjoy the cost of ammo compared to larger calibers.
Cheers

[Enthusiast]

yeah I had a chance to look at the rifle at the gun shop.. it does feel really nice when shouldered. I'm not a very strong guy so the light weight of the gun would make it easy for me to carry through the bush and to keep steady while aiming..

[Ozone]

Lots of bears have fallen to a 308

[jrjonesy]

My son shot his Black bear last year with a .243 and my .308 has killed several Moose (by me and when it was my Dad's gun). No reason you should have any concern with choosing a .308.

[tomahawk]

Your friend does not have enough knowledge to help you if that is his thoughts on bears. Listen to the other posts.

[porcupine]

The .308 is plenty enough medicine for black bears. Legendary grizzly guide Clayton Mack referred to it as a big gun in one of his books, and he used a 30-30 for years as his back up gun. I've read that more elephants have been poached in Africa with .308's than any other caliber. It's all about bullet placement and bullet construction and there are some terrific bullets available today.

[elkdom]

world wide millions of bears, black ,brown and white have fallen to similarly powered cartridges to the .308Winchester and including the .308 Winchester, and the majority of those long before recent new tough projectiles/bullets,

and for "novice shooters" such as yourself, a common caliber(.308 Win) is a VERY good choice as it more than adequate for all north American Big game( maybe not best for Kodiak Bears) , CHEAP/Commonly Available Ammo and LOTS of practice and familiarity with your rifle is WAYYY more important than a BAD CASE of MAGNUM-ITIS !

[sarg]

the .308 is a great cal for b.c hunting, i started hunted with a 30-06, but now my go to gun is my .243,( except when i'm after moose,) but if one step in front of my when i'm carrying the 243 i would make the shot with it,

[elkdom]

considering still to this day!, the .308 Winchester and the 30-06 Springfield out-sell all other calibers in North America ,,,,

for the average big game hunter plenty of PUNCH !

[Enthusiast]

awesome thanks everyone :) you have put my confidence back into the gun I'm looking at :) soon I should have my pal and will have the gun in my posession. here's a review on the rifle I'm looking at: http://www.snipercentral.com/vtr.htm. I've done a fair bit of research and this gun is a really sweet weapon. It's pretty much perfect for me but was just worried about the calibre. Thanks for helping me solve this. Happy hunting!

[russm86]

.308 and .30-06 and .300 all use the same .308 calibre bullet just with different brass. Reason? Very popular and very versatile and wide range of bullet types and weights. More than capable of taking any big game found in North America I would say.

[Rodd]

Shot 3 elk with one... All one shot kills... And many many deer.... performs flawless for me... Bullet selection is awesome! can't beat .30 calibre's... IMHO And you can shoot it many times at the range without bruising your shoulder! My kids all shoot .308's

[Fixit]

I bought a remington 700 in 300win mag and then a second for my brother in 308 win....

i find the winmag a bit abusive and like the 308 more. easier handling (2"shorter barrel) lighter, shorter action, lighter recoil
308 is my go to rifle.. shot a moose through and through last weeekend, it dropped in its tracks

[todbartell]

308 is perfectly suitable, and damn near ideal for 90% of hunting situations in BC

[308Lover]

Ya See? What have I been tellin' ya for the last few years? Gotta love the .308 (of course) I use 180 grains super X. Bears WILL die from this. Don't hesitate.

[OutWest]

Your friend does not have enough knowledge to help you if that is his thoughts on bears. Listen to the other posts.

My thoughts exactly.

[303Brit]

Everybody knows you need a 300 win mag to kill Island deer and at least a 338 win mag to kill bears GAWD common knowledge people ;)

No seriously if you do you part a .308 is plenty of rifle for pretty much all game in North America. Go with the 308 you'll be plenty happy with an ammo is readily avail almost everywhere, not to mention less exspensive then a 300 mag fag

303

[todbartell]

not to mention less exspensive then a 300 mag fag

while the 308 is an effective cartridge, it's probably more 'fag' than the 300 Winchester Magnum ;) which is for burly heterosexual men

[303Brit]

while the 308 is an effective cartridge, it's probably more 'fag' than the 300 Winchester Magnum ;) which is for burly heterosexual men

Burly Hetero's with small penis syndrome ;)

303

But what do I know I shoot bears with a 1918 mk III

[todbartell]

who needs a penis when you have a huge magnum

[brian]

308 is a pretty kick-ass cartridge. Also I don't know if you have read that PDF about bear defence someone posted recently. If you haven't try digging it up. Against what most would consider common knowledge the 300 win mag was not recommended for short range bear defence. The reasoning being the velocities it was pumping out challenged the limitations of the bullets design and the result was excessive fragmentation and poor penetration compared to lower velocity rounds. So in a nutshell they say that counter intuitively the 30-06 is better suited to bear defence than the 300 win mag. I imagine this would hold true for the 308 as well. So go buy it and have fun and then only worry about the bears if you happen to have one charging you.

[Foxton Gundogs]

308, not MY first choice in a non Mag. cal. BUT a Mod. 740 in 308 was the first rifle I ever bought waaayyyy back in 1959 and I can't count the number of bears I've killed with it, the didn't seem to care it wasn't a big magnum they just died. If you like the gun and it fits BUY IT!

[srupp]

HMMM I personally do not like the .308 however that is a personal opinion..now with that out of the way..

I have seen lots of bears shot..and so far they are just as dead when shot by a .308 with premium bullets, on deer they are very effective..saw a deer go down in only 5 shots with a .308..OK the first 4 where clean misses by a buck fever lad..lol

If a sliver slinger can take down a moose..so can a .308...lots of selection of bullets..

not recomended for grizzly..

cheers
Steven

[new hunter]

I'm sure that .308 is a very effective cartridge , but why not pack an extra hundred fps with the 30-06 . I wanted a .308 as well when I bought my rifle , but one of the guys at spud valley told me he shoots a 30-06 and has no issue with the recoil or weight {similar build to myself }. In case your wandering I wegh a bout 145#.
I shoot a savage 111 in 30-06 pushing a 150grn , and like I said , its a very comfortable gun . I also worry about bears a bit , so the extra capacity in the 06 is fairly raessuring . 30-06 is not necessarilly the best for large brown bears , but it is a little more suitable than .308 , and definitely more so than a 30-30.
point is 30-06 and 308 are fairly smilar packages in bullet weight recoil , price and rifle weight [As far as I know } , so why not go with the bigger cartrige , even if the difference is marginal .

[REMINGTON JIM]

hello I've been talking to a friend and he said get a .300 win or a 7mm to hunt with because the province is overrun with bears. I really want this .308 i'm looking at and i've heard it can take down a moose (with the right shot placement). I was talking to my dad last night and he said someone he knows who hunts takes down blackbears with a .308 all the time. So I'm a little torn now, the gun I"m looking at is a Rem 700 VTR which is a really nice accurate gun, light, short.. basically everything i"m looking for in a rifle, but it doesn't come in .300 or 7mm. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.. thanks ;)

Your friend may need a 300 or 7mm mag to kill black bears - but i`have killed a few along with many others with the 308 win you need good ammo ( quality bullets ) and it kills fine ! Buy it - you will like the rifle and most 308 wins shot very accurately - Good Luck :-D

[Weatherby Fan]

My first rifle was a Parker&Hale .308, my first animal taken with that rifle was a Bull Moose and my 2nd animal was a 4 pt Mule Deer,both 1 shot kills at 200 yds
With all of the quality bullets being loaded today you will have no problem hunting anything in BC
No worries if the rifle feels good to you and you have your heart set on it go get it !
Happy Hunting
WF

[.330 Dakota]

The 308 is an excellent killer, being from Northern Ont, I have seen more moose fall to the 308 than any other cartridge. It was and still is the number 1 seller back east. One reason being the Remington 740 autoloading rifle, as this was a favourite in the deer woods.
I had a buddy with a model 100 Winchester in 308, and it was a rare non-jamming model..hmm
Anyways I was with him once and watched him drop a 50 inch bull at 200 yards with 1 shot...308..180 grain factory ammo.
Buy your gun and enjoy it

[BCBRAD]

team that 308 up with Varget powder and a 165gr TSX and no reasonably placed shot will allow an animal to walk. On the other hand I've always found the 308 Win had a nasty kick for its size, much prefer the 30-06.

[boat tail]

I currently shoot a winchester modle 88 lever action .308. I find it very unpunishing to shoot. Very accurate, and love the variety of grades and grains the bullets come in. I'd buy .308 all day long !!!

[Enthusiast]

sweet.. thanks for the info everyone :) I'm feeling much more confident with the rifle I'm looking at now. Like I said I had a chance to hold it and it felt really nice on the shoulder. I can't wait to pick it up and start putting some meat in the freezer. now if I could just get ahold of that damn PAL ..... lol

[REMINGTON JIM]

over the last 40 + years i’ve seen & heard what a 308 does too many deer, some moose & black bear. Mostly one shot & instant drop in their tracks by lover 308(lt) –hunting partner since 1967.
I’m confident that a 308 is ample for black bear using a properly constructed 200 or 220 grain bullet with sd .301 & .331 respectively. (sd-sectional density)
for grizzly i think it’s marginal at best. Facing a charge i would go big bore or a properly loaded 338 as a very minimum.

Consider the latest grizz charge scenario!
An alaskan hunter (donald "skip" sanford) walked into a grizz defending some moose remains on sept. 21. The bear charged from 70 yards & he waited until the bear was about 10 feet away before firing his 30-06.
the bullet hit the bear, but didn't stop it.
(30-06 ballistics are only slightly better than a 308.)

and then what happened ?????????? Backup killed it at 3 ft with a 338 mag !!!!???? :confused::confused::wink::wink:

[Singleshotneeded]

The .308 is a fine choice, and will take care of all game in BC, though I'd want something heavier
if I were after grizzlies or kodiaks. With good ammo and marksmanship you'll do great!

[BCBRAD]

The .308 is a fine choice, and will take care of all game in BC, though I'd want something heavier
if I were after grizzlies or kodiaks. With good ammo and marksmanship you'll do great!

Should say if Griz was after you!

[REMINGTON JIM]

Skip received a severe mauling after being grabbed by the bear
- scalp and face had multiple lacerations, a torn ear , hands were mangled, and the grizzly's claws dug deep into his back near his kidneys

But Skip had a sense of humour!:)
Asked how big was the bear, he said “I don’t know my head was in his mouth I couldn’t see how big it was”.

Skip was listed in fair condition late Tuesday, a hospital spokeswoman said.
SORRY -he was mauled - hope all turns out well for skip - guess he should have shot sooner and tried to get 2 or 3 shots into that bad boy- easy to say after the fact- Regards

[Foxton Gundogs]

I'm sure that .308 is a very effective cartridge , but why not pack an extra hundred fps with the 30-06 . I wanted a .308 as well when I bought my rifle , but one of the guys at spud valley told me he shoots a 30-06 and has no issue with the recoil or weight {similar build to myself }. In case your wandering I wegh a bout 145#.
I shoot a savage 111 in 30-06 pushing a 150grn , and like I said , its a very comfortable gun . I also worry about bears a bit , so the extra capacity in the 06 is fairly raessuring . 30-06 is not necessarilly the best for large brown bears , but it is a little more suitable than .308 , and definitely more so than a 30-30.
point is 30-06 and 308 are fairly smilar packages in bullet weight recoil , price and rifle weight [As far as I know } , so why not go with the bigger cartrige , even if the difference is marginal .

I was the oppeset I wanted an '06 all my family had '06s but the only hardware store in town only had 1 740 and it was a 308. There was a HUGE wait(huge for a kid) of 2 weeks if I ordered an'06 so I gave in to impatience and bought the 308. It has killed lots of deer, moose, black bear, a few elk a couple of caribou and even a Fannin ram and a G bear. not to mention lots of coyotes and a few wolves. They all died and I doubt very much if they cared what had killed them. As I said earlier even after 50+ years of faithfull service it is not my choice of calibres but I still take it out as my truck gun and it still shoots straight with the original K4 scope on it and I guess you really cant ask anything more from a rifle/calibre.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Over the last 40 + years I’ve seen & heard what a 308 does too many deer, some moose & black bear. Mostly one shot & instant drop in their tracks by LOVER 308(LT) –hunting partner since 1967.
I’m confident that a 308 is ample for black bear using a properly constructed 200 or 220 grain bullet with SD .301 & .331 respectively. (SD-sectional density)
For grizzly I think it’s marginal at best. Facing a charge I would go big bore or a properly loaded 338 as a very minimum.

Consider the latest grizz charge scenario!
An Alaskan hunter (Donald "Skip" Sanford) walked into a grizz defending some moose remains on Sept. 21. The bear charged from 70 yards & he waited until the bear was about 10 feet away before firing his 30-06.
The bullet hit the bear, but didn't stop it.
(30-06 ballistics are only slightly better than a 308.)

Sure like to know where you can get 308s in 220 gr. I've tried and I mean it so if you have a sorce please share.

[todbartell]

Sure like to know where you can get 308s in 220 gr. I've tried and I mean it so if you have a sorce please share.

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-Cal-.308-220-gr-RN/

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=bc&stock_num=2180&bullettype=0

http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/Partition.aspx

[NorthShoreX]

awesome thanks everyone :) you have put my confidence back into the gun I'm looking at :) soon I should have my pal and will have the gun in my posession. here's a review on the rifle I'm looking at: http://www.snipercentral.com/vtr.htm. I've done a fair bit of research and this gun is a really sweet weapon. It's pretty much perfect for me but was just worried about the calibre. Thanks for helping me solve this. Happy hunting!

Take a look at the Browning X-Bolt Composite Stalker, it has a true 22" barrel (the VTR is actually 20") and is a full pound lighter than the VTR all for the same price, $759.95 at Whole Sale Sports.

[.330 Dakota]

Over the last 40 + years I’ve seen & heard what a 308 does too many deer, some moose & black bear. Mostly one shot & instant drop in their tracks by LOVER 308(LT) –hunting partner since 1967.
I’m confident that a 308 is ample for black bear using a properly constructed 200 or 220 grain bullet with SD .301 & .331 respectively. (SD-sectional density)
For grizzly I think it’s marginal at best. Facing a charge I would go big bore or a properly loaded 338 as a very minimum.

Consider the latest grizz charge scenario!
An Alaskan hunter (Donald "Skip" Sanford) walked into a grizz defending some moose remains on Sept. 21. The bear charged from 70 yards & he waited until the bear was about 10 feet away before firing his 30-06.
The bullet hit the bear, but didn't stop it.
(30-06 ballistics are only slightly better than a 308.)

When facing a charge you will shoot whatever your holding lol

[eaglesnester]

You will do fine with a 308. Learn the rifles kill envelope and the operating envelope of various bullets and you will do well. A 308 will take down anything in B.C. except for the great bears and with proper shot placement (which is the key, it will take them in a pinch, although I would not recommend it unless you had to)
Now lets get down to the two choices for 308. There is the 7.62 (not the military version but close, military version has a thicker sidewall case) This round does not handle 200 gr bullets very well although it will shoot them. You have to seat the bullet deep in the case and the powder may be compressed.. The 7.62 action is shorter and the rifles tend to be a bit lighter, this solved logistics problems for the military in combat. More bullets could be shipped in small spaces and the combat solder could carry more rounds than the old 30/06 which is also 308 caliber. Both the 7.62 and the 30/06 have ballistics that are so close that it is not worth debate. Both are equaly accurate, the 7.62 only very slightly takes the edge and this would only be seen at the highest level of competition by pro shooters where fractions of an inch count on paper. The 30/06 has more loads available and to me is a more versital round than the 7.62 although the action is longer and tends to be slightly heaver. thats my story and i am sticken to it. hope this helps in you choice of your first rifle

[250 sav]

308 = dead black bear

[Enthusiast]

cool that's a long distance for a bullet with hardly any powder behind it!!! I do plan on getting into shooting competitions though :) That was a very interesting link..

[SimilkameenSlayer]

while the 308 is an effective cartridge, it's probably more 'fag' than the 300 Winchester Magnum ;) which is for burly heterosexual men

lol! :)


308 win and the 300 win mag are both excellent calibers. but i prefer the 30-06 it is my go to caliber, kills stuff dead just the same.

[pappy]

308 would be able to kill a bear if it were a 309, but its just a little to small:) Once you get a 308 you'll get little man syndrome, next you'll be saying " o-yah my 308 can do that too" All kidding aside all the above posts are proof that its a good cal, you should have no trouble dropping a bear with a 150 grainer out of it.

[RBH]

Enthusiast, the gun you are looking at has a muzzle brake on it. think twice about that. the 308 doesn't kick very hard, esp with 150 grain bullets, and teh muzzle brake will cause noise issues for you and those around you.

[325]

I have two 308's and love them. Light recoil, accurate, and deadly. I've taken moose, elk, black bear, whitetails, muleys, and sheep with mine without a problem.

[eaglesnester]

The 308 is a fine caliber. It will take all game in north America save the great bears. By great bears I mean the 1000lb plus Alaskan Brown, you can't have too much gun when going up against one of those big boys. Ammo is available everywhere, so you can always get more if you forget to bring yours on that hunting trip.