question about pack weight

[bosca]

Guys I am a few days away from my first alpine pack hunt. I have got what I think is everything I need. I keep going through the gear to try to bring the weight down but can't seem to weed anything else out. I'm going on a relatively easy hike compared to to some of the stories I here (6 Km) but it is up fairly steep terrain. Part of my problem is that I will have to carry all the water I need as there is none on top. Its a 4 day hunt....

From your experiences how much weight should I practically be carrying keeping in mind I not triathlete but in average condition 47 year old?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Solo?

SSS

[swampthing]

Thats a tough call. How much can you carry is what you need to ask yourself? I am your age and have a hard time with the weight these days. I did a one night trip 2 weeks ago to a spot where there was no water. I took 4l and it wasnt enough. I was lucky to find snow from a recent snowfall to melt and get me through. My pack was still about 55lb for a one nighter. I know loaded with a boned out deer or goat your pack is well over 100lb. I really struggle with that much weight these days but its usually mainly downhill and you end up running on "pure heart". The cooler weather now will help with reducing the water intake but you will probably still need a gallon a day. Have fun.

[bosca]

Me and one other guy...

[Big Lew]

Several variables to address....what type of pack, your experience packing, the physical condition and strength of your legs, footwear, if you're following a trail or bushwhacking it over rough terrain such as boulders or loose shale. From your comments, 35-40 lbs. at most. Remember, what you pack up, you also have to pack down plus whatever you shoot. It's sometimes just as hard on your body to come back down, especially if you get something, so don't try to carry too much weight coming out. Leap frog your load, or make extra trips to reduce the chance of twisting an ankle or knee, and use a staff to help with balance and cushioning the impact to your joints. A good pack with padded straps and belly strap that's adjusted to fit your frame is a must. (I've used the old trapper nelsons without padding or belly straps and it was always a painful experience) Using footwear with good ankle support is also a must. (edited to read 35-40 lbs. because of your water issue)

[bigwhiteys]

Part of my problem is that I will have to carry all the water I need as there is none on top. Its a 4 day hunt....

No snow...? 110% positive there is no water...? I usually go through about 3 liters a day with meals and drinking water. Pack weight around 40-50lbs would probably be good. If you have to carry 4 days worth of water, that sucks.

Carl

[tuchodi]

With 2 guy's each pack should be around 45-50 lbs. Are you sure there is no water as I have been up many mountains that looked dry and have most of the time found some water, even under some moss dig a hole and you may be surprised. Good luck.

[J_T]

Yup. Tough decisions have to be made to keep the weight down. Its all about the weather. If you think the weather is going to be favourable, you can manage the risk, taking less gear and go lighter. But your probably 45 pounds before you add any water. Throw out the SPOT, GPS, First Aid, extra ammo, knee braces, spotting scope, T-bone steaks, bbq, if you can go without a tent and just use a light tarp (fair risk here) you'll drop another 5 pounds. But, you also have to be safe, so the SPOT and GPS go back in......

[bosca]

Big Lew...
If I take it down to 30 lbs I,ll be down to my rifle and water...

There is not any loose shale or bush wacking to speak of. I,m using an Eberlestock pack (j34..very comfy) and I have some tried and true Scarpas on my feat. I am counting on doing a second trip for meat if things work out. My strength is definitely in my legs but the cardio might not be where I want it.

I am looking at about 75 lb right now...

Biggest problem is it seems I have to be prepared all weather conditions...From sleeping bag to rain gear to tarp...From what I have been told I could easily get a good snow fall at this time of year.

Thanks for the 'leap frog' suggestion. I may use that on the trip in if the weight gets too much.

[bosca]

Tuchodi

There is a creek about 2 K away from the camp area. I am thinking about going in with minimal water and filtering water at the last minute. Crappy thing is the steepest part of the hike is the last 2K. Hopefully the creek is still there when we go up.

[bigwhiteys]

I am looking at about 75 lb right now...

Whatever you plan to hunt drinks somewhere up there don't they? Or are you packing their water too :) 75lbs is a really heavy pack to go in for a 4 day hunt.

[Big Lew]

I've backpacked quite a bit in the mountains, and have quite strong legs, so am fairly comfortable carrying 50 lbs. even at my age, but if I had never packed, and especially into mountains before, as I assumed from your inquiry, I would try to trim the weight down as best as I could by my selection of light necessary essentials, and type of high energy foods. I agree that you might not be able to trim down to 35-40 lbs. if you're completely without a water source and camping above timberline, but for the inexperienced, 50 lbs. is a lot of weight when climbing up a steep mountain. Don't forget, you'll also be carrying a heavy rifle and bino's.

[guest]

I know you can't depend on it but here is something to consider.

We Hunt Bucks and goats in a Dry area, very steep, we look for willow growth on the side hills. Find the biggest patch of it, listen hard and dig into the root system, often we find a feed coming out of the hill running steady, let er run for a few minutes over a clean area, set your container or cup under it and VAVOOM. Water where non was visible !

CT

[Rubicon500]

What are you taking for food/ clothing ? Seems most people pack way to much for Back packing trips , i know my first hunts I did. Im a lean 215 lbs and can get away with eating just over a pound of food a day and not be the least bit hungry or loose much in the energy department. If your 75 lbs for 4 days you are packing way to much of everything or using heavy non backpack related gear. For a 14 day stone hunt , for August - October I pack 1 pair of Mammutt Champ pants , 1 -150 ice breaker , 2 - 260 ice breaker , Down jacket and a Rain jacket( some years rain pants come along). Couple pairs of socks and your good to go for clothes IMO. Thats worked well for me down to -23 up north , for October hunts I throw in 200 weight Ice breaker long underwares. Just a little food for thought , each to there own also maybe post your gear list ?

[nature girl]

If you and a buddy are going together you both can maybe sleep in the same tent. That will save weight. Are you both bringing a spotting scope just bring one if you both plan to hunt together. Just find out what you both have in your backpack take out things that you have double off. Oviously youll need your own binocolours etc. But I am sure you can save weight somewhere.

[Big Lew]

What are you taking for food/ clothing ? Seems most people pack way to much for Back packing trips , i know my first hunts I did. Im a lean 215 lbs and can get away with eating just over a pound of food a day and not be the least bit hungry or loose much in the energy department. If your 75 lbs for 4 days you are packing way to much of everything or using heavy non backpack related gear. (Quoted from "Rubicon 500) The average hiker can get away with 1 1/2 to 2 lbs. of foods a day. There are many sites that will offer examples of lightweight high energy foods. Quality light weight clothing and sleeping bags designed for high country climates are expensive, but well worth it for reducing packing weight. I use a 2-man small cycling tent with fly which weighs very little, or use just a plastic sheet lean-to. Your water will be your heaviest item.

[snareman1234]

Yeap post up your gear list buddy, ex, Stove-Jetboil, Dinner-Mtn house.....then we can see where all this weight is coming from

I just got back from a 2-nighter in the monashees solo, so all the gear was on my back, and with gun my pack was probably around 45-55.

[GOLDEN TOP SNIPER]

I love it when people posts there list .. get some great ideas from them . Be sure to include all brands and sizes of gear . i have a bad habit of overpacking . I guess i will learn the hard way someday .

[RustyRipper]

Water can definitely be a problem when trying to pack light. Considering the average person loses about 3 liters a day just from normal things like perspiration and digestion etc. you would need to pack or be able to produce at least that maybe more. I usually bring my MSR water filtration system that weighs less than a pound and is able to produce infite amounts of clean water as long as you have a source. there always is water wherever you are (I'm assuming you're not going to the desert, although there is water there too if you know where to look). Have you thought about bringing an extra little tarp and making a solar still or rain catch?

[brian]

I just did an over nighter with a 50-55 pound pack. I am in decent shape but my main problem is because of my very young family, none of my off season conditioning involved hiking at elevation with weight in a pack. It was all jogging and cardio work. So the elevation and pack weight were more gruelling on the up hills. By the time I got home a myriad of muscles in my hips were completely spent. I used up four litres of water in the two days and only brought in dried fruit, nuts, and dried meat (no stove). So the only thing I can say is take another look at your pack and see what you can loose and then when you go up, take your time and pace yourself. If you have good partners they will slow down for you if they need to. But don't try to man it out if your partners are burning up the mountain faster than you are able to, that usually ends badly.

[Gunner Staal]

The unfortunate part about weight is that it generally costs cash to reduce it. No matter what way you spin it the essentials are just that....essential. The extra money you pay for high quality, light weight gear is more than worth it on the trip. I use the following set up which has cut my weight in half.

Rab -6 goose down sleeping bag - 2 pounds packs to nothing
Integral designs Sil Dome shelter - 14 oz packs to nothing
Outdoor Research Gore Tex Bivy - 1 pound 12 oz
Backpackers Pantry Meals - Very light weight easy to prepare
Multi purpose utensils - Spork, Coffee cup is my bowl ect
Jet Boil stove with one fuel cannister (Fantastic Item) Can also double as your bowl
Exped Synmat sleeping pad - 10 oz (worth every penny) packs to nothing

If im over 40 pounds its too much. Thats just how it is. Everyone always brings more clothing than they require. Avoid cotton clothing and most of the regular "hunting" style garments. Go for the light weight mountaineering clothing. Down is fantastic...just not in wet weather. The use of trekking poles is also a must. They take 30 percent or more of the load off your knees and ankles and make coming down loaded less of a battle. I do NOT leave home without trekking poles. I agree with most of the guys that you can generally find some source of water. If not, a pre trip in before your hunt to cache water is your best bet. No one said mountain hunts were cheap or easy, thats why they are hands down the best! Good luck!

[bosca]

Gunner...Definitely sound like you have refined your gear choices down to some very practical yet light weight items. I have low end air mattress which I plan to upgrade ($150!!), my stove is Coleman feather lite that I have from my back packing days many years ago, tent is mountain hardware Hammer head 1 1/2 man, ....all in all probably accounts for approx 15 Lb diff between gear. Problem is that even with the few new quality items I did buy for this hunt I was already pushing the $1500 mark (ie., new pack, new scope, new sleeping bag...bam!!!).

Hopefully I will have prepared well enough that the positive experience will convince me to invest a little more next year.

What do you think of my odds high up at this time of year...Not to dry and depleted up there?

[bosca]

Hello all...My gear list is basically the following:
Eberlestock J34 pack
Mountain Hardware hammer Head 2 tent
Mountain Hardware pinhole -7 synthetic bag...and fleece liner.
Coleman Feather Light stove with a full tank and 250ml of extra fuel ???
Small breakdown combination wood/meat saw.
Lower end self inflating 3in mattress
8 X 12 tarp for camp or butchering game
6 litres of water
1 mickey CR
Garmin etrex gps, compact Nikon binocular, small Point and shoot digital camera,knife,sharpener,compass,Ipod,head lamp,water filter,...
3 x mountain house meals, 6 X oatmeal packs, 4 cups trail mix, 6 pepperoni, jerky, 4x cliff bars, cough candy, 2xsoup mix
1 med pant, 1 x paradox long johns, Marino wool base layer, wool/poly blend shirt, heavy fleece, compact rain poncho and pant, wool/poly socks, touk, light gloves, ....
Parker and Hale 30-06o
12 rounds ammo
You get the idea...

[Sixer]

Yup. Tough decisions have to be made Throw out the SPOT, First Aid, extra ammo, But, you also have to be safe, so the SPOT and "first aid" go back in...... thank you for correcting
your statement, Do Not Leave Without Your SPOT.A good rifle ,good knife and good knowledge of what you are getting in to is all you need. If you can make a fire in a rain storm you are good to go, nature will provide the rest....
sixer

[bosca]

Hello all...I guess I should have offered a few more specifics regarding my pack and trying reduce weight.

With regard to the water question...I am in the marble range and there is one small creek about 4 K up a 6 K trail. Unfortunately the steepest part of the trail is the last 2K. I may consider doing the entire hike with minimum water and coming back to filter water and carry it up seperately.

With regard to the 75Lb weight...keep in mind this is total weight gun and all...including 6 L of water.

Trip...3 nights 4 days...possibly 4 nights.

Here is rough copy of my gear list:
Eberlestock J34 pack
Mountain Hardware hammer Head 2 tent
Mountain Hardware pinhole -7 synthetic bag...and fleece liner.
Coleman Feather Light stove with a full tank and 250ml of extra fuel ???
Small breakdown combination wood/meat saw.
Lower end self inflating 3in mattress
8 X 12 tarp for camp or butchering game
6 litres of water
1 mickey CR
Garmin etrex gps, compact Nikon binocular, small Point and shoot digital camera,knife,sharpener,compass,Ipod,head lamp,water filter,maps...
3 x mountain house meals, 6 X oatmeal packs, 4 cups trail mix, 6 pepperoni, jerky, 4x cliff bars, cough candy, 2xsoup mix
1 med pant, 1 x paradox long johns, Marino wool base layer, wool/poly blend shirt, heavy fleece, compact rain poncho and pant, wool/poly socks, touk, light gloves, ....
Parker and Hale 30-06o
12 rounds ammo
You get the idea...

[Steeleco]

Add too or edit your original post, we don't 2 identical posts 24hrs apart.

[ElectricDyck]

Personally I would leave the wood/bone saw, the tarp and the ipod. You can man handle firewood, split joints with a knife, use a garbage bag for butchering, your tent for rain and listen to the sounds of nature. When you are loaded with meat you'll appreciate less gear.

Edit: I'd probably take a few rounds less ammo too.

[Gunner Staal]

List looks good. You dont have a bunch of unecessary shit thats for sure. I think you have a bit to much food. I would ditch the trail mix. I find I always eat much less than I think im going too. Trail mix is heavy and low in protein and salt which is what I try to load up on. I think you have plenty of mid day snacks between the soup, jerkey and bars. I would also consider ditching the tarp. You have a smokin good tent there (I own the same one) and it should fit you and your gear so the tarp I would look at as a luxury item to butcher game on. When you skin you catch, use the hide upside down to debone the meat. Tarps are big, bulky and an overall pain in the ass IMO. Great for long term camps though.

When you do get the chance to upgrade your airmattress I highly recommend "Exped Synamat or Downmat" they are unbelievable. 3 inch loft and they are lighter and smaller than you can imagine. They are going to put Thermarest out of business. Also have a look at the Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight 2 tent or the MSR Hubba. Both a bit smaller and lighter than the ones you have. Have a peek at the Mountain Equipment Coop used gear site. Just go to the regular site www.mec.ca (http://www.mec.ca) and click under "Community" Then you will see the online gear swap. Its where I get everything. You will never buy new again.

[bigwhiteys]

Gunner has given you some detailed advice from the voice of experience. I would echo what he said.

- no saw
- no ipod
- no tarp

Just like Electric stated...

- I'd take 9 rounds instead of 12.
- I would leave the CR behind... sadly but yes.
- ditch the sharpener, sharpen your blade once, well before you go. My hand made knife will skin out several animals between sharpenings, and my havalons don't need to be sharpened. (the havalon are sketchy breaking down joints)
- compass would be gone... Use your GPS. If this drainage is one way in, one way out and you're above timberline?

Carl

[Big Lew]

The unfortunate part about weight is that it generally costs cash to reduce it. No matter what way you spin it the essentials are just that....essential. The extra money you pay for high quality, light weight gear is more than worth it on the trip. I use the following set up which has cut my weight in half.

Rab -6 goose down sleeping bag - 2 pounds packs to nothing
Integral designs Sil Dome shelter - 14 oz packs to nothing
Outdoor Research Gore Tex Bivy - 1 pound 12 oz
Backpackers Pantry Meals - Very light weight easy to prepare
Multi purpose utensils - Spork, Coffee cup is my bowl ect
Jet Boil stove with one fuel cannister (Fantastic Item) Can also double as your bowl
Exped Synmat sleeping pad - 10 oz (worth every penny) packs to nothing

If im over 40 pounds its too much. Thats just how it is. Everyone always brings more clothing than they require. Avoid cotton clothing and most of the regular "hunting" style garments. Go for the light weight mountaineering clothing. Down is fantastic...just not in wet weather. The use of trekking poles is also a must. They take 30 percent or more of the load off your knees and ankles and make coming down loaded less of a battle. I do NOT leave home without trekking poles. I agree with most of the guys that you can generally find some source of water. If not, a pre trip in before your hunt to cache water is your best bet. No one said mountain hunts were cheap or easy, thats why they are hands down the best! Good luck!
Great post "Gunner Staal", about what I was suggesting, but with far more excellent detail, especially naming your specific equipment. Also a good suggestion regarding making a pre-trip to carry in a water cash, (better to have excess rather than scrimp if it's possible)

[Rodd]

"With regard to the water question...I am in the marble range and there is one small creek about 4 K up a 6 K trail. Unfortunately the steepest part of the trail is the last 2K. I may consider doing the entire hike with minimum water and coming back to filter water and carry it up seperately."

Thats how I've managed for years... Get up there minimal water, setup, and search for closest available water.. And load up, and pack it to your camp... In our country, their has already been enough fresh snows, that all N facing slopes up high still have some snow on them... Good Luck and have fun....

[bosca]

Good advice...I will re evalute the food. The tarp was kind of dual purpose item in case the weather got out of hand. I may go to the Valhalla Pure store and buy one of the expend mats right after work...Kind of pricey though!

Thanks for the advice.

[bigwhiteys]

I may go to the Valhalla Pure store and buy one of the expend mats right after work...Kind of pricey though!

The Exped is an excellent sleeping mat.. I have the downmat 7. I bought it @ wholesale sports when they had a sale for $129 or $139 can't remember now. Regular $199. Check there too.

Carl

[bcmulie]

75 lbs is way too much, IMO. For my last sheep hunting trip (8 days), my pack (including food and 2L water, but not including my rifle) weighed 50 lbs. Here are the changes I would make to the gear you've listed:

-Ditch the fleece liner (just wear your long johns, etc to bed)
-Swap the Coleman stove for a Sno Peak stove
-Swap the breakdown combo saw for an ultralight folding saw
-Your lower end 3in mattress sounds pretty heavy. I haven't heard of the Exped Synmat sleeping pad, but it sounds good. I use the thermarest neoair - full length, super comfy, and only weighs around 10-14 ounces
-ditch the tarp, the mickey of CR and the ipod
-Your food list is a little more than I would pack (especially the 4 cups trail mix), but of course I almost starved to death on my last trip...

The rest of your list looks pretty reasonable.

bcmulie

[Buck]

Not sure i would ditch the ipod mine works my spot connect.I also have several audio books ,movies downloaded into it for those long nights or if socked in by bad weather.Prefer audio books as the eyes are to tired after glassing all day.

[nature girl]

If its pissing rain and your stuck in your tent are you going to wish you brought your tarp or do you think the tent can handle a downpour. I think between you and your buddy you should have one small tarp. But hey thats just me.

[stoneguide]

I took a 9x12 Sil tarp this year and was glad I did. We(three of us) had a quite a bit of rain and instead of being stuck in cramped tents we were able to hang out under the tarp and do our cooking and such out there. Will never do another trip with out it!
SG