Vancouver hunters shoot farmers pigs?

[olharley guy]

Howdy, just read a funny article about a farmers pigs getting loose around 87 Mile and some guys shot 3 of them.

The farmer caught them and he was told it was wild boar season and his pigs had no identification tags.

CO and RCMP now inbvolved.

Shouild be some charges over this hopefully.

Not sure how to scan the story and put it on here. Later

[juiceterboost]

haha that is good maybe try posting the link to the story I would definitely like to peruse it.

[levind]

did it say anything else. just wondering how far from the farm the pigs where. where did you read the story?

[levind]

A resident of Kelsey Lake, west of 87 Mile, was stunned to discover some Vancouver-based hunters had shot his pigs recently.
Rolf Friedrich says he heard the shots very close to his remotely-located house and fence line, so he went out to investigate..


went to the link of the full story but it was broken might have been taken down as it was 3 days ago.

[Singleshotneeded]

Ummm, I could wrap my head around what they did if the pigs had made it to the woods...or were they just on
the side of a country road?

[olharley guy]

Howdy, it is on the front page of the 100 Mile Free Press that was delivered this morning to the office. I could try and scan it and email it to someone to post. Later

[RJ]

If they were in the bush wouldn't they be considered feral?

[BernDawg]

I don't know about BC but when I lived in MB feral pigs were fair game any time.

[LYKTOHUNT]

If they were in the bush wouldn't they be considered feral?
Well maybe but it would be interesting to have a poll on how many on this site would shoot them, I know I would not

[levind]

looks like christina lake is having a problem with them because they got out of a farmers field and causing all types of problems. We dont need them in our woods. i dont feel bad for the farmer. If pigs get out they should be fair game because of the problems they could cause if not taken care of.

[levind]

if i saw pigs i the bush not near a farm i'd probably shoot one. would i shoot a pig on a fence line or near a farm no.

[coach]

Howdy, just read a funny article about a farmers pigs getting loose around 87 Mile and some guys shot 3 of them.

The farmer caught them and he was told it was wild boar season and his pigs had no identification tags.

CO and RCMP now inbvolved.

Shouild be some charges over this hopefully.

Not sure how to scan the story and put it on here. Later


Who should be charged? The "hunters" or the farmer?

[LYKTOHUNT]

looks like christina lake is having a problem with them because they got out of a farmers field and causing all types of problems. We dont need them in our woods. i dont feel bad for the farmer. If pigs get out they should be fair game because of the problems they could cause if not taken care of.
I agree that they can and will be a real big problem when they go feral, just look at all the problems they are having in the states but I would not shoot them until it was officially Ok to, then once it is legal you betcha bring on the bacon

[palmer]

We used to have escaped hogs here, but they are all gone now. And is was unlawful to shoot them. They are considered escaped farm animals, so it would be like shooting a cow that gets out of the field.

[bcfarmer]

Having not read the story, I am not sure if the pigs were shot on crown land or private property. If the pigs just got out of their pens but were still on the farmers property, then I would not consider them to be in OUR woods.

If on crown land...that is a different story.

bcf



looks like christina lake is having a problem with them because they got out of a farmers field and causing all types of problems. We dont need them in our woods. i dont feel bad for the farmer. If pigs get out they should be fair game because of the problems they could cause if not taken care of.

[frenchbar]

im i missing something ..or is there a pig season in reg 5 lol

[NitwiT]

http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_cariboo/100milefreepress/news/130232283.html

[Sasquatch]

Sounds like enough blame to go around. Hunters who make up regs as they go and a farmer with loose pigs.

[olharley guy]

Howdy, I would say the hunters should have to reimburse the farmer - I know there are thousands of these wild pigs in the Caribou running wild so they certainly have to be thinned out. LOL

If the farmer heard the shot and walked over to the guys they couldn't have been too far from his house.

Does CORE teach the difference between a 4 point and a pig-Just my thoughts.

If the wife and I saw some pigs out there we would laugh and maybe try to find the owner - not kill them. Later

[frenchbar]

The clowns should be banned from hunting all together ..they didnt even know what reg they were in for christ sakes ...let alone shoot some farmers livestock ...

[levind]

defiantly not a good think to do but come on...

"The direction they were shooting was directly at my house.
"It's kind of scary with all those hunters out there. I'm almost afraid to go out and get firewood in the bush."


How did he know which direction they were shooting when he said he hear the shots not that he saw the hunters shoot and yes i have heard of all those farmers shot by hunters while collecting firewood.


Does anyone know about feral game hunting. I thought you could hunt feral game in bc. I heard people were hunting feral goats and sheep on a couple of the islands?

[urbanhermit]

firewood collecting is dangerous business if you are a farmer i guess.

[One Shot]

Does anyone know about feral game hunting. I thought you could hunt feral game in bc. I heard people were hunting feral goats and sheep on a couple of the islands?

Is game not all feral except the ones you feed out the kitchen door? You can they have have all the information in the annual Hunting & Trapping Regulations Synopsis. You just cannot go out and hunt feral livestock.

[levind]

one shot then the goats and sheep people are or were shooting on the islands was illegal then? as they were livestock at one point. This is in no way condoning what was done just asking because in the paper the co was saying there is no feral hunting allowed in b.c.

wasn't there some feral pigs back in the day near harrison you could hunt? before my time so just going by what i have found on the internet.

[Gateholio]

A resident of Kelsey Lake, west of 87 Mile, was stunned to discover some Vancouver-based hunters had shot his pigs recently.
Rolf Friedrich (http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_cariboo/100milefreepress/news/130232283.html#)​ says he heard the shots very close to his remotely-located house and fence line, so he went out to investigate.
"I came across them, and they were gutting my pigs. They had shot three of them."
The pigs had broken out of his fenced area and were roaming in the forest, Friedrich explains.
The hunters claimed it was wild boar hunting season, he says, and since his pigs were not identification tagged, they told Friedrich it was an "innocent mistake."
At first the farmer believed what the hunters told him about the regulations, and agreed to let them take the older sow, while he kept the two younger pigs and took them to a butcher.
It wasn't until Friedrich consulted a conservation officer (CO) that he learned there is no such thing as a boar season in British Columbia, he explains.
Friedrich says he was told boar hunting, feral or otherwise, is not open anywhere in the province.
"Hunters should be aware of the regulations, what they are allowed to shoot, and understand there is livestock out there."
The hunters also told him they thought they were in Region 3-31 when they were actually in Region 5-2, Friedrich says, adding people also need to know where they are hunting.
"The direction they were shooting was directly at my house.
"It's kind of scary with all those hunters out there. I'm almost afraid to go out and get firewood in the bush."
CO James Zuccheli says it is an RCMP issue because it's not related to wildlife.
"We would be assisting [police] if there are Wildlife Act matters that would arise out of their investigation."
Friedrich says he later reported the incident to 100 Mile House RCMP, along with the licence plate number of the hunters' vehicle, which he had recorded at the time.
In the meantime he has rounded up his wayward pigs, which now sport fluorescent survey tape to flag them as domestic animals.

[Gateholio]

Be interesting to see if there are any actual criminal charges. My guess is no. I suppose "destruction of property" or something like that. Unless there is criminal charges, it migth be hard to get restitution unless the farmer wants to pursue a lawsuit.

[rollingrock]

So the pigs were in the forest. But were they shooting at his house or not?

Since the pigs aren't wildlife, so there won't be any charge under Wildlife Act. Since the pigs were running loose on crown land, it is hard for police to prove that the pigs actually belong to this farmer. If the firearms weren't discharged in a dangerous manner, there won't be any charge under the criminal code or Firearms Act. If the farmer tried to sue in the civil court, he would have to prove these pigs belonged to him. I don't think this thing goes anywhere. The farmer should keep his pigs rounded in the pen all the time.

It reminds me of some 'wild' horses on the pavement in Pemberton running loose at night. I'm surprised that no one has been hurt because of these 'wild' horses. The farmers own the farms, not the city roads.

[urbanhermit]

self defence may have played a part too.

[Big Lew]

Am I missing something here? It's been my understanding, that unless a specific game animal is listed, with a time table and legal area, including any other pertinent information, it is not legal to hunt them. I'm quite concerned with the number of persons implying they would shoot them before doing their "due diligence" and checking to see if it were legal.

[rcar]

I follow one simple rule....if it's not in the regs, I don't shoot it.....although I do have to admit I did look hard to see if there were any opportunities to shoot wild pigs in BC when I started hunting again. A good friend is constantly telling me how much fun it is. (he lives in Florida).

[pappy]

I think the farmer is willing to play up the "shooting at my house" and anything else he can whine about. I think these "hunters" should have thought twice at least knowning that they had to pass farms on the way to where they ended up. I know of one person in the peace that had shot bison that have gotten out of one of the farms, I haven't talked to a gamewarden about this but from what I have heard you are allowed to shoot bison that have escaped. Apperantly its pretty dangerous to try and capture them and bring them back to the farm. Thats only what I have heard, I would shoot a pig if I ran into one in the bush. Not near a farm thou. I know of another guy who shot a wild bore half way to fort nelson quite a few years ago and got it butchered up. So far to me its all hear/say.

[levind]

if it was against the wildlife act i would have thought that it would be a co issue but the co's said it wasnt something they could pursue.

[Phreddy]

The clowns should be banned from hunting all together ..they didnt even know what reg they were in for christ sakes ...let alone shoot some farmers livestock ...
Amen to that fb. I resent them being called "hunters".

[mrak]

I think the farmer is willing to play up the "shooting at my house" and anything else he can whine about. I think these "hunters" should have thought twice at least knowning that they had to pass farms on the way to where they ended up. I know of one person in the peace that had shot bison that have gotten out of one of the farms, I haven't talked to a gamewarden about this but from what I have heard you are allowed to shoot bison that have escaped. Apperantly its pretty dangerous to try and capture them and bring them back to the farm. Thats only what I have heard, I would shoot a pig if I ran into one in the bush. Not near a farm thou. I know of another guy who shot a wild bore half way to fort nelson quite a few years ago and got it butchered up. So far to me its all hear/say.
I was huntting in 7-45 beatt0n river years ago 1976-77 as there were pigs running around as left by a pig rancher the CO just said fill your boots boys its lean pork worked good mixed with the moose

[urbanhermit]

going by what the co said it is obviously a no no in a pen or in an unsafe location. as they cross the road and get farther from the ranch it seems it gets pretty grey. if it is a mile from anything and no collar it seems as if the farmer is in the wrong just as much as you are for shooting it. hhhmmmm

[The Dude]

"Hunters"????????

They're obviously not hunters, so let's stop buying into this BS story. there's more to it than was printed, obviously.

[scoutlt1]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by frenchbar http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=982237#post982237)
The clowns should be banned from hunting all together ..they didnt even know what reg they were in for christ sakes ...let alone shoot some farmers livestock ...




Amen to that fb. I resent them being called "hunters".

Ditto X2

Just my $.02 but... a HUNTER takes care to make ABSOLUTELY sure that; the sheep he/she is hoping to shoot is legal...the 4 point is mulie really is a 4 point...the 10 point bull moose is truly a 10 point...he/she leaves camp cleaner than it was before...the animal is killed as humanely as possible...ok....I could go on...
I'm not perfect by any means, but I sure as hell know what zone I'm in...and as much as I love ham and bacon, I know damn well (whether I'm near a farm or hiking in "the middle of nowhere") that it's not legal to shoot a pig that just happens to be running around the woods!

[Paulyman]

I heard it was a mistaken hit by the Hells Angels; They thought it was the three bacon brothers... :)

[abbyfireguy]

That puts you in dangerous territory Pauly...You may want to edit your post..You never know how some people take a joke.

[urbanhermit]

seems like there is a disconnect there to protect livestock, doesn,t take too much to figure out they are from a farm but seems open for some one to take advantage if they plead ignorance. would a brand inspector have a say here or is that just cattle?

[BigfishCanada]

Pauly, thats hilarious, farmer should be charged also. wayward pigs can cause some serious issues if they went wild

[CanuckShooter]

Reminds me of the American going hOme with a jackass that he thought was a moose! Shooting livestock is rustling and a hanging offense in my books! This has to be the most absurd thing I've read on here since they were telling us the hst was good for us!

[Paulyman]

I don't think so, I have no malicious intent and either affliation would see that and probably see humour in my joke. If not I would be the first to apologize.
That puts you in dangerous territory Pauly...You may want to edit your post..You never know how some people take a joke.

[Big Lew]

It would seem to me, that if we were to follow the logic of those that would shoot them, then if we were to see a llama, ostrich, penguin, guinea-fowl, horse or cow, even though they all aren't listed in the regs. we can shoot them without concern if it's legal or not. That being the case, we should also be able to shoot any/all the damn cats and dogs that wander off their property.

[The Dude]

I heard it was a mistaken hit by the Hells Angels; They thought it was the three bacon brothers... :)

Now that's funny right there. :D
AFG:STFU

[RustyNail]

First of all the farmer would have to prove he owned the pigs in order to pursue any action, civil or criminal against these guys. Without distintive markings (ie tattoo) ect it would be difficult to do and the first big hurdle. I am not a farmer so I am unfamiliar with any potential methods of identifying specific pigs in order to verify ownership. That is but one issue. There are others.
The Wildlife Act would not be applicable as pigs are not wildlife as defined under the Wildlife Act so the CO is correct in stating it is a police issue.
As previously stated by another HBC member, any firearms contraventions (Criminal Code) could be pursued but unless there is something obvious, not likely as it would be difficult to prosecute. To claim the firearms were discharged in the direction of his residence without cooborating evidence would not be sufficient to warrant charges. They would just be claims by the farmer. Vicinity to the farmhouse though may be a factor if Careless Use of a Firearm was pursued.

The Criminal Code may be relevant further on as Section 445 reads as follows:

445. (1) Every one commits an offence who, wilfully and without lawful excuse,
(a) kills, maims, wounds, poisons or injures dogs, birds or animals that are not cattle and are kept for a lawful purpose; or
(b) places poison in such a position that it may easily be consumed by dogs, birds or animals that are not cattle and are kept for a lawful purpose.
Punishment
(2) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1) is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term of not more than eighteen months or to both.


Stiff penalties for sure. I am unfamiliar with how the Justice System has ruled on this in the past but legal precedent would matter here. There is a lot of unknown information though.


There are many other Provincial Statutes that might have some applicability, for example, the Livestock Act, which reads:
"at large" does not apply to livestock that is
(a) tethered,
(b) in the direct or continuous charge of a person,
(c) confined in a structure, or
(d) on enclosed land owned or occupied by the owner of the livestock;
"enclosed land" means land that is surrounded by a natural or human made barrier sufficient to exclude or contain livestock;"game" means game as defined in the Game Farm Act that is being raised for agricultural purposes under a licence issued under that Act;
"grazier" means a person who grazes cattle at large under the Range Act;
"keeper" means a keeper appointed under this Act for a pound district and, in respect of livestock impounded outside a pound district, includes the person who impounded the livestock;
"livestock" means cattle, goats, horses, sheep, swine and game and includes any other animal designated by regulation;

Capture of animals at large
8 (1) Subject to subsection (2), animals at large in the following circumstances may be captured by a keeper, peace officer, person authorized by the director, the livestock owner or the owner of land on which the livestock is at large:
(a) livestock on enclosed land or in a pound district;
(b) stallions and bulls apparently over one year old on land other than land in a livestock district;
(c) swine on land other than land of the owner of the swine;
19 (1) A person must not do any of the following:
(a) allow livestock to be at large contrary to this Act;
(b) capture or impound livestock contrary to this Act;


Not just anyone can capture the livestock according to the Act, but they didn't capture the swine. Of course, there may be a legal definition for "capture" that would have to be researched.


So, this is a technical legal issue. I have heard there is a section in the RCMP that deals with livestock matters for scenarious just like this and they could give a more informed expression. I am simply reading the statutes and relaying the information, albeit in parts.


There are simply not enough details at this point from the article to make a coherent determination one way or the other, except that these guys are taking chances and creating grief for themselves needlessly. Plus, it makes all hunters look bad as media likes to build up the bad hunter image and it links their "careless actions" to hunting. It seems it may be a Criminal Offense, but I would suggest there is no likelihood of conviction. A lot of legal issues would have to be covered off during the police investigation. I suspect these guys will get lucky as far as any legal issues go in the end. In the meantime, they may have to incur some costs to cover the legal issues.


Still, I wouldn't do it as morally it is wrong to shoot domestic animals in vicintity of a farm, regardless of whether they were loose or not, regardless of whether it is criminal or not. The correct action would be to report the animals loose to the nearest farmer or CO. Let the CO's deal with the feral animal issues.


RN

[Livewire322]

Is game not all feral except the ones you feed out the kitchen door? You can they have have all the information in the annual Hunting & Trapping Regulations Synopsis. You just cannot go out and hunt feral livestock.

no... the wild game that is native to BC isn't feral because it wasn't once captive... well not the majority of it anyways.

[Mr. Dean]

Craaaap! :shock:

Anyone need some pork???

[Phil A. Bowl]

mmm mm good!

[silvicon]

OK, 5 pages of comment regarding the shooting of escaped pigs.
Pigs are master in busting out, we all have to agree on that.
The main words in the first (original) post are :Vancouver, "hunter", pigs.
Does that not say it all?

[coach]

Great post, Rusty. I'd say you hit the nail on the head. Nice research.

[Mr. Dean]

Pigs ARE (and note that I'm not saying; "can be") a menace when PERMITTED to run freely and at large in MY forests.... If they didn't taste sooooo damned good, I'd vote for them being exterminated.


The destruction that these things create is phenomenal.
They breed like rats-n-rabbits and are very, very hardy. When left to their own 'devices', the devastation that is imposed on wildlife is absolutely CRAZY. They are natures form of strip mining...

It's obvious that the Farmer felt guilty; why else would he be generous in offering up the older sow?
This Dude should have the book thrown at him for not containing HIS hazardous beasts.

[Glenny]

[QUOTE=silvicon;982575]OK, 5 pages of comment regarding the shooting of escaped pigs.
Pigs are master in busting out, we all have to agree on that.
The main words in the first (original) post are :Vancouver, "hunter", pigs.
Does that not say it all?[/QUOTE

Care to elaborate?

[Gateholio]

[QUOTE=silvicon;982575]OK, 5 pages of comment regarding the shooting of escaped pigs.
Pigs are master in busting out, we all have to agree on that.
The main words in the first (original) post are :Vancouver, "hunter", pigs.
Does that not say it all?[/QUOTE

Care to elaborate?

It's simple. 99% of silvicons posts are a complete waste of time.

[Phreddy]

It's obvious that the Farmer felt guilty; why else would he be generous in offering up the older sow?
This Dude should have the book thrown at him for not containing HIS hazardous beasts.

Welllllll..............I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that they had firearms and he didn't.

[levind]

phreddy i doubt it. I've met more than a few farmers and there not scared of hunters with guns. the only reason he gave them the sow was that he could get something out of the young ones. old sow is only good for sausage not much value except for breeding and after they are done with them they are practically given away.

[Mr. Dean]

Welllllll..............I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that they had firearms and he didn't.

Really???
He felt (farmer) threatened by the presence of a firearm and said; "Take the pig, have a good day". :confused:

I don't buy it. I also don't buy that he 'thought' his house was being fired at - If that was the case, why would he go out and confront the shooter(s) without calling in the authorities, or being armed himself, if he felt threatened??? I'd be ducking and looking for cover, and wanting some sort of back-up.


I'm not defending the pig-killers; I'm just saying that the stories aren't adding up.... Me thinks the Farmer heard shots, knew his pigs were out and on the lamb, went out to see whats up, fell for a BS story and then learning otherwise later on,,,, thought he'd try to get some saweeeeet justice because some City Slicker pulled one on him - His allegations don't add up IMO.

But then again, this is a media report and who knows what the truth actually is....

[frenchbar]

[QUOTE=Big Glenny;982644]

It's simple. 99% of silvicons posts are a complete waste of time.

your being generous with that percentage ...100% WASTE of time !!!!!!!!

[skibum]

Pigs ARE (and note that I'm not saying; "can be") a menace when PERMITTED to run freely and at large in MY forests.... If they didn't taste sooooo damned good, I'd vote for them being exterminated.


The destruction that these things create is phenomenal.
They breed like rats-n-rabbits and are very, very hardy. When left to their own 'devices', the devastation that is imposed on wildlife is absolutely CRAZY. They are natures form of strip mining...

Don't disagree that pigs have the potential and are a problem in some states down south, but in BC how much of a problem have pigs really been?... we are not talking about European wild boars here...

[Livewire322]

No but look at Christina lake if I'm not mistaken they have attacked people in that area...

[Mr. Dean]

Don't disagree that pigs have the potential and are a problem in some states down south, but in BC how much of a problem have pigs really been?... we are not talking about European wild boars here...

Without looking up stat's and going from a 'gut' perspective, not that bad ---> negligible.
But it only takes 3 unconfined, to create a shit-storm down the road. :wink:

Invasive Species are a biatch and we have had plenty of examples to learn from. Frankly, I'm a believer that "feral", anythings', should be killed on sight and recognized to do so in the Wildlife Act. Schedule C should read: Any domesticated animal running at large with exception too, cattle thats legally permitted in grazing leases/tenures. This would smarten up *some* of the people whom have ajoining crown lands, to use it at their desire/whims.

But until it is, I can't condone it. :sad:

[Mr. Dean]

No but look at Christina lake if I'm not mistaken they have attacked people in that area...

Off the top of my head, this is the only example that I can think of involving pigs.

[Jagermeister]

The story is all totally one sided. Mr. Frolick says that they didn't know what MU they were in, what is to say that they said it at all since Frolick is the only source of information to this point.
Mr Frolick should invest in some electric fencing and keep his pigs contained.
I know from experience that once pigs have had a taste of electric juice, they will give it a wide berth. Even when you move the perimeter, it will take them some time before they will venture past the former fence line.
I don't think more will come of this story, afterall, Frolick got 2 of his pigs back and gave the other one away.

[Mr. Dean]

I don't think more will come of this story, afterall, Frolick got 2 of his pigs back and gave the other one away.

Agreed.
I see that act as one of benevolence in helping to end a situation and that everyone parted company, feeling 'good' about the outcome.

Thunk!
Case Closed. :razz: