Inform the police

[Gateholio]

I've just mailed copies of this to our local RCMP. There continues to be much confusion with many RCMP about transport laws, and recently I was told of one incident where a man was arrested and charged because he was transporting his unrestricted rifle without a trigger lock.

An ounce of prevention is always good, so I urge gun clubs to send a similar letter to their local police force. (change it up as need be for different areas/police forces/CO services etc)

I dont' expect all the RCMP to know exactly the law, so best to inform them if possible. Here is a link to the RCMP "cheat sheet"

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/PDF/storage-entreposage-eng.pdf





To:
RCMP
Pemberton
Squamish
Whistler
cc Sgt. Chris Doyle, BC Conservation Officer Service

As President of the Pemberton Wildlife Association (PWA) I have had a number of reports over the last few years regarding incidents with RCMP and hunters and shooters about the transport of firearms.

Every year there are reports throughout BC about RCMP confusion with transport laws, and recently I heard about an incident in Squamish where a person that was supposedly lawfully transporting unrestricted firearms was subsequently charged with an offense.

Canada's firearms laws are complex and confusing, so it is understandable that RCMP and gun owners are often not completely familiar with all aspects of the regulations.

Most firearms in Canada are either Unrestricted (most rifles and shotguns) or Restricted (handguns and a few long guns)

To lawfully transport unrestricted firearms, (such as most rifles and shotguns) they need to be unloaded ONLY. To comply with federal law, they need not be trigger locked or placed in a case or any other measure, they simply need to not have any ammunition in the firearm itself. A detachable magazine loaded with cartridges but not inserted into the firearm does not constitute a loaded firearm. Ammunition is not required to be locked up or stored separately, in the glove box or in the trunk etc.

The non restricted firearms may be anywhere inside a vehicle or on a person (including the front seat, back seat, trunk, dashboard, gun rack etc).

Restricted firearms need to be unloaded, triggerlocked and encased during transport to comply with law.

For unattended transport (such as when the firearm owner has left the vehicle for any reason and cannot keep an eye on it) all firearms of any class must be locked in a trunk or similar compartment or in the case of a vehicle with no locking compartment (like a pick up truck) they must not be visible from the outside.

BC has hunting seasons throughout the entire year for different species, but most of the hunting is done in the fall and winter months, which is upon us now. As there appears to be much confusion regarding unrestricted and restricted firearms transport, I feel that this is an opportune time to encourage officers to become aware of legal firearms transport laws.

I've attached the RCMP firearms transport/storage info sheet and also cc'd Sgt. Chris Doyle of the BC Conservation Officer Service. Sgt. Doyle is very familiar with all aspects of firearm transport and is an excellent source of information regarding this matter.

As the Sea to Sky area has a large number of resident hunters and many hunters from the Lower Mainland come to Sea to Sky to hunt, I hope that confusion can be negated by some simple education of officers that may encounter gun owners in this area.

I am happy to discuss this further if needed, feel free to contact me.
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[Singleshotneeded]

GREAT IDEA! Years ago I had a female RCMP officer give me a ticket for speeding and insist I trigger lock my rifle and shot gun,
which were in their cases in my vehicle. I tried to explain that it wasn't necessary by law, but she insisted! Fortunately I had the
two trigger locks in my glove box, so I could do so...wonder what she would have done if I didn't have the trigger locks on me!?
Confiscate my firearms until she learned the law she was meant to be enforcing, after I'd driven to Smithers from Kelowna?

[lip_ripper00]

Thanks gate, mind if I pass this on? Had a similar problem myself in the past.

[odie1830]

Yes < been there . Young officer up by deka lake tried to tell me I has to have locks on my 30-06 while coming off horse lake road to junsen road. I have lived and hunted the area for the last 15 plus years and know the rules. Luckley an old timer rcmp came over to let the rookie know the rules, but i was pissed off. Hey they all need too learn and we cant expect perfection, if you are following the rules, nothing to worry about.

[SHAKER]

I think we've all been here or discussed it amongst ourselves them "legalities". I got into a discussion with a fellow at the range the other day about my "illegal transportation" of firearms....I knew it wasn't going to win the argument so with the truck running myself inside, I locked both my truck doors (windows down).... how's that for safe transporting buddy? Double locked just like you said!.....LOL

Seriously though good letter and yes they should be sent to RCMP to help educate some officers that arn't much more then meter maids for ICBC.

[greenhorn]

Always a good idea to print the rules and keep a copy in the glove box, easy way to settle misunderstandings.

[Morel]

Thank you Gatehouse! The advice from my firearms instructor was to print a copy and bring it with you when transporting firearms. If there appears to be a misunderstanding you can refer to the cheat sheet.

[Diesel13]

Thanks Gatehouse, I printed it and will keep it in the truck

[lovemywinchester]

Great idea Gatehouse. Younger RCMP have to learn through experience just like any other job. The gung ho attitudes they have will mellow as they learn the ropes. Just hope you don't get hassled by them before they figure it out. My core teacher told us a story about getting pulled over by a RCMP while going through PG with a moose in the truck. The officer was from Quebec and was making a stink about the fact the moose didn't have a tag in his nose. He said it took an hour to finally get going again.

[35 Whelen]

If that is their handout...it still doesn't address transportation of non restricted firearms. No where on that form does it lay out the method of transportation while a driver is in the veh. Therein lies the problem.

[bcfirefly]

^ was about to say the same thing

[Downwind]

If that is their handout...it still doesn't address transportation of non restricted firearms. No where on that form does it lay out the method of transportation while a driver is in the veh. Therein lies the problem.

Sure it does. It states right under "Transporting Firearms Safely" and the "Non-Restricted" Unload your firearms. Muzzleloaders can be kept loaded when being transported between hunting site, but the firing cap or flint must be removed.


The only requirement is that your non-restricted firearms be unloaded, nothing else.

[Jagermeister]

Thanks Clarke, that was a very timely post as I was looking for that pamphlet just a few minutes ago and was unable to locate it.
The POWER of HBC!

[358win]

I think it would help if they added under 'transport of non-restricted firearms' MOST RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS.
RCMP may not be familiar with the difference.
Good of you to add that in your letter Gate.

[Bow Walker]

Clarke - some of the confusion by the RCMP might come from the fact that they are a Federal police force and not a Provincial or a Municipal police force.

I'd bet that their superiors are pushing the Federal laws as their Holy Grail.

[Gateholio]

My hope is that all gun clubs throughout the province write similar letters to their local detachments for a province wide education plan. It should help hunters and cops.

[slowkey]

copy the link to your smart phones so you have a back up as well. paper gets wet and lost

[Hydrojet]

I got the third degree once and produced this and in the pamphlet it says that yes unrestricted fire arm can be transported unlocked and unloaded with amunition nearby and the only limitation is that I wasn't in a "remote wilderness area"......I was on chilliwack lake road and no ticket was issued but I was told to lock up...which I did since it was easier than arguing but what is the definition of remote wilderness? I would think this would be the cause of any confusion.

[keoke]

I think the remote wilderness applies to the storage laws, not transportation.

[ford1]

Thank you Gatehouse and I also printed this off and it is in my truck.

[quadrakid]

I keep a copy of he RCMP pamphlet in my vehicle.I think i picked them up at the Service BC offices.

[brian]

You can drive through the city without trigger locks, no need for remote wilderness etc. That section only applies to storage. Seriously the rules aren't that difficult to read. I have the regs in my glove compartment and I have the relevant bits highlighted so even the dimmest person can read them easily.

[lineofsight]

Can scroll down to "Information" and "RCMP Reference Sheet" (http://members.shaw.ca/firearmssafetycourse/FirearmsSafetyCourse/Resources.html) that is a bit more explicit about the requirements. Laminate and keep with car insurance.

Good job being proactive Gatehouse.

[35 Whelen]

Even that reference sheet doesn't mention that you can legally drive around with an non restricted firearm in plain view WITHOUT it being locked with a trigger or cable lock. And this is where they fall down. They need to lay it out in PLAIN language for their members plain and simple. They are going to end up with a hell of a lawsuit one day arresting the wrong guy..........just sayin,

[35 Whelen]

Sure it does. It states right under "Transporting Firearms Safely" and the "Non-Restricted" Unload your firearms. Muzzleloaders can be kept loaded when being transported between hunting site, but the firing cap or flint must be removed.


The only requirement is that your non-restricted firearms be unloaded, nothing else.

Agreed, and there is the problem.....they think that unloaded also means with a locking device, and that is not true. Believe me after 31 years in law enforcement...if it isn't written out in plain language, they don't get it. The CFC used to put out a very good pamphlet on transportation, and in true RCMP fashion, they have digested and regurgitated it in far too simple a language. And when you leave people to assume that unloaded means locked up too it makes an ass out of the member.

[westwayshooter]

My hope is that all gun clubs throughout the province write similar letters to their local detachments for a province wide education plan. It should help hunters and cops.

With all the people that you sent this to, you saved me the stamp, as they are same people for me. I'm also a member of HACS and we have the pamphlet on the front table as well. We've had issues around the gun show for display too.

[.303]

This is the exact reason I carry a transportation pamphlet in every gun case that I am carrying so that some uneducated LEO doesn't try and impress "the law" according to them on me.

[Downwind]

Agreed, and there is the problem.....they think that unloaded also means with a locking device, and that is not true. Believe me after 31 years in law enforcement...if it isn't written out in plain language, they don't get it. The CFC used to put out a very good pamphlet on transportation, and in true RCMP fashion, they have digested and regurgitated it in far too simple a language. And when you leave people to assume that unloaded means locked up too it makes an ass out of the member.

Well then wouldn't it state locked up? Every other part states if it requires a gun lock, bolt removed, etc. I think it is pretty straight forward. I keep that sheet with me all the time and if a cop said that I wasn't meeting the compliance I would ask him/her to point out where it stated and they would not be able to because it only states that it needs to be unloaded. It is in a simple language as you can get I think but then there are some pretty SIMPLE cops out there too. I have family that's RCMP so I feel that I can say that :D

[6616]

Good job Clark.

[Monashee]

TRANSPORTATION OF NON-RESTRICTED FIREARMS

10. (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if
(a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and
(b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.
(2) Subject to subsection (3), an individual may transport a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle only if
(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the non-restricted firearm, is securely locked.
(3) If, in a remote wilderness area that is not subject to any visible or otherwise reasonably ascertainable use incompatible with hunting, an individual is transporting a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle that is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, and the vehicle or the part of it that contains the non-restricted firearm cannot be securely locked, the individual shall ensure that the non-restricted firearm
(a) is not visible; and
(b) is rendered inoperable by a secure locking device, unless the individual reasonably requires the non-restricted firearm for the control of predators.

[Monashee]

I have a problem with 10 (3) Exactly what is a remote wilderness area ? Who decides what is a reasonable use incompatible with hunting ? 10 (3) needs to be written in plain english not this crap

The average police officer these days comes from an urban area .... they will bring their personal biases with them so if a law is open to interpretation involving firearms I foresee conflict.

[Gateholio]

(3) If, in a remote wilderness area that is not subject to any visible or otherwise reasonably ascertainable use incompatible with hunting, an individual is transporting a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle that is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, and the vehicle or the part of it that contains the non-restricted firearm cannot be securely locked, the individual shall ensure that the non-restricted firearm
(a) is not visible; and
(b) is rendered inoperable by a secure locking device, unless the individual reasonably requires the non-restricted firearm for the control of predators.


It's easy....If it's an area that is legal to hunt, it qualifies. So if you are hunting and want to store your gun on your ATV, cover it with a blanket and put a trigger lock on it.

[walks with deer]

Gatehouse

Thanks for the printout and the club email this weekend while bow hunting in a nasty(bear area) I went through a road block and the cop was trying to confinscate my back up gun (marlin lever action) that is 2 years old because i did not have my registration on me and it was in my safe at home.
I had my pal on me and he wanted the paper he was a realy rude and (i argued the law back )when some drunks rolled in he let me go.

I understood I was fully legal.

These cops need to learn the laws they are inforcing.