Scouting 101: My 4 factors of Deer Movement

[Stéphane]

Actually, they're not mine, but our own Hunter Writer's(Othmar) who wrote a nice article on scouting in the last publication of "The Outdoor Edge".

According to Othmar, a good scout looks for 4 factors that will dictate where and when deer move: food, cover, terrain and structure. Definitely worth the read. Seems to echo what must successful members here do anyway.

[elkdom]

Othmar then MISSED a couple VERY important factors, weather and moon phases ,,,:?

[RoscoeT]

Othmar then MISSED a couple VERY important factors, weather and moon phases ,,,:?

Weather and moon phase is not part of scouting. Rather they are part of hunting. You don't know what the weather will be when you scout trails and bedding locations a week or 2 before the rut.

[elkdom]

Weather and moon phase is not part of scouting. Rather they are part of hunting. You don't know what the weather will be when you scout trails and bedding locations a week or 2 before the rut.

and what you think you know 2 weeks before the rut, often means nothing 2 weeks into the rut!

weather and moon phase has a HUGE bearing on deer patterns, ALL year round,

and after killing probably 75 or 80 deer in my hunting years, several of them B&C book deer, I HOLD weather and moon phase in the TOP prerequisites for locating big game,,

[Stéphane]

and what you think you know 2 weeks before the rut, often means nothing 2 weeks into the rut!

weather and moon phase has a HUGE bearing on deer patterns, ALL year round,

and after killing probably 75 or 80 deer in my hunting years, several of them B&C book deer, I HOLD weather and moon phase in the TOP prerequisites for locating big game,,
Care to tell us a bit more on the subject?

[huntwriter]

For scouting the moon phase and weather play no role in determining deer travel patterns. Travel patterns remain the same regardless of moon phases, for those who believe in them, or weather conditions. The only things that change are frequency of travel and time of day.

Here is the link to the article (http://www.othmarvohringer.com/hunting_tips/articles/The_Four_Factors_Of_Deer_Movement.html).

[springpin]

It is a good article, well written.

[Shooter]

IMO scouting an area is for the purpose of determining if deer are in the vicinity. Learning how the deer move or react during different weather or moon phases comes after you have determined deer are present. That is the second phase of "scouting" called learning the area. If you want to be successful in a given area then you should learn it and know it as good or BETTER than the deer you would like to kill.

Deer need those 4 factors to be present before they will inhabit a given area in any numbers. That doesn't mean that if you find those 4 things that there are deer guaranteed to be there. The old saying goes "hunt where deer are, not where you think they should be."

[lovemywinchester]

and what you think you know 2 weeks before the rut, often means nothing 2 weeks into the rut!

weather and moon phase has a HUGE bearing on deer patterns, ALL year round,

and after killing probably 75 or 80 deer in my hunting years, several of them B&C book deer, I HOLD weather and moon phase in the TOP prerequisites for locating big game,,

Why don't you start a thread on moon phases and its effect. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. It never occurred to me this could be important to deer.

[huntwriter]

Why don't you start a thread on moon phases and its effect. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. It never occurred to me this could be important to deer.

The influence of the moon phases is negligible on deer movement. There are far more important circumstances that influence deer movement -not to be confused with movement patterns- than the moon. Things such as hunting pressure, rutting activity, predator population and weather have much greater influence on deer movement.

The moon phase theory is the brainchild of the late Jeff Murray, the inventor of the moon wheel. He promoted his theory heavily, even had his own TV show. Later Charles Alzheimer jumped on Jeff's bandwagon and became his business partner, together and with a lot of hype they created quite the movement. Hunters looking for an edge jumped at the idea that all you had to do is "dial in the moon phase" and you will be successful. However, whitetail deer biologists, among them the acclaimed whitetail deer expert Larry Weishuhn, have time and again refuted that theory with sound research data. In the mid-90's I used Jeff's moon guide too for a while but quickly learned through observation, study and careful notes that the moon had very little effect on deer movement. On an interesting side note on that subject. Both, Jeff and Charles have been asked several times to prove their moon phase theory in front of a deer biologist and beaviour expert panel. Each time they refused to do so. After Jeff passed away and the business folded Charles Alzheimer quit doing his moon phase seminar. ;)

[dana]

You should note that when you say 'deer' you mean whitetails. The number one factor of mule deer movement is easily defined by the word 'Randomness'. :)

[huntwriter]

You should note that when you say 'deer' you mean whitetails. The number one factor of mule deer movement is easily defined by the word 'Randomness'. :)

I thought that was obvious since the OP pointed to a whitetail deer article. :)

[Jagermeister]

WOW! This is getting testy!

[Whonnock Boy]

I don't know HW. I find it strange that year after year, I have seen peek rutting of Moose, Elk, and deer coincide with full moons. I have to agree with Elkdom on this one. I am a believer of the Solunar tables.

[msawyer]

Othmar...

As a biologist and scientist myself, I often refer to the primary literature on biological questions. Please help us all by providing references to the scholarly works (ie refereed research papers) you claim debunk the claim that WT behavioural patterns are being influence by moon phase or weather.



I'm not aware of any.



Best regards


Mike Sawyer

[huntwriter]

I don't know HW. I find it strange that year after year, I have seen peek rutting of Moose, Elk, and deer coincide with full moons. I have to agree with Elkdom on this one. I am a believer of the Solunar tables.

For discussion sake lets look at some irrefutable facts.

The moon phases are exactly the same across North America. When there is a full moon in British Columbia then it is full moon in Florida and anywhere in between too. That is a fact.

It's also an irrefutable fact that in some areas of North America the rut begins as early as September while in others the rut begins in early October, mid October and even late October and into November. Despite what some may believe the rut does not start at the precise same time frame across North America. If as you believe the rut coincides with the full moon it would make sense that the rut begins across North America at the same time, but as I established that doesn't happen. I don't doubt you for a minute that the rut in YOUR area coincides with the full moon, but that is pure coincidence.

Here is the reason why the rut starts at different times in North America. Mother Nature arranged it so that the young are born when the climate offers the best survival chance for the fawns with plentiful of nutritious food available for the mother to produce milk. For example in Florida the rut begins in late September. If as you say the rut coincides with the full moon then our deer would start breeding in September too. This in turn would mean that our fawns would be born around February, like in Florida. The gestation period of a whitetail deer is approximately six month (200 days). February in Florida is a great time to raise young but here in BC it is the worst imaginable time. The best way I found to establish the rut in any given area is not by checking the moon phases but simply observe when the bulk of fawns are born in the spring and then count back approximately 200 days and presto there is your height of the rut activity.

[dana]

HW,
I've not read nor will I read the article. This thread said, 'deer' and didn't mention whitetails. I do know you don't know much about muleys even though they are the #1 hunted species in this province. I do know you have trouble identifying mule deer when you see one thus the reason you wrote an article about the so-called hybrid that wasn't a hybrid. :)

[Doc Sprat]

2nd year of hunting:

Here in the Elk Valley its been hot for weeks(+30c), with no rain. Were finally getting a good dousing... the deer/elk will be more active during the day. what else caN one assume the deer will be doing more of when temp drops.
Does the moon play an effect on the rut at all? Is this a gravity, or light related issue...
Was told the first frost will start the rutt? anytruth to this

Ben

[huntwriter]

Othmar...

As a biologist and scientist myself, I often refer to the primary literature on biological questions. Please help us all by providing references to the scholarly works (ie refereed research papers) you claim debunk the claim that WT behavioural patterns are being influence by moon phase or weather.



I'm not aware of any.



Best regards


Mike Sawyer

I've no Internet links and do not know how to scan papers and post them on the internet.

Maybe this will help you.
Larry Weisshuhn, 1995 Deer and the Moon. Quote: "The moon has no measurable effect on deer movement."

Frederik Toates nd animal behaviourist, like myself, wrote in 1980 in his paper, Does the moon influence deer behaviour? "Minimal evidence is present to support any of these lunar theories. It is my contention there is minimal evidence in support of these theories due to the fact that whitetail movement is not predominantly determined by the moon, but rather by other environmental conditions which are more significant to the animal’s survival. "

These are the papers I had on my desk. I am happy to look for other studies on the subject in my files for you as soon I get the time to do it. But as I said they are all hard copy and I've no clue as to how to put them on a website.

[huntwriter]

2nd year of hunting:

Here in the Elk Valley its been hot for weeks(+30c), with no rain. Were finally getting a good dousing... the deer/elk will be more active during the day. what else caN one assume the deer will be doing more of when temp drops.
Does the moon play an effect on the rut at all? Is this a gravity, or light related issue...
Was told the first frost will start the rutt? anytruth to this

Ben

The moon or first frost do not trigger the rut. The does trigger the rut. When the does are ready to breed the rut will start. The does are ready to breed when their built in calendar, so to speak, tells them what time of year the chances are at a peak to raise young. Some years ago I was involved in a deer management program. We transported deer from Michigan to Texas for a breeding program. The rut in Texas starts earlier than in Michigan. The first year the Michigan deer started to rut late but the second year they adjusted their "calendar" to the new climate and came into the rut the same time the Texas deer did. The moon remained the same and there is no frost in southern Texas.

Cooler weather, frost included, gets deer moving more then in warm, or hot weather conditions simply because it is more tolerable for the deer in cooler weather conditions to move around.

[Doc Sprat]

Sounds like an interesting job.

[7mag700]

WOW! This is getting testy!

A little testy, but actually its a pretty interesting thread.

7m7

[dana]

What you'll see missing here is that in BC there are a ton of whitetails that are migratory. The Christian Valley herd is a prime example of this. A lot of these whitetails travel great distances from summer range to winter range. A lot of them spend the summer and the early season above treeline just like the muleys. If you think you can pattern these bucks in the prerut you've got a long uphill battle that you probably won't win. They can move great distances in a short short period of time. And during the rut, a buck can be working one doe one day and be miles away the next day chasing another doe. Huntwriter is used to hunting them in the states on private ground where treestands and baiting hold the deer to the same property. Here in BC, very little whitetail hunting is actually done on private. I find it really interesting that a magazine that focus' on BC has writers that don't spend a lot of time hunting here. TJ was mentioned in another thread. He contributes to BC outdoors yet he's an Albertan and only hunts here in BC when he's being guided. While he's hunted our sheep and such, 99% of the time, he has someone else doing the work for him, ie guide outfitters.

[huntwriter]

Huntwriter is used to hunting them in the states on private ground where treestands and baiting hold the deer to the same property. Here in BC, very little whitetail hunting is actually done on private.

That of course is pure assumption on your part. The truth of the matter is that I did, and still do, most of my hunting on public land in America (here it's called Crown Land). Since I moved to Canada with my lovely Canadian wife I do over 90% of the hunting here in BC and on Crown Land. I've access to two private properties which I hunt maybe four days per season. I've hunted over bait on two invitational hunts in Texas and found that it does not make killing a deer easier. It's a big misconception people who never did it have about baiting.




I find it really interesting that a magazine that focus' on BC has writers that don't spend a lot of time hunting here. TJ was mentioned in another thread. He contributes to BC outdoors yet he's an Albertan and only hunts here in BC when he's being guided. While he's hunted our sheep and such, 99% of the time, he has someone else doing the work for him, ie guide outfitters.Again assumptions. The majority of BC Outdoor writers DO live and hunt in BC, me included. T.J. Shwanky does hunt with a guide some of the time he also hunts quite often without one. Not that there is anything wrong with hiring a guide of course.