summer pursuit seasons?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Each summer I struggle with the fact that the hounds are supposed to refrain from chasing bears. Even though our valley is full of black and grizzly to the point that the bears are become less afraid each year.
I have talked to the regional biologist and have suggested that hounds be able to pursue bear during the summer months, especially in areas with human conflict.
There are a pile of problem bears through out BC, that if delt with before they get comfortable in a urbin setting would move on. These bears require hazing with dogs, rubber bullets or even a sling shot. I know when a bear hangs around our summer camp, the hounds are released, season or no season. Only once in 7 years has a bear come back to take up residence.This bear was reported then shot and dumped as per the CO's direction.

Would the average Joe boot hunter back this idea or should we take it to next level and just have no closed season on bears, I would actually prefer no closed season, as this would eliminate some of the burden on the CO's dealing with the problems.
What are your thoughts???

[Barracuda]

I like the no closed season idea or at least a pursuit only from june 15 to sept 10

[Bear Chaser]

Pursuit only sounds really good until you get a bear that won't tree. Bears that have whipped other packs and are legged up and not too fat can pose a real problem if they won't run. What do you do then? If you like your dogs there's only one choice. I would wholeheartedly support no closed season on bears even though I haven't hunted with hounds in about fifteen years.

[bayou]

The thing I find strange is you say you already release your hounds season or no season makes a guy wonder what else gets run up there outa season.

[pg83]

I think most people on this site would try to run a bear out of their camp if there was one there. This in no way means that they would chase every bear they see simply for the exercise. Assumptions are better made with information to back them up.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Bayou, I have a kids camp at our ranch and bears hanging around is a no no. Chasing them gives them a chance to live.

Bear chaser, you wade into the bayup and pull your dogs. I tree piles of bear each spring and fall and my dogs will come off a bear if I get close enough and call them. Sometime electricity is needed.

[Big Lew]

When talking to the regional biologist, did he express his concerns, or those of the conservation department in regards to allowing pursuit during the summer months? My only concern would be for the safety of very young cubs....other than that, I don't see why you, and other houndspersons shouldn't be able to train your dogs during the summer, pursuit only. I do have reservations about a 'no closed season' for bears though, as it is already hard to control all poaching.

[r106]

The thing I find strange is you say you already release your hounds season or no season makes a guy wonder what else gets run up there outa season.

so if a bear was hanging around your camp you don't chase it away? by releasing the hounds he might have saved the bears life

[bayou]

Bayou, I have a kids camp at our ranch and bears hanging around is a no no. Chasing them gives them a chance to live.

Bear chaser, you wade into the bayup and pull your dogs. I tree piles of bear each spring and fall and my dogs will come off a bear if I get close enough and call them. Sometime electricity is needed.

From what you have posted in the past you live in a fairly isolated area (in the bush) so to speak if this is where you also hold your camp for the kids then what fault is it of the bears. Why are bears hanging around? If the outdoors its inhabitants and your camp is a safty concern to the children then maybe it should be closed down or moved to town. If you are running out of season then technicaly it is illegal, why a guide/outfitter or anybody for that matter would be allowed to do this does not sound right. I know of others that have been charged for running out of season.

[bayou]

so if a bear was hanging around your camp you don't chase it away? by releasing the hounds he might have saved the bears life

Releasing the hounds (hunting) out of season is illegal.

[Gateholio]

Using dogs to deter bears from eating children at a kids camp is not illegal.

[TimberPig]

A little over 20 years ago, there was no closed season for black bears in the Cariboo, and we could also choose to leave the meat for other critters to eat as well. The bear populations were healthy then and even more so now, as the number of people hunting them has decreased.

Personally I see no reason for them to be closed in the summer, other than to please greenie types, who would really prefer there was no season at all. I would support No Closed Season for black bears, as there is no conservation concern for them in the Cariboo.

[Peter Pepper]

so if a bear was hanging around your camp you don't chase it away? by releasing the hounds he might have saved the bears life

No no no, you put up a sign saying "No bears allowed" and maybe even write a letter to your local MP and newspaper. They will send out a CO and a reporter and they will explain to the bear that they shouldn't hang around camps. Or maybe tell you to stop hanging around the forrest.
Yup, that the correct and legal way to stop a bear eating you kids

[scallywag]

release the hounds....

[scallywag]

Releasing the hounds (hunting) out of season is illegal.

i let my shepherd chase rabbits all the time it is funny as hell and he is getting pretty frickin good at it. i hope this upsets you.. if there was a bear in my neighbourhood i would me and my dog are all over it. there is childern and other pets all over and if its illegal well shit sorry for doing the right thing.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Bears are only chased if they hang around. Tank,the yard dog which is a decent bear dog should be enough deterant you would, think but the odd one returns for more. Then the big boys are called on. I have a pretty good relationship with both the CO's and the regional biologist and don't abuse it. I think the open season during the summer months could be the answer to alot of bear problems.

[LOC]

We have pursuit seasons for cougar and game birds, and August 1st bear season in Reg 8 (private land only but still...) so I can't see a good reason not to allow summer pursuit, or a full summer season on them. Certainly no shortage in most (all) parts of BC!!

[leadpillproductions]

Id be ok with an no closed season for bears that would sure help the problems with bears . Plus id have more stuff to hunt.

[Big Lew]

I personally don't see a problem with "chilcotin hillbilly" releasing his hounds from his 'kids camp' area to reduce the possibility of bear related injuries within his camp. It would be much preferred as he would be within his rights to shoot them if they were a threat to those children, especially since other methods such as bear bangers etc. don't always work to keep them away very long. 'Walk a mile in his shoes before passing judgment', what would you do if in that same situation?

[BlacktailStalker]

A pursuit season would be ideal and I have had the same thoughts about this many times.

[Fisher-Dude]

We're trying to get a pursuit season in region 8 to coincide with the Aug 1 private land season. Lots of time the houndsmen are called in to put the run on a bear during the Aug private land bear season, but dogs don't always stop at the property line. Makes sense to let them chase the bears well into Crown land and shoot the bears if they remain on private land.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Your right Big Lew, Even the greenies in the area are starting to pack guns instead of bear bangers as the bear bangers have turnout to be a novilty only for a lot of bears. I do try and get people to report conflicts with bears so the CO's have a record of the problems. Unfortunately a lot of people think we live in the wild west and take care of the problems without reporting. You can't blame them especially with Grizzly, I would rather have a pile of complaints on the CO's desk and then maybe we can have a season on them as well.

[bayou]

Bears are only chased if they hang around. Tank,the yard dog which is a decent bear dog should be enough deterant you would, think but the odd one returns for more. Then the big boys are called on. I have a pretty good relationship with both the CO's and the regional biologist and don't abuse it. I think the open season during the summer months could be the answer to alot of bear problems.

So its a who you know kinda thing, well since they have set a precident by allowing you to do it hope they dont plan on charging others if they are caught doing it.

[bayou]

I personally don't see a problem with "chilcotin hillbilly" releasing his hounds from his 'kids camp' area to reduce the possibility of bear related injuries within his camp. It would be much preferred as he would be within his rights to shoot them if they were a threat to those children, especially since other methods such as bear bangers etc. don't always work to keep them away very long. 'Walk a mile in his shoes before passing judgment', what would you do if in that same situation?
Like I said if its such a safty concern then maybe the camp should be moved or closed. If its a wilderness camp then wildlife should be expected. He runs bears there all spring so the chasing doesnt seem to be scaring the bears away. Why are they now atracted to the camp, more garbage etc. Oh and I have worked in a kids wilderness camp before, mind you it had a bigger population of grizzlys over blackbears.

[leadpillproductions]

So its a who you know kinda thing, well since they have set a precident by allowing you to do it hope they dont plan on charging others if they are caught doing it.

I was thinking the same thing

[Gateholio]

. Oh and I have worked in a kids wilderness camp before, mind you it had a bigger population of grizzlys over blackbears.

So when the black bears and grizzlies came too close to the camp, did you

A) Ignore them and run the risk of having a kid end up injured or killed

or

B) Deter them/ chase them off

[Big Lew]

I also was involved in introducing youngsters to the outdoors. I, along with chaperon parents would take school children on weekend wilderness hikes. Black bears were always a bit of a concern, but cougars were the bigger threat. Having someone with hounds putting fear of dogs and humans in the area sure would have been welcome.....and we weren't very far from populated areas.

[Gateholio]

So its a who you know kinda thing, well since they have set a precident by allowing you to do it hope they dont plan on charging others if they are caught doing it.

More likely the CO's are using common sense and would prefer to have a few black bears barked at a bit and run off by dogs than have to go out and deal with a kid that has been injured or killed by a bear.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Its not a who you know at all, I only call them if a bear is going to die, which has only happened once in seven years. A three hour drive for the Co's would be the other option so they can set a trap and come back to get the bear and dispose of it. I have know problem admitting to a CO, my dogs chased a bear off the property, they would have to be a complete moron to think that was a problem. Commom sense is obviously not some peoples forte.

[Bear Chaser]

Bear chaser, you wade into the bayup and pull your dogs. I tree piles of bear each spring and fall and my dogs will come off a bear if I get close enough and call them. Sometime electricity is needed.

Fair enough. That would be the distant second option for me.
One of the other posters worried about small cubs. Has it been your experience that problem bears are sows with small cubs?
I would suspect otherwise and that it is the solitary three year olds that need a manners lesson.
I still think that no closed season would be the answer to all our prayers.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

bear chaser , you hit the nail on the head. 3 and 4 yearold bears for the most part. The old boar that was shot a few years ago was a huge bear full of worm and only about 1/3 of his hair left on his body. Definately not doing well.

This is not an every day occurance, a couple times a month this happens it. For the most part Tank keeps them a way himself and needs no help, summer is the worst time as the berries are ripe throughout the valley.

[Big Lew]

I fully realize that sows with cubs are not normally the problem. My concern for the very young cubs was if the general season was open throughout the summer. Not all 'Houndspersons' are fully experienced, properly equipped, or ethical enough to resist turning their dogs loose on any bear, including one with new-born cubs. If those of you with experience can educate us to alleviate our concerns, I am certainly open to changing my mind.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Most houndsmen with good dogs let thier dogs go on what is called a strike and don't know what they are letting their dogs chase until they tree. In a lot of BC it is difficult to find a track to check before letting the dogs go.
Young cubs are usually the safest as the first sign of danger the mom sends them climbing and alot of times will take the dogs for a run to distract them and keep the cubs tree. Young cubs must not have much scent as I have had hounds run underneith cubs while tracking the sow.

You have to remember the spring season is open when the cubs are even smaller. Regular boot hunters are responsible for orphaning more cubs then houndsmen. As a houndsmen has time to check for sex before pulling the trigger.

[GoatGuy]

Sounds like a site specific problem - should be site specific solutions.

[Big Lew]

Most houndsmen with good dogs let thier dogs go on what is called a strike and don't know what they are letting their dogs chase until they tree. In a lot of BC it is difficult to find a track to check before letting the dogs go.
Young cubs are usually the safest as the first sign of danger the mom sends them climbing and alot of times will take the dogs for a run to distract them and keep the cubs tree. Young cubs must not have much scent as I have had hounds run underneith cubs while tracking the sow.

You have to remember the spring season is open when the cubs are even smaller. Regular boot hunters are responsible for orphaning more cubs then houndsmen. As a houndsmen has time to check for sex before pulling the trigger.

Good answer, thanks.

[bayou]

I also was involved in introducing youngsters to the outdoors. I, along with chaperon parents would take school children on weekend wilderness hikes. Black bears were always a bit of a concern, but cougars were the bigger threat. Having someone with hounds putting fear of dogs and humans in the area sure would have been welcome.....and we weren't very far from populated areas.

Why such fear of bears and cats. Why does everybody use kids as a scape goat, when ever theres a bear or cat around you have to get rid of it to save the kids from getting killed. Wheres all the stats, storys etc of all these kids being killed by cats and bears, people make it sound like every predator is out to kill someone. Dogs hurt more people, guns hurt more people, bees hurt more people more kids are hurt at or going to school, more kids are even hurt at summer camps.

[bayou]

Its not a who you know at all, I only call them if a bear is going to die, which has only happened once in seven years. A three hour drive for the Co's would be the other option so they can set a trap and come back to get the bear and dispose of it. I have know problem admitting to a CO, my dogs chased a bear off the property, they would have to be a complete moron to think that was a problem. Commom sense is obviously not some peoples forte.

If in fact it is a problem bear that is a threat then the COs should be called and it should put down. If its just a bear living in the bush where you have decided to put your home then so be it. If you run it out of season and the COs are fine with that then like I said they should not be charging others for it. But like you said people are still living in the wild west and do what they want up in your neck of the woods.
I always find it weird when people want to go live in the country, bush, wilderness then dont want what comes with it. Theres a bear in my yard, a deer ate my flowers, the elk ate my hay.

[bayou]

Most houndsmen with good dogs let thier dogs go on what is called a strike and don't know what they are letting their dogs chase until they tree. In a lot of BC it is difficult to find a track to check before letting the dogs go.
Young cubs are usually the safest as the first sign of danger the mom sends them climbing and alot of times will take the dogs for a run to distract them and keep the cubs tree. Young cubs must not have much scent as I have had hounds run underneith cubs while tracking the sow.

You have to remember the spring season is open when the cubs are even smaller. Regular boot hunters are responsible for orphaning more cubs then houndsmen. As a houndsmen has time to check for sex before pulling the trigger.

Interesting statment sure you have a better chance of checking the sex of a bear in a tree but how do you no the sow is making it back to her cubs, they could be up a tree miles from where the sow trees. Lots could happen in the mean time. Also you say the bears rarely come back after you chase them with the hounds sounds like there could be lots of orphaned cubs left out there.

[Gateholio]

Why such fear of bears and cats. Why does everybody use kids as a scape goat, when ever theres a bear or cat around you have to get rid of it to save the kids from getting killed. Wheres all the stats, storys etc of all these kids being killed by cats and bears, people make it sound like every predator is out to kill someone. Dogs hurt more people, guns hurt more people, bees hurt more people more kids are hurt at or going to school, more kids are even hurt at summer camps.

You sure have a knack for reading something that wasn't there....All he said is that predators is one concern to be aware of. He didn't say that it was their only concern.

[Gateholio]

If in fact it is a problem bear that is a threat then the COs should be called and it should put down. If its just a bear living in the bush where you have decided to put your home then so be it. If you run it out of season and the COs are fine with that then like I said they should not be charging others for it. But like you said people are still living in the wild west and do what they want up in your neck of the woods.
I always find it weird when people want to go live in the country, bush, wilderness then dont want what comes with it. Theres a bear in my yard, a deer ate my flowers, the elk ate my hay.

Yup, you sure like making up BS.

Living in the wilderness doens't mean you have to put up with bears encroaching on *your* space. Especially when you have a non lethal method like a dog barking to deter them from your home.

[Gateholio]

Interesting statment sure you have a better chance of checking the sex of a bear in a tree but how do you no the sow is making it back to her cubs, they could be up a tree miles from where the sow trees. Lots could happen in the mean time. Also you say the bears rarely come back after you chase them with the hounds sounds like there could be lots of orphaned cubs left out there.

It's like you aren't even reading what the rest of us are reading. Pretty amazing, really.

And you pull stuff out of thin air like suggesting that mother bears don't go find their cubs after putting them up a tree and dealing with a (real or perceived) threat. You shoudl study bear behavior a little more, it's certainly interesting to see.

[Big Lew]

Where do you read that I'm afraid of bears and cats, or that I want to get rid of them, and if you bother to research, you'll find numerous incidents of cats attacking people, quite often children. Responsible adults try to protect children regardless if it's from dogs, guns, bees, going to and from school, and while at summer camps, whichever way they can, which includes reducing the chances of nasty animal encounters. Using trained dogs to reduce bad animal/children incidents is just one option available. Bringing youngsters into a wilderness environment has it's risks. You do your best by trying to control how and where they go, you give constant supervision, but sometimes even if you're holding their hand, unpleasant things can happen. I've spent most of my long life enjoying the outdoors and during that time have had many encounters with most predators, some of them very close calls. If I can help it, I wouldn't want anyone else, especially a young child, to be traumatized by similar close calls, or worse.

[bayou]

Where do you read that I'm afraid of bears and cats, or that I want to get rid of them, and if you bother to research, you'll find numerous incidents of cats attacking people, quite often children. Responsible adults try to protect children regardless if it's from dogs, guns, bees, going to and from school, and while at summer camps, whichever way they can, which includes reducing the chances of nasty animal encounters. Using trained dogs to reduce bad animal/children incidents is just one option available. Bringing youngsters into a wilderness environment has it's risks. You do your best by trying to control how and where they go, you give constant supervision, but sometimes even if you're holding their hand, unpleasant things can happen. I've spent most of my long life enjoying the outdoors and during that time have had many encounters with most predators, some of them very close calls. If I can help it, I wouldn't want anyone else, especially a young child, to be traumatized by similar close calls, or worse.

Sorry Big Lew you used the words concern and big threat and Im talking about everyone ,media towns people etc etc not just you. Bottom line is bears , cougars etc live in the bush wilderness what ever you want to call it, your better off to explain this to the people and the possible consequences before you take them or there kids out there to make sure there aware or up to it. If you feel it may traumatize them.

[Gateholio]

Sorry Big Lew you used the words concern and big threat and Im talking about everyone ,media towns people etc etc not just you. Bottom line is bears , cougars etc live in the bush wilderness what ever you want to call it, your better off to explain this to the people and the possible consequences before you take them or there kids out there to make sure there aware or up to it. If you feel it may traumatize them.

"Possible consequences" are greatly reduced when you have prepared for any sort of threat. Learning first aid is a good preparation for injuries and bee stings, and using trained dogs can be a great preparation for predators.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Bayou, I don't get you do live in an apartment in the west end?? Nothing against apartments or the west end but it seems you don't get out much do you?? This evening we had another bear between the cabins of the house eating berries, Let the dogs out for a play before feeding, next thing you know the race is on and they treed it on the far corner of the property, turns out it was a two 1/2 year old boar if it comes back the CO's will get the call, I will spend your tax dollars and let them come out and spend a day or two trying to live trap it, and then kill it. Sounds like a great way to spend our tax dollars, I would garrentee any CO I talked to would tell me to dump the bear.
Last year I was working on my sled trailer and a young boar snuck up on me four times, each time closing the distant inside of 20 yards Scaring it a way didn't work, just I was heading for the house to get a gun my wife came back with the kids and her dogs, Tank and Buffy put the run on it. In hindsite I kick myself for not shooting that bear as it was a good canidate for the dump.

As far as sows separating from there cubs, it is only a temporary situation as a sow does not line out but usually loops around and heads back in same direction. Bear are said to have a 10 times better nose then a dog, they will back track to there cubs no different then a hound coming off the mountain on its own. They always find the truck or the place they where dumped.

[GoatGuy]

I always find it weird when people want to go live in the country, bush, wilderness then dont want what comes with it. Theres a bear in my yard, a deer ate my flowers, the elk ate my hay.

Should bring this up the next time your at the a&w for coffee.

[.300wsm]

Using dogs to deter bears from eating children at a kids camp is not illegal.


totally what was going to happen !!!

I was out the other day and spruce grouse came at my son I stood and looked in horror as my son didn't see this stealthy predator making his way for him. A quick read of the reg's and I saw the pursuit season thank goodness I released the gsp's just in time to point out the predator and stop him in his tracks. The predator flushed and will never stalk a child again cause he flew 50 maybe 60 yards into dense bush probably high in a tree. I knew he was coming for my son he had larger then normal spurs a definite man eater.

There should be no closed season on everything within 100 k's of city limit's to start then we know are kids and our city will be safe.

[Gateholio]

For charging grouse, you need a CRF rifle in a large caliber rifle and need to make accurate CNS shots...Good luck next time, they can be fearsome in packs! :)

[Nathaniel Poe]

Interesting statment sure you have a better chance of checking the sex of a bear in a tree but how do you no the sow is making it back to her cubs, they could be up a tree miles from where the sow trees. Lots could happen in the mean time. Also you say the bears rarely come back after you chase them with the hounds sounds like there could be lots of orphaned cubs left out there.

You sound like a citiot that has never been off pavement! LOL!!

[bayou]

Bayou, I don't get you do live in an apartment in the west end?? Nothing against apartments or the west end but it seems you don't get out much do you?? This evening we had another bear between the cabins of the house eating berries, Let the dogs out for a play before feeding, next thing you know the race is on and they treed it on the far corner of the property, turns out it was a two 1/2 year old boar if it comes back the CO's will get the call, I will spend your tax dollars and let them come out and spend a day or two trying to live trap it, and then kill it. Sounds like a great way to spend our tax dollars, I would garrentee any CO I talked to would tell me to dump the bear.
Last year I was working on my sled trailer and a young boar snuck up on me four times, each time closing the distant inside of 20 yards Scaring it a way didn't work, just I was heading for the house to get a gun my wife came back with the kids and her dogs, Tank and Buffy put the run on it. In hindsite I kick myself for not shooting that bear as it was a good canidate for the dump.

As far as sows separating from there cubs, it is only a temporary situation as a sow does not line out but usually loops around and heads back in same direction. Bear are said to have a 10 times better nose then a dog, they will back track to there cubs no different then a hound coming off the mountain on its own. They always find the truck or the place they where dumped.

Again do what you have to or want to do the first bear you mention was doing nothing but eating berries so need to call anyone. That is one of the main problems most of the calls to the COs are just sightings not a problem animal at all.
I have bears in my yard every fall for a month or 2 never had a problem.
Funny on some of the hound sites you go on there is lost dog section and storys, they dont seem to always find there way back as you say.
You guys can keep using this as your alternative ways of getting more seasons or reasons to shoot more animals it may work.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Bayou, The last bear I shot was 3 or 4 years ago I don't shoot them I just take pictures, unless I have a client and they are a sh$tty shot. The point of extending the season is to save taxpayers money with problem bears, turn a family camping trip into a hunting trip which can't be a bad thing.
My neighbout has lived here since 1934 and is 94 years old, he has never seen this amount of bears , infact in days past you might see a grizzly every second year now he says it is not uncommon to see 4 or five on one of his properties. There must be a problem bear statistic report somewhere for BC, Maybe Goat Guy knows where to look?

[dana]

Don't worry about Bayou. He's a houndsman that doesn't like other houndsmen doing anything. You turn out on a lion track and it turns out to be a female with kits and you tree them, you have broken the law as 'pursuit' means 'hunting' and it is illegal to 'hunt' a female with kits. Then gawd forbid if you actually kill a lion. Geeze, you are the biggest a$$hole in the world because all the other houndsmen in the province could have had the opportunity to tree that cat but you took that away from them by killing it. It don't matter what you do, you are always breaking the law in Bayou's mind. This week we got rid of one $hitstirrer on this site, and really that one was tame compared to Bayou. Over the years I've never ever seen a positive post by him. It is always keyboard accusations of illegal activity and if the mods paid attention, they would give him the boot just like the Grand Poohba.

[bayou]

Bayou, The last bear I shot was 3 or 4 years ago I don't shoot them I just take pictures, unless I have a client and they are a sh$tty shot. The point of extending the season is to save taxpayers money with problem bears, turn a family camping trip into a hunting trip which can't be a bad thing.
My neighbout has lived here since 1934 and is 94 years old, he has never seen this amount of bears , infact in days past you might see a grizzly every second year now he says it is not uncommon to see 4 or five on one of his properties. There must be a problem bear statistic report somewhere for BC, Maybe Goat Guy knows where to look?
well theres another comment I find strange and this is not just at you but at many that have posted on here and else where, So many say there is to many bears but dont shoot them in season anyway. You would think if they truely felt there was a over population or problem they would shoot there quota during the open season, but they dont now so why extend it. If the bear or cat is truely a problem then it should be dealt with properly but the truth is most are not there just sightings like you have said.

[bayou]

Don't worry about Bayou. He's a houndsman that doesn't like other houndsmen doing anything. You turn out on a lion track and it turns out to be a female with kits and you tree them, you have broken the law as 'pursuit' means 'hunting' and it is illegal to 'hunt' a female with kits. Then gawd forbid if you actually kill a lion. Geeze, you are the biggest a$$hole in the world because all the other houndsmen in the province could have had the opportunity to tree that cat but you took that away from them by killing it. It don't matter what you do, you are always breaking the law in Bayou's mind. This week we got rid of one $hitstirrer on this site, and really that one was tame compared to Bayou. Over the years I've never ever seen a positive post by him. It is always keyboard accusations of illegal activity and if the mods paid attention, they would give him the boot just like the Grand Poohba.

wrong on most accounts again, pretty much your whole post is your words or thoughts not my words or beliefs at all. Not a houndsman and dont think anything will happen to you if you turn out on a single track that ends up at a tree with kittens.
Yes Im against illegal activity And do realize that puts me as a minority in the hunting /outdoor world.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I do my part in harvesting bears by taking out clients and friends, I have no interest in eating bear and don't want to kill everybear, but educating them is another thing.

Its amazing that another houndsmen would be critical of such an idea like a summer pursuit season. Do you only chase lions, if so try something new. The easiest animal to catch with hounds is a lion. The more you have your hounds in the woods the better they become. Treeing bears is alot more of a challenge then a guy thinks. Hounds are like athletes and two months off in the summer is detrimental to their conditioning. Conditioning is not such a big deal if you are a weekend warrior but if you rely on your hounds to make a living they must stay in shape. It would be nice to go into September with them in top shape.

[dana]

Bayou,
So you hang out on hound forums just for the hell of it?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Dana, I had the impression Bayou was a houndsmen also???

[urbanhermit]

It's good you have a kids camp out in the bush, all kids should learn the bush! I say if the bear comes to you then release the hounds, we as humans are in charge and it should stay like that.

[bayou]

I do my part in harvesting bears by taking out clients and friends, I have no interest in eating bear and don't want to kill everybear, but educating them is another thing.

Its amazing that another houndsmen would be critical of such an idea like a summer pursuit season. Do you only chase lions, if so try something new. The easiest animal to catch with hounds is a lion. The more you have your hounds in the woods the better they become. Treeing bears is alot more of a challenge then a guy thinks. Hounds are like athletes and two months off in the summer is detrimental to their conditioning. Conditioning is not such a big deal if you are a weekend warrior but if you rely on your hounds to make a living they must stay in shape. It would be nice to go into September with them in top shape.

Just because I own a couple dogs I dont call my self a houndsman,thats just a label you guys like to use, and just because somebody does something they dont have to have the same views on the sport. Ive seen a few changes in the regs over the years and it is not neccesarily for the good and it is caused buy what you call houndsmen and it could get worse. You dont need a season to condition your dogs and know I dont do it for money.

[dana]

Dana, I had the impression Bayou was a houndsmen also???

I think it's a matter of Bayou being pissed off at any success any other hunter might have. He doesn't see that success himself so he figures if anyone else has success, they MUST be doing something illegal. He's the type that sees a thread of someones harvest pics and reads through all the congrats and finds a couple words in the thread that he can twist to make it sound like the animal was somehow harvested by illegal means. Say someone said, "Here is a picture of the deer we shot last night". Bayou jumps on the guy for pitlamping and party hunting because the words 'night' and 'we' were used. Everyone else on HBC knows the guy was meaning last evening he was part of a hunt that saw success, but nope, not to Bayou. This guy is a poacher that he is going to rake over the coals and destroy a perfectly good thread by his $hitstirring. Now of course I'm using an imaginary example, but this is the exact kind of BS that bayou pulls all the time. Especially when it comes to the use of hounds.

As for the original intent of this thread, I would fully support an No Closed Season on black bears. The only reason I can see as to why they have a summer closure is due to poor hide conditions. Bears can be rubbed really bad when the heat comes on. But because of the requirement to take meat, a ton of bear hunters no longer hunt bears for the sole purpose of hides. Who cares if a bear is rubbed. You don't need to make a rug out of each and every bear you've ever shot. Do we all save our deer hides so we can make buckskin pants? No! So why do we need to save a bear hide and only shoot bears when hides are in perfect condition?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

My thoughts exactly Dana. If you look at the average bear on HBC they are shot for meat not for the size.

Bayou, I run my dogs all the time but summer months are really bad for bears and the dogs can't go 1/2 mile without hitting a hot track . I get wore out just charging my zapper could you imagune how the hounds feel about it. A dog won't be in running shape unless he gets 20 plus miles of hard running a week, do the math thats a lot of juice.

[Big Lew]

"The only reason I can see as to why they have a summer closure is due to poor hide conditions. Bears can be rubbed really bad when the heat comes on. But because of the requirement to take meat, a ton of bear hunters no longer hunt bears for the sole purpose of hides. Who cares if a bear is rubbed. You don't need to make a rug out of each and every bear you've ever shot. Do we all save our deer hides so we can make buckskin pants? No! So why do we need to save a bear hide and only shoot bears when hides are in perfect condition? to my concerns about cubs, so I too, would support a 'year round season on black bear'"

"chilcotin hillbilly" gave a good argument to my concerns about young cubs, so, I to, would support a fully open season on black bears. And I suppose the 'poaching concern' would be there regardless.....maybe with more hunter's eyes out there year round, potential poachers might be more wary.

[dana]

For some reason the ministry thinks hide condition is a reason to shut down the season on more than just bears. Why is it in some areas we have a summer closure on coyotes and wolves? In my area of Region 3 they opened up wolves to a no bag limit a few years ago in an effort to save the mountain caribou, yet they have a summer closure??? Now I understand with wolves the pups can be pretty small in that window of closure, but really, they are pretty damn small during the Aug 1 opener are they not? If you want to save one critter from extinction by opening up a no bag limit on their cheif predator, why would you protect that same predator for a month and a half every year??? And why are yotes closed as of Mar 31 in those same Mountain Caribou units. If a yote can hunt deer fawns and moose calves, don't ya think they could also eat caribou calves? Why are the seasons for black bears so different from one region to the other? Why does some close June 15 while others close June 30 and why do some open Aug 15 while others open Sept 1? Does the 15 days on each side of the season really make a difference when it comes to conservation? Are southern bears more prone to over harvest while compared to northern bears? Or is this just a 'hide condition' issue?

[Bear Chaser]

Dana you bring up a lot of good points. I agree there are a lot of inconsistencies in the way predator seasons are managed.

IIRC the province wide bag limit for bears was changed from 5 to 2 back in 1990. I think that was also the year that summer hunting was closed down although I'm not sure. It may have been earlier.
I believe the driving force for reducing the bag limit was to curb the number of bears being taken strictly for galls & paws. I think the government didn't actually outlaw bear parts sales until 1992. Meat removal wasn't implemented until 1993 to 1995. I guess before I go too much further I should say that I fully agreed on the bear parts ban then and still agree with it now.
All of these measures were brought into place to lower the number of bears being shot at least by legal means. The end result is no hunters taking bears during what is now the off season and fewer hunters taking bears during regular seasons. I don't know the numbers but I doubt that bear poulations have decreased in the meantime. I'd be interested to see how many bears were destroyed or relocated by CO's in 1990 and how many per year now.
Shoot, shovel and shutup is likely the way alot of ranchers and farmers are dealing with bears that hang around the yard. No closed season would probably help keep some of those people on the legal side of the fence and eliminate a lot of needless calls to CO's from people who don't want to break laws.

[bayou]

Bayou, The last bear I shot was 3 or 4 years ago I don't shoot them I just take pictures, unless I have a client and they are a sh$tty shot. The point of extending the season is to save taxpayers money with problem bears, turn a family camping trip into a hunting trip which can't be a bad thing.
My neighbout has lived here since 1934 and is 94 years old, he has never seen this amount of bears , infact in days past you might see a grizzly every second year now he says it is not uncommon to see 4 or five on one of his properties. There must be a problem bear statistic report somewhere for BC, Maybe Goat Guy knows where to look?

On CBC news today.
According to CO so far this year 163BB and 4 grizzly have been destroyed province wide and in most case the bears are attracted by garbage left out by residents. Its not the bears fault that its come into contact with people and losing its fear and getting habituated.
There is more but i cant type that much and dont know how to put up link.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

One thing they don't tell you is alot of times they will ask if you can deal with the problem yourself.
I lived in Enderby for awhile on the river right beside a sockeye spawning bed. You could not imagine the amount of bear. One day I came home and my landlord was there with a gun watching a sow with two cubs my portch dog had treed in the neighbours yard. To make a long story short the CO's told him to kill all three as they where already responding to 3 other bears that morning. He called the RCMP to get the their opinion and they to told him to do it. I am sure a lot of these are not put on paper.
I do agree urban areas can be bad for garbage and train bears the wrong way. If the bears where thinned out abit more these bears may not have ended up cruising suburbia looking for a meal.

[Gateholio]

In Whistler there has been a 2 decade movement to reduce the amount of bears killed. Measures have mostly been around garbage control and there are bear proof trash bins everywhere, but it doesn't stop the bears from coming into the neighborhoods or the actual town core, either. Bears will break right into house and break into cars. No garbage, but they can smell someones lunch they had in the car the day before and they smell the cookies on the counter. :)

[Bear Chaser]

Ditto on bears trying to break into houses.
One spring my old hunting partner & I treed a really pretty blond bear two mornings in a row not 400 yards from his house where there was always at least 5-6 hounds tied up. We let him walk both times I kick myself now as we were feeling a little too conservationistic. A week or two later the neighbor who lived a half mile away shot him for trying to break into the kitchen window to get at the Glade air freshener plugged in on the counter. Being a numbskull he had no idea what he had & hacked the head off when he skinned it with plans to try a home tanning kit on it.
A couple years later a lady I worked with had her husband shoot two bears in the same night trying to break into the kitchen window of their house in a semi rural area surrounded by houses and highways.
In neither instance were any of the bears starving or lacking for naturally occurring food.
Black bears are true opportunists and will take advantage every chance they get.