Region 7 Stone's Sheep Double Header

[kayjayess]

Close to a year of planning and preparation resulted in my partner Mike and I cutting our tags on two Northern BC Stone’s Sheep opening week. After a successful hunt in 2010 in Region 7 where Mike harvested a magnificent Grizz we decided to try our luck again on these elusive creatures. After several phone calls and discussions this past September with HBC’s resident Grizz expert Srupp, we decided on two weeks that would increase our odds of harvesting a monster coastal Grizz.

Mike and I (who work together) requested and received off the two weeks that Srupp had recommended. In due course the LEH applications were submitted and much to our chagrin we learned that we were unsuccessful. After a quick disappointed phone call to Mike, undeterred we decided that a fall hunt would be in order – but for what and when? Mike’s true passion is sheep and within seconds he suggested that we go for Stone’s Sheep. Having never hunted Sheep before I was keen on the hunt and Mike was super stoked wanting to put a giant twister on his wall next to his amazing Dall.

As fate would have it, unbeknownst to us both Mike and I had two weeks off (at the same time) the first two weeks of August. Mike had his annual Gold River fishing trip planned with the boys and I was supposed to go to Italy with my wife and kids. I knew I could get out of the Italy trip but Mike felt compelled to not let the boys down on the fishing trip. With a little coaxing Mike was making the call to see if he could get out of his previous commitment. Mission accomplished – Stone’s Sheep here we come!

Mike and I spent the winter preparing for the hunting both physically (training) as well as planning where we had the best chance of harvesting a legal ram. Gleaning HBC, reading various publications and PM/talking to many of the HBC members allowed us to come up with a game plan. Region 7 was it and we booked our fly in charter for July 30th thus allowing us a day and a half to spot and increase our chances of anchoring one opening morning.

July 29th arrived before we knew it and when my alarm went off at 3:20 AM that morning I was already awake. I was lucky if I managed 2 hours sleep with the anticipation of my first Stone’s Sheep hunt. Mike arrived 10 minutes earlier than planned at 3:35 and we left my house at 4:00 am as originally planned. On the 5:15 BC Ferry Mike and I sorted through our gear and poured over the maps once again trying to consolidate our game plan. Once on the Lower Mainland we started the 22-hour drive North bound with images of full curl rams on our mind.

The kilometers seemed to fly by fast and despite some fog and slow going through the night due to wildlife on the highway we reached the float base at 530 the following morning. The drive through the night was grueling but with Mike and I both used to shift work we were able to push through with out stopping to ensure we were ready to go for our early morning departure.

A sincere effort to catch a couple of hours of shuteye was fruitless with the anticipation of what lie ahead. Around 8 o’clock signs of life around the float base encouraged us inside to find out that despite all our planning, several parties had already flown into our carefully chosen lake. Mike and I had a quick huddle and resolved that we were about as lucky to harvest a sheep at the Walmart parking lot in our hometown than at that range with close to a dozen others combing it. After looking over topo maps an ad hoc plan was devised for a new lake. A quick check with the pilot and it was determined there was likely a lot less pressure in the new area we had selected.

The biggest concern for us was that our maps did not cover any of the new area we had decided upon. Some old maps were lying around the office for that area and I noticed a scanner and printer near by. We also had internet access so we had an opportunity to come up with some resources. Fortunately for us weather delays pushed our departure until later in the day and I spent several hours on the computer scanning, printing and cutting and pasting topo print outs off Google Maps. Mike spent quality time on the phone trying to find out as much information as possible about the new area. By the time we were set to depart we had a pretty respectable topographical map and an idea of where we may possibly find some sheep.

We were airborne by 1:30 PM and an hour and a half later we were unloading our gear wondering to ourselves how we ended up here. Four months of planning, talking to other hunters and gleaning over maps and we are not even hunting that area! Once on the ground we spent the better part of 1 ½ hours getting everything sorted and we commenced our 3-mile hike. Four and a half hours later we decided that was enough and set up our spike camp. It was raining and cool and having spent the last 40 hours without having seen a bed I was ready to rest. We agreed that 8 hours should be sufficient and after a quick Mountain House we were asleep by about 10 PM.

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Early the next morning we were up and eager to tackle the slopes in our new found valley. We carefully worked our way to a high vantage point and by mid day Mike had picked out a bachelor herd of 6 rams. They were over a mile away on the opposite side of the valley but the majestic curl of the Stone’s Sheep was unmistakable. We watched carefully considering our plan for the following morning – opening day.

As we sat spotting we noticed a peculiar colored rock at the base of the hillside the sheep were on. Closer inspection revealed a tent and two hunters tucked in the trees not more than a few hundred yards from the herd. Mike and I were demoralized and felt that they are more than likely going to spook them out of the valley and best-case scenario they were at a better vantage point than us for opening morning. We had elected to set up camp outside of the valley in order to avoid scaring any of the sheep but now we were confronted with other hunters in the same area.

We watched the herd until sunset carefully plotting our plan for opening morning. We resolved that the best plan of attack was for us to pick a spot about ¾ a mile further down the long valley from the other party. We felt that if they did manage a shot at the rams their escape route might take them past us (if they did not go up over the top). There was also the possibility that they will move during the night and we might have a shot at them.

The next morning we had our alarm set for 2:30 am and were on the trail by 3:00. A 3 ½ mile forced march on a game trail we had never been on in the middle of the night was interesting. We both had our Petzl headlamps on bright for the first hour but as we neared the valley we went to red and eventually with some ambient light we could make our way with out any help. We arrived at the base of the hill a bit later than anticipated as a result of some thick brush and stream crossings but nonetheless we were there before first light. We stopped in some heavy brush assessed the situation and realized there was some open terrain and then some additional cover further up the mountain. A shot from where we were would be challenging as we were a considerable way down the hill plus a stalk would be impossible from that vantage point. We elected to cross the open terrain and took cover in some heavy brush partially up the mountain.

As the sun started to reveal itself Mike noticed a ram bedded about 180 yards directly in front of us up the mountain. As further light shed all six rams came into view bedded within shooting range. Two or three of them were locked onto us as Mike peered through the Vortex Nomad assessing the legality of the herd members. I stayed low in the heavy cover looking on through my Zeiss Conquests remaining motionless wary that our success was contingent on it. As I lay watching these magnificent creatures I witness the impact of a single shot followed immediately by the loud report of a rifle. Seconds later a second ram falls with the incredible report of a rifle piercing the crisp morning air.

The other party in a matter of seconds had filled their tags and Mike and I sat in awe as the remaining four rams mulled around in confusion. The two other hunters were at a higher vantage point further up the valley and had obviously spotted the rams at first light as well and stalked toward our location. After a few minutes the two hunters wandered down to claim their prize as Mike and I assessed the remaining rams. The largest of the group skylined himself at 200 yards and Mike and I both further considered the ram. Confident he was legal, Mike leaned over his Karrimor daypack and the 225 Federal grains broke the morning silence once again. The Browning 338 X-bolt anchored its second trophy in two years bringing the flared out old Stone’s Sheep to the ground.

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[kayjayess]

Within 30 minutes of legal light 3 Stone’s Sheep had been harvested in the valley and Mike had cut his tag on a magnificent trophy. Mike and I had suspected that one of the remaining three rams were legal but were unable to confirm it. We spent the remainder of the morning enjoying the moment, taking several photographs, followed by the hard work of processing the animal. By mid day Mike had the horns and cape loaded in his daypack and my Eberlestock was loaded with Sheep meat. The hike back up the valley was arduous with the extra weight but an incredible one knowing that we were half way toward our goal of anchoring two Northern BC Stone’s Sheep.

The following day we exhausted the various remaining options for Sheep in the area we were in and were confident that we were not missing anything (well much anyway). Day three we loaded our packs and headed back to base with Mike’s ram. The 3-mile hike with the ram seemed like 6 although it went rather quick. By noon we had the Sheep unloaded back at the lake and were rejigging our packs as we were setting out in another direction. By early afternoon we had enough food packed for 8 days and were heading out in pursuit of the second half of our Stone’s double-header.

With the extra weight the packs were pushing 80 pounds and the going was slow. Our goal was to set up camp 6 miles from the lake that evening. This was hampered by undulating terrain and multiple stream crossings – in conjunction with cumulative fatigue. At 8 PM that night Mike turned to me and said, “Have you had enough?” We had already made 8 stream crossings and were facing another deep one. We had covered 5 ½ of the 6 miles and I was content with the site that we were considering to camp at.

After a grueling day, within seconds of laying my head to rest I was asleep. 8 hours later we were up and preparing for another day in the mountains. We ended going straight up from camp and after surveying the area East of our spike we concurred that there was not much for Sheep. We did run into 3 other hunters as we made our way down the east side of the valley. Mike and I decided to turn around and spend our time in another area. The day passed without seeing a single sheep.

That evening the rain began and it poured. The freeze-dried was consumed in the tent that evening and I fully expected that tomorrow would be a write off. I awoke to the silence of no rain the morning of the 5th and a quick glance outside confirmed that yes we could hunt. We geared up hoping that today would be the day.

Since the East side of the valley was unproductive we decided to head West. We followed a creek bed for two miles crossing 7 times. After a couple of miles we decided that our best bet was to acquire some elevation, so up we went. As we topped out, we dropped our packs and crawled over the ridge doing our best to stay covered. Mike went ahead of me and I followed closely. We belly crawled over the ridge and found a concealed crevice that sheltered us from most of the surrounding area.

As I was glassing the valley, Mike looked intensely at me saying, “There is a monster ram right here. I think he is legal.” Now I am not sure about you but that kind of statement caught my attention. I slowly crawled up to the apex of the hill beside Mike and at 100 yards stood a beautiful Stone’s Sheep. He was locked onto both of us and I was immediately aware that my movements at that moment were crucial to my success. My first premonition was, of course he is legal, and as I raised my scope it was glaringly obvious that he was.

There was a jagged crevice that we had taken cover on before and Mike astutely told me to lay my rifle in the saddle and shoot him. I quickly replied that it would be impossible to get a solid shot off from that location. At that point the magnificent Stone’s Sheep bed down still locked intently on us. I elected to back down the knoll and acquire a solid vantage point. As I retracted I took a moment to think about where my greatest percentage position would be. Mike looked my squarely in the eye and said in a nudging tone, “Bro, you need to make your move now.”

I slowly belly crawled up the center of the knoll discreetly pulling my rifle toward me. As I crested out I pulled the rifle up into a position in front of my shoulder. I rolled it upright bringing the scope to my eye. I looked around and could see that the shooting lane would still impact the ground so I placed my left hand under the stock making a tight fist creating a temporary rest raising the rifle two inches off the ground. As I centered my eye to the scope I switched off the safety and the ram met the reticle of my Leupold VX-III 50 mm scope. As I touched off the trigger the report of the Browning X-Bolt 300 Winchester Magnum broke the mid day calm. The 150-grain Hornandy SST anchored the ram in his bed and his head promptly dropped, tell tale evidence that he was not going anywhere.

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The elation of a double header Stone’s Sheep swiftly over took Mike and I. As we walked up to the ram we could not contain the excitement and we spent the next hour savoring the fruits of our labor. After snapping off an inane amount of photos the hard work commenced as we processed the animal. The extra weight in our daypacks as we meandered back to spike was a firm reminder of the incredible hunt we had just experienced.

The following day we packed up and commenced the 5-½ mile trek back to the lake. This time we were loaded with food for 6 more days and a harvested Stone’s ram. The uphill hike back to base was a long journey but so rewarding knowing what we had in our packs.





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In closing, I want to thank first and foremost my partner Mike who made harvesting my first Stone’s Sheep a reality. Without his wisdom, experience and constant encouragement I would not have been successful. I particularly want to thank lange1212 for all of his guidance and assistance. There is no question without your help we would not have accomplished our goal of shooting two legal rams. I also want to thank Srupp, Curly top, DanBallance, Shade Tree, Bridger, Orangethunder, and BCRams. Each one of you was instrumental in making this trip a success and I thank you for it.

[Ruger4]

Awesome jobs guys , big congrats to you

[Rackmastr]

Too awesome man.......I've gotta read this thread at work as I'm running out the door, but another big Congrats!

[David Heitsman]

Great curl on one and wide flare on the other. Many congrats to you two. Didn't read the post's yet but the pics are fantastic. Well done. Heading up in two weeks myself for sheep and griz so hope to be so fortunate.

[kootenayslam]

Great job & great writeup

[Brambles]

nice work, I especially like that second ram, beauty.. Congrats

[Gateholio]

Congrats, and be sure to enter the HBC Big Game contest! :)

[whitetailsheds]

Awesome hunt.....congrats boys! Thanks for posting!

[4 point]

Without a doubt this is one of the best written sheep hunt stories I have ever read on HBC. The photos are great as well. You guys had one hell of a hunt. You made the best out of the diffuclties you faced to make the trip successful. Well done guys.

[bigwhiteys]

I like the big, mature one. Nice Ram.

Carl

[Weatherby Fan]

Awesome Rams,story and pictures,thanks for sharing.
WF

[cavebear]

congrats on two amazing animals.

[rifleman]

Awesome story. What a great ram you harvested. Sounds like a perfect trip. Way to adapt & find another place to hunt. After shooting the flared ram did you talk with the other hunters? I wonder if they are HBC members?

[d6dan]

Great story and Nice Rams boys!. Congrats on your successful Sheep hunt. Brings back memories..

[kennyj]

Great story and Rams! Way to stay flexible and get er done.
kenny

[srupp]

awesome job GENTLEMEN way to git er done...

cheers

Srupp

[MIL720]

Outstanding hunt. A great story to tell for years to come...Congrats

[hunter1947]

Fantastic story as for the two rams ,I really like that second ram he is a honker of a ram ,congrats to the two of you http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.png http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon6.png...

[coglark]

Good read, better pics, even better rams! Well done.

[kitnayakwa77]

that second ram is a beauty! good job, can't wait until I head out later in the season.

[Fireball129]

Great job guys,those are some real beauties you harvested.Good story and pictures.

[jml11]

Great write up (nice to see someone spell Stone's Sheep right for once :wink:) and you managed to find a fantastic ram. Lots of doubles coming out of the mountains this year.

[MB_Boy]

Absolutely awesome guys and many, many congrats!!! 8-)

Great story and very, very well written.....felt like I was right there! :-D

[Buck]

Great hunt !!!just what i need to keep me motivated we leave in 2 weeks.

[SHAKER]

Good read and nice Rams guy! Nice to have a little lunch reading a sucessful sheep story. Thanks

[sheepaholic]

congrats on the double header how heavy were your packs with 2 sheep and all your gear

[echo77]

awesome sheep boys congrats !!!

[pg83]

Wonderful story and fantastic pics to go with it. Congrats on a couple of great rams!

[Krico]

Cool story, well written, nice rams, great pics - what more could site members ask for!

[guest]

RIGHT ON !

Glad it worked out for you Boyz !

Hard work and homework brought you your rams, nothing else. Good on Ya and ........

Congrats !

CT

[LeverActionJunkie]

Good on ya boys Congratulations and thanks for sharing!

[moose2]

Great looking rams and great story i was wondering if you have green scored yours yet, if not did you know the length and base measurements.
Thanks Mike

[BlacktailStalker]

Wow not one but two and the first year, congrats.

[Duk Dog]

Right on guys, congrats! My dream hunt right there.

[kayjayess]

This afternoon I had a B & C official scorer rough him at 162 3/8 with the left being 40 3/8 and right being 39 5/8. He figured him at 12 years old.

Packing out we estimated our packs at about 110 each.

And thanks for the congrats.

[gbear]

Congrats on your success! Great stuff

[moose2]

Thanks for posting the score congratulations on passing the 40' mark. That is definately one of my stone hunting goals.
Mike

[TRIPALM]

IMOut camping and found this ,good to see fly boy know lets get a big blacktail

[ques deer]

great job guys just like pros big congratulations

[Ovis17]

Big congrats!!!!! Both nice of course, but that second one is a real pretty boy.

[180grainer]

nice sheep, good job.

[yugo111]

beautiful rams boys good job

[yama49]

wow nice rams, and great story of your adventure congrats

[TSW]

Man, way to make it happen and alter plans for success! Great story and great rams--I can see how that ram was a "no brainer"! That thing is massive!!! Thanks for a great story-I lived vicariously for a few minutes there :).

[spear]

AWESOME! This makes counting down the 354 days not as hard, or maybe harder. thanks for posting

[Mik]

Awesome, great that a plan can be put together on such short notice. Thanks for the well written story and pics,congrats on both rams.

[fusion]

Fantastic write up, great read & two awesome rams!!! Congrats.

[kwasky]

Awsome trip! I must say that second sheep is a BEUTY. way to go

[Rubberfist]

Very nice rams and thanks for sharing a great story and excellent pictures!

[willy442]

First off congratulations on one very nice Ram. Rams off that caliber are what sheep hunting is all about and you can enjoy that feeling of pride and accomplishment every time you look at him on your wall.

Now to the question of the second Ram. Once looking at and comparing these rams. How could you pull the trigger on an immature ram like this and feel the same pride and accomplishment as the big ram? I suggest you can't, so why pull the trigger. Excuses like it was my first ram or I didn't know any better just don't cut it in a world where it is the responsibility of the hunter to know what he is shooting.

The thing that really appauls me is the fact of the number of people on this site giving congratulations. Sheep hunters are congratulating one ram, greenhorns are congratulating both. It indicates to me that we still have a huge membership on here that should really not be sheep hunting. It is loud and clear that those thinking these are two great rams, would go out in the mountains, shoot comparible sheep and do nothing for the conservation of this great spiecies.

Then to end my beef!
It really leaves the question of credibility for this site as one of hunters and conservationists, when we have moderators jumping in and congratulating people. When obviously they too have no idea what they are looking at. I would say the slogan of the week is (be sure to enter it in our HBC contest).

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

First off congratulations on one very nice Ram. Rams off that caliber are what sheep hunting is all about and you can enjoy that feeling of pride and accomplishment every time you look at him on your wall.

Now to the question of the second Ram. Once looking at and comparing these rams. How could you pull the trigger on an immature ram like this and feel the same pride and accomplishment as the big ram? I suggest you can't, so why pull the trigger. Excuses like it was my first ram or I didn't know any better just don't cut it in a world where it is the responsibility of the hunter to know what he is shooting.

The thing that really appauls me is the fact of the number of people on this site giving congratulations. Sheep hunters are congratulating one ram, greenhorns are congratulating both. It indicates to me that we still have a huge membership on here that should really not be sheep hunting. It is loud and clear that those thinking these are two great rams, would go out in the mountains, shoot comparible sheep and do nothing for the conservation of this great spiecies.

Then to end my beef!
It really leaves the question of credibility for this site as one of hunters and conservationists, when we have moderators jumping in and congratulating people. When obviously they too have no idea what they are looking at. I would say the slogan of the week is (be sure to enter it in our HBC contest).

i would have to say X2 would have never pulled the trigger on the dink.....

[BillyBull]

Outstanding job guys, great write up .... even with all the other hunters you managed the double header.

[guest]

And here we go AGAIN !

If he has been and inspected .... and Passed .... then who's business is it of any ones !

Some people should put there fingers in there pockets rather then on the key board.

Yes I agree, it's not the caliber of the other Ram and I waited my self for one that I did not have to question.

But for some on here to be above the Law blows me away ..........if it's legal it's legal, as said ........ he we go again !

CT

[ElectricDyck]

I don't get it? What's the big deal? Is it a conservation concern shooting a ram that's younger but legal? If so why is it legal, if not what's the problem? Is it not cool enough for some?

Thanks for sharing the story and the pics.

[proguide66]

i would have to say X2 would have never pulled the trigger on the dink.....

Theres another way for the #trophyminded guys to look at small ram harvest.- good to get those genetics outta the herd- Right Billy.

[willy442]

Theres another way for the #trophyminded guys to look at small ram harvest.- good to get those genetics outta the herd- Right Billy.

Yes; I agree, although I am sure that was not in the shooters mind. The big issue is with others looking at this type of ram on here and thinking it's OK to shoot this class of ram.

[willy442]

And here we go AGAIN !

If he has been and inspected .... and Passed .... then who's business is it of any ones !

Some people should put there fingers in there pockets rather then on the key board.

Yes I agree, it's not the caliber of the other Ram and I waited my self for one that I did not have to question.

But for some on here to be above the Law blows me away ..........if it's legal it's legal, as said ........ he we go again !

CT

Yes guy's like you and electricDyck will never get it. You're to hung up on killing something to be able to tutor or assist a new sheep hunter. Many of these rams should not be passing compulsary inspection and they are due to a flawed system, politics and no money. Do you feel confident our sheep are properly being harvested. I'm damn sure not and there is nothing high and mighty about it.

[ElectricDyck]

I'm just trying to understand this, so Willy you think that harvesting younger full curl rams is unsustainable?

[kootenayslam]

"#6. There is to be no frowning upon a member for the method of hunting used, or the sex, age of the animal. If it's legal then it's legal no if, and, or, but!"

Willy 442 .......above is a quote directly out of the forum rules,

READ IT & try to be less of a Dick.

[moosinaround]

"#6. There is to be no frowning upon a member for the method of hunting used, or the sex, age of the animal. If it's legal then it's legal no if, and, or, but!"

Willy 442 .......above is a quote directly out of the forum rules,

READ IT & try to be less of a Dick.
Dick is a bad word, please use penis!;)

[guest]

Aren't you some kind of hero Willy, what a goof, this is one of those Rams that DOES NOT DROP by the jaw and never will, he looks legal and likely is, so what if he's 5, 6 or 14 years old. It's deemed legal by the regs and Dude shot it. It's Dudes 1st Ram and makes the grade, he may think twice next time, but BUT BUT he makes the legal description ! He's past the NOSE ! That makes the grade ! Get off your hi horse you J ___ A __ !

CT

[Ambush]

"#6. There is to be no frowning upon a member for the method of hunting used, or the sex, age of the animal. If it's legal then it's legal no if, and, or, but!"

So what if the animal [in this case, sheep] IS clearly illegal, BUT has somehow passed inspection. It happened before on here.
What then is the proper procedure?

I'm not talking about "dinks", but illegal.

This should maybe be started as a new thread?? If so, please delete.

[Gateholio]

Unfortunately, willy will never understand that the fastest way to get someone to ignore your message is to go on attack mode.

Constructive critisism is usually welcomed, andistened to, while aggresive attacks usually make people ignore any valid message. A hostile attitude usually breeds hostilty and the message is lost.

This is pretty basic stuff, even willy should be able to grasp the concept

[Steeleco]

Never fails, somebody has a successful and legal hunt and somebody else has to rain on their parade. Like the old saying goes, "if you've nothing nice to say......."

[Deaddog]

perhaps we can just post up last years thread with Willy spouting the same "the sky is falling" rhetoric.....the story get's somewhat old.....

[gerrygoat]

I rarely read sheep threads anymore because of the b.s. from the elite hunters, you know the ones that are so much better than the rest of us mere mortals, HBC would be much better without them can't imagine why they are still on here. If I ever shoot another ram I doubt it will get posted on here.

[blackbart]

Any chance you can share the age that the CI came up with. I am curious about the close rings below the eye in one of your photos. They don't match the normal growth that one would expect.

BTW - very purdy ram. Well done. Going out on a limb here (and not meaning to detract from your beauty ram), but your partner that had shot a ram previously may have had some regrets when you got yours??

[Jim Prawn]

Leaving in two weks for our first Stone's sheep hunt, can only hope to be so fortunate! Thanks to you I won't be getting much sleep till after the first days hike now!!
JP

[GoatGuy]

First off congratulations on one very nice Ram. Rams off that caliber are what sheep hunting is all about and you can enjoy that feeling of pride and accomplishment every time you look at him on your wall.

Now to the question of the second Ram. Once looking at and comparing these rams. How could you pull the trigger on an immature ram like this and feel the same pride and accomplishment as the big ram? I suggest you can't, so why pull the trigger. Excuses like it was my first ram or I didn't know any better just don't cut it in a world where it is the responsibility of the hunter to know what he is shooting.

The thing that really appauls me is the fact of the number of people on this site giving congratulations. Sheep hunters are congratulating one ram, greenhorns are congratulating both. It indicates to me that we still have a huge membership on here that should really not be sheep hunting. It is loud and clear that those thinking these are two great rams, would go out in the mountains, shoot comparible sheep and do nothing for the conservation of this great spiecies.

Then to end my beef!
It really leaves the question of credibility for this site as one of hunters and conservationists, when we have moderators jumping in and congratulating people. When obviously they too have no idea what they are looking at. I would say the slogan of the week is (be sure to enter it in our HBC contest).

This would be a credible comment if the poster:


Had never guided an illegal ram
Had never guided a 6 or 7 year old 'immature' ram
Didn't always complain about hunters going to the same spots and then sent people into those same spots
Didn't complain about conservation concerns in areas close to the highway and the send people into those same spots
Complain that these areas should be LEH and then send people into those same spots

Credibility.... eh.

[Gateholio]

It really leaves the question of credibility for this site as one of hunters and conservationists, when we have moderators jumping in and congratulating people. When obviously they too have no idea what they are looking at. I would say the slogan of the week is (be sure to enter it in our HBC contest).

Willy, I always congratulate successful hunters when they take a LEGAL animal and I invite them to enter the HBC contest. The HBC contest is about PARTICIPATION IN HUNTING, as it is a LOTTERY on who wins. It's not about who shot the biggest animal. After all, the hunter doesn't grow the horns...

I believe encouraging participation is far more important than excluding hunters due to inches that they haven't grown themselves....

[Rubberfist]

First off congratulations on one very nice Ram. Rams off that caliber are what sheep hunting is all about and you can enjoy that feeling of pride and accomplishment every time you look at him on your wall.

Now to the question of the second Ram. Once looking at and comparing these rams. How could you pull the trigger on an immature ram like this and feel the same pride and accomplishment as the big ram? I suggest you can't, so why pull the trigger. Excuses like it was my first ram or I didn't know any better just don't cut it in a world where it is the responsibility of the hunter to know what he is shooting.

The thing that really appauls me is the fact of the number of people on this site giving congratulations. Sheep hunters are congratulating one ram, greenhorns are congratulating both. It indicates to me that we still have a huge membership on here that should really not be sheep hunting. It is loud and clear that those thinking these are two great rams, would go out in the mountains, shoot comparible sheep and do nothing for the conservation of this great spiecies.

Then to end my beef!
It really leaves the question of credibility for this site as one of hunters and conservationists, when we have moderators jumping in and congratulating people. When obviously they too have no idea what they are looking at. I would say the slogan of the week is (be sure to enter it in our HBC contest).

This is Canada, so thankfully you are entitled to your opinion. However it is only your opinion, and while you are free to express it, others are likewise free to disagree with it.

If the ram in question is not legal, then you may have a case and a soapbox to stand on. However if the ram is legal, then you are still entitled to your opinion, however you are really doing more to diminish your own status, than that of the hunter.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, in the words of George Carlin...why don't you just go outside and play hide and go _ _ _ _ yourself.

[wiggy]

So the war continues; why do you hunt sheep? To kill a legal ram or to kill a trophy or is any legal ram considered a true trophy; is the success of the hunt based on killing a animal? Each to his own and congrats to both of you; remember they aint gonna get big if you kill em when their young. 32 nd year sheep hunting and already juiced for October; now if i can only find that spot in my dream

[Gateholio]

So what if the animal [in this case, sheep] IS clearly illegal, BUT has somehow passed inspection. It happened before on here.
What then is the proper procedure?

I'm not talking about "dinks", but illegal.

This should maybe be started as a new thread?? If so, please delete.


This is the proper procedure:


http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?55868-Illegal-rams-nanny-goats-etc....


In the future, if someone has a concern with a ram being illegal, please report it to the CO's rather than derail someone's thread. A ram that has been CI'd and passed is deemed legal at that time, and therefore falls under HBC rule.


#6. There is to be no frowning upon a member for the method of hunting used, or the sex, age of the animal. If it's legal then it's legal no if, and, or, but!

This also applies to the harvest of Nanny goats, calf moose, spike/fork moose, antlerless deer or elk or anything else that you might not agree with but is legal at this time. If you wish to discuss the harvest of nannies or illegal rams, etc...please start your own thread discussing it, and leave other peoples threads and pictures out of it.

The CO's, the MOE and the CI's (and even the CI Grand Pooba) are in charge of hands on determination of legality of a harvested animal- Not anyone on HBC looking at pictures. If a ram is deemed illegal on initial/ further inspection, feel free to discuss.

This should not impact the "educational" aspect of judging rams, billy/nanny identification or any educational aspect. You may still post pictures on your own "educational" thread of live rams and goats for educational purposes, or seized rams that have been deemed illegal.

[rollingrock]

I've never harvested a sheep. But I have a lot of respect for those who pack up and get it done with their own efforts. Congrats guys!

[35 Whelen]

Outstanding story and pictures. Very tastefully done. Sheep have always been on my bucket list, but the years have ticked away and the knee fracture have likely ended that dream

Congratulations to you both; trophies of a lifetime.

[16ga]

It's not about who shot the biggest animal. After all, the hunter doesn't grow to horns...

I believe encouraging participation is far more important than excluding hunters due to inches that they haven't grown themselves....

Thank you, I think this is the best comment I have read on here for awhile and couldn't agree more.

Congratulations on a successful sheep hunt, good job.

[willy442]

Gatehouse: Nothing wrong with promoting participaction. There is a problem with education on this site when it comes to conservation of some of our animals, especially sheep. That is my issue with these dink rams, also there are again issues with illegal sheep being harvested this year. Through supporting the harvest of these small borderline rams, we will eventually put ourselves in a position of more restriction. Too bad that through resident greed and bad decision making of a few, everyone will pay. It is not a matter of calling those out that shoot dinks, it is more a case of pointing out the dinks so others can learn and do not make the same mistake.

Goat Guy: Yet again you are spouting off about something of which you have no knowledge. I still find it appauling that someone with your education and status in the BCWF, can be so one dimensional. You have no idea what I have or haven't done. On another note, I do help new hunters both with places to hunt and try to educate them on field judging etc. What have you ever done besides work with second rate outfitters and cut and paste others work to make yourself look like a hero. In actual fact, you are not even close to aquiring the knowledge of long time guides like myself.

In closing Gate House you can stick this site and your moderating, where the sun don't shine. Goat Guy you can do the same with your garbage.

[srupp]

Willie442 and BC Rams certainly are two of the most knowledgeable sheep Hunter's, experts I know.. And I admire and respect their opinions.. And I appreciate the difficulty and the difference between trying to educate and encourage responsible harvest of legal game, in this case stone sheep. And it can be difficult to educate and in the process not offend at least one person.. I have seen many grizzly bears posted and at times the immature ones that do constitute a legal animal but not a mature animal... And on the rare occasion bears that simply should not have been harvested.... I too find it difficult to comment, educate and not offend..

This site should be one where everyone is able to come and learn, participate ,ask questions and share the successes of their hunts without the fear of ridicule or the demeaning comments regarding their harvest.

I have experienced very positive replies on various animals that I've harvested or participated in the hunt or merely went along to help.. I also have been on the negative where folks have accused me of lying.. That I did indeed did not get a sheep...HELL I even had folks look at Tim's picture of a 900 pound grizzly... That will go in the top 50 of the all-time Boone and Crockett world book.. And make comments that it was Photoshop.. There are all kinds that frequently these sites.

I have read all the stories about this year's stone sheep Hunter's success and I am pleased with each and every hunters willingness to not only go through the challenges of stone sheep hunt... The costs the demands and the efforts but to come back and post to this site stories and photos of their success... Even knowing that in the past certain individuals have called them out, made rude and unnecessary statements.... And perhaps even went to greater lengths to prove they knew more than even the inspectors..

At least three of these stone sheep this year in my opinion are absolutely amazing.. However what is even more pertinent they are all legal... And I congratulate the hunters or how I wish I could've been on the hills this year..

Yes we must educate.. And those of us on this site that have the decades of experience, the knowledge gained from being around trophy sheep, bears, elk or whatever species must pass his knowledge on in a way that is helpful and not hurtful and respects the men and women that are put in the effort the time and the money and have made the decision..their decision.. To pull the trigger and harvest their trophy...

The biologists, and regulations have determined what is legal... And that in itself is not a small matter... To harvest a legal animal, in fair chase, is something to be proud of... And not every sheep can be the Chadwick ram.. A legal ram is a trophy in itself... There will always be a legal animal, then there will be an above-average animal and then there will be some truly amazing above-average specimens...

I have seen hundreds of stone sheep in the last 17 years... Some were obviously immature, some were borderline others may be just above... And I choose.. It was my decision not to shoot.. And resulted in a lot of ridicule.. When the chance came and I decided to harvest a ram, again it was my decision... And I still don't know what scores, never did have it scored.... Because that never was the object... I want to harvest a ram it was a trophy in my mind... And I could be proud of it on the wall to remind me as I get older of past accomplishments.. I still am ecstatic of what Scott and Kevin and I accomplished and I always will be... Same goes for all the other animals in my trophy room... We all make personal choices, and have to live by those personal choices... And this is a wonderful site to come and ask questions, gain experience from some immensely talented, experienced and knowledgeable hunters... We are blessed to have that knowledge here, on almost every and any animal and type of hunting... We just have to remind ourselves to educate, and to pass our knowledge on in a manner that is helpful, nonjudgmental... And leaves those that asked the questions and come here to learn willing to risk sharing their questions, their encounters their photos at their trophies


We can never pass on our knowledge and experience to those that are too scared, embarrassed or unwilling to chance ridicule and harsh criticism by those"in the know"because not every Hunter here has the decades of experience.. We must go back to when we shot our first sheep, deer, moose or whatever and realized back then we didn't know it all.... And our knowledge truly is a result of years of experience success and even our failures..

I certainly hope that all animals that are harvested are shared, that those with questions will ask.. And no one will ever be afraid to post a photo... Ask a question... Pass on some knowledge..

That is what truly makes the site exceptional..... It makes me proud to ask questions, improve my knowledge and to share whatever it is I am asked and it is in my knowledge..

Thank you all

Cheers

Steven

[6 K]

Very nice pair.
Both legal and in the end that IS ALL that matters. Those who would have let any particular ram walk off to get bigger really don't do themselves any credit by pissing on those who chose to harvest a legal animal.
You both put in effort and got rewarded.
I will admit though I dream of a ram with the shape, color, weight and length of yours.
Big congrats, maybe I could get a look at the mount sometime when I am down visiting my parents in Chemainus.

[Mountain Man]

Gatehouse: Nothing wrong with promoting participaction. There is a problem with education on this site when it comes to conservation of some of our animals, especially sheep. That is my issue with these dink rams, also there are again issues with illegal sheep being harvested this year. Through supporting the harvest of these small borderline rams, we will eventually put ourselves in a position of more restriction. Too bad that through resident greed and bad decision making of a few, everyone will pay. It is not a matter of calling those out that shoot dinks, it is more a case of pointing out the dinks so others can learn and do not make the same mistake.

Goat Guy: Yet again you are spouting off about something of which you have no knowledge. I still find it appauling that someone with your education and status in the BCWF, can be so one dimensional. You have no idea what I have or haven't done. On another note, I do help new hunters both with places to hunt and try to educate them on field judging etc. What have you ever done besides work with second rate outfitters and cut and paste others work to make yourself look like a hero. In actual fact, you are not even close to aquiring the knowledge of long time guides like myself.

In closing Gate House you can stick this site and your moderating, where the sun don't shine. Goat Guy you can do the same with your garbage.

If its legal is it a mistake ??

Is this your opinion on all big game ? Or just sheep ?

If say a young jr hunter goes out with his father and legally kills a spike whitetail buck would you congradulate them and then turn around and make the poor kid cry by suggesting he should have held out for a more mature animal ?

Opinions are like assholes !!! We all have one !!!

[pg83]

Thank you Steven for your very well though-out and written response to the theatrics in this thread.

[Bear Chaser]

Thank you Steven for your very well though-out and written response to the theatrics in this thread.

X2. SRupp's response was bang on.

Congratulations to both hunters on well earned rams.
You guys demonstrated very well that being a successful hunter often demands flexibility and the willingness to adapt to conditions in the field throughout the hunt.

[Fishhound]

Steven, that was a very well written post, it isn't very often that we (HBC members) have an opportunity to read a post so well thought out.

To the members that find fault with the size of the animals, I would suggest that the members on HBC create a site on here with pictures that clearly show what a, borderline, average, and above average animal looks like to give the other hunters something to go by instead of your criticism.

I think that with the amount of planning and work involved in harvesting a Legal Ram as above, is an accomplishment to be proud of.

[Rattler]

Great story and beauty rams, especially that second one...

Thumbs up to both of you....

[Gateholio]

When you look at Srupps post on educating hunters, and compare it to willys tirade, it becomes astonishingly apparent that Mr Ripp understands how to get a message across and have a positive impact on new hunters, and that willy really just wants to berate and belittle people for not shooting a ram that is up to his personal standards.

I used to (want to) believe willy wanted to help, even if he was a bit abrasive, but I can't even pretend to believe that anymore. I know Willy likes to spend lots of time on HBC, even though he rarely posts,but it's clear he doesn't have any respect for HBC or anyone that tries to help run HBC. Posts like this just reinforce that:


G
In closing Gate House you can stick this site and your moderating, where the sun don't shine. .

I'm sick of you running down guys for shooting legal animals and sick of your attitude, so it's time for you to go. Stick that wherever you want to. Bye Willy.

[TheProvider]

Nice sheep and great story

[srupp]

wow..what a day this has proved to be....we are 10,500 plus "memebers" of the hunting comunity...a rapidly decreasing comunity ...as school teachers subtly and sometimes not so subtle methods and words coax children against hunting and 'killing" the older hunters are becoming fewer in the field as time takes its toll on us all....

teens seem more concerned with computer games and texting and far fewer are interested in hunting and the skills involved in living amongst nature...while the Suzukies of the world preach their views that alll animals must be respected and that means leaving them all live...condemming hunting..not realizing the value in these time honored sklills of survival..and that doing so would have serious consequences for the very species they cry out to 'defend"

As hunters we must pass on the knowlege and skills we have taken our entire lives to aquire..non was born a hunter..it was something we all learned.. that was passed down from others skilled in this passion...

It is incredibly important to teach... and share..to educate and nurture those that have choosen this far from popular sport...that we all learned from a myriad of hunters and outdoorsmen and women that have come and gone on before us..

When i have someone ask about grizzly hunting..it is important the where and the whens... but also to share what constitutes a adult representative of the coastal grizzly or interior grizzly bear..by posture, color, coat , attitude, and even its walk...the size of its head, its shape and even where the ears are located..the size of its forarms ,the 'swagger" how to get a estimate of its length by the number of "heads" along its body...so that the subadults are not harvested...and that the hunter can not be surprised..with ground shrinkage and an animal has lost its life needlessly and wont be utilized in a rug or full mount..

the same is true of all big game animals...we ultimatley learn not just by hearing but by doing...my first California bighorn sheep.. had a tight shallow curl..that although legal..and would make BC "book" it was not particularly monsterous..and at the time I thought it HUGE...but through more experienced sheep hunters and my own growth in knowlege through many many other sheep hunters..in person and in written word..my standards and ideas evolved...HOWEVER I STILL admire that ram...and the effort to legally harvest him by myself without horses or guides or even a hunting partner..and I even managed to correctly identify him as a legal ram..we all must start this journey somewhere....my next Cali was vastley bigger in every way..but in no way diminishes my first harvest..


When i see good guys like Steve Dana proudly displaying his childrens latest harvest big wide grins.... I admire his ability to gently lead and teach his children a bit at a time..adding to their confidence and abilities while the knowlege grows with their years...

Or guys like Scott and his knowlege of stone sheep...or Doug and his immense knowlege of cougars...and his willingness to answer whatever question put to him..

We have one of the finest opportunities to help these new hunters..with 10,500 members and countless lurkers we have the skills and the knowlege to answer any question asked...from boat motor questions to dog health..and any big game species represented here or accross Canada..

But to do that we must find a way to pass on that information..on the one hand we must be willing to reach out and share our common knowlege with anyone that askes..the question might seem frivilous or been answered many times before but it isnt to the ones who asks....

This sight does a very good job of keeping these 10,500 faceless individuals from adding to the daily injuries heaped on the hunting fraternity from society and those who would choose to end it...

How can I help?? How can I encourage..and educate..

cheers

Steven

[35 Whelen]

Well said Steven

[325]

Great rams! I'm happy you guys had a successful hunt. It's unfortunate that the sheep gurus can't keep themselves from chastising those that shoot (barely) legal rams. My partner and I just returned from our sheep hunt and both harvested great rams. I was going to post the story and pics, but after reading this thread, have decided against it.

Perhaps there should be a seperate section on this forum reserved for elitist sheep hunters, where they can exchange stories of their record-book rams?? Just a thought.

[Gateholio]

Great rams! I'm happy you guys had a successful hunt. It's unfortunate that the sheep gurus can't keep themselves from chastising those that shoot (barely) legal rams. My partner and I just returned from our sheep hunt and both harvested great rams. I was going to post the story and pics, but after reading this thread, have decided against it.

This was part of the decision to ban willy. I started hearing about people scared to post stuff specifically because of him. Especially some young guys that got their first ram but didn't want to risk grief from willy



Perhaps there should be a seperate section on this forum reserved for elitist sheep hunters, where they can exchange stories of their record-book rams?? Just a thought.


There is a separate place, it's called the BAN list. :)

[moose2]

Good choice Gatehouse a legal ram is a great accomplishment whether it is 36' or 46' and no one should feel ashamed or intimidated to to post their stories and pictures on this site. I really enjoy these threads and it would be unfortinate to have a very opinionated member changing the minds on those who are thinking of posting. If you see this 325 I hope you will reconsider posting I would love to see your rams and hear the story.
Thanks Mike

[Wild Images]

Back to the main thread, nicely done on the double
So you hooked on sheep now ?

[kayjayess]

LOL. I have had numerous emails and pm's from guys saying that I should be proud, etc of the rams we harvested. I/we are. I have also had three people tell me that they will NEVER post pictures of the rams they shoot for fear of the Willy442 syndrome.

Someone posted/asked if my buddy had any regrets regarding the ram he harvested. The answer is NO. My buddy has hunted sheep for over 10 years and knows what a big ram is. The fact of the matter is he knew exactly what he was pulling the trigger on. We watched this ram for two days. He has tons of character and has a beautiful wide flare and my buddy was and is still elated to have pulled the trigger on him. The circumstances and memories of harvesting these two LEGAL rams will long be remembered.

Thanks to everyone for the comments both positive and not so positive. Even the since departed Willy442, I appreciate your feedback. I will say briefly that my partner and I would not change one aspect of our hunt. To harvest two LEGAL stones in the fashion we did was an incredibly rewarding experience.

I had a real nice guy off HBC call me two days ago wanting to get together and was interested in how you count the annuli. Individuals on this forum talk about educating others on this sort of thing. On page 5 of the current hunting synopsis it states "Do not use yearly horn growth annuli to determine the age if a ram in the field...". I appreciate that the experienced hunters like Willy442 and his peers would like to have us all shoot Booner rams, but if they have a problem with us harvesting a legal ram like Mike's that is two inches past his nose, shouldn't their plight be with the MoE and not the hunter?

In closing, if I can leave anything from all this to you HBCers, is - keeping posting your photos. Some of you don't like the rams we shot and I respect your position. I have no regrets putting up the pictures and stories of the events - and I will post again in the future.

Also thanks again to Srupp for the ever so balanced posts.

Cheers
Kayjayess aka dink killer

[moose2]

Well said Kayjayess , and again great job on your stone sheep double. I hope we are lucky enough to be able to post ram pictures from our up coming Sept/Oct hunt.
Mike

[dana]

Good to see you are not detered by the Grand Sheep Pooba. Sometimes you have to have some tough skin on these forums. :)

Now that the drama queen has left the building, I too will add my congrats to both you and your buddy. I am not a sheep hunter but I do appreciate the hard work, blood, sweat and tears it takes to kill a legal ram. If I ever take up sheep hunting, it will be based on curl alone if I am not hunting with any one experienced in determining legality by age. This has been pointed out many times on this site, even by the grand sheep pooba himself, as the safest way to shoot a legal ram.

Hunting is way more than antlers and horns. The size of the animal is not an indication of a successful hunt. I think maybe Willy has lost this in his old age. When you spend your whole life hunting trophies for strangers, it becomes a job, not a passion. The money in your pocket at the end of the season becomes your reward, rather than the memories made with family and friends. Many many guides get burned out and forget what it is they are doing. That is why many of them give up guiding and start from scratch to try to get that feeling back again. Hopefully one day Willy will get that feeling back. Maybe one day he'll get to watch a grandchild harvest their first deer and he'll start seeing what it is that the 'resident' longs for.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Congrats on the double gentlemen!!
Sheep hunting is all about the entire experience. Not just the harvest of a ram (or two).
Good thing or I would have given it up yrs ago:).

SSS

[Remmy]

Sheep hunting is all about the entire experience


I just returned from my first Stone Sheep Hunt, and for me it was all about the experience. I didn't shoot a ram but my partner did, I was there for the stalk, the judging, and the field dressing, and pack back to basecamp (5kms).

Good job guys on your successful hunt.

[Bear Chaser]

Great rams! I'm happy you guys had a successful hunt. It's unfortunate that the sheep gurus can't keep themselves from chastising those that shoot (barely) legal rams. My partner and I just returned from our sheep hunt and both harvested great rams. I was going to post the story and pics, but after reading this thread, have decided against it.

Perhaps there should be a seperate section on this forum reserved for elitist sheep hunters, where they can exchange stories of their record-book rams?? Just a thought.

I say post away 325.
You've seen who the flamers are around here.
Most of us are just fellow hunters who enjoy a good story with lots of pics.
I've never shot a sheep and ditto for the vast majority of us.
I would like to hear about your hunt.

[ufishifish2]

Wow, what an interesting 10 page story that unfolded here. Great job on the hunt as well as the write-up.
I think the biggest accomplishment however, and something that will make this thread legendary for a long time to come is not the story, nor the sheep double header, but instead the final nail in the coffin that rid us all of Willy and his negative attitude. Good job guys.
Bye, bye Willy442! RIP :)

[Elkhound]

Sometimes you have to have some tough skin on these forums. :)

I too will add my congrats to both you and your buddy. I am not a sheep hunter but I do appreciate the hard work, blood, sweat and tears it takes to kill a legal ram. If I ever take up sheep hunting, it will be based on curl alone if I am not hunting with any one experienced in determining legality by age. This has been pointed out many times on this site, even by the grand sheep pooba himself, as the safest way to shoot a legal ram.



X2 I fully agree with the above Congrats guys

[fester]

awesome animals!!

[The Silent Stalker]

Nice work guys, great story. That's what it's all about.

[DDD]

Well done kayjayess! Great story, love the pictures. Both rams are gorgeous.

D

[ianwuzhere]

awesome double header kyle n mike. Ron and I were wondering how u guys made out after the late direction change- you guys made out much better than we did.. one heck of a ram u got, gonna be hard to top it next year-- Congrats!!!

[Orangethunder]

Awesome story man, congratulations on an amazing hunt. Sounds like you guys earned those sheep.