Mature mulie tatics

[Husky7mm]

Here's one for the die hard mulie hunters. How do your tatics change as the season rolls on? Opening day until its all over but the crying! What do you know. Feed, temps, moon, snow, elavation, frost ect..... whats the factors and how do you switch it up to stay on the ball and in the hot seat?

[835]

Well, are we fishing for Dana and dino?
cuz you know there coming.

[wsm]

i dont know who dino is but am deffinately interested in dana's, mark, jel's, opinion on this . etc and a few others i may have forgotten

[Husky7mm]

Not looking for a hijack. Its on my mind alot as mulies are my passion and I'm always open to learn something new. I could care less about the pissing contest. I know there are talented mule hunters who hunt hard and don't say much.

[GoatGuy]

If a person wants a big one look for areas that have lower deer density, high buck:doe ratios, low hunter participation and difficult access. Access doesn`t always mean road closures, often it just means physically tough country to hunt.

[pnbrock]

let the chest beating begin!!!!

[frenchbar]

Sept to oct hunt the high country..hunt the mornings and evenings hard..relax mid day .

oct till nov hunt the lower ridges 4500 foot level..same thing mornings and evenings ..later in oct ..they start moving about more all day .

nov till dec..pretty straight forward lower elevations all day.. them big boys are cruzin for tail .

Ipersonaly love to hunt em last week oct ..around 4500 ft level on them big fir ridges.

i dont realy worry about the moon phases..ive done well during the full moons ...in the mornings .

[Husky7mm]

I have heard the low deer denisty therory before, what I dont get is quiet often a big buck is taken right where everyone is hunting, right were lots of deer are, and right in a clear cut by the road. Thats being said here I am hunting and scouting away from the masses and roads, in sometimes almost deer less country. I sometimes feel like I'm trying to re-invent the wheel. October brings nice days, not so hot, but no snow for tracking and homing in on where the activity is. Many good buck are noctunal. October is a tuff month for me. It didnt work out in the alpine and now I hav to go find them agian.

[frenchbar]

I find the hunting better on overcast drizzling rainy days also...so i try to get out on those days if i can rather than the clear warmer days in sept and oct .

[GoatGuy]

I have heard the low deer denisty therory before, what I dont get is quiet often a big buck is taken right where everyone is hunting, right were lots of deer are, and right in a clear cut by the road. Thats being said here I am hunting and scouting away from the masses and roads, in sometimes almost deer less country. I sometimes feel like I'm trying to re-invent the wheel. October brings nice days, not so hot, but no snow for tracking and homing in on where the activity is. Many good buck are noctunal. October is a tuff month for me. It didnt work out in the alpine and now I hav to go find them agian.

There`s usually one or two of those every year, great for the folks that get lucky. There`s also other people hunting low density areas passing up big bucks every year.

The WK probably has the lowest density MD populations in the province and that is where the biggest mule deer bucks regularly come from. Same with that wet belt in the shuswap country and up near clearwater hehe. The trick with that country is to get 4-5 decent winters and you`ll ending up having some monster bucks hitting the dirt. When we talk about tough hunting in those areas it can literally mean going days without seeing a deer. Remember hunting 4 days in Nov out there one year and all we had seen (8 of us) was 2 white-tails, then we found the deer and there were 7 bucks hanging on the pole the next day.

October they can be anywhere on the mountain, depends on the weather, resulting food and migration. In the EK they`re usually still near or in the high country, just at a different elevation. It is totally dependant and driven by where the food is.

[Husky7mm]

Its sure nice to not have dry/ loud grass and sticks under foot, but it sucks to climb a mountian and sit in the fog all day.

[frenchbar]

The great thing about hunting muleys in sept in the alpine...is once their spotted ..you have all the time in the world you can plan and not rush...take your time and think long and hard of what your going to do..if its late in the day when you spot ...you dont have to rush it and think i gotta get it tonight ..not the case .they wont be far the next morning ...

[Husky7mm]

Love september, love opening day!
I've heard mention frost will change a mulies pattern, but not much light was put on that. Does not frost make some plants more paletable?
Would a person hunt a sea of trees with no cut blocks, roads or alpine if there was feed there?

[Big Lew]

Large bucks are not necessarily all high up in the sub-alpine, especially if most of their foods have been burnt. They can be found at lower elevations around select logging slashes with deep ravines and water and well away from usable roads. One of my favourite areas is well below the height of land. There are several small select logged areas about 2/3's the way up the mountain, and it is easy for the bucks to travel from one to the other through mature timber. Each of these small areas have water and the feed plants etc. are protected from the full sun. Patience, good binos, always being aware of the breezes, never moving into view, and quiet footwear has worked for me. I especially am happy if it is foggy, or is/has rained to soften the ground vegetation (less noise when stepping)

[Husky7mm]

GG was that 7 mulies or 7 WT's. Have you been back to see how it changes from yr to yr or was it a new spot? EK or WK? 7 bucks wow, you might have created a sperm problem lol

[GoatGuy]

GG was that 7 mulies or 7 WT's. Have you been back to see how it changes from yr to yr or was it a new spot? EK or WK? 7 bucks wow, you might have created a sperm problem lol

All mulies, and there were still plenty of bucks left. It was back in the days of the Nov 30 closure for mulies in the WK. The area had a major winter kill a couple years later and has never come back.

[Davey Crockett]

Does not frost make some plants more paletable

Frost kills herbs and then bacteria and fungi convert these plants to silage. Delicious and nutritious.

[Fisher-Dude]

i dont know who dino is but am deffinately interested in dana's, mark, jel's, opinion on this . etc and a few others i may have forgotten

Ouch! Poor Dino! :lol:


I just drive around until a big one runs across the road.

Now everyone knows my secret! :(

[dana]

For starters, I would recommend any hunter that wants to start focusing on muleys as their passion to get to know the species. Val Geist's Mule Deer Country is by far the best book that I have read regarding mule deer ecology, behavior, habitat and habits. He researched muleys in Alberta and BC so it is very applicable to us. He goes into detail regarding what they do when. It is a Must Read for any die hard muley addict. A couple other important reads would be either Mike Eastman's Hunting High Country Mule Deer or David Long's Public Land Mulies. Both books can be ordered directly from Eastman's Hunting Journal. While they come from an Yanky perspective, there is a ton of knowledge that both hunters impart in their books. For me, Mike Eastman's book changed how I hunt the early season and how I scout.

As for what I do to adapt, it mainly is I am always looking, always hunting, always scouting. Be it new or old areas, I'm always trying the piece the puzzle together. Everything from weather, dates, lack of deer sightings, abundance of deer sightings, rubs, tracks, sheds ect all go into my memory bank to be used at future dates. There is no bad day of hunting or scouting. Even if you see nothing, you are learning something, where the deer aren't! Some years they can be found in abundance from the valley bottom to the granite peaks. And then other years, they seem to disappear from everywhere. Why, when and how are just parts of the puzzle. The key is putting in a lot of time doing your research ie scouting. Mike Eastman says if you get serious regarding your goal of harvesting a mature trophy class muley, it will take 5 years to see that hard work come through to fruitition. I fully agree with him on that. Any hunter can experience luck, but it takes serious hard work over a good length of time to start stacking the odds in your favour rather than relying on chance. I have always said, if you feel lucky and win in Vegas all the time, then don't do the research, don't scout and just hope lady luck shines on you and a big ol' monster muley will standing dumb founded in front of your truck ready for you to kill it. If you are like me, luck never shines my way, so I have to work my ass off to increase my odds at killing a monster.
The early season is normally dictated by what I have found in my summer preseason scouting. Be it high elevation cutblocks or alpine. Hunting the alpine for muleys is an awesome experience but in much of the province it is only really good for opening week. Most years the snow can pile up that weekend up high and all the preseason scouting you did is long gone into the timber. Frost can also play a huge role in some areas as the summer lush dies off and the bucks drop in elevation into the timber to keep on eating that lush that has been protected from the frost by the trees. Also, fall means a changing of diet, from lush veg to browse. So no need for a buck to expose himself in the open as a lot of browse can be found in the heavy timber. Shorter days means hormones change, bucks rub the velvet and disband from their summer batchelor groups.
Oct typically signifies the start of the migration. And in many areas, a lot of deer can be found quite easily. Lots of does, fawns and young bucks start working their way towards the winter range. Not so much the big boys though. As they typically like to hang high in the timber and filter down once the snow gets deep. When it comes to big deer, Oct seems to be the toughest month to see success. Come Haloween though, some prerut is happening you can find the odd big boy in the low ground getting ready for the rut.
Nov can be both amazing or discouraging depending on the weather. Warm conditions and you see little amount of daytime rutting action. The rut can be strung out from high elevation to low elevation over the entire month. In warm conditions, it is rarely the big boys on the prowl for does, but rather does seeking out the big boys to service them. On the flip side, if you have cold conditions, you have to have your timing perfect as it is a wham, bam, thank ya mam 3-5 days of intense action. Lots of fighting and chasing. When the smoke clears, the bucks are beat up and worn out and hit the thick crap to heal up and rest for 3 weeks. Late November can be some of the hardest hunting when it comes to the big boys. Sure, you can always see young bucks still hoping to get a piece of tail, but the big boys are done and you ain't gonna kick them out of that thick $hit and get a good shot opportunity very easily.
Dec can also be good or bad depending on the weather. If a lot of snow comes in and winter is here to stay, they start their winter survival patterns. Eat Eat and Eat. They have to pound back the calories cause they lost a ton during the rut. If they don't, they will likely winter kill because they used up all their fat stores. Some years you can also see a 2nd rut happen during the last few days of the season. This happens when a doe was missed during the first rut. And how a doe gets missed is if it was warm early in the rut and she couldn't find a suiter. She will come in again normally around the 8th-12th. A short burst of rutting action can occur. If the fall was unseasonably warm, Dec can be the hardest of all to hunt. When there is little snow, the bucks will be scattered over all elevations. I've had some years where it has been snap crackle pop conditions on Dec 10th and I'm swatting bugs.

[bcmulie]

Good post, dana. For books, the 3 you mentioned are excellent. I also like Dwight Shuh's "Hunting Open Country Mule Deer" and Kirt Darner's "How to Find Giant Bucks" (although the latter one you have to take with a grain of salt given his history). Walt Prothero also has a few books that are ok (Mule Deer Quest, Stalking Trophy Mule Deer) and Kathy Etling's book "Hunting Superbucks" is at least an entertaining book. I wouldn't waste my money (again!) on "Ask the Mule Deer Guides" or "Hunting for Giant Mule Deer Bucks in Arizona's Kaibab Region".

September I hunt the high country. Regions where the season opens Sept 1 you can probably get 2 weeks or so of decent high country hunting. All spot and stalk hunting for me then.

If I'm after a meat buck, then hunting the cutblocks in October usually results in a filled tag. If you want a big one in Oct, though, that is much tougher. Try hunting the timber as others have suggested. If there's snow, I will try tracking - same in November. Both months I've taken several bucks that way.

During the rut, try calling, rattling, rubbing an antler on a tree, watch the does.

Late season the mature bucks are holed up trying to put on some fat to get through the winter. Can be pretty tough hunting unless the wintering grounds are limited and the big bucks are gathered there.

bcmulie

[mark]

All the good stuff has been mentioned!
3 very key times....
1 opening day, high country ( always have opportunity, but standards are extremely high, so success is low for me!)
2 mid november...peak rut....(most of my success)
3 & closing day dec. 10.....winter range & second rut! ( have had lots of success, mostly because standards are lower on this day!)

[Weatherby Fan]

Same thing here mark ,will hunt the first 10 days of opening in Sept depending on pressure sometimes it will be good until first severe frost or Snowfall,I call Oct the transitional month so this is when I hunt elk and then key in on the rut in all of Nov,I have found a secondary rut in early Dec at times,this in area 3-30 where I hunt alot,

I have found like Dana mentioned anything big Im hunting in the thick jackpines or sometimes just on the edges of the thick shit or in real steep choppy benches with lots of escape routes,never out in the open,you will find some smaller 4 points chasing the does around at first light and in the evening but never seeing anything big unless Im pushing them around,I believe anything really big and or old become's entirely nocturnal with any movement.
I find it's better to hunt in the last cpl of hours of light in the thick stuff as the Doe's are on the move feeding and the Bucks are usually not far behind.
WF

[fowlweather]

just asking a question here i have no experience and am taking all of your opinions. but during the youth season, (first days of september) wouldn't the bucks of any size be hanging out on lower levels because they are still hanging out before they start hearing shots? or do they start heading up to the tops of mountains once fawns are walking?

[Darksith]

just asking a question here i have no experience and am taking all of your opinions. but during the youth season, (first days of september) wouldn't the bucks of any size be hanging out on lower levels because they are still hanging out before they start hearing shots? or do they start heading up to the tops of mountains once fawns are walking?

Deer don't recognize gunfire as danger most of the time. Its simply a loud bang/boom like thunder. When we talk about hunting pressure and hunters pushing the deer from the open slashes medows into the timber, it is simply human presence that does this. You see many deer in the summer b/c there is simply less human traffic in the back country, and most of it simply passes by. When hunting season starts trucks stop, there is extra movement with each encounter, and that movement is directed towards the animals which will push them into more reclusive behavior. Deer, elk, and many other species will move upwards in elevation to avoid the heat of summer, as well as find preferred feed and less activity from animals overall. It is also easier to spot a predator approaching when there is no cover for them, so I make an assumption that it is safer higher up in the alpine as well. You can relax a bit after a tough winter worried about predators once you are up in the wide open alpine, its a time for the animals to unwind almost IMO...I could be completely full of BS, but thats my $0.02

[dana]

During the first week of Sept, for the most part, the bucks are still in their summer patterns. IMO this has little to do with human activity and more to do with hormones. Just observe a buck in a farmer's field in the summer. He'll feed knowing you are there and not have a care in the world. As soon as the velvet is rubbed, totally different ballgame. This is why summer scouting can be so productive for mature muleys come opening week. They have spent all summer getting fat and sassy and are pretty easy to pattern. If you are scouting the highcountry and find a big buck in a basin, chances are he'll still be in that basin with his buddies come opening day. Typically 50% will be rubbed by the 10th and 100% will be rubbed by the 14th. The hormones are active and the batchelor groups split up. Bucks start roaming independantly. It can be a 100 km jont to their winter range, and they can take a few weeks or a few months to cover that ground. So with this in mind, IMO, the first 15 days of Sept are your best bet to see your homework come to fruitition and get a big buck on the ground. The earlier the better as the weather in the highcountry starts getting nasty over that time period. I must point out though, not all big bucks go high. A lot stay low in farmer's fields or hang out in mid to high elevation cutblocks. As long as there is good feed and plenty of water and cover, they will enjoy their summer home. You don't need to be above treeline to have successful scouting. You find a cutblock or field with a big buck living in it in the summer, chances are you will find him in that same cutblock come opening day.

[Big Lew]

Agree with "dana" about the difference in human activity....As I earlier stated, not all huge bucks are up in the alpine. A Brother of mine is a logging contractor in the central interior. In every block they have been harvesting (bug kill) over the past several years, there have been a few massive bucks, along with the normal 2-4 pointers, and does etc. The machinery and vehicle, including logging trucks noise and traffic doesn't seem to be enough to chase them away during the summer. It is not uncommon for the people running the machinery to see these big boys anytime during the day, sometimes quite close to where they are working. As soon as hunters show up, the summer traffic changes, vehicles are going slow and stopping, people get out and try to approach, so the older, really big bucks leave for the heavy timber and become nocturnal, or leave the area completely.

[dana]

Good post, dana. For books, the 3 you mentioned are excellent. I also like Dwight Shuh's "Hunting Open Country Mule Deer" and Kirt Darner's "How to Find Giant Bucks" (although the latter one you have to take with a grain of salt given his history). Walt Prothero also has a few books that are ok (Mule Deer Quest, Stalking Trophy Mule Deer) and Kathy Etling's book "Hunting Superbucks" is at least an entertaining book. I wouldn't waste my money (again!) on "Ask the Mule Deer Guides" or "Hunting for Giant Mule Deer Bucks in Arizona's Kaibab Region".

bcmulie

The imfamous Kirt Darner definately had a lot of people fooled for a lot of years. A lot of his bucks were either stolen, bought or poached. But...when you read his book, How To Find Giant Bucks, there is no doubt the man still knew trophy muleys. I certainly wouldn't recommend going out and buying his book, although you can find them dirt cheap online as his latest run ins with the law has caused even the faithful to abandon ship. I have found the book in the Thompson Nicola Regional District library system. If you take his stories with a grain of salt and just focus on the tips, you will find some good info. Fishhooking is one technique I use on a regular basis when doggin' a hawg track in the thick timber.

Another book I would recommend is Mule Deer: Hunting Today's Trophies by Jim Van Norman and Tom Carpenter. Lots of very useful tips in the book. One that comes to mind is Scrolling, a technique I use all the time when moving around in the high country or the open grassland country.

Mule Deer: Behavior, Ecology, Conservation by Erwin Bauer is another book I highly recommend. It is in the same vain as Geist's and covers alot on the habits of mule deer. Plus, it also has some amazing photography as Erwin and his wife Peggy were world renowned wildlife photographers.

And another good book just about mule deer hunting stories is Majestic Mule Deer by Voyageur Press. Some classic stories and lots of high class photography.

[dana]

The one thing that I would recommend is to learn what a big buck looks like. What is the difference between those young 150 class bucks and those mature 170-180 bucks. Mike Eastman goes into detail on how to Rack Bracket, field judge trophy mule deer. This is very important if you don't want that sinking feeling of ground shrinkage. It is my opinion that you have to look at a ton of deer to get a feel for what they really are. Good ways to practice is getting your hands on as many sheds and racks as you can and actually put the tape to them. Also, watching DVD's with a lot of live footage can get you guessing at what the animal scores and you can get the feel of the looks of average deer versus big deer. The best mule deer DVD's on market is the Muley Crazy Series by Ryan Hatch. Tons upon tons of amazing live footage. He also has one DVD about his mule deer hunting strategies called, On The Trail Of Trophy Mule Deer. While Ryan focus' on southwest Desert muleys, there still is a lot of useful tips that can be used here in BC for our Rocky Mountain Muleys. If there is anything that I have learned from Ryan it is indeed Team work. Hunting with a group of guys as hard-core as you are is how I have found my success has increased dramatically. When you have numerous eyes hunting and scouting, you can cover a lot of ground and pool your info. Putting your brains together and discussing strategies can come up with stunning results.

[thatskindafunny]

To get a big mulie a hunter has to learn to let the smaller ones walk. And as the old, old, old mule deer hunter with many a big one to his credit (god bless his soul) use to say to me while sitting in his blind from September 20th till November 10 "Dougie I don't know when the big one is going to come by but I have to be here" One day while blacktail hunting sitting in my tree stand I said, Ken, I don't know when the big one is going to come by but I have to be here. 1/2 hour later a small one came by and I let him walk and 5 minutes later I had the big one. Put the time in and take advise from people on here and you'll get one. Still waiting to get my big mulie but next year plan to be sitting in that very same blind from September until November 10th. And just remember, just when you got them figured out they will do something else!!

[frenchbar]

All good info guys ..the books by the above mentioned are great ..but get out there yr long in your hunting spot learn the area.. the muleys habits ...goes along way in being successful...man sept cant come soon enough for this muley nut!

[Big Lew]

Check out "MIL720's" thread, 'out for a drive today,' it more than less reinforces my post on this thread regarding big bucks in new cut blocks during the summer even with human activity around.

[Husky7mm]

This summer has been strange. Alot of high basin still have snow covering the ground, but everywhere the snow has left is like a jungle. There has been so much ingrowth this yr that many old rds and trails have just disappeared. Many newer logging blocks look 10 yrs old, thanks to this yr and last yr as it was also "strange". There must be 10x the flys and mosquitos as usual. How will this affect finding big bucks.

[358mag]

Ouch! Poor Dino! :lol:


I just drive around until a big one runs across the road.

Now everyone knows my secret! :(
Truer words have never been spoken on HBC look out Dana + Mark

[moose2]

Good thread guys alot of good info there. Our 7b season dosn't open until Nov so alot of the alpine and cut block tecniques may not work this late. We like to hunt the crown aspen flats that boarder the farm areas this time of year. Snow tracking is my favorite. The trail cam really helps with checking whats around night or day. I think the key to a big buck is like what has been said on here don't shoot the small one. This is my biggest mistake I always focused on a meat buck and never had a tag left for the big guys. I have shot many desent 4 x 4 s up to 160 but not the wall hangers. Yet almost every spring I will find BC book sheds up as high as mid 190s one time. My avitar are sheds from a clean 3 x 3 175 class. I know they are around so I have to be patient and willing to eat my tag next year if I don't see the 180 I am looking for. Thanks for all the tips
Mike

[Husky7mm]

In the early season do you think a mature mulie could live right under your nose just like a caggy whitetail, and you dont even know he's there. Also when scouting for an opening day spot what come first, finding a big buck and then getting to know the country intimatly or getting to know the country intimatly in hopes of finding a big buck? Thanks for the post so far guys.

[GoatGuy]

In the early season do you think a mature mulie could live right under your nose just like a caggy whitetail, and you dont even know he's there. Also when scouting for an opening day spot what come first, finding a big buck and then getting to know the country intimatly or getting to know the country intimatly in hopes of finding a big buck? Thanks for the post so far guys.

Yes.

Best to know the country before you find the big buck.

[pg83]

In the early season do you think a mature mulie could live right under your nose just like a caggy whitetail, and you dont even know he's there.


Absolutely. Mature animals of any species don't get to their age by being dumb.

[GoatGuy]

During the first week of Sept, for the most part, the bucks are still in their summer patterns. IMO this has little to do with human activity and more to do with hormones. Just observe a buck in a farmer's field in the summer. He'll feed knowing you are there and not have a care in the world. As soon as the velvet is rubbed, totally different ballgame. This is why summer scouting can be so productive for mature muleys come opening week. They have spent all summer getting fat and sassy and are pretty easy to pattern. If you are scouting the highcountry and find a big buck in a basin, chances are he'll still be in that basin with his buddies come opening day. Typically 50% will be rubbed by the 10th and 100% will be rubbed by the 14th. The hormones are active and the batchelor groups split up. Bucks start roaming independantly. It can be a 100 km jont to their winter range, and they can take a few weeks or a few months to cover that ground. So with this in mind, IMO, the first 15 days of Sept are your best bet to see your homework come to fruitition and get a big buck on the ground. The earlier the better as the weather in the highcountry starts getting nasty over that time period. I must point out though, not all big bucks go high. A lot stay low in farmer's fields or hang out in mid to high elevation cutblocks. As long as there is good feed and plenty of water and cover, they will enjoy their summer home. You don't need to be above treeline to have successful scouting. You find a cutblock or field with a big buck living in it in the summer, chances are you will find him in that same cutblock come opening day.

Tried to reply to this before; while these generalizations are sound they don't apply to all areas.

Seen bucks, including big ones, batchelored up well into October. Some areas you'll find deer rutting right up in the high country. October can be really good in the high country if the weather gets cold or if you hit it when the bucks decide to bail.

The bottom line is to know your area, where the deer move and when. It's generally dictated by veg and migration.

[pg83]

There will never be 100% accurate advice for behavioral patterns of any animal, there are always going to be exceptions. The information in this thread is very helpful if used properly. Like you just mentioned Goat Guy, the best way to learn is to know your area. You need to keep in mind that the animals within this area will always be changing their patterns as time goes on. It's called evolution. I would like to thank a number of people for their well thought out responses in this thread as I have learned some new things to look out for in the future.

[Husky7mm]

I dont know if I could handle the kind of time it takes learning one area like the back of my hand, without knowing that a big buck was actually in the area first. I have lived in the koots the past 6 and have scouted somewhere new almost every week of the yr and have yet to put a dent in the place.

[dana]

Tried to reply to this before; while these generalizations are sound they don't apply to all areas.

Seen bucks, including big ones, batchelored up well into October. Some areas you'll find deer rutting right up in the high country. October can be really good in the high country if the weather gets cold or if you hit it when the bucks decide to bail.

The bottom line is to know your area, where the deer move and when. It's generally dictated by veg and migration.

This is a vast province and mule deer cover much of it. Generalizations are needed as they cover most of what happens in this province. Each area and each deer are different. If I were to talk only about the Monashees, I could say that most deer don't migrate much more than 15 kms from the alpine to their winter range. Pretty easy for a buck to go down, breed does and head back up all in the same night. Some bucks never head down. Some bucks winter at the timberline in the ESSF rhodo jungles. Pretty safe there as all the predators are down low chasing the 'herd'. A lone buck can find all he needs to survive the winter in the treewells of the big spruce and will eat the tops off the sub-alpine fir. I've also encountered rutting bucks in belly deep snow just below treeline. The does sometimes are still up that high too.
In some areas bucks never go up and live in the valley bottoms all summer along major riparian areas. Typically the veg is thick and they can stay well hidden all year just like a caggy whitetail. Other areas bucks can live in farmland their entire lives never leaving private. Lots of variables given each area and each deer.

[dana]

This summer has been strange. Alot of high basin still have snow covering the ground, but everywhere the snow has left is like a jungle. There has been so much ingrowth this yr that many old rds and trails have just disappeared. Many newer logging blocks look 10 yrs old, thanks to this yr and last yr as it was also "strange". There must be 10x the flys and mosquitos as usual. How will this affect finding big bucks.

You are starting to see the big picture. How does what we are experiencing this summer change the patterns of bucks? I can tell ya for the most part, the alpine ain't gonna hold a lot of deer this summer. That is a generalization but for most areas will be true. The reason why bucks head high is to follow the snow as it melts so they can always be feeding on lush veg. This year, there is lush everywhere and it took forever for the snow to melt in the highcounty. In fact, a lot of highcountry is still holding a lot of snow right now. The majority of bucks will have given up on moving higher and will stay put where they are. This affects how you scout. Do you go high in hopes those basins hold a monster or do you focus on low ground and change it up?

[dana]

Yes.

Best to know the country before you find the big buck.

That is the classic what came first, chicken or the egg. To kill a big buck, you need to hunt where one lives. To know where one lives you need to know the country. IMO you need to research your areas in the off season and you will come to conclusions sometimes without even seeing a buck. In the lower ground are you finding last year's rubs? How big are they? Just little whips or full on TREES? You find Big Rubs you can come to the conclusion a big buck lives there. You won't have a clue on his score, but you can be certain a big mature buck makes Big Rubs. Covering ground during the spring looking for sheds allows me to get to know the humps and bumps, draws, ridges, possible escape routes ect. If all I'm finding for tine is dink sheds, do ya think I'm gonna spend a great deal of time hunting the area? And if I find even 1 big shed, what are the chances that buck will be back come the late season looking for does in the same area? Chances are pretty good. So, I've killed 2 birds with one stone. I've learned the ground and I've learned there is a big buck living there.

[Weatherby Fan]

Its amazing the difference between mountains,one area we hunt in area 8 has very mature bucks the widest was 29 inches wide that we have taken,10 miles to the west on another area we go to all small spindly 4 points none more than 16-18 inches wide and very short tines or crawdad forks if you will,been there several times always the same poor looking gene pool,so you never know until you spend some time in an area.
As dana says every place is different as things change year to year like this year with the weather,Im going this next week to do some scouting so I will see if the late snow pack has affected some of our areas in 8 and in area 3

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[ACE]

Book: Mule and Black-tailed Deer of North America - Wallmo......biology textbook....lots of info...
After the season opener, but pre-rut......I don't waste too much time hunting 'easy' ground......
Head into the 'dirty' country.....hideouts and rough country. Hunt solo, and be prepared to stay a while.
Pays off with nice bones sometimes.......sometimes not. This type of hunting isn't for everyone......

[dave_fras]

i use to shoot the first decent 4 point id see... about 4 years ago i started to actually pic and choose!.. its tough as hell tho..when u see a 150 inch muley 200 yard in front of u.. and u gotta let him walk! but its the only way youre gonna get a monster... but if i had a 150 inch near me... and i had my bow.. well thats a diff story haha.. u really do have to know what a real big mule looks like!... ive shot a few that i thought were big... then i walk up and they are in that 150 range... sure is a let down.. but thats one thing i learned ... u gotta really know what a big buck looks like!

[Husky7mm]

True on the lush growth everywhere, everything will have a thick layer of fat on them this year. How will the game respond to all the bugs? They are so thick you can hardly breath. Thousands and thousands of mosquitos everywhere you go. How do they escape them. Stand it the sun, never stop moving, hope its windy, or go up to the rocks. I bet this year will be a record for mosquitos!

[Weatherby Fan]

True on the lush growth everywhere, everything will have a thick layer of fat on them this year. How will the game respond to all the bugs? They are so thick you can hardly breath. Thousands and thousands of mosquitos everywhere you go. How do they escape them. Stand it the sun, never stop moving, hope its windy, or go up to the rocks. I bet this year will be a record for mosquitos!

There was a report on Global that it's the worst year in the last 50 years for mosquitos !