Crater mtn., ashnola....reg. 8-03

[bcfarmer]

The grasslands of Crater Mountain are in peril. It has become all too apparent in recent times that the use of ATV's past the road closure areas of Crater Mountain have become routine. Several of our members ( Keremeos-Cawston Sportsmen Association) have identified ATV's past road closures and have spoken to these people and informed them of the closures. Most admit to knowing about the closures and seeing the signs, but they proceed past them anyway.
In a recent day no less than 10 ATV's were spoken to about the restriction to recreational use of vehicles past certain points. The grasslands and wildlife cannot continue to see this kind of abuse.
Crater Mountain is a sensitive area with grasslands and wildlife. Sheep (ewes) were observed directly above where some people who drove their ATV's into a snow bank to do a little “playing”. These animals are sensitive to vehicles and should not be subject to this kind of harassment. These are not all “tourists”. There have been local people who have openly stated that they go past the closures on a weekly basis.
We would like to inform and remind people that these closures are important to the flora and fauna of the area and respect must be given to the habitat. PLEASE do not drive past identified road closures on Crater Mountain. If you, yourself encounter unauthorized motor vehicles beyond the closures, please report them to the Conservation Office.

The known infractions have been reported to the Conservation Office, and we suspect that patrols will be increased in this area. We say we are not in favor of a National Park as we can manage the area ourselves – LET'S PROVE IT!



BCF.

[BCBear]

When I see this type of sign it stops me in my tracks

"SEVERE TIRE DAMAGE MAY OCCUR"

[Fisher-Dude]

Hopefully we get the closure changed from the Forest Act to the Wildlife Act.

Thanks for all the work your club is doing in this area, BCF.

[mark]

Not that I support quads in the alpine or any quad restricted area......but why are these sheep sensitive to vehicles??????
What makes them different from all other sheep????
Ive been in that area, seen lots of sheep from the main road and they didnt blink an eye about my truck????????????????????

[Jagermeister]

Contact these people with the complaint http://www.atvbc.ca/ and this link to get the message across. http://quads.ca/
The former will take it more seriously.
Crater Mountain is my old stomping ground from the late 60's and I would hope that should I visit it today that it would be nearly the same as when I frequented the area then.

[jeff]

sensitive to vehicles what the hell does that mean some of the posts on some of theese threads makes me wonder if this is a hunting site or or a tree huggers site

[bcfarmer]

Jeff and Mark,

I could argue that most wildlife is sensitive to vehicles. I haven't seen many stick around in close vacinity while driving. And vehicles in the alpine roaring around, not exactly the ideal situation for wildlife or the grasslands.

The bottom line is that the area is closed to the operation of unauthorized motor vehicles. It has been for years. This was posted simply to remind people of that.

Jeff, if that makes me a tree hugger and this a tree hugger website, then so be it. At least an effort is being made.

bcf

[dino]

Bc farmer
I agree with you about keeping the Quaders out, I also have hunted there and being a quadder myself I dont know why a quadder would be there. Most quadders want some challenging trails, riding on grass open country is boring. I always see lots of people there and never a quad. If we do see quaders in there how can we stop them. No one has tried to even deactivate any of the old roads going in.

[SHAKER]

They don't deactivate the road because the G\O, rancher ect can use the road if they want. Good post BCF..... Pretty sad that it turns into a highway up there and people don't even care (signs or no signs).

[bcmulie]

Great post bcfarmer. Jeff and Mark, c'mon guys...this was a good post trying to bring attention to an important issue and you guys attack bcfarmer for saying that sheep are sensitive to vehicles?! The fact is that all wildlife are sensitive to vehicles. Anyone who thinks that ATV's driving around on areas where bighorns range won't impact their feeding and movement patterns needs to do some reading. Caring about the impact that ATVs have on wild sheep doesn't make me a tree hugger - it's part of what makes me a hunter.

bcmulie

[fireguy]

I couldn't agree more with keeping the quads out of the grasslands down there. I don't want to see a National park because some idiot is running around with his quad or dirt bike in a closed area. I had a sheep draw and hiked in and packed out on foot and would have been pissed off if some idiot on a bike was ripping around and ruined my hunt. As it was I saw nobody and had a great hunt.
Lets keep it that way.

[cruiser]

Thanks for posting this thread.

I hunted there about 10-15 years ago. When I was first up there it was only guys on foot or horseback going in. The problem started when they repaired the road to the top (for tending to the cattle I assume) and put up the road closure signs. I had a sheep draw early September. Parked my truck at the closure sign and hiked in to set up camp up top. Sure enough 3 quads and a dirt bike rolled in. We spoke with them clearly annoyed and they left, but I had worries what they would have done to my truck for confronting them on it (they didn't do anything to my truck). I would have reported it but what would the report say that would be of any use when theres hundreds of similar vehicles and dudes in camo driving around the province every day making their actions annonymous. Had I of driven my truck up I'd fully expect to have my plates and vehicle description reported.

It's not about hugging trees or being a biggot against hunters that can't hike. If an area is closed to motor vehicles, it's closed. Huge province and lots of area that isn't.

[835]

Maybe the area guide an the cattle farmer should get talked to as well.
I hunted up there for years and thoes two were the main culprits.

The guide gets his hands to run the sheep off that hill

[Weatherby Fan]

Ive hunted extensively all through that area from Crater Mtn west to Flattop to Pasayten River and south all along the border the last few years have been the awefull with the amount of quads riding around all through the Alpine,hard on the feeding patterns of the animals for sure.
Nothing wrong with riding quads but please just obey the road closures at the very least,a little frustrating after backpacking into the Alpine only to have guys riding all over it just because they're to damb lazy to walk in.
It used to be very pristine in that area not so much anymore.
WF

[MillBay]

"sensitive to vehicles what the hell does that mean some of the posts on some of theese threads makes me wonder if this is a hunting site or or a tree huggers site "

So if you are hunter you are suppose to have a "cut it" and "pave it" type of attitude? Many many hunters support the protection of sensitive areas and the wildlife that goes with it, and lots of them are on HBC. I was raised hunting Crater in the 70's, and hiked every bit of it and it's not to hard to understand why they don't want ATV's on it. A comment like yours must be from someone who dosn't walk much and really observe the eco system around you. Give it a try it will help you be a better hunter.

[MichelD]

I'm pretty sensitive about this issue too.

I had the draw there one year and camped below the road closure sign and hiked up. Opening morning of my LEH permit I heard the tell tale putt-putt of a quad climbing up past the vehicle closed sign and about an hour later heard a shot.

With binoculars I actually saw the quad parked at a spot once I gained enough elevation to look over to the ridge. No sign of anyone around though. Never saw the quad back the next day or any other either. I day hiked from my camp every day and saw some sub legals, but nothing legal. Met a couple other hunters who said they'd come across a freshly killed sub-legal ram left to rot.

The next day the COs were there looking for it and evidence and of course quizzed me closely about the location of the illegal ram which I couldn't help them with as it was the other guys who'd spotted it. I told them about the quad guy.

So as far as I could tell, not only did this guy violate the road closed law, he poached too, then took off and left me under suspicion.

Well, coincidently, I ran into the same CO while whitetail hunting later in the year and she said they'd figured out who he was, and he admitted riding into the closed area, but denied shooting the sheep.

Some guys just figure the rules the rest of us follow aren't for them I guess.

[SHAKER]

I will note to you guys that the rancher is not too active on the quads up there. I was talk'n this issue over this spring and it piss's them off too when guys are run'n all over the place. It's their home stomp'n grounds and don't want to see it get messed up either.

[835]

Well i stand corrected on the Rancher bit But i know the guide runs the sheep off with the quads. That is a reported to the CO's fact.

[wsm]

I DONT SEE ANY REASON TO ARGUE . IT SAYS ROAD CLOSED, if you go beyond that point you are breaking the law and deserve whatever u get . farmer , guide, quad rider, shouldn't matter. now having said that i have seen the devastation done to alpine's by cattle , and it is as much or more damage than quads

[bighornbob]

Maybe someone should start doing some "high country tune-ups" or in laymans terms "a shot through the engine" when they see an unattened quad:):)

Word would get out quick that you should not take a quad up there.

BHB

[jeff]

logging causes extensive damage cattle causes extensive damage road building with dynamite helicopters surveying excavators putting in culverts changing the natural creek flows slash burning with oil diesel mix much much more i dont see what a quad following an old road could possibly hurt whats wrong with u people and ive probably done more foot scouting this year alone than the average hunter does all season so i see whats going on out there just fine

[835]

Trouble is BHB there isnt many ways to get off that mountain and not get caught. And more to the point I would never strand someone 8000' up a mountain no matter how bad they are.

[Phreddy]

It's amazing what a couple of handsful of long gyproc nails spread about on old quad tracks will accomplish. Not that I'm recommending it of course, but hey, these guys are obviously in desperate need of knowledge that sticks. (bad pun)

[jeff]

if i saw u spreading nails across a trail id slash your tires right in front of u

[MillBay]

"logging causes extensive damage cattle causes extensive damage road building with dynamite helicopters surveying excavators putting in culverts changing the natural creek flows slash burning with oil diesel mix much much more i dont see what a quad following an old road could possibly hurt whats wrong with u people and ive probably done more foot scouting this year alone than the average hunter does all season so i see whats going on out there just fine"

Yes you are right and everyone else in this post is wrong. I can't imagine what things would be like if everyone had the same attitude. Oh and don't assume how much scouting and hiking everyone else does you have no idea.

[835]

Ya im kinda with you on the nail bit Jeff, But,,,,

There is nothing Enviornmentaly wrong with driving on the old roads. Yes you are not alloud to do it but yes i dont think you are "Wrecking the place" by doing it. But this mountain has been closed to it for years. Before the major advent of quads that mountain was a great place to hunt. I also think the GOS wrecked that mountain as well, It was better off as a 4pt plus all season.

ps I like quads, I like Crater, I like the road restrictions on Crater, I think Crater is perfectly Do able on foot from where these closures start. I see no need for them past that.

[Whonnock Boy]

logging causes extensive damage cattle causes extensive damage road building with dynamite helicopters surveying excavators putting in culverts changing the natural creek flows slash burning with oil diesel mix much much more i dont see what a quad following an old road could possibly hurt whats wrong with u people and ive probably done more foot scouting this year alone than the average hunter does all season so i see whats going on out there just fine

Yes Jeff, it is well known that human advancement takes its toll on mother nature. We all just need to do our part in diminishing our foot print. Be it recycling, reducing your energy consumption, or not ripping up pristine Rocky Mountain alpine on your quad. It is a fact that usually a few reckless individuals will ruin it for everyone, for which I have no doubt you are doing your part to contribute judging by your previous posts. If it is closed for one, it is closed for all. Why? Because someone like you and your non 'tree hugging' attitude ruined it for the rest of us. FYI, I do not own a quad, nor do I have a desire to purchase one.


if i saw u spreading nails across a trail id slash your tires right in front of u

Don't ride on closed trails or roads and you should not have a problem.

[frenchbar]

With the amount of quad riders out there nowadays..the problem will get worse not better sad but true ..should be a total ban of motorized vehicles on the mountain..

[doubled]

What part of closed do you guys not understand? This is not rocket science. Rules are rules regardless of what you may think of them - pretty simple.

[Fisher-Dude]

if i saw u spreading nails across a trail id slash your tires right in front of u

Are you really that obtuse, or am I missing the sarcasm in your posts?

[Jelvis]

Build a road, people will come with trucks, motor bikes, quads and keep coming and lot's will drive up right past closed signs.
I see it here in Kamloops all the time, right past the signs in hunting season.
The problem is, the road. Not everyone obeys laws and they are the ones who go beyond the sign.
I told the top guy in Kamloops conservation take the roads completely out or those A holes will just keep on driving in, and they use radios to tell each other things while doing it.
JP .. We will never stop people from J walking on a city street and or stop them from driving on a dirt back road either as long as it's there it will be used.
The top guy listened and had a giant machine take the road out, I owe him for such a honest result. Kamloops moe is tops.

[SHAKER]

Well i stand corrected on the Rancher bit But i know the guide runs the sheep off with the quads. That is a reported to the CO's fact.

Without a doubt that is a fact!

[dino]

Are you really that obtuse, or am I missing the sarcasm in your posts?

There is nothing obtuse about it, what dont you get about what he said. I understand it perfectly. If you mess with him or his quad he's going f*** you up.

[jeff]

thanks dino u explained it perfectly

[fireguy]

If the guide is running sheep off the mountian so only his clients can get them he shouldn't be guiding anymore. Another reason there is anamosity between guides and resedent hunters. If it is true and nothing was done about it, you should follow up with the CO and above his head if necessary.

[jeff]

what a bunch of wanna be CO s everybodys got the answer call the cops fricken joke half u guys who have posted these great suggestions seem to have the answers and they seem so fake this is what id do this is what u should do just leave it alone and get on with your phoney life

[Phreddy]

Are you really that obtuse, or am I missing the sarcasm in your posts?

Youre missing the sarcasm. I am, however, all for the requirement for licensing quads. It'll make it a lot easier to report and for the CO to lay charges with a few pictures and a license number to back it all up.
I ride a quad and am sick and tired of watching these brain challenged clowns tearing up the alpine and other areas. As said earlier in this thread, they are the ones that ruin it for everyone else. Sort of like the idiots who don't know what they're doing with firearms.

[Jelvis]

jeff, jeff we hear your frustration hunter. I see the off roaders up the Nor river driving the closed to motor vehicle roads all the time. It really urks a guy who walks and hikes but your not going to stop these bozo's. No one can it's near impossible.
Trucks, atv's drive right by the actual signs and go for miles then have the gall to park the truck an go for a walk. Nothing we can do unless you want to confront them and get into an argument, then they say oh no I think this road is open all the locals drive it. etc.
Jp .. You and I can not change the world so save your self the grief and relax ..
It's getting worse each season anyways. We can't make the world go away ......

[Jagermeister]

First, I own a quad and have used it for hunting before the end of the last millenium. I like using it too.
Secondly, I have hunted Crater Mountain many times and one day I may go back there to hunt it again.
I would never consider using my quad in that area, it was meant to hike or horse back ride and I am not keen on the latter as it can be as damaging as an ATV.
The sign says no motorized vehicles beyond the sign. The sign is meant for everyone regardless whether they are sightseeing or hunting. Plain and simple. If I were in the area, I would document as much as I could on violaters, pictures, video and whatever else that could get a conviction in court.
Maybe it is time to start seizing the assets to get the message across.

[Fisher-Dude]

There's unanimous support at the regional level to make this a Wildlife Act closure instead of a Forest Act closure.

The way the CO explained it to us at FHAC:

Forest Act - he gives the guy a ticket for motorized vehicle in a closed area, guy pays a puny fine, and keeps his sheep strapped on the rack. Fine is easier than packing out his animal, which he can legally keep.

Wildlife Act - he gives the guy a ticket, confiscates his ram, and the guy has a Wildlife Act record for the rest of his life.

Hopefully, Victoria gives thumbs up to the Wildlife Act proposal so that the penalty has some teeth.

I'm the first guy that bitches when access restrictions are in place for anything but conservation. This closure is for conservation reasons, and makes sense, and I support it 100%.

[Alpine85]

Trouble is BHB there isnt many ways to get off that mountain and not get caught. And more to the point I would never strand someone 8000' up a mountain no matter how bad they are.

I think it would be funny......second, they could walk there lazy ass down the road.

[SHAKER]

what a bunch of wanna be CO s everybodys got the answer call the cops fricken joke half u guys who have posted these great suggestions seem to have the answers and they seem so fake this is what id do this is what u should do just leave it alone and get on with your phoney life

Not sure I'm reading this right? So you think it is O.K. to drive around in a closed area? Sorry I'm having a hard time understanding your thoughts.

[jeff]

ive never ever road my quad in a closed area or in the alpine just listening to all the yahoos and no it alls and followers makes me laugh many of u guys are all a bunch of followers too scared to say your true opinion how many u guys drink and drive smoked pot snort coke assualt someone at the pub hit your wife and many other wrong things not sayuingh any of u do but thjeres alota people behind closed doors aint who u think they are so before u say rideing your quad on a closed road is sao bad look back on some of the things youve done in the past

[fireguy]

Jeff you are right, people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Freshtracks]

ive never ever road my quad in a closed area or in the alpine just listening to all the yahoos and no it alls and followers makes me laugh many of u guys are all a bunch of followers too scared to say your true opinion how many u guys drink and drive smoked pot snort coke assualt someone at the pub hit your wife and many other wrong things not sayuingh any of u do but thjeres alota people behind closed doors aint who u think they are so before u say rideing your quad on a closed road is sao bad look back on some of the things youve done in the past

Riding on a posted, closed to ATV use, road is BAD!!! Let St. Peter deal with the rest.

[Slinky Pickle]

You know, most people on this forum I would like to meet and share a beer or two with. Others I would just like to meet for a couple of minutes.

[bcfarmer]

ive never ever road my quad in a closed area or in the alpine just listening to all the yahoos and no it alls and followers makes me laugh many of u guys are all a bunch of followers too scared to say your true opinion how many u guys drink and drive smoked pot snort coke assualt someone at the pub hit your wife and many other wrong things not sayuingh any of u do but thjeres alota people behind closed doors aint who u think they are so before u say rideing your quad on a closed road is sao bad look back on some of the things youve done in the past

Jeff,
The original post was about Crater Mtn and ATV's and a request to respect both. While I feel your frustration with all of societies other pitfalls, lets stay on topic.

Everyone, this is not about what the rancher or the guide or any other commercial business has a right to do. This is about us as individual outdoor enthusiasts respecting the closure.

Many thanks to all with positive feedback. If more are willing to do their part with respecting the closures and reporting infractions as well as just spreading the word, maybe we can stop this from being a yearly thread.

bcf

[dino]

Jeff,
The original post was about Crater Mtn and ATV's and a request to respect both. While I feel your frustration with all of societies other pitfalls, lets stay on topic.

Everyone, this is not about what the rancher or the guide or any other commercial business has a right to do. This is about us as individual outdoor enthusiasts respecting the closure.

Many thanks to all with positive feedback. If more are willing to do their part with respecting the closures and reporting infractions as well as just spreading the word, maybe we can stop this from being a yearly thread.

bcf

I think the hard pill to swallow when your hiking in a closed area and you see a rancher go by on a quad, you knid of get a feeling that its unfair and why can he do that and i cant. I dont consider crater to be alpine just because its above 6500 feet. Crater is a grassy hill that holds all kinds of sensitve animals and plants. No one should be aloud to quad there and no special privileges should be granted to anyone. I cant help but think that ranchers,G.O's and logging companys lobby for closers for their own benefit. Why is the road to the top of the cath mtns only open to a select few. These thoughts probebly go through some of the minds of these rec quadders that are abuseing the closeures.

[835]

ive never ever road my quad in a closed area or in the alpine just listening to all the yahoos and no it alls and followers makes me laugh many of u guys are all a bunch of followers too scared to say your true opinion how many u guys drink and drive smoked pot snort coke assualt someone at the pub hit your wife and many other wrong things not sayuingh any of u do but thjeres alota people behind closed doors aint who u think they are so before u say rideing your quad on a closed road is sao bad look back on some of the things youve done in the past


You just made me laugh.
wht r u 18 ?

[MillBay]

"You just made me laugh.
wht r u 18 ? "

Most 18 year olds have more on the ball than this guy. CO's would have a field day with a motor mouth like that.

[Phreddy]

if i saw u spreading nails across a trail id slash your tires right in front of u
Ah Jeffrey. I hope it won't disappoint you if your threats are about as scary as your intellect and courtesey in matters other than playing with your crayons.

[Jagermeister]

There's unanimous support at the regional level to make this a Wildlife Act closure instead of a Forest Act closure.

The way the CO explained it to us at FHAC:

Forest Act - he gives the guy a ticket for motorized vehicle in a closed area, guy pays a puny fine, and keeps his sheep strapped on the rack. Fine is easier than packing out his animal, which he can legally keep.

Wildlife Act - he gives the guy a ticket, confiscates his ram, and the guy has a Wildlife Act record for the rest of his life.

Hopefully, Victoria gives thumbs up to the Wildlife Act proposal so that the penalty has some teeth.

I'm the first guy that bitches when access restrictions are in place for anything but conservation. This closure is for conservation reasons, and makes sense, and I support it 100%.Hear! Hear! My sentiments too. That takes care of the hunter.
What takes care of the recreational ATVer, the ones that are out just riding? These are the ones that are most likely to damage the environment. Should the ATV be confiscated?
BCFarmer tells me that the locals and other BC residents disregard the signage and the most recent violaters were from Alberta.
Certainly need some greater consequence to discourage the ones that disregard the closures.

[Jelvis]

I'm sorry to say it but, when you see others you think are doing things wrong, and tell everyone in disgust what you assume in your mind is stoopid and totally wrong.
Your thinking and doing it too or at least think yer going to try it some time.
You see in others what you see in your self and therefore you recognize it and know how that person felt when they did, getting away with something against the norms of the average respected hunter and the regulations of the local government.
You play, you will pay.
Judge not so yourself won't be judged and do what is the "Norm." Of the law abiding hunter and driver of a vehicle is regulated to do in the law.
Jelvis .. We Can't Go On Together with Suspicious Minds .. Police yourself so others won't have to.

[ACE]

It's amazing what a couple of handsful of long gyproc nails spread about on old quad tracks will accomplish. Not that I'm recommending it of course, but hey, these guys are obviously in desperate need of knowledge that sticks. (bad pun)

Cripple an animal with gyproc nails...........anymore good ideas?

[wsm]

here's unanimous support at the regional level to make this a Wildlife Act closure instead of a Forest Act closure.

The way the CO explained it to us at FHAC:

Forest Act - he gives the guy a ticket for motorized vehicle in a closed area, guy pays a puny fine, and keeps his sheep strapped on the rack. Fine is easier than packing out his animal, which he can legally keep.

Wildlife Act - he gives the guy a ticket, confiscates his ram, and the guy has a Wildlife Act record for the rest of his life.

Hopefully, Victoria gives thumbs up to the Wildlife Act proposal so that the penalty has some teeth.

I'm the first guy that bitches when access restrictions are in place for anything but conservation. This closure is for conservation reasons, and makes sense, and I support it 100%.OMG i actually find myself agreeing with FD . WELL SAID

[Remington721]

All the parks people and tree huggers wanna do is take away our fun! Pretty soon we wont be able to ride anywhere!!!

[dmace]

Hey bcfarmer,
I had that draw 2 years ago ,
my brother and I drove to the top road closed sign , parked, got our packs and hiked around for a few days . We had one of the ranchers pass us on a motor bike, when I first heard it coming I was a bit choked ,but he stopped and explained who he was and what he was doing. He wished us luck and off we went. In the next few days 4 different groups of quads drove all over the grasslands on top. I can't say they were hunters as they were not close enough for me to see guns. I was frustrated that we made the effort and others had not . We bumped into the ranchers as they were hearding their cattle off the hill and had a great chat with them ,
seemed like a good bunch ! I was really upset when one of them said in 15 years of hearding cattle off the top of crater , they had seen very few sheep if any . This was the last draw ( I cant recall the exact date ) .
Any how I agree , lets keep the quads and bikes out of closed areas .

[SHAKER]

All the parks people and tree huggers wanna do is take away our fun! Pretty soon we wont be able to ride anywhere!!!

Sorry guy this is the kind of thing the wrecks area's like Crater mnt. I'm not for closures on roads unless their's a valid point to them but Crater definatly is one that NEEDS to be closed. I dont' know how many more millions of miles of road is still driveable in this province but I'm sure you can find a trail to putt around on.

[Goliath]

ive never ever road my quad in a closed area or in the alpine just listening to all the yahoos and no it alls and followers makes me laugh many of u guys are all a bunch of followers too scared to say your true opinion how many u guys drink and drive smoked pot snort coke assualt someone at the pub hit your wife and many other wrong things not sayuingh any of u do but thjeres alota people behind closed doors aint who u think they are so before u say rideing your quad on a closed road is sao bad look back on some of the things youve done in the past


Please....PLEASE bang out another post on your Fisher Price keyboard with your monkey fists. I can hardly wait to read your dribble!

[fowl language]

i understand that a bunch of guys are getting together to buy spike strip,s for up there,that should fix the problem.....fowl

[David Heitsman]

We had the Crater side sheep draw three years ago and had ridden up as far as was allowed and then hiked up to the crater only to be met at the top by another group of sheep hunters on their ATV's. I politely informed then that they were clearly in an area that was restricted to ATV use. They eased on down the mountain at our request without an issue.

The next spring the fella stopped by our booth at the BC hunting show in Abbotsford with pics of the ram he'd shot later that morning just down the hill in the trees from where we'd talked to him and well within the ATV allowed area!

Of course we spent four days in there and couldn't find a ram.

Go figure...

[Remington721]

"Sorry guy this is the kind of thing the wrecks area's like Crater mnt. I'm not for closures on roads unless their's a valid point to them but Crater definatly is one that NEEDS to be closed. I dont' know how many more millions of miles of road is still driveable in this province but I'm sure you can find a trail to putt around on".


I not saying crater should be open but kobau mountain as an example, before the mudslide there you could drive across from oliver to osoyoos or other way around. I talked to a park ranger the other day and she said they r never gonna rebuild that bridge. Y? there is no reason we arent allowed up there. They just dont want us up there!

[835]

I not saying crater should be open but kobau mountain as an example, before the mudslide there you could drive across from oliver to osoyoos or other way around. I talked to a park ranger the other day and she said they r never gonna rebuild that bridge. Y? there is no reason we arent allowed up there. They just dont want us up there!


There are a tonne of places like that in BC, Closures with no point. And they make me mad too, But they are not the ones that this thread was started for. This thread was started about Crater. And it is an old closure it isnt a " They just keep pushing us out" closure. That mountain cannot handle the abuse it is getting. It never used to see that abuse. Trust me when i say i believev everyone should have a place to hike, hunt, ride, 4x4 whatever but Crater is not that place. I deal with people pushing 4x4 ers out all the time, We all know Van Isle is horrible for that.

[Jelvis]

I keep telling you people but you just can't wrap your mind all the way around it.
So we have two problems one the problem is mission impossible or your mind is too small to go around it.
I know which one I wood pick lol.
If you have access it will be used, all year around.
Take access out go back to slope and no one can get in on a road that your all wining about lol, cheese with that whine? lol.
If you hang around a barber shop sooner or later your going to get a haircut.
If you have a road in driving condition going up any mountain, someone will drive it.
Accept and move on your beating a dead horse. lol.
If there is a trail wide enuff for a atv, someone will use it for an atv.
If there is no trail, he or she can't use it. lol.
Jel .. If you have an old old road still useable some one will use it to drive on.
.. What do you get when you cross a genius with a pine tree? Albert Pine-stien!

[Redfrog]

The more things change, the more they don't change. Idiots abound. Better get used to it or figure out some retroactive birth control.

In the very early 70's I hunted the Ashnola with horse. No atv's then it was a few years later before we saw trikes.

On one hunt we took the horses up the first road after the bridge on the Ashnola. There was a gate there with a chain and a padlock. 30 minutes after we passed that gate a truck came roaring up behind us. I asked the driver how they got passed the locked gate? It wasn't locked, someone must have taken the lock off.

Roared to the end of the road and then back down again. Hunting you know.

[Farmer]

I have hunted this area off and on for almost 40 years. In fact I shot my first deer up near the top of Crater mtn. It is a nice place to hike and get away from the noise of motors without having to backpack in. You could drive up to the flat by the old cabin and camp on somewhere before the vehicle closures and you could be anywhere on the hill in 2 or 3 hours on foot. I have nothing against ATVs, but they are not needed here. IMHO the guide shouldn't be allowed to use them up there either, but then he would probably just hire the helicopter to stir things up instead.

[curt]

WELL JEFF I wont say I completely agree with your veiw but I will say I respect a man who isnt afraid to beat his own drum and voice is own true opinion. It is refreshing to hear people stand up against the crowd and speak their mind!

[steel_ram]

WELL JEFF I wont say I completely agree with your veiw but I will say I respect a man who isnt afraid to beat his own drum and voice is own true opinion. It is refreshing to hear people stand up against the crowd and speak their mind!

Only if they do it like an adult and not some juvenile school yard thug.

[Phreddy]

Only if they do it like an adult and not some juvenile school yard thug.

Amen to that.

[hawkeye]

he didn't act like a "school yard thug" that would mean picking on someone for no reason.he clearly stated he would confront someone causing deliberate vandalism,not the definition of a bully.and that said,i agree we need areas off limits to motor vehicles in certain areas,esp. alpine areas.With driving past inform them or report them.

[The Dude]

Hey bcfarmer,
I had that draw 2 years ago ,
my brother and I drove to the top road closed sign , parked, got our packs and hiked around for a few days . We had one of the ranchers pass us on a motor bike, when I first heard it coming I was a bit choked ,but he stopped and explained who he was and what he was doing. He wished us luck and off we went. In the next few days 4 different groups of quads drove all over the grasslands on top. I can't say they were hunters as they were not close enough for me to see guns. I was frustrated that we made the effort and others had not . We bumped into the ranchers as they were hearding their cattle off the hill and had a great chat with them ,
seemed like a good bunch ! I was really upset when one of them said in 15 years of hearding cattle off the top of crater , they had seen very few sheep if any . This was the last draw ( I cant recall the exact date ) .
Any how I agree , lets keep the quads and bikes out of closed areas .

Yeah Dean, and we saw so many sheep we ended up drinking all your beers after an early hunt! LOL
Yeah, my buddy had that hunt too, and we bumped into Dean and his Brother. Great guys. Had a nice chat about the Quads up there driving through the woods around the NO ATV Signs, and none of us saw so much as a ewe. A long anticipated draw for nothing. There were camps up top with broken burned lawnchairs, ATV tracks, human crap everywhere. What an absolute disappointment that hunt was.
Beautiful hiking.
No sheep. (Lotsa grouse though! :-) )

[Phreddy]

I have hunted this area off and on for almost 40 years. In fact I shot my first deer up near the top of Crater mtn. It is a nice place to hike and get away from the noise of motors without having to backpack in. You could drive up to the flat by the old cabin and camp on somewhere before the vehicle closures and you could be anywhere on the hill in 2 or 3 hours on foot. I have nothing against ATVs, but they are not needed here. IMHO the guide shouldn't be allowed to use them up there either, but then he would probably just hire the helicopter to stir things up instead.

Well put Farmer. I sometimes feel we're having a battle of wits with some unarmed opponents.

[ravensfoot]

At least the camps are clean since I was up there last on Oct 24th 2011.
here's the signs, hard to miss. Only thing is, we hiked the KM up the road only to find a group of 4 quadders that some how neglected to read the sign.
Should have seen their face when 2 hunters snuck out of the forest right near them.

http://www.ravensfoot.com/hunting/pics/IMG_5191-10.jpg

[dmace]

Thanks for the pics Ravensfoot !
those signs have been upgraded since I was there last. Perhaps big brother is watching ??
Dean

[SHAKER]

At least the camps are clean since I was up there last on Oct 24th 2011.
here's the signs, hard to miss. Only thing is, we hiked the KM up the road only to find a group of 4 quadders that some how neglected to read the sign.
Should have seen their face when 2 hunters snuck out of the forest right near them.

http://www.ravensfoot.com/hunting/pics/IMG_5191-10.jpg

LOL....... pretty clear that the trail is CLOSED! Even some pictures for the illetterate and those that dont' speak english. No excuse now and the CO's have big rubbery one for trying to get guys in the closed area's lately.

[ravensfoot]

maybe an unlocked, spring loaded gate with a sign that says if you go beyond this point you may be charged. Physically opening a gate would be hard to dispute when caught up there.

[SHAKER]

If you can't read the above signs you probably shouldn't have been allowed to drive your truck to the base of the mountain to unload your quad.

[shelg]

Some people truly don't understand why there are vehicle restriction. Ignorant people and I don't intend that to be mean. They are just not informed for the reasons of the closures, delicate soils, erosion, habitat protection, noxious weed control, vandalism. Then there is the people that don't care. This is why private landowners don't like people on their land. We have protected areas in Kamloops. Here is a news paper article from 2010.

***Kamloops Daily News***

" A dirt biker caught riding in a protected area of the Lac Du Bois grasslands was convicted in Kamloops traffic court Monday and fined $230.

Lawrence Popein was ticketed by the Kamloops conservation service after he was spotted by a park ranger in May 2010 riding his dirt bike on the north side of Long Lake Road. The area is closed to off-road vehicles.

Popein pleaded not guilty, arguing in court there was not enough signs in the area to properly notify off-road users about the grassland closures.

Conservation officer Tobe Sprado said there are many signs in the area, as well as numerous concrete no-posts blocking access to the protected area on the north side of the road.

There is an area on the south end of the grasslands where off-road use is permitted. The off-road closures in other areas of the park were put in place, he noted, to protect the sensitive grasslands from environmental destruction.

Dirt bikes and ATVs can disrupt the fragile grassland crust, causing long-term damage to natural bunch grasses and allowing noxious weeds to take root.

In the end, justice of the peace Joan Hughes ruled ignorance of the law is no excuse as she found Popein guilty of the Wildlife Act offence.

Sprado said off-road use in the Lac Du Bois protected areas has been a persistent problem.

“The closure is there to protect the grasslands and wildlife species — from deer and mountain sheep to burrowing owls,” he said. “We are taking a more hard-line approach to enforcement in those areas.”

I feel your pain BCFarmer, good luck!

[SHAKER]

Good just too bad the fine is that low...... might be worth the gamble to some people to be hunting all by yourself and don't have to lift a foot for it.

[thumper1]

Better find a way of solving the problem, or the people lobbying for a national park will win - and then quadders, hunters, ranchers and guides all lose!
Thanks BCFarmer for attempting a solution.