Stopping bears fast!!

[Ambush]

Here is an interesting article from Alaska. Two things in the write up may surprise many people.
Here's the link:

http://redoubtreporter.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/dispatched-%E2%80%94-lewis-gets-the-call-to-solve-problem-of-wounded-bears/

[Big Lew]

When a Brother and I were teenagers, we did some tests with slugs, and ssg at approx. 25 yards. The ssg spread out to about a foot and went right through the side of an old car wreck. We were told it was lethal for deer out to 90 yards, so we shot the same car at that range, and the lead had spread out enough to almost cover half of the small car, with the pellets almost penetrating the side metal. Probably would be lethal if it hit vitals, but would pepper too much of the animal.
The slugs blew right through the car at 25 yards, and into the car at 90 yards, and almost made it through the other door. Shooting slugs into old, hardened planks would blow the boards apart,(lots of fun). Slugs sure would be my choice to stop anything at close range, that's for sure.

[olharley guy]

Howdy, interesting article. I have never had a grizzly lie in ambush and wait for me but it seems to happen once in awhile if it isn't a well placed shot.

Clayton Mack's books mention it a few times.

As there are a lot of bears in Alaska they probably do destroy more motherless cubs without a great amount of hassle from all the animal lover groups.

I guess there is only so many zoo's that could take them at any one time.

Again good article-thanks for posting. Later

[olharley guy]

Howdy again, as Big Lew stated slugs are very lethal. In one of the Alaska Bear Tales books he wrote about a test done by Alaska Fish and Wildlife - it was a comparison on slugs versus ssg type bullets.

At different yardages the slug would penetrate the skull of a brown bear everytime where the pellets would sort of roll up in any fat under the skin.

Had occasion to test this once in my yard in the Yukon-at about 20 yards coming head on-instantly went down. Not a Grizzly but a 6'6-6'8 brown black bear - made a believer of me. Later

[Ambush]

Two things stood out to me. First, of course, was the use of a pump slug gun, rather than any of the popular "big bore" stoppers.
Second was that the other fellow was using the dreaded and un-reliable semi-auto. Too bad it didn't mention the model or caliber.

[BromBones]

Two things stood out to me. First, of course, was the use of a pump slug gun, rather than any of the popular "big bore" stoppers.


Pump shotguns are nice for being able to keep the gun at your shoulder, and on target, for a follow up shot. Your trigger hand stays firm on the grip and ready on the trigger, and the straight push/pull to cycle the action keeps the gun planted firmly to the shoulder. I think with bolt and even lever guns, a lot of guys have a natural tendency to want to drop the rifle away from their shoulder to cycle the action, as well you have to use your trigger hand to cycle the action. Pump gun feels like a more natural motion.

Good read, thanks for posting. I'd like to BS with that fellow over a whisky and a campfire, he'd have some stories for sure.

[BuckEye]

Had a look at the Remington 870's available after this read. Any thoughts to which this guy is likely using for his "short range" defence needs.
Have a new author to look for at the book store now as well.

[Jagermeister]

I think that you folks missed the most important point, that being that the slug they use is Brenneke. These slugs are more like sabots than the slugs you find in the North American brands which nobody in Alaska would consider pumping into a big brown.
A fellow from Alaska put me onto them and I tried to get his supplier in Arizona to send me some, that was before 9/11. The Arizona source gave me a Canadian importer and I was able to convince Larry Keis to acquire and keep stock, but since Larry's demise, I have no idea where one may get them now.
Here is a link that illustrates and describes Brenneke slugs
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Brenneke.jpg/250px-Brenneke.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug&usg=__VUDoOHKrmkceL_RMhuPjUFCXIv0=&h=92&w=250&sz=9&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=XNM0KrzeYPK11M:&tbnh=41&tbnw=111&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbrenneke%2Bslugs%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%2 6biw%3D995%26bih%3D553%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&ei=NmgmTuveMsmugQfnkblc

[Big Lew]

Don't know what gun they were using, but the one I used was an old pump 12 ga. ethica. If I kept my finger on the trigger, it would fire as soon as the next shell finished being pumped into the chamber. It actually was a nuisance when bird hunting because I had to make sure my finger wasn't depressing the trigger when pumping.

[Gateholio]

No surprise to me...I've been blah blah blahing about Brenneke slugs for years. I've done all sorts of tests with Brennekes, foster style "rifled" slugs and buckshot, and the best by far is the Brenneke. Buckshot is poor, unless you are trying to limit overpenetration on non targets.

[Red_Mist]

Just a question, wouldn't a lever action rifle in say 45-70 be just as effective? Similar size firearm to the shotgun, speed should be the same as a pump and can load up to say 400g. Not saying there is anything wrong with the shotgun.

[Singleshotneeded]

What store here is carrying the Brenneke slugs, haven't seen them...

[.330 Dakota]

Seems that there are always a lot of BEAR STOPPER THREADS, can anyone on here tell me if they have ever been charged by a Griz and actually had to shoot it. How often does this really happen? I have had the good fortune of encountering several G-bears while hunting and they always just looked at me and walked or ran away.

[835]

So i guess i was right, 12Ga loaded with slugs is better then a 45/70 :)

[35 Whelen]

I have taught bear defense for a number of years as a firearms training officer. Slugs are THE ONLY WAY to go. Anyone who advocates the use of bird shot first followed by SSG or OO buck, has never shot a really large bear. They are built like tanks, and penetration is the only way you are going to break down a large angry animal. Shot is only going to endanger the shooter and piss the bear off even further. Remove the plug from your 870 and use the best slug you can. 3" with 1 1/2 ounce slugs if you can. And keep shooting until the bear is down and no longer a threat. Too many times I see guys shoot and look for a reaction from the bear. As long as he is on his feet he is a threat and then some...shoot til he is dead.

[Salty]

Just a question, wouldn't a lever action rifle in say 45-70 be just as effective? Similar size firearm to the shotgun, speed should be the same as a pump and can load up to say 400g. Not saying there is anything wrong with the shotgun.

I'm going to guess its about standard issue gear. The COs in BC for instance get a pistol, an 870 12 ga and a bolt action rifle of some sort. I bet its a similar deal in Alaska. And after years of working with the standard issue slug gun which works just fine..no need to spend your own $$ on a big bore lever gun which isn't really any better for the task at hand.

[olharley guy]

Seems that there are always a lot of BEAR STOPPER THREADS, can anyone on here tell me if they have ever been charged by a Griz and actually had to shoot it. How often does this really happen? I have had the good fortune of encountering several G-bears while hunting and they always just looked at me and walked or ran away.

Howdy, yes 2X for Grizz both stopped with 300 w.mag one was just a lucky hit at about 10'0 in buck brush. Later

[srupp]

hmmmm agree with Gate..there are some trees up Kwatna that are 'shot down" using a shotgun and slugs...the shotgun defensive course by Gary James Sheldon advocates slugs..and regular stock no pistol grip.. had several incidents...worked well for me..one big black bear also..

cheers
Steven

[coquitlam]

and regular stock no pistol grip..

cheers
Steven

I agree with srupp ,pistol grip is for the movies . I practice with my slug gun and you need a regular stock to keep the gun under control especially in a bad situation. You are also going to need that wrist for cleanup after a charge.

[Big Lew]

I agree with srupp ,pistol grip is for the movies . I practice with my slug gun and you need a regular stock to keep the gun under control especially in a bad situation. You are also going to need that wrist for cleanup after a charge.

I agree....especially with the last sentence, and lots of bunnies!

[srupp]

lol 2 Big Lew.....

another piece of "advice is" once you have your shotgun ready..DO NOT KEEP STRIPCLEANING IT IN CAMP>>

I did this several years ago... 2 or 3??? sure as shit we got charged..8+ foot momma G bear with 2 juvinile delinquent miscreants for off spring..had to draw the shotgun..it was semi out of the case laying beside the chair where 3 of us were glassing..she came full bore with 2 x 250-300 pound along for the run..

3 of us drew up on the charging momma...one was shooting 400gr from a .416?? the second was shooting 300?? and I had the shot gun..well at the last moment she turned..and all that was ruined were Stanfields...

HOWEVER a few days later in going to shoot the shotgun....in fun..... I pulled back on the trigger..NOTHING...I tried again...nada by now I was flinching and closing my eyes..fully expecting the entire weapon to explode in my face.. was it defective ammo?? wtf??

When taking the shotgun apart I failed (me, myself and also I ) tothred the barrell retainer cap down far enough hence rendering the shotgun incapable of firing....looking back sure gladd Momma decided to veer off south at 30 paces.. cuz I sure would have been SHOCKED..at the lack of any usable weapon in my hands..never ever do THAT TRICK AGAIN..

Also feel the 870 is a better shotgun than whet i am using..

cheers

Steven

[Peter Pepper]

Seems that there are always a lot of BEAR STOPPER THREADS, can anyone on here tell me if they have ever been charged by a Griz and actually had to shoot it. How often does this really happen? I have had the good fortune of encountering several G-bears while hunting and they always just looked at me and walked or ran away.

Yah they almost always just run. Yup, almost always...in my experiance only about 3-5% try to kill ya, so yah why even worry about it. snicker

[madrona sh]

I vote the Maverick 88 the best bear defence shotgun in the world.

[srupp]

hmmm I really APPRECIATED the EXELLENT advice by 35 WHELAN...read it several times and it is right on...

well done..

cheers
Steven

[Telkwa Hunter]

While on this topic: What is the general consensus on the Hornady Leverevolution 45/70 325grn. ?