Public Access to FSR on Private Land

[Belle]

Has anyone heard of the out come of the access to Stump Lake on Douglas Lake Ranch. I remember a few weeks ago an number of anglers were trying to get access to the lake on the basis that the road that goes to the lake was and\or is a Provincial FSR and shold then be open to the public.

If they (anglers) won that dispute then what about the Pink Mountain road that goes through the Blueberry Bands Ranch, which is a FSR and the band charges an access fee to hunters?? I believe is it still fee simple land and not part of the band's reserve.

[gbear]

which is a FSR

The road is not an FSR

[Brett]

you cannot trespass to get to an area. There are lots of spots where an access road is punched through private land to get behind it,

[Big Lew]

Could that have been the "Minnie Lake" dispute?

[recoil]

I think it was Minnie and Stony lake that were the issue, i believe Stump can still be accessed from the old highway rest stop. I have fished these lakes and they are shallow and full of nasty algae in the summer along with plenty of horse and cattle feces. There are some big fish but it's not my idea of fun, kind of a big private trout pond but i was their for a family reunion so i brought my rod, i wouldnt pay to go back, better (and cleaner) fish elsewhere.

[Lone Ranger]

Either which way, that doesn't surprise me about Douglas Lk Ranch.. LR

[budismyhorse]

if a band up north is charging for access through their land........I don't think they will give a pinch of shhhh....salt what happens down in Douglas Lake...

no offense :)

[recoil]

Has anyone actually fished Stump lately? I have been meaning to try it out but have not had time. I have heard rumors of 8lb trout and 4lb kokanee as well as a new strain of cutthroat that can reach 10lbs:

http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20110502/KAMLOOPS0107/110429777/-1/kamloops/

[Torch]

Isn't stoney privately stocked? If my less than stellar memory recalls. they even lomit the number of people who can fish it each day...This was around 199x, I was down their visiting a friend that worked there at the time...nice place, weird being on private land as far as you can see...

[Jelvis]

The guy that owns the Douglas ranch owns an NBA and an NFL franchise team and uses the lakes and ranch houses with cook shack and all the extras for players to fish and anyone he wants, and that ain't you or me.
Jel .. He'll have you escorted off thee proper tay my friend .. it ain't worth it!

[Livewire322]

is douglas lake the one that the guy keeps having his HELP harassing people with fireworks or something when they are fishing?
and the guy doesnt even own the lakes/ the roads that are around it or does he?

[Jelvis]

That is biggest working ranch in B.C. that one fella owns it all and he lives in the u s of a., any lake, pond or puddle on his ranch is his. There are monster mule deer on his ranch too but again this fella has more money than the country of Italy right now.
These people from Merritt are jealous and are green with envy and can't figure it out, Go somewhere else, there are lot's of lakes to fish in Merritt without trespassing.
Jelly .. Find another spot for now and let him and his staff and guests enjoy his paradise
imho

[Livewire322]

how can you own a lake does he have the water rights? the lake im thinking of supposedly has the best fishing in BC? i dunno sounds like a lot of bullshit to me. damn yankee should take a hike.

[Big Lew]

Prior to Minnie Lake being closed to the public, I fished there several times. The fishing could be very good at that time. The last time there, I had a chat with Joe Gardner, and he explained why they were leaning toward closing it to the public. He said that because the lake was out in the open, and many people fishing and camping there were not careful with their garbage, the wind was blowing it all over the grazing areas, not only leaving an unsightly mess, but cattle were ingesting some of it. Compounding his concern, many were camping outside of the designated campsite despite signage forbidding it. He said they erected fences in an effort to contain the debris, along with signs warning if it wasn't kept clean it would be closed, but the garbage etc. continued. (I personally saw the mess he was describing, and it was very bad)

[Livewire322]

i dont know why i care about this i havent fished there probably never will but it just pisses me right off when few people ruin it for others.
also dont like people that come to our fine country and close areas to us in mass amounts.

[Jelvis]

Ranchers think they own the whole earth with the lakes too, they are the suppliers of food to the nations and were sent here by heavenly beings to bless the world, therefore they buy up all the hectares of ranch land for themselves, to share with only those who look up to them and beg them to access this private area.
Some bring gifts and talk at great lengths to have an hour on a lake full of fish and no one else on it.
So get to know the rancher good or his top honcho and do some sweet talkin.
Jel .. Land owner has the first and last say .. they are the alpha and the omega ....lol

[recoil]

I believe the gate is also due to liability, when we were there we had to sign waivers immediately upon arrival declaring that we would not sue DLR if we had a traffic accident on any of their private roads or if their horses or cattle chewed on our parked vehicles. It was recommended we park them inside closed paddocks only. Anyone renting out the the ranch house could fish the lake no gifts required although boat rentals were extra, this was 2 years ago. Judging by the guest book about half the visitors to the lake were americans.

[srupp]

Id rather fish forest lake, Owen lake, Sheridan lake,Fire Lake, and many more....

way overhyped..

MHO

steven

[brazen]

Has anybody had any experience with changing a landowner's mind through the BCFW Outdoor Passport program?

BC Wildlife Federation - Outdoor Passport
http://bcwf.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=224&Itemid=269
BCWF has established a program to help BCWF members acquire permission to access and hunt on private lands. The Outdoor Passport Program provides an orientation on private land access obligations and requires participants to agree to the terms and conditions of the program. To download the Outdoor Passport news release and backgounder, click here (http://www.huntingbc.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=410&Itemid=738).
Access to private land or across private lands to crown land has been a longstanding issue with individuals and land owners. Availability to private lands varies around the province depending on the land owners risk evaluation and how they manage the determined risk. At this point there is very limited public access to private lands.

[Big Lew]

When I was last there, prior to having to pay, my talk with Joe Gardner was on another matter, but it was pretty obvious that his Boss, as well as He, would like to close all of their holdings, as well as extensive government leased lands, to the public. When you consider how many thousands of hectares of B.C. this involves, on this particular situation, I have to agree with some of "Jelvis's dissenting and abhorrent remarks of disdain.

[CanuckShooter]

how can you own a lake does he have the water rights? the lake im thinking of supposedly has the best fishing in BC? i dunno sounds like a lot of bullshit to me. damn yankee should take a hike.

He doesn't own the lake...they own all the land surrounding it so unless your coming in on a chopper, or hot air balloon, you'd be trespassing to get to it. I seriously doubt it's the best fishing lake in BC, but sometimes when your told you cannot do something it only makes the idea of doing it all that much sweeter.

[brazen]

Has anybody had any experience with changing a landowner's mind through the BCFW Outdoor Passport program?

hmm...never mind...I just got my registration card for this in the mail, based on my 'passport' number being OP-26, I am thinking I might be only the 26th person to apply for this...?

[Jelvis]

You could have bought that whole ranch a decade ago when this fella bot it. He came up with several mill and dropped it like it's hot. Cash on the barrel head.
He owns one team in the NFL and one in the NBA plus half the world so you and I ain't going to get close to Mr. Big.
If I wanted to fish or hunt there so bad like you gice n gurls I'd find away to do it.
Jel and ( Remember if you try to break my wings If you try to steal my dreams)
You will never free your name from the iron chains of Jel) My curse will be your PAIN!
:evil: Your goin Nucking Futs lol .. the best 4 me and u .. seize yah @ Doogies Pond .....

[antileno]

Since fisheries started stocking the non reproducing trout there are hundreds of lakes around that offer bigger fish with free camping lucky for DLR's guests they don't know that or they have enough money and just don't give a damn. DLR also releases over a thousand pheasants each year and offer guided pheasant hunts in there fields for a hefty sum. Lots of places in this province just as nice or nicer than DLR to hunt or fish at so i don't see what the big deal is.

[Belle]

Wow has this thread gone off in another direction around DLR. My original quirey is around accessing FSR that go through private property, which many do throughout the provice and if the private land owners can deny you access or charge you a fee to cross their property. DLR is one example where it is claimed that the road once was designated a FSR and was maintain by the province and should be open to the public to travel. The Blue Berrry Ranch and the bison hunts maybe of the same question, though one member claims that it is not a FSR which runs through it but the way it is listed on all maps it could read as even being a gazetted road and open to all. If someone has some legal back ground regarding roads, property rights and public access rights could jump in maybe they can clear up or muddy up the issue more.

[Livewire322]

my grandparents bought property in Savona years like 5 years ago, the owner before them sold the property to them as 3/4 of an acre with a shed and the building that is now their house.
they later found out that the bottom 1/3 of the lot was crown land that the original owner had built a crushed cement wall around the lot and filled it with dirt and then claimed it as his own...
the real-estate agents both my grandparents and the owners didnt ever mention this problem... so my grandparents took him to court for the money that the land was valued at, and won but he refused to pay even after a court order so my grandparents dropped the case.
my mother bought the crown land so now the family owns the whole lot.

we later learned the original owner went and bought property elsewhere in region 3 and closed a FS road that ran across it even though it was a FSR.
so he and hunters that had used the road for years got into an altercation, a lady got out of her truck with a loaded rifle and was yelling at the owner when the guy SLUGGED her and she fell down hitting the buttstock of her rifle on the ground which caused an ND. the bullet stuck the man in the leg which he later lost in hospital...
call it karma or coincidence but when you **** with people it catches up.

anyways that was kind of off topic but it seemed relevant when i started typing...

[Jelvis]

Ask about the rancher that got killed at Hat Creek area a few years back, told some local hunters they couldn't go down "his road anymore." Well the fellas had hunted on that road in for decades and just blew a casket right there, BOOM!
On the top of the east side of the Fraser going north along the ridge and this guy got into an argument over closing it down to the locals. He's pushin up daisies right now.
Some people go ballistic over access issues. Be careful when your PRIDE get's in the way.
Jp .. You said what? .. Now it starts .. then the middle part then .. The End.
.................................................. ....................Head 2 Head ...............

[jimzuk]

Hey Livewire. Did that fellow close a road just past Deadman's creek? There was a spot there we hunted for years until the new owner closed it off.
Just wondering if it was the same spot.

[jackychiles]

DLR tried to block access ( by locking a gate) to some other lakes ( buck lake...etc) off the Coq between Elkhart and the Aspen grove turnoff a few years back. I used to fish this area a ton before it became popular. I think it also had something to do with logging but the full story was never told to me. There was a sign from the DLR posted at the gate. Well the lock lasted a week from what I could tell. The sign was removed...etc. This is a forest service road. The ranch has grazing rights on th crown land from what I am told. So what really happenned ? I don't know but I think they were not allowed to block access to a FSR.

Now if the ranch owns the land around the lake I was told that you could helecopter onto the lake as they don't own the water but not drive through their land. Maybe someone else knows better but that is what I was told. I also know a guy who was chased off a lake by helecopter....

Aa for Minnie, I use to ( 15+ years ago mind you) get a free fish on that lake once a year at the end of April. Cold as hell but the fish were huge. We would catch many fish in the 8+ lbs mark. I look back at that and recall it being some of the best lake fishing in my life.

[Jagermeister]

Hey Livewire. Did that fellow close a road just past Deadman's creek? There was a spot there we hunted for years until the new owner closed it off.
Just wondering if it was the same spot.I think the one Livewire is referring to happened over at Westwold.

[Jagermeister]

You should find this an interesting and enlightening read. Bear in mind that it was written by Ms. MacGregor in 1993 and there most likely have been some changes on issues of trepass since then.
http://www.marymacgregor.ca/article-93d.asp
In most cases, Indian Reserves are the property of the Crown although the Crown allows all Bands free reign when it comes to dealing with the Band's specific reserves. With this in mind, the Blueberry Band is within it's rights to charge the access fee.
I vaguely remember some paper that was circulated years ago, maybe by the BCWF, on Crown Grants regarding bodies of water. What I recollect is that there were three lakes that were covered under the C/Gs that gave exclusive use to the Grantees. One was for the Douglas Lake Ranch, and I am not sure if that was for Minnie Lake or Douglas Lake. One other was west of Summerland and this may be Isontok Lake. The third was in the Chilcotin and probably was granted to the Gang Ranch.

[fireguy]

Think of DLR and their lakes this way, they own the water rights, they own the fish (they put them there) and they own the land around the lakes.
Is it OK for me to pole vault into your back yard and take all the fruit off your trees because I want it, after all, I flew over your land and landed in your tree, so I should be able to take what I want.
There is lots of other lakes, go fish them

[Jelvis]

The fella that owns the DLranch is a gahzillionair and probably uses the ranch as a tax right off, no profit so use the loss for costs and no taxes on the bizz.
Tax on land tho and the leases he has on every hectare from douglas lake in reg 3 all the way over to 8 and over to Roche Lake, this guy kicks ass.
I told yah he owns an NFL team and the NBA team as well, and let's those southerners come up on holidays from the states b4 and after the season. On his ranch resort.:-D
So remember if your fishing where you shouldn't and you hear someone calling you to come over, do not attempt to run, cuz those football players will chase you down and tackle yah for the boss.
Jella peeno .. Go to Reno

[Jagermeister]

"The guy that owns the Douglas ranch owns an NBA and an NFL franchise team and uses the lakes and ranch houses with cook shack and all the extras for players to fish and anyone he wants, and that ain't you or me.
Jel .. He'll have you escorted off thee proper tay my friend .. it ain't worth it! "

"You could have bought that whole ranch a decade ago when this fella bot it. He came up with several mill and dropped it like it's hot. Cash on the barrel head. He owns one team in the NFL and one in the NBA plus half the world so you and I ain't going to get close to Mr. Big. If I wanted to fish or hunt there so bad like you gice n gurls I'd find away to do it. Jel and ( Remember if you try to break my wings If you try to steal my dreams) You will never free your name from the iron chains of Jel) My curse will be your PAIN! :evil: Your goin Nucking Futs lol .. the best 4 me and u .. seize yah @ Doogies Pond ..... "

"The fella that owns the DLranch is a gahzillionair and probably uses the ranch as a tax right off, no profit so use the loss for costs and no taxes on the bizz. Tax on land tho and the leases he has on every hectare from douglas lake in reg 3 all the way over to 8 and over to Roche Lake, this guy kicks ass. I told yah he owns an NFL team and the NBA team as well, and let's those southerners come up on holidays from the states b4 and after the season. On his ranch resort.:grin: So remember if your fishing where you shouldn't and you hear someone calling you to come over, do not attempt to run, cuz those football players will chase you down and tackle yah for the boss.

Jella peeno .. Go to Reno "

We sure got that idea now, thank you!

[Livewire322]

Think of DLR and their lakes this way, they own the water rights, they own the fish (they put them there) and they own the land around the lakes.
Is it OK for me to pole vault into your back yard and take all the fruit off your trees because I want it, after all, I flew over your land and landed in your tree, so I should be able to take what I want.
There is lots of other lakes, go fish them

theres a difference between a fruit tree and a lake... i own my fruit trees, does he own the water rights to the lake? because if he does then its the same concept if not then... he can stick it where the sun dont shine.