270 Cartridge Question [Archive]

bigwhiteys

08-26-2006, 05:11 PM

Stay as far away from nosler partitions as possible.

Without getting too longwinded they don't leave big holes and the partition will explode on impact. Thoroughly unimpressed would be an understatement.
I you don't believe me take it from the outfitters. I know the Lancaster's won't let their hunters bring NPs to camp and neither will Thompkins from what I've been told. I also met an outfitter from Africa who curses their performance.

You're better off buying the low-grade stuff than shooting partitions.

My dad says the same, Nosler partitions are great for accuracy but they wouldn't allow hunters to use them on game. Sierra boat tail is the bullet my Dad swears by and I've never killed an animal with anything different!

Happy Hunting!
Carl

jessbennett

08-26-2006, 05:26 PM

uhmmm......... stay away from partitions???:shock: :confused: never EVER had a problem with nosler partitions.... and exploding??? partitions have always held together AWSOME and always retain most of their weight...... ballistic tips on the other hand........

Onesock

08-26-2006, 05:36 PM

Partitions are some of the best bullets made.

Schmaus

08-26-2006, 06:27 PM

Stay as far away from nosler partitions as possible.

What a silly thing to say.

kutenay

08-26-2006, 08:21 PM

In Sept. 2003, I booked with Barry Thompkins for one of his resident hunts; as usual when I go hunting in northern B.C. or at home in the Kootenays in the early season, I took one of my pairs of .338 Win. rifles loaded with 250 NPs over RE-22. Thompkins NEVER said ANYTHING to me, either on the phone while booking the hunt or when I met him at Little Prairie about my choice of rifle type, cartridge OR bullet make/style. So, what GG heard may/may not be factual as "hearsay" can be erroneous.

I have shot a few dozen animals with Nosler PT bullets since 1968 and friends of mine have shot scores more that I have witnessed. I have yet to see a failure or even a lost animal with ANY Nosler PT on ANY game. For quite a few years, I worked many of the most isolated fire lookouts in both B.C. and Alberta, from 3 to 5.5 months alone in the bush in Grizzly areas and I used several different rifles as work guns; during this time, colleagues shot several Grizzlies and I had a number of close-range encounters, each time NPs were used and did the job, so, I had and have confidence in them.

This is NOT intended to disparage ANYONE, but, I have now loaded NPs into more than 100 big game rifles of my own and about a score for others. I have NEVER heard of a failure or a rupture of the partition, although it probably has happened. I load for rifles from my .243 to my .375 using NPs and have about 2000+ rounds on hand, they work for me and I am not about to change, now.

There are other good bullets nowadays, but, when I was young, the NP was THE bullet and everybody loaded it, especially for Elk and Grizzly. I would be interested in facts about NP failures, if anyone has such info.

Hank Hunter

08-26-2006, 08:37 PM

Stay as far away from nosler partitions as possible.

Without getting too longwinded they don't leave big holes and the partition will explode on impact. Thoroughly unimpressed would be an understatement.
I you don't believe me take it from the outfitters. I know the Lancaster's won't let their hunters bring NPs to camp and neither will Thompkins from what I've been told. I also met an outfitter from Africa who curses their performance.

You're better off buying the low-grade stuff than shooting partitions.

WOW!!!! never heard such trash. Nosler Partitions are the standard that every premium bullet has either copied or used as a level of dependability and consistency. They very rarely if ever dynamite or explode. They are known for holding together and penetrating.
Perhaps someone is confusing partitions with ballistic tips

Will

08-26-2006, 08:56 PM

Perhaps someone is confusing partitions with ballistic tips
I think you've hit the Nail on the head;)
Nosler "Ballistic tips" are well known for thier accuracy But do tend to "fragment" on impact when pushed fast or shots are close, they are best suited to deer or smaller critters where deep penetration isn't necessary.

Nosler "Partitions" set the Standard for Lead core Hunting bullets and still do what they are designed to do....mushroom at the nose but retain the solid base for Deep penetration. They perform......Period8-)

GoatGuy

08-26-2006, 09:39 PM

I figured this would get a couple guys upset.

If you guys have had success with them and have been impressed then stick with them.

I heard Thompkins wouldn't let them in from a bud who guided for him. He's also guided for a few of the other well known outfitters - he isn't a fan of NPs. I must say a resident hunt is also a lot different then a $20K guided stone hunt.

I'm usually in on 10-15 big game animals/year (a lot more if I'm guiding) and have yet to see an animal knocked down by NPs. I've also found scattered fragments of lead in all animals shot with NPs. They don't carry the knockdown power that even cheap bullets seem to have.

I have several friends who hunt or guide 300+ days per year. They're in on more kills in one season than 99% of hunters are in a lifetime. They guide all over North America including governor tags for sheep and grizz in alaska. NONE OF THEM WILL HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH NPs. It's that simple.

Like I said if you like your NPs then all the power to you; an opinion was asked and I gave mine. If you disagree that's fine, you're entitled.

jessbennett

08-26-2006, 09:57 PM

Oh i see, a 20k trophy hunt is much different than a resident hunt.?no it is not. :roll: maybe it has alot to do with pi$$ poor shot placement by the people who are paying for the 20 thousand dollar "trophy hunt". ..........:wink: the most important thing in any ANY hunt is a clean ethical kill and nosler partitions get this done period. so in all the hundred...... and hundreds...... of hunts that you are in on every year, you have NEVER seen an animal knocked down with a nosler partition?????and the same for your professional guide friends who guide 567 + days a year? they have never seen an animal knocked down with a nosler partion? i have to call B.S. on this one......:lol:

Hank Hunter

08-26-2006, 10:44 PM

I think someones been drinking too much or maybe just likes to start an argument. Obviously common sense is not an issue here

kutenay

08-26-2006, 11:21 PM

Yeah, that is my impression, too.

willyqbc

08-27-2006, 09:18 AM

well I gotta say I'm with the "like them" crowd. An example from my own experience..... I was huntng moose one and we found one so my buddy hits him with a broadsider (don't recall what he was using) The bull was heading for a ridge we didn't want him to go over and down so I threw a follow up at him as he was trotting very slightly angled (almost straight away). The intent was to hit him at the base of the neck but I was a tad low and hit him in the spine. The 150 grn partition traveled through (and destroyed) a full 12" of spine and was recovered from under the hide on the opposite side. Yes the "petals" were missing but what would you expect from passing through that much bone? I still have that bullet and just went and weighed it out to 113grns with a nice mushroom minus the petals. Now i would have to say that roughly 75% retention on a hit like that is pretty impressive. I would also have to agree with many above that if your freinds and co-workers have a problem with the NP's they are either confusing it with another bullet or are sadly misinformed. Just out of curiosity what are all these guides and outfitters you speak of reccomending to their clients if the NP's are not allowed in their camps?

Just my opinion
Chris

todbartell

08-27-2006, 10:10 AM

Ive only shot a few head of game with the Nosler Partition (6.5mm 140 gr, 7mm 160 gr), but my experiences have been nothing but excellent.

Partitions are designed to expand down to the partition, then plow through with the remaining shank. Their wound channels are usually not as big on the exit side of the animal, as they have a smaller frontal area when expanded than other bullets.

To say the Sierra Gameking is a better game bullet, especially for elk, moose, bison, and bear, than a Nosler Partition, is probably the funniest thing Ive read on this forum in a while...:mrgreen:

416

08-27-2006, 10:23 AM

Like I said if you like your NPs then all the power to you; an opinion was asked and I gave mine. If you disagree that's fine, you're entitled.

l agree 100% with you about your right to your opinion. Personally l have never had any problems with NP's and think they are good bullet, but that doesn't mean others haven't had issues with them. I think any bullet a person cares to mention has good and not so good stories to go with them.....

Will

08-27-2006, 10:39 AM

I have several friends who hunt or guide 300+ days per year. They're in on more kills in one season than 99% of hunters are in a lifetime. They guide all over North America including governor tags for sheep and grizz in alaska. NONE OF THEM WILL HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH NPs. It's that simple.

GoatGuy,
Without a doubt you are CONFUSED..........

You are speaking about NOSLER BALLISTIC TIPS.....

The NOSLER PARTITION is a Much different beast.

Check with ALL of these "Friends" of yours and you will realize they are referring to the Ballistic tips NOT the Partition:rolleyes:
I can name a few Outfitters that do say NO Ballistic tip bullets but any Knowledgeable person that says a Partition is not a Good Hunting Bullet is a FOOL.

GoatGuy

08-28-2006, 05:36 PM

Hate to break it to you but I'm not confused and I wasn't drunk. :lol:

Like I said before if you guys like them and have had great results with them stick with it.

To offset all the whining I will also mention I have another buddy who I hunt with that has killed hundreds of critters with partitions and loves them. He's cut 14 of his own grizz tags and has never had a partition fail on him. After having a heated debate and watching some video tape from a Dall hunt - he now shoots barnes x.

I've shot 2 wt's and a mule with them out of a 7mm with lack luster results. First, none of the animals dropped which is a rarity with that caliber. The front end shrapnels and blows apart with the 'core' going out the other side. All the front end of the bullet did was leave a bunch of blood shot meat - the core left a tiny hole out the other side. With that kind of performance you'd be just as well off shooting a full metal jacket.

Also had a client punch a 180 grn NP out of a .300 through the top end of both front shoulders and out the other side --- leaving a tiny exit hole and blood shot and shrapnel on the entry. The animal died because the bullet hit vitals but it wasn't nearly as quick as it should have been and there is not way the bullet should have gone out the hide on the other side.

The only other bullet I've seen punch through both shoulders on a moose came out of a .338-378 and it just barely made it through leaving a huge hole in the moose - that thing didn't take a step.

Like I said before if you like 'em stick with 'em. You may go an entire lifetime w/o having a partition fail on you.

Most weekenders won't ever have a bullet fail on them. Course I'm not talking about a hunter who at best most is on a 5 kills/year, or a hunter who probably, over their lifetime, has killed 50-70 big game animals.

I'm talking about guys who are easily in on 5+ kills/month. I'm talking about guys who have lifetimes of experience behind them. These guys are pros - not weekend warriors.

I'm know there's lots of experience on this board and I'm not trying to detract from that BUT I also know that the people I've worked with and for have way more experience than 99.9% of all hunters.

I'm not interested in getting in a pissing match - I know quite a few guys who think np's are the greatest thing since sliced bread as do a bunch of you- that's fine. I'm simply relaying my experiences and experiences of others who are of the same opinion. Take it as an opinion.

For the name sayers you'll see a couple of my buddies and the outfitters I know on some of the hunting videos you find in stores.

Hank Hunter

08-28-2006, 05:40 PM

How rude of us 99.9% of hunters to doubt an ego tripping Bul******er, oops I mean real pro hunter like you

todbartell

08-28-2006, 07:35 PM

all bow down to the KING! 8)

seeing how we're on the subject of bullet performance, Id like to be enlightened by the king, on what has worked for him and his fellow pro hunters, so that us measly weekend warriors can be just like him! :)

Schmaus

08-28-2006, 08:23 PM

Ahhh man the most i've ever gotten was three kills in one month, guess i'm out. But wait if grouse count that would definately bring my number up alot http://bestsmileys.com/lol/5.gif

Will

08-28-2006, 08:43 PM

Oppinions and BS aside, If you put a nosler Partition where it belongs you will have a Dead animal...simple as that !
The "weekend" is coming so I've got to get ready:lol:

talver

08-28-2006, 09:07 PM

I'd hate to be the one that brings the bad news guys but like Will said now adays Any good bullet made by a reputable manufacturer WITH GOOD SHOT PLACEMENT WILL DO THE TRICK AS LONG AS IT IS A HUNTING BULLET AND NOT A MATCH GRADE BULLET. This thing on this bullet failed sounds alot like a bad shot placement. As for "Ive been on this many hunts and all these number COME ON GUYS LAST I CHECKED MOST OF US WERE ADULTS , AND NOT A BUNCH OF KIDS IN THE SECOND GRADE. On a side note Im trying the federal tsx and I still shoot NP but am finding getting them in factory ammo is getting harder for my caliber and its not because they fail

jessbennett

08-28-2006, 09:22 PM

im not worthy, as a weekend warrior i could never have that much b.s. come out of my mouth without choking to death..... hey you are the man cool guy.....

LeverActionJunkie

08-28-2006, 09:53 PM

What the hell is all this!?!?!? He said she said BS, they don't call Partitions "huntings only shure thing" for nothing. By the way my dad Killed grizzlies with his bare hands, and wrestled a wolverine in his tighty whities! Whatever.

one-shot-wonder

08-28-2006, 10:02 PM

Geez! Some days I wish I was a moderator on this forum. I wouldn't lock this thread, however I would put it on a "time out" so all you guys can untie your pantyhose and take a deep breath.:lol:

:idea: How about getting back to Vadim's original question.......the real debate is between Powerpoints and Partitions I guess.

LeverActionJunkie

08-28-2006, 10:05 PM

Good Call One Shot

Hank Hunter

08-29-2006, 07:53 AM

you are right one shot, I would have no hesitation hunting moose with the partition

todbartell

08-31-2006, 10:26 PM

hey GOatguy, you never got back to us weekend warriors as to which bullet is the best

:|

GoatGuy

09-01-2006, 03:25 AM

I've now said it two or three times, if the NP's work for you stick with them.

Never said I was the man.

Only said I've been in on quite a few kills; the people I've worked for/with have been in on even more. None of us have ever been impressed with the nosler partition.

I've also said that I have a buddy who has killed over a dozen grizz himself and easily well over a hundred big game animals with NP's without a hitch. However, after seeing a video of a hunt with NP's he's switched bullets for the just in case factor.

As for Firebird's comments I'd stick with the ballistic tips or even better, powerpoints - atleast you can expect less than stellar performance and you have a bullet that is very accurate. Hunters' confidence with less than ideal shots seems to increase when they have a so called 'great' bulllet and the result with NP's is less than adequate. For all you high and mighty types I know this shouldn't happen but it does and when a bad shot is made the NP's will fail you. For those poor shots you want a bullet that leaves all its energy in the animal and that knocks it down which will allow for a follow up shot. Again --- if you hunt enough a less than 100% shot will happen at some point regardless of who you are. Just hope you have a bullet that will put the hurt on the animal enough that you can put it down and follow up.

If you shoot an animal in the vitals with any bullet it will die (that includes small cal and I'm sure full metal jackets).

The 'they' people who call NP's the 'huntings only sure thing' are the same guys promoting wsm's and rssm's. Hopefully you don't get yourself all wrapped up in the hype. Remember firearm/ammuntion companies are out to make money. 100 FPS out of a new cal is a piss in the pot - what you want is a bullet that expends all its energy in the animal and expands well regardless of cal - not something that blows up on contact and goes flying out the other side.

The problem with NP's comes especially with bone and non-vital shots. Also animals hit in the vitals go way farther when shot with NPs than they do or should with most other bullets.

If you want to keep up the disscusion ask any of the Lancaster's (one name for you guys). I'm sure a couple of you hunt reg 5; stop in and ask them about NP's in November - you'll get an earfull. They all hunt/guide 300+ days/year. There's only two things they hate; one of them being NP's.

Like I said several times if you like the performance you're getting out of your NP's stick with them.

For me, I've seen them fail - - - - - they will never, ever be another place or time when it comes to guiding or hunting. They may not have failed for you yet but I believe it will happen it's just a matter of when.

Nobody wants to see any animal wounded/run too far or even get away with a solid hit. I know/have seen too many animals go too far after being shot with NP's.

As far as the bad shot placement I can assure you I know what a good shot looks like. If you want my resume and references I can send them your way!!!!!!

After all is said take it for what it is, an opinion.

I think I may even have a slug sitting around here somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up and take a picture for all you folks.

Hopefully that puts an end to all the comments from the NP fans.

Remember, I'm only stating an opinion - if your opinion is different then that's great, good on ya. I can only go by my experiences and that's what I'm doing.

Wildman

09-01-2006, 06:51 AM

How about the Federal Vital Shok Seirra Game King SPBT?

kutenay

09-01-2006, 07:12 AM

In my 42+ years of hunting, living and working in many of the most wild parts of B.C. and western Canada, I have also been in on a few big game kills, somwhere around 200, including Grizzlies. Many of my mentors, colleagues and friends have been professional wildlife bios., COs and so forth and several of them were/are very well-known with kill experiences in the thousands of Elk, Moose, Deer, Grizzlies, Black Bear and all of the other species. The vast majority of these people used and recommended Nosler Partitions as their preference and their reputation is worldwide, which, IMO, speaks for itself.

The last Grizzly that I was "in at the death of was killed with ONE SHOT with a .300 Win. Mag. loaded with a 180 NP and MOST of the Grizzlies I have seen killed were shot with NPs. I can and do use many different bullets in my 27 big game rifles, out of the more than 100 BGRs I have owned and loaded for since '64, however, when working alone, for months on end, in deep wilderness, on many occasions between 1965 and 1993, I carried .375 H&H rifles loaded with 300 gr. NPs as did and do many of my friends and colleagues.

I am a "weekend warrior" as I am now retired and very seldom kill anything, BY CHOICE, although I spend a lot of time in the bush, hiking, doing the ecological studies I enjoy and hunting. In my considerable experience, I have NEVER had or seen a failure with NPs and I HAVE dropped many animals instantly with HL shots while using them. I prefer NPs to TBBCs and also use SAFs; I intend to try TSXs soon.

My rifles shoot NPs very well and I have shattered shoulder bones with them on several animals as I have seen partners do. This is my opinion and based on the experiences outlined, I prefer a .338 Win.-250NP, a 9.3x62-286NP or the rimmed 9.3x74R version with the same bullet or my .375H&H-300NP to anything else for hunting big game or working in Grizzly country in B.C......seems a LOT of other experienced "dudes" agree.

Radar

09-01-2006, 07:35 AM

I don't have an opinion on this thread, but there has been some interesting reading. One thing that comes out is the years of experience in living in the bush along with hunting that is a resource to be tapped on this site.

Hank Hunter

09-01-2006, 08:31 AM

GOATGUY. you need to grow up. Are you incapable of posting without all your bs about your incredible experience that puts us "week-end warriors to shame". There is a wealth of knowledge on this site from Real Hunters who have done it all the hard way and dont feel the need to blow their own horn but just wish to share and help out others. Maybe you should start your own web site for all your elitist snob big name video stars.

todbartell

09-01-2006, 08:46 AM

Winchester PowerPoints, the answer! :lol:

kutenay

09-01-2006, 09:23 AM

I'm on my way out the door to hike in Lynn Canyon Headwaters, necessary for "old pharts' like me to try to keep fit enough for alpine hunting, but, I will just say that some of the most experienced and successful hunters I have known were NOT "pro" bushmen and WERE "weekend warriors" When I was growing up, in the '50s, in Nelson, many of those who shot the most game were guys who were mechanics, school teachers,business owners and even a Catholic priest, my cousin's bro.-in-law.

I have known real bushmen who shot all of their game with a very few guns and whatever ammo they could get, i.e., the late Billy Clarke of Howser, B.C. and others who were gunnuts, collectors, fine gunsmiths and owned much larger gun collections than I do, i.e., the late Russell Fletcher and the late Insp. Joe Gibeault. So, real skill, experience and the knowledge derived from it are to be found among a wide variety of people working/living in a wide variety of venues.

GG has his opinion, I have mine and other guys have theirs, if, we all agreed, this forum would bore the s**t out of me! I think that GG made a bit of an error in how he referred to WWs, but, WTF, this is all in fun anyway! I AM going to try TSX bullets tho' as several guys whose opinions I respect are just totally nuts about them and anything, even NPs, can be improved on.....EVEN BEER!!!!

GoatGuy

09-01-2006, 10:28 AM

GG has his opinion, I have mine and other guys have theirs, if, we all agreed, this forum would bore the s**t out of me! I think that GG made a bit of an error in how he referred to WWs, but, WTF, this is all in fun anyway! I AM going to try TSX bullets tho' as several guys whose opinions I respect are just totally nuts about them and anything, even NPs, can be improved on.....EVEN BEER!!!!
Yeah, you're probably right with WWs- I get frustrated when I hear 'the only way to do it from folks who have been in on 20, 30 or even 100 critters and figure they have the world by the tail. I'm learning everyday I'm in the bush and love hunting with the guys who hunt professionally - they're an absolute wealth of knowledge. Clearly the idea of a forum is to contribute one's experiences - it doesn't mean their way is the only way (myself included).

I've also hunted with BIO's and had this argument with most of them. It isn't a new one to me and I've got a fairly thick skin from listening to folks pound back. Heck, I'll be out with a bio at the end of the month and I'm sure we'll have a discussion about NP's. Folks who shoot NPs seem to take it way too personally.

MichelD

09-01-2006, 10:35 AM

The Winchester XP 150s are very acurate in my 270.

Only shot one deer with the bullet though.

I'm sure they'd anchor a moose.

Schmaus

09-01-2006, 12:00 PM

.....EVEN BEER!!!!

Come on now Kutenay, those are fighting words.http://bestsmileys.com/lol/3.gif

youngbuck

09-01-2006, 02:02 PM

Interesting thread...
i cannot comment on NP as I have not loaded into the over 1000 minus 995 guns that I have. I've only heard that they tend to be less accurate then somwe of the other bullets. I see that alot of you think differently.

As for ballistic tips, I've seen and heard nothing but bad things about them. I've een them punch through a WT as weel as a bear with little or no expansion. These may be better paper cutters than hunting bullets

I'm surprised the GoatGuy hasn't thrown more great hunter names out there like Shockey et al. We don't really give a Sh$T who you know. One's own eperience is KING and learning from those experience/mistakes teaches us best.

I do have one question though:

What is your opinion between boattail and flat base? I've had some hunters critize BT for their lack of expansion and other love them because they are more accurate.

What's you take?

todbartell

09-01-2006, 05:24 PM

for the most part, boat tails are known FOR their easy expansion, sometimes a bad thing. limits penetration and no good for bigger critters

nosler solid base, sierra gameking, hornady btsp, speer etc, nosler ballistic tips and hornady sst as well

one-shot-wonder

09-01-2006, 05:41 PM

Interesting thread...
i cannot comment on NP as I have not loaded into the over 1000 minus 995 guns that I have. I've only heard that they tend to be less accurate then somwe of the other bullets. I see that alot of you think differently.

As for ballistic tips, I've seen and heard nothing but bad things about them. I've een them punch through a WT as weel as a bear with little or no expansion. These may be better paper cutters than hunting bullets

I personally don't and won't shoot NP's; however 2 of my reloading/shooting buddies have loaded them in the past which seemed to be very accurate, they have given way to the new TSX bullets everyone is hot and bothered over.

BTips are crap:mad: , I hunted with them one season only to be cutting out blodd shot meat from shrapnel. THey do fly very well but I leave them to the paper shooters now.
Get yourself a bonded bullet either the Nosler Accubonds or the Hornady Interbonds both are a great bullet for penetration and expansion. Both bullets possess high ballistic coefficients and hold together very well.
I don't shoot a 270 but my 300 sure liokes them and my butchering is alot cleaner and more pleasant now that I am shooting a bonded bullet.

youngfellla

09-02-2006, 10:31 AM

Goatguy, you proved your ignorance by stating that you would use a Ballistic Tip over a Partition. That's just goofy... unless you prefer to have minimal penetration and like it when the bullet fragments.

And just because Stan Lancaster says it is so, doesn't mean it is so. I've heard him and Bart go off about how Noslers are just paper-punchers. They've been in the business for a lot of years and probably forgot more than I know, but neither one seems to have an understanding about bullet construction, and neither have ever handloaded. From what I gathered, they had some bad experiences with Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets, and assumed from that that all Noslers are junk. I asked Bart what he thought about the Accubonds, he said they were junk because they were Noslers, but he had no idea what a bonded core bullet was.:roll:

There is a reason Nosler Partitions have such a strong following, and it is because THEY WORK!

todbartell

09-02-2006, 10:48 AM

Easy now youngfella! back down, and get out hunting, IT IS THE WEEKEND! :lol:

GoatGuy

09-02-2006, 12:39 PM

Goatguy, you proved your ignorance by stating that you would use a Ballistic Tip over a Partition. That's just goofy... unless you prefer to have minimal penetration and like it when the bullet fragments.

I'm not into teaching english (you obviously understood part of it) - here's what I wrote:
stick with the ballistic tips or even better, powerpoints - atleast you can expect less than stellar performance. The idea is that hunters will make sure they double lung instead of trying less than ideal shots, like those that are prevelant with bonded bullets and the NP fans. Hope that clarifies things.

And just because Stan Lancaster says it is so, doesn't mean it is so. I've heard him and Bart go off about how Noslers are just paper-punchers.
They've been in the business for a lot of years and probably forgot more than I know, but neither one seems to have an understanding about bullet construction, and neither have ever handloaded.

They aren't the only outfitters who feel that way. I know a couple other outfitters and guides who feel the same way and I've heard through buddies that guide of other outfitters. These aren't 'camp manager' outfitters - they're guys who hunt; sounds like you've been around the industry long enough to know the difference.

As far as paper punchers go, that's funny. Seems that hunters/clients experience grows exponentially with the amount of paper they kill or per animal. I could swear some of these guys who have killed 20 or 30 animals have memorized a ballistics chart, read a couple of articles and now know everything there is to know about hunting.

There is a reason Nosler Partitions have such a strong following, and it is because THEY WORK!

Glad you feel that way. I've used them and seen them fail. It'll happen, I just hope you can recover the animal when things go sideways.

todbartell

09-02-2006, 12:51 PM

so what exactly happened on that "sheep video" where a Partition turned a guy off of them and onto a Barnes X, if you dont mind this Weekend Warrior asking

Gateholio

09-02-2006, 03:09 PM

I

Glad you feel that way. I've used them and seen them fail. It'll happen, I just hope you can recover the animal when things go sideways.

Explian the failure you witnessed, (including cartridge, distance, velocities etc) please.

Will

09-02-2006, 04:18 PM

If you shoot an animal with a Partition and the said animal fails to die then I don't care if you shot it with a Bolt of lightning from your A$$.......... that animal was hit poorly.
No Bullet can purely be to blame when an animal does not expire. I don't give a CRAP how many animals some Guide seen shot ! Blah, Blah, Blah........The Fact remains that the Vast majority of Game animals in BC are shot by Average Joes ( your "Weekend warriors" ) that bought the cheapest ammo they could find at the local Crappy tire. This is unlikely to change anytime soon.

Shit happens.......do Partitions shed some jacket frags from the nose ? Yes, every lead core bullet will occasionally shed some frags....even the Bonded variety. Weigh them if recovered, they always weigh less...that means they shed something....

I've recovered a Partition that the entire nose came apart when going through both shoulders of a Black Bear......however the "rear" shank still drove through. Bullet failure ? depends on your definition but I can tell you that Bear took two steps and fell over dead so I'd say the bullet worked just as could be expected after breaking both shoulders.

This is the concept of the Partition, a rapidly expanding front section to deliver shock and a large wound channel while retaining the rear portion to penetrate. They do work and work well.

Even the Barnes X style bullets have been known (RARELY) to drop a pedal or two when smashing through tough bone.........failure ? Hardly. The rear section continues to plow through as it is meant to.
(note: the TSX is reported to be a huge improvement on the original X as far as shed pedals go) I have used the original X bullets on game and had great results with them......I have not tried the new TSX yet as Partions work for me..and always have. The original Barnes X were "finicky" and I could never get them to group as well as "standard" lead core bullets, so I eventually went back to what worked for me. Again the new TSX is reported to be a far easier bullet to get shooting well then the original X.

I did lose faith in the Hornady A max after witnessing some disastrous results on a large Moose by an aquaintance. He was shooting a 300 Ultra. We deduced the bullets simply exploded on the surface and left large craters in the flesh with Nothing substantial reaching the vitals..the Moose was eventually recovered but it wasn't pretty. I've heard similar results from the Ballistic tips when pushed fast and shots are close. Many use them with great results on deer and smaller critters though where penetration isn't as much of an issue and the explosive effects of a Ballistic tip in the chest cavity does provide impressive results.

For me the Partition has worked... and worked well in various Calibres from 7mm up to the 458.
I will let you all know how the Partition works in 6.5mm this Fall too.
I suspect it will Perform just the same 8-)

GoatGuy,
While you seem to give alot of "weight" to the oppinions of these "Professional" hunters and thier Negative view on certain bullets.
I can assure you that for every single "Professional" you can find that dislikes the Partition there will be 20 more that recommend them...I guess the weekend warriors know it all afterall :lol: :lol: :lol:

TOP_PREDATOR

09-02-2006, 05:54 PM

Partitions are working down here too.

B.Ts do have their place,at slower speeds and smaller animals.

GoatGuy

09-02-2006, 06:48 PM

Explian the failure you witnessed, (including cartridge, distance, velocities etc) please.
Gate, I'll fill you in the next time I run into you. (might even have evidence if I can find it in storage)

In closing, my opinion and experience with NPs were in place well before I knew any of these outfitters/guides - just happens many are of the same opinion and have had similar experiences. I'm also not saying they'll fail everytime, or even often, but if you harvest enough (key words - paper doesn't count) it'll happen.

I guess it's just like bushnell/bush and lomb; I've had/seen more trouble with their crap then I care to remember yet you'll find 99 out of 100 who say they make good stuff. Everybody's entitled to their opinion.

Looking back through this thread its been comical, but my head is getting sore- - that's one hard wall; from now on I'll leave bullet threads to the guys/gals with the 'experience'. Trees beware.

Will

09-02-2006, 10:03 PM

I'm also not saying they'll fail everytime, or even often, but if you harvest enough (key words - paper doesn't count) it'll happen.
Yes there are certainly some Strong supporters for the Partition:lol:

However your statement above holds true for ANY bullet.

That's why it's called hunting and not Killing:wink:

Funny things happen to a bullet when it hits flesh and bone...choosing a "Premium" bullet helps to maintain the "funny things" to a minimum and give the Hunter more consistent results.

There are some Great Bullets available to the Modern Rifle Hunter.....the Partition has been and still is one of them IMO8-)
I also vote this as the most Hijacked thread of all time:lol:

Half Slam

09-03-2006, 06:01 PM

Here is a piture of a 180 grain partition shot out of my 300 rum at 3450 fps that went through both shoulders of a huge bull buffalo from up north and was recovered on the hide on the off side. I did not shoot the buffalo, my buddy borrowed my gun and went. I reload my own bullets and I can say that there not the most accurate in my rum but I sure like what there doing.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/monstermuley/Partitiongold4.jpg

Half Slam

09-03-2006, 06:07 PM

Here is another pic of the bullet
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/monstermuley/Partitiongold3.jpg

Gateholio

09-03-2006, 11:24 PM

If you disagree with Goat Guys opinion on Partions, that is fine, please tel us why you disagree. Personal insults are not going to fly, though, so I'll just keep deeting those...

Myself? I've killed about 20 animals with Partitions, and they always seem to perform as advertised. Nose opens fast, liek any soft point, and leaves some nice wreckage in the vitals. Tai end continues to penetrate, leaving a long wound channel, that often exits.

I'm not a believer of "bullet under the far skin, using up all the bullets energy in the animal" doctrine. I liek to see a nice big wound channel, that penetrates both sides of the animal. I find animals that get a tubular woudl channel through thier vitals and an exit to go down fast. Which is why I now use TSX bgulets.8-)

I do know one hunter, that is quite well heeled. He has hunted the last 30 or so years al over the world, with thousands (and I mean THOUSANDS) of big game kills. He almost aways uses a 300WM and 180gr NP's.

He submits that the TSX may or may not be better, but doesn't care, since NO's have worked for him forever.8)

I have personally never seena NP *fail* in that it failed to do what ir was designed to do- Open fast, rear shank continue to penetrate. That's what they are designed to do If you want different [performance, look to another bulet.8)

I have yet to see a NP lose it's rear core on game, but I think i saw one years gao ont hte internet..

Hank Hunter

09-04-2006, 07:11 AM

Sorry gatehouse, got a little carried away. Really enjoy this site and have learned from it and when someone puts everyone down as WWs whose opinions dont count, well you know!!!

kutenay

09-04-2006, 07:56 AM

I think that Hank has a point here as Goat came on pretty strongly about the experience level/knowledge of the rest of us; I kinda tried to defuse that a bit in my last post, but, this approach can be annoying. I heartily agree that personal insults should not be allowed on this forum as they have ruined the camaraderie of other boards; however, my impression is that GG was trying to give an honest opinion, not really insult anyone.

If, a great many hunters, worldwide, use ANY product over decades and find that product VERY satisfactory, this should, IMO, be an endorsement of that product. Goat mentioned that one of the guides whom worked for Barry Thompkins told him that BT won't have NPs in his camps, well, my experience with BT was different. The Grizzly I referred to WAS SHOT out of Lower Prairie with the NP in the .300 Mag.

Many of the keenest guides I have met all over B.C. and in Alberta were quite young and actually had little gun knowledge or had killed much game. I actually had to, lend one of my .338s loaded with a 250 NP to Corey at LP as his Win. .308 was in some other camp and he had to go pack out a client's meat....he was dammed glad to use this rifle and offered to buy it which is not possible.

Among the older guides I have known, the topic of bullets was less an issue than how pisspoor shots many clients were and how out of shape so many older guys were. Frankly, these are the two WORST problems ANY hunter faces, especially in our tough B.C. conditions.

I like this forum and there is not one person here that I would not be pleased to have as a guest in my home or meet over a campfire. I am glad that the tone here is so decent and people respect each other. We all get ornery once in awhile, but, it seems guys here are big enough men to apologize if that happens. Of course, I don't know about that Gates character, though, I STILL think he had "designs" on that mare...........